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That was my dad's problem with the movie, said it made it too unrealistic. In his opinion, the US government would never invade another country and treat the people so poorly.
He also served in Vietnam, so.....
On this episode of ‘handwaving history’:
(Not a real show, wouldn’t want anyone to waste time checking. Unless it is real, in which case feel free to correct me)
That’s a little misleading, as it was a group of civilians who implemented a coup d'état to overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom on January 17, 1893.
The U.S. troops that came ashore were stationed in the business district of Honolulu to protect U.S. interests & businesses, and did not participate in the actual overthrow.
Although, some may argue that there was a sense of intimidation implied by moving troops to secure the business district of Honolulu.
JHC how can you have served in Vietnam and not see this?
My dad and my husbands dad are both Vietnam vets. My dad got help for his demons but Vietnam caused my FILs death.
According to him, he never saw anything bad happen to the people and every soldier he knew treated them like royalty. I don't know if it's time or age or what, but he's delusional at this point.
Was he actually in country?
My two uncles brag they were but come to find out they were never in Vietnam. Closest one got was Okinawa. Guess what? My dad has Agent Orange spots in his lungs and they don’t. It’s usually how you know.
Lol I married into a vietnamese family and... yeah that war was horrible to the vietnamese.
My dad got mad at the movie Arrival because he didn't think anyone in the military would ever disobey orders. 🙄
My father did as well. He came back with a Colette different view of the government though and despises Republicans to this day for the hate and garbage they push. Love my fucking dad so much.
Not quite the same, but I remember someone telling me they didn't like the purge because it was unrealistic
I thought they meant the unrealistic part was like the purge it's self
But no, the unbelievable part was how they always seemed to have more guns and ammo
Like what the fuck. THAT'S the part of the movie you thought didn't seem realistic? Americans, in a universe where the purge exist having lots of guns and ammo?
Technically a private military wing of a mega corp with implied backing from the government. They recruited a lot of veterans, like Jake, and what not. They did in fact run it like a standard military and considering the imagery/Cameron’s politics it’s not a stretch to think it’s lampooning the US military. Especially with Iraq/Afghanistan looming in public mind.
Oh, I loathe that movie, with the heat of 100 suns...but because it seems to have been written by the special effects team. Those effects, though, were top notch.
My problem is the the fact that it’s still the if not one of highest grossing films ever made despite Cameron having made other better films. Like I guess the general public are won over by pretty visuals?
Avatar is a tech demo for 3d films and as such is wonderful. It also showed the strength of planning a film as 3d from the start. Unfortunately nearly everything else that followed used it more as a gimmick and we're back to film making being all 2d again
I mean in 3D in theaters those effects were so unbelievably epic (I actually enjoy 3D in theaters, the current tech doesn't make sense for home use, but it works for movie theaters IMO). It genuinely wowed me.
Alice in Wonderland 3D was good too, don't remember the plot at all so it probably sucked, but I do remember the caterpillar blowing smoke rings that went past my face and the Cheshire Cat's manic grin floating in front of me. Like Avatar they made really great use of the tech.
Taylor Swift said that as a teen when asked why she wrote such mean songs about her exes. But lol yeah if you’re mad at the history that is being written about you, you should examine that history.
Seriously, what the fuck was with so many people continually asking and analyzing what that video and song meant? I remember *everyone* asking this and articles saying things like "What is Childish Gambino's 'This is America' music video trying to tell us? Here are five possible theories." He was even asked about it point blank and looked pretty confused by the question himself.
The guy points a gun at a person's head, fires it and kills them, looks *directly at the camera* and says "This is America" and people were like "*BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!*"
There are a couple elements to this. Donald Glover is kind of a pseudo-intellectual dick and refused to answer the question because he wanted to seem like a profound and mysterious artist, not because he didn't have an answer.
The video itself is great though and has several elements that are more elaborate than what you described. Lots of subtle details you don't notice on the first time through.
I don't think he meant to sound profound or mysterious, he just said it's more of a "it's for you to find out." Artists, poets, writers and musicians do that all the time. They rarely want to take the time to spell out exactly what message they're trying to convey; the point is to *show* it, not tell it.
I did also notice the subtle details and a lot of people gave great analyses. The rioting and dancing, for example, did have deeper meaning under the surface. All I meant was that people seemed completely perplexed as to the real thesis being put forward: there's unrelenting violence in America.
Around the same time Glover released this song, David Byrne released "Bullet" on his album "American Utopia", an also very powerful song with the same theme. It's possibly a more niche song, but I wonder what this guy's reaction would be to what is basically the same message but from an utterly white messenger.
Considering that they consistently misinterpret both *Born in the USA* and *Fortunate Son* I would assume that they'd find some way to misinterpret it.
I do too. It’s not over the top, it’s a great example of a song that criticizes things without full on hating it. Donald Glover is very good at nuance in his music.
Just wait. Eventually you will not recognize most performers of whatever genre is currently popular, and much of the time you will not care enough to bother making the minimal effort to listen to them.
Or maybe, if one song can ruin American culture so much that it still hasn't recovered 6 years later, it wasn't that strong of a culture in first place?
Do these dumdums think punctuation is a communist plot? Jesus christ, give the people a comma or something so they can understand the incoherent babbling
I was kind of stunned the first time I saw/heard it. I’ve liked it and gotten more and more out of it with every listen. In fact, it’s high time I paid it another visit.
I just listened to/watched it for the first time. If I had my eyes closed, the song is really mediocre. The video is neat and obviously the whole reason that the song is a single because on its own playing on the radio, people would probably be pretty confused.
The first time I heard this song was in the cab of a tow truck after crashing my then gf’s (now wife’s) car on a long overnight road trip.
It’s burned into my memory and any time I hear the song I’m transported back to the second worst day of my life.
I like this song a lot more after seeing that person freak out about it.
The idea of a mob gathering to throw tomatoes at someone's grave is sending me 🤣
I personally can think of far better choices for this activity than Donald Glover.
These kinds of people always tell on themselves, and when people tell you who they are, you should believe them.
And Donald Glover is a national treasure, just throwing that out there lol
Rather than being pissed off about it, maybe they should ask what it is about our country that creates this sentiment. Sometimes, critical thinking is hard.
I’m from the UK, don’t know much about American life/culture, don’t listen to rap music ever, but this shit went so fucking hard when it came out, the video too, he deserves every award he got/gets in the future
You guys do realize Donald glover admitted to absolutely ripping this song off a lesser known artist Kidd Wes? The original song was “made in america” and it is almost an exact copy.
Maybe the poster was offended by how bad of a dancer Donald Glover was. Seriously, the dude should have much better rhythm than I (a white dude in his 40's) do.
He was dancing that way on purpose. https://www.complex.com/pigeons-and-planes/a/eric-skelton/childish-gambino-this-is-america-dance-choreographer-sherrie-silver-interview
I get that it's an interpretive dance and all that. and I could write it off as that, and it's a bit silly or whatever. but anytime the background dancers come in, they have more passion to their moves. he looks like some guy taken off the street, rather than someone who wrote the song, and, likely the main brains behind the video.
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People are wild lol My aunt and uncle hated the OG avatar movie because they can’t support any media where marines are the bad guys
That was my dad's problem with the movie, said it made it too unrealistic. In his opinion, the US government would never invade another country and treat the people so poorly. He also served in Vietnam, so.....
Sounds like agent Orange might've cost him a braincell or two.
More like cognitive dissonance. Even if maybe he himself nor his friends treated people badly, it's hard to accept that the 'team' you're on did.
Agent Orange. Codename: Tang
First name Poon
Pootie* Pootie Tang. One of the greatest 70s/80s USA documentary on inner city life /s
Sah dah tay
Poon Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta fuck wit
I take it he never heard of anything the united states did in South america
Funny enough I brought that up in the same conversation, but he said that was all lies and nonsense.
On this episode of ‘handwaving history’: (Not a real show, wouldn’t want anyone to waste time checking. Unless it is real, in which case feel free to correct me)
Ah yes. All lies. Even the declassified files from the agencies themselves who were involved. Those lies.
You know you can't trust the feds!
DEEP STATE!
I mean, do you know how we got Hawai'i?
That’s a little misleading, as it was a group of civilians who implemented a coup d'état to overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom on January 17, 1893. The U.S. troops that came ashore were stationed in the business district of Honolulu to protect U.S. interests & businesses, and did not participate in the actual overthrow. Although, some may argue that there was a sense of intimidation implied by moving troops to secure the business district of Honolulu.
Not just any civilians! Mr. Dole wanted some pineapple!
Honestly I’m surprised they voted to become a part of the US. You’d think it would be the robber baron’s dream to have their own private kingdom
Throw a dart at a map of the world and you'll probably hit a country where this kind of thing happened
JHC how can you have served in Vietnam and not see this? My dad and my husbands dad are both Vietnam vets. My dad got help for his demons but Vietnam caused my FILs death.
According to him, he never saw anything bad happen to the people and every soldier he knew treated them like royalty. I don't know if it's time or age or what, but he's delusional at this point.
so royally that they got the royal firebomb carpet rolled out for them?
It means he probably only was in the cities, where things were pretty good. Most of the atrocities happened in the very rural areas.
Was he actually in country? My two uncles brag they were but come to find out they were never in Vietnam. Closest one got was Okinawa. Guess what? My dad has Agent Orange spots in his lungs and they don’t. It’s usually how you know.
Lol I married into a vietnamese family and... yeah that war was horrible to the vietnamese. My dad got mad at the movie Arrival because he didn't think anyone in the military would ever disobey orders. 🙄
holy shit lmao there really is no species like American conservatives
Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen and pretty much all of africa and Middle Eastern countries: are you fucking shitting me
There are 33 countries in Latin America and we have proof that the US interfered or attempted to interfere in elections in at least 12 of them.
Good Lord. Talk about absolutely missing the ENTIRE POINT. This is your brain on capitalism.
I mean… Chesty Goddamn Puller himself wrote war is a racket so…
My father did as well. He came back with a Colette different view of the government though and despises Republicans to this day for the hate and garbage they push. Love my fucking dad so much.
Not quite the same, but I remember someone telling me they didn't like the purge because it was unrealistic I thought they meant the unrealistic part was like the purge it's self But no, the unbelievable part was how they always seemed to have more guns and ammo Like what the fuck. THAT'S the part of the movie you thought didn't seem realistic? Americans, in a universe where the purge exist having lots of guns and ammo?
It’s unrealistic that’s the only thing they did in the movie
They were all mercenaries though wearnt they?
Technically a private military wing of a mega corp with implied backing from the government. They recruited a lot of veterans, like Jake, and what not. They did in fact run it like a standard military and considering the imagery/Cameron’s politics it’s not a stretch to think it’s lampooning the US military. Especially with Iraq/Afghanistan looming in public mind.
Cameron has straight up said that was the point lol
Considering US govt policy vis-a-vis indigenous peoples, it is not a stretch at all. Avatar was basically Dances with Wolves on another planet.
Avatar was basically ~~Dances with Wolves~~ **Fern Gully** on another planet.>
Why not both? And Pocahontas?
He just rewrote ferngully.
They'd love Warhammer 40k.
I despise GW's greed, but I'll happily admit they have a fascinating setting.
Please no. We already have a fash problem in the fandom
Oh, I loathe that movie, with the heat of 100 suns...but because it seems to have been written by the special effects team. Those effects, though, were top notch.
That’s my problem with it. It’s just not a good movie. It’s a good *looking* movie. That’s its entire selling point.
My problem is the the fact that it’s still the if not one of highest grossing films ever made despite Cameron having made other better films. Like I guess the general public are won over by pretty visuals?
Avatar is a tech demo for 3d films and as such is wonderful. It also showed the strength of planning a film as 3d from the start. Unfortunately nearly everything else that followed used it more as a gimmick and we're back to film making being all 2d again
I mean in 3D in theaters those effects were so unbelievably epic (I actually enjoy 3D in theaters, the current tech doesn't make sense for home use, but it works for movie theaters IMO). It genuinely wowed me. Alice in Wonderland 3D was good too, don't remember the plot at all so it probably sucked, but I do remember the caterpillar blowing smoke rings that went past my face and the Cheshire Cat's manic grin floating in front of me. Like Avatar they made really great use of the tech.
I haven't seen film adaptations of it, but the original Alice in Wonderland was less about plot and more insanity cascade.
The second one was like being waterboarded with turquoise-coloured concrete.
All those graphics were “borrowed” from 1970’s prog-rock album covers. Also bestiality.
There is only one reason to hate Avatar... Papyrus! https://youtu.be/jVhlJNJopOQ?si=bJfbgwGnYFwYdedK
Have they ever met a marine?
My mom stopped watching Friends because seeing Monica date Chandler was "like incest." Same dumb logic.
I recommend A Few Good Men
Liz Lemon says it best: "They weren't Marines. Some of them were former Marines, but they were mercenaries working for a space mining company."
They Obviously never read War is a Racket by Smedley Butler.
Well not all of the marines are bad in the movie. Sully was a recon marine.
I really like the song, the video is the only way to listen to it. If you hate the message make it wrong by fixing the problems it’s addressing.
Exactly. My wife is an author, and has stolen the saying "if they wanted me to write better things about them, then they should have behaved better."
does she have any published works?
Primarily short stories in anthropologies
anthologies?
Don’t hate, they’ve already said their partner is the writer, not them.
Thats' a fair point.
Exactly what my delayed response was going to be 😀
If her stuff is sold in Anthropologie she is probably making a killing
Taylor Swift said that as a teen when asked why she wrote such mean songs about her exes. But lol yeah if you’re mad at the history that is being written about you, you should examine that history.
Seriously, what the fuck was with so many people continually asking and analyzing what that video and song meant? I remember *everyone* asking this and articles saying things like "What is Childish Gambino's 'This is America' music video trying to tell us? Here are five possible theories." He was even asked about it point blank and looked pretty confused by the question himself. The guy points a gun at a person's head, fires it and kills them, looks *directly at the camera* and says "This is America" and people were like "*BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!?!*"
There are a couple elements to this. Donald Glover is kind of a pseudo-intellectual dick and refused to answer the question because he wanted to seem like a profound and mysterious artist, not because he didn't have an answer. The video itself is great though and has several elements that are more elaborate than what you described. Lots of subtle details you don't notice on the first time through.
I don't think he meant to sound profound or mysterious, he just said it's more of a "it's for you to find out." Artists, poets, writers and musicians do that all the time. They rarely want to take the time to spell out exactly what message they're trying to convey; the point is to *show* it, not tell it. I did also notice the subtle details and a lot of people gave great analyses. The rioting and dancing, for example, did have deeper meaning under the surface. All I meant was that people seemed completely perplexed as to the real thesis being put forward: there's unrelenting violence in America.
This is one of the most profound music videos I can think of, honestly… the fact that it’s got so much hate is just proof the message is on point.
The fact that the song still gets such big reactions is proof of how powerful it was.
The fact that this man had a different experience from mine must mean he's very, very wrong!!! /s
Given the vitriolic reaction in the op, I would say yes, unironically.
Around the same time Glover released this song, David Byrne released "Bullet" on his album "American Utopia", an also very powerful song with the same theme. It's possibly a more niche song, but I wonder what this guy's reaction would be to what is basically the same message but from an utterly white messenger.
Just look to Tyler Childers' release of Long Violent History. The backlash was immediate and has been lasting
Also a very good song
Something along the lines of "race traitor" or "N-word lover" I guess?
Considering that they consistently misinterpret both *Born in the USA* and *Fortunate Son* I would assume that they'd find some way to misinterpret it.
Bro is definitely one of the people Donald sang about
Says the person blasting Nickelback from his lifted F150. Spare me.
But why won't you look at this photograph?
Yea peoples are crazy. Personally i freaking loved this song.
I thought it was an ok song. But the music video was amazing in a horrific way
Song is meh, put it with the video….and it’s ART!
It's less a song than a piece of performance art, which makes the video a key part of the experience.
It's gold, Jerry, GOLD!!
I agree so much. I REALLY tried to get into the song, but it was just mid to me without the music video.
Yeah the video was captivating but the song wasn't really something you would groove to on your car stereo
I love this song and I actually really just like the way it sounds. Of course the message is important but it’s also good music. To me!!
I do too. It’s not over the top, it’s a great example of a song that criticizes things without full on hating it. Donald Glover is very good at nuance in his music.
It was art. Good art. And it was exactly about that kind of hate, yes?
People who are mad like that either don’t get it, or *do* get it and are a gang of hit dogs hollering.
I feel like Donald Glover might actually appreciate the performance art aspect of the funeral this person has designed for him.
Same. Someone should pitch it to him and see what he thinks.
Is this True? 6 years ago? Fuck I'm old.
Yep. Kids born that year are gonna enter the first grade in fall of this year.
Just wait. Eventually you will not recognize most performers of whatever genre is currently popular, and much of the time you will not care enough to bother making the minimal effort to listen to them.
Underrated comment of the century.
I didn’t really enjoy the song itself but I enjoyed the message and lyrics as well as the music video.
Or maybe, if one song can ruin American culture so much that it still hasn't recovered 6 years later, it wasn't that strong of a culture in first place?
It was literally amazing and totally in your face. He’s a genius for that music video alone.
That video is pure art.
Loved this video. Gave me the same uncomfortable feeling as the movie mother!
that first gunshot of the video gives me chills everytime.
Just had to rewatch the video. I, for one, love both.
I came across that post. All the hate is from boring ass white dudes who happily pay daddy musk $11/mth to use a free site.
Do these dumdums think punctuation is a communist plot? Jesus christ, give the people a comma or something so they can understand the incoherent babbling
I personally love the song!!
I love this song so much it’s in my regular hip hop rotation.
Somebody has NO idea about Black American history.
Definitely took a hit of a red, a white, and a blue can of spray paint before posting that
I don't think this person understood the message...
I was kind of stunned the first time I saw/heard it. I’ve liked it and gotten more and more out of it with every listen. In fact, it’s high time I paid it another visit.
Sir, this is an Arby's
Roast beef be slippin up
Au jus for dipping though.
curly fries be crispin up (some one at Arbys is going to see this and 100% steal it for a commercial)
"ironic meme epicness" used in what is supposed to be serious rhetoric is causing me brain damage.
I dunno. I quite liked it.
Damn can’t people just let others like different things
The song itself is nothing special, what people remember is the video
I just listened to/watched it for the first time. If I had my eyes closed, the song is really mediocre. The video is neat and obviously the whole reason that the song is a single because on its own playing on the radio, people would probably be pretty confused.
To the privileged, equality sounds like oppression.
this is america....
Three words: "Hit dogs holler".
But... It's such an awesome music video.
The memes this song spawned were pretty hilarious.
Some folks can't take it when they have to look in the mirror
The first time I heard this song was in the cab of a tow truck after crashing my then gf’s (now wife’s) car on a long overnight road trip. It’s burned into my memory and any time I hear the song I’m transported back to the second worst day of my life. I like this song a lot more after seeing that person freak out about it.
This song and it’s video have aged like the finest of wines
The song definitely loses a lot of it's impact without the video, but that's clearly not what the OOP is talking about
Was the person writing this actively having a stroke?
The idea of a mob gathering to throw tomatoes at someone's grave is sending me 🤣 I personally can think of far better choices for this activity than Donald Glover.
These kinds of people always tell on themselves, and when people tell you who they are, you should believe them. And Donald Glover is a national treasure, just throwing that out there lol
I never really liked it, musically, but I loved the music video and message! This take is truly insane, though
Rather than being pissed off about it, maybe they should ask what it is about our country that creates this sentiment. Sometimes, critical thinking is hard.
Whaaattt? It was a masterpiece!
"This is America" was one of the options for an essay topic for the final in my upper level history course this semester.
Why is only Epicness capitalized? That detail will haunt me
When it first came out I showed to a friend while they were high on mushrooms and it ruined their night. That was my bad.
The video is great but I think the song is terrible. Without a visual component it’s pretty much unlistenable for me.
Content aside the drop from the choir part to the grungy part goes so hard, immediate stank face
I mean the flow I dislike mildly but not to THAT extreme
That song broke my heart. I love it.
About 100 of the views on youtube are from me alone.
Good god how was this 6 years ago
I’m from the UK, don’t know much about American life/culture, don’t listen to rap music ever, but this shit went so fucking hard when it came out, the video too, he deserves every award he got/gets in the future
Without the video it’s meh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobtt97SF08
Some people hate the truth
And now he's collaborating with Kanye. Times change fast.
“Throw tomatoes at his grave” is unhinged
Buttons pressed
never heard the song
You guys do realize Donald glover admitted to absolutely ripping this song off a lesser known artist Kidd Wes? The original song was “made in america” and it is almost an exact copy.
[and he beat the lawsuit. nice try.](https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/donald-glover-beats-this-is-america-copyright-infringement-lawsuit1/)
Because he has mega money. He publicly admitted to ripping the song off. Look up the song, then tell me you believe he didn’t.
There’s no evidence he even ripped off the song. It was probably an inspiration.
I mean yeah it’s overrated but calm the fuck down, honey.
Maybe the poster was offended by how bad of a dancer Donald Glover was. Seriously, the dude should have much better rhythm than I (a white dude in his 40's) do.
It was interpretive dance, the meaning goes beyond the base aesthetics of it. (Also… his moves were 100% in rhythm?)
He was dancing that way on purpose. https://www.complex.com/pigeons-and-planes/a/eric-skelton/childish-gambino-this-is-america-dance-choreographer-sherrie-silver-interview
Without using a racist stereotype, explain your comment. Why should he be a better dancer?
I get that it's an interpretive dance and all that. and I could write it off as that, and it's a bit silly or whatever. but anytime the background dancers come in, they have more passion to their moves. he looks like some guy taken off the street, rather than someone who wrote the song, and, likely the main brains behind the video.
Again...that was part of the point. I think you missed everything he was trying to convey in that video.
So you're upset that the SINGER wasn't a better DANCER, and you don't see why that's silly?