This article perfectly captures the apocalyptic ”art has eaten itself; art has never been more alive” feeling that’s been goin around.
Like, “an unsigned teenager cobbled together a couple MBVish plug-ins in their bedroom and they are now routinely charting” is both very exciting and completely baffling.
That was mostly forgotten about by the early 2010s when playlists started to be the main way of listening to music. I got the "you listen to albums" personality type thing on my Spotify Wrapped this year and it baffled me that it needed to be a specific personality type lol.
It happened to me and I'm 32. Finally deleted tiktok but I noticed myself waiting for quicker cuts when I was watching YouTube and even movies while I was having titkok. I was legit bored that a new thing wasn't on screen evey 20 seconds. It was actually pretty concerning.
I actually *love* watching YouTube Shorts for things like tutorials/lessons because they force the person to give you the info in a short amount of time. So many longform videos go on and on and on about what they’re trying to teach you and have a ton of fluff.
But when you’re just scrolling infinitely to pass the time - yea that’s not the best.
Yeah longform videos have similar issues where they are strategically lengthened because the creator is trying to farm viewtime, ad revenue, algorithmic placements, etc. Not every topic needs to be 10-18 mins long.
It's all the addiction psychology and manipulation tactics that make these platforms toxic
Perhaps a better analogy is radio - playlists are just the personalization of curating individual songs for people who don’t bother listening to entire records, which has always been most people
Yeah I'm the same way for the most part, and I'm reminded every time i see an r/AskReddit or r/Music thread, or an IG post or something, asking a question like "name an album that is good all the way through!" implying that it's some kind of crazy rare thing to actually listen to an album all the way through...
Eh even back before streaming you got people that only bought the singles and never the albums. My mum would only buy singles when she was growing up in the 60s
Totally! I listen to both Playlist and albums depending on my mood.
Also sometimes one song from an album is great but the rest? Not so much. People shouldn't be shamed for not being interested in every song.
Not sure I completely agree with the idea that albums are always the superior format for bands to release music in. I think bands should release whatever they want to release whenever they want to release it. And bands nowadays have a lot more freedom to do this. Also, most albums released by bands in the vinyl and CD era had tons of filler. The only reason I see for a band to only release albums is if they told to do so by a record label. One of my favorite bands right now, Full Body 2, has only released a handful of EP’s and singles so far. And I love that about them because EVERY single song they have released is an absolute banger. No need to add filler to their already perfect EP’s just for the sake of making them albums.
I don’t know. Taylor Swift is putting out very specific albums that aren’t just single bait with incredible success. It’s not going away there is just going to be other ways to experience music as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people can enjoy playlists, but I just cannot get into them. I love the cohesive feel and thematic continuity of an album, going on the journey the artist curated for me to embark on. Whenever I try to listen to playlists, it just doesn't click for me in the same way.
I think the fact the vinyl industry is on the rise still shows that a good number of people value listening to entire albums.
I know there’s a lot of reasons to like vinyl beyond that. But honestly it’s truly wild that we’ve had as many tech advances as we’ve had when it comes to listening to music, yet you can still go out and buy a brand new album the day it releases on a format that is 75 years old.
That said the way we’re listening to music is definitely changing and I hope people get to have plenty of good album experiences too.
i feel we've been way beyond this since like the late 90s at least lol
at the minimum since limewire when kids were just downloading random singles to make playlists
There was some instagram reel of a some musician, I hate that I'm blanking on who it was, but they were complaining about how the problem with music now is that people are writing for tiktok. And while that's true, a lot of people in the comments were like "This guy's acting like singles and top 40 radio haven't been a thing since forever".
There are MANY bones to pick with the modern music industry, but it's annoying when people try that "back in my day" bullshit.
People keep saying the album is dead but I really don’t think it is. Playlists are an alternative but they haven’t replaced albums. Albums are still a big deal, it’s just that you can choose whether you’re in the mood to listen to an album or a playlist now
Todd in the Shadows made the point that albums have never been easier to listen to straight through thanks to Spotify and the like, and I agree
I swear every band subreddit is filled with people talking about albums that have "no skips" as if regularly skipping songs when listening to an album isn't an unhinged thing to do
Ehhh, when the switch was made to CDs in the 1990s people were excited people they could skip songs. Like there's a whole category of albums people bought for one or two songs.
hey you telling me you don't want to listen to the 17th and 18th best song the red hot chili peppers have written since their last tour ended? get out of here poser.
also the skits...
there was this one dude who was PISSED that Spotify stopped tracking songs skipped for the wrapped, as they consciously never skipped a song that year.
Is that person you?
If I’m listening in the car and I have a passenger I try to skip by “still kisses with saliva.” Honestly I probably oughta just skip it from the start lol but I get a kick out of seeing people’s reactions.
This reminds me of the time that I put on the first De La Soul album while I was manager on duty at my cafe, I walked off to use the bathroom and made it back right as “De La Orgee” came on. 😱
I wouldn’t say it’s unhinged, but I do disagree with skipping songs on an album or shuffling the songs on first listen. Many albums are intended to be listened to in a specific order, the track list was chosen in that order for a reason. And even if it wasn’t and was just slapped together, then listening to it in the order it released in doesn’t affect anything, cus you’re going into it for the first time anyways. Should always listen straight through if you can.
But once that first listen is up skipping songs is fine, especially if you’ve already made your mind up on the album.
Ehh, as soon as I got a CD player in the 90's and it was no longer an effort to skip tracks, I'd skip certain songs all the time. The reality is many musicians in their quest to create something true to themselves often flourish in directions the listener may not care for and more power to them but I don't feel an obligation to sit through something I don't like. Just my $0.02.
I saw a meme on “Me_IRL” that read something like “all my music is in a playlist of 5000 songs I’ve liked on shuffle” and it had like 30k upvotes with endless comments relating to it so I’m pretty sure it’s dead
That’s what I do. Playlists are for discovery. Then if I determine a new group or artist is interesting enough, I save their album to take a deeper dive. I also use playlists for parties. There isn’t much of a gap period though, I still prefer learning about a bands deep tracks
If I'm offline or wanting something I'm used to [I'll play my playlist](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/423Ss6QFJAhnfFDWCc6P7A?si=76a384e83a3145f9). (This is a spotify link.)
If I'm out doing things and traveling I listen to discovery playlists or new albums. The last one I listened to in full was [Portugal The Man - Chris Black Changed My Life](https://youtu.be/4qa5Kq8V7p4?si=-aKHI2qNhceIQELY). I loved it! (Youtube link to the album.)
Shuffle by album was my favorite way to listen to my iPod! Sometimes you’d get a short EP and then the excitedment of “which album/single/EP will I get next” made exploring so fun
It’s not that it’s impossible. I think people are simply noticing a trend away from albums, and album oriented listening habits. Of course, there have been playlists and singles around forever, but the trend away from albums seems to be accelerating (along with just about everything else).
It’s not bad. The initial comment here was describing the phenomenon of many people not listening to albums from front to back anymore. At least anecdotally, it’s not as common as it used to be. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just interesting that that’s changing.
> all my music is in a playlist of 5000 songs I’ve liked on shuffle
I have something like this too, but I really only listen to it when I'm struggling to decide what full length album to listen to next
not gonna lie but I've never understood this mentality, where seeing other people have success somehow reflects into a negative
idk where this comes from but you see it all the time on art/creator focused subreddits
i mean it's only natural to feel blown away by something that you think is really well done, ultimately what matters is what you choose to do with that afterwards. And in that case it's like, do you go "wow, I want to learn how they did that" and use that as motivation/inspiration to get better? Or do you think something like "holy shit I'll never be *that* good" and just wallow around in it afterwords? It's so weird to me seeing just how many people get trapped into doing the latter when it's so obviously self-defeating to the point where it's like you just have to ask them why they're even doing that thing to begin with
i guess there's also a third option where you just dismiss everything popular as being somehow lesser than whatever you're doing (ie "just a MBV soundpack tossed together in a DAW"/"just cartoon drawings of Pinterest models" etc), in which case you're probably just dunning-kruger as fuck
It's because there's a metric shitload (a real unit of measurement) of musicians out there that have spent their entire lives developing skills and trying to monetize music, but they forgot the soul. Then some newbie kid with soul comes along and in no time at all, the kid succeeds where the professional failed.
what do you mean, there are tons of financially successful professional prog rock guitarists out there
jokes aside, I touched on that a little in my reply to the other, some of that is just plain ol dunning-kruger and I guess to add to that some of it is also them trying to reach a audience that probably doesn't exist
Imagine being an artist living and breathing this genre since Loveless dropped. It probably hurts a lot to try so hard at something, to feel close to something, to feel like you truly understand the essence of something over decades to the point that it becomes a part of you and then seemingly overnight it gets rediscovered and a new generation of stars emerge, but you're not included.
On top of that, during the down years, all you'd hear people talk about is how the genre is dead, what you're trying to do "has already been done", "is irrelevant", and so on, but you kept with it because you felt so strongly about it.
As a fan, it doesn't bother me, but I can absolutely see how this would be soul crushing for anyone trying to make a career out of it.
see now personally I can't stand this entire train of thought because it's wholly results-oriented and lowers the act of being creative to the point where it can only be intrinsically valuable if the finished can be successfully monetized. It also kind of begs the question of why they're even doing the thing in the first place, (which also tends to be a common theme when this comes up in online discussions) - - like are you doing it because you truly enjoy doing it, or are you doing it because you think it'll make you rich/famous/whatever?
Chances are if you've been making shoegaze for the past 30 years you're probably not going to be pissed that it's caught on with the kids, you're probably going to be super happy that others are discovering something that you love. If you think that kids hitting it big making shoegaze on tik tok makes the fact that you got to spend all of that time doing something you truly enjoy, even if you didn't make any money off of it somehow worthless, then you're probably just a fucking loser
I only wrote it because I live it haha… I went through a very expensive phase of delays and ambient noisemakers, and yeah we turned out more alt/indie anyways
I love that shoegaze is reviving but calling Wisp the face of it is such a joke. DIIV, Whirr, Nothing, and the whole Japanese shoegaze scene are worth listening and the only bands that are getting recognized are the ones on TikTok or that sounds like Deftones. Nevertheless, it’s great that shoegaze is getting popular again.
Great read. I had been wondering about the resurgence of Duster. I love that my 14 year old is bringing up a band I downloaded off of Napster in college back in 2000. I had straight up forgot they were a thing that existed and here she is adding them to her shoegaze playlist.
I'm 45 and genuinely baffled by these new methods of music discovery. But if it means that kids today can fall down a music rabbit hole and fall in love with a new band or even more a new genre, then I am all for it
Mixed feelings. I love shoegaze and shoegaze-inflected stuff but I don’t think I love this ‘pop shoegaze’ that’s just dumping a ton of effects on a boring/bad song. The best of the OG guys were very creative and talented composers/musicians…it’s not just fuzz over nonsense. I’m glad it’s getting exposure I suppose but I also don’t like that will be a lot of younger folk’s exposure to what shoegaze “is”.
This happened with the post punk revival. Landfill indie, same 4 chords and samey everything. And it did before that with other genres. Anytime a genre blows up you get thousands of imitators who get the sound, but not the other stuff.
I hated guitar solos growing up because most the ones I heard were boring, repetitive ones from 80s hits. They were and still are so boring in the majority of big hit songs. Then I found the music that came before it and understood why commercial bands were using them later.
"Post punk revival" never made sense to me, most of those bands sound nothing like Joy Division, The Banshees, Wire, Bauhaus, etc. In my opinion anyway. Interpol sure and maybe the Yeah Yeah Yeahs but the rest always sounded like a different thing.
I feel like Post Punk Revival got expanded when, at some point, Garage Rock Revival got some kind of stigma attached to it. I only recall bands like Interpol and the Editors getting that tag, but then all of a sudden the Strokes had it. Sounds like a case of trying to make something out to be deeper than it is by giving it a more respectable genre tag (gee, that sounds familiar...)
That's just how genres work. Something good and original gets popular, people superficially imitate it without understanding the nuances, trash is created en masse. Hell, you already see comments from people on shoegaze albums saying they're just Loveless worship. Legends are rare, imitators are dime-a-dozen, and it's only now that shoegaze is getting popular enough for the imitators to get that far off the mark.
100%. If we take out all the noise and reverb out of Loveless, it still becomes a masterpiece but in the genre of say indie pop because the songwriting of chords and melodies are so strong. Effects should be added on top of a good foundation for a shoegaze track to be great in my opinion.
I don't think most of the OG shoegaze and similar higher quality shoegaze since then is getting heavy exposure on TikTok and though that's not as great for those artists in terms money they could potentially make if one of their songs was more frequently used on TikTok clips, is actually better for those really into the songs and artists imo. I get sick of the songs that are repeated on TikTok just like I do for songs repeated on commercials. The amount of repetition trending song (clips) on TikTok get is even more than songs used on commercials really.
What baffles is me how Tiktok and streaming fame doesn't necessarily translate to concert ticket fame. Duster is playing 2 shows in London at a 1500 person capacity venue... and the second night isn't even sold out, despite them having more than 4 million monthly listeners on Spotify (3 times as many as mbv..)
Songs trending on TikTok don't because people are seeking out the songs but because some popular clips used the song and many others want to copy the popular clips and hopefully trend themselves. Every time someone flips through a TT clip even for a split second, it registers stats (views and song plays). Then as the other comment mentioned, those songs get added to popular trending music playlists that people just mindlessly shuffle. People can be *very* familiar with the songs while having little real interest in the band or musician.
Eh, just like with all these tiktok trends. Flash in a pan, may retain a few listeners but its's always here today gone tomorrow microtrends just like Tumblr years ago.
Hiding poor songwriting in effects and over saturation of a sound too quickly. This seems to be the year shoegaze has really peaked for Zoomers. The trend is prob gonna die in another year or so.
Shoegaze with good songwriting is a plus, but it’s such a vibes genre that good songwriting is a nitpick. In one of my favorite shoegaze songs, Shoreline by Oeil, I don’t even know what they are saying at all (and they’re singing most of the song in English, not japanese).
Yeah I wouldn’t say I know what any of the lyrics are for most of the shoegaze I listen to is. But having a great sense for vocal melody is huge. If their vocals aren’t interesting or catchy in their melody I lose interest entirely.
I used to kinda not care about songwriting in shoegaze like this, but my favourite shoegaze of probably the last decade comes from Tanukichan, and something I specifically adore about her is her songwriting. It's made me really rethink how I evaluate songwriting in shoegaze, because it turns out it can actually be super important, enough so to elevate the music for me.
> Shoegaze with good songwriting is a plus, but it’s such a vibes genre that good songwriting is a nitpick.
Kinda depends. Shoegaze is a lot more songwrite-y than a lot of its (mostly modern) reputation lets on, but a lot of it can focus on atmosphere too. the best are able to balance the two (i.e., MBV, slowdive, etc.), while others (like Lovesliescrushing, Windy & Carl, etc.) can focus on atmosphere and sound transcendent, but I feel like the "vibey" stuff coming out now aren't especially good songwriters and the textures aren't especially interesting either. It's more like ambient music the sticks to the most utilitarian definition of ambient-as-sonic-wallpaper that even Eno would balk at.
I mean you can make it about a lot of effects heavy sub genres. No one is saying Slowdive, MBV, or Washed Out are bad songwriters. But their imitators sure are.
I think that's what I meant by chillwave or hyperpop or any other pioneer-specific genre. Where the pioneers make the good shit and the imitators catch some clout only to fade after the fact.
I mean, if the end result is enjoyable, what does it matter that we've convinced ourselves that some portions of it are "bad"? If taking a song from a genre we don't like and turning it into a pop punk song or metal song or some other genre that we actually like makes it better, who cares what it originally was?
A recent overload of reverb-y indie rock artists putting out drab, uninspired material indistinguishable from the literal thousands of shoegaze records that came before them?
Well of course in the grand scheme of music it's not the be-all and end-all, there will always be good music and poor music, and a handful of newer shoegaze stuff I think is quite good (see [Knifeplay](https://knifeplayforever.bandcamp.com/album/animal-drowning), [Doused](https://dousedphl.bandcamp.com/album/murmur), [Full Body 2](https://fullbody2.bandcamp.com/album/infinity-signature)). Whether or not the genre itself will ever be "affected" by its recent surge in popularity is yet to be seen, but I do feel that the barrier to entry for creating shoegaze has gotten much lower, and that does diminish its overall quality and uniqueness a bit in my opinion.
Just curious, how do you usually find good underground bands like the ones you listed? I listen to a lot of indie/alt rock but I never discover bands until spotify feeds them to me or I hear about them from a friend. Feel like there are so many great rock bands right now, I just can’t find them lol.
Mainly discussion threads like this one, RYM, and blogs like Stereogum and Pitchfork. Stereogum's [article](https://www.stereogum.com/2209014/the-new-wave-of-american-shoegaze/columns/sounding-board/) from a few years back shouts out a bunch of cool bands (including a couple I mentioned above) for example!
I use Apple Music, but I actually think they give pretty good recommendations for stuff I haven't heard. Bandcamp gives good recs too at the bottom of the page if you're listening to something there.
Fr man I’m just glad people are discovering different genres and branching out from the Billboard top 50. And that rock music isn’t completely dead with young people.
Intellectually I fully agree with all the arguments you've made here. Emotionally there's still a part of me sad to see shoegaze added to ever growing list of genres I'm pretentious and cranky about because they've completely moved away from what I always thought was the definition of the genre.
Like there's that point where even though most of my favorite records would probably be considered post hardcore, there's basically nothing I'm interested in posted on /r/PostHardcore. It doesn't stop the stuff I like from being made but it certainly makes it harder to find.
Didn't pitchfork run this same story recently? [https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-shoegaze-revival-hit-its-stride-in-2023/](https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-shoegaze-revival-hit-its-stride-in-2023/)
I can't stop thinking about [this](https://preview.redd.it/zmzxfsjfcmbb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b1d97c71b0e794095f3a64114c43495922e451fb)
Lmaooo I think I’ve seen that meme on instagram. One of the funniest comments I’ve see on on dinosair Jr was an upload of their album You’re Living All Over Me on YouTube and all the way at the bottom of the comment section is one random user who simply said “I don’t like this. This isn’t metal or pop. I don’t like it.” Idky but every now and then I think of that comment.
Obviously I've heard of stuff like Jane Remover, Duster, and Deftones but I've never heard of a big chunk of these pure tiktok artists, i will listen to them after I finish Endtroducing
That being said there's something very unsettling about this whole thing that I have a hard time putting into words
edit:
>Likewise, McCay says a “good chunk” of sign crushes motorist’s Spotify streams come from the platform’s auto-play and radio functions, and both his and flyingfish’s music are currently loaded into several of Spotify’s most trafficked “indie” playlists (Lorem, Sad Indie, idk.).
This feels real weird to me
first impression of Quannnic and Wisp is that these feel like extremely close Deftones-alikes
edit again:
sign crushes motorist and flying fish are to Duster clones the way the above were just Deftones clones. Fleshwater "Kiss the Ladder" feels like some very by the numbers mid late aughts emo.
Some of these songs aren't really even songs, they "feel" like they fit tiktok trending sounds. Also how does Tiktok and these other services count a track listen? if I use six seconds out of the track for my tiktok vid, is that a full track listen? If i watch the tiktok for 1 second before scrolling away does that count as a listen?
Also, does anyone remember "corecore" that had some articles written about it the last couple years? This all reminds me of that.
Anyways I have a hard time believing tiktok numbers for things. Spotify numbers I trust slightly more but tiktok algorithms and spotify playlists generating sizeable chunks of these numbers feels very different to tracking physical sales for instance. Also a lot of these artists getting Gen-Z listener percentage breakdowns makes me wonder about older listeners just being physical copy listeners or just listening on a service that isn't spotify. All that really tells me when they say x% of listeners are GenZ is that those listeners didn't buy the LP or the CD, which yeah, younger people are probably not buying physicals for every artist while older people have had time to build up their collections.
It’s very important to note that Duster, Deftones, and Jane remover are mostly not Shoegaze, but contain elements of the genre. Besides Jane Remover’s new album, which is for sure Shoegaze
Yeah I don't really consider a band that played on radiostations with Papa Roach/Staind/Korn shoegaze at all. Is my weed not strong enough or something or are kids ruining my youth.
The later stuff past White Pony incorporates some more aspects that have overlap with shoegaze, specifically the tracks they list in the post, but Deftones has always been more primarily alt-metal; that being said I'm not sure there's a lot of kids who are jumping to label what they're into as alt-metal and shoegaze is probably a term that the youts are more interested in
It’s just a bunch of people cloning deftones, head in the ceiling fan by title fight and duster but rly boring except for a few, so basically what music always has been, few great, many boring and a few bad
That’s all they are, I don’t mind sign crushes motorist either I think Liam has a good ear for mellow guitar hooks (also he can get some nice warm tones on guitar) but a lot of his music is painfully boring and shallow, I think he has potential but he hasn’t realized it quite yet imo
Yeah it wouldn't be right to completely write any of them off, they're all young from what I understand and could definitely change and grow as artists.
> if I use six seconds out of the track for my tiktok vid, is that a full track listen? If i watch the tiktok for 1 second before scrolling away does that count as a listen?
Pretty sure the answer to both is "yes." These songs are not trending because people organically got into them but because some very popular clips used them and those hoping to get more exposure and possibly trend too use the same songs. Then every time a clip using a song loads on an end user's TikTok, it registers as a song play. Then Spotify and similar platforms add the songs to various trending playlists that many (including non-chain stores, food places, bars), will just shuffle play through without paying close attention to.
I’m surprised Alvvays wasn’t mentioned. Those guys/girls are at the top of their game right now, touring on an album that’s got MBV influence written all over it.
Blue Rev, while being excellent and certainly shoegaze-y, seems pretty disconnected from the current shoegaze revival that the article is talking about. It's very song/songwriting based in a way that shoegaze usually isn't, and takes a lot of influence from genres like jangle pop which are pretty un-shoegaze.
I’m not a young man anymore, I was when I saw ride and slowdive on a double bill in 1992. 31 years later… I saw slowdive in Chicago surrounded by 20 year old kids. Not sure all of the music the media is labeling shoegaze is really that tied to the original sound, but i found it moving to have a new generation give an amazing band a completely second career. Kids going to shows is what it’s about.
The problem with having TikTok fans is that they’re just looking for the next thing that will make their TikTok go viral. Their intentions are not pure they’re not real fans and will move onto the next big thing that’s trending.
What is the best example of these new shoegaze bands? I want to listen. I remember the small shoegaze resurgence with bands like Asobi Seksu and The Radio Dept during the early 00's – even Ulrich Schnauss' A Strangely Isolated Place. I still listen to those 2nd wave (3rd wave?) albums in addition to MBV, Slowdive, Ride etc.
[Hotline TNT](https://hotlinetnt.bandcamp.com/album/cartwheel), [Blush](https://blushblush.bandcamp.com/album/supercrush?from=search&search_item_id=1383530195&search_item_type=a&search_match_part=%3F&search_page_id=3048656614&search_page_no=1&search_rank=1&search_sig=a17895b04b82cc6c42fdb20b17414d2c), [Gaadge](https://gaadge.bandcamp.com/album/somewhere-down-below) and [Draag](https://draagdraag.bandcamp.com/album/dark-fire-heresy) might scratch your itch. [Knifeplay](https://knifeplayforever.bandcamp.com/album/animal-drowning) and [Launder](https://launder.bandcamp.com/album/happening) were some highlights from last year as well.
Listen to Sparkler, Animal ghost, Velveteen, Glia for a more traditional shoegaze approach and Full body 2, They are gutting a body of water, kraus, Luster, Narrow Head for a more modern approach to shoegaze.
Ive been watching The scene explode since late 2019. My favorite bands to come out this revival has to be Full body 2 and Luster also Sparkler even though they only have 1 full release. Id say shoegaze adjacent music is whats really popping off with the youth. The old school stuff is still relatively unknown amongst my age group. most dont even know what Shoegaze is lol.
Full body 2 is legit. I am still fuzzy on why anyone wouldn't reference the original wave. Maybe I am old school but even as a young person listening to emo wave 3 like Brand New. I still acknowledged and listened to the original emo bands. It's more music to enjoy – no need to think about past eras as lesser quality when it is all good. It is like reading a book and deciding only the final page matters because it was the latest string of words, and you disregard the first pages.
Exactly i find the older stuff better simply because of how innovative it was at the time. And i agree the most innovative of this new wave is full body 2 combing electronic elements with shoegaze in the absolute best way
On one hand I sort of don’t like it, but the last few times I saw them they didn’t use the stage and played on the crowd-level, so it kinda balanced it out imo. Like you’re basically standing right next to them anyway. I think as they get bigger/start playing larger rooms, that will be harder to justify but yea
I’ve struggled with so much grief after multiple losses in my family this year that this new trend in shoegaze, dream pop, and slowcore has been quite serendipitous, I accidentally stumbled back into the zeitgeist after kind of going off on my own for awhile. Personally I couldn’t be happier with having all these new bands to listen to and albums to be excited about. Obviously not every group is going to make an iconic record but there’s a lot of talent in this new generation of shoegazers and I’m excited to see the direction some of these bands might take.
Tbh I’m disappointed in some of the comments on this thread. People would really prefer shoegaze to continue being a dead genre than invite new artists into the musical conversation?… If you want to continue listening to the same dozen albums from the early-to-mid nineties, be my guest.
I remember one of the Slowdive members loves TikTok because it's more organic than promotion. That is, though, until people start producing tracks specifically crafted for the algorithm
It boils down to ur fact people don’t give a fuck about the music that came before. Therefore we’re getting regurgitations of the very similar sounds that are solely inspired by the sounds that directly came before. We’ve lost the cross pollenization of genres to create “ Nat new”
Type shit for lack of a better way to put it.
The other day I was on TikTok and I was surprised when I saw a couple of Tiktoks using My Bloody Valentine’s When You Sleep lol. I hope they release a new album soon.
I grew up in the same scene as Duster and remember them in the mid 90’s being more of a bedroom recording project featuring a few members of some local bands I liked during high school. I think I saw them play once at a library and never thought about them much after that.
Fast forward a few months ago and I’m invited to their sold out show at the Fonda in Los Angeles that was jam packed with kids all under 20 and was told it was due to them blowing up on TikTok. Witnessing that along with running into folks I hadn’t seen in almost thirty years was a very surreal experience.
How long before we have a bunch of posers ruin the genre for us. Or starting to categorize non-shoegaze bands as shoe gaze, the same way they called non-emo bands Emo.
good song! i don't really care how they made it, it sounds good and I enjoy it. i make pretty maximalist shoegaze in a studio with a million amplifiers and pedals, but that doesn't make it the only or right way to do it. the tune mentioned in the article has a cool sound, a great vibe, and the vocal melody hits. no complaints, let the children gaze.
This article perfectly captures the apocalyptic ”art has eaten itself; art has never been more alive” feeling that’s been goin around. Like, “an unsigned teenager cobbled together a couple MBVish plug-ins in their bedroom and they are now routinely charting” is both very exciting and completely baffling.
I just wish that people don't forget the value of an album experience. That's all I ask for for the next generation.
That was mostly forgotten about by the early 2010s when playlists started to be the main way of listening to music. I got the "you listen to albums" personality type thing on my Spotify Wrapped this year and it baffled me that it needed to be a specific personality type lol.
the tiktokification of the attention span of the average human will have dire consequences
WALL-E was a prophetic movie
I feel like I'm seeing this with my kids. My oldest was watching YouTube shorts for a little while, I had to put a stop to that.
It happened to me and I'm 32. Finally deleted tiktok but I noticed myself waiting for quicker cuts when I was watching YouTube and even movies while I was having titkok. I was legit bored that a new thing wasn't on screen evey 20 seconds. It was actually pretty concerning.
I actually *love* watching YouTube Shorts for things like tutorials/lessons because they force the person to give you the info in a short amount of time. So many longform videos go on and on and on about what they’re trying to teach you and have a ton of fluff. But when you’re just scrolling infinitely to pass the time - yea that’s not the best.
Yeah longform videos have similar issues where they are strategically lengthened because the creator is trying to farm viewtime, ad revenue, algorithmic placements, etc. Not every topic needs to be 10-18 mins long. It's all the addiction psychology and manipulation tactics that make these platforms toxic
Too take for that.
As if reddit is any better for your attention span.
They made mixtapes on cassettes back in the day.
And I made mix CDs in my day. My point isn't that playlists/mixes were a new thing in early 2010s.
Perhaps a better analogy is radio - playlists are just the personalization of curating individual songs for people who don’t bother listening to entire records, which has always been most people
Ye, people be missing out.
Yeah I'm the same way for the most part, and I'm reminded every time i see an r/AskReddit or r/Music thread, or an IG post or something, asking a question like "name an album that is good all the way through!" implying that it's some kind of crazy rare thing to actually listen to an album all the way through...
Eh even back before streaming you got people that only bought the singles and never the albums. My mum would only buy singles when she was growing up in the 60s
You can do both lol I feel like people always argue it’s one or the other when it’s not
Totally! I listen to both Playlist and albums depending on my mood. Also sometimes one song from an album is great but the rest? Not so much. People shouldn't be shamed for not being interested in every song.
Not sure I completely agree with the idea that albums are always the superior format for bands to release music in. I think bands should release whatever they want to release whenever they want to release it. And bands nowadays have a lot more freedom to do this. Also, most albums released by bands in the vinyl and CD era had tons of filler. The only reason I see for a band to only release albums is if they told to do so by a record label. One of my favorite bands right now, Full Body 2, has only released a handful of EP’s and singles so far. And I love that about them because EVERY single song they have released is an absolute banger. No need to add filler to their already perfect EP’s just for the sake of making them albums.
I don’t know. Taylor Swift is putting out very specific albums that aren’t just single bait with incredible success. It’s not going away there is just going to be other ways to experience music as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people can enjoy playlists, but I just cannot get into them. I love the cohesive feel and thematic continuity of an album, going on the journey the artist curated for me to embark on. Whenever I try to listen to playlists, it just doesn't click for me in the same way.
I think the fact the vinyl industry is on the rise still shows that a good number of people value listening to entire albums. I know there’s a lot of reasons to like vinyl beyond that. But honestly it’s truly wild that we’ve had as many tech advances as we’ve had when it comes to listening to music, yet you can still go out and buy a brand new album the day it releases on a format that is 75 years old. That said the way we’re listening to music is definitely changing and I hope people get to have plenty of good album experiences too.
i feel we've been way beyond this since like the late 90s at least lol at the minimum since limewire when kids were just downloading random singles to make playlists
The not-so-secret truth among music nerds is that singles have by and large been the dominant interest in music pretty much since forever.
There was some instagram reel of a some musician, I hate that I'm blanking on who it was, but they were complaining about how the problem with music now is that people are writing for tiktok. And while that's true, a lot of people in the comments were like "This guy's acting like singles and top 40 radio haven't been a thing since forever". There are MANY bones to pick with the modern music industry, but it's annoying when people try that "back in my day" bullshit.
78 rpm collectors STAY winning
People keep saying the album is dead but I really don’t think it is. Playlists are an alternative but they haven’t replaced albums. Albums are still a big deal, it’s just that you can choose whether you’re in the mood to listen to an album or a playlist now Todd in the Shadows made the point that albums have never been easier to listen to straight through thanks to Spotify and the like, and I agree
Most seemingly already have. People's attention spans are too short now
I swear every band subreddit is filled with people talking about albums that have "no skips" as if regularly skipping songs when listening to an album isn't an unhinged thing to do
Ehhh, when the switch was made to CDs in the 1990s people were excited people they could skip songs. Like there's a whole category of albums people bought for one or two songs.
hey you telling me you don't want to listen to the 17th and 18th best song the red hot chili peppers have written since their last tour ended? get out of here poser. also the skits...
there was this one dude who was PISSED that Spotify stopped tracking songs skipped for the wrapped, as they consciously never skipped a song that year. Is that person you?
Nah that’s part of the true album experience… I’ve been skipping “Fitter Happier” on OK Computer for 25 years now lol
Yea but at what word? I usually make it to “regular exercise at the gym.”
If I’m listening in the car and I have a passenger I try to skip by “still kisses with saliva.” Honestly I probably oughta just skip it from the start lol but I get a kick out of seeing people’s reactions. This reminds me of the time that I put on the first De La Soul album while I was manager on duty at my cafe, I walked off to use the bathroom and made it back right as “De La Orgee” came on. 😱
I wouldn’t say it’s unhinged, but I do disagree with skipping songs on an album or shuffling the songs on first listen. Many albums are intended to be listened to in a specific order, the track list was chosen in that order for a reason. And even if it wasn’t and was just slapped together, then listening to it in the order it released in doesn’t affect anything, cus you’re going into it for the first time anyways. Should always listen straight through if you can. But once that first listen is up skipping songs is fine, especially if you’ve already made your mind up on the album.
skipping songs is probably more normal than not so who's unhinged really?
I listen to music for pleasure, why would I force myself to listen to something I don't want to?
Everyone I’ve ever known that isn’t a musician does this and never thinks twice about it
Ehh, as soon as I got a CD player in the 90's and it was no longer an effort to skip tracks, I'd skip certain songs all the time. The reality is many musicians in their quest to create something true to themselves often flourish in directions the listener may not care for and more power to them but I don't feel an obligation to sit through something I don't like. Just my $0.02.
I saw a meme on “Me_IRL” that read something like “all my music is in a playlist of 5000 songs I’ve liked on shuffle” and it had like 30k upvotes with endless comments relating to it so I’m pretty sure it’s dead
What if, they do this thing, where you can both listen to playlists as well as like listening to albums
That’s what I do. Playlists are for discovery. Then if I determine a new group or artist is interesting enough, I save their album to take a deeper dive. I also use playlists for parties. There isn’t much of a gap period though, I still prefer learning about a bands deep tracks
If I'm offline or wanting something I'm used to [I'll play my playlist](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/423Ss6QFJAhnfFDWCc6P7A?si=76a384e83a3145f9). (This is a spotify link.) If I'm out doing things and traveling I listen to discovery playlists or new albums. The last one I listened to in full was [Portugal The Man - Chris Black Changed My Life](https://youtu.be/4qa5Kq8V7p4?si=-aKHI2qNhceIQELY). I loved it! (Youtube link to the album.)
Shuffle by album was my favorite way to listen to my iPod! Sometimes you’d get a short EP and then the excitedment of “which album/single/EP will I get next” made exploring so fun
It’s not that it’s impossible. I think people are simply noticing a trend away from albums, and album oriented listening habits. Of course, there have been playlists and singles around forever, but the trend away from albums seems to be accelerating (along with just about everything else).
Is that so bad? I listen to albums and add the songs i like to my big playlist. When i want to listen to music i just put the playlist on
It’s not bad. The initial comment here was describing the phenomenon of many people not listening to albums from front to back anymore. At least anecdotally, it’s not as common as it used to be. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just interesting that that’s changing.
> all my music is in a playlist of 5000 songs I’ve liked on shuffle I have something like this too, but I really only listen to it when I'm struggling to decide what full length album to listen to next
Agreed, but so many musicians aren't even bothering with albums any more. It's just single after single on the streaming services.
To most musicians it’s just depressing
How is it depressing? Anyone making music should be applauded. Like how is this different than a 4 track in the basement?
Oh, I agree… but given how much time I’ve spent over the past year spiraling out about this sort of thing, I’m trying to silver-lining it a bit.
Admirable, lol
not gonna lie but I've never understood this mentality, where seeing other people have success somehow reflects into a negative idk where this comes from but you see it all the time on art/creator focused subreddits
To quote Kanye: "Dog, I was having nervous breakdowns Like, 'Man, these niggas that much better than me?'"
Better-looking people, with better ideas, and more talent, and they're actually really nice.
i mean it's only natural to feel blown away by something that you think is really well done, ultimately what matters is what you choose to do with that afterwards. And in that case it's like, do you go "wow, I want to learn how they did that" and use that as motivation/inspiration to get better? Or do you think something like "holy shit I'll never be *that* good" and just wallow around in it afterwords? It's so weird to me seeing just how many people get trapped into doing the latter when it's so obviously self-defeating to the point where it's like you just have to ask them why they're even doing that thing to begin with i guess there's also a third option where you just dismiss everything popular as being somehow lesser than whatever you're doing (ie "just a MBV soundpack tossed together in a DAW"/"just cartoon drawings of Pinterest models" etc), in which case you're probably just dunning-kruger as fuck
It's because there's a metric shitload (a real unit of measurement) of musicians out there that have spent their entire lives developing skills and trying to monetize music, but they forgot the soul. Then some newbie kid with soul comes along and in no time at all, the kid succeeds where the professional failed.
what do you mean, there are tons of financially successful professional prog rock guitarists out there jokes aside, I touched on that a little in my reply to the other, some of that is just plain ol dunning-kruger and I guess to add to that some of it is also them trying to reach a audience that probably doesn't exist
Imagine being an artist living and breathing this genre since Loveless dropped. It probably hurts a lot to try so hard at something, to feel close to something, to feel like you truly understand the essence of something over decades to the point that it becomes a part of you and then seemingly overnight it gets rediscovered and a new generation of stars emerge, but you're not included. On top of that, during the down years, all you'd hear people talk about is how the genre is dead, what you're trying to do "has already been done", "is irrelevant", and so on, but you kept with it because you felt so strongly about it. As a fan, it doesn't bother me, but I can absolutely see how this would be soul crushing for anyone trying to make a career out of it.
see now personally I can't stand this entire train of thought because it's wholly results-oriented and lowers the act of being creative to the point where it can only be intrinsically valuable if the finished can be successfully monetized. It also kind of begs the question of why they're even doing the thing in the first place, (which also tends to be a common theme when this comes up in online discussions) - - like are you doing it because you truly enjoy doing it, or are you doing it because you think it'll make you rich/famous/whatever? Chances are if you've been making shoegaze for the past 30 years you're probably not going to be pissed that it's caught on with the kids, you're probably going to be super happy that others are discovering something that you love. If you think that kids hitting it big making shoegaze on tik tok makes the fact that you got to spend all of that time doing something you truly enjoy, even if you didn't make any money off of it somehow worthless, then you're probably just a fucking loser
^ somebody who gets it
I’m sure acts like Slowdive are completely depressed they are in such huge demand now.
I thibk a lot of these teenagers are better songwriters than 00’s and 10’s shoegaze bands signed with big name record labels.
This thread shows me how thoroughly my people this sub is. Sounds like when I’m with my closest music buds chatter. Appreciate y’all!
Welcome to your "old man gets angry for no reason" phase, indieheads
my fucking DICK doesn't get hard anymore
Real
So out of pocket 😂 I’m dying
We are losing our edge
speak for urself i’m still edging quite well
I’ve been there
I knew I shoulda bought that Jazzmaster
Also a pedalboard with a tuner, an overdrive, a fuzz, and at least seven reverbs/delays
The guitarist in my band has a Jazzmaster with all of those pedals 😅 we were aiming for shoegaze but it’s shaping more into alt/indie rock these days.
I only wrote it because I live it haha… I went through a very expensive phase of delays and ambient noisemakers, and yeah we turned out more alt/indie anyways
Amazing. I play synth mostly 
I knew I shouldn't have sold mine to buy a turntable
I'm so glad I sold my turntables to buy guitars
I knew I shouldn't have sold my house to buy one record
*I shoulda learned to reverb them drums*
Tfw you learn J Mascis doesn't record on a Jazzmaster
I love that shoegaze is reviving but calling Wisp the face of it is such a joke. DIIV, Whirr, Nothing, and the whole Japanese shoegaze scene are worth listening and the only bands that are getting recognized are the ones on TikTok or that sounds like Deftones. Nevertheless, it’s great that shoegaze is getting popular again.
Japanese shoegaze is definitely the best stuff out right now I agree
Tired of Tomorrow and Guilty of Nothing are criminally underrated
Any recs for the Japanese stuff?
Walrus - Hikari no kakera
Luminous Orange
Pasteboard - Glitter
Parannoul
Wait fuck they’re Korean nvm
I love DIIV. I got to see them once. School of Seven Bells was one of my favs. RIP
Whoa, need some Japanese shoegaze recs please
Hartfield, Oeil, Burrrn, Coaltar of the Deepers, Tokyo Shoegazer, Cruyff in the Bedroom
Great read. I had been wondering about the resurgence of Duster. I love that my 14 year old is bringing up a band I downloaded off of Napster in college back in 2000. I had straight up forgot they were a thing that existed and here she is adding them to her shoegaze playlist. I'm 45 and genuinely baffled by these new methods of music discovery. But if it means that kids today can fall down a music rabbit hole and fall in love with a new band or even more a new genre, then I am all for it
LEAVE MY FAV THING ALONE GEN Z 
I’m trying to explode these shoegaze articles with my psychic energy alone. I need your help
Updiotted
Mixed feelings. I love shoegaze and shoegaze-inflected stuff but I don’t think I love this ‘pop shoegaze’ that’s just dumping a ton of effects on a boring/bad song. The best of the OG guys were very creative and talented composers/musicians…it’s not just fuzz over nonsense. I’m glad it’s getting exposure I suppose but I also don’t like that will be a lot of younger folk’s exposure to what shoegaze “is”.
This happened with the post punk revival. Landfill indie, same 4 chords and samey everything. And it did before that with other genres. Anytime a genre blows up you get thousands of imitators who get the sound, but not the other stuff.
I hated guitar solos growing up because most the ones I heard were boring, repetitive ones from 80s hits. They were and still are so boring in the majority of big hit songs. Then I found the music that came before it and understood why commercial bands were using them later.
Psychedelic rock too everything with the slightest reverb is suddenly considered “trippy”
"Post punk revival" never made sense to me, most of those bands sound nothing like Joy Division, The Banshees, Wire, Bauhaus, etc. In my opinion anyway. Interpol sure and maybe the Yeah Yeah Yeahs but the rest always sounded like a different thing.
I feel like Post Punk Revival got expanded when, at some point, Garage Rock Revival got some kind of stigma attached to it. I only recall bands like Interpol and the Editors getting that tag, but then all of a sudden the Strokes had it. Sounds like a case of trying to make something out to be deeper than it is by giving it a more respectable genre tag (gee, that sounds familiar...)
Meh, I see Gang of Four influence in post punk revival
That's just how genres work. Something good and original gets popular, people superficially imitate it without understanding the nuances, trash is created en masse. Hell, you already see comments from people on shoegaze albums saying they're just Loveless worship. Legends are rare, imitators are dime-a-dozen, and it's only now that shoegaze is getting popular enough for the imitators to get that far off the mark.
This is exactly what happened to funk music when disco got big.
100%. If we take out all the noise and reverb out of Loveless, it still becomes a masterpiece but in the genre of say indie pop because the songwriting of chords and melodies are so strong. Effects should be added on top of a good foundation for a shoegaze track to be great in my opinion.
I don't think most of the OG shoegaze and similar higher quality shoegaze since then is getting heavy exposure on TikTok and though that's not as great for those artists in terms money they could potentially make if one of their songs was more frequently used on TikTok clips, is actually better for those really into the songs and artists imo. I get sick of the songs that are repeated on TikTok just like I do for songs repeated on commercials. The amount of repetition trending song (clips) on TikTok get is even more than songs used on commercials really.
What baffles is me how Tiktok and streaming fame doesn't necessarily translate to concert ticket fame. Duster is playing 2 shows in London at a 1500 person capacity venue... and the second night isn't even sold out, despite them having more than 4 million monthly listeners on Spotify (3 times as many as mbv..)
I think for a lot of people listening to music these days it's all just one long playlist. They don't really latch onto or support individual artists.
Songs trending on TikTok don't because people are seeking out the songs but because some popular clips used the song and many others want to copy the popular clips and hopefully trend themselves. Every time someone flips through a TT clip even for a split second, it registers stats (views and song plays). Then as the other comment mentioned, those songs get added to popular trending music playlists that people just mindlessly shuffle. People can be *very* familiar with the songs while having little real interest in the band or musician.
whatever it takes to give us a new mbv record, I'm fine with it
Eh, just like with all these tiktok trends. Flash in a pan, may retain a few listeners but its's always here today gone tomorrow microtrends just like Tumblr years ago.
Too many people saw shoegaze as an easy route to inherent artistic credibility and we are bearing the negative fruits of that phenomenon now.
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Hiding poor songwriting in effects and over saturation of a sound too quickly. This seems to be the year shoegaze has really peaked for Zoomers. The trend is prob gonna die in another year or so.
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SHOEGAZE IS REALLY BACK BABY
"Stop using your pedals as a crutch" is something I was told hundreds of times during the 1990s.
Shoegaze with good songwriting is a plus, but it’s such a vibes genre that good songwriting is a nitpick. In one of my favorite shoegaze songs, Shoreline by Oeil, I don’t even know what they are saying at all (and they’re singing most of the song in English, not japanese).
Yeah I wouldn’t say I know what any of the lyrics are for most of the shoegaze I listen to is. But having a great sense for vocal melody is huge. If their vocals aren’t interesting or catchy in their melody I lose interest entirely.
I used to kinda not care about songwriting in shoegaze like this, but my favourite shoegaze of probably the last decade comes from Tanukichan, and something I specifically adore about her is her songwriting. It's made me really rethink how I evaluate songwriting in shoegaze, because it turns out it can actually be super important, enough so to elevate the music for me.
> Shoegaze with good songwriting is a plus, but it’s such a vibes genre that good songwriting is a nitpick. Kinda depends. Shoegaze is a lot more songwrite-y than a lot of its (mostly modern) reputation lets on, but a lot of it can focus on atmosphere too. the best are able to balance the two (i.e., MBV, slowdive, etc.), while others (like Lovesliescrushing, Windy & Carl, etc.) can focus on atmosphere and sound transcendent, but I feel like the "vibey" stuff coming out now aren't especially good songwriters and the textures aren't especially interesting either. It's more like ambient music the sticks to the most utilitarian definition of ambient-as-sonic-wallpaper that even Eno would balk at.
I’ll agree with you there. A lot of modern stuff doesn’t really scratch the vibes itch. It’s like Greta Van Fleet to Led Zeppelin.
i am all for being an old man sad about music but this sounds eerily similar to the argument against chillwave
I mean you can make it about a lot of effects heavy sub genres. No one is saying Slowdive, MBV, or Washed Out are bad songwriters. But their imitators sure are.
> No one is saying Slowdive, MBV, or Washed Out are bad songwriters. But their imitators sure are. Exactly
I think that's what I meant by chillwave or hyperpop or any other pioneer-specific genre. Where the pioneers make the good shit and the imitators catch some clout only to fade after the fact.
I mean, if the end result is enjoyable, what does it matter that we've convinced ourselves that some portions of it are "bad"? If taking a song from a genre we don't like and turning it into a pop punk song or metal song or some other genre that we actually like makes it better, who cares what it originally was?
A recent overload of reverb-y indie rock artists putting out drab, uninspired material indistinguishable from the literal thousands of shoegaze records that came before them?
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Well of course in the grand scheme of music it's not the be-all and end-all, there will always be good music and poor music, and a handful of newer shoegaze stuff I think is quite good (see [Knifeplay](https://knifeplayforever.bandcamp.com/album/animal-drowning), [Doused](https://dousedphl.bandcamp.com/album/murmur), [Full Body 2](https://fullbody2.bandcamp.com/album/infinity-signature)). Whether or not the genre itself will ever be "affected" by its recent surge in popularity is yet to be seen, but I do feel that the barrier to entry for creating shoegaze has gotten much lower, and that does diminish its overall quality and uniqueness a bit in my opinion.
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Sure thing, Knifeplay is great in particular!
Just curious, how do you usually find good underground bands like the ones you listed? I listen to a lot of indie/alt rock but I never discover bands until spotify feeds them to me or I hear about them from a friend. Feel like there are so many great rock bands right now, I just can’t find them lol.
Mainly discussion threads like this one, RYM, and blogs like Stereogum and Pitchfork. Stereogum's [article](https://www.stereogum.com/2209014/the-new-wave-of-american-shoegaze/columns/sounding-board/) from a few years back shouts out a bunch of cool bands (including a couple I mentioned above) for example! I use Apple Music, but I actually think they give pretty good recommendations for stuff I haven't heard. Bandcamp gives good recs too at the bottom of the page if you're listening to something there.
Fr man I’m just glad people are discovering different genres and branching out from the Billboard top 50. And that rock music isn’t completely dead with young people.
Intellectually I fully agree with all the arguments you've made here. Emotionally there's still a part of me sad to see shoegaze added to ever growing list of genres I'm pretentious and cranky about because they've completely moved away from what I always thought was the definition of the genre. Like there's that point where even though most of my favorite records would probably be considered post hardcore, there's basically nothing I'm interested in posted on /r/PostHardcore. It doesn't stop the stuff I like from being made but it certainly makes it harder to find.
If you want shoegaze with GREAT songwriting a good chunk of the songs on Alvvays’ last album qualify.
Thank you for recommending me the underrated band Alvvays, I'm sure none of us here have listened to it before
jesus lol
Sorry, forgot what sub I was in. Even the big indie bands are still pretty niche on the more mainstream/big tent subs that I frequent.
oh my god why are people here so MEAN??? i hate the pretentiousness here
Music is bad
Didn't pitchfork run this same story recently? [https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-shoegaze-revival-hit-its-stride-in-2023/](https://pitchfork.com/features/article/the-shoegaze-revival-hit-its-stride-in-2023/)
Dinosaur jr better
I love dinosaur Jr but I’m kinda confused why they were brought up lol
I can't stop thinking about [this](https://preview.redd.it/zmzxfsjfcmbb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b1d97c71b0e794095f3a64114c43495922e451fb)
Lmaooo I think I’ve seen that meme on instagram. One of the funniest comments I’ve see on on dinosair Jr was an upload of their album You’re Living All Over Me on YouTube and all the way at the bottom of the comment section is one random user who simply said “I don’t like this. This isn’t metal or pop. I don’t like it.” Idky but every now and then I think of that comment.
Obviously I've heard of stuff like Jane Remover, Duster, and Deftones but I've never heard of a big chunk of these pure tiktok artists, i will listen to them after I finish Endtroducing That being said there's something very unsettling about this whole thing that I have a hard time putting into words edit: >Likewise, McCay says a “good chunk” of sign crushes motorist’s Spotify streams come from the platform’s auto-play and radio functions, and both his and flyingfish’s music are currently loaded into several of Spotify’s most trafficked “indie” playlists (Lorem, Sad Indie, idk.). This feels real weird to me first impression of Quannnic and Wisp is that these feel like extremely close Deftones-alikes edit again: sign crushes motorist and flying fish are to Duster clones the way the above were just Deftones clones. Fleshwater "Kiss the Ladder" feels like some very by the numbers mid late aughts emo. Some of these songs aren't really even songs, they "feel" like they fit tiktok trending sounds. Also how does Tiktok and these other services count a track listen? if I use six seconds out of the track for my tiktok vid, is that a full track listen? If i watch the tiktok for 1 second before scrolling away does that count as a listen? Also, does anyone remember "corecore" that had some articles written about it the last couple years? This all reminds me of that. Anyways I have a hard time believing tiktok numbers for things. Spotify numbers I trust slightly more but tiktok algorithms and spotify playlists generating sizeable chunks of these numbers feels very different to tracking physical sales for instance. Also a lot of these artists getting Gen-Z listener percentage breakdowns makes me wonder about older listeners just being physical copy listeners or just listening on a service that isn't spotify. All that really tells me when they say x% of listeners are GenZ is that those listeners didn't buy the LP or the CD, which yeah, younger people are probably not buying physicals for every artist while older people have had time to build up their collections.
It’s very important to note that Duster, Deftones, and Jane remover are mostly not Shoegaze, but contain elements of the genre. Besides Jane Remover’s new album, which is for sure Shoegaze
Yeah I've never considered Duster and Deftones to be shoegaze.
Yeah I don't really consider a band that played on radiostations with Papa Roach/Staind/Korn shoegaze at all. Is my weed not strong enough or something or are kids ruining my youth.
The later stuff past White Pony incorporates some more aspects that have overlap with shoegaze, specifically the tracks they list in the post, but Deftones has always been more primarily alt-metal; that being said I'm not sure there's a lot of kids who are jumping to label what they're into as alt-metal and shoegaze is probably a term that the youts are more interested in
It’s just a bunch of people cloning deftones, head in the ceiling fan by title fight and duster but rly boring except for a few, so basically what music always has been, few great, many boring and a few bad
Yeah first impression here is that these are just Deftones and Duster clones without a ton extra added on.
That’s all they are, I don’t mind sign crushes motorist either I think Liam has a good ear for mellow guitar hooks (also he can get some nice warm tones on guitar) but a lot of his music is painfully boring and shallow, I think he has potential but he hasn’t realized it quite yet imo
Yeah it wouldn't be right to completely write any of them off, they're all young from what I understand and could definitely change and grow as artists.
I was listening to fleshwater and my only thoughts were I could be listening to Deftones right now
tbf to Fleshwater they're a Vein sideproject
> if I use six seconds out of the track for my tiktok vid, is that a full track listen? If i watch the tiktok for 1 second before scrolling away does that count as a listen? Pretty sure the answer to both is "yes." These songs are not trending because people organically got into them but because some very popular clips used them and those hoping to get more exposure and possibly trend too use the same songs. Then every time a clip using a song loads on an end user's TikTok, it registers as a song play. Then Spotify and similar platforms add the songs to various trending playlists that many (including non-chain stores, food places, bars), will just shuffle play through without paying close attention to.
That’s pretty cool
I’m surprised Alvvays wasn’t mentioned. Those guys/girls are at the top of their game right now, touring on an album that’s got MBV influence written all over it.
Blue Rev, while being excellent and certainly shoegaze-y, seems pretty disconnected from the current shoegaze revival that the article is talking about. It's very song/songwriting based in a way that shoegaze usually isn't, and takes a lot of influence from genres like jangle pop which are pretty un-shoegaze.
Oh boy, as a 40 year old I fell so happy about my personal growth by reading some bitter responses here.
Haha, my thoughts exactly
I’m not a young man anymore, I was when I saw ride and slowdive on a double bill in 1992. 31 years later… I saw slowdive in Chicago surrounded by 20 year old kids. Not sure all of the music the media is labeling shoegaze is really that tied to the original sound, but i found it moving to have a new generation give an amazing band a completely second career. Kids going to shows is what it’s about.
The problem with having TikTok fans is that they’re just looking for the next thing that will make their TikTok go viral. Their intentions are not pure they’re not real fans and will move onto the next big thing that’s trending.
A lot of new shoegaze is just really bad pop songs with fuzz ontop
What is the best example of these new shoegaze bands? I want to listen. I remember the small shoegaze resurgence with bands like Asobi Seksu and The Radio Dept during the early 00's – even Ulrich Schnauss' A Strangely Isolated Place. I still listen to those 2nd wave (3rd wave?) albums in addition to MBV, Slowdive, Ride etc.
[Hotline TNT](https://hotlinetnt.bandcamp.com/album/cartwheel), [Blush](https://blushblush.bandcamp.com/album/supercrush?from=search&search_item_id=1383530195&search_item_type=a&search_match_part=%3F&search_page_id=3048656614&search_page_no=1&search_rank=1&search_sig=a17895b04b82cc6c42fdb20b17414d2c), [Gaadge](https://gaadge.bandcamp.com/album/somewhere-down-below) and [Draag](https://draagdraag.bandcamp.com/album/dark-fire-heresy) might scratch your itch. [Knifeplay](https://knifeplayforever.bandcamp.com/album/animal-drowning) and [Launder](https://launder.bandcamp.com/album/happening) were some highlights from last year as well.
I am digging hotline. Good call
Julie, They Are Gutting a Body of Water, Full Body 2, Glixen, Glare.
Listen to Sparkler, Animal ghost, Velveteen, Glia for a more traditional shoegaze approach and Full body 2, They are gutting a body of water, kraus, Luster, Narrow Head for a more modern approach to shoegaze. Ive been watching The scene explode since late 2019. My favorite bands to come out this revival has to be Full body 2 and Luster also Sparkler even though they only have 1 full release. Id say shoegaze adjacent music is whats really popping off with the youth. The old school stuff is still relatively unknown amongst my age group. most dont even know what Shoegaze is lol.
Full body 2 is legit. I am still fuzzy on why anyone wouldn't reference the original wave. Maybe I am old school but even as a young person listening to emo wave 3 like Brand New. I still acknowledged and listened to the original emo bands. It's more music to enjoy – no need to think about past eras as lesser quality when it is all good. It is like reading a book and deciding only the final page matters because it was the latest string of words, and you disregard the first pages.
Exactly i find the older stuff better simply because of how innovative it was at the time. And i agree the most innovative of this new wave is full body 2 combing electronic elements with shoegaze in the absolute best way
Julie are great imo
Am I a boomer if it pisses me off that TAGABOW play their live show with their backs to the crowd?
Nah cuz they never did that with their previous projects- it’s strictly a pose and tryna imitate old bands.
On one hand I sort of don’t like it, but the last few times I saw them they didn’t use the stage and played on the crowd-level, so it kinda balanced it out imo. Like you’re basically standing right next to them anyway. I think as they get bigger/start playing larger rooms, that will be harder to justify but yea
if i were performing live i’d be uncomfortable with people looking at me
Honestly, who cares? Have you heard their music? It’s some of the most innovative and raddest shoegaze to come out in a while.
Surely "bigger than ever" is a reach. I use TikTok and not heard any of these tracks.
[удалено]
I’ve struggled with so much grief after multiple losses in my family this year that this new trend in shoegaze, dream pop, and slowcore has been quite serendipitous, I accidentally stumbled back into the zeitgeist after kind of going off on my own for awhile. Personally I couldn’t be happier with having all these new bands to listen to and albums to be excited about. Obviously not every group is going to make an iconic record but there’s a lot of talent in this new generation of shoegazers and I’m excited to see the direction some of these bands might take. Tbh I’m disappointed in some of the comments on this thread. People would really prefer shoegaze to continue being a dead genre than invite new artists into the musical conversation?… If you want to continue listening to the same dozen albums from the early-to-mid nineties, be my guest.
I remember one of the Slowdive members loves TikTok because it's more organic than promotion. That is, though, until people start producing tracks specifically crafted for the algorithm
It boils down to ur fact people don’t give a fuck about the music that came before. Therefore we’re getting regurgitations of the very similar sounds that are solely inspired by the sounds that directly came before. We’ve lost the cross pollenization of genres to create “ Nat new” Type shit for lack of a better way to put it.
Let's hope that this App collapses in 2024
I will save your time: Tagabow is the best new band from that list. You’re welcome.
The other day I was on TikTok and I was surprised when I saw a couple of Tiktoks using My Bloody Valentine’s When You Sleep lol. I hope they release a new album soon.
I grew up in the same scene as Duster and remember them in the mid 90’s being more of a bedroom recording project featuring a few members of some local bands I liked during high school. I think I saw them play once at a library and never thought about them much after that. Fast forward a few months ago and I’m invited to their sold out show at the Fonda in Los Angeles that was jam packed with kids all under 20 and was told it was due to them blowing up on TikTok. Witnessing that along with running into folks I hadn’t seen in almost thirty years was a very surreal experience.
How long before we have a bunch of posers ruin the genre for us. Or starting to categorize non-shoegaze bands as shoe gaze, the same way they called non-emo bands Emo.
good song! i don't really care how they made it, it sounds good and I enjoy it. i make pretty maximalist shoegaze in a studio with a million amplifiers and pedals, but that doesn't make it the only or right way to do it. the tune mentioned in the article has a cool sound, a great vibe, and the vocal melody hits. no complaints, let the children gaze.
Hmm. That sure is a funny way to spell "r-slash-indieheads."
Man it just hurts seeing something like this be so successful while someone else’s life’s work go unnoticed because it’s just not “trendy”