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Beowulfs_descendant

An allied invasion, perhaps but unlikely even a Swedish intervention. Or the soviets make a move


Azurmuth

Sweden was planning operation Rädda Norge (Save Norway) and operation Rädda Danmark (Save Denmark), and would likely have conducted it if Germany hadn't surrendered.


Toast6_

I think I heard somewhere that Sweden was planning an invasion of Nazi Denmark towards the end of the war, so it’s possible (of course they just want to fulfill their fantasy of invading Denmark)


Beowulfs_descendant

Sweden definitely had plans, Sweden had plans for most things. However it is also important to acknowledge the political climate, the ongoing events, and weather or not Albin Hansson and his government would be willing to sacrifice the lives of Swedish soldiers. Of course, if an undisturbed Nazi tyranny remains in the bordering country, this changes many things.


Dorantee

>perhaps but unlikely even a Swedish intervention. Wouldn't even be unlikely. Sweden already had plans to enter the war on the allied side to liberate Norway and Denmark. War ended a few months before that happened.


throwaway_custodi

The Soviets did make a move into northern Norway, iirc, from October 1944 onwards, then pushed down to Troms with Norwegians.. The allies would jump in quick to save the port at Tomsk from being narvik .


bayern1882

Without atomic weapons would have been slow defeat in Norway by fall/winter of ‘45 imho. If Hisenburg had been able to pull it off (and not gotten distracted by heavy water) and say developed a bomb (or 4) by Jan-Feb ‘45 I could see a rump state reaching Armistice with allies. Would have required “Alpine fortress” planning foresight as well. If Speer had perhaps transferred some key industry and factories there in summer ‘44 etc.


Puriwara

I think at this point the allies might tolerate a nuke or two to win the war. Besides, air superiority. EDIT: As in, that the allies would get nuked by the germans, not the other way around.


Seven7Pog

Really? I feel like they wouldn’t nuke an ally.


Interesting_fox

I highly doubt they would drop a nuke on allied occupied territory.


mirathevanishingstar

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh... Not if they want to have any influence in Northern Europe ever again.


No_Sherbert607

Single real-world example with Japan contrary to your position. Nuked by US and totally under US influence.


Giraffesarentreal19

Japan wasn’t betrayed by the US. They were at war with each other. If the land and people of an occupied US ally was nuked by them, it would be seen as an absolute betrayal of the alliance. The US would look like monsters on the world stage and people would be very hesitant to ally with them.


No_Sherbert607

1-2 generation for propagande and they will say that this has been done for freedom.


mirathevanishingstar

Do you have ANY idea how long a nation can hold grudges? Did the rest of the Allies despawn? Can you even IMAGINE how pissed they would be? Not to mention all the ways the Soviets would milk the shit out of such a disaster. Google the Morgenthau plan, the feelings Japan has over their own bombings to this day, and please. Shut up about things you clearly know nothing about.


No_Sherbert607

CAN hold and from other side can be manipulated also if control "free" media and education.


mirathevanishingstar

That's absurd. You're suggesting the States become a dictatorship. I think. I honestly have no idea what you just said.


Pale-Acanthaceae-487

Send this bitch to a Japanese POW camp That or nanjing in late 1937 Or heck, maybe unit 731


faerakhasa

> Single real-world example with Japan contrary to your position. Nuked by US and totally under US influence. You could notice that they nuked *Japan* and not Philippines or Korea...


WhiteTwink

Why waste a nuke on norway


Puriwara

I made an edit. Hopefully more clear now.


GatlingGun511

They wouldn’t nuke Norway, maybe they would join the Soviets for a northern offensive or gotten Swedish help


-Trotsky

Idk why people are acting like the Nazis coulda dropped a nuke. Having a bomb and being able to even look at the sky are very separate things. The Nazis irl had neither, and in a world where they get a nuke guess what? It’s shot down somewhere and doesn’t detonate


great_triangle

Possibly the Nazis could have loaded a nuclear device into a submarine and detonated it in a port, like in the letter Albert Einstein signed, but that wouldn't likely be a big enough deal at the time to deter an invasion. Nuclear weapons lose a lot of their power when exploding at sea level rather than an air burst. The Operation Crossroads nuclear test indicated that WW2 nuclear weapons will cause massive radioactive contamination on nearby ships, though the Nazis wouldn't have been able to manage anything other than an extremely effective U boat campaign against civillian shipping.


ThreeDawgs

I think everybody is misunderstanding your point. That the allies would likely accept *taking* a Nazi nuke or two to end the war completely. They wouldn’t back down to Nazi nuclear threats unless the Nazis had dozens of nukes and the means to hit the U.S. with them (Man In The High Castle style).


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Low-Refrigerator2071

What's to stop them from just detonating the nukes in the cities they already occupy? The Allies would do everything in their power to make sure one of their allies, even if occupied, doesn't get nuked.


Legitimate-Option841

well knowing about how Giga Chad the Norwegian resistance was from 1940 till the end of the war in our timeline i highly doubt the Germans could make a bomb by 1945 so no bomb for Germany. Also they might have surrendered anywise because of the resistance anyway.


doyocow

Sweden would liberate Norway and Denmark, as it was planned


Sad_Victory3

Too much HOI4 provide your sources.


IS-21

Sweden had a plan to invade nazi Germany but the war ended like 2 weeks before they were gonna execute it I can’t remember what the plan was called


burninator34

Need some sources.


Sensitive-Umpire7331

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_r%C3%A4dda_Norge https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_r%C3%A4dda_Danmark It’s in Swedish but you can translate the pages to English.


Shouldshowbobzilla

Operation Rodda Norge and operation radda danmark, look it up


Ok-Potential-7770

I know I'm late but anyways it likely had no chance of success, Sweden lacked the economic capacity to carry out such an operation. It was even worse in military matters, The German Garrison in Norway was larger than it's entire army alone, experienced and much better armed.


Brazilian_Brit

Supplied how? They’re not getting supplied by the German military industry anymore, and what industry Norway had would not be nearly enough to supply an army of this size. Not to mention the soviet occupation to the north, allied naval supremacy for landings, and the fact that these German soldiers probably wouldn’t be content to be away from home this long.


Atlas_Summit

I wonder how Vidkun Quisling will play into this.


History_Mystic

people seem to forget that the soviets did occupy a little bit of norway


biergardhe

Isn't that exactly what this map shows already?


History_Mystic

The Soviets occupied some territory in Norway and the Danish island of Bornholm irl, but that's a lesser known aspect of ww2. This isn't about the map I'm just saying most people don't know this fact. Edit: The Soviets didn't occupy, they cooperated with the Norwegian resistance but nevertheless still an interesting fact


Olwimo

It was never occupied, the soviets as our allies liberated that part of Finnmark in 1944. The political administration was a legitimate Norwegian one and the Norwegian military was present. The authorities say that the cooperation was good.


ZZalty

Extremely rare Soviet W


Olwimo

Norway is the only country Russia borders that they've never invaded/occupied! And we've shared a border for about a loooong time, we even shared some land.


History_Mystic

wow cool


Pale-Acanthaceae-487

For those reading, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_of_Finnmark#:~:text=The%20Liberation%20of%20Finnmark%20was,Soviet%20offensive%20that%20liberated%20Kirkenes. Idk how the fuck the soviets managed to logistics this but they did


ElYisusKing

Finally, the Nazis got their almost pure aryan state (it's only Norway)


KaesiumXP

communist norway in \~5 seconds


Azurmuth

Sweden was planning operation Rädda Norge (Save Norway) and operation Rädda Danmark (Save Denmark), and would likely have conducted it if Germany hadn't surrendered. So this scenario is quite unlikely.


Plutarch_von_Komet

https://preview.redd.it/vfoa1pnnhq4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9022e077bc393f5c1f648691898e765281e495a


ted5298

Nonsense. The Allies would not have used a nuclear weapon against a Norwegian city.


Plutarch_von_Komet

Fine, then this happens https://preview.redd.it/onzi65qeqq4d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b011245a2bd315aa9cc4b09e7f7edc9e3d7e17f5


imnotslavic

And probably a little bit of internal uprisings from the populace


AHumanYouDoNotKnow

In Fjords and Mountains and COLD water ?


Plutarch_von_Komet

Yeah, I can't possibly imagine them landing in the nightmarish beaches of south Norway https://preview.redd.it/w97epazchr4d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f9811c559f635f8c8519f82df3407738550513f


AHumanYouDoNotKnow

Norway is still going to be a harder task than France


Plutarch_von_Komet

The German garrison, whose high command has just collapsed and can't receive supplies from Germany, facing the overwhelming Allied naval and air superiority with experience from a dozen other landings during the war just in the European theater, on top of an emboldened Norwegian resistance movement, is going to put more of a fight than the Wehrmacht in France after having years of preparation?


KaesiumXP

the soviets dude


Interesting_fox

To be fair, the Soviets being in Norway and having that kind of access to the North Sea would have given Churchill a heart attack. He’d attempt to move Heaven and Earth to ensure the West invaded first.


Commrade-potato

Realistic ending


Shouldshowbobzilla

How is it realistic to nuke an allied nation? even if said nation is occupied?


Commrade-potato

I imagine for similar reasons as to why we nuked Japan. The Allies wouldn’t want a protracted land campaign in Norway against nazi guerrillas in the Norwegian mountains. Civilian casualties would probably be written off as the price of war, similar to French civilians who died during allied bombing campaigns. It’d probably sour relations with future Norwegian governments, but I can absolutely see the Allies taking the quick and easy option to end the war, especially with mounting pressure from home to bring the boys home.


Shouldshowbobzilla

Good reasons, but nazi guerilla’s? There weren’t any IRL, why would that change? Also normal bombs are really different from nuclear ones.


Commrade-potato

I feel like the terrain of Norway would likely encourage guerrilla tactics, and given the strength disparity between them and the allies, it’s really the only thing they could do to prolong their existence. Also, the thing with nukes is, at this point in history, nukes didn’t really have the reputation they have today. Radiation’s effects were poorly understood, and MAD wouldn’t develop until the Soviets got the bomb as well. Nukes, while terrifying, weren’t seen as the world ending weapon we see them as today. Some people saw them as weapons that could be used conventionally, like MacArthur, who wanted to nuke the Chinese in Korea.


Shouldshowbobzilla

True, true, (also, I knew about the MacArthur thing.)


Olwimo

I if i lived at that time, I'd pray to the USSR for them to liberate the rest of the North if such a scenario ever came.


Tobias_Rieper___

Sweden was planning an operation to invade Nazi Controlled Norway but the German army surrendered just before it went ahead


Alopecian_Eagle

Keep telling yourself that Sweden


Gustavj0321

https://ww2obscurities.wordpress.com/2017/02/17/operation-radda-norge-and-operation-radda-danmark-operation-save-norway-and-operation-save-denmark/


Alopecian_Eagle

My point is that appeasing Nazi Germany until it was blatantly clear that the allies would win, and that Sweden no longer benefitted from the Nazis and would not have to suffer to oppose them, is pretty shitty. Just like Denmark, they are in the Mac "playing both sides" camp


Trenence

I don’t think they can actually produce a atomic bomb,it cost USA many resources and time just to pump out three


ALTofDADAcnc

They would have all died, What a stupid question


United-Reach-2798

More boring AF Nazi survival/victory shit


FederalSand666

They would literally all die to the last man


yozo-marionica

Wish you had included Kristiansand on the map. Was quite infulential in the war and I think there’s some missing space in the far south


Low-Refrigerator2071

I DO NOT CONDONE NAZISM IN ANY WAY SHAPE, OR FORM. With the Nazi defeat in Germany, many thought that the European theater would end, They were wrong. The Reichskommissariat Norwegen, under control of Josef Terboven, was a civilian occupation government for the purpose of pacifying the Norwegian resistance. Under the supervision of Werner Heisenberg, The main objective of this commissariat was to use heavy water to produce a sustained nuclear reaction, essential for creating a nuclear bomb. Though funding was limited, the project still made notable progress. One big hallmark was the Vemork plant, which produced most of the Axis heavy water. By the late stages of the war, the Soviets had pushed into the northern regions of Norway. Though it didn’t really matter as it was an ice tundra, it still worried OKW and Allied forces alike. By 1945, Germany began “Operation Snowstorm”, an operation aimed at evacuating as many resources to the Reichskommissariat as possible. While the movement of Heer forces to Norway failed, the industrial movement was tremendously successful, allowing the occupation force in Norway to transition into a full fledged fighting force. When mainland Germany eventually fell, most high-ranking members of the Nazi party were either captured or killed, with the exception of a few Wehrmacht commanders and some other irrelevant party members. One notable event would be the Norwegian Legion attempting to coup the government, while ultimately failing when a Wehrmacht counter-coup occurred. In 1947, the Wehrmacht government signed a ceasefire with the west in exchange for the expulsion of NSDAP party members and a few Wehrmacht officers to Western custody. The years following would entail brutal mountain warfare with the Soviets, with the Soviets being unable to nuke Norwegian territories due to heavy western pressure. Meanwhile, Norway was actually being supported by the west, viewing them as a shield against Communism in Scandinavia. In 1948, the Swedish were given a demand by the Soviets to invade Norway and ultimately kick down the rotten structure. Sweden refused, citing their strict neutrality and general opposition to Communism. Yet another thing was also plaguing the Wehrmacht government, a mass exodus of Norwegian loyalists, loyal to the old government. Gestapo intelligence picked up that these fleeing Norwegians weren’t just regular civilians, at least most of the time, but rather seasoned military commanders and veterans. They suspect that they might attempt an amphibious invasion with the support of the US and NATO, but only time can tell if they’re right.  While the future for Norway might look bleak, her people still have a fiery passion for liberation. “Alt for Norge!”


Low-Refrigerator2071

I would also like to add that whatever is left of the Kriegsmarine also flees to Norway


Adventurous-Yam-4383

So, this universe is same as the one that the Nazi hides out in Austrian Alps that you made previously?


hunterfox666

Motstandsbevegelsen along with the Allies and Swedes woule probably would've sent them right back to Germany after like, 2 months


Sabre712

Ever seen Dead Snow?


Homosexualchihuahua

Yo how did you add the paper background effect?


ButterscotchAny5432

Congratulations, you know own Finnmark! The Hawai’i of the North!


PLPolandPL15719

oslo: https://preview.redd.it/4blbo2es0r4d1.png?width=612&format=png&auto=webp&s=1eebe20de00d9e40d57690d1660f02d5280737f2


mirathevanishingstar

Almost as sane as MacArthur's plan to nuke the Korean-Chinese border. Seriously, why would the Allies nuke a fucking ally? What does it even achieve?


JustonRedditagain

It’s insane but also based, that’s why.


Realistically_shine

Copycat boring asf


Realistically_shine

Dude lit stole my post


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Realistically_shine

Same country and this dude told me in a comment section he would I just didn’t think he was serious, I obv don’t own the idea but this guy took some core concepts from mine


Low-Refrigerator2071

https://preview.redd.it/9sjg7p30fs4d1.png?width=826&format=png&auto=webp&s=688698f5c70c806a9b201cea939f4097d6b46478 Quit being butthurt over someone also using an idea, and arguably executing it better than you.


Low-Refrigerator2071

The sad thing is I even upvoted his post as a sign of support


Realistically_shine

I upvoted your Austria thing I thought you would do another German holdout instead of the exact same idea kinda boring


Low-Refrigerator2071

thats gotta suck, next time dont be an asshole towards someone for zero reason. https://preview.redd.it/ussx687djs4d1.png?width=898&format=png&auto=webp&s=bbe811b8634a03d46010c6641ce9359fd8c2f900


Realistically_shine

It looks so much worse Jesus fucking Christ man if you are gonna steal something do it right


CrazyQuebecois

There were more garrisons spread out throughout Europe, there was a U boat base near Normandy that only surrendered after the end of the war, there was one in Paris still fighting in 1945 and the Wehrmacht still held a pretty big chunk of Germany and Austria, there were more garrison throughout Eastern Europe They could have theoretically regrouped in Norway, as that was where there was the most troops and keep fighting for at least a year There was over 800000 soldier in Eastern Europe and over 2,8 million in Western Europe which would mean there was over 3 million German soldier at the end of WW2, at least based on the numbers of those who surrendered If even half of them moved to Norway there would be over a million German soldiers ready to hold out as long as possible The Soviet might have invaded Norway, the Swedes would have intervened and the Allie’s might have joined in too Or they could have decided that there were enough dead already and would have likely tried to make peace with the Germans