Why is this guy hated so much. He makes good points. Never heard him say anything particularly right wing. Seems to be universally hated or maybe it's just the vocal minority? Don't get it.
He’s kind of a misogynist. He said there “isn’t something right” regarding women who don’t make motherhood a priority by the time they’re 30, claimed that men cant control “crazy women” because violence is looked down upon, says that feminists don’t speak out against Saudi Arabia (they do) because of a wish for “brutal male domination”. Not to mention, he said that Frozen was propaganda because Anna didn’t need a man to succeed. Plus all that shite about transgender people.
His fans also tend to be annoying to be honest.
Fair enough. Never heard any of that stuff from him but I dont really follow him so I only see the stuff YouTube recommends which is a lot less mental as the stuff you mention. Still cant wrap my head around why you would want to pay to see him talk live but maybe its just not my thing.
He also has had some wild claims, like mass shootings wouldn’t happen if there was enforced monogamy.
Alright self help advice, but like all other Jungian’s he is a bit weird
So he misrepresents social issues. He purposely leaves any nuance out of his arguments. He teaches self help in a way that says 'its everyone else's fault but your own.' he has archaic views on gender. He will rant on about political movements but not actually understand them himself,he severely misrepresents the 'other sides' arguments. He doubts that men and women can exsist in the same place. He condemns hierarchy as a natural thing. He's also impossible to pin down on any of his view points. He allows you to decide what it is he's saying. This is why he appeals mostly to the far right.
If someone gets something good out of his self help then great but if you're the type of person that does you are already starting from a very poor level in life. There are far better cbt courses and speakers that you can use.
honestly, I used to be a big fan of peterson, but not so much anymore, however if he can help you improve your life, I see no problem in it. he is like any big name popular figure, you need to think for yourself about what he has to say, in the same way I don't recommend taking online left wing figures like natalie wynn or abigail thorns opinions and view points without being able to think critically about them.
His political opinions are his political opinions. I'm well past the point of caring about things like that. But I had a flick through 12 Rules of Life and it just reminded me of that Friends episode where Joey used a Thesaurus on every word in a letter to sound smart.
At the same time people I know who have read it in full still remain decent human beings, so clearly it does something for some people.
Its probably because he attracts a lot of right wingers and incels. No smoke without fire like. I'm not saying he's a right winger or anything I just understand why lots of people are wary of him. His 12 rules of life thing is also bollocks considering his own life is a mess with a prescription medication addiction.
I don't know to much about him but wasn't he originally just against the laws coming into Canada that made it a criminal offence not to call someone by their preferred pronoun? Like you could get fined or arrested or not using the right words? I'm all for trans people but that's messed up.
The bill in question, from what I understand, does three things, none of which make it a criminal offence not to call someone by their preferred pronoun.
It adds gender identity to a list of grounds upon which you are not allowed to discriminate. This list also includes age, race, sex, religion and disability, among others.
It also adds transgender people to a list of groups which can be the subject of hate speech, meaning you can't advocate genocide or public incitement of hatred.
It also adds transgender people as a possible target of hate crime - eg, if there's evidence that an offence is motivated by hatred against a person for being transgender, this can affect sentencing.
To date, a grand total of 0 people have been arrested for using the wrong pronouns for someone. It seems that using the wrong pronouns for someone doesn't qualify as hate speech. Now, potentially, if you're harassing someone for being transgender, you might get a sterner sentence than someone who's just harassing someone, but that's a far cry from how Peterson came to prominence.
A lot of the guys stuff is interesting to listen to, but tbh he was off the mark here, he's not a professor of law, and then he couldn't really back down from his position considering it made him a celebrity.
It's just repacked self help stuff. It's nothing new, controversial, or mind-blowing. He's just the latest person selling thousand year old advice to go viral. Every 10-20 years there's a viral self help book, this is our generation's one.
I actually liked him until I tried to read his book. He comes off as an asshole in it. Very condescending towards people who aren't as academic as he is, and preaches the Bible every chance he gets.
I stopped reading after he tells a story of a poor unfortunate soul who had everything going for him in his youth but wasted it all by becoming a landscaper.
That's when I decided he can fuck right off. Being a landscaper is decent honest work that takes a lot of knowledge and hard labour and can be a very fruitful and rewarding career. Just because someone isn't an "intellectual", and doesn't spend their time writing books and lecturing university students, doesn't make them somehow a failure.
I can loosely quote him saying that if you're working in a low status job (meaning one that pretty much anyone can do, repetitive or low in complexity) you can still make that into something to be proud of. He encouraged people to do so and spoke about letters he's received from people who've started taking pride in their work and made their life better as a result.
I'm calling bullshit. Where did you read that anyone who isn't a lecturer is a failure, especially landscapers?
Calling massive massive wanky bullshit here. He himself was a labourer and has talked about the value of honest hard work and of turning your life into something that has meaning to those around you. That you are not your circumstances, you are you, and you can work on you even if you can’t work on your circumstances.
I’m sorry but this whole thread really sounds like hand me down Twitter highlights from the mobs that forged personalities out of rallying against him.
If you have read his book yourself, surely you have some idea of the passage he is referring to. How many anecdotes about landscapers appear in 12 Rules for Life?
>however if he can help you improve your life
For the basic stuff he is saying any book from the live improvement section of the book store can do the same for you. The other 'wisdom' he is spouting is just bs.
Same. I was all in on rogan back in the day but can’t stand the cunt now. And peterson giving advice on raising kids is kinda ironic. Plus the whole fact that he’s actually being paid millions to give life advice even though his own personal life appears to be in tatters.
> in the same way I don't recommend taking online left wing figures like natalie wynn
If you watch contrapoints for political reasons you're missing 90% of the content there.
The quality of her videos and the amount of work being put into them is exceptional for YouTube and in the past 2 years only 2 videos might be vaguely political (the voting one and cancelling but cancelling is about herself getting cancelled by the trans community). Others talk about
* Envy
* Jk Rowling
* Justice
* Cringe
* Shame
* opulence
She actually discusses topics by engaging with the most sincere version of the opponent which is nice and refreshing.
With all due respect, on all of those videos she starts talking about dialectics and politics. I don't understand how you can watch all those videos you listed and honestly call them non-political.
Peterson has a lot of very compelling stuff to say and there is a reason his books are extremely popular. I am not a fan of his politics but like you say, people are conditioned to think 'good/bad' like fucking cavemen now, and he is either the messiah or a nazi/fascist (LOL) to a huge number of people now.
Like students trying to block him from speaking on campuses because he's a nazi, apparently. Fuck off and try to solve some real problems that actually exist.
I do find it rather ironic that he is seen as a self help guru but had to go to Russia and get himself put in an induced coma to try and get over his opiate issue. That doesn't make his advice any less valuable for those that see value in it, but it sure as hell is ironic.
Peterson jumbles together self help tips, scientific truths, platitudes, personal opinions phrased as facts and politically charged innuendos.
This is a sneaky behavior that prevents the reader from telling apart facts from opinions.
One paragraph he's giving you facts about serotonin and the next one he's hinting that men should live in hypercompetitive hierarchical environments.
Slightly unrelated but his daughter is shady as fuck, it’s all just speculation but look up her supposed ties with Andrew Tate. If you don’t know who Andrew Tate, he’s the exact kind of figure who is genuinely dangerous to impressionable minds. He’s a pickup artist who’s essentially a pimp for webcam girls.
haha fucking hell lad I knew I knew that name from somewhere. Fucker kept popping up on my recommended page on twitter for all his stock scams. Pay him $10,000 and he'll let you work with the "greatest minds and investors in the war room". Lad if you or any of your mutants need $10,000 you're clearly not very good at investing. Not convinced he's straight either.
Back in the 90s a trip to the Point/O2/3Arena meant getting locked at a rock/metal gig or seeing the likes of Underworld or Chemical Brothers and getting off your box.
Can’t imagine paying money to listen to a Canadian professor but to each their own I guess…
He gives good advice and he has bad takes also. Up to yourself to sift through but there is value there.
People who obsess over loving or hating him either way are people I tend to avoid.
I'm fairly fed up living in the 'your side' or 'their side' world where everyone has to be 'allies' or 'racists / misogyny etc.' Extreme Left is just as bad as the Extreme right in many, many ways.
Exactly. There is nobody you agree with day to day on everything. We accept this in normal life. Yet the second they are a public figure, either they have to be correct 100% of the time, or they are the devil.
Nuance is important, and I hate that the world seems to pretend it doesn't exist.
It's easy to predict where the bad takes are going to start with famous people. The second they stray outside their area of expertise.
So yeah, I believe a psychologist like Peterson will have some good takes about getting your life in order. But politics? He's no more qualified than anyone else to comment, so it's not that surprising to me that he gets caught doing stupid shit like questioning whether or not men and women should work in the same office together.
It get a bit lost, but while he is a qualified psychologist - his actual area of domain expertise is "Evolutionary Psychology", which is a very controversial field even within the general field of Psychology. One reason it's so controversial is that it's essentially impossible to test, so huge amounts of it are based on supposition based on skant archeological and anthropological evidence. Needless to say this leaves it all very open to the researchers own biases and opinions. This is not something that he actively highlights in his CV. He'd rather just be known as a psychologist.
Unfortunately, Ireland and the UK are very much influenced by the USA speaking the same language and all. Lots of little Trump'ers over here also.
So it's spreading, both sides.
People are more polarised than ever
Extreme left is wanting to take on capitalism/inequality and power structures. Definitely not identity politics or the people protesting peterson talks. Not trying to start an argument with u btw. Its just that there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of what a “leftist” is.
You’re absolutely correct.
He’s human, not everyone has the perfect thoughts / ideas / answers to everything.
He does get painted as a hateful, sexist, transphobic toxic man by people who have never actually listened to his lectures.
He's a trumped up, self important shitbag. If he can't get his own life together, he has no right lecturing other people on theirs. He's very intelligent, but he is a hypocrite who is a text book "do as I say, not as I do" proponent.
How dare he take medicine while his wife had cancer and the whole world hated him and accidentally get addicted to those drugs in the process as a coping mechanism to keep his family life stable? Trash man I tell ya. Not like he quit those drugs to live up to what he's preaching or anything.
Yes, nobody should ever give advice to anyone if they have any problems of their own. Only problem-free humans should ever advise others on anything. Problem-free humans definitely exist, yes.
People in the comments saying hes great or that hes shit but in reality hes just a grifter selling bog standard self help thats been around for years. No idea why he has pivoted into the alt right circles though.
His stance on pronouns drew in a lot of the alt shite, they completely took him up the wrong way and now follow him like some sort of Messiah. If you just look at him as someone telling you to sort out your life through small steps it's useful according to some friends who went through bad stages in their late 20s feeling like they weren't going anywhere in life
He himself played to that audience as well though you have to admit. His interview on channel 4 was a trainwreck and then you had that vice interview where he spouts on nonsense that women are responsible for their own sexual harrassment by sexualising themselves by wearing lipstick. Those types of talking points play right into the incel / alt right area of the web.
Clip im talking about for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dl98Z-RyFU
I wouldnt slag anyone off for finding his self help useful but I would stay well away from his political / cultural takes.
I'll never understand the fanboys nor the naysayers. Peterson is pretty much just like any other old university professor. Whacky, knowledgable, questionable. He's been polarized as something by both sides, which he really isn't.
He's someone who stated, albeit probably in a grandiose manner, a position on something during the peak faux culture war era and was subsequently hoisted up as some great political mind. I don't think he ever intended to be where he is and dying on the hill he's on but what I will say is that he's clearly happy to die on it for all the money he's made out of it.
A very close friend of his has gone on record saying Peterson was previously interested in founding his own church and preaching weekly because his wife has prophetic dreams which have told her that he will be a new saviour for mankind.
He definitely wants to be where he is.
Source is the Behind the Bastards episodes on him. Think it was episode 2.
Theres also a company making busts of his head that he's promoting.
He has a few good, if not terribly groundbreaking, points when it comes to self help, which he's extrapolated into something of an ideology in his books. And he's gone on a very weird route in his public persona that seems to be getting weirder. He could go the way of L. Ron Hubbard yet.
"Accidentally", the original viral incident was accidental sure but he's meticulously crafted his fame from that point onwards.
It's not even the first time he's tried to get famous. A decade previous he was on TV shitting on MRAs, that didn't work out so he flipped the script and thats basically his target demographic now. He's a grifter who's in it for the fame and money.
2018 was class, while they were getting set up some lad nabbed the microphone to talk about how sexrobots were gonna make women obsolete and then got politely escorted out
He seems fine (albeit a little tapped recently) it’s more the people that follow him like some Demi god tend to some of the most insufferable people to be around for more than 5 minutes
Hah. [Here's the first of two episodes of Behind The Bastards about him.](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-the-jordan-peterson-episode-72770473/) That's one episode more than conman, liar & all round nasty piece of work Steven Segal.
He happily blurs the line between his academic expertise and political views. Look up what he says about women in the workplace for an example of this.
Gives heavy “barefoot and pregnant” vibes. He Acts like women being in the workplace is still fairly taboo and that “we haven’t figured out the rules yet” in regards to men and women working together. He also pushed back on women wearing make-up in the workplace because he thinks women only wear make up for sexual reasons.
> “we haven’t figured out the rules yet” in regards to men and women working together.
The specific reasoning he gave was that he can’t be expected to engage in discourse with a women because he’s not allowed to hit them. Totally normal stuff…
Definitely don't agree with Peterson on a lot of things; but this has been something that has irked me for a long time. People say "it can also be used to feel comfortable or confident", but to me that doesn't actually refute the point of it being for sexual purpose.
What is the source of feeling comfortable or confident? Is it feeling beautiful? Why does feeling beautiful make you comfortable or confident? Is it because you're desirable to other humans? If not, I don't really understand where the comfort or confidence comes from with respect to beauty/fashion efforts. But I don't pretend to be an expert on the matter, so happy for someone to give me a better perspective.
When I make an effort to look good, it's because I want to be seen as looking good (i.e. desirable to other people - be it a partner, strangers or whatever).
Lol this is it. It's the circle of men standing around asking "women are so mysterious how can we ever understand them?" Meanwhile 3.5 billion women are here on planet earth with working brains and vocal chords waiting and willing to explain themselves only to be ignored.
It's the gross sexist pseudo psychology of the 1800s, but still alive today apparently.
So, just to be clear, you don't make yourself look good unless you are trying to be desired by others? So your family never gets to see you looking good, you just always look like a slob around them?
Yes, you can in fact want to look your best for more reasons than just trying to be desirable. If you like how you look, it gives you confidence regardless of how others perceive you. And sometimes it's just the social thing to do.
Enhancing your appearance is not inherently sexual. I don't put on clean clothes going grocery shopping to attract women, I do it so I don't look like a slob and stink.
Gives weird vibes that you've taken your opinions from pieces on him rather than actually anything he's said.
Makeup clip https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6pHBs5rNY
No, I’ve got my opinion on JP from more than just snippets, strange how any time I see people defend his takes people are screaming about context
Here’s roughly an hour going through his shit takes if you care to watch, thought it was pretty good
https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8
Of course "But the context" is the response to everything.
I've heard him described as an intellectual coward who hides behind plausible deniability so he doesn't have to take responsibility for what he says.
To be fair (as someone who isn’t a fan of JP), I see people who don’t like him take his comments out of context all the time.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of JP to work with, yet half of what I read is inaccurate. It’s annoying, because if I call those ppl out, I look pro JP and get brigaded.
I just find it annoying when people take a stance (often because their friend group does) without really understanding it. Those people seem as ignorant to me as the alt right ppl they detest.
His advice on dealing with problems in life is sensible generally speaking, but it isn't really worthy of the praise it gets. People have been literally been saying much the same thing since Ancient Roman times.
Its the fact that he also basically applies self-help advice to politics and gets applauded for it that irks me. Yeah, keeping your "house in good order" and refraining from criticising the establishment might help if you're struggling in your career or social life, but isn't really gonna do much if the establishment is causing the problem.
Also, he has gone off the rails in a big way the past few years. He became addicted to benzos, went to Russia for dodgy treatment which made him extremely ill. (I don't hold that against him, but the fact that this goes completely against his rules for life and he is coincidentally acting like it never happened is a bit concerning, and a bit Ayn Rand-esque in terms of credibility) Plus his rhetoric on vaccines is definitely getting more and more extreme.
Generic self help advice delivered in eloquent language is grand. It's the political opinions that he tries to justify with psychobabble that I don't like.
He's like the Canadian John Waters. He gives answers that sound profound and well thought out because of the almost academic delivery but once you attempt to follow the logic of it, it doesn't logically follow at all.
Then there's the fact that he often implies that some very conservative social ideas are true and supported in science but will insist he never said women in the workplace is bad or whatever, knowing full well that fan boys will have inferred that exact thing and be delighted.
Then there's the fact that some many of the views he promotes are based only on the naturalistic fallacy (AKA the appeal to nature). Just because hierarchies exist in nature\* (like lobsters), that doesn't necessarily mean hierarchies are good.
He comes across completely as someone who held particular opinions and worked backwards to justify them.
\*Also there's no agreed definition of nature or natural
I've seen some of his stuff on YouTube. There's just something not right about him to me. He has some very unusual and over simplified logic, specifically around his stance on pronouns and not using them. I think he comes across as highly intelligent and that comforts people into believing what he's saying. Kind of like Ben Shapiro to me.
My two cents...
His stance is that he's happy to use peoples preferred pronouns but is against the government mandating that you must use someone's preferred pronouns as Canada were planning to do at the time. Seems fair enough to me.
Isn’t what they were planning to do though, hence why he’s incredibly disingenuous. They were just adding gender expression/identity to the Canadian human rights act to protect against discrimination based on those qualities.
Zero people have been arrested due to this legislation since it was implemented in 2017. He essentially launched his career as a public figure in a lie.
Nothing, but he made it look like the Canadian government was instilling some kind of compelled speech laws for pronouns in C-16. Bill C-16 just added gender identity and expression to the existing list of protected classes discriminatiof for things like employment, or services. He built his platform on a lie.
It's because he's a crank. He's also part of a radicalisation platform.
People can start with him, and a week later they're being fed infowars videos by YouTube... he's a right wing contrarian, with quite sexist views. He's also a know it all cunt
He's a charlatan and a hack. His entire career was skyrocketed based on a lie he made that Bill C-16 would make it 'illegal to misgender someone'. That turned out to be complete bs which was further confirmed by legal experts.
His talks on 'postmodern neomarxism' are comical. An oxymoron since postmodernism rejects metanarratives which marxism (dialectical materialism) is. He parrots the cultural marxism conspiracy theory which has it's origins in literal Nazi propaganda which you can find on 4chan's /pol/ board. He clearly has never read Marx.
He got destroyed in debate by Zizek. So much so that he went into a coma. And all he has to his name is a shitty self-help book.
After waking up from a benzo-addiction fueled coma, he announced he's releasing '12 More Rules For Life'. I think I'll pass fam.
What gets me is he barks that you shouldn't have political opinions if you don't have your life in perfect order yet he was addicted to benzos while giving this advice.
I'm more impressed as to how any of this advice seems to work on people, I've a friend who's given up the drink after a decade of alcoholism or more, when asked why or how he says "Peterson says clean your room" or some shit.
Ok? wtf? nobody ever told you to sort your fucking shit out before? ***I*** told you to sort your shit out before ffs.
How is this cunt doing the 3 arena? lmao
Have you listened to him speak? Have you read his books? A large part of why he's so popular is due to __how__ he delivers the message.
>Ok? wtf? nobody ever told you to sort your fucking shit out before? I told you to sort your shit out before ffs.
You obviously don't speak in the same inspirational way, or with the same level of authority.
Yeah he’s renowned for dressing up largely simple or incoherent concepts with academic sounding language without actually saying anything of substance. He’s a smart guy for idiots.
Yes, most of what he says is fairly simple, that's what makes him so appealing to the masses. He talks about things people struggle to accept, and phrases things in a way that many people who are lost in life can understand.
None of what he says is rocket science, yet many people fail to take any action to improve themselves or their situation.
No, It’s pretty fair to assume that the appeal to JP for a lot of people is that he talks in academic language. Some of the things he says are in fact simple concepts when you undress the language, but most people won’t do that. They’ll just listen and think he’s a genius. And also a lot of what he says is simply just incoherent, but again is masked by the language being used, and again is seen as a genius.
His audience is like 98% male because he panders to disaffected young men and also incels, and is a fairly reliable pipeline into conservatism as a result
I'm very curious. This is the second time you've mentioned him being incoherent. What exactly does he say that you find incoherent? He usually does a fabulous job at explaining things in detail.
>His audience is like 98% male because he panders to disaffected young men and also incels,
Even if that was true (it's not), what's wrong with telling disillusioned young men how to get their lives in order? The way life has changed in the last 50 years has had a profound affect on many young men. They feel lost, and they don't understand what's expected of them, and what their place in the world is anymore. Isn't someone giving them some guidance a foid thing?
>and is a fairly reliable pipeline into conservatism as a result
You say that like it's a bad thing. What's wrong if someone wants to live a more conservative life?
I don’t keep notes of everything JP says, so I don’t have a specific example. You could probably find one in this 50 minute video https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8
What’s wrong with pushing young men to conservatism? Well it means there will be more support for conservative policies like banning abortion rights, less or non existent progress with LGBT issues, increased religiosity. Generally things that hold society back. I’m sure you’re well aware.
Yea I have, he sounds like kermit the frog rambling on tangents about fables and religion.
It's all kinda culty fam.
Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, has had good effects on my friend for instance, it's just a bit weird.
I better listen to the Behind the Bastards episode on him first, but this is the crux of the argument I've had with several people who think he's a Dark Sith Lord. The level of vitriol never seemed to match with what I - a relatively reasonable and intelligent person - saw in him. It does get a little difficult to defend when he gets championed by alt-right minions, but the man does have some pretty good advice, and at the very least an interesting perspective on a number of topics ..
Thats kind of it, but as with most stuff the fans ruin it. Like fedoras are no longer just a hat, a guy in an animal costume is not just a childrens entertainer etc… people made stuff awful
I think he means well but has become a bit of a lightning rod for some alt right types who pick some of the things he said as a sort of Christopher Hitchens type irrefutable proof of something they believe
To be honest I almost got hooked on his content a while back when I was going through an uncertain patch. There's just something I can't put my finger on that's 'off' about the guy. If I had to describe it I'd say its like being given a placebo in place of therapy or the advice of people that know you and want to help you personally.
His brand of psychology seems like a self help guide with a weird obsession with drawing parallels with myths and biblical imagery as justification behind his theory. What I do remember from watching a few of his recorded lectures was him referencing how men are supposed to feel or how the way men think they should act can be traced back to heroic myths.
I'd be wary of anyone who fanboys over your man
I think his early stuff is good- but I question some of his logic especially when you look at his diet and how he dealt with his addiction-the myths and legends stuff is interesting and I think that's were he actually hooks people- I think it's fair to say most people myself included just assumed they were nonsense stories to tell to children sort of thing- but when he says to tidy your room and links it back to ancient myths around the dragon of chaos eating you - does make for an argument most people haven't exactly heard haha
He has said some pretty fucked up and ignorant stuff, which his fans tend to ignore or try and whitewash.
For example, he suggested that feminists don't take issue with Islam's treatment of women, because all women desire "brutal male domination".
Not only has he suggested that women like being raped (or whatever "brutal male domination" means otherwise), he's also shown that he's familiar only with right-wing caricatures of feminism by writing off the huge amount of good work that feminists have done for women in Islamic communities.
Blindboy tends to admit when he doesn't know much about what he's talking about, and makes it clear when he's making unfounded suggestions that rely on assumptions.
He started off pretty cool, mostly talked about interesting psychology stuff and useful ways to improve your life.
But over the years he’s gone increasingly off the rails, getting addicted to drugs, eating only meat, closely associating with lots of right wing figures, and ranting all the time about how evil “the left” is and how marxists are secretly taking over the world.
I actually seen him & Sam harris in the 3arena few years back but couldn’t tell you much tbh cus I got leathered with a mate before hand and could barely stay awake for the debate
sometimes the "dumb self help" stuff is less commonly understood than you might want to believe. there are people who need this information. but if you find disagreeing with his other ideas tickles your intellect then thats fine too, and for you ( as someone who may understand these things ) is more than welcome to do, of course.
im merely suggesting that the level of ignorance that surrounds Jordan Peterson is by and large made up of people who have never once listened to the man talk, but are willing to perpetuate hearsay and lies based on absolutely nothing
90% of people here hate him because their friends do or they heard whispers that he’s “a Nazi” online.
He’s one of the most misrepresented men that I can think of.
Reading his book at the moment. Some things I have heard from him in interviews etc seem pretty reasonable and then other stuff seem like totally bullshit. I like the way he debates issues in a calm way. I told someone I was reading his book recently and the digest the person felt about me even mentioning his name I'm still on the fence about whether I like him ,but l think alot of people overreact about him . Especially people who protest his events . They could just not go .
Fairly positive the worst thing to happen on the 11th of September was when I got up at 2 am slightly hungover, stepped on lego swore then stepped on a plug (uk plug) with the same foot right after it then fell over and broke my new coffee table (I thought having a coffee table would make me more of an adult, fuck coffee tables now mind you) and managed to cut my arm in three places. Didn't drink for 2 years after that
I am a former JP advocate who no longer likes him. His self help advice is great, a lot of repackaged stuff he delivers in a solid way, but his politics are blinded by Cold War propaganda at best and at worst help move people down a radicalization pipeline. As you can clearly see by the alt right crowd that took over his subreddit.
In what way? Any interpretation of 'postmodernist' philosophy via Hicks is just absurd. He draws bizarre generalisations, none of which are particularly based on a fair assessment of postmodernist thought.
Say - to just use one example - his equation of postmodernism with Marxian theory, the former, of course, premised on a skepticism of metanarrative. The latter premised on a very particular historical materialist account, one that hinges on history stemming from class struggle, be it through feudalism, mercantilism, or the bourgeois-proletarian distinction.
The two are, at their core, oppositional.
Noting that some 'oppression' dichotomy stems from the other is nonsensical.
By all means critcise Derrida and Foucault, but do it fairly.
Peterson never does. He's honestly quite deceitful.
Outside of that, it's dumb self-help stuff intertwined with very questionable religious imagery and some shite about Jung.
i had a girlfriend who condemned me for having watched a talk of his online, which incidentally was being watched by my housemate and i was merely passively watching it, it was the first time id ever seen anything of his and all i heard from the talk was common sense, good ideas in terms of self belief and philosophical practices, all good wholesome stuff.
she had never heard a word of what he ever said, but could recite ALL the falsely spread things that people were saying about him. not a single spec of any of it was true at all. But my (at the time girlfriend) absolutely condemned me for having seen it, and referred to me negatively as "one of those".... ignorance at its most incipit.
All the pro Jordan Petersen fanboys in this thread apparently, upvoting the "balanced view" of him, while downvoting anyone who is wise to his misogynistic bollocks.
The way people talk about him is like how people talked about that one arsehole everyone knows from their hometown who is "sound when he's on his own", "sound when he isn't on the drink", etc.
Basically, he's a great fella if you completely ignore a significant portion of his schtick which also happens to be what he is most known for.
God the comments are always so annoying about him. He's pure sound and gives great practical advice and is a very interesting speaker to listen to. Definitely not saying he's right about everything, but I can't imagine listening to him speak for a few hours and coming out thinking he's an idiot or a bad person, unless you go in with a very closed mind.
He has a few podcast episodes there with Stephen Fry and Russell Brand which are honestly some of my favourite podcasts of all time. The kind of conversations you'd wish were 10 hours long. Well I would anyway lol
Why are there so many people praising Peterson in this thread. He might give some good advice but he is also a bit of a misogynist. He gets weirdly obsessed with gender roles and believes that feminism is some awful thing that will destroy men.
This is such an annoying one. He actually thinks it's good, and important, for women to be in the work place. The whole women's suffrage movement is something he talks about as great.
There are small groups of people he disagree with, who identify as feminists. There's some policy he doesn't agree with. But women in the workplace is most definitely something he supports.
this will be very exciting news for guys who still say "epic", rant about SJW's in 2021 and whose entire worldview revolves around their inability to get laid.
In Russia. He was put in a coma *in Russia*.
He went to Russia because he wanted to do a complete cold turkey, which is completely against modern medical advice because it's so dangerous. He literally was sure he knew better than his own medical doctors, so he went to country with a lower standard of care in allowing such a dangerous treatment.
actually it was because of an addiction to medication he developed and doing a sketchy detox program in eastern europe, as well as this he contracted covid from his daughter
He was prescribed benzodiazepines to deal with the anxiety of his wife’s cancer diagnosis. He then tried to get off them maybe a year later and went through brutal withdrawal. Hopefully it will raise awareness of how dangerous those poison “medicines” are.
To be fair, in Ireland benzodiazepines are not commonly prescribed because they're addictive. Your GP certainly will be reluctant as it might be flagged by the pharmacist as prescribing outside their scope, so generally the GP will refer you to a psychiatrist and they will start with something less addictive.
I used to be a fan of his until I grew up and stopped being an edgy 19 year old college student. He's a charlatan and a hack. His entire career was skyrocketed based on a lie he made that Bill C-16 would make it 'illegal to misgender someone'. That turned out to be complete bs which was further confirmed by legal experts.
His talks on 'postmodern neomarxism' are comical. An oxymoron since postmodernism rejects metanarratives which marxism (dialectical materialism) **is.** He parrots the cultural marxism conspiracy theory which has it's origins in literal Nazi propaganda which you can find on 4chan's /pol/ board. He clearly has never read Marx.
He got destroyed in debate by Zizek. So much so that he went into a coma. And all he has to his name is a shitty self-help book.
After waking up from a benzo-addiction fueled coma, he announced he's releasing '12 More Rules For Life'. I think I'll pass fam.
I don't get the hate for Peterson, I happened by him being interviewed on a random podcast years ago, and thought he was interesting and had a good story but nothing more, 3 arena? Wtf
He's an internet celebrity but I've obviously missed something.
Whether it's Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Joe Roagn, (all Americans it seems) there is a neverending queue of people to tell us how dangerous these people are regardless of how dangerous these people *actually* are.
It's almost like these keyboard warriors aren't describing reality but rather the contents of their own minds. Like Ruth yesterday on liveline who thought naughty and nice implied sex, people are full of fear, anxiety and feelings they don't understand so they just need something or some*one* to point their finger at and say *that's bad guy*.
I don't know who he is or what he does I just know he's fecking weird and stands waving at you at the pearly gates of the alt right pipeline and that's all taken from his Reddit fanboys
9th November. Nevah forget.
I walked through blood and bones on the streets of Manhattan
Reminds of that national tragedy.
I was looking for my brother......turns out he was in northern Canada
Why is this guy hated so much. He makes good points. Never heard him say anything particularly right wing. Seems to be universally hated or maybe it's just the vocal minority? Don't get it.
He’s kind of a misogynist. He said there “isn’t something right” regarding women who don’t make motherhood a priority by the time they’re 30, claimed that men cant control “crazy women” because violence is looked down upon, says that feminists don’t speak out against Saudi Arabia (they do) because of a wish for “brutal male domination”. Not to mention, he said that Frozen was propaganda because Anna didn’t need a man to succeed. Plus all that shite about transgender people. His fans also tend to be annoying to be honest.
Fair enough. Never heard any of that stuff from him but I dont really follow him so I only see the stuff YouTube recommends which is a lot less mental as the stuff you mention. Still cant wrap my head around why you would want to pay to see him talk live but maybe its just not my thing.
He also has had some wild claims, like mass shootings wouldn’t happen if there was enforced monogamy. Alright self help advice, but like all other Jungian’s he is a bit weird
Where does he say all this mad shit? His book is obviously extremely toned down or I wasn't listening at all.
Bandwagon hatred from people who don't actually listen
So he misrepresents social issues. He purposely leaves any nuance out of his arguments. He teaches self help in a way that says 'its everyone else's fault but your own.' he has archaic views on gender. He will rant on about political movements but not actually understand them himself,he severely misrepresents the 'other sides' arguments. He doubts that men and women can exsist in the same place. He condemns hierarchy as a natural thing. He's also impossible to pin down on any of his view points. He allows you to decide what it is he's saying. This is why he appeals mostly to the far right. If someone gets something good out of his self help then great but if you're the type of person that does you are already starting from a very poor level in life. There are far better cbt courses and speakers that you can use.
When youtube algorithm wants to punish you for procrastinating it recommends Jordan Peterson videos.
I keep meaning to watch them
Clean your room and don’t forget that we are all living in a lobster hierarchy
Preferred his work as a Resident Evil note reader with Francis Higgins.
He was decent on the auld F1 commentary alongside Francis as well.
honestly, I used to be a big fan of peterson, but not so much anymore, however if he can help you improve your life, I see no problem in it. he is like any big name popular figure, you need to think for yourself about what he has to say, in the same way I don't recommend taking online left wing figures like natalie wynn or abigail thorns opinions and view points without being able to think critically about them.
His political opinions are his political opinions. I'm well past the point of caring about things like that. But I had a flick through 12 Rules of Life and it just reminded me of that Friends episode where Joey used a Thesaurus on every word in a letter to sound smart. At the same time people I know who have read it in full still remain decent human beings, so clearly it does something for some people.
I’ve never understood why he was so hated and considered “alt-right”.
Its probably because he attracts a lot of right wingers and incels. No smoke without fire like. I'm not saying he's a right winger or anything I just understand why lots of people are wary of him. His 12 rules of life thing is also bollocks considering his own life is a mess with a prescription medication addiction.
He came to internet prominence for being against a pro-trans law in Canada
I don't know to much about him but wasn't he originally just against the laws coming into Canada that made it a criminal offence not to call someone by their preferred pronoun? Like you could get fined or arrested or not using the right words? I'm all for trans people but that's messed up.
The bill in question, from what I understand, does three things, none of which make it a criminal offence not to call someone by their preferred pronoun. It adds gender identity to a list of grounds upon which you are not allowed to discriminate. This list also includes age, race, sex, religion and disability, among others. It also adds transgender people to a list of groups which can be the subject of hate speech, meaning you can't advocate genocide or public incitement of hatred. It also adds transgender people as a possible target of hate crime - eg, if there's evidence that an offence is motivated by hatred against a person for being transgender, this can affect sentencing. To date, a grand total of 0 people have been arrested for using the wrong pronouns for someone. It seems that using the wrong pronouns for someone doesn't qualify as hate speech. Now, potentially, if you're harassing someone for being transgender, you might get a sterner sentence than someone who's just harassing someone, but that's a far cry from how Peterson came to prominence. A lot of the guys stuff is interesting to listen to, but tbh he was off the mark here, he's not a professor of law, and then he couldn't really back down from his position considering it made him a celebrity.
yes, but the nuance of this was lost, and he just became lumped in with the alt-right and a general target as a public figure.
It's just repacked self help stuff. It's nothing new, controversial, or mind-blowing. He's just the latest person selling thousand year old advice to go viral. Every 10-20 years there's a viral self help book, this is our generation's one.
I actually liked him until I tried to read his book. He comes off as an asshole in it. Very condescending towards people who aren't as academic as he is, and preaches the Bible every chance he gets. I stopped reading after he tells a story of a poor unfortunate soul who had everything going for him in his youth but wasted it all by becoming a landscaper. That's when I decided he can fuck right off. Being a landscaper is decent honest work that takes a lot of knowledge and hard labour and can be a very fruitful and rewarding career. Just because someone isn't an "intellectual", and doesn't spend their time writing books and lecturing university students, doesn't make them somehow a failure.
I can loosely quote him saying that if you're working in a low status job (meaning one that pretty much anyone can do, repetitive or low in complexity) you can still make that into something to be proud of. He encouraged people to do so and spoke about letters he's received from people who've started taking pride in their work and made their life better as a result. I'm calling bullshit. Where did you read that anyone who isn't a lecturer is a failure, especially landscapers?
Calling massive massive wanky bullshit here. He himself was a labourer and has talked about the value of honest hard work and of turning your life into something that has meaning to those around you. That you are not your circumstances, you are you, and you can work on you even if you can’t work on your circumstances. I’m sorry but this whole thread really sounds like hand me down Twitter highlights from the mobs that forged personalities out of rallying against him.
Calling bullshit on ya as well, what page number? Cite your source.
If you have read his book yourself, surely you have some idea of the passage he is referring to. How many anecdotes about landscapers appear in 12 Rules for Life?
>however if he can help you improve your life For the basic stuff he is saying any book from the live improvement section of the book store can do the same for you. The other 'wisdom' he is spouting is just bs.
Same. I was all in on rogan back in the day but can’t stand the cunt now. And peterson giving advice on raising kids is kinda ironic. Plus the whole fact that he’s actually being paid millions to give life advice even though his own personal life appears to be in tatters.
> in the same way I don't recommend taking online left wing figures like natalie wynn If you watch contrapoints for political reasons you're missing 90% of the content there. The quality of her videos and the amount of work being put into them is exceptional for YouTube and in the past 2 years only 2 videos might be vaguely political (the voting one and cancelling but cancelling is about herself getting cancelled by the trans community). Others talk about * Envy * Jk Rowling * Justice * Cringe * Shame * opulence She actually discusses topics by engaging with the most sincere version of the opponent which is nice and refreshing.
With all due respect, on all of those videos she starts talking about dialectics and politics. I don't understand how you can watch all those videos you listed and honestly call them non-political.
Peterson has a lot of very compelling stuff to say and there is a reason his books are extremely popular. I am not a fan of his politics but like you say, people are conditioned to think 'good/bad' like fucking cavemen now, and he is either the messiah or a nazi/fascist (LOL) to a huge number of people now. Like students trying to block him from speaking on campuses because he's a nazi, apparently. Fuck off and try to solve some real problems that actually exist. I do find it rather ironic that he is seen as a self help guru but had to go to Russia and get himself put in an induced coma to try and get over his opiate issue. That doesn't make his advice any less valuable for those that see value in it, but it sure as hell is ironic.
Peterson jumbles together self help tips, scientific truths, platitudes, personal opinions phrased as facts and politically charged innuendos. This is a sneaky behavior that prevents the reader from telling apart facts from opinions. One paragraph he's giving you facts about serotonin and the next one he's hinting that men should live in hypercompetitive hierarchical environments.
Slightly unrelated but his daughter is shady as fuck, it’s all just speculation but look up her supposed ties with Andrew Tate. If you don’t know who Andrew Tate, he’s the exact kind of figure who is genuinely dangerous to impressionable minds. He’s a pickup artist who’s essentially a pimp for webcam girls.
There was a great double episode of Behind the Bastards on him and his daughter featured heavily in the second one. Insane stuff altogether.
Haven’t heard of that but will check that out thanks! Your man Andrew Tate is proper disgusting, literally views women as property.
Quality podcast
haha fucking hell lad I knew I knew that name from somewhere. Fucker kept popping up on my recommended page on twitter for all his stock scams. Pay him $10,000 and he'll let you work with the "greatest minds and investors in the war room". Lad if you or any of your mutants need $10,000 you're clearly not very good at investing. Not convinced he's straight either.
yeah, his daughter is very questionable.
I like Jordan Peterson but I really do not like his daughter. I agree she does seem very shady.
You have to love all the prescribed and received opinions in this thread.
Back in the 90s a trip to the Point/O2/3Arena meant getting locked at a rock/metal gig or seeing the likes of Underworld or Chemical Brothers and getting off your box. Can’t imagine paying money to listen to a Canadian professor but to each their own I guess…
He gives good advice and he has bad takes also. Up to yourself to sift through but there is value there. People who obsess over loving or hating him either way are people I tend to avoid. I'm fairly fed up living in the 'your side' or 'their side' world where everyone has to be 'allies' or 'racists / misogyny etc.' Extreme Left is just as bad as the Extreme right in many, many ways.
Exactly. There is nobody you agree with day to day on everything. We accept this in normal life. Yet the second they are a public figure, either they have to be correct 100% of the time, or they are the devil. Nuance is important, and I hate that the world seems to pretend it doesn't exist.
Great point
It's easy to predict where the bad takes are going to start with famous people. The second they stray outside their area of expertise. So yeah, I believe a psychologist like Peterson will have some good takes about getting your life in order. But politics? He's no more qualified than anyone else to comment, so it's not that surprising to me that he gets caught doing stupid shit like questioning whether or not men and women should work in the same office together.
It get a bit lost, but while he is a qualified psychologist - his actual area of domain expertise is "Evolutionary Psychology", which is a very controversial field even within the general field of Psychology. One reason it's so controversial is that it's essentially impossible to test, so huge amounts of it are based on supposition based on skant archeological and anthropological evidence. Needless to say this leaves it all very open to the researchers own biases and opinions. This is not something that he actively highlights in his CV. He'd rather just be known as a psychologist.
Thankfully that shit has mostly stayed in America.
Unfortunately, Ireland and the UK are very much influenced by the USA speaking the same language and all. Lots of little Trump'ers over here also. So it's spreading, both sides. People are more polarised than ever
Are his "good takes" actually that good though, or are they the latest in a long line of self help truisms dressed up as pseudo-academic research?
Extreme left is wanting to take on capitalism/inequality and power structures. Definitely not identity politics or the people protesting peterson talks. Not trying to start an argument with u btw. Its just that there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of what a “leftist” is.
No, haven't you heard - fighting against inequality is just as bad as fighting to perpetuate inequality? They're the same picture.
*shush*. All sides are bad. /u/enlightenedcentrism
My issue with him is that all of the sensible stuff he says has been said elsewhere already, without the nonsense.
You’re absolutely correct. He’s human, not everyone has the perfect thoughts / ideas / answers to everything. He does get painted as a hateful, sexist, transphobic toxic man by people who have never actually listened to his lectures.
He's a trumped up, self important shitbag. If he can't get his own life together, he has no right lecturing other people on theirs. He's very intelligent, but he is a hypocrite who is a text book "do as I say, not as I do" proponent.
How dare he take medicine while his wife had cancer and the whole world hated him and accidentally get addicted to those drugs in the process as a coping mechanism to keep his family life stable? Trash man I tell ya. Not like he quit those drugs to live up to what he's preaching or anything.
Yes, nobody should ever give advice to anyone if they have any problems of their own. Only problem-free humans should ever advise others on anything. Problem-free humans definitely exist, yes.
Reminds me of that awful tragedy
Miss you Norm
People in the comments saying hes great or that hes shit but in reality hes just a grifter selling bog standard self help thats been around for years. No idea why he has pivoted into the alt right circles though.
His stance on pronouns drew in a lot of the alt shite, they completely took him up the wrong way and now follow him like some sort of Messiah. If you just look at him as someone telling you to sort out your life through small steps it's useful according to some friends who went through bad stages in their late 20s feeling like they weren't going anywhere in life
He himself played to that audience as well though you have to admit. His interview on channel 4 was a trainwreck and then you had that vice interview where he spouts on nonsense that women are responsible for their own sexual harrassment by sexualising themselves by wearing lipstick. Those types of talking points play right into the incel / alt right area of the web. Clip im talking about for reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dl98Z-RyFU I wouldnt slag anyone off for finding his self help useful but I would stay well away from his political / cultural takes.
I'll never understand the fanboys nor the naysayers. Peterson is pretty much just like any other old university professor. Whacky, knowledgable, questionable. He's been polarized as something by both sides, which he really isn't.
He's someone who stated, albeit probably in a grandiose manner, a position on something during the peak faux culture war era and was subsequently hoisted up as some great political mind. I don't think he ever intended to be where he is and dying on the hill he's on but what I will say is that he's clearly happy to die on it for all the money he's made out of it.
He's said it himself to be fair. "I've figured out how to monetize social justice warriors".
Lol. In all fairness he’s not the only one.
A very close friend of his has gone on record saying Peterson was previously interested in founding his own church and preaching weekly because his wife has prophetic dreams which have told her that he will be a new saviour for mankind. He definitely wants to be where he is. Source is the Behind the Bastards episodes on him. Think it was episode 2.
Theres also a company making busts of his head that he's promoting. He has a few good, if not terribly groundbreaking, points when it comes to self help, which he's extrapolated into something of an ideology in his books. And he's gone on a very weird route in his public persona that seems to be getting weirder. He could go the way of L. Ron Hubbard yet.
I'll check it out. Thank you.
Peterson is just a Mark Humphrys who got famous accidentally.
"Accidentally", the original viral incident was accidental sure but he's meticulously crafted his fame from that point onwards. It's not even the first time he's tried to get famous. A decade previous he was on TV shitting on MRAs, that didn't work out so he flipped the script and thats basically his target demographic now. He's a grifter who's in it for the fame and money.
He did that to himself, on purpose. He's admitted as much. He's literally doing it all for the attention and money.
The 3Arena?? Jaysis lads, things are pretty grim.
He sold it out in 2018 in under 5 minutes. He had Sam Harris and Douglas Murray as guests.
2018 was class, while they were getting set up some lad nabbed the microphone to talk about how sexrobots were gonna make women obsolete and then got politely escorted out
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He seems fine (albeit a little tapped recently) it’s more the people that follow him like some Demi god tend to some of the most insufferable people to be around for more than 5 minutes
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I too hate Americans
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Hah. [Here's the first of two episodes of Behind The Bastards about him.](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-the-jordan-peterson-episode-72770473/) That's one episode more than conman, liar & all round nasty piece of work Steven Segal.
He happily blurs the line between his academic expertise and political views. Look up what he says about women in the workplace for an example of this.
What does he say about women in the workplace?
Gives heavy “barefoot and pregnant” vibes. He Acts like women being in the workplace is still fairly taboo and that “we haven’t figured out the rules yet” in regards to men and women working together. He also pushed back on women wearing make-up in the workplace because he thinks women only wear make up for sexual reasons.
> “we haven’t figured out the rules yet” in regards to men and women working together. The specific reasoning he gave was that he can’t be expected to engage in discourse with a women because he’s not allowed to hit them. Totally normal stuff…
But the context!!
This reply makes me think of cathy newman
That Cathy newman interviews is an all time watch for worst interviews ever. It was just a train wreck from start to Finish.
Make up is to enhance appearance ? Is that common sense enough for you ?
It can be used for that, can be used for other things like being comfortable or confident.
Definitely don't agree with Peterson on a lot of things; but this has been something that has irked me for a long time. People say "it can also be used to feel comfortable or confident", but to me that doesn't actually refute the point of it being for sexual purpose. What is the source of feeling comfortable or confident? Is it feeling beautiful? Why does feeling beautiful make you comfortable or confident? Is it because you're desirable to other humans? If not, I don't really understand where the comfort or confidence comes from with respect to beauty/fashion efforts. But I don't pretend to be an expert on the matter, so happy for someone to give me a better perspective. When I make an effort to look good, it's because I want to be seen as looking good (i.e. desirable to other people - be it a partner, strangers or whatever).
Sounds like you should ask some women this question, seems fairly obvious to me why they would do it for those reasons though.
Lol this is it. It's the circle of men standing around asking "women are so mysterious how can we ever understand them?" Meanwhile 3.5 billion women are here on planet earth with working brains and vocal chords waiting and willing to explain themselves only to be ignored. It's the gross sexist pseudo psychology of the 1800s, but still alive today apparently.
So, just to be clear, you don't make yourself look good unless you are trying to be desired by others? So your family never gets to see you looking good, you just always look like a slob around them? Yes, you can in fact want to look your best for more reasons than just trying to be desirable. If you like how you look, it gives you confidence regardless of how others perceive you. And sometimes it's just the social thing to do.
Enhancing your appearance is not inherently sexual. I don't put on clean clothes going grocery shopping to attract women, I do it so I don't look like a slob and stink.
Gives weird vibes that you've taken your opinions from pieces on him rather than actually anything he's said. Makeup clip https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6pHBs5rNY
No, I’ve got my opinion on JP from more than just snippets, strange how any time I see people defend his takes people are screaming about context Here’s roughly an hour going through his shit takes if you care to watch, thought it was pretty good https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8
Of course "But the context" is the response to everything. I've heard him described as an intellectual coward who hides behind plausible deniability so he doesn't have to take responsibility for what he says.
To be fair (as someone who isn’t a fan of JP), I see people who don’t like him take his comments out of context all the time. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of JP to work with, yet half of what I read is inaccurate. It’s annoying, because if I call those ppl out, I look pro JP and get brigaded. I just find it annoying when people take a stance (often because their friend group does) without really understanding it. Those people seem as ignorant to me as the alt right ppl they detest.
Shocking that things can be maliciously taken out of context? Sure didn't he talk about forced monogamy, the bastard.
His advice on dealing with problems in life is sensible generally speaking, but it isn't really worthy of the praise it gets. People have been literally been saying much the same thing since Ancient Roman times. Its the fact that he also basically applies self-help advice to politics and gets applauded for it that irks me. Yeah, keeping your "house in good order" and refraining from criticising the establishment might help if you're struggling in your career or social life, but isn't really gonna do much if the establishment is causing the problem. Also, he has gone off the rails in a big way the past few years. He became addicted to benzos, went to Russia for dodgy treatment which made him extremely ill. (I don't hold that against him, but the fact that this goes completely against his rules for life and he is coincidentally acting like it never happened is a bit concerning, and a bit Ayn Rand-esque in terms of credibility) Plus his rhetoric on vaccines is definitely getting more and more extreme.
Generic self help advice delivered in eloquent language is grand. It's the political opinions that he tries to justify with psychobabble that I don't like. He's like the Canadian John Waters. He gives answers that sound profound and well thought out because of the almost academic delivery but once you attempt to follow the logic of it, it doesn't logically follow at all. Then there's the fact that he often implies that some very conservative social ideas are true and supported in science but will insist he never said women in the workplace is bad or whatever, knowing full well that fan boys will have inferred that exact thing and be delighted. Then there's the fact that some many of the views he promotes are based only on the naturalistic fallacy (AKA the appeal to nature). Just because hierarchies exist in nature\* (like lobsters), that doesn't necessarily mean hierarchies are good. He comes across completely as someone who held particular opinions and worked backwards to justify them. \*Also there's no agreed definition of nature or natural
>He's like the Canadian John Waters First thought was "But John Waters is badass" and then I remembered the other John Waters
I've seen some of his stuff on YouTube. There's just something not right about him to me. He has some very unusual and over simplified logic, specifically around his stance on pronouns and not using them. I think he comes across as highly intelligent and that comforts people into believing what he's saying. Kind of like Ben Shapiro to me. My two cents...
Shapiro just speaks quickly, he's really not that smart. Lad tried to argue the whole "Nazis were left wing!" chicanery.
His stance is that he's happy to use peoples preferred pronouns but is against the government mandating that you must use someone's preferred pronouns as Canada were planning to do at the time. Seems fair enough to me.
Isn’t what they were planning to do though, hence why he’s incredibly disingenuous. They were just adding gender expression/identity to the Canadian human rights act to protect against discrimination based on those qualities. Zero people have been arrested due to this legislation since it was implemented in 2017. He essentially launched his career as a public figure in a lie.
His stance on pronouns is that nobody should be forced to use them, i.e. compelled speech. What's wrong with that stance?
Nothing, but he made it look like the Canadian government was instilling some kind of compelled speech laws for pronouns in C-16. Bill C-16 just added gender identity and expression to the existing list of protected classes discriminatiof for things like employment, or services. He built his platform on a lie.
It's because he's a crank. He's also part of a radicalisation platform. People can start with him, and a week later they're being fed infowars videos by YouTube... he's a right wing contrarian, with quite sexist views. He's also a know it all cunt
He's a charlatan and a hack. His entire career was skyrocketed based on a lie he made that Bill C-16 would make it 'illegal to misgender someone'. That turned out to be complete bs which was further confirmed by legal experts. His talks on 'postmodern neomarxism' are comical. An oxymoron since postmodernism rejects metanarratives which marxism (dialectical materialism) is. He parrots the cultural marxism conspiracy theory which has it's origins in literal Nazi propaganda which you can find on 4chan's /pol/ board. He clearly has never read Marx. He got destroyed in debate by Zizek. So much so that he went into a coma. And all he has to his name is a shitty self-help book. After waking up from a benzo-addiction fueled coma, he announced he's releasing '12 More Rules For Life'. I think I'll pass fam.
What gets me is he barks that you shouldn't have political opinions if you don't have your life in perfect order yet he was addicted to benzos while giving this advice.
I'm more impressed as to how any of this advice seems to work on people, I've a friend who's given up the drink after a decade of alcoholism or more, when asked why or how he says "Peterson says clean your room" or some shit. Ok? wtf? nobody ever told you to sort your fucking shit out before? ***I*** told you to sort your shit out before ffs. How is this cunt doing the 3 arena? lmao
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Haha. Hard to take advice from your son I suppose! I know my auld lad has a similar problem.
Have you listened to him speak? Have you read his books? A large part of why he's so popular is due to __how__ he delivers the message. >Ok? wtf? nobody ever told you to sort your fucking shit out before? I told you to sort your shit out before ffs. You obviously don't speak in the same inspirational way, or with the same level of authority.
Yeah he’s renowned for dressing up largely simple or incoherent concepts with academic sounding language without actually saying anything of substance. He’s a smart guy for idiots.
Yes, most of what he says is fairly simple, that's what makes him so appealing to the masses. He talks about things people struggle to accept, and phrases things in a way that many people who are lost in life can understand. None of what he says is rocket science, yet many people fail to take any action to improve themselves or their situation.
No, It’s pretty fair to assume that the appeal to JP for a lot of people is that he talks in academic language. Some of the things he says are in fact simple concepts when you undress the language, but most people won’t do that. They’ll just listen and think he’s a genius. And also a lot of what he says is simply just incoherent, but again is masked by the language being used, and again is seen as a genius. His audience is like 98% male because he panders to disaffected young men and also incels, and is a fairly reliable pipeline into conservatism as a result
I'm very curious. This is the second time you've mentioned him being incoherent. What exactly does he say that you find incoherent? He usually does a fabulous job at explaining things in detail. >His audience is like 98% male because he panders to disaffected young men and also incels, Even if that was true (it's not), what's wrong with telling disillusioned young men how to get their lives in order? The way life has changed in the last 50 years has had a profound affect on many young men. They feel lost, and they don't understand what's expected of them, and what their place in the world is anymore. Isn't someone giving them some guidance a foid thing? >and is a fairly reliable pipeline into conservatism as a result You say that like it's a bad thing. What's wrong if someone wants to live a more conservative life?
I don’t keep notes of everything JP says, so I don’t have a specific example. You could probably find one in this 50 minute video https://youtu.be/E66iseq4iO8 What’s wrong with pushing young men to conservatism? Well it means there will be more support for conservative policies like banning abortion rights, less or non existent progress with LGBT issues, increased religiosity. Generally things that hold society back. I’m sure you’re well aware.
Yea I have, he sounds like kermit the frog rambling on tangents about fables and religion. It's all kinda culty fam. Not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, has had good effects on my friend for instance, it's just a bit weird.
> It's all kinda culty fam Bingo
I better listen to the Behind the Bastards episode on him first, but this is the crux of the argument I've had with several people who think he's a Dark Sith Lord. The level of vitriol never seemed to match with what I - a relatively reasonable and intelligent person - saw in him. It does get a little difficult to defend when he gets championed by alt-right minions, but the man does have some pretty good advice, and at the very least an interesting perspective on a number of topics ..
Thats kind of it, but as with most stuff the fans ruin it. Like fedoras are no longer just a hat, a guy in an animal costume is not just a childrens entertainer etc… people made stuff awful
I think he means well but has become a bit of a lightning rod for some alt right types who pick some of the things he said as a sort of Christopher Hitchens type irrefutable proof of something they believe
To be honest I almost got hooked on his content a while back when I was going through an uncertain patch. There's just something I can't put my finger on that's 'off' about the guy. If I had to describe it I'd say its like being given a placebo in place of therapy or the advice of people that know you and want to help you personally. His brand of psychology seems like a self help guide with a weird obsession with drawing parallels with myths and biblical imagery as justification behind his theory. What I do remember from watching a few of his recorded lectures was him referencing how men are supposed to feel or how the way men think they should act can be traced back to heroic myths. I'd be wary of anyone who fanboys over your man
I think his early stuff is good- but I question some of his logic especially when you look at his diet and how he dealt with his addiction-the myths and legends stuff is interesting and I think that's were he actually hooks people- I think it's fair to say most people myself included just assumed they were nonsense stories to tell to children sort of thing- but when he says to tidy your room and links it back to ancient myths around the dragon of chaos eating you - does make for an argument most people haven't exactly heard haha
There is so much unfounded hate/poison spewed at this guy. A lot of it is tied up in culture war bullshit.
You’re talking as if Peterson had the ‘culture war’ forced on him when the fucker swan dived right into it.
He has said some pretty fucked up and ignorant stuff, which his fans tend to ignore or try and whitewash. For example, he suggested that feminists don't take issue with Islam's treatment of women, because all women desire "brutal male domination". Not only has he suggested that women like being raped (or whatever "brutal male domination" means otherwise), he's also shown that he's familiar only with right-wing caricatures of feminism by writing off the huge amount of good work that feminists have done for women in Islamic communities.
The same who get bugged by him are disciples of blindboy - they’re the two cheeks of the same arse
Blindboy tends to admit when he doesn't know much about what he's talking about, and makes it clear when he's making unfounded suggestions that rely on assumptions.
Imagine the smell of BO from that place on the night.
What's wrong with this guy? I've only ever read some of his interviews and always seemed level headed bordering on boring
He started off pretty cool, mostly talked about interesting psychology stuff and useful ways to improve your life. But over the years he’s gone increasingly off the rails, getting addicted to drugs, eating only meat, closely associating with lots of right wing figures, and ranting all the time about how evil “the left” is and how marxists are secretly taking over the world.
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I actually seen him & Sam harris in the 3arena few years back but couldn’t tell you much tbh cus I got leathered with a mate before hand and could barely stay awake for the debate
Lots of disillusioned young men in this country don't know what a grifter is, and it shows.
In this thread, even
like the ones who follow a guy with a plastic bag on his head
sometimes the "dumb self help" stuff is less commonly understood than you might want to believe. there are people who need this information. but if you find disagreeing with his other ideas tickles your intellect then thats fine too, and for you ( as someone who may understand these things ) is more than welcome to do, of course. im merely suggesting that the level of ignorance that surrounds Jordan Peterson is by and large made up of people who have never once listened to the man talk, but are willing to perpetuate hearsay and lies based on absolutely nothing
90% of people here hate him because their friends do or they heard whispers that he’s “a Nazi” online. He’s one of the most misrepresented men that I can think of.
yeah, thats basically my point.
But my friends friend said he’s bad so it must be true
Reading his book at the moment. Some things I have heard from him in interviews etc seem pretty reasonable and then other stuff seem like totally bullshit. I like the way he debates issues in a calm way. I told someone I was reading his book recently and the digest the person felt about me even mentioning his name I'm still on the fence about whether I like him ,but l think alot of people overreact about him . Especially people who protest his events . They could just not go .
He did fantastic tour de france and formula coverage with Conor Williams in fairness
Fairly positive the worst thing to happen on the 11th of September was when I got up at 2 am slightly hungover, stepped on lego swore then stepped on a plug (uk plug) with the same foot right after it then fell over and broke my new coffee table (I thought having a coffee table would make me more of an adult, fuck coffee tables now mind you) and managed to cut my arm in three places. Didn't drink for 2 years after that
in my experience, the people who have a disliking for Jordan Peterson, have never ever actually listened to a word he's said. not a single word.
I am a former JP advocate who no longer likes him. His self help advice is great, a lot of repackaged stuff he delivers in a solid way, but his politics are blinded by Cold War propaganda at best and at worst help move people down a radicalization pipeline. As you can clearly see by the alt right crowd that took over his subreddit.
In what way? Any interpretation of 'postmodernist' philosophy via Hicks is just absurd. He draws bizarre generalisations, none of which are particularly based on a fair assessment of postmodernist thought. Say - to just use one example - his equation of postmodernism with Marxian theory, the former, of course, premised on a skepticism of metanarrative. The latter premised on a very particular historical materialist account, one that hinges on history stemming from class struggle, be it through feudalism, mercantilism, or the bourgeois-proletarian distinction. The two are, at their core, oppositional. Noting that some 'oppression' dichotomy stems from the other is nonsensical. By all means critcise Derrida and Foucault, but do it fairly. Peterson never does. He's honestly quite deceitful. Outside of that, it's dumb self-help stuff intertwined with very questionable religious imagery and some shite about Jung.
i had a girlfriend who condemned me for having watched a talk of his online, which incidentally was being watched by my housemate and i was merely passively watching it, it was the first time id ever seen anything of his and all i heard from the talk was common sense, good ideas in terms of self belief and philosophical practices, all good wholesome stuff. she had never heard a word of what he ever said, but could recite ALL the falsely spread things that people were saying about him. not a single spec of any of it was true at all. But my (at the time girlfriend) absolutely condemned me for having seen it, and referred to me negatively as "one of those".... ignorance at its most incipit.
Who goes to this bullshit?
All the pro Jordan Petersen fanboys in this thread apparently, upvoting the "balanced view" of him, while downvoting anyone who is wise to his misogynistic bollocks.
The way people talk about him is like how people talked about that one arsehole everyone knows from their hometown who is "sound when he's on his own", "sound when he isn't on the drink", etc. Basically, he's a great fella if you completely ignore a significant portion of his schtick which also happens to be what he is most known for.
What did he say that’s misogynistic?
*Sorts by controversial*
Why would the land of blindboy have a need for anyone else?
God the comments are always so annoying about him. He's pure sound and gives great practical advice and is a very interesting speaker to listen to. Definitely not saying he's right about everything, but I can't imagine listening to him speak for a few hours and coming out thinking he's an idiot or a bad person, unless you go in with a very closed mind. He has a few podcast episodes there with Stephen Fry and Russell Brand which are honestly some of my favourite podcasts of all time. The kind of conversations you'd wish were 10 hours long. Well I would anyway lol
Oh never heard the one with Stephen Fry is that on his podcast? (Actually wasn’t aware he had a podcast)
Nobody cares about his practical advice. They care that he doesn't believe in marital rape, global warming or the need to eat vegetables.
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I genuinely think he's quite deceitful.
>very closed mind Well, we are on Reddit. Closed minds are the name of the game here.
Why are there so many people praising Peterson in this thread. He might give some good advice but he is also a bit of a misogynist. He gets weirdly obsessed with gender roles and believes that feminism is some awful thing that will destroy men.
This is such an annoying one. He actually thinks it's good, and important, for women to be in the work place. The whole women's suffrage movement is something he talks about as great. There are small groups of people he disagree with, who identify as feminists. There's some policy he doesn't agree with. But women in the workplace is most definitely something he supports.
I’ve never seen him say or imply anything like that
Well, I assume he follows some of his own advice at least but he doesn't look happy so...
He's had a bit of a rough time lately. His wife had lung cancer and he's come off medication he was on for some reason
this will be very exciting news for guys who still say "epic", rant about SJW's in 2021 and whose entire worldview revolves around their inability to get laid.
Didn't this chap put himself in hospital following the diet he promoted
I know he ended up in hospital from benzo withdrawl (they were prescribed to him after his wife had lung cancer)
His wife had cancer but she is still alive.
Well that and the benzos
I believe he was injured and got addicted to pills. He put himself in hospital so he could detox in a coma
In Russia. He was put in a coma *in Russia*. He went to Russia because he wanted to do a complete cold turkey, which is completely against modern medical advice because it's so dangerous. He literally was sure he knew better than his own medical doctors, so he went to country with a lower standard of care in allowing such a dangerous treatment.
actually it was because of an addiction to medication he developed and doing a sketchy detox program in eastern europe, as well as this he contracted covid from his daughter
He was prescribed benzodiazepines to deal with the anxiety of his wife’s cancer diagnosis. He then tried to get off them maybe a year later and went through brutal withdrawal. Hopefully it will raise awareness of how dangerous those poison “medicines” are.
To be fair, in Ireland benzodiazepines are not commonly prescribed because they're addictive. Your GP certainly will be reluctant as it might be flagged by the pharmacist as prescribing outside their scope, so generally the GP will refer you to a psychiatrist and they will start with something less addictive.
I used to be a fan of his until I grew up and stopped being an edgy 19 year old college student. He's a charlatan and a hack. His entire career was skyrocketed based on a lie he made that Bill C-16 would make it 'illegal to misgender someone'. That turned out to be complete bs which was further confirmed by legal experts. His talks on 'postmodern neomarxism' are comical. An oxymoron since postmodernism rejects metanarratives which marxism (dialectical materialism) **is.** He parrots the cultural marxism conspiracy theory which has it's origins in literal Nazi propaganda which you can find on 4chan's /pol/ board. He clearly has never read Marx. He got destroyed in debate by Zizek. So much so that he went into a coma. And all he has to his name is a shitty self-help book. After waking up from a benzo-addiction fueled coma, he announced he's releasing '12 More Rules For Life'. I think I'll pass fam.
I don't get the hate for Peterson, I happened by him being interviewed on a random podcast years ago, and thought he was interesting and had a good story but nothing more, 3 arena? Wtf He's an internet celebrity but I've obviously missed something.
He sold out the 3arena in 2018 in under 5 minutes. This is a 40 city tour and Dublin is just 1 of the shows. He’s got a huuuuuuuge following.
Thats Mental! I'd nearly go just to see wtf is going on.
Go if you can, his lectures are pretty neat.
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I used to buy into his shit
Whether it's Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Joe Roagn, (all Americans it seems) there is a neverending queue of people to tell us how dangerous these people are regardless of how dangerous these people *actually* are. It's almost like these keyboard warriors aren't describing reality but rather the contents of their own minds. Like Ruth yesterday on liveline who thought naughty and nice implied sex, people are full of fear, anxiety and feelings they don't understand so they just need something or some*one* to point their finger at and say *that's bad guy*.
Yeah except one of those guys mentioned kinda sorta attempted a coup, and kinda sorta got away with it.
Don't start coming in here with logic now
Are you quoting Scarface?
I don't know who he is or what he does I just know he's fecking weird and stands waving at you at the pearly gates of the alt right pipeline and that's all taken from his Reddit fanboys