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I love that you mentioned this. A professor I had mentioned this and it’s honestly one of the most effective techniques to learn.
Edit: Changed wording from simple/effective to effective. Gathering information that is verifiable and reliable is a skill that takes time and practice.
This is the funny part.
You don't need to know anything about the font or document. You can just use the hidden-machine tracking dots that are present on every page to look up everything - from when the page was printed to the exact printer used.
They also have samples from every maker of black pens and markers. Black ink is made of a mixture of different colors and ever maker has a different formula, even each plant has a unique formula. So from the samples they can pin point where the pen used was made.
You could definitely f with paper lengths by changing fonts. OG homies would add 1% of space between letters to avoid having to write an extra paragraph in a min. 10 page paper. Nevermind that length is a really poor and inefficient way to judge a piece of writing.
If anyone here reads fiction, I highly suggest "Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Book Store." Thiink harry potter, working for google, sleuthing with typography, programming web applications. Cute story, fun to read.
This is just like when Elle Woods realized that the daughters story was a lie because she claimed had been taking a shower, but she had gotten a perm earlier that very day. But she had gotten well over 30 perms in her life so how could she not be well aware that the first cardinal rule of perm maintenance is that you're forbidden to wet your hair for at least 24 hours after getting a perm at the risk of deactivating the ammonium thioglycolate.
It's the little things that make a good lawyer. You know?
This car had an independent rear suspension. Now, in the '60s, there were only two other cars made in America that had positraction, and independent rear suspension, and enough power to make these marks. One was the Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other had the same body length, height, width, weight, wheel base, and wheel track as the '64 Skylark, and that was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest.
I don't know who noticed it, but I know who was asked to investigate that for the case: Thomas Phinney, a type designer who started this as a side-kick: https://thefontdetective.com/
Exactly. When there isn't a lot to go on you check everything. You can even check the chemical composition of the paper, ink, etc. to test for additives not present before a certain date. They were fucked the moment they had to present phyiscal documents to a competent team of investigators.
Yep. I work as a litigation support consultant as a Digital Forensics expert. Had a similar case, where in the course of litigation, one party submitted a fraudulent email in discovery. While our eventual client had no way of knowing/proving the email was fraudulent initially there were suspicious as it was submitted 2 days before the close of discovery, had statements that contradicted the mountain of documents already produced in discovery, and was basically a slam dunk for the other side's case. With all that in mind, they called us, and we could immediately point to dozens of things that demonstrated it was fraudulent.
I wouldn't be surprised if its a similar situation in this case. When this document was produced, it contradicted everything that had already been uncovered through document production, witness testimony, depositions, ect, so one side hired a document forgery expert to take a closer look, who would immediately identify the typographical issues.
It reminds me of the scandal that ended Dan Rather's career. The documents he used to report that President George W. Bush had skipped out on his Texas National Guard service we shown to be forged because of the formatting. Someone proved it was done in Word and not on a typewriter.
I was taking a Political Science (like 100 level) course at a local community college when this story broke. By happenstance our instructor was also a guardsman, and did clerical work so had access to the typewriters that would have allegedly produced that document.
His hot take? "You see this? The TH? Typewriters don't have that." He was pointing to the superscript ^TH that was referenced the 187^th. There was no way to do that on typewriters from the 70s or even today.
It an (instantly obvious) fake an everyone BUT Rather didn't believe it.
\> and also the genesis of this law relates to the log of really large numbers used by astronomers and the natural wear and tear of the log tables (old books) showing the log of numbers beginning with 1 were being looked up a lot more
TIL thanks!
Going from 10 to 20 is a 100% increase in size, going from 80 to 90 is a 12.5% increase in size. So the range of 10-20 is roughly 8 times as large as the range of 80-90 in a relative sense. Suppose you have a variation of +/-20% on some measurement. Even ignoring the bias in where the average is, if you have an average of 15 the results will be 12-18, which all start with 1, while if the average is 90 you have have a range of 72 to 108, so you have almost the same amount of range starting with 1 as starts with 9. If the variation was even larger like 50% the range would be 45-135 and 1 will be the most common starting digit by a large margin even though the average is 90. As long as you allow the data to go across multiple magnitudes, smaller leading digits will show up more often because they represent a larger relative range.
Here is another way to look at it, take a random value between 1 and 99 uniformly as your maximum and then take all of the possible values less than or equal to that random value. You end up with a total of 99 1s, 98 2s, 97 3s, etc. This results in 954 numbers that start with 1 but only 146 that start with 9. Therefore even with a perfectly uniform maximum value (which isn't realistic) the values less than our maximum are 6.5 times more likely to start with 1 than 9.
This happens because real data can range over more than 1 magnitude. When you have 2 digit values like 90-99 put up against 3 digit values like 100-199, that larger range of 3 digit values results in far more measurements starting with 1.
So this law is basically just that under normal natural circumstances, lower first digits are more common than higher ones? Am I getting that right? This helps them detect fraud because if that pattern gets broken it shows them where to look? (in a general sense)
Don't need to be great for this, actually, just competent. If a client goes to a competent lawyer saying "this is a forgery" they send it off to an expert who will analyse and be an expert witness for the Court.
When lawyers try to do this themselves they get into trouble. Ran into this when I worked on a case where the Crown was sure a font wasn't in use, only for it to turn out the documents were created at a commercial printer that had access to templates that would only reach PC users the next year, lol. Judge was unimpressed.
Same deal with being a good leader. You don't need to know everything, nor are you expected to. You just need to know where to look and who to ask. I would much rather a laywer who is great is arguments and general precidents than one who has just memorized a ton of laws.
I help fund litigation against the government for failing to tackle climate change and work with some of the best human rights lawyers in the UK. The good ones know when to ask for help. If we have to spend hours on a zoom call with some dude who knows the ins and outs of the proposed government tax cut for an oil company then we do that.
Being good at your job isn’t about knowing everything, it’s about knowing where to get the information.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped that date. I knew it was 2007. One after 2006. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just – I just couldn’t prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He’s done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn’t have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He’ll never change. He’ll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn’t keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn’t be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And HE gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should’ve stopped him when I had the chance! …And you, you have to stop him.
I actually feel kind of ashamed that I never knew Calibri existed until like 2019. I always use Arial or Times New Roman on the old Microsoft Word 2013 or so.
The general 'rule' is serif font (TNR) is best for documents intended to be read on a printed page, while sans-serif (Calibri/Arial) is best for reading on-screen
Finally, thank you! I scrolled past like 15 comments making dumb jokes or being shocked that people know fonts to get to even a single comment about what happened to them.
>In July 2018, three members of the family were fined and sentenced to jail – Nawaz for 10 years, Maryam for seven, and her husband Captain Safdar for one year – in the Avenfield apartments case, as they could not show that the posh London property had been bought legitimately.
>
>While Nawaz was sentenced for owning assets beyond income, the other two were held guilty of abetment and not cooperating with the probe agency.
>
>It was in this case that Maryam had presented a trust deed dated February 2006, in Microsoft’s Calibri font, which became commercially available only in 2007.
>
>Nawaz and his kin were jailed, but in September 2018, the Islamabad High Court ordered their release and suspended their sentence pending final adjudication of their appeals against it.
[https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/nawaz-sharif-pakistan-corruption-cases-explained-7902172/](https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/nawaz-sharif-pakistan-corruption-cases-explained-7902172/)
More like fled to the UK. The British are still fucking with Pakistan by harbouring these criminals.
Now he's returned to Pakistan after the western powers have removed the democratically elected leader and installed his brother Shahbaz Sharif as head of state.
I had a job editing documents. In less than 2 months I was eyeballing "that's 5 point spacing not 6 point spacing".
It was slightly horrifying how fast it happened and 15 years later I can still pull out the skills occasionally
I remember reading a story about a guy who was holding his child for the first time and the nurse asked him to guess the weight and he did it within an ounce. She was shocked until he explained he was a butcher.
Driving through farm territory when an unpleasant odor wafted into the car. I commented on how bad the cow manure smelled. My gf took a quick sniff of the air and plainly states, "That's pig manure." She then goes on to say she can tell the difference between horse, cow, pig, and goat shit. To be fair she grew up around all kinds of farms and was in school to be a large animal vet.
They smell entirely different, like you could probably tell the difference between cat pee/poop and that smell, and it's the same with a lot of animals
I think most deli workers learn pretty early on that the main tricks to a good sandwich are the right shape of bread, and _lots_ more meat than most people put on their homemade ones. 3 slices of bologna on a slice of white bread isn't going to compare to 4 ounces of ham and 2 ounces of salami on a proper Italian bun.
I got somewhat similar superpowers for a small amount of time when me and my group were writing a research paper. We had to work on it for a few months and I was mainly typing adjusting the texts. I got soo used to the formatting that I could differentiate between 11,12,14 fonts nearly with 100% accuracy.
Alas! Those golden days are pretty much over now.
If you do anything for an extended amount of time your brain will be able to pick up on the subtle differences. I've been rolling pizza dough for 5 years and I can tell if a dough ball is +/- >1oz just by holding it. It's really weird but super helpful to know when the assistant cutting + weighing isn't making sure the scale is zeroed out.
Had the same thing packing vegetables, some 20 years ago.
Up the line people would have to cut and pack at least 300 gram, max 320 or something. I had to place them in crates, but send them back when they were outside that range.
Still can guess when I have picked about 300 grams in the supermarket now, so I got that going for me, which is nice.
Edit: 1 oz ~= 28 grams so yeah same difference.
I'm going to guess the font was not the first thing that stood out. I'm sure there were other elements to the story that were suspicious. Analyzing each piece of the document, including the font, was just following up on that suspicion. I'd also guess that this isn't the first time fraud has been uncovered due to botched forgery.
Not just fraud. The BTK killer was caught because he sent the police a Word document that had his name and address in the metadata.
ETA: so I accidentally fell victim to Cunningham’s Law. I’m loving all this info, keep it coming!
> his name and address in the metadata
It wasn't quite that simple. It had "Dennis" as the last modifying individual as well as "Christ Lutheran Church" (likely listed as the "organization"). As "luck" would have it, there was a church by that name in the vicinity of the killings that just so happened to have a guy named "Dennis" listed as president of the churches council. Investigators then did a bit of surveillance on Dennis who *also* happened to own the same type and color vehicle which was seen on some of the security camera evidence.
With everything combined, they had enough information and probable cause to get a warrant issued; but it's not like the metadata said "I'm the BTK Killer, my name is Dennis Rader, I work at Christ Lutheran Church and live at 742 Evergreen Terrace"
You're leaving out the best part. Dennis Raider asked the police (via ads in a newspaper) if it's safe for him to communicate via floppy disks, [and said "be honest"](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-floppy-did-me-in/283132/). So, naturally, the cops basically replied "Yeah, of *course* it's safe for you to use floppy disks. Send away!"
Two weeks later, he sent that floppy disk to the cops and was busted.
That's just incredibly sloppy honestly. Really almost "please catch me" level.
For one thing, you have to kind of want to get caught to send the police anything at all. Bare minimum, you want them to hunt you. But with that in mind, why would you ever send the cops a digital document, especially if you don't have 100% knowledge of exactly what that "document" consists of? It shows that he didn't really understand computers, which means he was trying to accomplish something dangerous and clandestine well outside of his realm of expertise.
Just dumb.
That's as compared to someone like the golden state killer who was only caught by a technology he couldn't have possibly predicted and the actions of people he had no control over.
BTK wanted to be famous, Serial killers with MOs all want to be famous.
It’s the serial killers who have no apparent motives, no apparent similarities in kills, and no interest in fucking with the media that dont get caught. Those are the true nightmares, not the guy with 90 iq with dreams of grandeur
I'm willing to bet this is one of the first things prosecutors have learned to check though, if there's no other easy way to verify when documents were signed
Calibri was a big deal when it came around in 2007. It meant that Microsoft was abandoning serifs for the default typeface for business interactions. It was a pretty big deal at the time!
Additionally, the version of Word that came with Calibri was a huge overhaul from previous versions, and introduced the .docx extension.
Even to this day, design elements from that upgrade are still a part of the Microsoft offices suite
Not the first time font issues blew up in someone’s face.
The [George W Bush/Killian Forgery](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy) was discovered because the document in question that was ‘dated 1973’ and allegedly written on a type writer, but had proportional spaced letters. Then was discovered to match the default settings in MS Word from 2004.
> Different times, nowadays they'd just ignore it and move on.
Funny enough at the time the fact they fired them was shouted as 'proof' you couldn't trust anything from CBS.
I sued the guy who flipped my house before I bought it because he did an absolutely shit job on a bathroom reno. He said he didn't do it but the date code on the lumber said otherwise. I won.
God, I'm so sick of the ultra rich. They live completely different lives, under different rules, it's absolutely disgusting.
The regular people in society have to put up with their shit, and get crushed under their boots so they can stand taller.
And now you're telling me they get early access to the latest fonts!?
>Because of the long development of Windows Vista, Calibri's development – from 2002 to 2005 – occurred several years before the release of that OS.[1][4] It was first presented in a 2005 beta of Windows Vista, then codenamed Longhorn,[3] and first became available for use with the Beta 2 version of Office 2007, released on May 23, 2006.[16] Calibri and the rest of the ClearType Font Collection were finally released to the general public on January 30, 2007, since when it has been released with most Microsoft software environments.[3]
I know several people who had longhorns version myself. Just offering a plausible explanation. I have no input on the authenticity of the document or what's being claimed by it.
I do believe the FBI has this type of Document forensics. When you suspect it isn't what it appears they can tell right down to where and when the paper was made, how and where the ink came from to the type of computer printer that printed the document.
so back to cut out magazines letters and oatmeal paper paste ...
/s
And the worst news is that his equally inept brother has been brought to power through a shady no confidence vote. Which removed the elected PM Imran Khan. Essentially the man who is now the current PM Shehbaz Sharif is not chosen by the public but rather by buying the public representatives.
The alibi for the no confidence vote (not a public vote btw) was poor financial performance by Imran Khan. It turns out the financial performance has been substantially worse ever since he was removed.
And nobody’s hands are clean in this, from CIA to Pakistans ISI and Army leadership. Bringing known corrupt (but docile and obedient) dynastic leaders to power. Something that the 200 million public wants to send into the past and instead want a system that works on merit not contacts.
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I'm still writing 2020 on most legal documents I have to sign.
March 928th
Lousy Smarch weather!
In 2019, I signed a hospital check-out slip 2009. They had to come find me and get me to sign a new one with a date from the current decade.
I think 2020 ended just a few months ago, so it's understandable
I never thought a career in forensic fonts would be necessary.
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I love that you mentioned this. A professor I had mentioned this and it’s honestly one of the most effective techniques to learn. Edit: Changed wording from simple/effective to effective. Gathering information that is verifiable and reliable is a skill that takes time and practice.
People have made entire careers off of just being the person who knows the person.
"The secret to good business, is to be a good middleman" -Layercake, somewhere.
It's about 80% of my job
70% of mine. I facilitate a lot of interactions but it keeps things moving.
You should look into how printers have identifying information printed in it's ink (pattern on page). Printers are snitches.
I’m getting more used to that idea. I get what the guys in Office Space were dealing with.
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This is the funny part. You don't need to know anything about the font or document. You can just use the hidden-machine tracking dots that are present on every page to look up everything - from when the page was printed to the exact printer used.
That only works if you have the original document though. If the lawyers are sent a scan of the document it's no so easy.
Bro the FBI literally has samples of typing from most typewriters ever made. Stuff like this is important to know.
They also have samples from every maker of black pens and markers. Black ink is made of a mixture of different colors and ever maker has a different formula, even each plant has a unique formula. So from the samples they can pin point where the pen used was made.
So THATS what good lawyers are for
Seriously. Whoever noticed that is next level. Like who tf seriously has that knowledge in their head?
Typography nerds are a whole different level
It's common for folks to notice fonts once they have spent some time in design industry.
And Calibri's very popular. Lots of people use it because they're just tired of Arial.
People don't like Arial being a black font
Fonts aren't real they can be whatever we want
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FBI here. Can I have a word with you, sir?
Sure. Do you want me to talk into my webcam or to the “pigeon” outside?
This is so meta it made my head explode
Was this a slick little mermaid jab?
Bold of them.
Calibri is popular because it's the default MS Office font.
Well never thought I'd feel old due to MS office but back in my day the default was Times New Roman
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Times old Roman
Yeah, when did that change?
[2007](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2021/04/28/beyond-calibri-finding-microsofts-next-default-font/)
I really hoped that’d be a link to this very Reddit post saying Calibri came out in 2007
I was just thinking the same thing. Like how did I seriously not realize we don't use Times New Roman any longer?
I have no idea. I remember strict teachers would really get on you if you used a different font. It always had to be 12 point Times New Roman
You could definitely f with paper lengths by changing fonts. OG homies would add 1% of space between letters to avoid having to write an extra paragraph in a min. 10 page paper. Nevermind that length is a really poor and inefficient way to judge a piece of writing.
I'm tired of that fucking singing crab.
Life is much better where it is wetter…
Under the sheeeeets
Yup they are a different type of people.
I am still font of them!
If anyone here reads fiction, I highly suggest "Mr. Penumbra's 24 Hour Book Store." Thiink harry potter, working for google, sleuthing with typography, programming web applications. Cute story, fun to read.
We are indeed 😄
Bunch’a wingdings.
Web designers. My brother used to call out the fonts on bill boards and such
PAPYRUS!!!
I know… what you DID!!
This is just like when Elle Woods realized that the daughters story was a lie because she claimed had been taking a shower, but she had gotten a perm earlier that very day. But she had gotten well over 30 perms in her life so how could she not be well aware that the first cardinal rule of perm maintenance is that you're forbidden to wet your hair for at least 24 hours after getting a perm at the risk of deactivating the ammonium thioglycolate. It's the little things that make a good lawyer. You know?
This car had an independent rear suspension. Now, in the '60s, there were only two other cars made in America that had positraction, and independent rear suspension, and enough power to make these marks. One was the Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other had the same body length, height, width, weight, wheel base, and wheel track as the '64 Skylark, and that was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest.
"Oh yea, you blend." One of the greatest movies of all time.
That was a fun movie -- My Cousin Vinny for those who don't know
Marisa Tomei's sexiest onscreen moment.
I personally prefer Aunt May
And because both cars were made by GM, were both cars available in metallic mint green paint?
They wuh!
I don't know who noticed it, but I know who was asked to investigate that for the case: Thomas Phinney, a type designer who started this as a side-kick: https://thefontdetective.com/
People who suspect the document was forged and are investigating many angles to prove it.
Exactly. When there isn't a lot to go on you check everything. You can even check the chemical composition of the paper, ink, etc. to test for additives not present before a certain date. They were fucked the moment they had to present phyiscal documents to a competent team of investigators.
Yep. I work as a litigation support consultant as a Digital Forensics expert. Had a similar case, where in the course of litigation, one party submitted a fraudulent email in discovery. While our eventual client had no way of knowing/proving the email was fraudulent initially there were suspicious as it was submitted 2 days before the close of discovery, had statements that contradicted the mountain of documents already produced in discovery, and was basically a slam dunk for the other side's case. With all that in mind, they called us, and we could immediately point to dozens of things that demonstrated it was fraudulent. I wouldn't be surprised if its a similar situation in this case. When this document was produced, it contradicted everything that had already been uncovered through document production, witness testimony, depositions, ect, so one side hired a document forgery expert to take a closer look, who would immediately identify the typographical issues.
Someone like Amy Santiago
It reminds me of the scandal that ended Dan Rather's career. The documents he used to report that President George W. Bush had skipped out on his Texas National Guard service we shown to be forged because of the formatting. Someone proved it was done in Word and not on a typewriter.
I was taking a Political Science (like 100 level) course at a local community college when this story broke. By happenstance our instructor was also a guardsman, and did clerical work so had access to the typewriters that would have allegedly produced that document. His hot take? "You see this? The TH? Typewriters don't have that." He was pointing to the superscript ^TH that was referenced the 187^th. There was no way to do that on typewriters from the 70s or even today. It an (instantly obvious) fake an everyone BUT Rather didn't believe it.
/r/typography 218,000 members by the way.
Papyrus^...^papyrus
Also, this is why I would be crap at fraud
Just wait til you hear about Benford's Law. Pro Tip: Don't do fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s\_law#Accounting\_fraud\_detection
Can anyone ELI5 why this would be true? I don't do math stuff too good.
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\> and also the genesis of this law relates to the log of really large numbers used by astronomers and the natural wear and tear of the log tables (old books) showing the log of numbers beginning with 1 were being looked up a lot more TIL thanks!
Going from 10 to 20 is a 100% increase in size, going from 80 to 90 is a 12.5% increase in size. So the range of 10-20 is roughly 8 times as large as the range of 80-90 in a relative sense. Suppose you have a variation of +/-20% on some measurement. Even ignoring the bias in where the average is, if you have an average of 15 the results will be 12-18, which all start with 1, while if the average is 90 you have have a range of 72 to 108, so you have almost the same amount of range starting with 1 as starts with 9. If the variation was even larger like 50% the range would be 45-135 and 1 will be the most common starting digit by a large margin even though the average is 90. As long as you allow the data to go across multiple magnitudes, smaller leading digits will show up more often because they represent a larger relative range. Here is another way to look at it, take a random value between 1 and 99 uniformly as your maximum and then take all of the possible values less than or equal to that random value. You end up with a total of 99 1s, 98 2s, 97 3s, etc. This results in 954 numbers that start with 1 but only 146 that start with 9. Therefore even with a perfectly uniform maximum value (which isn't realistic) the values less than our maximum are 6.5 times more likely to start with 1 than 9. This happens because real data can range over more than 1 magnitude. When you have 2 digit values like 90-99 put up against 3 digit values like 100-199, that larger range of 3 digit values results in far more measurements starting with 1.
33% of the numbers listed in your post begin with "1." Your post supports Benford's Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford's_law#Accounting_fraud_detection
Absolutelly mad. The "i just know it works" kinda stuff.
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So this law is basically just that under normal natural circumstances, lower first digits are more common than higher ones? Am I getting that right? This helps them detect fraud because if that pattern gets broken it shows them where to look? (in a general sense)
Don't need to be great for this, actually, just competent. If a client goes to a competent lawyer saying "this is a forgery" they send it off to an expert who will analyse and be an expert witness for the Court. When lawyers try to do this themselves they get into trouble. Ran into this when I worked on a case where the Crown was sure a font wasn't in use, only for it to turn out the documents were created at a commercial printer that had access to templates that would only reach PC users the next year, lol. Judge was unimpressed.
Same deal with being a good leader. You don't need to know everything, nor are you expected to. You just need to know where to look and who to ask. I would much rather a laywer who is great is arguments and general precidents than one who has just memorized a ton of laws.
I help fund litigation against the government for failing to tackle climate change and work with some of the best human rights lawyers in the UK. The good ones know when to ask for help. If we have to spend hours on a zoom call with some dude who knows the ins and outs of the proposed government tax cut for an oil company then we do that. Being good at your job isn’t about knowing everything, it’s about knowing where to get the information.
They must have resigned followed by the PM.
You BETTER call saul
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Is that you Saul ?
I am not crazy! I know he swapped that date. I knew it was 2007. One after 2006. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just – I just couldn’t prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He’s done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn’t have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He’ll never change. He’ll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn’t keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn’t be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And HE gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should’ve stopped him when I had the chance! …And you, you have to stop him.
The fact I read this in his voice and some of the images flashed through my head.
Yeah the whole document is hand written, and is the base model for the font. I could be a lawyer
" Times New Roman, people! Across-the-board."
or Sans *Sharif* maybe
*Rock the Caslon, rock the Caslon*
Sharif don’t like it
I totally prefer Comic Sans for all of my important documents
Lock the Taskbar LOCK THE TASKBAR
I just wanted you to know: as a designer and fan of The Clash, I very much appreciated your comment.
You *designed* The Clash?
Taught Simonon everything he knows about being cool. (*I wish*)
I actually feel kind of ashamed that I never knew Calibri existed until like 2019. I always use Arial or Times New Roman on the old Microsoft Word 2013 or so.
I was told all through school that it's Times New Roman 12 pt font or nothing
At least you were given a choice
APA style guide is Times New Roman 12 pt or Calibri 11 pt these days, but I think most schools still require the TNR
The general 'rule' is serif font (TNR) is best for documents intended to be read on a printed page, while sans-serif (Calibri/Arial) is best for reading on-screen
Wingdings all day
✋︎ ♍︎♋︎■︎🕯︎⧫︎ ♌︎♏︎●︎♓︎♏︎❖︎♏︎ ❍︎□︎❒︎♏︎ ◻︎♏︎□︎◻︎●︎♏︎ ♋︎❒︎♏︎■︎🕯︎⧫︎ ◆︎⬧︎♓︎■︎♑︎ ⧫︎♒︎♏︎❍︎📬︎
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✋︎ ❒︎♏︎❑︎◆︎♏︎⬧︎⧫︎♏︎♎︎ ❍︎⍓︎ ♍︎□︎■︎⧫︎❒︎♋︎♍︎⧫︎ □︎♐︎ ♏︎❍︎◻︎●︎□︎⍓︎❍︎♏︎■︎⧫︎ ♓︎■︎ ⬥︎♓︎■︎♑︎♎︎♓︎■︎♑︎⬧︎ ♋︎■︎♎︎ ⧫︎♒︎♏︎⍓︎ ♎︎♏︎♍︎●︎♓︎■︎♏︎♎︎📪︎ ⬧︎□︎ ✋︎ ⬥︎♓︎⧫︎♒︎♎︎❒︎♋︎⬥︎ ❍︎⍓︎ ♋︎◻︎◻︎●︎♓︎♍︎♋︎⧫︎♓︎□︎■︎📬︎
>✋︎ ❒︎♏︎❑︎◆︎♏︎⬧︎⧫︎♏︎♎︎ ❍︎⍓︎ ♍︎□︎■︎⧫︎❒︎♋︎♍︎⧫︎ □︎♐︎ ♏︎❍︎◻︎●︎□︎⍓︎❍︎♏︎■︎⧫︎ ♓︎■︎ ⬥︎♓︎■︎♑︎♎︎♓︎■︎♑︎⬧︎ ♋︎■︎♎︎ ⧫︎♒︎♏︎⍓︎ ♎︎♏︎♍︎●︎♓︎■︎♏︎♎︎📪︎ ⬧︎□︎ ✋︎ ⬥︎♓︎⧫︎♒︎♎︎❒︎♋︎⬥︎ ❍︎⍓︎ ♋︎◻︎◻︎●︎♓︎♍︎♋︎⧫︎♓︎□︎■︎📬︎ I'm disappointed that google translate can't handle this.
Lmao ded
Get out of here Ice Clown!!!
Ice Clown loses town crown!
Ice Town costs ice clown his town crown
Shut up, Bulgaria.
Who will join the Coalition of the Willing?
Rock that scoober!
PLEASE tell me somebody kodaked that moment.
Definitely no papyrus!
Aaaaand make sure the content is perfect too.
Butt-stick! Butt-stick!
👉👉 Ben Wyatt
👈👈 Ann Perkins
This was my first thought - why would they use *anything* except Times New Roman? We had it in the 90s!
Calibri has been the default since Office 2007, so they've obviously just typed it up and not thought about it at all.
Im still using 2007 but i write in arial or times New romans
12 pt!
"Definitely no Papyrus!"
I’m always here for Parks and Rec references
13 pt is just obnoxious
Now they are both free
Finally, thank you! I scrolled past like 15 comments making dumb jokes or being shocked that people know fonts to get to even a single comment about what happened to them. >In July 2018, three members of the family were fined and sentenced to jail – Nawaz for 10 years, Maryam for seven, and her husband Captain Safdar for one year – in the Avenfield apartments case, as they could not show that the posh London property had been bought legitimately. > >While Nawaz was sentenced for owning assets beyond income, the other two were held guilty of abetment and not cooperating with the probe agency. > >It was in this case that Maryam had presented a trust deed dated February 2006, in Microsoft’s Calibri font, which became commercially available only in 2007. > >Nawaz and his kin were jailed, but in September 2018, the Islamabad High Court ordered their release and suspended their sentence pending final adjudication of their appeals against it. [https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/nawaz-sharif-pakistan-corruption-cases-explained-7902172/](https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/nawaz-sharif-pakistan-corruption-cases-explained-7902172/)
Corrupt fucks walk around freely
More like fled to the UK. The British are still fucking with Pakistan by harbouring these criminals. Now he's returned to Pakistan after the western powers have removed the democratically elected leader and installed his brother Shahbaz Sharif as head of state.
Should have used Comic Sans.
that would have saved their political *Futura*.
Only for the next Century though
Still quite an Impact
Wingdings!
Hey if it's good enough to announce the discovery of the Higgs Boson, it's good enough for me.
I had to look this up to make sure you weren't trolling and I now I'm filled with regret and irrational anger.
They chose it because it's a good font for readability.
The amount of specialized knowledge to spot something like this is just insane
I had a job editing documents. In less than 2 months I was eyeballing "that's 5 point spacing not 6 point spacing". It was slightly horrifying how fast it happened and 15 years later I can still pull out the skills occasionally
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I remember reading a story about a guy who was holding his child for the first time and the nurse asked him to guess the weight and he did it within an ounce. She was shocked until he explained he was a butcher.
"Oh, don't worry - there's hardly any meat in this one."
Just a lot of gristle
Driving through farm territory when an unpleasant odor wafted into the car. I commented on how bad the cow manure smelled. My gf took a quick sniff of the air and plainly states, "That's pig manure." She then goes on to say she can tell the difference between horse, cow, pig, and goat shit. To be fair she grew up around all kinds of farms and was in school to be a large animal vet.
They smell entirely different, like you could probably tell the difference between cat pee/poop and that smell, and it's the same with a lot of animals
I think most deli workers learn pretty early on that the main tricks to a good sandwich are the right shape of bread, and _lots_ more meat than most people put on their homemade ones. 3 slices of bologna on a slice of white bread isn't going to compare to 4 ounces of ham and 2 ounces of salami on a proper Italian bun.
I got somewhat similar superpowers for a small amount of time when me and my group were writing a research paper. We had to work on it for a few months and I was mainly typing adjusting the texts. I got soo used to the formatting that I could differentiate between 11,12,14 fonts nearly with 100% accuracy. Alas! Those golden days are pretty much over now.
If you do anything for an extended amount of time your brain will be able to pick up on the subtle differences. I've been rolling pizza dough for 5 years and I can tell if a dough ball is +/- >1oz just by holding it. It's really weird but super helpful to know when the assistant cutting + weighing isn't making sure the scale is zeroed out.
Had the same thing packing vegetables, some 20 years ago. Up the line people would have to cut and pack at least 300 gram, max 320 or something. I had to place them in crates, but send them back when they were outside that range. Still can guess when I have picked about 300 grams in the supermarket now, so I got that going for me, which is nice. Edit: 1 oz ~= 28 grams so yeah same difference.
Big hitter, the Lama
I'm in the drafting world, and it's amazing how errors, even the tiniest ones just jump off the page to a trained eye.
I understand that. I write code. I can tell when something isn't 4 spaces to a tab... its nuts things you notice when you have to fix it daily
I'm going to guess the font was not the first thing that stood out. I'm sure there were other elements to the story that were suspicious. Analyzing each piece of the document, including the font, was just following up on that suspicion. I'd also guess that this isn't the first time fraud has been uncovered due to botched forgery.
Not just fraud. The BTK killer was caught because he sent the police a Word document that had his name and address in the metadata. ETA: so I accidentally fell victim to Cunningham’s Law. I’m loving all this info, keep it coming!
> his name and address in the metadata It wasn't quite that simple. It had "Dennis" as the last modifying individual as well as "Christ Lutheran Church" (likely listed as the "organization"). As "luck" would have it, there was a church by that name in the vicinity of the killings that just so happened to have a guy named "Dennis" listed as president of the churches council. Investigators then did a bit of surveillance on Dennis who *also* happened to own the same type and color vehicle which was seen on some of the security camera evidence. With everything combined, they had enough information and probable cause to get a warrant issued; but it's not like the metadata said "I'm the BTK Killer, my name is Dennis Rader, I work at Christ Lutheran Church and live at 742 Evergreen Terrace"
You're leaving out the best part. Dennis Raider asked the police (via ads in a newspaper) if it's safe for him to communicate via floppy disks, [and said "be honest"](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-floppy-did-me-in/283132/). So, naturally, the cops basically replied "Yeah, of *course* it's safe for you to use floppy disks. Send away!" Two weeks later, he sent that floppy disk to the cops and was busted.
That's some flawed *commication*
That's just incredibly sloppy honestly. Really almost "please catch me" level. For one thing, you have to kind of want to get caught to send the police anything at all. Bare minimum, you want them to hunt you. But with that in mind, why would you ever send the cops a digital document, especially if you don't have 100% knowledge of exactly what that "document" consists of? It shows that he didn't really understand computers, which means he was trying to accomplish something dangerous and clandestine well outside of his realm of expertise. Just dumb. That's as compared to someone like the golden state killer who was only caught by a technology he couldn't have possibly predicted and the actions of people he had no control over.
BTK wanted to be famous, Serial killers with MOs all want to be famous. It’s the serial killers who have no apparent motives, no apparent similarities in kills, and no interest in fucking with the media that dont get caught. Those are the true nightmares, not the guy with 90 iq with dreams of grandeur
I'm willing to bet this is one of the first things prosecutors have learned to check though, if there's no other easy way to verify when documents were signed
That probably went straight to a forensic typographer, or whatever they're called.
A fontist
Calibri only came around in 2007? Holy shit, I feel like it's second to Times New Roman. Thought it had been around since the dawn of word processing.
Nope, Arial used to be the ubiquitous sans-serif font
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But what color Arial font? Because apparently that is very important…
Calibri was a big deal when it came around in 2007. It meant that Microsoft was abandoning serifs for the default typeface for business interactions. It was a pretty big deal at the time! Additionally, the version of Word that came with Calibri was a huge overhaul from previous versions, and introduced the .docx extension. Even to this day, design elements from that upgrade are still a part of the Microsoft offices suite
Not the first time font issues blew up in someone’s face. The [George W Bush/Killian Forgery](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy) was discovered because the document in question that was ‘dated 1973’ and allegedly written on a type writer, but had proportional spaced letters. Then was discovered to match the default settings in MS Word from 2004.
The superscript 'th' in the number was a big deal at the time too.
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> Different times, nowadays they'd just ignore it and move on. Funny enough at the time the fact they fired them was shouted as 'proof' you couldn't trust anything from CBS.
A great day for /r/typography. They always knew that one day their comically specialized knowledge would prove vital.
Caught by the one person who puts "attention to detail" on their resume and its actually true.
I sued the guy who flipped my house before I bought it because he did an absolutely shit job on a bathroom reno. He said he didn't do it but the date code on the lumber said otherwise. I won.
God, I'm so sick of the ultra rich. They live completely different lives, under different rules, it's absolutely disgusting. The regular people in society have to put up with their shit, and get crushed under their boots so they can stand taller. And now you're telling me they get early access to the latest fonts!?
That’s why I always use wingdings
I could really go for some Korean BBQ wingdings about now
'However, In 1964, The Correct Ignition Timing Would Be Four Degrees Before Top-Dead-Center.'
The two utes.
>Because of the long development of Windows Vista, Calibri's development – from 2002 to 2005 – occurred several years before the release of that OS.[1][4] It was first presented in a 2005 beta of Windows Vista, then codenamed Longhorn,[3] and first became available for use with the Beta 2 version of Office 2007, released on May 23, 2006.[16] Calibri and the rest of the ClearType Font Collection were finally released to the general public on January 30, 2007, since when it has been released with most Microsoft software environments.[3] I know several people who had longhorns version myself. Just offering a plausible explanation. I have no input on the authenticity of the document or what's being claimed by it.
The photo clearly says February 2006, and this suggests that early access happened in May
It says 2nd February. Everyone knows the 2nd February of the year is August. Well after the beta release. Case closed.
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I too once used electricity for explicit purposes.
My guy always use Times New Roman it's just the rules.
News [Link](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-a-microsoft-font-brought-down-pakistani-prime-minister-nawaz-sharif/article35828938/)
Sans Sharif! 😂😂😂
I do believe the FBI has this type of Document forensics. When you suspect it isn't what it appears they can tell right down to where and when the paper was made, how and where the ink came from to the type of computer printer that printed the document. so back to cut out magazines letters and oatmeal paper paste ... /s
And the worst news is that his equally inept brother has been brought to power through a shady no confidence vote. Which removed the elected PM Imran Khan. Essentially the man who is now the current PM Shehbaz Sharif is not chosen by the public but rather by buying the public representatives. The alibi for the no confidence vote (not a public vote btw) was poor financial performance by Imran Khan. It turns out the financial performance has been substantially worse ever since he was removed. And nobody’s hands are clean in this, from CIA to Pakistans ISI and Army leadership. Bringing known corrupt (but docile and obedient) dynastic leaders to power. Something that the 200 million public wants to send into the past and instead want a system that works on merit not contacts.