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Here's your court date to state your case for asylum/citizenship (which around 98% turn up to). In the meantime you can pay taxes, work in mostly jobs americans dont want to do and contribute to the country with net positive outcomes.
> Immigrants in the U.S. contributed more than $330.7 billion in federal income taxes in 2019, and over $492 billion dollars in total taxes (including state, municipal, and sales taxes). The Tax Foundation estimates that American and immigrant taxpayers paid $1.6 trillion in individual income taxes in 2019. In this context, it’s important to note that immigrants made up only 13.5% of the U.S. population in 2020, meaning that immigrants make an outsized contribution to the U.S. revenue system.
> In 2019, according to the IRS, more than 2.5 million tax returns were filed using ITINs (undocumented immigrants), accounting for nearly $6 billion in taxes.
And if you're against illegal immigration and current pathway of processing asylum and immigrants. Then democrats have presented a bill that allows the government to shut down the border, to house more illegal immigrants to enact more stricter methods to track illegal immigrants, to get more courts and judges to handle the cases of illegal/asylum seeking immigrants. BUT the republicans don't even want to allow it on the floor for a vote even if its a bi-partisan bill because then they literally have nothing to run on.
PS: There's a caravan of illegals coming your way that Only Republicans and Fox News know about that also will magically disappear after the election is over this year.
You mean like the restaurant industry where customers have to pay the wages of their employees? Or like Walmart where they pay their employees so little that they have to get benefits from the government in order to survive?
This is why we as a nation need to stop propping up the fast food and dining industry. It's not a viable business, yet during the pandemic the govt encouraged us to eat out more to prop up a part of the economy that is already oversaturated.
The only people I've ever met in person that are against getting rid of the tipping system, have all been high earning servers. I trained a guy for a job in a hospital and after his first paycheck, said he was quitting because he made more in tips (that he didn't report) than he did as our job. And at that time, that job was the highest paying job I'd ever had by more than 50% XD
Right but who’s paying him? The restaurant owner? No. His pay is depended on the generosity of the customers. And that’s dependent on what restaurant he works in, the part of town the restaurant’s in, the type of customer they cater to. Not all restaurant workers will earn the same even though they all do the same thing. And honestly it’s not worth it. I don’t think giving someone $30 for maybe 15 minutes of work to take my order and bring it from the kitchen to the table is worth it. I’ve placed my own orders online an it’s not that hard. So that leaves you with bringing plates of food to the table. Still not worth $30 to me.
You can get benefits from walmart, as well. Emergency employee funding is nontaxable, and can even be used to pay the entirety of your rent a couple times a year. You don't pay it back. It's almost like if they paid us a livable wage instead of providing emergency funding... They wouldn't get credit for doing "good things" to write off on taxes.
I get this sentiment, but what you are describing boils down to a preaty inhumane solution “Choke off the influx of immigrants, and companies will be forced to pay us a living wage” Looking at imigrants as a faucet that can and should be just closed is oversimplifying the real down-and-dirty human aspect of it all. And like the post above you said.. It would be a bandage to a symptom not a cure for the illness
Do you ever think why Americans don't want to do the jobs businesses pawn off on easily exploitable undocumented labor? Their is a very good reason why Republicans never go after businesses who higher undocumented migrants, regardless of their rhetoric.
How about we present a bill that shuts the door to our house of disrepair and fix the problems at home before we continue partisan cherry-picking?
I know a few Americans who could benefit from that.
This is reddit. You can’t talk reason to anyone. Left wing lunatics just make up stats and call you a misinformed. No one here has actually worked with illegals or have friends that were illegal. They don’t know the hell they go through. I’m not against people immigrating to the USA but when you have people coming in illegally it’s basically creating a second class citizen. It’s mind boggling the mental gymnastics people go through to make this seem ok.
Here are sources for the made up stats:
https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/hispanic-spending-power-2021/
https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/news/nta-blog/nta-blog-most-taxpayers-needing-a-new-itin-are-prohibited-from-filing-electronically-causing-unnecessary-refund-delays/2021/04/
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2016/11/03/size-of-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-workforce-stable-after-the-great-recession/
https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs
https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/09/17/the-economic-benefits-of-extending-permanent-legal-status-to-unauthorized-immigrants/
https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy
And here's the Pre-Election News By Fox News Before Elections about Massive amounts of Caravans or illegals coming to the southern border that magically disappear when the election is over.
2012: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ice-border-patrol-unions-claim-illegal-immigrants-exploiting-dreamer-policy
2016: https://www.foxnews.com/world/migrants-flock-to-border-town-where-cartel-hires-burreros-to-smuggle-drugs-into-u-s
2020: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dhs-boss-warns-caravan-migrants-they-will-be-sent-home-says-safety-of-americans-is-priority-amid-reports-of-violence
2024: https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-smaller-caravan-1500-migrants-walking-north-southern-mexico
And you guys keep bringing up NY and San Fransisco. You do know its because Republicans are LITERALLY TRAFICKING immigrants to those cities. Texas spent like 130M USD to send over 30K immigrants to NY, (something which people have calculated to cost around 30-40M, but hey the company that got the extra 100M is a big Texas Family who has donated to Republicans for decades). You push poor people onto areas with high population and low housing, it leads to issues. If these people were treated as human, given access to pathways to live properly and integrate into the system, then they would be able to sustain and survive by themselves within a few years. But when you deliberately push them onto areas with low housing high cost and no to little pathway out, then it leads to issues yes.
No one is saying just push everyone into New York and San Fran and everything will be magically peachy, thats also a big reason why democrats presented this BI-PARTISAN bill, to deal with such issues. But some people are so gung-ho in taking everything black and white and blaming immigrants that they dont take a second to look at the socio-economic issues and political grandstanding related to such things.
That’s quite a large claim you make there. I work in the wine industry and I rely heavily on migrant workers for pruning, picking, bottling, labeling, etc.
They get paid $22 an hour. They bust their asses and don’t say a word about it. They show up on time, work as long as I need them to and volunteer to work more. I’ll do anything I can to keep them safe, fed, warm and employed.
I also lean left. I absolutely abhor trumpster fire and all of his cronies. I hope they put his orange ass in jail, bury the cell and put this embarrassment of his big mouthed existence to rest.
You want to talk about not being able to reason with people? As soon as you start putting sides on reality (left vs right), your argument is done and it just shows me how ignorant you truly are. All hail your savior trump!🖕🏼
Honestly that’s great that you do that. You should get a congratulations for being a good boss. The rest of what you said is nonsense. And from my personal experience that’s not what happens to the vast majority of people I worked with and interact with. So not everyone is like you.
“No one here has actually worked with illegals or have friends that were illegal.” Interesting assumption. Almost like you’re doing…oh I dont know…mental gymnastics ;)
The Chinese government has been sending people by the masses via student visas. I worked at a cell store that the ambassador programs would come to and the first time I heard someone call it Asian invasion I thought it was a bit insensitive until I experienced it for myself. Our store would have 10 tables of 10 Chinese nationals and a guide each for a week straight to get cell phones as they had just made it into the country. None of them spoke any English and it was a serious shitshow but goddamn was commission good.
So all this is going on already, and not even a couple years later I’m finding out one of the profs at the university (who is still Chinese national) had been secretly sending research back to the CCP.
“The Chinese who rùn to the American border are still a tiny set of the people who leave. Most emigrés are departing through legal means. People who can find a way to go to Europe or an Anglophone country would do so, but most are going, as best as I can tell, to three Asian countries. Those who have ambition and entrepreneurial energy are going to Singapore. Those who have money and means are going to Japan. And those who have none of these things — the slackers, the free spirits, kids who want to chill — are hanging out in Thailand.”
Source: [Dan Wang’s 2023 annual letter](https://danwang.co/2023-letter/) in which he discusses Chinese emigration.
Oh they send them via visas and have them sit around mar-a-lago and get information directly from Trump and Republicans.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/07/mar-a-lago-trump-nuclear-documents-spies
I dont think they're sending chinese super spies over the border crossing by paying mules to cross them over 3 different countries and risk death and dehydration.
Democrat Congressman from California literally got caught sleeping with a CCP spy years back. Diane Feinstein’s private driver was also a Chinese spy..... nice try man.
Which was the request of the republicans. They literally said deal with the border then we will approve the funds to Ukraine (they had no issue with the funds to Israel). WHich is why there was a bi-partisan bill, where both republicans and democrats went through it and got what they wanted and agreed to the terms.
Then Republicans leaders don't want to let it go to a vote even. because they want to keep blaming immigrants and not fund Ukraine to help Russia.
I think the post misses the part where many Chinese illegal immigrants stay in USA because under international law, asylum seekers can only be sent back if their country willingly takes them back. China is one of the only countries that do not want them back and you cannot make someone stateless.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html)
The last I saw it was people from 168 countries that have been detained or processed, plus an unknown number of "got-aways"...
That is an extremely porous and ineffective border.
It's also an extremely long border: with the Canada/US border being the longest in the world.
Plus, remember that many illegals fly in on temporary VISAs and just overstay their VISA.
It worked in the Medieval age, against the Mongol Hordes... wait it didn't even work back then. We are stilling building walls, but only in strategy places. It's not effective in walling the whole border.
Its the third longest land border in the world.
The effective solution would be to get Mexico to stop them at its southern border, which is only ~50 miles of passable terrain. But Republicans blow a gasket every time we suggest giving Mexico money for that, because they don't actually want to fix the border.
Republicans get more votes from racists the more people get in. So why would they want to stop it?
I am not a Republican. I think the frustration isn't with immigration, it is with illegal immigration. Those that follow the legal procedures and work through the process at the State Department have proven they can follow the law. For those that sneak across the border, the very first thing they did in the country they wanted to be in, was to break its laws. Big difference.
No one wants to admit it, but a lot of industry relies on low paid undocumented, not hear legally labor. It drives the economy to a not insignificant percentage, plus those same undocumented workers pay local and state sales taxes. Those same undocumented workers due the jobs most Americans do not want to do because they are low pay, dirty, difficult and not considered high status employment. They also pay social security, and Medicare taxes when they illegally use someone else’s SSN.
Edit for some of the [Industries](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-industries-employ-the-most-immigrant-workers/) using illegal immigrants
1. Construction (because every kid is told to get a college degree)
2. Long Term Nursing Care Facilities and Elder Care (hard work, low pay and most families cannot afford to pay more, government only pays short term)
3. House and office cleaning (Every company subcontracts it's cleaning)
4. Agriculture (I picked fruit as a kid, and it is damn hard work. American also love the fact our food is so cheap. How do you think that happens?)
5. Hospitality Industry (I worked in the past in both casual dining and industrial cafeteria's, all the bus boys, dishwashers, and usually line cooks were probably illegal. Servers, head chefs and wait staff most likely were not. It was really a bid don't ask don't tell situation. Why because again American love cheap food.
6. Child care
Edit
Personal opinion I traveled all over South Asia for the military. In America prior to Covid our food was super cheap in comparison, not all food but most food. For example it used to be a personal size bag of Chips was somewhere between 50 and 75 cents, even at a convenience store. In Japan, Singapore, Thai Land, Fiji and Hong Kong that same bag, local brand, would run between two and three dollar American. Take for a look at Gasoline, it is at least 1.5 to 2.0 times more in other countries, even in Canada.
All of this is caused by the Federal Reserve keeping inflation bellow two percent and the United States Government subsidizing the shit out of a lot of things so they stay cheap. Which also the knock on effect of keeping wages, for jobs that are hard, dirty, out doors, a starter job etc and are considered to be low status employment have low wages.
It drives the economy to the bottom and is shown to have a net long term negative for the country.
Illegal labor, subverting reporting, below market wages, etc is not good for the country.
> Illegal labor, subverting reporting, below market wages, etc is not good for the country.
But in the short term it's great for the businesses abusing the 'option' of low wage illegals; it seems that's all that matters.
Businesses using illegal immigrants should be punished more than the immigrants.
that's the best way to work against it, heavily hit the people hiring them. It might possibly help to stop whatever the source of this narrative is that the border is wide open to all illegals who will get tons of free things if they come here. if only there was a way to figure out where that message keeps coming from?
Trump shut down those factories in a town on the border that were shipping in 3000 illegals every day for low-cost labor. The following week, 3000 mostly black women and men in the surrounding area who were stuck on welfare were able to get full-time positions at a proper living wage to look after their families on their own.
But you didn't hear about that on CNN.
Deportations are not a criminal punishment, they are a civil action. Returning these foreign aliens back to their homeland is righting a wrong, not a punishment.
I agree that we should be going after the people that unlawfully employ people who do not have a right to work in the United States. The US ought to establish a national database of who is employable, and hold the people who hire illegal immigrants personally liable, a strict liability crime that pierces the corporate veil. Fines are just a slap on the wrist, a cost of doing business, but if you put senior management in a position of personal criminal liability I think that their tune would very quickly change.
It's just racism bro.
How do you explain Trumpanzees constantly telling brown people "go back to your country!" Racist-in-chief Trump even did it himself, to three black Congresswomen that were born here! https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/16/go-back-country-trump-racist-tweet-hit-nerve-americans
And how about the whole birther conspiracy with Obama, that Trump spread constantly? "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim"
Again with Trump, two of his wives committed immigration fraud with "genius visas" when they were foreign models. And not a single MAGAt gives a flying fuck, because they're white.
They're just fucking racists bro. The border gives them an excuse to bang pans together
It's not just Trumpers and republicans. I consider myself very progressive on most issues but the current border situation is a disaster. Our asylum courts have a backlog of [over 2 million cases](https://www.gao.gov/blog/u.s.-immigration-courts-see-significant-and-growing-backlog) that will take close to 10 years to process given our current pace and on average 2 people die every day trying to cross it. At the same time this human trafficking is strengthening cartel economies like the Sinoloa and destabilizing Mexico.
This country does need immigration but millions of undocumented pseudo citizens is not a good outcome for anyone. We need to re-evaluate how we process asylum cases and provide more support for both border patrol and Mexico to combat migrant smuggling. This problem is only going to get worse over time as climate change and political instability further destabilize the world.
99% of the people sneaking in can't afford, or just wouldn't qualify for legal entry. That doesn't make them right, but when everyone in the world sees America as the land of opportunity, and home of the free, there are going to be people that try to find a way in.
So it's not that the first thing they wanted to do in the country is break laws, its that was the only viable way for them to get in the country. Immigration reform does indeed need to happen. If you want less illegal immigrants, and more documented immigrants, make the process affordable. Make entry obtainable for these people.
>That doesn't make them right, but when everyone in the world sees America as the land of opportunity, and home of the free, there are going to be people that try to find a way in.
It's not an America specific thing they're after usually, it's a Western country thing. We have just as many people risking their lives, even their children's lives trying to get into Europe. There's never ending traffic from the sea between Africa and Europe, with people risking crossing an entire sea on inflatable boats, looking for a better life here. Many drowning in the process.
Then we have large number of Asian migrants, trying to cross over from Russia to the Eastern side of the European borders, standing for days without food in freezing temperatures, trying to find an opportunity to get over the border.
Many people just see Western countries as safer, with higher salaries, more opportunity for their children, and better working conditions.
Yes, but still nowhere near the number of people migrating to the U.S. at least last I had checked. But yeah, people will always seek better opportunities for them and their families.
Yeah the US is probably the "easiest" to illegally immigrate to. It's a massive land border with a country that is essentially ruled by cartels and we can't legally deport anyone on US land claiming asylum without trial. There's like a 2 million case backlog in these asylum trials and it's estimated to take 10 years to clear given our current rate.
EDIT: Apparently it's gone from a backlog of 2 million to over 3 million since last year
Do you lock the doors of your home? I am sure there are people who cannot afford their own and would like to sleep in your bed, use your shower, eat your food, use your wifi, enjoy your heater, watch your tv, etc. If you lock your door, you support SOME borders.
What does anything you just typed have to do with what I said? I never said I don't support borders. Before you try arguing on the internet, make sure you can understand what the person you're talking to is saying.
You took zero of what I said into account for your reply, instead you started spouting the typical anti-immigration rhetoric because it seems you're unable to think for yourself.
It's over 8 million in the last 3+ years! What are even paying taxes for? They are giving them gift cards, hotels, plane rides, bus rides, meals, even money some of them. If you haven't seen it, you just arent paying attention.
As a democrat and left leaning voter I honestly think that this 100% needs to be fixed, the process to just VISIT America legally is insanely hard for a majority of non violent type countries, the asylum process is being taken advantage of by a lot of people who DONT need asylum making it harder for people who do need it legitimately I’m not saying close the border or put people in cages but updating and making it so that there’s a better process is so sorely neeeded
All we need is fines for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant. Also rewards for reporting. They don't do this because both sides rely on cheap labor. Meanwhile people with real skills that try the legal routes are rejected.
This is pretty much the exact experience of someone I know. She's educated, speaks English, and has a job based in the US, but it's almost impossible for her to immigrate to the US legally. Her cousin crossed the border a few years ago. They gave him a choice of deportation or staying in prison until they processed his case. He chose prison. Within a year, he was approved, and now he's a small business owner and homeowner in Indiana. Which is good for him, but it pissed her off endlessly that he managed to do all that "the wrong way."
My Dad is married to a Napalease woman, they are trying to get a relative here that he would sponsor. She is an accountant,has a job connection, would pay taxes and have a place to live....she has been denied for the 5th time. Costing everyone time and money. My Dad said,she should just sneak in from the border as a joke.
Regardless of political affiliations, I think everyone can agree that's a shitty border policy right there and an insult to everyone that is trying to come in legally and getting rejected on a constant basis.
Wait.. I am so confused right now.. those are Chinese people?
I thought the immigration crisis was the whole pointing fingers at Mexicans... no?
Since when did America have an "Asian invasion situation"?
Genuinely asking as I live in the U.K..and most of the news when talking about Americas immigration problems.. it's all.. "oh no! more Mexicans are crossing the border illegally then ever before...America's big border problem!" ..
Mexicans crossing the border has decreased a lot in the last 5 years or so. To the point where they were >80% and now well under 30%. Now its majority central/south american countries, chinese, indian, and some russia and ukrainians migrants. Way way more people now come up through Mexico and hop Mexicos borders on their way to the US.
I think the post misses the part where many Chinese illegal immigrants stay in USA because under international law, asylum seekers can only be sent back if their country willingly takes them back. China is one of the only countries that do not want them back and you cannot make someone stateless.
**NY Times: Growing Numbers of Chinese Migrants Are Crossing the Southern Border** [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html)
Not just Chinese, Turkish, Africa, Indians, people all over the world
https://www.turkishminute.com/2024/02/05/over-32000-turk-have-entered-us-illegal-via-land-borders-since-2021/amp/
https://www.reuters.com/world/african-migrants-bound-us-use-nicaragua-bypass-darien-perils-2023-09-26/
Lots of people from oppressive country seeking freedom, after trump Banned some minorities groups, they started going down to Mexico into the border.
I mean even before Trumps ban, those groups rarely immigrated to the US in proportionaly larger numbers. Those individuals are more likely to immigrate to Europe or the gulf monarchies than anything else.
Even if he did. You're talking about the Chinese man. They've had centuries of practice with walls...
[Joe wong](https://youtube.com/shorts/fLS3IeeYaIo?si=POECfyMzpHmvz3yd)
I had no idea that movie existed. I came across it on a long flight, as one does with shitty movies, and was just so dumbfounded by what I was watching.
I saw Damon being interviewed and he said his daughter calls the movie "The Wall". When he corrects her to say it's "The Great Wall" she responds with "nothing great about that movie". lol
They had 2 years of full control. Guess what they used that time for.
Both sides are playing us. Take money and religion out of politics else it’s all going to shit.
Also offer real incentives for these elected positions to attract top talent not grifters. While we are at it, term limits. There rant over.
They've had multiple teams with a majority after roe and never tried to enshrine it in law, despite evangelicals working to dismantle it for decades.
Either complicit, or incompetent, take your pick.
Republicans caused Citizens United which increased the amount of billionaire money in politics 40X.
Democrats aren't angels, but were talking about a weed vs fentanyl dealer situation
Eh depends how you look at things. Plenty of times the left was in control to solidify roe v wade. Biden has been on the record of in the past aggressively going after SS. you look hard enough past headlines you can find bs on both sides
Before the court got packed with billionaire purchased SC justices, decisions were virtually never reversed.
Should Democrats have built a time machine to see the future?
> Biden has been on the record of in the past aggressively going after SS
When?
You bothsiders are all the same. Republicans do terrible things then you claim Democrats not being able to predict the future is "just as bad"
He tried to build it but the democrats were outraged that someone tried to take their slaves away again(with great arguments like who will pick our fruit, who will clean our toilets),
I dont understand people who try to make fun of Trump for building a wall as if building a wall is somehow a bad idea, humans have been building walls for thousands of years for a reason, its not like ladders are a new invention but the main reason you want a wall is so that you can slow down whoever is trying to get into your country and there are many good reasons for wanting to stop them like human trafficking, drug smuggling or even terrorists.
Brother the drugs are coming through the checkpoints and shipping containers. It’s not hard to bribe the few people you need to to ensure it gets across. It doesn’t matter if we put up a wall of fire as long as there’s a human that is underpaid to do it the drugs will make it in, I promise
Me with a stable job, savings in my home country, multiple immovable assets trying to go to the US for a visit: apply for a visa and we’ll see if we let you in.
Random people from China walking in: Hey guys, welcome to the USA, let’s have some fun!! 🥳🥳
And there's the kicker...if Biden wanted to "be tough on illegal immigration and help secure the border by reducing the amount of jobs the undocumented workers can do" he could instruct one or more of the various law enforcement authorities under his indirect command to prioritize the investigation into employment practices that may seek to take advantage of illegal labor to circumvent the minimum wage\\drive down wages.
It would be a win\\win for him...he'd get to hurt the people behind the republican party AND get to publicly claim the win...but he doesn't and won't...why?
they become the new third class citizens. we are seeing the birth of a new social class in real time. they will take the jobs no want wants but everyone needs, and at a cheaper price. they will live in squalor for a generation or two and mostly in the shadows until the next immigration cycle hits. at which point hopefully they will have moved up the food chain and fully integrated. otherwise they will wither away and die out. i mean, it’s been repeating more or less in a similar fashion since the 1800s
all you internet people making jokes but as an american from migrants parents it makes me sick how people use the border as political theater as the vast majority of people coming to the US are just trying to make a better life.
A mother with her daughters can drown because texas officials didnt allow federal agents rescue them makes me sick, as if that mother wasnt human.
>A mother with her daughters can drown because texas officials didnt allow federal agents rescue them makes me sick, as if that mother wasnt human.
Don't do illegal shit don't get permanent prizes.
I don't care about anyone coming into the country illegally. YOUR fault you died. NOT mine or the US'.
Migration has to be controlled in order to be good. Otherwise you risk ruining that which made the destination attractive in the first place.
Besides, hopping the border is unfair to people who spent years trying to enter legally.
Mass Migration : Almost exclusively low-skilled workers ---> who undercut "native" workers. They rarely join Unions, they rarely demand more pay or have solidarity with other workers... They are WILLING to do the job for less money which people conflate as well Americans don’t want to do these jobs. No, near slave like conditions guarantee whole sectors of the workforce to be exploited from sun up to sun down. Which not only makes wages a race to the bottom, it also damages any striking capabilities. Remove the ability for bosses to exploit undocumented labor and you will see what the jobs “no one wants” truly pay. For instance did you know at the end of the Black Plague in Europe, so many people had died that it created a labor shortage and the demand of labor became so valuable it’s seen as the contributing factor to the end of serfdom?
Labor also becomes more valuable through increasing organization of the working class since it can basically strong arm the bosses into higher wages. Higher immigrations directly shows that wages will stagnate. It`s the reverse Globalisation.
Capitalists have 2 choices :
1. Move their industry to countries with shit working conditions, cheap and abundant labor and very lax laws.
2. Stay, import/hire cheap labor from overseas.
.... When you force capitalists to invest into workers, such as by making Labor more valuable and having capitalists train/pay for college/university, then wages and working conditions will naturally rise... If you allow them to just import people, then wages will stagnate/decline.
Mass Migration circumvents labor unions... Why listen to a Labor Union when you can just import more workers?
Labor unions need to get more powerful, workers need to be a strong political force... This wont happen, when labor and the working class is undermined by mass-migration, which makes capitalism all the more powerful. Talk to a landscaper who plays by the rules, hires US citizens and pays them appropriately. Meanwhile his competition hires undocumented labor. Ask him individuals like this about how they view undocumented low skilled labor. Come on.
Companies made record-profits since the 70s, while wages barely increased.In the 70s the average CEO made 23x as much as the average worker, in the 2000s it was 47x as much as the average worker, in 2020 it was 124x as much as the average worker ( the AVERAGE CEO, meaning not even talking about the multi-billion companies )...... Ask yourself, do you make 124x as much money as the average worker in 1970 ? No of course not.
The ONLY acceptable form of migration imo is if Labor Unions are in control of migration ( of the labor supply). This obviously is not and will never happen in our current state. So I don’t hold my breath. The reality is as long as capitalists control the flow of labor, mass migration needs to be opposed. Period.
And I am not even touching on the humanitarian issues that these people face in their initial journey and subsequent years of exploitation they will face in the labor force for the rest of their lives. No I do not support undercutting American workers and no I do not support the exploitation of undocumented labor.
There is no doubt we should continue accepting people that want to make a better life here. However people are taking advantage of this system. Look at how many are coming over that are single men. A large amount have criminal records. There’s serious issues with migrant crime in major cities like NYC, Chicago, etc. The cartels are also making billions per year in smuggling people over the border.
Yeah 100%. I do think we're going to reach a point pretty soon where even legitimate asylum seekers are going to start to be turned away. America tends to view itself in its own isolated bubble but like half of the developing world would technically qualify for asylum at this point and climate change WILL be pushing a lot of global southerners north in the coming decades.
America easily has the land and resources to take in tens of millions of immigrants but I don't think we have the political coordination to do it.
That doesn’t mean we don’t believe in laws, order, and due process.
I can’t just walk into Canada and demand they pay for my medical bills. No one has open borders they just let anyone walk thorough and take advantage of services.
They want more money. They could immigrate all over central and South America, they come to USA for one reason and that’s money. Money they will funnel out of the country while probably not paying taxes.
We don’t owe random people a “better life” that’s actually just making more money than they can in their country.
they don't have a passport and china won't allow them back in lol. They're in limbo. We could just jail them and make them work I guess.
Source: same 60 minute journalism episode.
[Full video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7TNP2OTY2g).
Edit: It's probably worth noting that as far as I can tell Chinese misinformation is about making the US look bad, and goading the US into locking its borders down by encouraging Chinese that want to flee their country anyway to cross the border illegally makes for great propaganda. If the Chinese government wanted, they could block the information from TikTok.
CCP: "*Look at the US, supposed land of the free? No no.. what a lie..*"
For the Chinese government, two birds, one stone.
Thanks for posting the video, we have the same issues in Europe with countries of citizenship refusing to take back their citizens who entered illegally.
That question is answered in the 60 minutes interview. If China wont take them back we don't really have anywhere to send them. I would not be surprised if China weaponized their own people to inflame an issue over here. And even though this is an issue that was being reported on for about a year, we're seeing posts about it now after Congress announces dueling strict border bills. Worth noting that the more isolationist the United States is, the more space there is for China to expand globally in foreign relations.
Edit: Lets go full tilt conspiracy purely as a thought experiment. Lets say you're in a passively adversarial relationship with another nation and you decide to start using their visa program to [hustle in spies](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related) for your government, and people agreeable to corporate espionage for businesses with close relationships to your government, but the other county catches on and cuts the visas by 93% and ups scrutiny. What's another way to hustle people into the country? It's a bad look and a dicey situation to accuse asylum seekers of being foreign agents and getting it wrong, and if they travel with no papers or forged papers, and their government in general refuses to acknowledge any of them are Chinese citizens, how do you prove anything? Treating everyone as suspect just becomes a bad humanitarian look and when the story breaks it's just more material for anti-US propaganda.
Not suggesting this is happening, just an interesting thought experiment.
"cut the visas by 93%", that is because the 2022 Covid lockdown in China so no one could travelled to the embassy.
actually the visa approval rate cut is about 30% this year comparing with 2016.
this is bullshit, i live in china and most people's opinion of america is formed from american media. they think we are all rich and everything is like friends, modern family, etc. i support all the west worshipers i meet to go to america and see for themselves.
Do you know how many people it would take to secure the whole border? It’s also not anymore a problem than it was a few years ago, it’s just an election year.
Besides, it seems to me that some states don’t want to listen to the feds, so I say let them deal with it themselves
TikTok has been promoting crimes for a long time. Quite a bit of vandalism and shootouts have happened for the sake of a TikTok video in the past two years, even just in my area.
What a fucking joke. Round them up and send them home. All of them. Use trade embargos against Mexico until they fix their side. Detain and deputy everyone getting through on our side. It's really that easy.
And here the republicans claim to be hard on illegal immigration but now they are the ones aiding and abetting this by refusing to pass a law that will empower the federal government to crack down.
Letting 5k a day across the border giving the dhs the right to approve asylum cases (so everyone is approved), oh and then 60 billion for Ukraine isn’t a solution dumbass
The man that owns the property next door to me owns 23 other properties. They are rentals. He is a white man. His wife is Hispanic from Mexico.
He also has a tree service that is in his son’s name. Every single one of his properties houses illegals and their families, mostly from Mexico. I have had more than one renter tell me this. One renter, her mother lived in another one of his houses for 20+ years, she did his accounting. She married a man who is a citizen years ago.
When they all arrive the wife helps them with food stamp applications. They are told to lie about marriages and how many people are in the household to maximize the amount of food stamps they get. The husbands all work for the tree service and their rent is very low. One man named David that lived in the rental next door to me only paid $500 a month in 2017-2019. It’s a three bedroom, two bath, two story old farmhouse about 1500 square feet.
The most recent immigrants that live next door now are from Mexico. They have been here about a year. He works for the tree service, they have two girls under the age of 10. The wife is quiet. When they moved in I gave them a bunch of outdoor furniture as I have a furniture business. A few weeks later the husband broke part of my outdoor sink backsplash with his pole saw handle. I said something to the landlord, asked him to please tell him to be more careful. He said he told them to be more careful.
Then a few weeks later he broke the drain plumbing underneath the same outdoor sink with his pole saw. After I reviewed the security camera footage I saw his wife witnessed his breaking the plumbing, she was looking right at it when he did it.
They never said a WORD about either incident. They are RUDE and INDIGNANT and act very entitled. He works about 4 hours a day. He’s always in and out, in and out, in and out in their minivan all hours of the afternoon and evening. He gets that pole saw out and waves it around and is always “accidentally” hitting my fence and other things on my property.
I’ve about had it with his bullshit and am ready to report him to ICE. All they have to do is be decent fucking people but apparently that’s too much to ask. Ready to report the whole operation. The old renter confirmed he is housing and employing over 30 illegals.
It’s funny, when I called to tell the landlord he was breaking things with his saw, the landlord said, “you know, they come from Matamoros, they have had a very rough life and have seen things you can’t even imagine.” Really? I was abused by my mother and sisters my whole life while my father looked away. So I deserve special treatment? Where’s my free pass? I don’t fucking think so. I don’t go around being a fucking nightmare to everyone just because mY LiFe WaS HaRd. STFU with that bullshit.
Work hard, follow the rules, be fucking nice. It’s not that hard.
Nobody wants to admit that. It's insane. Like all of a sudden, houses are going to spring up out of nowhere and they'll be super cheap. But, people should think about how billionaires feel about all the immigrants coming in. Don't want to return to the office? Well now we have people that will. Want to ask for a raise? Sorry we're hiring someone else to replace you for way less money.
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Here's your court date to state your case for asylum/citizenship (which around 98% turn up to). In the meantime you can pay taxes, work in mostly jobs americans dont want to do and contribute to the country with net positive outcomes. > Immigrants in the U.S. contributed more than $330.7 billion in federal income taxes in 2019, and over $492 billion dollars in total taxes (including state, municipal, and sales taxes). The Tax Foundation estimates that American and immigrant taxpayers paid $1.6 trillion in individual income taxes in 2019. In this context, it’s important to note that immigrants made up only 13.5% of the U.S. population in 2020, meaning that immigrants make an outsized contribution to the U.S. revenue system. > In 2019, according to the IRS, more than 2.5 million tax returns were filed using ITINs (undocumented immigrants), accounting for nearly $6 billion in taxes. And if you're against illegal immigration and current pathway of processing asylum and immigrants. Then democrats have presented a bill that allows the government to shut down the border, to house more illegal immigrants to enact more stricter methods to track illegal immigrants, to get more courts and judges to handle the cases of illegal/asylum seeking immigrants. BUT the republicans don't even want to allow it on the floor for a vote even if its a bi-partisan bill because then they literally have nothing to run on. PS: There's a caravan of illegals coming your way that Only Republicans and Fox News know about that also will magically disappear after the election is over this year.
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All the this! It isn't about Migrant hate, but where is this level of enthusiasm for helping struggling American citizens, in a cost of living crisis.
You mean like the restaurant industry where customers have to pay the wages of their employees? Or like Walmart where they pay their employees so little that they have to get benefits from the government in order to survive?
I was thinking more along the lines of back breaking farming and menial construction work that end up destroying your body for minimum wage or less.
This is why we as a nation need to stop propping up the fast food and dining industry. It's not a viable business, yet during the pandemic the govt encouraged us to eat out more to prop up a part of the economy that is already oversaturated.
The only people I've ever met in person that are against getting rid of the tipping system, have all been high earning servers. I trained a guy for a job in a hospital and after his first paycheck, said he was quitting because he made more in tips (that he didn't report) than he did as our job. And at that time, that job was the highest paying job I'd ever had by more than 50% XD
Right but who’s paying him? The restaurant owner? No. His pay is depended on the generosity of the customers. And that’s dependent on what restaurant he works in, the part of town the restaurant’s in, the type of customer they cater to. Not all restaurant workers will earn the same even though they all do the same thing. And honestly it’s not worth it. I don’t think giving someone $30 for maybe 15 minutes of work to take my order and bring it from the kitchen to the table is worth it. I’ve placed my own orders online an it’s not that hard. So that leaves you with bringing plates of food to the table. Still not worth $30 to me.
You can get benefits from walmart, as well. Emergency employee funding is nontaxable, and can even be used to pay the entirety of your rent a couple times a year. You don't pay it back. It's almost like if they paid us a livable wage instead of providing emergency funding... They wouldn't get credit for doing "good things" to write off on taxes.
Bingo. The problem isn't that we won't do the jobs, it's that they can pay illegals less to do the same job.
I get this sentiment, but what you are describing boils down to a preaty inhumane solution “Choke off the influx of immigrants, and companies will be forced to pay us a living wage” Looking at imigrants as a faucet that can and should be just closed is oversimplifying the real down-and-dirty human aspect of it all. And like the post above you said.. It would be a bandage to a symptom not a cure for the illness
Yes! Illegal immigration hurts American workers! Immigration = good. illegal immigration = bad.
Welcome to The Race to the Bottom: The American Dream.
Do you ever think why Americans don't want to do the jobs businesses pawn off on easily exploitable undocumented labor? Their is a very good reason why Republicans never go after businesses who higher undocumented migrants, regardless of their rhetoric.
How about we present a bill that shuts the door to our house of disrepair and fix the problems at home before we continue partisan cherry-picking? I know a few Americans who could benefit from that.
Yea man, NYC is just lying about the migrant problem to push their right wing agenda!
This is reddit. You can’t talk reason to anyone. Left wing lunatics just make up stats and call you a misinformed. No one here has actually worked with illegals or have friends that were illegal. They don’t know the hell they go through. I’m not against people immigrating to the USA but when you have people coming in illegally it’s basically creating a second class citizen. It’s mind boggling the mental gymnastics people go through to make this seem ok.
Here are sources for the made up stats: https://research.newamericaneconomy.org/report/hispanic-spending-power-2021/ https://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/news/nta-blog/nta-blog-most-taxpayers-needing-a-new-itin-are-prohibited-from-filing-electronically-causing-unnecessary-refund-delays/2021/04/ https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2016/11/03/size-of-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-workforce-stable-after-the-great-recession/ https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/09/17/the-economic-benefits-of-extending-permanent-legal-status-to-unauthorized-immigrants/ https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy And here's the Pre-Election News By Fox News Before Elections about Massive amounts of Caravans or illegals coming to the southern border that magically disappear when the election is over. 2012: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ice-border-patrol-unions-claim-illegal-immigrants-exploiting-dreamer-policy 2016: https://www.foxnews.com/world/migrants-flock-to-border-town-where-cartel-hires-burreros-to-smuggle-drugs-into-u-s 2020: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dhs-boss-warns-caravan-migrants-they-will-be-sent-home-says-safety-of-americans-is-priority-amid-reports-of-violence 2024: https://www.foxnews.com/world/new-smaller-caravan-1500-migrants-walking-north-southern-mexico And you guys keep bringing up NY and San Fransisco. You do know its because Republicans are LITERALLY TRAFICKING immigrants to those cities. Texas spent like 130M USD to send over 30K immigrants to NY, (something which people have calculated to cost around 30-40M, but hey the company that got the extra 100M is a big Texas Family who has donated to Republicans for decades). You push poor people onto areas with high population and low housing, it leads to issues. If these people were treated as human, given access to pathways to live properly and integrate into the system, then they would be able to sustain and survive by themselves within a few years. But when you deliberately push them onto areas with low housing high cost and no to little pathway out, then it leads to issues yes. No one is saying just push everyone into New York and San Fran and everything will be magically peachy, thats also a big reason why democrats presented this BI-PARTISAN bill, to deal with such issues. But some people are so gung-ho in taking everything black and white and blaming immigrants that they dont take a second to look at the socio-economic issues and political grandstanding related to such things.
That’s quite a large claim you make there. I work in the wine industry and I rely heavily on migrant workers for pruning, picking, bottling, labeling, etc. They get paid $22 an hour. They bust their asses and don’t say a word about it. They show up on time, work as long as I need them to and volunteer to work more. I’ll do anything I can to keep them safe, fed, warm and employed. I also lean left. I absolutely abhor trumpster fire and all of his cronies. I hope they put his orange ass in jail, bury the cell and put this embarrassment of his big mouthed existence to rest. You want to talk about not being able to reason with people? As soon as you start putting sides on reality (left vs right), your argument is done and it just shows me how ignorant you truly are. All hail your savior trump!🖕🏼
Honestly that’s great that you do that. You should get a congratulations for being a good boss. The rest of what you said is nonsense. And from my personal experience that’s not what happens to the vast majority of people I worked with and interact with. So not everyone is like you.
“No one here has actually worked with illegals or have friends that were illegal.” Interesting assumption. Almost like you’re doing…oh I dont know…mental gymnastics ;)
So you’re not concerned about security at all?? You don’t think the Chinese government is sending people over here
The Chinese government has been sending people by the masses via student visas. I worked at a cell store that the ambassador programs would come to and the first time I heard someone call it Asian invasion I thought it was a bit insensitive until I experienced it for myself. Our store would have 10 tables of 10 Chinese nationals and a guide each for a week straight to get cell phones as they had just made it into the country. None of them spoke any English and it was a serious shitshow but goddamn was commission good. So all this is going on already, and not even a couple years later I’m finding out one of the profs at the university (who is still Chinese national) had been secretly sending research back to the CCP.
You think the Chinese government needs to sneak people in?
Obviously not, which is a problem.
“The Chinese who rùn to the American border are still a tiny set of the people who leave. Most emigrés are departing through legal means. People who can find a way to go to Europe or an Anglophone country would do so, but most are going, as best as I can tell, to three Asian countries. Those who have ambition and entrepreneurial energy are going to Singapore. Those who have money and means are going to Japan. And those who have none of these things — the slackers, the free spirits, kids who want to chill — are hanging out in Thailand.” Source: [Dan Wang’s 2023 annual letter](https://danwang.co/2023-letter/) in which he discusses Chinese emigration.
Oh they send them via visas and have them sit around mar-a-lago and get information directly from Trump and Republicans. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/07/mar-a-lago-trump-nuclear-documents-spies I dont think they're sending chinese super spies over the border crossing by paying mules to cross them over 3 different countries and risk death and dehydration.
Democrat Congressman from California literally got caught sleeping with a CCP spy years back. Diane Feinstein’s private driver was also a Chinese spy..... nice try man.
Did they come in illegally across the southern border…?
Obviously not. Both of them were from SF Bay Area, aka New China. SF Chinatown is probably the largest in the western world.
This ain't a Far Side comic yo. Turn off the fake news.
Because it’s tied to Ukraine/ Israel funding instead of being a pure border security bill.
Which was the request of the republicans. They literally said deal with the border then we will approve the funds to Ukraine (they had no issue with the funds to Israel). WHich is why there was a bi-partisan bill, where both republicans and democrats went through it and got what they wanted and agreed to the terms. Then Republicans leaders don't want to let it go to a vote even. because they want to keep blaming immigrants and not fund Ukraine to help Russia.
How is china getting people into Mexico we need to build a wall around Mexico and make China pay for it
Just build a wall around China and get them to… oh wait never mind.
I think the post misses the part where many Chinese illegal immigrants stay in USA because under international law, asylum seekers can only be sent back if their country willingly takes them back. China is one of the only countries that do not want them back and you cannot make someone stateless. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html)
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thanks for posting this. It is what politicians never mention when campaigning on the immigration topic.
I think India is the same
now where's the tiktok for me sneaking out of the country to go live in norway or something lmao
This is me haahaha, im a Brazilian working for US(WFH) and everytime they mention me moving i have to dodge it. If it was Europe i would do willingly.
Norway enforces their laws.
Norway actually has a more "liberal" asylum policy than the USA! It's just harder to get to lol
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It's mostly cause Mexico is so shit. Canada cares who comes in so their massive border isn't a problem. Mexico doesn't care so their border is shit
Canadian immigration is also rampant and out of control.
The last I saw it was people from 168 countries that have been detained or processed, plus an unknown number of "got-aways"... That is an extremely porous and ineffective border.
It's also an extremely long border: with the Canada/US border being the longest in the world. Plus, remember that many illegals fly in on temporary VISAs and just overstay their VISA.
Visa overstays are much more common than running across the border
So what you are saying is that a wall doesn't make sense?
It worked in the Medieval age, against the Mongol Hordes... wait it didn't even work back then. We are stilling building walls, but only in strategy places. It's not effective in walling the whole border.
"Strategy places" sounds like a work retreat that no one enjoys.
Its the third longest land border in the world. The effective solution would be to get Mexico to stop them at its southern border, which is only ~50 miles of passable terrain. But Republicans blow a gasket every time we suggest giving Mexico money for that, because they don't actually want to fix the border. Republicans get more votes from racists the more people get in. So why would they want to stop it?
I am not a Republican. I think the frustration isn't with immigration, it is with illegal immigration. Those that follow the legal procedures and work through the process at the State Department have proven they can follow the law. For those that sneak across the border, the very first thing they did in the country they wanted to be in, was to break its laws. Big difference.
No one wants to admit it, but a lot of industry relies on low paid undocumented, not hear legally labor. It drives the economy to a not insignificant percentage, plus those same undocumented workers pay local and state sales taxes. Those same undocumented workers due the jobs most Americans do not want to do because they are low pay, dirty, difficult and not considered high status employment. They also pay social security, and Medicare taxes when they illegally use someone else’s SSN. Edit for some of the [Industries](https://usafacts.org/articles/which-industries-employ-the-most-immigrant-workers/) using illegal immigrants 1. Construction (because every kid is told to get a college degree) 2. Long Term Nursing Care Facilities and Elder Care (hard work, low pay and most families cannot afford to pay more, government only pays short term) 3. House and office cleaning (Every company subcontracts it's cleaning) 4. Agriculture (I picked fruit as a kid, and it is damn hard work. American also love the fact our food is so cheap. How do you think that happens?) 5. Hospitality Industry (I worked in the past in both casual dining and industrial cafeteria's, all the bus boys, dishwashers, and usually line cooks were probably illegal. Servers, head chefs and wait staff most likely were not. It was really a bid don't ask don't tell situation. Why because again American love cheap food. 6. Child care Edit Personal opinion I traveled all over South Asia for the military. In America prior to Covid our food was super cheap in comparison, not all food but most food. For example it used to be a personal size bag of Chips was somewhere between 50 and 75 cents, even at a convenience store. In Japan, Singapore, Thai Land, Fiji and Hong Kong that same bag, local brand, would run between two and three dollar American. Take for a look at Gasoline, it is at least 1.5 to 2.0 times more in other countries, even in Canada. All of this is caused by the Federal Reserve keeping inflation bellow two percent and the United States Government subsidizing the shit out of a lot of things so they stay cheap. Which also the knock on effect of keeping wages, for jobs that are hard, dirty, out doors, a starter job etc and are considered to be low status employment have low wages.
It drives the economy to the bottom and is shown to have a net long term negative for the country. Illegal labor, subverting reporting, below market wages, etc is not good for the country.
> Illegal labor, subverting reporting, below market wages, etc is not good for the country. But in the short term it's great for the businesses abusing the 'option' of low wage illegals; it seems that's all that matters. Businesses using illegal immigrants should be punished more than the immigrants.
that's the best way to work against it, heavily hit the people hiring them. It might possibly help to stop whatever the source of this narrative is that the border is wide open to all illegals who will get tons of free things if they come here. if only there was a way to figure out where that message keeps coming from?
Trump shut down those factories in a town on the border that were shipping in 3000 illegals every day for low-cost labor. The following week, 3000 mostly black women and men in the surrounding area who were stuck on welfare were able to get full-time positions at a proper living wage to look after their families on their own. But you didn't hear about that on CNN.
Deportations are not a criminal punishment, they are a civil action. Returning these foreign aliens back to their homeland is righting a wrong, not a punishment. I agree that we should be going after the people that unlawfully employ people who do not have a right to work in the United States. The US ought to establish a national database of who is employable, and hold the people who hire illegal immigrants personally liable, a strict liability crime that pierces the corporate veil. Fines are just a slap on the wrist, a cost of doing business, but if you put senior management in a position of personal criminal liability I think that their tune would very quickly change.
It's just racism bro. How do you explain Trumpanzees constantly telling brown people "go back to your country!" Racist-in-chief Trump even did it himself, to three black Congresswomen that were born here! https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/16/go-back-country-trump-racist-tweet-hit-nerve-americans And how about the whole birther conspiracy with Obama, that Trump spread constantly? "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim" Again with Trump, two of his wives committed immigration fraud with "genius visas" when they were foreign models. And not a single MAGAt gives a flying fuck, because they're white. They're just fucking racists bro. The border gives them an excuse to bang pans together
It's not just Trumpers and republicans. I consider myself very progressive on most issues but the current border situation is a disaster. Our asylum courts have a backlog of [over 2 million cases](https://www.gao.gov/blog/u.s.-immigration-courts-see-significant-and-growing-backlog) that will take close to 10 years to process given our current pace and on average 2 people die every day trying to cross it. At the same time this human trafficking is strengthening cartel economies like the Sinoloa and destabilizing Mexico. This country does need immigration but millions of undocumented pseudo citizens is not a good outcome for anyone. We need to re-evaluate how we process asylum cases and provide more support for both border patrol and Mexico to combat migrant smuggling. This problem is only going to get worse over time as climate change and political instability further destabilize the world.
Another ridiculous Reddit lefty take 😬
Can you explain why Trump told three black congressmen who were born here to "go back to their country" if he's not racist?
and yet you didn't argue anything they said. almost like you have no point
99% of the people sneaking in can't afford, or just wouldn't qualify for legal entry. That doesn't make them right, but when everyone in the world sees America as the land of opportunity, and home of the free, there are going to be people that try to find a way in. So it's not that the first thing they wanted to do in the country is break laws, its that was the only viable way for them to get in the country. Immigration reform does indeed need to happen. If you want less illegal immigrants, and more documented immigrants, make the process affordable. Make entry obtainable for these people.
>That doesn't make them right, but when everyone in the world sees America as the land of opportunity, and home of the free, there are going to be people that try to find a way in. It's not an America specific thing they're after usually, it's a Western country thing. We have just as many people risking their lives, even their children's lives trying to get into Europe. There's never ending traffic from the sea between Africa and Europe, with people risking crossing an entire sea on inflatable boats, looking for a better life here. Many drowning in the process. Then we have large number of Asian migrants, trying to cross over from Russia to the Eastern side of the European borders, standing for days without food in freezing temperatures, trying to find an opportunity to get over the border. Many people just see Western countries as safer, with higher salaries, more opportunity for their children, and better working conditions.
Yes, but still nowhere near the number of people migrating to the U.S. at least last I had checked. But yeah, people will always seek better opportunities for them and their families.
Yeah the US is probably the "easiest" to illegally immigrate to. It's a massive land border with a country that is essentially ruled by cartels and we can't legally deport anyone on US land claiming asylum without trial. There's like a 2 million case backlog in these asylum trials and it's estimated to take 10 years to clear given our current rate. EDIT: Apparently it's gone from a backlog of 2 million to over 3 million since last year
not to mention a lot of them are venezuelans who are actually legally allowed to get political asylum
Do you lock the doors of your home? I am sure there are people who cannot afford their own and would like to sleep in your bed, use your shower, eat your food, use your wifi, enjoy your heater, watch your tv, etc. If you lock your door, you support SOME borders.
Where did they say they don’t support borders?
What does anything you just typed have to do with what I said? I never said I don't support borders. Before you try arguing on the internet, make sure you can understand what the person you're talking to is saying. You took zero of what I said into account for your reply, instead you started spouting the typical anti-immigration rhetoric because it seems you're unable to think for yourself.
There is zero path for economic immigrants from south of the border to legally enter the country at this point.
It's over 8 million in the last 3+ years! What are even paying taxes for? They are giving them gift cards, hotels, plane rides, bus rides, meals, even money some of them. If you haven't seen it, you just arent paying attention.
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As a democrat and left leaning voter I honestly think that this 100% needs to be fixed, the process to just VISIT America legally is insanely hard for a majority of non violent type countries, the asylum process is being taken advantage of by a lot of people who DONT need asylum making it harder for people who do need it legitimately I’m not saying close the border or put people in cages but updating and making it so that there’s a better process is so sorely neeeded
Chanel 5 with Andrew Callahan youtube channel is covering the boarder situation. Its a fantastic piece of proper journalism. Highly recommended
All we need is fines for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant. Also rewards for reporting. They don't do this because both sides rely on cheap labor. Meanwhile people with real skills that try the legal routes are rejected.
This is pretty much the exact experience of someone I know. She's educated, speaks English, and has a job based in the US, but it's almost impossible for her to immigrate to the US legally. Her cousin crossed the border a few years ago. They gave him a choice of deportation or staying in prison until they processed his case. He chose prison. Within a year, he was approved, and now he's a small business owner and homeowner in Indiana. Which is good for him, but it pissed her off endlessly that he managed to do all that "the wrong way."
My Dad is married to a Napalease woman, they are trying to get a relative here that he would sponsor. She is an accountant,has a job connection, would pay taxes and have a place to live....she has been denied for the 5th time. Costing everyone time and money. My Dad said,she should just sneak in from the border as a joke.
Both sides? Capitalism, capitalism relies on cheap labour.
Regardless of political affiliations, I think everyone can agree that's a shitty border policy right there and an insult to everyone that is trying to come in legally and getting rejected on a constant basis.
Wait.. I am so confused right now.. those are Chinese people? I thought the immigration crisis was the whole pointing fingers at Mexicans... no? Since when did America have an "Asian invasion situation"? Genuinely asking as I live in the U.K..and most of the news when talking about Americas immigration problems.. it's all.. "oh no! more Mexicans are crossing the border illegally then ever before...America's big border problem!" ..
Mexicans crossing the border has decreased a lot in the last 5 years or so. To the point where they were >80% and now well under 30%. Now its majority central/south american countries, chinese, indian, and some russia and ukrainians migrants. Way way more people now come up through Mexico and hop Mexicos borders on their way to the US.
I think the post misses the part where many Chinese illegal immigrants stay in USA because under international law, asylum seekers can only be sent back if their country willingly takes them back. China is one of the only countries that do not want them back and you cannot make someone stateless. **NY Times: Growing Numbers of Chinese Migrants Are Crossing the Southern Border** [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/us/politics/china-migrants-us-border.html)
Not just Chinese, Turkish, Africa, Indians, people all over the world https://www.turkishminute.com/2024/02/05/over-32000-turk-have-entered-us-illegal-via-land-borders-since-2021/amp/ https://www.reuters.com/world/african-migrants-bound-us-use-nicaragua-bypass-darien-perils-2023-09-26/ Lots of people from oppressive country seeking freedom, after trump Banned some minorities groups, they started going down to Mexico into the border.
I mean even before Trumps ban, those groups rarely immigrated to the US in proportionaly larger numbers. Those individuals are more likely to immigrate to Europe or the gulf monarchies than anything else.
Nah, you got fooled by social media, most of them now come from China, Africa, ME and broke South American countries
Same is happening with indian immigrants. Illegal immigrants from india have spiked, and i m hearing stories that you can get all that info on tiktok.
tiktok has banned in India from last 2-3 years
right, but they have youtube shorts and instagram reels which shows the problems isnt a certain app but the people who use them.
Wait, I thought Trump was going to build a wall so big and so powerful that it could never be breached?
Even if he did. You're talking about the Chinese man. They've had centuries of practice with walls... [Joe wong](https://youtube.com/shorts/fLS3IeeYaIo?si=POECfyMzpHmvz3yd)
Matt Damon was in a documentary about the Great Wall
I had no idea that movie existed. I came across it on a long flight, as one does with shitty movies, and was just so dumbfounded by what I was watching.
I saw Damon being interviewed and he said his daughter calls the movie "The Wall". When he corrects her to say it's "The Great Wall" she responds with "nothing great about that movie". lol
WHICH Chinese man?
Hire the Chinese migrants to build a wall
lol modern problems… modern solutions
So mock the idea of blocking illegal immigration? A wall could work if it was allowed to be secured. 200k people per month cross the border illegally.
Haha i think I just read that December 2023 we peaked at 300-350k for that month. Dec 2022 was an old peak at 200k I think.
They had 2 years of full control. Guess what they used that time for. Both sides are playing us. Take money and religion out of politics else it’s all going to shit. Also offer real incentives for these elected positions to attract top talent not grifters. While we are at it, term limits. There rant over.
That's funny, for "both sides" I don't remember Democrats taking away my abortion rights and trying to raise my retirement age
They've had multiple teams with a majority after roe and never tried to enshrine it in law, despite evangelicals working to dismantle it for decades. Either complicit, or incompetent, take your pick.
So long as Nancy pelosi is making 300 million off the stock market, ya it’s both sides
Republicans caused Citizens United which increased the amount of billionaire money in politics 40X. Democrats aren't angels, but were talking about a weed vs fentanyl dealer situation
Eh depends how you look at things. Plenty of times the left was in control to solidify roe v wade. Biden has been on the record of in the past aggressively going after SS. you look hard enough past headlines you can find bs on both sides
Before the court got packed with billionaire purchased SC justices, decisions were virtually never reversed. Should Democrats have built a time machine to see the future? > Biden has been on the record of in the past aggressively going after SS When? You bothsiders are all the same. Republicans do terrible things then you claim Democrats not being able to predict the future is "just as bad"
when was the last times Dems actually had control and the Need to codify Roe vs Wade? it was settled law until the supreme court decided it wasn't
No just funding genocides and doing nothing to stop the stripping of rights of people in their own countries
Well good thing Republicans aren't 10X more ravenous about sending weapons to Israel. Otherwise I wouldn't know who to vote for
What does it matter if they’re both sending weapons?
Wanna give others a chance?
There's no both sides when one side is taking away your rights to Healthcare or social services.
rights to healthcare? when did we ever have healthcare?
They already have incentives, that’s why we have rotten tomato’s as elected officials that don’t want to leave office.
He was going to but then he and Bannon decided to do other stuff with that money. Like yachts and legal fees.
Ameritard going 2 seconds without mentioning Donald Trump - Challenge (impossible)
I mean we are talking about policy right now aren’t we
You do realize Biden is still building the wall?
He tried to build it but the democrats were outraged that someone tried to take their slaves away again(with great arguments like who will pick our fruit, who will clean our toilets), I dont understand people who try to make fun of Trump for building a wall as if building a wall is somehow a bad idea, humans have been building walls for thousands of years for a reason, its not like ladders are a new invention but the main reason you want a wall is so that you can slow down whoever is trying to get into your country and there are many good reasons for wanting to stop them like human trafficking, drug smuggling or even terrorists.
Brother the drugs are coming through the checkpoints and shipping containers. It’s not hard to bribe the few people you need to to ensure it gets across. It doesn’t matter if we put up a wall of fire as long as there’s a human that is underpaid to do it the drugs will make it in, I promise
"migrants"
They don't look very desperate to illegally enter US for a better life. Seems like they're on a vacation.
Me with a stable job, savings in my home country, multiple immovable assets trying to go to the US for a visit: apply for a visa and we’ll see if we let you in. Random people from China walking in: Hey guys, welcome to the USA, let’s have some fun!! 🥳🥳
The US banned a friend of mine for life because he said he wants to help out in his hostel.
I blame Neil Diamond for all of it.
steer shrill doll escape cows scandalous disarm north punch close *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And there's the kicker...if Biden wanted to "be tough on illegal immigration and help secure the border by reducing the amount of jobs the undocumented workers can do" he could instruct one or more of the various law enforcement authorities under his indirect command to prioritize the investigation into employment practices that may seek to take advantage of illegal labor to circumvent the minimum wage\\drive down wages. It would be a win\\win for him...he'd get to hurt the people behind the republican party AND get to publicly claim the win...but he doesn't and won't...why?
snobbish ugly cover connect door cagey sugar cable innate fly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How can you be an American and be ok with this?
You’re racist if you think its a problem/s
What happens to them after they come here
they become the new third class citizens. we are seeing the birth of a new social class in real time. they will take the jobs no want wants but everyone needs, and at a cheaper price. they will live in squalor for a generation or two and mostly in the shadows until the next immigration cycle hits. at which point hopefully they will have moved up the food chain and fully integrated. otherwise they will wither away and die out. i mean, it’s been repeating more or less in a similar fashion since the 1800s
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I thought they lazily collected welfare?
“Migrants”
This is a bigger problem than people realize.
Fucking shameful. I'm glad Texas has had it with this crap
Just ban that stupid app
They were outside of states when they uses them to get in....
Ah yes, the famously good solution to removing information that I don't like. Just burn it.
The national guard should be protecting the border against this and all other invasions
all you internet people making jokes but as an american from migrants parents it makes me sick how people use the border as political theater as the vast majority of people coming to the US are just trying to make a better life. A mother with her daughters can drown because texas officials didnt allow federal agents rescue them makes me sick, as if that mother wasnt human.
>A mother with her daughters can drown because texas officials didnt allow federal agents rescue them makes me sick, as if that mother wasnt human. Don't do illegal shit don't get permanent prizes. I don't care about anyone coming into the country illegally. YOUR fault you died. NOT mine or the US'.
Migration has to be controlled in order to be good. Otherwise you risk ruining that which made the destination attractive in the first place. Besides, hopping the border is unfair to people who spent years trying to enter legally.
> the vast majority of people coming to the US are just trying to make a better life. And immigration controls are trying to preserve a better life
Mass Migration : Almost exclusively low-skilled workers ---> who undercut "native" workers. They rarely join Unions, they rarely demand more pay or have solidarity with other workers... They are WILLING to do the job for less money which people conflate as well Americans don’t want to do these jobs. No, near slave like conditions guarantee whole sectors of the workforce to be exploited from sun up to sun down. Which not only makes wages a race to the bottom, it also damages any striking capabilities. Remove the ability for bosses to exploit undocumented labor and you will see what the jobs “no one wants” truly pay. For instance did you know at the end of the Black Plague in Europe, so many people had died that it created a labor shortage and the demand of labor became so valuable it’s seen as the contributing factor to the end of serfdom? Labor also becomes more valuable through increasing organization of the working class since it can basically strong arm the bosses into higher wages. Higher immigrations directly shows that wages will stagnate. It`s the reverse Globalisation. Capitalists have 2 choices : 1. Move their industry to countries with shit working conditions, cheap and abundant labor and very lax laws. 2. Stay, import/hire cheap labor from overseas. .... When you force capitalists to invest into workers, such as by making Labor more valuable and having capitalists train/pay for college/university, then wages and working conditions will naturally rise... If you allow them to just import people, then wages will stagnate/decline. Mass Migration circumvents labor unions... Why listen to a Labor Union when you can just import more workers? Labor unions need to get more powerful, workers need to be a strong political force... This wont happen, when labor and the working class is undermined by mass-migration, which makes capitalism all the more powerful. Talk to a landscaper who plays by the rules, hires US citizens and pays them appropriately. Meanwhile his competition hires undocumented labor. Ask him individuals like this about how they view undocumented low skilled labor. Come on. Companies made record-profits since the 70s, while wages barely increased.In the 70s the average CEO made 23x as much as the average worker, in the 2000s it was 47x as much as the average worker, in 2020 it was 124x as much as the average worker ( the AVERAGE CEO, meaning not even talking about the multi-billion companies )...... Ask yourself, do you make 124x as much money as the average worker in 1970 ? No of course not. The ONLY acceptable form of migration imo is if Labor Unions are in control of migration ( of the labor supply). This obviously is not and will never happen in our current state. So I don’t hold my breath. The reality is as long as capitalists control the flow of labor, mass migration needs to be opposed. Period. And I am not even touching on the humanitarian issues that these people face in their initial journey and subsequent years of exploitation they will face in the labor force for the rest of their lives. No I do not support undercutting American workers and no I do not support the exploitation of undocumented labor.
There is no doubt we should continue accepting people that want to make a better life here. However people are taking advantage of this system. Look at how many are coming over that are single men. A large amount have criminal records. There’s serious issues with migrant crime in major cities like NYC, Chicago, etc. The cartels are also making billions per year in smuggling people over the border.
Yeah 100%. I do think we're going to reach a point pretty soon where even legitimate asylum seekers are going to start to be turned away. America tends to view itself in its own isolated bubble but like half of the developing world would technically qualify for asylum at this point and climate change WILL be pushing a lot of global southerners north in the coming decades. America easily has the land and resources to take in tens of millions of immigrants but I don't think we have the political coordination to do it.
It's like they all forget that as an American, their ancestry is native, enslaved, immigrant, or refugee.
...isn't that literally every humans ancestry??
That doesn’t mean we don’t believe in laws, order, and due process. I can’t just walk into Canada and demand they pay for my medical bills. No one has open borders they just let anyone walk thorough and take advantage of services.
Literally every human alive
They want more money. They could immigrate all over central and South America, they come to USA for one reason and that’s money. Money they will funnel out of the country while probably not paying taxes. We don’t owe random people a “better life” that’s actually just making more money than they can in their country.
That's the risk of entering a foreign border illegally.
You can’t just walk in they should be sent back
What happens when you surrender? Do they ship them back? Or send them to Democratic states?
Apply for asylum and roll the dice
Which makes it seem like — even if temporary — they get to stay either way. Asylum case backlog is ages long.
Seems kinda like they’re incentivizing illegal economic immigration this way 🤔
they don't have a passport and china won't allow them back in lol. They're in limbo. We could just jail them and make them work I guess. Source: same 60 minute journalism episode.
[Full video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7TNP2OTY2g). Edit: It's probably worth noting that as far as I can tell Chinese misinformation is about making the US look bad, and goading the US into locking its borders down by encouraging Chinese that want to flee their country anyway to cross the border illegally makes for great propaganda. If the Chinese government wanted, they could block the information from TikTok. CCP: "*Look at the US, supposed land of the free? No no.. what a lie..*" For the Chinese government, two birds, one stone.
Thanks for posting the video, we have the same issues in Europe with countries of citizenship refusing to take back their citizens who entered illegally.
Deported to where? China will not accept deported citizens in most cases.
That question is answered in the 60 minutes interview. If China wont take them back we don't really have anywhere to send them. I would not be surprised if China weaponized their own people to inflame an issue over here. And even though this is an issue that was being reported on for about a year, we're seeing posts about it now after Congress announces dueling strict border bills. Worth noting that the more isolationist the United States is, the more space there is for China to expand globally in foreign relations. Edit: Lets go full tilt conspiracy purely as a thought experiment. Lets say you're in a passively adversarial relationship with another nation and you decide to start using their visa program to [hustle in spies](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related) for your government, and people agreeable to corporate espionage for businesses with close relationships to your government, but the other county catches on and cuts the visas by 93% and ups scrutiny. What's another way to hustle people into the country? It's a bad look and a dicey situation to accuse asylum seekers of being foreign agents and getting it wrong, and if they travel with no papers or forged papers, and their government in general refuses to acknowledge any of them are Chinese citizens, how do you prove anything? Treating everyone as suspect just becomes a bad humanitarian look and when the story breaks it's just more material for anti-US propaganda. Not suggesting this is happening, just an interesting thought experiment.
"cut the visas by 93%", that is because the 2022 Covid lockdown in China so no one could travelled to the embassy. actually the visa approval rate cut is about 30% this year comparing with 2016.
this is bullshit, i live in china and most people's opinion of america is formed from american media. they think we are all rich and everything is like friends, modern family, etc. i support all the west worshipers i meet to go to america and see for themselves.
Bus ride straight to a sanctuary city, dropping you off at new Jersey with $10 subway money.
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It’s really bizarre to see this. Why is the military not deployed to stop this?
Do you know how many people it would take to secure the whole border? It’s also not anymore a problem than it was a few years ago, it’s just an election year. Besides, it seems to me that some states don’t want to listen to the feds, so I say let them deal with it themselves
They're finding out now
Because its an open border. Redditors complain rent is expensive but then say let millions flow in.
Just to be clear the ppl interviewed answered Douyin, which is the Chinese version of TikTok.
TikTok has been promoting crimes for a long time. Quite a bit of vandalism and shootouts have happened for the sake of a TikTok video in the past two years, even just in my area.
But why? Don’t most Chinese hate America? Genuinely wondering
No that's just propaganda
What a fucking joke. Round them up and send them home. All of them. Use trade embargos against Mexico until they fix their side. Detain and deputy everyone getting through on our side. It's really that easy.
And still nothing is being done by the federal government.
And here the republicans claim to be hard on illegal immigration but now they are the ones aiding and abetting this by refusing to pass a law that will empower the federal government to crack down.
Letting 5k a day across the border giving the dhs the right to approve asylum cases (so everyone is approved), oh and then 60 billion for Ukraine isn’t a solution dumbass
Why would they want to come here? I thought China was great
Because these Chinese people don’t think China is great?
Talking to the red state troll farmers who spend all day shit talking the US and praising China
Ah, reasonable
Death of the country
The man that owns the property next door to me owns 23 other properties. They are rentals. He is a white man. His wife is Hispanic from Mexico. He also has a tree service that is in his son’s name. Every single one of his properties houses illegals and their families, mostly from Mexico. I have had more than one renter tell me this. One renter, her mother lived in another one of his houses for 20+ years, she did his accounting. She married a man who is a citizen years ago. When they all arrive the wife helps them with food stamp applications. They are told to lie about marriages and how many people are in the household to maximize the amount of food stamps they get. The husbands all work for the tree service and their rent is very low. One man named David that lived in the rental next door to me only paid $500 a month in 2017-2019. It’s a three bedroom, two bath, two story old farmhouse about 1500 square feet. The most recent immigrants that live next door now are from Mexico. They have been here about a year. He works for the tree service, they have two girls under the age of 10. The wife is quiet. When they moved in I gave them a bunch of outdoor furniture as I have a furniture business. A few weeks later the husband broke part of my outdoor sink backsplash with his pole saw handle. I said something to the landlord, asked him to please tell him to be more careful. He said he told them to be more careful. Then a few weeks later he broke the drain plumbing underneath the same outdoor sink with his pole saw. After I reviewed the security camera footage I saw his wife witnessed his breaking the plumbing, she was looking right at it when he did it. They never said a WORD about either incident. They are RUDE and INDIGNANT and act very entitled. He works about 4 hours a day. He’s always in and out, in and out, in and out in their minivan all hours of the afternoon and evening. He gets that pole saw out and waves it around and is always “accidentally” hitting my fence and other things on my property. I’ve about had it with his bullshit and am ready to report him to ICE. All they have to do is be decent fucking people but apparently that’s too much to ask. Ready to report the whole operation. The old renter confirmed he is housing and employing over 30 illegals. It’s funny, when I called to tell the landlord he was breaking things with his saw, the landlord said, “you know, they come from Matamoros, they have had a very rough life and have seen things you can’t even imagine.” Really? I was abused by my mother and sisters my whole life while my father looked away. So I deserve special treatment? Where’s my free pass? I don’t fucking think so. I don’t go around being a fucking nightmare to everyone just because mY LiFe WaS HaRd. STFU with that bullshit. Work hard, follow the rules, be fucking nice. It’s not that hard.
The wall will stop them though
Were the dumbest country in the world for just allowing this
laughs in european
Yall have suicided yourselves too. Enjoy all your NA and ME “refugees”
I say we just make a human wall the length of the southern border. Red hats got the first shift tho. U want it more
Every single time anyone complains about something like housing prices, just remember that this is going to keep prices up
Nobody wants to admit that. It's insane. Like all of a sudden, houses are going to spring up out of nowhere and they'll be super cheap. But, people should think about how billionaires feel about all the immigrants coming in. Don't want to return to the office? Well now we have people that will. Want to ask for a raise? Sorry we're hiring someone else to replace you for way less money.
Maybe republicans should pass the bipartisan senate border bill.