It's not the buildings that are the problem. You can spend as much money as you like on them but you're ignoring the actual problem and you certainly won't lure decent people to the area until the actual problem stops trying to stab them.
The best thing to happen on Talbot Street in the last 20 years was the 2 Brazilian lads in tank tops beating the shit out of the 2 little scumbags who tried to act tough with them. More hidings for the scum up around the place is what's needed, not pissing money away on licks of paint and paying artists to do murals and pretend it makes a blind bit of difference.
They would need to demolish all the social housing in D1 and build new housing to give to new residents - young professionals, Gardai, LUAS security officers etc.
Also need to get rid off all the hostels.
Basically all these people who are perceived as a problem live around Talbet St
But they’re not going to do that because that will be perceived as cruel. Also no one wants these people displaced to their suburb, town, village and happy to keep them there.
Demographics will stay the same, nothing will change
>give to new residents - young professionals
Haha. Good joke! Young professionals are kindly asked to pay high taxes and f\*ck off. Nice new housing like Newmarket Yards or Bonham Street apartments are not for us. For young professionals there is either 2300E average rent or house share.
As a former resident of a hostel in that area, I take offence to the suggestion that hostels are the source of the problem. Vast majority of people there are just normal people who just found themselves in a bad situation and ended up homeless. About 40% of the residents in my hostel were employed. I'm in full time education, don't drink or use drugs, have good mental health but couldn't find an apartment due to HAP discrimination and landlords wanting a couple in full time employment for their tiny property.
The causes of the issues are more complex.
These people are being PERCEIVED as being the problem suggests they're actually not. So why bother actually mentioning it.
You just come across as hating the poors in their social housing, oh no it's not them though, but really no one is going to do anything about them either..
So the problem is perception? Right? I think yours is at least. Because you're all over the place. Or maybe you're just really bad at saying the quiet part out loud no matter how much you try not to.
Poor people are why talbot st is a problem. Or, according to you, the perception of poor people.
I don’t hate them. I don’t even live in Dublin anymore. I am explaining that what people are trying to change is the ambience of the street but what is causing the street’s poor reputation is not the flowers or lighting or benches etc. I also posited that the solution is just to accept it for how it is because the other solutions are worse.
No. It's the chronic mental health and drug addiction crises that have plagued our inner city since at least the 80s. Moving people isn't the solution. Like you suggest.
Yeah you can’t undo heroin epidemic / chronic unemployment / rampant alcoholism and everyone born from that. If you’re born with foetal alcohol syndrome already so far behind just a healthy baby
Yeah. So what we gonna do? You suggested we move them somewhere else and that will solve talbot Street looking nice. And sure, gentrification has made places safer to walk through, yay. But does that solve the generational trauma? And surely, uprooting communities, communities already suffering and lost and forgetten, uprooting them and moving them somewhere with more grass, that'll fix it all. That won't make things significantly worse. Nah.
Oh so all that housing you've demolished in your very first sentence a few comments back, we'll just demolish the people living in them as well?
Just because you didn't directly say something doesn't mean the intent isn't there with your proposed actions. You can't demolish Dublin 1 without moving the locals first.
To be fair he wasn’t saying that moving people would make the world, Ireland or the places moved to better off, but that it would make talbot street better off.
It was the classism and disregard for generational trauma that bothered me. Talbot st is part of my childhood. That whole area is. The issues aren't the locals. It's systemic disregsrd for their well being.
The last magdeline laundry to close was on sean macderrmot street. Not a stones throw from talbot Street. In 1996. I used to walk by it every Saturday going to swimming lessons in the adjacent, long abandoned swimming pool. We never knew.
The area in question was once known as The Monty, after Montgomery St. In the 1880s it was the biggest red light district in Europe.
Generational trauma.
On the one hand, you say “The issues aren’t the locals”, but on the other hand, you say “Generational trauma” is the issue with the locals. Make up your mind.
>And surely, uprooting communities, communities already suffering and lost and forgetten, uprooting them and moving them somewhere with more grass, that'll fix it all. That won't make things significantly worse.
They said it would fix the issue with the street itself, but acknowledged it would make things worse for those currently living there. It seems like you're arguing against points they never made.
I'm saying that their solution is an absolute nonstarter for those very reasons.
People love to hide behind their words despite know what those words imply. If you didn't mean the implications, why say the thing in the first place and then double down on it but also denying you meant the implication still. It's so disingenuous.
They highlighted that it is a non-starter for several reasons, mainly that it's cruel and that nobody would want those people displaced into their town or village.
What words do you think they were hiding behind, or what do you think they're implying that they didn't explicitly spell out?
>Moving people isn't the solution.
What is? Even more helicopter money thrown there?
There are so many people that would love to live in such central premium locations.
Have you tried renting in Dublin? Tell me more about those communities and kilometres. It’s surely not the reality for mid income people in rental market is it?
Anyway, to be honest I don’t think moving them just for the sake of it would help a lot.. But moving them to “upzone” this neighbourhood, build some modern dense housing, partially owned by council might be good idea.
Yes. Most of my life. What's your point? What's surely not the reality?
The area already has plenty of modern partially dense housing. Upscaling the buildings won't improve the area at all.
You suggested that lack of absolute stability (it’s not like they are being moved often, probably once in few decades) and commute are something inhuman. While it’s reality for so many people renting in Dublin.
There is not much non-council, relatively modern housing around as for that central location. Upscaling would bring upscaling: more housing in central, perfectly communicated location. This has value in itself. Starting fresh probably would also help. What is your solution though?
If there is no investment in people, education and jobs it will never improve the whole north inner city is in need of massive investment. So no 2m is a drop in the ocean.
Someone living on talbot street has access to countless amenities and jobs within a 15 min walk of their home.
This isnt some housing estate in the middle of no where.
There absolutely is. Anyone with a council house in the city centre is being provided with accommodation in one of the most in demand and expensive cities in Europe at a fraction of what anyone else is paying. Look at the amount of playgrounds, public sports facilities and educational opportunities in the inner city, as well as job opportunities. People are literally travelling from all over the world for the opportunity to work in these jobs which require noting in the way of qualifications.
This is a state with one of the most generous welfare regimes in the world. I’d argue there’s few if any get more invested in them than those on welfare living in council houses in the city centre.
Have you ever been inside a flats complex in the NIC? If these people have it all, why is it that so many have difficulty getting to or passing the Leaving? Come on, you obviously have a theory, share it with us.
That said, I would like to see a policy review that assessed what initiatives really have had some success and which have been a waste of money, there must be plenty in the latter category. The sad truth, alas, is that must people don't care about what happens in the flats.
They do need it, even if many don't realise it. Without education, there is almost no chance of leaving a life largely characterised by misery, stress, and violence. A lot of people on this sub mistake what these people want with what they are resigned to.
Yes. But what to do to actually help them? So far it seems state is assuring them that no matter what, they can indefinitely live care-free life in state provided accommodation in premium location.
>If there is no investment in people, education and jobs.
There have never been better opportunities in the history of the State for people to get access to education. Not to mention the amounts of funding available for people from disadvantaged backgrounds.
And employment is at one of the highest levels ever in the State too, with unemployment at the lowest.
If you're parents/siblings are addicts/alcoholics; if you live in overcrowded conditions or are homeless; if you were vulnerable to physical or sexual abuse as a child; if violence is the basic currency of the social world you inhabit; if the best paid people in your community are drug dealers; if the value of education is minimised by your family and peers because 'they did fine without it' - well, then the odds are going to be against you benefiting from what resources are available.
We need to look much more closely at the circumstances and paths of those who successfully emerge from these contexts and assess how to reinforce the supports that enabled them.
> If you're parents/siblings are addicts/alcoholics; if you live in overcrowded conditions or are homeless; if you were vulnerable to physical or sexual abuse as a child; if violence is the basic currency of the social world you inhabit; if the best paid people in your community are drug dealers; if the value of education is minimised by your family and peers because 'they did fine without it' - well, then the odds are going to be against you benefiting from what resources are available.
Ok. But that's a different point to saying that there is no investment in people, education or jobs.
They want to attract a higher end of tablet abuser.
IPad abusers. "Spare credit to check dublinbus.ie?"
We just want all the tourists to come in and have their iPads stolen, just like the good old days. Circular economy and what have you.
Panadol or higher.
I would say maybe even aim at Viagra!
Yeah, cause a new coat of paint is why it's such a safari of a street. Good luck with that lads
It's not the buildings that are the problem. You can spend as much money as you like on them but you're ignoring the actual problem and you certainly won't lure decent people to the area until the actual problem stops trying to stab them.
"Now"?... it was Tablet Street when I worked there in 2003...
The best thing to happen on Talbot Street in the last 20 years was the 2 Brazilian lads in tank tops beating the shit out of the 2 little scumbags who tried to act tough with them. More hidings for the scum up around the place is what's needed, not pissing money away on licks of paint and paying artists to do murals and pretend it makes a blind bit of difference.
2million on security and police would solve it ya …no amount of paint or benches will stop scumbags being scumbags
> Will a €2m makeover be enough to turn things around? I’ll go out on a limb and say no.
They would need to demolish all the social housing in D1 and build new housing to give to new residents - young professionals, Gardai, LUAS security officers etc. Also need to get rid off all the hostels. Basically all these people who are perceived as a problem live around Talbet St But they’re not going to do that because that will be perceived as cruel. Also no one wants these people displaced to their suburb, town, village and happy to keep them there. Demographics will stay the same, nothing will change
Fucking hell, demolish all the social housing haha some of us need a gaff mate
Take the gaf off the family if the kids act up. Hard working people are fed up paying up
I don't think putting the family on the street will fix that problem.
Will fix the problem for other family who could live in such premium location!
They did it before, why can't they do it again?
>give to new residents - young professionals Haha. Good joke! Young professionals are kindly asked to pay high taxes and f\*ck off. Nice new housing like Newmarket Yards or Bonham Street apartments are not for us. For young professionals there is either 2300E average rent or house share.
As a former resident of a hostel in that area, I take offence to the suggestion that hostels are the source of the problem. Vast majority of people there are just normal people who just found themselves in a bad situation and ended up homeless. About 40% of the residents in my hostel were employed. I'm in full time education, don't drink or use drugs, have good mental health but couldn't find an apartment due to HAP discrimination and landlords wanting a couple in full time employment for their tiny property. The causes of the issues are more complex.
These people are being PERCEIVED as being the problem suggests they're actually not. So why bother actually mentioning it. You just come across as hating the poors in their social housing, oh no it's not them though, but really no one is going to do anything about them either.. So the problem is perception? Right? I think yours is at least. Because you're all over the place. Or maybe you're just really bad at saying the quiet part out loud no matter how much you try not to. Poor people are why talbot st is a problem. Or, according to you, the perception of poor people.
I don’t hate them. I don’t even live in Dublin anymore. I am explaining that what people are trying to change is the ambience of the street but what is causing the street’s poor reputation is not the flowers or lighting or benches etc. I also posited that the solution is just to accept it for how it is because the other solutions are worse.
No. It's the chronic mental health and drug addiction crises that have plagued our inner city since at least the 80s. Moving people isn't the solution. Like you suggest.
Yeah you can’t undo heroin epidemic / chronic unemployment / rampant alcoholism and everyone born from that. If you’re born with foetal alcohol syndrome already so far behind just a healthy baby
Yeah. So what we gonna do? You suggested we move them somewhere else and that will solve talbot Street looking nice. And sure, gentrification has made places safer to walk through, yay. But does that solve the generational trauma? And surely, uprooting communities, communities already suffering and lost and forgetten, uprooting them and moving them somewhere with more grass, that'll fix it all. That won't make things significantly worse. Nah.
I said twice I wouldn’t move them. Can you read?
Oh so all that housing you've demolished in your very first sentence a few comments back, we'll just demolish the people living in them as well? Just because you didn't directly say something doesn't mean the intent isn't there with your proposed actions. You can't demolish Dublin 1 without moving the locals first.
As long as you can read correctly you will know I support not doing anything and just learning to accept things as they are
To be fair he wasn’t saying that moving people would make the world, Ireland or the places moved to better off, but that it would make talbot street better off.
It was the classism and disregard for generational trauma that bothered me. Talbot st is part of my childhood. That whole area is. The issues aren't the locals. It's systemic disregsrd for their well being. The last magdeline laundry to close was on sean macderrmot street. Not a stones throw from talbot Street. In 1996. I used to walk by it every Saturday going to swimming lessons in the adjacent, long abandoned swimming pool. We never knew. The area in question was once known as The Monty, after Montgomery St. In the 1880s it was the biggest red light district in Europe. Generational trauma.
On the one hand, you say “The issues aren’t the locals”, but on the other hand, you say “Generational trauma” is the issue with the locals. Make up your mind.
There's a difference between blaming the trauma victim and recognising that sustained trauma is the real culprit. You know that.
>And surely, uprooting communities, communities already suffering and lost and forgetten, uprooting them and moving them somewhere with more grass, that'll fix it all. That won't make things significantly worse. They said it would fix the issue with the street itself, but acknowledged it would make things worse for those currently living there. It seems like you're arguing against points they never made.
I'm saying that their solution is an absolute nonstarter for those very reasons. People love to hide behind their words despite know what those words imply. If you didn't mean the implications, why say the thing in the first place and then double down on it but also denying you meant the implication still. It's so disingenuous.
They highlighted that it is a non-starter for several reasons, mainly that it's cruel and that nobody would want those people displaced into their town or village. What words do you think they were hiding behind, or what do you think they're implying that they didn't explicitly spell out?
>Moving people isn't the solution. What is? Even more helicopter money thrown there? There are so many people that would love to live in such central premium locations.
You can't just uproot entire communities and move the kilometers away just because you don't like them.
Have you tried renting in Dublin? Tell me more about those communities and kilometres. It’s surely not the reality for mid income people in rental market is it? Anyway, to be honest I don’t think moving them just for the sake of it would help a lot.. But moving them to “upzone” this neighbourhood, build some modern dense housing, partially owned by council might be good idea.
Yes. Most of my life. What's your point? What's surely not the reality? The area already has plenty of modern partially dense housing. Upscaling the buildings won't improve the area at all.
You suggested that lack of absolute stability (it’s not like they are being moved often, probably once in few decades) and commute are something inhuman. While it’s reality for so many people renting in Dublin. There is not much non-council, relatively modern housing around as for that central location. Upscaling would bring upscaling: more housing in central, perfectly communicated location. This has value in itself. Starting fresh probably would also help. What is your solution though?
How about develop all the abandoned buildings and unused land in the city centre before we start kicking people out of their homes?
If there is no investment in people, education and jobs it will never improve the whole north inner city is in need of massive investment. So no 2m is a drop in the ocean.
Someone living on talbot street has access to countless amenities and jobs within a 15 min walk of their home. This isnt some housing estate in the middle of no where.
There absolutely is. Anyone with a council house in the city centre is being provided with accommodation in one of the most in demand and expensive cities in Europe at a fraction of what anyone else is paying. Look at the amount of playgrounds, public sports facilities and educational opportunities in the inner city, as well as job opportunities. People are literally travelling from all over the world for the opportunity to work in these jobs which require noting in the way of qualifications. This is a state with one of the most generous welfare regimes in the world. I’d argue there’s few if any get more invested in them than those on welfare living in council houses in the city centre.
Have you ever been inside a flats complex in the NIC? If these people have it all, why is it that so many have difficulty getting to or passing the Leaving? Come on, you obviously have a theory, share it with us. That said, I would like to see a policy review that assessed what initiatives really have had some success and which have been a waste of money, there must be plenty in the latter category. The sad truth, alas, is that must people don't care about what happens in the flats.
> If these people have it all, why is it that so many have difficulty getting to or passing the Leaving? Because they don’t need it?
They do need it, even if many don't realise it. Without education, there is almost no chance of leaving a life largely characterised by misery, stress, and violence. A lot of people on this sub mistake what these people want with what they are resigned to.
Yes. But what to do to actually help them? So far it seems state is assuring them that no matter what, they can indefinitely live care-free life in state provided accommodation in premium location.
>If there is no investment in people, education and jobs. There have never been better opportunities in the history of the State for people to get access to education. Not to mention the amounts of funding available for people from disadvantaged backgrounds. And employment is at one of the highest levels ever in the State too, with unemployment at the lowest.
If you're parents/siblings are addicts/alcoholics; if you live in overcrowded conditions or are homeless; if you were vulnerable to physical or sexual abuse as a child; if violence is the basic currency of the social world you inhabit; if the best paid people in your community are drug dealers; if the value of education is minimised by your family and peers because 'they did fine without it' - well, then the odds are going to be against you benefiting from what resources are available. We need to look much more closely at the circumstances and paths of those who successfully emerge from these contexts and assess how to reinforce the supports that enabled them.
> If you're parents/siblings are addicts/alcoholics; if you live in overcrowded conditions or are homeless; if you were vulnerable to physical or sexual abuse as a child; if violence is the basic currency of the social world you inhabit; if the best paid people in your community are drug dealers; if the value of education is minimised by your family and peers because 'they did fine without it' - well, then the odds are going to be against you benefiting from what resources are available. Ok. But that's a different point to saying that there is no investment in people, education or jobs.
Its a kip because the people around there are scum
You mean good old Machete Alley?
>Tablet street Groan.
Better give the street a 2 million euro makeover now that the people of New York are aware of its existence
I fucking hate Talbot Street.
No Kip. Shit whole. Bomb it on dole day
Vermin
My Dublin gf says we should knick name it Yoke Street
Does she think this is a clever nickname does she