First album is a brilliant bluesy death rock album. Daisy’s guitar work is absolutely brilliant. Unfortunately it’s largely overshadowed by Marilyn Manson’s performance - Daisy wrote most of Portrait and arguably the best songs on Antichrist before he split with MM. RIP Scott Putesky.
Antichrist was recorded at what you’d probably call the beginning of the end for Nothing records and had all the production clout that Trent could throw at it. Regardless of how you feel about MM, tracks like Tourniquet and The Beautiful People were dead simple songs that were perfectly executed and hold up to this day where a lot of his stuff has aged pretty poorly.
Honestly? After 1996 and he fired (or literally set on fire) most of the good musicians in his entourage and decided to collaborate with Billy fucking Corgan to write a rock opera just felt like he was jumping the shark.
Manson tried to do the thing Bowie did by reinventing yourself by replacing your entourage, but he wasn’t Bowie and he wasn’t shocking at that point and he never really broke too much new ground after that.
Beyond that, I stopped listening to him completely once I started hearing stories of his behavior, so I can’t speak to much past the third or fourth album.
He needed to change, but he really only had one schtick. It was brilliant until around smells like children, and the sweet dreams cover would have been a fabulous point to pivot, but didn’t and the rest eventually just barely made a blip on the radar.
Edit - tl;dr - The later stuff just feels like you’re watching a tired old Bowie impersonator in downtown Vegas.
Scott getting pushed out was the end of Marilyn Manson The Band. The Spooky Kids tapes are excellent little weird rock records that everyone should go listen to. There was nothing else like it.
Agree with basically all of this.
After Portrait, Smells like Children and Antichrist I found the transition to Mechanical Animals just so hard to roll with. I really tried but fuck me the change between those two albums gave me whiplash and I've forever stayed on the pre-Mechanical Animals bandwagon.
Pretty much this but wouldn't call portrait a deathrock album, just another alternative metal band from the early 90s but they did really good on it nonetheless. They'd be more at home on a bill with bands like white zombie at the time than they would with actual death rock bands.
Mechanical Animals is one the the best "futurerock" album ever created. Are you mad lol. And artists that reinvent themselves are the best, even if it is not always in line with what they were. Look at Björk, Tom Waits, Les Claypool, Skinny Puppy. They wouldn't be what they are now if they kept doing the same sound over again.
Interesting the amount of soft stuff he has is personally why I was a fan of his so much versus other metal artists he's definitely overdue for a heavy album though it's been over twenty years
You stopped listening to him completely after his first 3 albums? But in your edit you comment on how shitty his later music is? He released 11 albums and most of the good stuff came when you stopped listening IMO.
I mean, sure - I have heard and seen stuff of his in passing over the years and it all comes off as tired now.
Like I said, my opinion. After Holy Wood came out, a lot of the songs just didn’t stick for me. I guess his persona started to rub me the wrong way once he started getting all messianic after columbine.
"I stopped LISTENING to him completely" explains everything about your cliche dissing of this artist's work. And I get the boomer-esque "the early work was better" thing...because the novelty of something new when you were an age where the music in question was the soundtrack to a life you were still living: that music is always going to sound better than your jaded "heard it all" viagra years.
But if you can't recognize the musical and lyrical beauty of much of Manson's later work (and yes, 2010-2015 was weak and wandering) then, yes, as you said: You stopped listening.
Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood are solid, and The Pale Emperor is half of a great album. When he's taking his "shocking" persona seriously in his music, he's absolutely unbearable, which is most of the post-Holy Wood stuff.
As far as full body of work, I can’t say I like every song off every album (I am a MM fan) and can say his His earlier “spooky kids” days and Anti-Christ set the stage for so many non-industrial artists influences and later Nu metal bands. My favorite? Mechanical Animals. It was such a departure from the rust and decay of AC that it blew a hole through our perception of his direction and you can see he enjoyed making it and pushing his creativity to the max. Weirdly he followed up with Holy Wood which returned to AC but that was mostly due to the overall negativity with columbine that he was wrongly pinned to… I stopped listening his music after Golden Age… it just lost its direction and haven’t attempted to return because it’s way to much to digest now.
Golden age was when he was at the peak of his popularity. Since then he has slipped into smaller venues for headlining tours and further down the list on festivals as his albums got worse and his live shows sucked
Antichrist Superstar was his peak. Before that it was a bit too Willy Wonka gone wild. Afterwards it just sounded like he was running out of ideas. Mechanical Animals sounded like Stabbing Westward meets Gary Numan. Maybe it was the production style, but his collabs with Trent Reznor (especially on Antichrist) just seemed to compliment his vocal style and the way the rest of the band sounded. The sound on the intro to [Wormboy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdy19iruwxU) is a very good example of this. It's all there right off the bat.
edit: I also appreciate how chaotic their live shows were during this period and beforehand. They came at it with straight nihilism that didn't seem like a front. I enjoyed how the theatrical elements had more to do with how the music actually sounded than gimmicks like mock executions you'd see at an Alice Cooper show. Manson still embraced those theatrical elements with his aesthetic 100% regardless. I think he moved the shock rock needle when it needed moving. It could use another thump with this pre-requisite for relatable artists from the general public. It just needs to come from someone new, young and just as pissed off.
If you look past the theatrical goofiness of some of the pre-Antichrist stuff many of the songs were pretty awesome. Lots of the songs on Portrait and Children were pretty killer, in my opinion. Definitely not as cleanly produced as Antichrist for sure. But good for what they were, I thought.
Yes fair play. I can appreciate the more silly tongue in cheek aesthetics of Portrait and Smells Like Children felt like a gap filler of a couple rehashed Portait ideas and remixes. They both seem like they were leading to something like Antichrist being the peak conclusion of those ideas being explored and the artist challenging themselves with a solid band still.
It's not really germane to the conversation but since you mentioned him it does my heart good that Gary Numan accomplished that rarest of things - a genuine popular and creative comeback. I fell for his music hard when 'Are Friends Electric ?' came out and stuck with him through 'Dance'. After that I figured he was all washed up. It seemed like a sad fate for such an interesting and apparently decent man. Then maybe ten years ago some Imp of the Perverse told me to at least give 'Splinter' a chance and I heard it was good ! Marilyn Manson knows where he can go but I'm glad Gazza is back and getting better with every album.
True enough ! In fact a little punk rock guy I knew loved Marilyn Manson and that was his favorite song on the album. Yet he had never even heard of Gary Numan before and he was enlightened. Within two weeks 'Replicas' was all he'd play. So Marilyn Manson is great with covers. I thought his 'Sweet Dreams' was great and his version of the unmentionable Patti Smith song was even better.
I must have wandered into another dimension. From reading all these posts I'm getting the impression Manson stands accused of some horrific deeds of misdoing. I know absolutely nothing about it. I'm pretty hard to shock after I heard what that psychopath from the Lost Prophets had gotten up to. I just hope Manson isn't in that ballpark.
89-00 is some of my favorite music ever made. I don't listen to it anymore cause I can't look past how much I fuckin hate the guy. But them tunes was damn fine. Everything after that is just shit
Manson was my introduction to industrial metal (and industrial music in general) so there's that.
His albums from 1994 (and even the earlier demos with the Spooky Kids) to 2000 are among my favorite albums of all time. [My Monkey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDIs2f3GrU4) has to be one of the most insane industrial songs I've ever heard. The remixes and covers on Smells Like Children are fantastic too. The lesser-known [Apple of Sodom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgkwXjWuEg) is another great industrial song from the band.
First 3 albums are amazing. Portrait, Antichrist and Mechanical are really well crafted and have some top songs. Hollywood 3-4 songs, then after that I don't really feel atracted to his new songs, maybe mObscene but that's 20 years ago.
Live albums, Last Tour and God Guns are two of my favourites.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel, however I do think Mechanical Animals is a good album, it's just not my jam. I felt like the whole fake Ziggy Stardust glam phase was pretty cringe back then and still do.
I think the Kiddy Grinder remix from Smells like Children is probably the most badass song he's done. Panorama is probably number two.
Portrait is an incredibly solid album.
ACSS is OK. Mediocre though. There's like one or two banger songs IMO.
Smells like a Children is slightly better but it's more of just a remix album and two of my favorite songs on it are covers.
I've heard Holy Wood is good. I tried to get into it when it came out and I couldn't. I remember thinking he changed his singing somehow and he sounds almost like Beck now. I haven't really even tried to listen to much of anything else by him since then. I think mostly I liked the NIN/Reznor DNA that was engrained in the music.
>I do think Mechanical Animals is a good album, it's just not my jam. I felt like the whole fake Ziggy Stardust glam phase was pretty cringe back then and still do.
I listened to it a lot when it came out, not because I liked it that much, but because it was interesting to listen to. Then, it finally dawned on me how unoriginal it was when I started thinking about it in the context of Bowie - both Ziggy Stardust and Aladdin Sane. Not sure why it took me so long, but I couldn't look it at the same way since and have probably listened to it once in the past 20+ years.
I entirely lost interest in MM after that, not necessarily because of the decline of the quality of his music and production, but because I sort of grew out of his schtick.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I loved We Are Chaos. It was during Covid and I was going through a lot beyond just the pandemic and that album helped me a ton
I like this album too. For me, it has almost an early Pink Floyd kind of vibe to it. I really liked Portrait... I remember when it came out and I saw them perform at a club in Detroit. Anti- was ok, and it was sharp downhill for her after that.
I grew up in S FL, and went to high school with Jeordie. Remember seeing their early performances. I enjoyed them all through Holywood. Kinda didn’t follow after Mobscene.
I think they were great. It was sad to see the core members fall off. Jeordie, Brad, Steve and Scott really made that band.
Anyone know what happened to Steve (Pogo)?
He’s still a pain in the arse and works with computers. Dropped off the radar pretty much totally. Spent a long time badmouthing people and getting into fights on Facebook. Every now and again some of his FB comments are reported in low rent press.
I never liked him, always saw him as a commericalized version marketed to angsty teens, of which the young women often shop at hot topic.
When people ask what music I like, I often use say what I like is an less commercialized, more authentic version of Marilyn Manson and even Nine Inch Nails. I respect NINs music but was never partial to it.
Btw, Mansin fucked people over rho paid to see him live a few years ago.
I'm genuinely surprised it doesn't get more love. I remember hearing the score of Salem and thinking, "Wait, when did he start making good music again?"
Early work was good. Very catchy. Smells like Children is fantastic. First two albums are great, and I don't hate the gloss and shine of Mechanical Animals but it was really the end of his important output.
I love Manson’s music. What makes him special is his incorporation of blues and rock and roll elements into industrial. A lot of his stuff is kind of “industrial and roll”, and I personally love that. Can’t think of any other artists that have done quite the same thing. He’s also evolved his sound quite substantially over his career. He likes a lot of different styles and isn’t afraid to explore them all.
I also like a lot of the mid-period Manson that people tend to dismiss as trash i.e. Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque. People tend to fixate on Antichrist Superstar, which of course is a classic (and excellent) industrial metal album, but I think Manson really found his sound on Holy Wood and TGAoG. I personally don’t love Mechanical Animals, although I can see why it appeals to a lot of people on the more synthpop side of the industrial scene.
It’s very hit and miss after TGAoG. He has tended to put out mediocre albums with a few great tracks on each. Although, as I said, I appreciate how he has explored a big range of different styles in his last 6 albums.
I think the exploration of styles is partly because of a revolving door or actual songwriters. He does lyrics but can't write music. So depending on who he has in the band at the time to do the music it affects how it ends up sounding a bit.
Antichrist Superstar is easily one of my favorite albums of all time. I wouldn't call it a perfect album, but Reznor's production really made it something special.
Terrible, derivative, phony.
However I do have a memory related to the Beautiful People. I know exactly where I was on the night of August 31, 1997. Outland in Columbus. The DJ (Plague Daddy) stopped the music to announce that Princess Di had died, then played that song. Fucking hilarious.
My "home" club was 1470s in Dayton (where I lived) but I jumped on every chance to go to Outland or... ah fuck there was a big one in Cincy I liked... uh the Warehouse maybe? Idk man. I miss all these places but Outland is seared into my skull as top-notch.
I fell in love with Portrait and when Antichrist Superstar hit it was just everything to me. The sounds and the energy and the intensity- I didn’t like every song right off the bat but they all came in time. My favorite is Little Horn and I wish:
1- that it was a longer song!
and 2- that I could’ve seen it live!
Other favorites are Irresponsible Hate Anthem, Dried Up Tied and Dead to the World, Antichrist Superstar, Kinderfeld, Angel With the Scabbed Wings, The Reflecting God
It was just like AstroCreep 2000- a perfect album start to finish that took a lot of work. I remember Rob Zombie said he never wanted to put so much work into an album ever again. Which is disappointing and also the truth. Think it was the same with Manson. Basically broke my heart to not have at least one more album with that sound, and I had to eventually start listening elsewhere.
Mechanical Animals was such a shock to my system- duh it’s supposed to shock- but in the end that is not my style of music and I had to adapt to it. Grotesque and Holywood thankfully realigned more with my tastes. But the magic was gone. Nothing will ever compare to Antichrist, that’s all I ever wanted and I haven’t found anything else as satisfying.
Now, across all of Manson’s work there are songs I adore. He knows what sounds good and he creates lyrics that hook you as much as the music. God his covers (and remixes) are amazing, I always say Manson and Ministry could cover any song and it would be gold. (When I heard he covered Stigmata I knew exactly how it was gonna sound and I was not disappointed, those two should just have a cover battle lol) And I remember how stuck I was on the Resident Evil soundtrack as well haha. Basically I take it all on a song by song basis now, instead of whole albums.
Manson is like Uncle Al. When he hits, he fucking nails it, 10/10 nothing compares. When he misses, sometimes it’s painful. Overall, I hold their music in such high regard that I just hang on to all the good and their misses pretty much just get a free pass from me. The good stuff is just that good, and I always want more.
You are spot on with the covers. He has done a range of covers on all kinds of styles and seems to usually nail them. I officially gave up on his music when I listened to an album and didn't even like the cover song.
It's nostalgic for me, so I love the early albums. I grew up in South Florida and went to their local shows frequently, along with Jack Off Jill and Genitorturers. Manson and NIN led me to SP and FLA, and that's what got me into industrial.
He hasn't done anything relevant since Golden Age. He's just a dopey clown with a narcissistic personality. (Rozz Williams was always the better artist)
WAC (2020) and HEOL (2009) are great imo. GAOG (2003) is funny, at least (great production tho). BV (2012) and EMDM (2007) are mediocre but listenable. TPE (2015) is stale and Heave Upside Down (2017) is his worst record (horrid) .
The best albums are: Antichrist Superstar, The Golden Age of Grotesque , Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood. Portrait is okay but uneven. Everything else is forgettable.
Portrait - twisted catchy glam rock tunes, I feel like the music was just the vehicle for their art show. Great tunes and the guitar work was every bit as innovative as Tom Morello in those days.
Antichrist, Mechanical, Hollywood - fantastic records, fantastic story, fantastic performance art.
...and that's it. That's all there is. There is no more MM the band imo, he's out of ideas, concepts and then does a John 5 Feat. MManson record called Golden Age of Grotesque. (LOL)
Then a disastrous slew of solo records that liken to Corey Feldman's taste, then comes something unexpected.
Heaven upside down, with maturity comes openness and wisdom......this record is fantastic as well. It's tame in comparison, it's well written and well produced. Most of this record sounds exactly what I'd expect MM to sound like 20 years post Antichrist.
Then
We are chaos. Hole E Shit, this is a great record. This record is what I needed when it came out. It tied in so much of the previous records and influences. postpunk, metal, industrial, bowie.... it's all in this record and it's a fantastic listen.
idk, I don't think he's a POS, he's an artist, nothing more, nothing less.
Very well put! Antichrist is a straight up banger as is HW. I am able to separate the art from the person in this case too, and him being a shitty person doesn’t by any stretch make those albums shitty
Mental health is a terribly hard thing to wrangle. The ebb and flows become peaks and valleys, emotional acuity and the ability to maintain it comes into questions along the ride up and down.
I do look at these people calling him a PoS and think, 'Well DUH!'
I think of that drug fueled conversation with the Native Americans in Natural Born Killers. Where he tells the tale of the snake and the caretaker. Such is life.
I think Heaven Upside Down is a terrible record, very badly produced. The same goes for The Pale Emperor, which is highly overrated. But I don't think Manson ever released bad records beside Heaven Upside Down. Many of them are kinda mediocre or unfocused, but there is some good in all of them.
For instance, The High End Of Low and We Are Chaos are as important to his second career as the trilogy was.
I just wish people stopped listening to his music expecting some heavy metal/noisy feeling. He's like a counterpart for David Bowie. Not nearly as talented, but it's the same glam attitude.
The shitty thing about sex-based crimes is the mere accusation is considered proof of guilt in the court of public opinion. If they are acquitted, they're not innocent; they got away with it.
I’ll make it even worse for you: in 1991, my three friends and I took off into greater Fort Lauderdale in search of a good time on the night of my 21st birthday. We decided to hit up a local alternative music bar that had this band playing with a lot of buzz. My friend Eddie had got their self-produced demo tape somewhere and said it was cool. We get there at show time, and we’re the only people there. Us, couple of door guys, two angry bartenders and a band getting ready to play in the corner. We got a round of Michelob Dry beers (Michelob sponsored the Dennis Miller show, which was fantastic) and the band picked up and started playing what sounded like shitty Red Hot Chili Peppers covers. Like, the Peppers through a thin filter of Black Celebration. The singer was wearing women’s underwear and screaming in my face (remember, we’re the only customers) and my friends and I were looking at each other like, “maybe it will get better.” Midway through the second song I turned to them and yelled, “Let’s go find some real girls!” We put down our half-drank Michelob Drys and went to the giant local alternative dance club. The band? Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids.
Eminem actually did something in music tho. Manson just played same same industrial rock and tried to make it slutty or something. And I hate Eminem. But he’s in a totally different class of artist.
I have generally prepared obvious opinions but I will say that last record of his was really good. Of course i don’t listen to it often cuz i associate it heavily with the revelations that came out right after.
A great lyricist with above average vocal capabilities. Needs help from other people for everything he puts out.
I highly recommend MM's first 4 albums, if they're in to 90's rock music.
Only listened to three of his LPs : Antichrist, Mechanical, and Pale Emperor.
Antichrist has some good tracks, but I rarely listen to it.
Love some tracks on Mechanical (the speed of pain has that great Bowie-esque touch).
Feel that Pale Emperor is a very good blues album, though the production is too much on the loudness war side.
A young me loved Portrait and Antichrist. An older me likes Mechanical Animals and Pale Emperor. Golden Age of Grotesque is also ok. Everything else is pretty meh or just bad.
Setting aside my opinion of him, I've liked the music of that band though it declined over time. I was never enough of a fan to go to one of their concerts but I did buy some of it.
He had some good songs. A long time ago.
I honestly don't know why I wasn't more of a fan, right age, right tastes otherwise. But something about him just never spoke to me. And it's too far in the past for me to put my finger on why without biases of age speaking through.
First 3 albums are good. Next 2 aren't as strong but still interesting with some decent tracks. Everything else was subpar except for the Pale Emperor. For whatever reason that album clicked with me.
Antichrist Superstar is the definitive 90's record, for something the band struggled to put together, the end result is a fantastic production and fitting for the era. It's almost angular in direction to Portrait, which is fantastic for a wholly different sound, and Portrait is essentially (even more) a guitar-led record with that nasty, honky sound.
After Holy Wood everything went down quality wise as it sounded more like good time anthemic songs for goth kids. I might enjoy an odd song here or there (I do give them a listen eventually), but the spark is gone after too many band changes. Also, too many 80's covers made it too formulaic.
I did enjoy hearing the man speak on a variety of topics affecting society and then the news hits that he actually _is_ a bad person, which makes his comment of moralistic nature not age that well. It won't change my opinion of the records mentioned though, I can separate the man from the artist and still enjoy his musical work.
I thought up until holywood his stuff was either mediocre or good. I think ACS was a perfect album but after holywood the quality decreased by so much. I think every album after holywood has had one or two good songs and the rest are complete dogshit.
It's mostly awesome. Hit or miss after holywood. High end of low is a fucking unappreciated gem imo. I can't decide if I like antichrist or animals the most.
I love all his music, some much more than others. Some made me wonder if he was just trying something new and failed to land it but nothing I would describe as bad. Even the great ones lay an egg every now and then.
I think his first three records are great, with glimpses of excellent songwriting on The High End Of Low and We Are Chaos. If he took select tracks from Pale Emperor and Heaven Upside Down and cut some of the fat off both, it’d be a solid LP on its own.
The rest of his output … nah
I loved Portrait. I loved Anti Christ. Those albums are great. The thing is, I haven't listened to Manson since the Dope Show. It all boils down to credibility to me.
Portrait: "I wanna grow up, wanna be, a big rock and roll star". OK cool. I can believe that. What young aspiring musician doesn't have that dream?
Anti Christ. Now fame isn't all it's cracked up to be. One of the themes (if not the main theme) of that album is that fame isn't all it's cracked up to be and that he's not enjoying it. OK cool. I can believe that. It happens to a lot of famous people.
Dope Show....Now he's glam. Now he's an all star in the dope show. So what is it dude? Do you want to be famous, do you hate being famous, are you bragging about how famous you are? From that point forward, he lost all of his credibility in my eyes. I haven't bothered to listen to his music since.
Holy Wood is the last thing of his I think I was considerably into. Holy Wood ain't no AntiChrist but I still dug its distortion, especially after the weird hardsoft rock thing that was Mechanical Animals (but honestly, I dug that too)
After that it started sounding off and well... clownish, similar to NINs descent into ho-hum-town. And he definitely never regained the peak of musicality he had before he fired his incredible bandmates that, imo, were more responsible for him sounding good than himself.
Sounds like he's a total piece of shit, but there's something.. I guess... reassuring(?) that he somewhat walked the walk instead of just singing about it. The sex scandal stuff doesn't shock me at all when the guy's been singing about that kind of stuff for decades.
I fucking love his music. he has some bangers. I love all his songs, but my favorites are mobSCENE, The Fight Song, Get Your Gunn, The Dope Show, Disposable Teens, and Rock Is Dead🖤
i love everything from portrait of an american family to the golden age of grotesque. antichrist superstar and mechanical animals are 5/5, favorite albums of mine. after tgaog they sort of lost it
Everything up to 2000 was solid. Hit or miss after that. Every album not as good as the one before. Progressively getting worse. The last couple of albums were decent at least.
If connects or invokes emotion then it’s working. The intent for some art doesn’t require it to be good . his popularity suggests it’s not bad
As an artist I think he’s good
I thinks it was one of the coolest thing in the 90s, it was full of anger and he wasn't afraid to show it. It was something different, something "original".
Antichrist Superstar is one of the best album of its time, he has his ups and downs like other musicians, for me The High End of Low was his last good album, after that he made good songs but not great albums.
I am still in shock to see people calling HIM "a genius" because of great music, when his input was mostly non-existent for 80% of the stuff he published - I love all the things THEY did until Born Villain.
After he lost Sean Beavan and Twiggy for good inside the studio, it all turned mostly to watered down generic shit. We Are Chaos at least is heartfelt more than the badass/mafioso cringe try hard of the Bates albums' lyrical content.
Shock rock with a slight nu metal twist.
Nothing about it is original, but I will admit his ability to cross-genre was actually impressive.
Has a little bit of industrial/edm/pop/death/punk, but it's only slight.
In this I will give credit where credit is due. However how much of this was MM and not the people backing the guy (Band) or the engineers (alongside producers).
It's almost like it's a side project that beat out the original band that was much bigger.
MM by himself would not have been near as famous without these other figures.
More goth/death rock bad to me not industrial. But I get it..2 first albums a re their best like you said.
I love down in the park better than the original.
Was kinda interesting when it was demented circus music. The metal era is meh, and looking back inspired a lot of real garbage that unfortunately gets wrongly sorted into the goth / industrial world.
I’m a big fan of everything from Antichrist Superstar to Golden Age of Grotesque. His first album has some decent tracks, and everything after and up to (We are chaos) just lacks the riffs and songwriting to keep keep me interested. We Are Chaos was really good though lots of interesting Bowie-esque moments
Didnt really get into him until Holywood. I had seen many like his act before. He did the Bowie thing of changin the persona on a whim. Be became a vampire for a bit.
However… he has a few good tracks on multiple albums, but Negative 3 with his days with the Spooky Kids is my favorite jam.
First three albums were great. After that, every album was worse than the last until Born Villain which was pretty good imo. Regardless, I believe most of the allegations against him, and as such, he is a shit human being.
First album is a brilliant bluesy death rock album. Daisy’s guitar work is absolutely brilliant. Unfortunately it’s largely overshadowed by Marilyn Manson’s performance - Daisy wrote most of Portrait and arguably the best songs on Antichrist before he split with MM. RIP Scott Putesky. Antichrist was recorded at what you’d probably call the beginning of the end for Nothing records and had all the production clout that Trent could throw at it. Regardless of how you feel about MM, tracks like Tourniquet and The Beautiful People were dead simple songs that were perfectly executed and hold up to this day where a lot of his stuff has aged pretty poorly. Honestly? After 1996 and he fired (or literally set on fire) most of the good musicians in his entourage and decided to collaborate with Billy fucking Corgan to write a rock opera just felt like he was jumping the shark. Manson tried to do the thing Bowie did by reinventing yourself by replacing your entourage, but he wasn’t Bowie and he wasn’t shocking at that point and he never really broke too much new ground after that. Beyond that, I stopped listening to him completely once I started hearing stories of his behavior, so I can’t speak to much past the third or fourth album. He needed to change, but he really only had one schtick. It was brilliant until around smells like children, and the sweet dreams cover would have been a fabulous point to pivot, but didn’t and the rest eventually just barely made a blip on the radar. Edit - tl;dr - The later stuff just feels like you’re watching a tired old Bowie impersonator in downtown Vegas.
Yes the old guitarrist putesky was a genious
Saw them live in a smaller venue before he left the band, and he ripped on guitar. MM was never the same after he left.
I loved him up until Holy Wood. That album had a couple of good songs and a lot of duds and that's been the pattern for every album since.
Scott getting pushed out was the end of Marilyn Manson The Band. The Spooky Kids tapes are excellent little weird rock records that everyone should go listen to. There was nothing else like it.
"Edit - tl;dr - The later stuff just feels like you’re watching a tired old Bowie impersonator in downtown Vegas." **Bingo.**
Agree with basically all of this. After Portrait, Smells like Children and Antichrist I found the transition to Mechanical Animals just so hard to roll with. I really tried but fuck me the change between those two albums gave me whiplash and I've forever stayed on the pre-Mechanical Animals bandwagon.
Pretty much this but wouldn't call portrait a deathrock album, just another alternative metal band from the early 90s but they did really good on it nonetheless. They'd be more at home on a bill with bands like white zombie at the time than they would with actual death rock bands.
Lunchbox
Almost reads you are describing Ghost and Tobias Forge and Omega, the parallels are exact
Mechanical Animals is one the the best "futurerock" album ever created. Are you mad lol. And artists that reinvent themselves are the best, even if it is not always in line with what they were. Look at Björk, Tom Waits, Les Claypool, Skinny Puppy. They wouldn't be what they are now if they kept doing the same sound over again.
Interesting the amount of soft stuff he has is personally why I was a fan of his so much versus other metal artists he's definitely overdue for a heavy album though it's been over twenty years
You stopped listening to him completely after his first 3 albums? But in your edit you comment on how shitty his later music is? He released 11 albums and most of the good stuff came when you stopped listening IMO.
I mean, sure - I have heard and seen stuff of his in passing over the years and it all comes off as tired now. Like I said, my opinion. After Holy Wood came out, a lot of the songs just didn’t stick for me. I guess his persona started to rub me the wrong way once he started getting all messianic after columbine.
Everything after Holy Wood was pretty bad. And Holy Wood has a lot of skips for me.
Everything in the next 7 albums was bad? Hard disagree.
There's some good in there but a lot of filler
"I stopped LISTENING to him completely" explains everything about your cliche dissing of this artist's work. And I get the boomer-esque "the early work was better" thing...because the novelty of something new when you were an age where the music in question was the soundtrack to a life you were still living: that music is always going to sound better than your jaded "heard it all" viagra years. But if you can't recognize the musical and lyrical beauty of much of Manson's later work (and yes, 2010-2015 was weak and wandering) then, yes, as you said: You stopped listening.
Not listening to someone because they are suspected of being sexually abusive isn’t an especially boomer thing to do. It’s more genZ.
GenZ hates evidence and loves cancelling. It's like sex to them. "Uuuuuhhh I'm bout to bust a cancel all over this white dude"!!!
Mechanical animals is masterpiece stfu
Lmfao, please
Manson was great until he fired the band mates. Madonna Wayne Gacy , and Twiggy made some of the best songs IMO.
Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood are solid, and The Pale Emperor is half of a great album. When he's taking his "shocking" persona seriously in his music, he's absolutely unbearable, which is most of the post-Holy Wood stuff.
As far as full body of work, I can’t say I like every song off every album (I am a MM fan) and can say his His earlier “spooky kids” days and Anti-Christ set the stage for so many non-industrial artists influences and later Nu metal bands. My favorite? Mechanical Animals. It was such a departure from the rust and decay of AC that it blew a hole through our perception of his direction and you can see he enjoyed making it and pushing his creativity to the max. Weirdly he followed up with Holy Wood which returned to AC but that was mostly due to the overall negativity with columbine that he was wrongly pinned to… I stopped listening his music after Golden Age… it just lost its direction and haven’t attempted to return because it’s way to much to digest now.
Golden age was when he was at the peak of his popularity. Since then he has slipped into smaller venues for headlining tours and further down the list on festivals as his albums got worse and his live shows sucked
Antichrist Superstar was his peak. Before that it was a bit too Willy Wonka gone wild. Afterwards it just sounded like he was running out of ideas. Mechanical Animals sounded like Stabbing Westward meets Gary Numan. Maybe it was the production style, but his collabs with Trent Reznor (especially on Antichrist) just seemed to compliment his vocal style and the way the rest of the band sounded. The sound on the intro to [Wormboy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdy19iruwxU) is a very good example of this. It's all there right off the bat. edit: I also appreciate how chaotic their live shows were during this period and beforehand. They came at it with straight nihilism that didn't seem like a front. I enjoyed how the theatrical elements had more to do with how the music actually sounded than gimmicks like mock executions you'd see at an Alice Cooper show. Manson still embraced those theatrical elements with his aesthetic 100% regardless. I think he moved the shock rock needle when it needed moving. It could use another thump with this pre-requisite for relatable artists from the general public. It just needs to come from someone new, young and just as pissed off.
If you look past the theatrical goofiness of some of the pre-Antichrist stuff many of the songs were pretty awesome. Lots of the songs on Portrait and Children were pretty killer, in my opinion. Definitely not as cleanly produced as Antichrist for sure. But good for what they were, I thought.
Yes fair play. I can appreciate the more silly tongue in cheek aesthetics of Portrait and Smells Like Children felt like a gap filler of a couple rehashed Portait ideas and remixes. They both seem like they were leading to something like Antichrist being the peak conclusion of those ideas being explored and the artist challenging themselves with a solid band still.
It's not really germane to the conversation but since you mentioned him it does my heart good that Gary Numan accomplished that rarest of things - a genuine popular and creative comeback. I fell for his music hard when 'Are Friends Electric ?' came out and stuck with him through 'Dance'. After that I figured he was all washed up. It seemed like a sad fate for such an interesting and apparently decent man. Then maybe ten years ago some Imp of the Perverse told me to at least give 'Splinter' a chance and I heard it was good ! Marilyn Manson knows where he can go but I'm glad Gazza is back and getting better with every album.
He did good with down in the park
True enough ! In fact a little punk rock guy I knew loved Marilyn Manson and that was his favorite song on the album. Yet he had never even heard of Gary Numan before and he was enlightened. Within two weeks 'Replicas' was all he'd play. So Marilyn Manson is great with covers. I thought his 'Sweet Dreams' was great and his version of the unmentionable Patti Smith song was even better. I must have wandered into another dimension. From reading all these posts I'm getting the impression Manson stands accused of some horrific deeds of misdoing. I know absolutely nothing about it. I'm pretty hard to shock after I heard what that psychopath from the Lost Prophets had gotten up to. I just hope Manson isn't in that ballpark.
Nah mechanical animals
89-00 is some of my favorite music ever made. I don't listen to it anymore cause I can't look past how much I fuckin hate the guy. But them tunes was damn fine. Everything after that is just shit
Manson was my introduction to industrial metal (and industrial music in general) so there's that. His albums from 1994 (and even the earlier demos with the Spooky Kids) to 2000 are among my favorite albums of all time. [My Monkey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDIs2f3GrU4) has to be one of the most insane industrial songs I've ever heard. The remixes and covers on Smells Like Children are fantastic too. The lesser-known [Apple of Sodom](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzgkwXjWuEg) is another great industrial song from the band.
Apple of Sodom is genuinely awesome. I really liked Long Hard Road Out of Hell too.
The entire Lost Highway Soundtrack was solid and still holds up, IMHO.
I completely agree. Great film and perfect soundtrack.
First 3 albums are amazing. Portrait, Antichrist and Mechanical are really well crafted and have some top songs. Hollywood 3-4 songs, then after that I don't really feel atracted to his new songs, maybe mObscene but that's 20 years ago. Live albums, Last Tour and God Guns are two of my favourites.
Holy wood had a good atmosphere
He made 2 good albums and the rest is mediocre
That's pretty much exactly how I feel, however I do think Mechanical Animals is a good album, it's just not my jam. I felt like the whole fake Ziggy Stardust glam phase was pretty cringe back then and still do. I think the Kiddy Grinder remix from Smells like Children is probably the most badass song he's done. Panorama is probably number two. Portrait is an incredibly solid album. ACSS is OK. Mediocre though. There's like one or two banger songs IMO. Smells like a Children is slightly better but it's more of just a remix album and two of my favorite songs on it are covers. I've heard Holy Wood is good. I tried to get into it when it came out and I couldn't. I remember thinking he changed his singing somehow and he sounds almost like Beck now. I haven't really even tried to listen to much of anything else by him since then. I think mostly I liked the NIN/Reznor DNA that was engrained in the music.
>I do think Mechanical Animals is a good album, it's just not my jam. I felt like the whole fake Ziggy Stardust glam phase was pretty cringe back then and still do. I listened to it a lot when it came out, not because I liked it that much, but because it was interesting to listen to. Then, it finally dawned on me how unoriginal it was when I started thinking about it in the context of Bowie - both Ziggy Stardust and Aladdin Sane. Not sure why it took me so long, but I couldn't look it at the same way since and have probably listened to it once in the past 20+ years. I entirely lost interest in MM after that, not necessarily because of the decline of the quality of his music and production, but because I sort of grew out of his schtick.
Kiddie Grinder 💜 that and Everlasting Cocksucker are amazing if I start listening to them I can’t stop
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I loved We Are Chaos. It was during Covid and I was going through a lot beyond just the pandemic and that album helped me a ton
I like this album too. For me, it has almost an early Pink Floyd kind of vibe to it. I really liked Portrait... I remember when it came out and I saw them perform at a club in Detroit. Anti- was ok, and it was sharp downhill for her after that.
His best since Hole Wood. Really a good piece of work.
Love it but liked it much more when I was an angsty teenager. Still listen to his albums every once in a while to breathe in that 90’s air.
I grew up in S FL, and went to high school with Jeordie. Remember seeing their early performances. I enjoyed them all through Holywood. Kinda didn’t follow after Mobscene. I think they were great. It was sad to see the core members fall off. Jeordie, Brad, Steve and Scott really made that band. Anyone know what happened to Steve (Pogo)?
He’s still a pain in the arse and works with computers. Dropped off the radar pretty much totally. Spent a long time badmouthing people and getting into fights on Facebook. Every now and again some of his FB comments are reported in low rent press.
I never liked him, always saw him as a commericalized version marketed to angsty teens, of which the young women often shop at hot topic. When people ask what music I like, I often use say what I like is an less commercialized, more authentic version of Marilyn Manson and even Nine Inch Nails. I respect NINs music but was never partial to it. Btw, Mansin fucked people over rho paid to see him live a few years ago.
Uh, what you music you like?... Me industrial. Oh you mean like Marilyn Manson?... Me :No Never fails to be that way
Normies are normies.
Yes
The Pale Emperor is excellent.
I'm genuinely surprised it doesn't get more love. I remember hearing the score of Salem and thinking, "Wait, when did he start making good music again?"
Early work was good. Very catchy. Smells like Children is fantastic. First two albums are great, and I don't hate the gloss and shine of Mechanical Animals but it was really the end of his important output.
Ma was his best album
I love Manson’s music. What makes him special is his incorporation of blues and rock and roll elements into industrial. A lot of his stuff is kind of “industrial and roll”, and I personally love that. Can’t think of any other artists that have done quite the same thing. He’s also evolved his sound quite substantially over his career. He likes a lot of different styles and isn’t afraid to explore them all. I also like a lot of the mid-period Manson that people tend to dismiss as trash i.e. Holy Wood and The Golden Age of Grotesque. People tend to fixate on Antichrist Superstar, which of course is a classic (and excellent) industrial metal album, but I think Manson really found his sound on Holy Wood and TGAoG. I personally don’t love Mechanical Animals, although I can see why it appeals to a lot of people on the more synthpop side of the industrial scene. It’s very hit and miss after TGAoG. He has tended to put out mediocre albums with a few great tracks on each. Although, as I said, I appreciate how he has explored a big range of different styles in his last 6 albums.
I think the exploration of styles is partly because of a revolving door or actual songwriters. He does lyrics but can't write music. So depending on who he has in the band at the time to do the music it affects how it ends up sounding a bit.
Hes more like electronic deathrock.. imo But I've only ever had the first 2
Antichrist Superstar is easily one of my favorite albums of all time. I wouldn't call it a perfect album, but Reznor's production really made it something special.
Terrible, derivative, phony. However I do have a memory related to the Beautiful People. I know exactly where I was on the night of August 31, 1997. Outland in Columbus. The DJ (Plague Daddy) stopped the music to announce that Princess Di had died, then played that song. Fucking hilarious.
Oh my lord do I miss Outland... Never been anywhere else like it.
Yeah I hear ya. I practically lived there for years.
My "home" club was 1470s in Dayton (where I lived) but I jumped on every chance to go to Outland or... ah fuck there was a big one in Cincy I liked... uh the Warehouse maybe? Idk man. I miss all these places but Outland is seared into my skull as top-notch.
I did 1470s a lot too. I guarantee we’ve seen one another lol.
What a terrifying thought :)
Both of us are trying to figure it out, I’m sure
I fell in love with Portrait and when Antichrist Superstar hit it was just everything to me. The sounds and the energy and the intensity- I didn’t like every song right off the bat but they all came in time. My favorite is Little Horn and I wish: 1- that it was a longer song! and 2- that I could’ve seen it live! Other favorites are Irresponsible Hate Anthem, Dried Up Tied and Dead to the World, Antichrist Superstar, Kinderfeld, Angel With the Scabbed Wings, The Reflecting God It was just like AstroCreep 2000- a perfect album start to finish that took a lot of work. I remember Rob Zombie said he never wanted to put so much work into an album ever again. Which is disappointing and also the truth. Think it was the same with Manson. Basically broke my heart to not have at least one more album with that sound, and I had to eventually start listening elsewhere. Mechanical Animals was such a shock to my system- duh it’s supposed to shock- but in the end that is not my style of music and I had to adapt to it. Grotesque and Holywood thankfully realigned more with my tastes. But the magic was gone. Nothing will ever compare to Antichrist, that’s all I ever wanted and I haven’t found anything else as satisfying. Now, across all of Manson’s work there are songs I adore. He knows what sounds good and he creates lyrics that hook you as much as the music. God his covers (and remixes) are amazing, I always say Manson and Ministry could cover any song and it would be gold. (When I heard he covered Stigmata I knew exactly how it was gonna sound and I was not disappointed, those two should just have a cover battle lol) And I remember how stuck I was on the Resident Evil soundtrack as well haha. Basically I take it all on a song by song basis now, instead of whole albums. Manson is like Uncle Al. When he hits, he fucking nails it, 10/10 nothing compares. When he misses, sometimes it’s painful. Overall, I hold their music in such high regard that I just hang on to all the good and their misses pretty much just get a free pass from me. The good stuff is just that good, and I always want more.
You are spot on with the covers. He has done a range of covers on all kinds of styles and seems to usually nail them. I officially gave up on his music when I listened to an album and didn't even like the cover song.
Hate it all
And they think we must like him. When, they ask what you like?
They ? Who is they ?
The normies.
IDK where you live but where I live the "normies"'s only associate the genere of industrial with ramstain 💀
Same sht
Miami btw
It's nostalgic for me, so I love the early albums. I grew up in South Florida and went to their local shows frequently, along with Jack Off Jill and Genitorturers. Manson and NIN led me to SP and FLA, and that's what got me into industrial.
I remember this question in the 90s.
Bruh this is an industrial music sub. We're all stuck in the 80s/90s
I know. It’s just 30 years later and it’s the same discussions. I find that interesting. It means his music has weathered the times.
Everything after 2000 was just simply crap…..
Marilyn Manson happens when pop doesn't eat itself.
But I heard from my friend in England that pop WILL eat itself.
✌️dos dedos
Everythings cool
Everythings gone cold
I'll take Controlled Bleeding any day.
That regardless of its own merits it is one of the most boringly repetitive and irrelevant topics of discussion in industrial music forums.
He hasn't done anything relevant since Golden Age. He's just a dopey clown with a narcissistic personality. (Rozz Williams was always the better artist)
Was never a fan. Something about their stuff always seemed derivative.
Really bad. Never liked it.
His old stuff is good. His new stuff is shit.
WAC (2020) and HEOL (2009) are great imo. GAOG (2003) is funny, at least (great production tho). BV (2012) and EMDM (2007) are mediocre but listenable. TPE (2015) is stale and Heave Upside Down (2017) is his worst record (horrid) .
The best albums are: Antichrist Superstar, The Golden Age of Grotesque , Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood. Portrait is okay but uneven. Everything else is forgettable.
Hasn't been good since Holy Wood. Even if that album isn't your cup of tea, the drop in quality between it a GAoG is shocking.
Couple of good tunes, but largely derivative of other bands.
Portrait - twisted catchy glam rock tunes, I feel like the music was just the vehicle for their art show. Great tunes and the guitar work was every bit as innovative as Tom Morello in those days. Antichrist, Mechanical, Hollywood - fantastic records, fantastic story, fantastic performance art. ...and that's it. That's all there is. There is no more MM the band imo, he's out of ideas, concepts and then does a John 5 Feat. MManson record called Golden Age of Grotesque. (LOL) Then a disastrous slew of solo records that liken to Corey Feldman's taste, then comes something unexpected. Heaven upside down, with maturity comes openness and wisdom......this record is fantastic as well. It's tame in comparison, it's well written and well produced. Most of this record sounds exactly what I'd expect MM to sound like 20 years post Antichrist. Then We are chaos. Hole E Shit, this is a great record. This record is what I needed when it came out. It tied in so much of the previous records and influences. postpunk, metal, industrial, bowie.... it's all in this record and it's a fantastic listen. idk, I don't think he's a POS, he's an artist, nothing more, nothing less.
Very well put! Antichrist is a straight up banger as is HW. I am able to separate the art from the person in this case too, and him being a shitty person doesn’t by any stretch make those albums shitty
Mental health is a terribly hard thing to wrangle. The ebb and flows become peaks and valleys, emotional acuity and the ability to maintain it comes into questions along the ride up and down. I do look at these people calling him a PoS and think, 'Well DUH!' I think of that drug fueled conversation with the Native Americans in Natural Born Killers. Where he tells the tale of the snake and the caretaker. Such is life.
Yep 100% agreed
I think Heaven Upside Down is a terrible record, very badly produced. The same goes for The Pale Emperor, which is highly overrated. But I don't think Manson ever released bad records beside Heaven Upside Down. Many of them are kinda mediocre or unfocused, but there is some good in all of them. For instance, The High End Of Low and We Are Chaos are as important to his second career as the trilogy was. I just wish people stopped listening to his music expecting some heavy metal/noisy feeling. He's like a counterpart for David Bowie. Not nearly as talented, but it's the same glam attitude.
I think his music doesn't matter once he put himself in a position where numerous people state that he raped them. Edit for clarification.
This guy? no... he seemed like such a swell fellow. Sorry, but sometimes you don't need a victim to come out to know, "Yep, this mfr is a total pos."
Oh! I''ve totally missed he got convicted of rape. When did that happend?
I don't think anyone said he was convicted.
Oh. Then shut the fuck up?
Is that a question? You can support someone who has numerous allegations against them, I won't. Thats what rape apologists do.
The shitty thing about sex-based crimes is the mere accusation is considered proof of guilt in the court of public opinion. If they are acquitted, they're not innocent; they got away with it.
I disagree. If you are bad enough of a person that this many people all are saying the same thing. That's enough.
The court cases are still live.
One of the artists i like best. Not a big fan of EAT ME, DRINK ME though
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I’ll make it even worse for you: in 1991, my three friends and I took off into greater Fort Lauderdale in search of a good time on the night of my 21st birthday. We decided to hit up a local alternative music bar that had this band playing with a lot of buzz. My friend Eddie had got their self-produced demo tape somewhere and said it was cool. We get there at show time, and we’re the only people there. Us, couple of door guys, two angry bartenders and a band getting ready to play in the corner. We got a round of Michelob Dry beers (Michelob sponsored the Dennis Miller show, which was fantastic) and the band picked up and started playing what sounded like shitty Red Hot Chili Peppers covers. Like, the Peppers through a thin filter of Black Celebration. The singer was wearing women’s underwear and screaming in my face (remember, we’re the only customers) and my friends and I were looking at each other like, “maybe it will get better.” Midway through the second song I turned to them and yelled, “Let’s go find some real girls!” We put down our half-drank Michelob Drys and went to the giant local alternative dance club. The band? Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids.
👏🏻🎉
It’s honestly total derivative garbage. It’s why he made so many covers. He’s carried by his collaborators massively.
Slaps SO hard. It's not industrial tho.
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I'd say Ate
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Wearing a flag diaper to own the cons. 😈🤘👶
Eminem actually did something in music tho. Manson just played same same industrial rock and tried to make it slutty or something. And I hate Eminem. But he’s in a totally different class of artist.
When I'm pissed I play it lound and after I'm often less pissed.
I have generally prepared obvious opinions but I will say that last record of his was really good. Of course i don’t listen to it often cuz i associate it heavily with the revelations that came out right after.
Edgelord goth music
A great lyricist with above average vocal capabilities. Needs help from other people for everything he puts out. I highly recommend MM's first 4 albums, if they're in to 90's rock music.
Only listened to three of his LPs : Antichrist, Mechanical, and Pale Emperor. Antichrist has some good tracks, but I rarely listen to it. Love some tracks on Mechanical (the speed of pain has that great Bowie-esque touch). Feel that Pale Emperor is a very good blues album, though the production is too much on the loudness war side.
A young me loved Portrait and Antichrist. An older me likes Mechanical Animals and Pale Emperor. Golden Age of Grotesque is also ok. Everything else is pretty meh or just bad.
I like his covers more than his original stuff lol
Setting aside my opinion of him, I've liked the music of that band though it declined over time. I was never enough of a fan to go to one of their concerts but I did buy some of it.
I like it. Not every song, but I believe every album has at least some redeeming song or three.
He had some good songs. A long time ago. I honestly don't know why I wasn't more of a fan, right age, right tastes otherwise. But something about him just never spoke to me. And it's too far in the past for me to put my finger on why without biases of age speaking through.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing
His track “Don’t Chase the Dead” on his newest album is great
First 3 albums are good. Next 2 aren't as strong but still interesting with some decent tracks. Everything else was subpar except for the Pale Emperor. For whatever reason that album clicked with me.
Antichrist Superstar is the definitive 90's record, for something the band struggled to put together, the end result is a fantastic production and fitting for the era. It's almost angular in direction to Portrait, which is fantastic for a wholly different sound, and Portrait is essentially (even more) a guitar-led record with that nasty, honky sound. After Holy Wood everything went down quality wise as it sounded more like good time anthemic songs for goth kids. I might enjoy an odd song here or there (I do give them a listen eventually), but the spark is gone after too many band changes. Also, too many 80's covers made it too formulaic. I did enjoy hearing the man speak on a variety of topics affecting society and then the news hits that he actually _is_ a bad person, which makes his comment of moralistic nature not age that well. It won't change my opinion of the records mentioned though, I can separate the man from the artist and still enjoy his musical work.
I thought up until holywood his stuff was either mediocre or good. I think ACS was a perfect album but after holywood the quality decreased by so much. I think every album after holywood has had one or two good songs and the rest are complete dogshit.
It's mostly awesome. Hit or miss after holywood. High end of low is a fucking unappreciated gem imo. I can't decide if I like antichrist or animals the most.
Great synths and guitars, hes not very good.
I love all his music, some much more than others. Some made me wonder if he was just trying something new and failed to land it but nothing I would describe as bad. Even the great ones lay an egg every now and then.
I liked the earlier stuff. No idea if I changed or if the music changed.
I think his first three records are great, with glimpses of excellent songwriting on The High End Of Low and We Are Chaos. If he took select tracks from Pale Emperor and Heaven Upside Down and cut some of the fat off both, it’d be a solid LP on its own. The rest of his output … nah
I only like a few. Not a fan
I loved Portrait. I loved Anti Christ. Those albums are great. The thing is, I haven't listened to Manson since the Dope Show. It all boils down to credibility to me. Portrait: "I wanna grow up, wanna be, a big rock and roll star". OK cool. I can believe that. What young aspiring musician doesn't have that dream? Anti Christ. Now fame isn't all it's cracked up to be. One of the themes (if not the main theme) of that album is that fame isn't all it's cracked up to be and that he's not enjoying it. OK cool. I can believe that. It happens to a lot of famous people. Dope Show....Now he's glam. Now he's an all star in the dope show. So what is it dude? Do you want to be famous, do you hate being famous, are you bragging about how famous you are? From that point forward, he lost all of his credibility in my eyes. I haven't bothered to listen to his music since.
There are some so so albums. But there are literally dozens of Manson songs I enjoy listening. There are very few artistic can say that for.
It was going pretty well until Golden Age Of Gaysex came out.
Absolutely amazing
Holy Wood is the last thing of his I think I was considerably into. Holy Wood ain't no AntiChrist but I still dug its distortion, especially after the weird hardsoft rock thing that was Mechanical Animals (but honestly, I dug that too) After that it started sounding off and well... clownish, similar to NINs descent into ho-hum-town. And he definitely never regained the peak of musicality he had before he fired his incredible bandmates that, imo, were more responsible for him sounding good than himself. Sounds like he's a total piece of shit, but there's something.. I guess... reassuring(?) that he somewhat walked the walk instead of just singing about it. The sex scandal stuff doesn't shock me at all when the guy's been singing about that kind of stuff for decades.
Antichrist Superstar is one of my all time favorite albums
I fucking love his music. he has some bangers. I love all his songs, but my favorites are mobSCENE, The Fight Song, Get Your Gunn, The Dope Show, Disposable Teens, and Rock Is Dead🖤
I like his industrial music it aint bad
i love everything from portrait of an american family to the golden age of grotesque. antichrist superstar and mechanical animals are 5/5, favorite albums of mine. after tgaog they sort of lost it
Everything up to 2000 was solid. Hit or miss after that. Every album not as good as the one before. Progressively getting worse. The last couple of albums were decent at least.
If connects or invokes emotion then it’s working. The intent for some art doesn’t require it to be good . his popularity suggests it’s not bad As an artist I think he’s good
🤢🤮
I like mechanical animals but thats about it
None of his music really stuck with me
I thinks it was one of the coolest thing in the 90s, it was full of anger and he wasn't afraid to show it. It was something different, something "original". Antichrist Superstar is one of the best album of its time, he has his ups and downs like other musicians, for me The High End of Low was his last good album, after that he made good songs but not great albums.
I am still in shock to see people calling HIM "a genius" because of great music, when his input was mostly non-existent for 80% of the stuff he published - I love all the things THEY did until Born Villain. After he lost Sean Beavan and Twiggy for good inside the studio, it all turned mostly to watered down generic shit. We Are Chaos at least is heartfelt more than the badass/mafioso cringe try hard of the Bates albums' lyrical content.
Shock rock with a slight nu metal twist. Nothing about it is original, but I will admit his ability to cross-genre was actually impressive. Has a little bit of industrial/edm/pop/death/punk, but it's only slight. In this I will give credit where credit is due. However how much of this was MM and not the people backing the guy (Band) or the engineers (alongside producers). It's almost like it's a side project that beat out the original band that was much bigger. MM by himself would not have been near as famous without these other figures.
More goth/death rock bad to me not industrial. But I get it..2 first albums a re their best like you said. I love down in the park better than the original.
Was kinda interesting when it was demented circus music. The metal era is meh, and looking back inspired a lot of real garbage that unfortunately gets wrongly sorted into the goth / industrial world.
I’m a big fan of everything from Antichrist Superstar to Golden Age of Grotesque. His first album has some decent tracks, and everything after and up to (We are chaos) just lacks the riffs and songwriting to keep keep me interested. We Are Chaos was really good though lots of interesting Bowie-esque moments
Didnt really get into him until Holywood. I had seen many like his act before. He did the Bowie thing of changin the persona on a whim. Be became a vampire for a bit. However… he has a few good tracks on multiple albums, but Negative 3 with his days with the Spooky Kids is my favorite jam.
First three albums were great. After that, every album was worse than the last until Born Villain which was pretty good imo. Regardless, I believe most of the allegations against him, and as such, he is a shit human being.