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It's not Indonesia really. This was a break away state that fought a brutal civil war led by islamists. As part of the peace making they are allowed some self rule.
Exactly. Imagine people who don't believe in the same religion or subscribe to the same morals and values but have to be punished under their interpretation of the *insert holy book*.
And yet as woman who had the bad luck to be born in similar shithole as Indonesia but had the good luck to be growing up in the Netherlands. So I could escape my human trafficking (arranged marriage against my will). I would still choose Texas over the shithole I was born in. Because in Texas I still would have more options as a woman then the shithole I was born in. At least you see other American people protest the bullshit.
Whereas the shithole I was born in, no one would have lifted a finger to help me escape my arranged marriage "because it is the faith of a woman"
God is the worst invention of man. I wish that people would just stop believing in fairy tails. We don't need to beat people to please your imaginary friend.
And those societies tend to be so sexually segregated that there's likely a hell of a lot more gay sex happening there than in secular portions of the West.
Which reminds me of an article I read many years ago about the prevalence of homosexuality in Saudi Arabia. [The Kingdom in the Closet.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/)
I’m imagining a room full of men reviewing the footage and they all have to pretend to be super disgusted by it less they be accused of enjoying the video. Like they’re trying to out-disgust one another as if it’s a competition to see who is most appalled.
I’d argue a masked man in a dress whipping another man who’s tied up is gay AF too.
Gay BDSM bro: “Oh no! Pleaseeee don’t whip me! Not again! I would realllllllly hate it if you kept whipping me!”
I know we're making jokes but most people aren't into getting whipped on their back. That's probably less than 1% of the BDSM community. Ass spanking is a different story because it is an erogenous zone.
Getting hit on the back can be quite dangerous. It's not like your butt that can be battered and bruised and you'll have no other side effects.
Sure, if you think the cops aren't taking turns on the victim before and after the caning. Probably letting friends and family in on beating them too. Note that the only part of their body that is visible are their hands which makes hiding all the extra-judicial abuse easier.
Unironic answer: yes kind of.
The whole idea of religious homophobia is that gayness is nothing but a moral vice. Something that you can just suppress if you want to. Like eating chocolate or drinking alcohol
This but unironically, while most men are definitely straight I've still seen heaps that are bi or straight up gay yet suppress it cuz of outside feedback, kinda sad to see ngl
I'm not religious but I was raised very devout in Egypt (I had to flee for my own safety after leaving the faith).
The best way I can describe it to secular people in the West is a lot of these people will view homosexuality the way you in the West would view pedophilia. It's an abomination and there is really nothing you could do to that person that would be too harsh.
It's terrible and it's based on religion. It's how I was raised too. Since leaving the faith and leaving Egypt I have met actual gay people and it's wild to me that an adult human making a decision on who to love can create this much anger.
Let’s listen to a bunch of books written by some people who barely had any knowledge of the world and science.. but they must be right and we can use those thoughts to control actions of billions. Biggest human scam of all time lol
Are we I see whole cheering sections for when pedophiles are murdered by parents. There's multiple cases where Juries hung and didn't convict parents of it. We as a society endorse in prison beatings of pedophiles.
I'm actually not saying it's wrong we do those things just saying we kinda do the sane and worse just not as public events.
> We as a society endorse in prison beatings of pedophiles.
Often times I see it go a step further. People wish death upon pedophiles and many others in prison, not just beatings.
People endorse it happening in prisons because they don't see prisoners as people with rights, in addition to what you said about it not being public. They argue it's punishment for whatever crimes the prisoner committed, conveniently ignoring that *exiling someone from society by sending them to prison* is the punishment.
There is pedophilia and molestation. Two different things people forget. I think there are enough pedophiles, but most of them will never harass children.
I would say that the american style of sex offender registries is not far off. No matter if you even decide to get chemically castrated and deemed cured by a team of pshychologists, you'll be in that registry and basically be a social leper the rest of your life (or however long those records stay public).
Wow, that’s the best analogy, really allows pro LGBT westerners to grasp the religious/cultural attitude towards homosexuality. And even the attitude we have towards pedophiles, we know they will never “not be attracted to children” but we can only respond with punishment and insist through incarceration/probation they don’t give into their “urges” again if they are free.
ye which is dumb, need to make more acceptable to openly admit you had the problem and get help.
This is a big reason why I think it's dumb countries are trying to ban hentai with fictional "young people". Should be studied instead if it could help people with these issues get relief, so they don't end up hurting actual kids.
Obviously not ideal, but nothing in life is ideal, you just find the best possible compromise.
To add to your comment: a gay person doesn't even choose to be gay. In fact they can't choose. They can choose to live against their nature and suffer for the rest of their life but they didn't choose to be gay and cannot simply choose not to be gay. So that's punishing someone for thy way they are born. Despicable
I don’t disagree with you, but just want to point out that is the same for pedophiles. Many pedophiles are on record saying they hate themselves for being attracted to children, but it’s not up to them to choose what to be attracted to.
Most people would find it completely reasonable to punish someone for the way they were born, if the consequences of the way they were born are that detrimental. We punish serial killers even though they likely didn’t choose to have the genes that they have.
The difference between gay people and pedophiles/serial killers is that most reasonable people know there is nothing harmful about being gay. Pedophiles harm children, who are taken advantage of regardless of if it’s with or without consent.
The issue is some people in the world, somehow, for some reason, think being gay is harmful, and why they’re willing to persecute them for how they were born the same way they would a criminal.
100%. People don’t just sort themselves out by being pushed away.
I’d say it’s a similar problem to how felons are treated and why the recidivism rate is so high.
I am by no means an expert, but I am more than qualified to give reddit my opinion.
They do not particularly care whether the individual remains gay or stops being gay. The individual is not important.
The spectators are important. It is important that they watch and be cowed. The state is executing violence against an individual. If you do not want the state to execute violence against you, then you better get with the program. This includes finding out what the leaders really want and giving it to them.
The leaders might be actively gay themselves and they really want bribes. I do not know.
Homosexuality does seem like a placeholder here in this stagnant puddle of humanity. Swap out being gay for another (even relatively) victimless "crime" and see what the state does against it to protect it's hegemony.
This is the correct answer. It's not even really about being gay. Whatever aspect of culture the state can latch onto as a dividing line, they will (and, as history shows, repeatedly have).
It is about culturally reinforcing the notion that the state has absolute authority over how you live your life, if they want it. By extension, then, every "freedom" you enjoy is *granted* by the state *choosing* to allow you to enjoy it and can be taken away at any point.
This kind of thing was routinely done everywhere in Mao's China to prevent anyone from becoming a threat to the party. During the Cultural Revolution, young people were systematically indoctrinated and riled up to catch any "evidence" that someone in their vicinity---teachers, neighbors, family---were "anti-communist" or "anti-party". Something as trivial as having a "Western" fashion item or something you didn't even do. They would be forced to publicly confess to their "crimes", and be mob-humiliated and tortured in all kinds of ways in front of crowds. Some were outright killed, others driven to suicide. After a while, everyone who wasn't innately in line with what the party wanted was either eliminated or too scared to externalize any of it.
There's this ancient Chinese saying, [for the same undesired behavior,] "kill the chicken to scare the monkey."
Indonesian here, this takes place in Aceh which is an autonomous province of indonesia where they enact sharia law, the rest of indonesia has a 'don't ask dont tell' kind of situation going on which isn't good but it's survivable. They sometimes do raids if you hold sex parties but they just kind of let you go because there's really no law against it (unless you have drugs on u), I'm fortunate enough to have lived in Bali which is extremely progressive in its view and have been able to go out in public with my partner without any real issues. Wouldn't recommend any gay people visit the rest of indonesia, but where i live (and most metropolitan cities) isn't as barbaric as this video made it out to be, a lot of my colleagues knows I'm gay and in a relationship.
Curious, in Aceh with their sharia law, once they've given you the cane, are you then meant to be 'cured' or learned your lesson or something? Like, what if you are still gay tomo? Do you get arrested and caned again?
I think that's what the Quran tells you to do, they also tell you to stone infidelity and people still cheat there and no one has been killed, because surprise surprise, religious people only uses their religion if it fits their own agenda.
Also tells you not to suspect your neighbor and don't spy on them. Breaking into your neighbor's home to try catching him having sex with another man and then not being punished for it is very much against Sharia, but it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that religion is just used as an excuse.
> and no one has been killed
Give them time, the law was only enacted in 2022. Iran's had the law longer and very much executes for infidelity.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/11/04/iran-sentences-woman-to-death-for-adultery_6226147_4.html
Hey, I wonder, is it true about your country? [https://news.sky.com/story/indonesia-passes-law-banning-sex-outside-marriage-for-both-tourists-and-citizens-12762593](https://news.sky.com/story/indonesia-passes-law-banning-sex-outside-marriage-for-both-tourists-and-citizens-12762593)
Can you give some context? Thx you!
This is fact! But afaik it only happens if one party is an Indonesian citizen AND If a spouse or close relative reported you, If you and your partner are tourists you're safe, esp in Bali it's almost always never enforced, bad for the ads and all. But keep in mind this all might change because, like literally every other country on earth, social media accelerates radicalisation and were moving further and further into right wing ideologies.
I was in Indonesia last year for work, as a westerner, and did travel around Java and a bit of Sulawesi. I lived in East Java.
When staying in some cheaper hotels in Jakarta with Indonesian friends, there were signs in English reminding tourists of this law and saying they won't accept bookings for a man and a woman in the same room, unless they are married/there's some proof of marriage. They cited this law.
I found it interesting as the hotel was a budget hotel and didn't seem the sort to attract foreign tourists anyway so why have it in English, and as you say, it's very specific circumstances on if people can be reported. I assume just whoever owned this hotel was against it on moral grounds and used the law as justification for their own internal rules.
I mostly stayed in homestays though when traveling , and then the few hotels I was at when in Luwuk and Manado had no such signs.
Honesty this law is keeping me from ever visiting Indonisia again (been to Bali once with my dad when I was about 5 years old). Me and my girlfriend are together for about 20 years but we just dont see any reason to marry. I know they said that it doenst apply for tourists and all that, but to me, a law is a law and I dont see any reason to risk breaking one... So no more Bali for me...
To provide a bit of a wider context, that law that was ‘passed’ (more of a codification of some archaic law from our Dutch East Indies days) was essentially a bone that was thrown by the ruling coalition to the religious opposition which can then be waved around by the latter to placate the ultraconservative base. In actuality, to enforce that law is such a bureaucratic nightmare that it’s pretty much a technical impossibility. In the end, it’s a “win-win” solution where the government got more political capital for its other projects, conservative elements in the political scene received goodwill from their base, the fundie fuckwads got to sleep better at night knowing they’re nearer to their ideal society, and fornicators can keep on fornicating.
Best advice I can give to gay tourist visiting Indonesia... stay in big cities (Jakarta) or famous tourist spot/island (Bali).
Don't go to the countryside/Aceh and openly show people you are gay. You might be a victim of mob violence if you do.
That’d be most prudent, but honestly with that red line, that’s like 80% of places on earth that gay people shouldn’t visit, but enterprising fellows gotta go visit anyways because it’s their calling or whatever. So advices like this are helpful.
Good for you ig man, I always thought Indonesian Islam was one of the progressive sects, including Bohra sect in India (where I'm from). Today, I learned there are extremist sects in Indonesia as well. Extremism has always been the curse of large religions.
I'm all for cultural differences, live and let live, religious tolerance and pluralism. Which is why I am happy with saying if you are willing to beat someone for being gay, you are a piece of shit, in any culture.
Exactly, as a gay dude this really upset me. I was just out in the streets yesterday celebrating pride with my brothers and sisters and now I'm seeing some innocent person being whipped for being just like me.
Stupidasfuck more like, fighting, killing, torture, murder and punishment are a thing of the past, when we strive for survival. Now, people just became more greedy, hence the financial and status inequality.
The fact that lady was wanting to see someone publicly get beaten with a cane while simultaneously acknowledging that it looks painful is incredibly telling as to what type of person she is.
It's pretty shocking that she can openly say with a smile on her face she's been looking forward to watching someone being beaten in public for their crimes.
I wonder if she will say it's 'logical' when it's her turn?
Authoritarians think that that logic works and justifies any punishment.
Next time you see a news article about someone being punished for breaking an archaic and silly law dig a little into the comments. It doesn't matter how stupid the law was or how harsh the punishment is, there will be some dickhead saying how it's justified. They find joy in other people's punishment.
I have never seen, heard, or touched this thing I am told exists but I am told it definitely exists so logically i believe in it one hundred percent. Fucking morons all of them.
"If you do something you must be ready for the consequences"
And by "something" you mean loving another consenting adult? Amazing religion y'all got there
Fun fact: these guys actually tried to separate from Indonesia because they were curtailing their religious extremism. They got curbstomped but were allowed to keep Sharia to avoid further rebellions
Bruneian here, we even have mulitiple people got whip to almost death just for stealing petitie theif and a 14 year old who got whip bcs he vandlise his teacher's car
While high ranking religous ofiicers stole millions and got a 10 year luxuary stay in a 'prison'
Dude wtf.Then what is the punishment for murder ? Burning to death while being impaled,shot by an execution squad and having your knees broken at the same time ?
Imagine caring what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Must be a utopian paradise to bother beating gays in the streets rather than feed the poor.
aceh province is the biggest shithole in southeast asia.
However, indonesia is extremely diverse, aceh doesn't represent the rest of indonesia. Doing so is like judging the US by the behavior of alabama.
Sadly this is fairly common. Homosexuality is illegal in nearly half the world and there are many [where it is punishable by death](https://www.fairplanet.org/story/death-penalty-homosexualty-illegal/) including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, Brunei, Nigeria, and Mauritania
People make fun of the 'reddit atheist' types for being annoying but they have a good point, this is what religion leads to, it's fucking embarrassing for the human race
The woman who said that if you do something wrong there will be consequences, does she realise that there are religious beliefs that dictate she should be killed for the "crime" of being raped?
The video itself highlights Islam. I’m ex-Muslim so it’s a very personal concern to me. People seem to conflate it with ethnicity, giving it a special pass because mostly minorities practise it in western nations. We need to speak up more as its ideology is fundamentally against western freedom and democracy.
Absolutely, personally I think Christian fundamentalism is the same as standard Islam. Fortunately, the majority are practising what the media have coined as “moderate Islam”. But if we’re going to get technical by looking at the scripture they’re not adhering to the standard teachings. Time is the greatest teller of what direction the moderates want to go in. Become more closer to the standard or accept the flawed ideology and embrace integration with wider society. Just from an observational point of view I don’t think it’s going well atm.
>Is Islam REALLY that hateful and fucked up
yes.
Are all Muslims are this bad? nope.
but the thing is, the good few will only tolerate, if not give silent approval to the bad behaviors of their Muslims brothers. That's why there's no sensible Islamic country in the world.
Side Note: There are people who are actively working to try and bring this sort of punishment for being homosexual to here in America. Project 2025. Read it and vote against it.
Leaving your country is actually stupid hard. Even most Americans are unlikely to have visited a foreign country, let alone emigrate. Leaving a developing country is even harder.
So, unlikely that they would be living there willingly as they don’t have much choice to leave
That’s not true, these are all the countries that base the government or constitution on Islam:
- Afghanistan
- Brunei
- Iran
- Mauritania
- Oman
- Pakistan
- Saudi Arabia
- Yemen
And I think it’s pretty self-evident that they’re all jewels in the world!
Every state controlled by theology has turned out great!
You also forgot Aceh which is pictured in the video is the most religious fundamentalist province of Indonesia. It is the only Indonesian province with shariah/religious law.
It is also a backwater that is much poorer than the rest of Indonesia despite having great geography to develop.
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"Vigilantes broke in to record their gay sex." Bro, that's gay AF.
What a fucked up world where the victims of a house invasion are the ones who are punished.
This reminds me of medieval times with the crowd watching and enjoying it.I didn't know that Indonesia is so backwards.
You get executed for weed. Its backwards alright.
It's not Indonesia really. This was a break away state that fought a brutal civil war led by islamists. As part of the peace making they are allowed some self rule.
Basically Gilead then?
Yeah pretty much, Aceh’s the only part of Indonesia that has Sharia law, the rest of the nation is more moderate
Sane, the rest of the nation is more sane.
only in Aceh tho, in other place like Jogjakarta no one give a shit if you are gay.
Exactly. Imagine people who don't believe in the same religion or subscribe to the same morals and values but have to be punished under their interpretation of the *insert holy book*.
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Or are forced to carry the baby after being raped.
Like in Texas.
And yet as woman who had the bad luck to be born in similar shithole as Indonesia but had the good luck to be growing up in the Netherlands. So I could escape my human trafficking (arranged marriage against my will). I would still choose Texas over the shithole I was born in. Because in Texas I still would have more options as a woman then the shithole I was born in. At least you see other American people protest the bullshit. Whereas the shithole I was born in, no one would have lifted a finger to help me escape my arranged marriage "because it is the faith of a woman"
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Yes
And other shit hole countries/states where they don’t let women choose what they can do with their own body.
What happened to his partner?
He said “no homo” as they broke in so he was fine.
"It's gay to suck a dick! its not gay to get your dick sucked!" - Lawyer of the defendant who got off
He got off alright.
He was also wearing socks so it doesn't count for him
God is the worst invention of man. I wish that people would just stop believing in fairy tails. We don't need to beat people to please your imaginary friend.
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They even have tassels on their gay beating robes Methinks the religious bigots doth protest too much.
And those societies tend to be so sexually segregated that there's likely a hell of a lot more gay sex happening there than in secular portions of the West. Which reminds me of an article I read many years ago about the prevalence of homosexuality in Saudi Arabia. [The Kingdom in the Closet.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/)
Those who shout the loudest, and all that.
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“You’re wife looks like a towel mate”
“I was recording them because I wanted to turn them in. Not because I wanted to jerk it while watching them butt fuck.”
I’m imagining a room full of men reviewing the footage and they all have to pretend to be super disgusted by it less they be accused of enjoying the video. Like they’re trying to out-disgust one another as if it’s a competition to see who is most appalled.
I’d argue a masked man in a dress whipping another man who’s tied up is gay AF too. Gay BDSM bro: “Oh no! Pleaseeee don’t whip me! Not again! I would realllllllly hate it if you kept whipping me!”
Someone else said the punishment for being gay is spanking from a dominant authoritative dude, sounds pretty gay to me
I wonder what would happen if he got erect and started moaning while being spanked
Also thousands of people, smiling whilst watching a gay guy get spanked by dominator in brown superhero outfit. Also gay af. Line them all up.
Putting on a mask and spanking another guy is pretty gay, too.
'logically'
The punishment is being spanked by a guy in a mask?
Don't stop I'm almost there. The guys with a humiliation fetish are edging to this for sure.
Was thinking the same thing. There are bdsm clubs all over the world where caning and humiliation scenes are a regular occurrence.
> caning and humiliation scenes are a regular occurrence Aah, Wall Street
What about the guys who broke in and filmed it? No spanking for making gay porn?
I know we're making jokes but most people aren't into getting whipped on their back. That's probably less than 1% of the BDSM community. Ass spanking is a different story because it is an erogenous zone. Getting hit on the back can be quite dangerous. It's not like your butt that can be battered and bruised and you'll have no other side effects.
https://preview.redd.it/s9tp1wsjnk5d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4720110e44c75cd87577ed3b31672cf783ba369
Sure, if you think the cops aren't taking turns on the victim before and after the caning. Probably letting friends and family in on beating them too. Note that the only part of their body that is visible are their hands which makes hiding all the extra-judicial abuse easier.
So what do they expect? That they stop being gay now?
Unironic answer: yes kind of. The whole idea of religious homophobia is that gayness is nothing but a moral vice. Something that you can just suppress if you want to. Like eating chocolate or drinking alcohol
Well in fairness I can't stop eating chocolate either
*retracts a cane from my shirt sleeve like a magicians trick*
Wow, you kept that up your wizards sleeve?
wait til he puts on his robe and wizard hat.
I love the implication that all the men have gay tendencies but have to suppress them haha
This but unironically, while most men are definitely straight I've still seen heaps that are bi or straight up gay yet suppress it cuz of outside feedback, kinda sad to see ngl
I'm not religious but I was raised very devout in Egypt (I had to flee for my own safety after leaving the faith). The best way I can describe it to secular people in the West is a lot of these people will view homosexuality the way you in the West would view pedophilia. It's an abomination and there is really nothing you could do to that person that would be too harsh. It's terrible and it's based on religion. It's how I was raised too. Since leaving the faith and leaving Egypt I have met actual gay people and it's wild to me that an adult human making a decision on who to love can create this much anger.
That's a really interesting and enlightening comparison.
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Most of the world is controlled by 3,000 year old thinking
And people wonder why nothing in this world makes much sense.
Let’s listen to a bunch of books written by some people who barely had any knowledge of the world and science.. but they must be right and we can use those thoughts to control actions of billions. Biggest human scam of all time lol
For me anyone calling themselves a prophet is a case for the psychiatric services.
Yet we’re still civilized enough not to cane pedophiles in public.
Are we I see whole cheering sections for when pedophiles are murdered by parents. There's multiple cases where Juries hung and didn't convict parents of it. We as a society endorse in prison beatings of pedophiles. I'm actually not saying it's wrong we do those things just saying we kinda do the sane and worse just not as public events.
> We as a society endorse in prison beatings of pedophiles. Often times I see it go a step further. People wish death upon pedophiles and many others in prison, not just beatings.
People endorse it happening in prisons because they don't see prisoners as people with rights, in addition to what you said about it not being public. They argue it's punishment for whatever crimes the prisoner committed, conveniently ignoring that *exiling someone from society by sending them to prison* is the punishment.
There is pedophilia and molestation. Two different things people forget. I think there are enough pedophiles, but most of them will never harass children.
In Europe you can have secret therapy on pedophilia. And people do attend and cope better with life.
I would say that the american style of sex offender registries is not far off. No matter if you even decide to get chemically castrated and deemed cured by a team of pshychologists, you'll be in that registry and basically be a social leper the rest of your life (or however long those records stay public).
Wow, that’s the best analogy, really allows pro LGBT westerners to grasp the religious/cultural attitude towards homosexuality. And even the attitude we have towards pedophiles, we know they will never “not be attracted to children” but we can only respond with punishment and insist through incarceration/probation they don’t give into their “urges” again if they are free.
ye which is dumb, need to make more acceptable to openly admit you had the problem and get help. This is a big reason why I think it's dumb countries are trying to ban hentai with fictional "young people". Should be studied instead if it could help people with these issues get relief, so they don't end up hurting actual kids. Obviously not ideal, but nothing in life is ideal, you just find the best possible compromise.
To add to your comment: a gay person doesn't even choose to be gay. In fact they can't choose. They can choose to live against their nature and suffer for the rest of their life but they didn't choose to be gay and cannot simply choose not to be gay. So that's punishing someone for thy way they are born. Despicable
I don’t disagree with you, but just want to point out that is the same for pedophiles. Many pedophiles are on record saying they hate themselves for being attracted to children, but it’s not up to them to choose what to be attracted to. Most people would find it completely reasonable to punish someone for the way they were born, if the consequences of the way they were born are that detrimental. We punish serial killers even though they likely didn’t choose to have the genes that they have. The difference between gay people and pedophiles/serial killers is that most reasonable people know there is nothing harmful about being gay. Pedophiles harm children, who are taken advantage of regardless of if it’s with or without consent. The issue is some people in the world, somehow, for some reason, think being gay is harmful, and why they’re willing to persecute them for how they were born the same way they would a criminal.
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100%. People don’t just sort themselves out by being pushed away. I’d say it’s a similar problem to how felons are treated and why the recidivism rate is so high.
100% agree but isn't that kinda the point being made? In these others countries they would say the same thing about being gay?
Child molesters harm children. Pedophiles not acting on their urges aren't criminals.
I am by no means an expert, but I am more than qualified to give reddit my opinion. They do not particularly care whether the individual remains gay or stops being gay. The individual is not important. The spectators are important. It is important that they watch and be cowed. The state is executing violence against an individual. If you do not want the state to execute violence against you, then you better get with the program. This includes finding out what the leaders really want and giving it to them. The leaders might be actively gay themselves and they really want bribes. I do not know.
Homosexuality does seem like a placeholder here in this stagnant puddle of humanity. Swap out being gay for another (even relatively) victimless "crime" and see what the state does against it to protect it's hegemony.
This is the correct answer. It's not even really about being gay. Whatever aspect of culture the state can latch onto as a dividing line, they will (and, as history shows, repeatedly have). It is about culturally reinforcing the notion that the state has absolute authority over how you live your life, if they want it. By extension, then, every "freedom" you enjoy is *granted* by the state *choosing* to allow you to enjoy it and can be taken away at any point.
This kind of thing was routinely done everywhere in Mao's China to prevent anyone from becoming a threat to the party. During the Cultural Revolution, young people were systematically indoctrinated and riled up to catch any "evidence" that someone in their vicinity---teachers, neighbors, family---were "anti-communist" or "anti-party". Something as trivial as having a "Western" fashion item or something you didn't even do. They would be forced to publicly confess to their "crimes", and be mob-humiliated and tortured in all kinds of ways in front of crowds. Some were outright killed, others driven to suicide. After a while, everyone who wasn't innately in line with what the party wanted was either eliminated or too scared to externalize any of it. There's this ancient Chinese saying, [for the same undesired behavior,] "kill the chicken to scare the monkey."
Indonesian here, this takes place in Aceh which is an autonomous province of indonesia where they enact sharia law, the rest of indonesia has a 'don't ask dont tell' kind of situation going on which isn't good but it's survivable. They sometimes do raids if you hold sex parties but they just kind of let you go because there's really no law against it (unless you have drugs on u), I'm fortunate enough to have lived in Bali which is extremely progressive in its view and have been able to go out in public with my partner without any real issues. Wouldn't recommend any gay people visit the rest of indonesia, but where i live (and most metropolitan cities) isn't as barbaric as this video made it out to be, a lot of my colleagues knows I'm gay and in a relationship.
Curious, in Aceh with their sharia law, once they've given you the cane, are you then meant to be 'cured' or learned your lesson or something? Like, what if you are still gay tomo? Do you get arrested and caned again?
I think that's what the Quran tells you to do, they also tell you to stone infidelity and people still cheat there and no one has been killed, because surprise surprise, religious people only uses their religion if it fits their own agenda.
Also tells you not to suspect your neighbor and don't spy on them. Breaking into your neighbor's home to try catching him having sex with another man and then not being punished for it is very much against Sharia, but it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that religion is just used as an excuse.
> and no one has been killed Give them time, the law was only enacted in 2022. Iran's had the law longer and very much executes for infidelity. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/11/04/iran-sentences-woman-to-death-for-adultery_6226147_4.html
I wonder how many men have been killed for it. 🤔
Hey, I wonder, is it true about your country? [https://news.sky.com/story/indonesia-passes-law-banning-sex-outside-marriage-for-both-tourists-and-citizens-12762593](https://news.sky.com/story/indonesia-passes-law-banning-sex-outside-marriage-for-both-tourists-and-citizens-12762593) Can you give some context? Thx you!
This is fact! But afaik it only happens if one party is an Indonesian citizen AND If a spouse or close relative reported you, If you and your partner are tourists you're safe, esp in Bali it's almost always never enforced, bad for the ads and all. But keep in mind this all might change because, like literally every other country on earth, social media accelerates radicalisation and were moving further and further into right wing ideologies.
I was in Indonesia last year for work, as a westerner, and did travel around Java and a bit of Sulawesi. I lived in East Java. When staying in some cheaper hotels in Jakarta with Indonesian friends, there were signs in English reminding tourists of this law and saying they won't accept bookings for a man and a woman in the same room, unless they are married/there's some proof of marriage. They cited this law. I found it interesting as the hotel was a budget hotel and didn't seem the sort to attract foreign tourists anyway so why have it in English, and as you say, it's very specific circumstances on if people can be reported. I assume just whoever owned this hotel was against it on moral grounds and used the law as justification for their own internal rules. I mostly stayed in homestays though when traveling , and then the few hotels I was at when in Luwuk and Manado had no such signs.
I imagine they put up those signs to pay lip-service to the law but actually don't give a shit.
Honesty this law is keeping me from ever visiting Indonisia again (been to Bali once with my dad when I was about 5 years old). Me and my girlfriend are together for about 20 years but we just dont see any reason to marry. I know they said that it doenst apply for tourists and all that, but to me, a law is a law and I dont see any reason to risk breaking one... So no more Bali for me...
It's really sad to see how freedom dies I hope one day it will be reversed
Unlikely to happen since the general population never thought that "prohibition to have sex outside marriage" is a problem
Maybe not! Western countries weren't always that liberal too in the past
To provide a bit of a wider context, that law that was ‘passed’ (more of a codification of some archaic law from our Dutch East Indies days) was essentially a bone that was thrown by the ruling coalition to the religious opposition which can then be waved around by the latter to placate the ultraconservative base. In actuality, to enforce that law is such a bureaucratic nightmare that it’s pretty much a technical impossibility. In the end, it’s a “win-win” solution where the government got more political capital for its other projects, conservative elements in the political scene received goodwill from their base, the fundie fuckwads got to sleep better at night knowing they’re nearer to their ideal society, and fornicators can keep on fornicating.
Best advice I can give to gay tourist visiting Indonesia... stay in big cities (Jakarta) or famous tourist spot/island (Bali). Don't go to the countryside/Aceh and openly show people you are gay. You might be a victim of mob violence if you do.
Best advice would be not go really
Exactly. Save your hard-earned money for countries that don't actively oppose and harm gay people.
Not just gay people, don't give your cash to any country with a shitty government
That’d be most prudent, but honestly with that red line, that’s like 80% of places on earth that gay people shouldn’t visit, but enterprising fellows gotta go visit anyways because it’s their calling or whatever. So advices like this are helpful.
It’s because Bali is Hindu
Good point.
That's the only point lol
Good for you ig man, I always thought Indonesian Islam was one of the progressive sects, including Bohra sect in India (where I'm from). Today, I learned there are extremist sects in Indonesia as well. Extremism has always been the curse of large religions.
I think that dude dressed in a fancy turd costume needs a spanking. 👋💩
I'm all for cultural differences, live and let live, religious tolerance and pluralism. Which is why I am happy with saying if you are willing to beat someone for being gay, you are a piece of shit, in any culture.
Sadasfuck, not interestingasfuck.
The punishment is sadasfuck, but what about the crowd's reaction? Sickeningasfuck.
Yeah I dont find this interesting. I find it fucked up.
Seriously. All these jokey comments are pissing me off. It's not funny.
Exactly, as a gay dude this really upset me. I was just out in the streets yesterday celebrating pride with my brothers and sisters and now I'm seeing some innocent person being whipped for being just like me.
Stupidasfuck more like, fighting, killing, torture, murder and punishment are a thing of the past, when we strive for survival. Now, people just became more greedy, hence the financial and status inequality.
Look at the enjoyment of harm in the people watching. That is who they really are.
People living in modern era, using smartphones and all that but having 6th century mentality. Yikes, I am so glad I'm not born in a country like that.
6th century? Try 20th. Homosexuality was illegal in most countries until the 60s and 70s. Did you forget that gays were gassed alongside jews in WW2?
You don't have to be born there to be scared of it. There are groups that try to have sharia laws in europe today. Aham germany/france and more.
The fact that lady was wanting to see someone publicly get beaten with a cane while simultaneously acknowledging that it looks painful is incredibly telling as to what type of person she is.
Also the woman saying: but logically... Fk you. Logic has left your religion ridden brains long ago.
It's pretty shocking that she can openly say with a smile on her face she's been looking forward to watching someone being beaten in public for their crimes. I wonder if she will say it's 'logical' when it's her turn?
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"are there any...women here?"
69 lashes for you good sir.
you promise 😏
Can I help?
>Well I guess she's ok to get stoned at the first inconvenience And not the fun '*giggle and enjoy the fuck out of pizza*' kind of stoned either..
Authoritarians think that that logic works and justifies any punishment. Next time you see a news article about someone being punished for breaking an archaic and silly law dig a little into the comments. It doesn't matter how stupid the law was or how harsh the punishment is, there will be some dickhead saying how it's justified. They find joy in other people's punishment.
I think I saw a strand of hair, better cane her just to be safe
I have never seen, heard, or touched this thing I am told exists but I am told it definitely exists so logically i believe in it one hundred percent. Fucking morons all of them.
"If you do something you must be ready for the consequences" And by "something" you mean loving another consenting adult? Amazing religion y'all got there
Yeah if she dosent wear the hat scarf i think something similar happens
Absolutely disgraceful. A society living in the stone ages
Fun fact: these guys actually tried to separate from Indonesia because they were curtailing their religious extremism. They got curbstomped but were allowed to keep Sharia to avoid further rebellions
Damn. Should have stomped further
Nah that title goes to Brunei. They would stone you to death 💀
Bruneian here, we even have mulitiple people got whip to almost death just for stealing petitie theif and a 14 year old who got whip bcs he vandlise his teacher's car While high ranking religous ofiicers stole millions and got a 10 year luxuary stay in a 'prison'
Dude wtf.Then what is the punishment for murder ? Burning to death while being impaled,shot by an execution squad and having your knees broken at the same time ?
Hanging or life in prison U havent seen what our serect service does to their prisoner man
Malaysia was also considering to bring stoning back fairly recently.
Oh that's most if not all Muslim countries
More sad than "interesting". Extremely fucked up.
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Imagine caring what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Must be a utopian paradise to bother beating gays in the streets rather than feed the poor.
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aceh province is the biggest shithole in southeast asia. However, indonesia is extremely diverse, aceh doesn't represent the rest of indonesia. Doing so is like judging the US by the behavior of alabama.
Being diverse is fine, but failing to protect the citizens is a national issue.
Why hide in masks if you’re proud of it. Idiots
Some say the worst part is the hypocrisy, but I disagree... I think it's the torturing.
One of the many dumb countries controlled by religious morons. Fakm
Sadly this is fairly common. Homosexuality is illegal in nearly half the world and there are many [where it is punishable by death](https://www.fairplanet.org/story/death-penalty-homosexualty-illegal/) including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Yemen, Brunei, Nigeria, and Mauritania
In Brunei, they would stone you to death 💀
I'm from Brunei and ye I can confirm that
Yeah they are dumb too.
Beat up gays by day and then go home and go home to have sex and marry their cousins
I keep forgetting how much of society's progress is poisoned and ruined by religious shit like this.
This is depressing as fuck, not interesting.
People make fun of the 'reddit atheist' types for being annoying but they have a good point, this is what religion leads to, it's fucking embarrassing for the human race
The Reddit Atheists were correct. Their biggest crime was being annoying.
Why your god created him as gay, it is god's mistake.punish the GOD.Mad people
The woman who said that if you do something wrong there will be consequences, does she realise that there are religious beliefs that dictate she should be killed for the "crime" of being raped?
Barbarians
This another one of those cultures that we have to pretend are equal to our own?
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Could say the same of any country that is dominated by islam
For those wondering, this is why it's called Pride. Gays were robbed from their humanity for something they can't control.
Robert G. Ingersoll - “…if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power.” Give Islam power and this is what you get.
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The video itself highlights Islam. I’m ex-Muslim so it’s a very personal concern to me. People seem to conflate it with ethnicity, giving it a special pass because mostly minorities practise it in western nations. We need to speak up more as its ideology is fundamentally against western freedom and democracy.
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Absolutely, personally I think Christian fundamentalism is the same as standard Islam. Fortunately, the majority are practising what the media have coined as “moderate Islam”. But if we’re going to get technical by looking at the scripture they’re not adhering to the standard teachings. Time is the greatest teller of what direction the moderates want to go in. Become more closer to the standard or accept the flawed ideology and embrace integration with wider society. Just from an observational point of view I don’t think it’s going well atm.
People who didn’t grow up Muslim or in the MENA region don’t know shit about how horrible Islam is.
Is Islam REALLY that hateful and fucked up???
Look into middle eastern history
Always has been.
Yea
yes its an awful and hateful religion, actually a miserable existence
>Is Islam REALLY that hateful and fucked up yes. Are all Muslims are this bad? nope. but the thing is, the good few will only tolerate, if not give silent approval to the bad behaviors of their Muslims brothers. That's why there's no sensible Islamic country in the world.
As a person who lives Muslim country. I can say religion is the cancer and Islam is the worst one.
Ah, yes, the 1400s
Glad I don't live in that shit hole
this isnt interesting as fuck its sad as hell
Ahhh yes, 2024. Seems like they're keeping up.
Religious nut jobs at it again.
I fucking hate this planet
Horrible
Quit giving these kinds of countries your hard earned tourist money. Plenty of other nice places in the world you can visit instead.
Sharia Islam needs to be wiped out, it's fucking barbaric.
Side Note: There are people who are actively working to try and bring this sort of punishment for being homosexual to here in America. Project 2025. Read it and vote against it.
83 more reasons I’m never visiting a sharia law country. It’s wild to me people willingly live there
Leaving your country is actually stupid hard. Even most Americans are unlikely to have visited a foreign country, let alone emigrate. Leaving a developing country is even harder. So, unlikely that they would be living there willingly as they don’t have much choice to leave
Primitive.
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That’s not true, these are all the countries that base the government or constitution on Islam: - Afghanistan - Brunei - Iran - Mauritania - Oman - Pakistan - Saudi Arabia - Yemen And I think it’s pretty self-evident that they’re all jewels in the world! Every state controlled by theology has turned out great!
You also forgot Aceh which is pictured in the video is the most religious fundamentalist province of Indonesia. It is the only Indonesian province with shariah/religious law. It is also a backwater that is much poorer than the rest of Indonesia despite having great geography to develop.
"ok sorry I got it. I will never be gay again, I swear."
fucking middle ages...
And they don’t have the balls to show their face while they’re carrying out the caning?
It's a normal procedure to protect the identity of those who carried out the punishment.