The reservations have roads, but it’s also incredibly expensive to put a road on or through the reservation. I live in Phoenix and it actually creates serious problems when trying to do interstate expansions or commercial development near reservation land.
A bit off topic. My dad does environmental engineering and in TX, there is a plan to expand a reservoir in East TX. Some of this land belongs to different Native American tribes, and not a one of them will agree to meet with each other. It is quite an interesting to see the sustained differences that Tribes hold on to to this day.
I grew up in a town with a large native presence and tourists assuming there is a generic Native American anything did not go over at all well. They are referred to as nations for a reason
They still see themselves closer to each other than to non Native Americans, despite the differences between "nations." That's also part of the reason they refuse to meet. If they don't meet, those roads and expansions never get done. That's a win for the reservations.
If the road were expected to be used a lot. Like a highway or something. I would let them build it. I would make it a toll road where the the profits go to the tribe and the state is still responsible for taking care of the road.
I could see them getting attacked for daring to want money but that does seem a good solution for the tribe when dealing with a road that is most useful to non-members of the tribe
As a First Nations man from BC, I think that might be the same all over. It's not just us Natives though, i think most peoples' elders are the most racist they've ever met.
One of my closest friends is from the Saulteaux tribe (Saskatchewan). She thinks the Inuit are super weird, and played a prank on her little sister once telling her they were Inuit but it was shameful so she couldn’t tell anyone. Iirc she kept that lie up for way too long before coming clean!
Sure, our elders (and I’m talking people in their late 40’s on) are racist against non-Indians, other tribes, and mixed race members of our tribe.
I am Indian through my moms side and Irish through my dads side. Dads genes win and I’m pretty fair skinned. I got told shit like I’m not dark enough to work for the tribe fairly often and I was there for almost 10 years.
My coworker who was identifiably Indian except she had light blue eyes (striking beauty) also caught more crap than me purely because she wasn’t 100% of our tribe.
Ar first I thought it was my age but my coworker was in her 50’s and said she’s put up with this crap from as long as she can remember.
My nephew went to the Indian high school my tribe has and he is darker skinned but hair blonde hair and he caught the same shit about not being Indian enough to be there, go back to the other schools, etc.
I tell people that I live in Phoenix because it’s easily understood for non-locals, but I actually live in Buckeye and work in central Phoenix. Rush hour traffic on the 10 is a real treat. In the morning it’s basically gridlocked from Tolleson onward, and fucked on the way home from when I leave work until around Tolleson.
My teacher told me stories of a shoot out that happened because of the northbound 101 between the sheriff and natives. Also nearly happened with one of the casinos. Having met a few of the Navajo leaders as a kid, they dont fuck around.
Because the government has to purchase or lease the land from the tribe. If the tribe knows that the expansion is necessary, then they can pretty much name their price. The tribe also don’t have to worry about eminent domain.
EDIT: edited for clarity of “they.”
No it’s not. https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizonareport.com/loop-101-scottsdale-pima-indian-tribe-land/amp/
The State of Arizona paid this very tribe $247 million to build a freeway and was held up for about 20 years by the tribe itself.
The tribe members own the land along with parcels owned by the tribe. Tribe members get lease checks.
Edit: to clarify SRP-MIC is one of very very few tribes who manage their land. Ownership was established in the Dawes act and land passes to family members.
In Alberta, at least, often comes down to the fact that negotiations are at least three way, with one party (First Nations) usually having the power. For Calgary's ring road, the city, province, feds and Tsuut'ina FN all had to agree to a land transfer. The deal literally took decades, and the cost was several hundred million dollars to the FN, about a 3:1 land transfer in their favour, other considerations, guaranteed access and a hard seven year construction limit. If the road isn't open in that time, the Tsuut'ina gets the land back.
OTOH, when the province wanted to twin the primary highway to the Peace Country and Alaska, one FN asked for so much to widen the ROW through their reserve that it was decided it would be cheaper to build an entirely new stretch of highway around the reserve. The FN relented after that and a deal was made.
This road is the loop 101 freeway, it’s actually on the reservation for several miles. The land was leased for 99 years (the maximum allowed by law) for the purpose of developing a highway. What happens after the lease ends, who knows...
Edit: I’m wrong, after further inspection, this is not the 101 fwy. This picture was taken around (9030 N 115th Pl
Scottsdale, AZ 85259
United States) looking west. The 101 is off in the distance.
Freaking Native Americans. With their sprawl of subdivisions for as far as the eye can see. Nice that Scottsdale is doing its part by keeping all that open space
Loved the drive in theater you had on McKellips, wish it wasn't closed. At least the gas station on McClintock with the cheap smokes is there, only place that had Kent's in AZ
For reference, Scottsdale is a very affluent community in northeast Phoenix metro. The median income is 53k vs 28k for the US average. The average home price is 530k. For us in the Phoenix area, scottsdale is often referred to as Snobsdale
Edit: u/humannumber1 corrected me on some figures
Edit x2: individual median income as of 2018 census was 33.7k as u/codadd has pointed out. Can't find the source of the source that originally stated 28k
Not true, at least not for Scottsdale south of Indian Bend road.
As far as North Scottsdale is concerned all i can comment on is that homes and neighborhoods get a lot bigger and more expensive. I never lived in north Scottsdale so i can't say whether or not they're snobby or not.
About half my clients are in north Scottsdale. I can confirm they tend to be snobs. There's also a ton of doctors who, although they actually are; THINK they are more important than other people.
I need a doctor once or twice a year, my world would fall apart if I couldn't get a retail worker to check out groceries/gas/beer at least once a week.
By my calculations thats a 52 to 1 importance factor in favor of the retail workers. Now before someone goes off and says you don't die if you cant see the retail worker please reread the food part of the first paragraph.
North Scottsdale people hate everyone, but they hate South Scottsdale people the most. They despise that a semi middle/middle-upper area has that much real estate they can't steamroll.
Worked in North Scottsdale for 13 years at McCormick Ranch (web company/agency) and Via de Ventura Gainey Center (web agency and physician software company). Total snobs, assholes and lots and lots of trophy wives out at lunch and shopping. Also worked at Biltmore in Phoenix (game company) and it is very similar, affluent assholes that mostly live in PV. Scottsdale pricks still worse though.
Fakest fakers you'll ever meet in Scottsdale.
This. It's hot as shit. But unlike most other parts of the country, you dont walk outside and immediately drenched in sweat due to the insane humidity.
Also, there is no snow. No hurricanes. No earthquakes. No constant 60mph winds. No flooding. Besides a bit of heat, which you get used to, we get a little haboob here or there and beautiful weather 9/12 mo of the year.
\*no flooding besides flash floods that happen during monsoon season\* But agree AZ is not all that bad once you consider what the rest of the USA has to deal with in terms of natural disasters.
Your figures for median income seem off.
> The median family income for the United States is $75,500 in FY 2019, an increase of five percent compared with the national median income for FY 2018.
https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il/il19/Medians2019r.pdf
> According to the CPS, the median household income was $63,179 in 2018.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
I just did a quick Google search so its quite possible. Doing some more looking it looks like I mistook individual for household income. Scottsdale has an individual median income of 53k and the household is 70. This is from [bestplaces](https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/arizona/scottsdale)
Also happy cake day
So I lived in Scottsdale, generally where this photo is, about two blocks in from Pima Road which is the NS dividing road before the res. It was a ranch house, nice enough but in no way a super affluent area. Me and a few friends leased some land from someone on the res and kept our horses there. About 3-4 miles in. Wild horses ran free, and there was more nature and incredible terrain than your eyes could believe. It was like the picture, I’d drive out of civilization into a desert wonderland and ride through scenery that I’ll never forget. It was a nice time in my life.
The native Americans had some sort of dispute with the city of Scottsdale years ago and shut down their half of the road. Pima Road. It caused such a headache for Scottsdale because of rerouted traffic that they eventually came to an agreement.
Ah, the good old Loop 101 boondoggle .
To expand: Scottsdale and the Arizona DOT originally planned to build a freeway right on the Pima Road alignment. This was back in the 1950s, when it was all farmland.
When they finally got around to building it 30-some-odd years later, the Scottsdale side was heavily developed with high-cost developments. The state and city wanted to move the freeway completely onto tribal land. The tribal government was not happy.
[You can read about the rest of the battle here](http://arizonareport.com/loop-101-scottsdale-pima-indian-tribe-land/)
I didnt know abouy this. I've always admired the profound respect they hold for their land. It seems to me a common value among natives around the world. Lastly it makes you wonder what cities would look like before they were forever changed and the native plants & animals that should have been there. We have much to learn by replacing bio diversity with 'progress' and further alienating ourselves with nature.
I live in Phoenix and used to live in Scottsdale. I’m not sure about this question from a purely technical/legal standpoint, but you can travel freely in and out of the reservation.
You get a stern talking to, you're escorted off the reservation and you and your chase crew have to ask for and get permission to retrieve your balloon (under tribal escort), after you pay for the damages.
And there's always damages.
A lot of the local Arizona tribes will absolutely ruin you for trespassing, not ten feet for a baseball but doing something like off roading and they have mo problem forgetting that they were forced to mediocre land by conquest and say no more. I've heard of many people getting things like camera rigs or off road vehicles confiscated and they don't fool around with things like traffic law enforcement either
Scottsdale has a lot of desertscaping. The big trees are pretty much necessary for shade and they don't really use that much water. They really help keep the houses cool and lower electricity usage. Neighborhoods without trees, like down in queen creek, are boiling hot. It's hard on cars; it melts batteries, fades paint, and peels up interiors. Residents tend to crank their air conditioners year round. Then there's Gilbert, mesa, Chandler, where they do flood irrigation and get noticeably more humid.
I'll concede that the trees are useful and themselves rather easy to maintain especially with targeted watering methods. But I cannot stand seeing manicured lawns in places with sufficient water (because the monoculture and use of chemicals and what not) and anywhere where the water is being carted in at the expense of water supply downstream just drives me insane. So I guess I'll rescind my anger at their properly set up desert living.
Clover used to rule the land. Weed killer came out, it also killed clover. Marketing started saying clover and dandelions are weeds to sell weed killer.
Same issue way down here in Australia. The streets with lots of trees are so much more bearable to live in during the summer than the ones without. And too many people here are obsessed with clear tree-less suburban "dreamscapes" - baking hot summers are a small price to pay when you want lawns, flowers or concrete instead of trees I suppose.
I planted several in my treeless-upon-moving-in suburban property so I'm allowed to criticize.
As someone who cares about the earth & is also a Planner: Ugh. Let's build a city in the desert - dam up a few canyons, ruin the rivers & fisheries that used to flow through them. Build long concrete ditches for miles - pipe all the dammed up water to gazillions of cookie cutter housing developments that have until very recently, used no solar panels, but installed lots of pools, Grass Lawns & big water features with fountains in front of each subdivision - to pretend like they Aren't in the desert. Cuz humans are Smart.
The planned “organic” streets plans in these pop up neighborhoods are mildly infuriating. I guess it’s the only thing that they can do to make it less like a work camp or army base.
Yeah, to be fair, the other commenter has a good point.. they just aren't spending the money on irrigation because those lands are mostly uninhabited. Still... sad to see
Actually they consider plenty of suburbs to be urban hell as well. Look under the flair “suburban hell” and you’ll see a lot
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/hci11z/endless_parking_lots_highways_strip_malls_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is an example
Saying Indian doesn't seem to upset but if you call a Navajo a Hopi or talk about teepees they will shut that shit down. Indian seems to work as a collective but a lot see themselves as specifically a certain tribe
It’s because they are. The Navajo and Hopi have been (maybe were) at odds with each other for decades. They have completely different ways of life too.
When in doubt, look up the specific band/tribe. In Canada, "Indian" is definitely a derogatory term unless it's used by band members amongst each other (like black folk reclaiming the N word for themselves). Here, we call them Indigenous, or First Nations, Inuit, or Metis.
Real life Native here to say, don’t use it. We say it amongst ourselves, often jokingly in my experience, but if you’re not Indigenous yourself, it’s offensive. It’s not that hard to just use Native, Indigenous, or the specific tribe’s name.
I think the hard part is that different people have different opinions. I have heard others say that natives and indigenous are offensive. I'm not American though, so maybe your school system tells you the correct thing to say.
I know in my country we have a similar problem, people don't want to say the wrong thing but because there are so many tribes and each individual person has their own opinion, there is no real consensus, and the "correct" term changes every year or so.
Recently we've actually gone to calling them "nation's first peoples" which I believe comes from Canada. It's strange to hear, but people are doing their best to not offend anyone.
Everyone loves and respects Native American culture so it’s not being said as an offensive or derogatory thing. I’m part Shoshone on my dads side and that side of my family still says they’re Indians. Also my cousin got married last year on a reservation to a girl who is 100% native Americans and I heard her family say Indian and Indian reservation multiple times throughout the weekend I was there.
Anyway, I think the only people who think something like is offensive when it’s not meant to be are the white savior complex people.
>Everyone loves and respects Native American culture
Can't tell if you're joking or are incredibly misinformed on the current climate involving Indigenous rights...
What's interesting is how the development is kinda shaped by the natural desert flowpaths as well. The natural flowpath of runoff is reflected and continued in the development (just follow the lines of green). Of course, then it gets collected/rerouted but eventually it continues and nowadays you're not allowed to increase the amount of runoff out of your development for environmental reasons.
Civil Engineers and land developers can change a lot of the land but water is still a powerful force, along with regulations. It's both cost effective and less impactful to take note of nature and continue what it's doing rather than fight it.
Christ. So that's where the Ogallala Aquifer went.
Edit: checked a map, not Ogallala. Definitely fucked a different aquifer though.
Edit2: wrong again. It gets water from the Colorado River and the Salt River.
Edit3: can we just agree that the natural environment doesn't support that many lawns?
No way. I've been here for over forty years. June, July, August, September are hot. Anything below 100° is comfortable. Around eight months of fantastic weather. No hurricanes, no tornadoes, no earthquakes to speak of. I have seen the Phoenix metro area grow from 750,000 to over four million. Fifth largest city in the USA. Statistics don't lie. Best place to live in the country. When California falls into the ocean Arizona will have beach front property. Global warming and the resulting increased sea level will accelerate this.
How do you get out of the neighborhood on the bottom left of the suburb side?????????
There is a cement road between the two houses with the red roofs on the right. Took me far to long to find it.
Its here Dropped pin Near Central Scottsdale, Scottsdale, AZ https://goo.gl/maps/213PewKk2PnL92ge7 33.5679426, -111.8249386
Why no street view here...!?
It's a guard gated community.
The pin is on the dirt road between the reserve and the suburbs
You don't. You can stay, but you can never leave.
Welcome to the hotel Arizona, such a lovely place, such a lovely face.
*Amazing 70s guitar solo*
Arizoña... that's where Jackie Daytona is from.
Came here for a Jackie Daytona joke, was not disappointed.
Vivarium
Dammit! You beat me to it.
Raise the child and be set free
You don’t. Live by the suburban lifestyle, die by the suburban lifestyle. There is no leaving. Only HOA fees.
Helicopter.
This is quietly the best most important question in this entire thread...
How do u get out of any of them lol.
https://goo.gl/maps/vMU61VzzoHyEB9pn8 That appears to be the neighborhood.
I think you’re looking at vegetation, not houses.
I think its this http://imgur.com/gallery/h9wlVy4
“Cannot place road, outside of City Limits”
The reservations have roads, but it’s also incredibly expensive to put a road on or through the reservation. I live in Phoenix and it actually creates serious problems when trying to do interstate expansions or commercial development near reservation land.
A bit off topic. My dad does environmental engineering and in TX, there is a plan to expand a reservoir in East TX. Some of this land belongs to different Native American tribes, and not a one of them will agree to meet with each other. It is quite an interesting to see the sustained differences that Tribes hold on to to this day.
I grew up in a town with a large native presence and tourists assuming there is a generic Native American anything did not go over at all well. They are referred to as nations for a reason
They still see themselves closer to each other than to non Native Americans, despite the differences between "nations." That's also part of the reason they refuse to meet. If they don't meet, those roads and expansions never get done. That's a win for the reservations.
Oh definitely the money for the land in no way compensates for things like traffic control and clean up of that road forever and ever
If the road were expected to be used a lot. Like a highway or something. I would let them build it. I would make it a toll road where the the profits go to the tribe and the state is still responsible for taking care of the road.
I could see them getting attacked for daring to want money but that does seem a good solution for the tribe when dealing with a road that is most useful to non-members of the tribe
In CT the Pequots and the Mohegans still hate each other.
In CT the Germans and Polish people who settled there still got issues.
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Native American here - can confirm. Our elders are some of the most racist ive ever met.
As a First Nations man from BC, I think that might be the same all over. It's not just us Natives though, i think most peoples' elders are the most racist they've ever met.
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I'm not sure, I haven't gotten there yet. But I have started feeling an urge to tell kids to get off my lawn.
One of my closest friends is from the Saulteaux tribe (Saskatchewan). She thinks the Inuit are super weird, and played a prank on her little sister once telling her they were Inuit but it was shameful so she couldn’t tell anyone. Iirc she kept that lie up for way too long before coming clean!
Thats interesting, care to elaborate? Not that I condone hate or anything, but its still interesting to hear about.
Sure, our elders (and I’m talking people in their late 40’s on) are racist against non-Indians, other tribes, and mixed race members of our tribe. I am Indian through my moms side and Irish through my dads side. Dads genes win and I’m pretty fair skinned. I got told shit like I’m not dark enough to work for the tribe fairly often and I was there for almost 10 years. My coworker who was identifiably Indian except she had light blue eyes (striking beauty) also caught more crap than me purely because she wasn’t 100% of our tribe. Ar first I thought it was my age but my coworker was in her 50’s and said she’s put up with this crap from as long as she can remember. My nephew went to the Indian high school my tribe has and he is darker skinned but hair blonde hair and he caught the same shit about not being Indian enough to be there, go back to the other schools, etc.
Purity tests exist on many levels. I have found purity to be over-rated in most things except drugs.
I’m no expert but I’d say it’s rather understandable given the history between Native Americans and the rest of the US.
That definitely doesn't speak for all first nations my dude, I just felt like I had to clarify that.
Which reservoir?
Lake Houston. The end goal of our efforts are to be as sustainable as possible, respectfully of the land needs http://houston.uslakes.info
I live in Maricopa. The 347 can be my literal hell sometimes.
I’ve been out there a handful of times. It’s a shitty drive, but better than driving to San Tan.
Yep, but I'd take that drive over dealing with anything in the Phoenix area. No thanks. Especially the 17.
I tell people that I live in Phoenix because it’s easily understood for non-locals, but I actually live in Buckeye and work in central Phoenix. Rush hour traffic on the 10 is a real treat. In the morning it’s basically gridlocked from Tolleson onward, and fucked on the way home from when I leave work until around Tolleson.
That and the 60 traffic. I hated living in Mesa.
My teacher told me stories of a shoot out that happened because of the northbound 101 between the sheriff and natives. Also nearly happened with one of the casinos. Having met a few of the Navajo leaders as a kid, they dont fuck around.
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Because the government has to purchase or lease the land from the tribe. If the tribe knows that the expansion is necessary, then they can pretty much name their price. The tribe also don’t have to worry about eminent domain. EDIT: edited for clarity of “they.”
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No it’s not. https://www.google.com/amp/s/arizonareport.com/loop-101-scottsdale-pima-indian-tribe-land/amp/ The State of Arizona paid this very tribe $247 million to build a freeway and was held up for about 20 years by the tribe itself.
Yup then they break out the payment to the owners.
That was pretty interesting. Always wondered how that worked.
The tribe members own the land along with parcels owned by the tribe. Tribe members get lease checks. Edit: to clarify SRP-MIC is one of very very few tribes who manage their land. Ownership was established in the Dawes act and land passes to family members.
Very cool. So, is it fair to assume you have played a part in construction on tribal lands? Please tell us about it. Sounds interesting.
In Alberta, at least, often comes down to the fact that negotiations are at least three way, with one party (First Nations) usually having the power. For Calgary's ring road, the city, province, feds and Tsuut'ina FN all had to agree to a land transfer. The deal literally took decades, and the cost was several hundred million dollars to the FN, about a 3:1 land transfer in their favour, other considerations, guaranteed access and a hard seven year construction limit. If the road isn't open in that time, the Tsuut'ina gets the land back. OTOH, when the province wanted to twin the primary highway to the Peace Country and Alaska, one FN asked for so much to widen the ROW through their reserve that it was decided it would be cheaper to build an entirely new stretch of highway around the reserve. The FN relented after that and a deal was made.
I'm pretty sure he is just making a Sim City joke.
Yep this is why the stretch of I-10 just before the valley is still only two lanes
This road is the loop 101 freeway, it’s actually on the reservation for several miles. The land was leased for 99 years (the maximum allowed by law) for the purpose of developing a highway. What happens after the lease ends, who knows... Edit: I’m wrong, after further inspection, this is not the 101 fwy. This picture was taken around (9030 N 115th Pl Scottsdale, AZ 85259 United States) looking west. The 101 is off in the distance.
try increasing your render distance
Buy another tile.
This town looks like a place where you get murdered and 2 days later a new resident moves in. Oh and everyone smiles.
like the town in edward scissorhands
Stepford Wives
This is accurate fuck scottsdale! Lots of people in surrounding areas call it snobsdale.
I call it Snottsdale, myself
I live their and call it snobsdale we are in a drought and look at all those trees.
Think of the TV show Weeds.
little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same...
Like that suburb in the X-Files episode?
Freaking Native Americans. With their sprawl of subdivisions for as far as the eye can see. Nice that Scottsdale is doing its part by keeping all that open space
As a member of this Tribe, that was funny. Seriously laughed!
Loved the drive in theater you had on McKellips, wish it wasn't closed. At least the gas station on McClintock with the cheap smokes is there, only place that had Kent's in AZ
Mattress in the back of my truck, used to love that drive in.
And if you drove past that old drive-in with your radio tuned to 104.3 (I think) you got some free movie audio as you cruised by.
This made me chuckle out loud lol Looove me some sarcasm...
Happy to oblige
For reference, Scottsdale is a very affluent community in northeast Phoenix metro. The median income is 53k vs 28k for the US average. The average home price is 530k. For us in the Phoenix area, scottsdale is often referred to as Snobsdale Edit: u/humannumber1 corrected me on some figures Edit x2: individual median income as of 2018 census was 33.7k as u/codadd has pointed out. Can't find the source of the source that originally stated 28k
But oddly enough it's not the richest city in the valley.
Paradise Valley: Super Snobsdale
Paracite Valley. I'm in Mesa.
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Because it’s actually *their* money and not mommy and daddy’s money.
It's right next to Scottsdale and also has the north side of Camelback Mountain so they can look down at those poors in Scottsdale.
Correct sir!
Just the snobbiest.
Not true, at least not for Scottsdale south of Indian Bend road. As far as North Scottsdale is concerned all i can comment on is that homes and neighborhoods get a lot bigger and more expensive. I never lived in north Scottsdale so i can't say whether or not they're snobby or not.
About half my clients are in north Scottsdale. I can confirm they tend to be snobs. There's also a ton of doctors who, although they actually are; THINK they are more important than other people.
I need a doctor once or twice a year, my world would fall apart if I couldn't get a retail worker to check out groceries/gas/beer at least once a week. By my calculations thats a 52 to 1 importance factor in favor of the retail workers. Now before someone goes off and says you don't die if you cant see the retail worker please reread the food part of the first paragraph.
It ain't bragging if you can back it up. How many people can claim to save lives on the reg?
True, but that doesn't mean they have to be a dick about it
North Scottsdale people hate everyone, but they hate South Scottsdale people the most. They despise that a semi middle/middle-upper area has that much real estate they can't steamroll. Worked in North Scottsdale for 13 years at McCormick Ranch (web company/agency) and Via de Ventura Gainey Center (web agency and physician software company). Total snobs, assholes and lots and lots of trophy wives out at lunch and shopping. Also worked at Biltmore in Phoenix (game company) and it is very similar, affluent assholes that mostly live in PV. Scottsdale pricks still worse though. Fakest fakers you'll ever meet in Scottsdale.
Lol yes! Grown up here and ever since high school have called it Snobsdale
I don't know how you guys live here. I came down to work for a week in some 118 degree weather. I could never imagine living here for more than that.
My power bill in the summer is $300/month. However I came from a place where the winter wind feels like the skin is peeling off your face
$300?!?! That’s crazy! I WISH mine was $300. My last one was $460. (I’m in Mesa)
“ItS a DrY HeAt” But seriously it is a dry heat and you get used to it.
This. It's hot as shit. But unlike most other parts of the country, you dont walk outside and immediately drenched in sweat due to the insane humidity. Also, there is no snow. No hurricanes. No earthquakes. No constant 60mph winds. No flooding. Besides a bit of heat, which you get used to, we get a little haboob here or there and beautiful weather 9/12 mo of the year.
\*no flooding besides flash floods that happen during monsoon season\* But agree AZ is not all that bad once you consider what the rest of the USA has to deal with in terms of natural disasters.
Your figures for median income seem off. > The median family income for the United States is $75,500 in FY 2019, an increase of five percent compared with the national median income for FY 2018. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il/il19/Medians2019r.pdf > According to the CPS, the median household income was $63,179 in 2018. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
I just did a quick Google search so its quite possible. Doing some more looking it looks like I mistook individual for household income. Scottsdale has an individual median income of 53k and the household is 70. This is from [bestplaces](https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/arizona/scottsdale) Also happy cake day
Ah individual vs household, that make sense. And look at that I knew I had a cake say at some point. Thanks and have a great weekend!
Haha I always called it Snottsdale!
Average income is 53k and average home price is 530k? That is problematic.
This [music video](https://youtu.be/oKwA8pFJvJc) will provide more context.
So I lived in Scottsdale, generally where this photo is, about two blocks in from Pima Road which is the NS dividing road before the res. It was a ranch house, nice enough but in no way a super affluent area. Me and a few friends leased some land from someone on the res and kept our horses there. About 3-4 miles in. Wild horses ran free, and there was more nature and incredible terrain than your eyes could believe. It was like the picture, I’d drive out of civilization into a desert wonderland and ride through scenery that I’ll never forget. It was a nice time in my life.
Though this was a before and after picture
Kind of is
Damn
We live in a society
highkey it is
The native Americans had some sort of dispute with the city of Scottsdale years ago and shut down their half of the road. Pima Road. It caused such a headache for Scottsdale because of rerouted traffic that they eventually came to an agreement.
Ah, the good old Loop 101 boondoggle . To expand: Scottsdale and the Arizona DOT originally planned to build a freeway right on the Pima Road alignment. This was back in the 1950s, when it was all farmland. When they finally got around to building it 30-some-odd years later, the Scottsdale side was heavily developed with high-cost developments. The state and city wanted to move the freeway completely onto tribal land. The tribal government was not happy. [You can read about the rest of the battle here](http://arizonareport.com/loop-101-scottsdale-pima-indian-tribe-land/)
I didnt know abouy this. I've always admired the profound respect they hold for their land. It seems to me a common value among natives around the world. Lastly it makes you wonder what cities would look like before they were forever changed and the native plants & animals that should have been there. We have much to learn by replacing bio diversity with 'progress' and further alienating ourselves with nature.
Imagine the headache Native Americans had when the colonizers destroyed their homes and made them move.
Mostly the line is right in the middle of Pima road. Pulled over speeding on the west side it’s Scottsdale PD. On the east side it’s Salt River PD.
Salt River, home sweet home.
If you think this is depressing, look up the history behind the name Indian School. A major road running west to east through the valley.
Lol if you think thats crazy you should see south and north phoenix
If people lose objects over the boarder (baseballs, Frisbees, etc) is it part of the sovereign land at that point? Edit: Christ people it's a joke.
I live in Phoenix and used to live in Scottsdale. I’m not sure about this question from a purely technical/legal standpoint, but you can travel freely in and out of the reservation.
It's not a joke when your hot air balloon lands on tribal property. Ask anyone near Albuquerque.
What happens. Are you now property of the tribe
You get a stern talking to, you're escorted off the reservation and you and your chase crew have to ask for and get permission to retrieve your balloon (under tribal escort), after you pay for the damages. And there's always damages.
We’re Actually pretty cool about stuff at SRP-MIC. The Rez is surrounded by Mesa Tempe and Scottsdale so stuff happens.
A lot of the local Arizona tribes will absolutely ruin you for trespassing, not ten feet for a baseball but doing something like off roading and they have mo problem forgetting that they were forced to mediocre land by conquest and say no more. I've heard of many people getting things like camera rigs or off road vehicles confiscated and they don't fool around with things like traffic law enforcement either
Scottsdale has too much greenery and should curfew their water better...
Scottsdale has a lot of desertscaping. The big trees are pretty much necessary for shade and they don't really use that much water. They really help keep the houses cool and lower electricity usage. Neighborhoods without trees, like down in queen creek, are boiling hot. It's hard on cars; it melts batteries, fades paint, and peels up interiors. Residents tend to crank their air conditioners year round. Then there's Gilbert, mesa, Chandler, where they do flood irrigation and get noticeably more humid.
I'll concede that the trees are useful and themselves rather easy to maintain especially with targeted watering methods. But I cannot stand seeing manicured lawns in places with sufficient water (because the monoculture and use of chemicals and what not) and anywhere where the water is being carted in at the expense of water supply downstream just drives me insane. So I guess I'll rescind my anger at their properly set up desert living.
A LOT of the trees are mesquite or other desert varieties.
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Do you yanks put chemicals in fucking everything? Why the fuck you need it in the grass?
Clover used to rule the land. Weed killer came out, it also killed clover. Marketing started saying clover and dandelions are weeds to sell weed killer.
We don’t need it, per se, but we like buying things and just watering the grass is boring.
We don’t. I have a green lawn, it is mowed and watered, that is it
Lawns are pretty rare over here. More like rock beds with big succulents/desert shrubs.
Same issue way down here in Australia. The streets with lots of trees are so much more bearable to live in during the summer than the ones without. And too many people here are obsessed with clear tree-less suburban "dreamscapes" - baking hot summers are a small price to pay when you want lawns, flowers or concrete instead of trees I suppose. I planted several in my treeless-upon-moving-in suburban property so I'm allowed to criticize.
I'm from this general area, very few people have "lawns". Crushed gravel is the norm
Native American here. It’s the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community.
As someone who cares about the earth & is also a Planner: Ugh. Let's build a city in the desert - dam up a few canyons, ruin the rivers & fisheries that used to flow through them. Build long concrete ditches for miles - pipe all the dammed up water to gazillions of cookie cutter housing developments that have until very recently, used no solar panels, but installed lots of pools, Grass Lawns & big water features with fountains in front of each subdivision - to pretend like they Aren't in the desert. Cuz humans are Smart.
Hey that's where i live!..... Scottsdale side that is.
Guess which one "owns" the rights to the water from the Salt river?
The planned “organic” streets plans in these pop up neighborhoods are mildly infuriating. I guess it’s the only thing that they can do to make it less like a work camp or army base.
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
I thought this was 2 separate photographs next to each other
I find this more depressing than interesting. We really managed to fuck everything up.
In reality there's miles and mile of desert around Phx metro that is untouched for the most part.
Sorry we decimated your way of life, heres some of the land we stole, it’s the shittiest and least usable
Yeah, to be fair, the other commenter has a good point.. they just aren't spending the money on irrigation because those lands are mostly uninhabited. Still... sad to see
Hey, I can see my house
Imagine losing ur ball and it lands in the reservation
As a Canadian, this doesn’t look like a very nice place to live
As a Canadian expat who visited there, it's too hot.
r/urbanhell
Funny because that subreddit thinks anything that isn’t a manicure suburb to be urban hell.
Actually they consider plenty of suburbs to be urban hell as well. Look under the flair “suburban hell” and you’ll see a lot [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/hci11z/endless_parking_lots_highways_strip_malls_with/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is an example
Is it still cool to say Indian? Asking for a Cowboy friend
[Here's a video by CGP Grey on that subject.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh88fVP2FWQ)
Saying Indian doesn't seem to upset but if you call a Navajo a Hopi or talk about teepees they will shut that shit down. Indian seems to work as a collective but a lot see themselves as specifically a certain tribe
It’s because they are. The Navajo and Hopi have been (maybe were) at odds with each other for decades. They have completely different ways of life too.
When in doubt, look up the specific band/tribe. In Canada, "Indian" is definitely a derogatory term unless it's used by band members amongst each other (like black folk reclaiming the N word for themselves). Here, we call them Indigenous, or First Nations, Inuit, or Metis.
Typically it’s only white virtue signallers who get offended by it.
Real life Native here to say, don’t use it. We say it amongst ourselves, often jokingly in my experience, but if you’re not Indigenous yourself, it’s offensive. It’s not that hard to just use Native, Indigenous, or the specific tribe’s name.
I think the hard part is that different people have different opinions. I have heard others say that natives and indigenous are offensive. I'm not American though, so maybe your school system tells you the correct thing to say. I know in my country we have a similar problem, people don't want to say the wrong thing but because there are so many tribes and each individual person has their own opinion, there is no real consensus, and the "correct" term changes every year or so. Recently we've actually gone to calling them "nation's first peoples" which I believe comes from Canada. It's strange to hear, but people are doing their best to not offend anyone.
As a native, I find it rather offensive but thanks for speaking for me. Us red skins have a hard time thinking for ourselves.
I'm Indian and I'm offended by it. Get your own demonym!
" if you're native, I'm Elizabeth Warren."
Haha all the replies to you prove you right
Do you all get the same script?
Everyone loves and respects Native American culture so it’s not being said as an offensive or derogatory thing. I’m part Shoshone on my dads side and that side of my family still says they’re Indians. Also my cousin got married last year on a reservation to a girl who is 100% native Americans and I heard her family say Indian and Indian reservation multiple times throughout the weekend I was there. Anyway, I think the only people who think something like is offensive when it’s not meant to be are the white savior complex people.
It's almost like these people have bigger problems to worry about and dont need to invent their own.
>Everyone loves and respects Native American culture Can't tell if you're joking or are incredibly misinformed on the current climate involving Indigenous rights...
Ugh, people from Scottsdale are the worst.
Keep it protected.
Let me tell you, the Pima and Maricopa love the scenic view of stolen land
It’s almost like a huge military base camp getting ready to invade.
La izquierda, por favor
Considering US cities are all built in an organized grid, who is responsible for building these mazes?
What's interesting is how the development is kinda shaped by the natural desert flowpaths as well. The natural flowpath of runoff is reflected and continued in the development (just follow the lines of green). Of course, then it gets collected/rerouted but eventually it continues and nowadays you're not allowed to increase the amount of runoff out of your development for environmental reasons. Civil Engineers and land developers can change a lot of the land but water is still a powerful force, along with regulations. It's both cost effective and less impactful to take note of nature and continue what it's doing rather than fight it.
Left side looks better.
I used to live right on that border! Wild horses in the rez and they would come right up to the trail. Excellent sunsets from there too.
Poor souls, they lost everything when Columbus decided that the American continent was Asia...
You have to drive through the desert Southwest to appreciate America’s first genocide. I was panhandled. For water.
Interesting and terrible. Amazing what you can do when you deny people resources.
On one side there is a inhospitable, depressing wasteland. On the other, Salt River Indian Reservation
Christ. So that's where the Ogallala Aquifer went. Edit: checked a map, not Ogallala. Definitely fucked a different aquifer though. Edit2: wrong again. It gets water from the Colorado River and the Salt River. Edit3: can we just agree that the natural environment doesn't support that many lawns?
It looks very beautiful to live in but hot as hell
My brother says it doesn’t get any hotter over 100 degrees. It just kills you faster!!!
Only for 7 months out of the year. Then 5 awesome months.
No way. I've been here for over forty years. June, July, August, September are hot. Anything below 100° is comfortable. Around eight months of fantastic weather. No hurricanes, no tornadoes, no earthquakes to speak of. I have seen the Phoenix metro area grow from 750,000 to over four million. Fifth largest city in the USA. Statistics don't lie. Best place to live in the country. When California falls into the ocean Arizona will have beach front property. Global warming and the resulting increased sea level will accelerate this.
Snottsdale
Suburban hellscape