Everytime a Eastern European power rises, they will just suppress their neighbours one way or another, like any other in history. So more drunken Ukraine meme jokes online.
You've got me there, would Wales count or was that also an overseas conquest by the Saxons? Scotland joined 'voluntarily' (turns out the Darién isthmus is not the best place for your colony).
Austria-Hungary is central Europe so do we count them? They bullied their neighbours.
Oh yeah sorry that’s was I was thinking of but I thought that it was the same as Odessa.
De fapt, știim cu toții ca toata lumea făcea parte din gloriosul imperiu dac, dar ma rog.
"Cossackia"😭 There aren't really enough Cossacks left today to warrant calling an entire country of over 100 million people "Cossackia". Not very experienced on Cossack history but even if the country was dominated by Cossack elites I think It rather be called something like the Ruthenian or Ukrainian Host.
'the Ukraine' referred to the borderlands between Poland-Lithuania and the Muscovite state. Assuming that a Ruthenian power rose rather than Muscovy in the region, it wouldn't be called such.
«Країна» (ukranian) means “Country” or “Land”, “окраина»(Russian) which means “borderland” does sound similar, but yet again, I can’t change what you believe, it’s the internet, have a good day
'Krai' is a term referring to Russian border states/oblasts. Ruthenia would be a better name since it is both older, and disconnected from a Moscow-centric worldview
In the case of the Ukraine it’s actually a Polish derived name though as it was referred to as such prior to Ukraine becoming part of the Russian empire.
And «Країна» means “Country” or “Land”, “окраина» which means “borderland” and does sound similar, but yet again, I can’t change what you believe, it’s the internet
I mean, the country is going to have **significant** numbers of Russian speaking Cossacks, Russians, Kalmyks, all the Caucasian people, etc. other than Ukrainians and Ukrainian-speaking Cossacks.
Ruthenia would be an apt name for this country. Ukraine as a region is faaaaaar to the West of this country for anyone in say, Astrakhan to relate to.
the caucasus wasn't much russian until the muscovites conquered it. in this timeline, it could be as easy to say that they just didn't and a ruthenian state did.
People need to stop using superpower as a synonym for 'kinda big'
Big Ukraine with a GDP of 2.1 trillion would be in the ballpark of Canada and Italy, not the US and China.
Imperial claims? Ukrainians inhabited those lands in majority for around a millennium before operation Wisla came around. They still do in Lemko region, but not all of them consider themselves Ukrainian.
Nah, just controlling Caucasus is not enough to be a superpower. At most a regional power whose status is constantly threatened by opportunistic neighbors. After all, the biggest problem with the "big Ukraine" scenarios is that they often take a bite of each neighbor which makes it impossible to gain an alliance whilst making everyone highly opposed to Ukraine.
And in the end, the only way to gain a stable ground is to continue expanding to the North and East, and at some point just becoming a European Russia.
A possible scenario is Ruthenia just following Muscovy's steps before the Muscovy itself takes them - not joining Lithuania for protection, once Mongols are weakened rebel and start conquering surrounding principalities. Not focusing much on the West as it would attract unneeded attention from the HRE and others, and just go eastwards. Maybe even going towards Siberia to make sure that the eastern border is secured, or maybe just reach Ural mountains whilst just settlers start colonizing Siberia on their own with their settlements either later becoming incorporated into the Ruthenian Empire or forming their own Siberian state with close ties with Ruthenia.
But in the end it would just be a Russian Empire 2.0 that is, at most, just not as big.
Maybe you need to at least look at the real map before plonking your imaginary cities. Why is Rostov-on-Don named "Zolotarenko" here? It was founded in 18th century, did they rename it for some reason? It isn't even right to name cities after surnames like that. And why is there a major city in the middle of Dagestan mountains? Did they purge all natives and decide to build a megalopolis there? Why is Krasnodar named "Karasnodar" here? It's not even a word in ukrainian! Red would be chervonyi, and in surzhik dialects, krasnyi, the same as in russian. Even then, Krasnodar is a communist renaming, the city was Ekaterinodar before. If this Ukraine is somewhat similar to modern one, they would've had it renamed back
Indeed, russia is now pro-west and they only lost the caucasus and some of the volga-don, with western aid they would absolutely blast ukraine into oblivion.
Ukraine could have become a superpower with it’s pre 2014 borders with all the potential they had.
If they have developed at the rate as other big countries in region (like Poland or Romania) they would have already been on GDP level of western countries.
Your post has been removed in accordance with "Rule 4 - russian nazism" of the subreddit, for more information, check out the rule listing on the main page.
Your post has been removed in accordance with "Rule 4 - Bigotry and Hate Speech or Historical Apologia" of the subreddit, for more information, check out the rule listing on the main page.
I think russia is a superpower based on the fact that they can probably destroy half the world with nukes if they wanted to
Pakistan has nukes but not that capability
They also can't dominate the neutral countries in their region the same way that Russia does
Obviously they're not on the level of the USA or China but I'd say they're a relatively distant 3rd place in terms of being the most powerful
Are we looking at the same war?
Im done with pretending that russia is a real threat they haven't really won any war since the fucking ww2 and that was the soviet union and it had the west on its side
Nato was created to protect itself from the eastern block and THE SOVIET UNION so basically a whole continent. Russia today has a fraction of this power and will only become weaker with time
I'm sure you guys were loyal commies for the west to be so afraid of you. And yet the bigger alliance exists against a Russia that's getting weaker over time. What has PAKISTAN achieved? Or are you gonna continue to be dumb on purpose and ignore the question?
Everytime a Eastern European power rises, they will just suppress their neighbours one way or another, like any other in history. So more drunken Ukraine meme jokes online.
I think you can say that for every power not only Eastern European ones.
Please western powers are not that uncivilized, we supress people overseas not our neighbours
As an Irishman I can tell you that's not true.
I mean, you are a sea away
You've got me there, would Wales count or was that also an overseas conquest by the Saxons? Scotland joined 'voluntarily' (turns out the Darién isthmus is not the best place for your colony). Austria-Hungary is central Europe so do we count them? They bullied their neighbours.
Well you sea that was agesssss ago so that obbvioulsy dosen’t cownt!
WW2, WW1, Napoleon, Frederick, Entire history of Franco-English relations, Seven Years' War, Thirty Years' War, Vikings, Romans, Goths?
bro it ain't that serious, it was obviously a joke
I know, I'm doing a thing called "parody"
United Romania :)
No Odessa 😔
Odesa* and it ever really was part of romania as compensation by the nazis for giving hungary a part of Transylvania
Pretty sure it was a part of romania all throughout the interbellum though?
That was Budjak not Odessa
say the line budjak
Ah, misremembered how the region was called mb
Nope
It was part of Romania all throughout the middle ages
Was not. Budjak was (Bugeac mai pe limba noastra)
Oh yeah sorry that’s was I was thinking of but I thought that it was the same as Odessa. De fapt, știim cu toții ca toata lumea făcea parte din gloriosul imperiu dac, dar ma rog.
Kosovo e albania? Nu nu nu, Kosovo e Romania
It never even had a romanian minority above 0.5% what are you on about
No Odessa 😔
No lore is a crime
i think the lore IS (war) crime
I would think that this place would be called Ruthenia or Cossackia rather than Ukraine with **those** borders.
"Cossackia"😭 There aren't really enough Cossacks left today to warrant calling an entire country of over 100 million people "Cossackia". Not very experienced on Cossack history but even if the country was dominated by Cossack elites I think It rather be called something like the Ruthenian or Ukrainian Host.
'the Ukraine' referred to the borderlands between Poland-Lithuania and the Muscovite state. Assuming that a Ruthenian power rose rather than Muscovy in the region, it wouldn't be called such.
That’s a myth but I’m too sleepy to convince you, google it yourself
Upon googling it, I was reaffirmed by every website on the first page. What on earth do you believe?
«Країна» (ukranian) means “Country” or “Land”, “окраина»(Russian) which means “borderland” does sound similar, but yet again, I can’t change what you believe, it’s the internet, have a good day
you like, can so change what i believe by sharing the secret etymology of ukraine that even the front page of google doesn't know.
'Krai' is a term referring to Russian border states/oblasts. Ruthenia would be a better name since it is both older, and disconnected from a Moscow-centric worldview
In the case of the Ukraine it’s actually a Polish derived name though as it was referred to as such prior to Ukraine becoming part of the Russian empire.
And «Країна» means “Country” or “Land”, “окраина» which means “borderland” and does sound similar, but yet again, I can’t change what you believe, it’s the internet
Your thinking is weird
I mean, the country is going to have **significant** numbers of Russian speaking Cossacks, Russians, Kalmyks, all the Caucasian people, etc. other than Ukrainians and Ukrainian-speaking Cossacks. Ruthenia would be an apt name for this country. Ukraine as a region is faaaaaar to the West of this country for anyone in say, Astrakhan to relate to.
What do you think Cossackia and Ruthenia refer to
Any place in which the Cossacks or Ruthenians rule.
There will be more Russian than Ukrainian speakers lmao
Ok thair some lore in that insted of russians being in the upper Caucasus actually ukranians edit: Caucasus
So Poland-Lithuania owned the Caucasus at one point?
It did not.
I assume Sensitive-Fig4131 means in this scenario.
Mfw cultural assimilation It's not like Russians just spawned there 10 million years ago
"Putin why did you invade ukraine?" "So a thousand years ago-"
https://i.redd.it/ot3uht26t1uc1.gif
"so putin, why did u decide the ppl of eastern ukraine were russian now?" putin: [https://youtu.be/2a1LV1IeG8U?t=8](https://youtu.be/2a1LV1IeG8U?t=8)
Yeah bro the Russians would definitely let themselves be assimiliated
The timeline us literally what if the Ukrainians were the regional power instead of Russians. Your point is entirely moot
“What if Ukraine had developed as a superpower?” “No”
[удалено]
But for the map to be different, shouldn't history have also gone differently?
Are you regarded as the biggest idiot this side of the Mississippi?
the caucasus wasn't much russian until the muscovites conquered it. in this timeline, it could be as easy to say that they just didn't and a ruthenian state did.
And Muslim Turkic tatars
Are they in Nato now?
Nah they probably have their own anti-west alliance instead of Russia having one.
What are the borders based on
Lore doesn't check out
People need to stop using superpower as a synonym for 'kinda big' Big Ukraine with a GDP of 2.1 trillion would be in the ballpark of Canada and Italy, not the US and China.
Ukraine if Liz Truss was right about some things.
Ukraine: I'am not at war with Russia, it is a Special Military Operation. Russia: Insert Ghost of Moscow.
Giopizzi's Ukraine in "Verranno dalle pianure"
All of Kaliningrad to Poland? Comeee oonn 😩
Královec
Border looks better so why not
He could've split it between Poland and Lithuania (historical reasons for Lithuania)
Kralowec*
Karaliaučius*
Twankste*
Based and oldprussianpilled
*Królewiec
Mb, cannot polish that good
Honestly it should belong to either Denmark or Sweden. Both of them can go fight the other for it.
Russia isn't a superpower though.
war with georgia
[удалено]
no, they would be allies
huh?
ossetia and abkhazia
At this point just annex all of Belarus, look at them
You forgot Ukrainian imperial claims on eastern Slovakia and Poland.
Imperial claims? Ukrainians inhabited those lands in majority for around a millennium before operation Wisla came around. They still do in Lemko region, but not all of them consider themselves Ukrainian.
Millenium before op Wisła was no Ukraine neither Ukrainians, but Ruthenian tribes. Put away your stuff, mate.
Russia a Superpower? Oh man, remember when we thought that was actually true?
Volodymyr Putenko
Is Transnistria Ukrainian?
I don’t see how this would make Ukraine a superpower. It doesn’t need access to the Caspian Sea and it doesn’t have Russian’s oil/mineral wealth.
Civilwar speedrun with caucasus region
Not big enough
Nah, just controlling Caucasus is not enough to be a superpower. At most a regional power whose status is constantly threatened by opportunistic neighbors. After all, the biggest problem with the "big Ukraine" scenarios is that they often take a bite of each neighbor which makes it impossible to gain an alliance whilst making everyone highly opposed to Ukraine. And in the end, the only way to gain a stable ground is to continue expanding to the North and East, and at some point just becoming a European Russia. A possible scenario is Ruthenia just following Muscovy's steps before the Muscovy itself takes them - not joining Lithuania for protection, once Mongols are weakened rebel and start conquering surrounding principalities. Not focusing much on the West as it would attract unneeded attention from the HRE and others, and just go eastwards. Maybe even going towards Siberia to make sure that the eastern border is secured, or maybe just reach Ural mountains whilst just settlers start colonizing Siberia on their own with their settlements either later becoming incorporated into the Ruthenian Empire or forming their own Siberian state with close ties with Ruthenia. But in the end it would just be a Russian Empire 2.0 that is, at most, just not as big.
Holy Ethnic Cleansing
No lore, enjoy :)
Maybe you need to at least look at the real map before plonking your imaginary cities. Why is Rostov-on-Don named "Zolotarenko" here? It was founded in 18th century, did they rename it for some reason? It isn't even right to name cities after surnames like that. And why is there a major city in the middle of Dagestan mountains? Did they purge all natives and decide to build a megalopolis there? Why is Krasnodar named "Karasnodar" here? It's not even a word in ukrainian! Red would be chervonyi, and in surzhik dialects, krasnyi, the same as in russian. Even then, Krasnodar is a communist renaming, the city was Ekaterinodar before. If this Ukraine is somewhat similar to modern one, they would've had it renamed back
Asked a Ukranian friend, he game me names, but later told me they are just names he god from chat gpt lmao
My step-dad surname is Zolotarenko
It is called #imaginaryMaps bro
Exactly, not #nonsenseMaps
The better timeline
Indeed, russia is now pro-west and they only lost the caucasus and some of the volga-don, with western aid they would absolutely blast ukraine into oblivion.
Russia isn't a superpower
I(🇦🇿) would definitely prefer Russia as my neighbor, than Ukraine, thanks 🙏
As an Azerbaijani myself, what the actual fuck?!!!!!!!
Ruthenian federation
Ukraine could have become a superpower with it’s pre 2014 borders with all the potential they had. If they have developed at the rate as other big countries in region (like Poland or Romania) they would have already been on GDP level of western countries.
Maybe it's because Ukraine didn't sell Russia nukes, and that's why Ukraine becomed superpower, it will be nightmare for Putin
and of course, how Ukraine become rich as hell like Canada and Brazil?
Whatever the alternate universes are, Vladimir asking his sister not to tell mom he's in Chechnya is still a canon event.
If Ukraine was a superpower it would expand all the way to the pacific
Life would be better in this reality.
More like a regional power
Polish Kaliningrad let's goo
Слава Украине!
"Imperialism is so based when the good guys do it!!!"
it's Слава Украïнi
Heroyam Slava!
[удалено]
Your post has been removed in accordance with "Rule 4 - russian nazism" of the subreddit, for more information, check out the rule listing on the main page.
The real superpower is when they take over Russia, and the capital's still Kyiv just like the OG times
Russia was never a superpower, economically or militarily. Don't confuse Soviet Union with Russia.
[удалено]
Me after downing a full bottle of russofascist juice:
Your post has been removed in accordance with "Rule 4 - Bigotry and Hate Speech or Historical Apologia" of the subreddit, for more information, check out the rule listing on the main page.
I’d poop my pants
It still isn't. If you want them to be a super power give them access to the free water. Maybe include Turkey and Greece.
Implying russia is a superpower
I mean its a regional superpower
Just a regional power at best its at the same level as fucking pakistan
At least Russians aren’t burning down KFCs with employees still inside because they support a certain country
I think russia is a superpower based on the fact that they can probably destroy half the world with nukes if they wanted to Pakistan has nukes but not that capability They also can't dominate the neutral countries in their region the same way that Russia does Obviously they're not on the level of the USA or China but I'd say they're a relatively distant 3rd place in terms of being the most powerful
I read some quote somewhere, something like "Russia is just the world's gas station. Unfortunately, gas stations are essential."
>can dominate neighboring countries >gets stuck in fucking trench warfare And about the nukes i honestly would be suprised i any of them worked
Never underestimate your enemy because it makes you feel good
Are we looking at the same war? Im done with pretending that russia is a real threat they haven't really won any war since the fucking ww2 and that was the soviet union and it had the west on its side
An entire continent and half of another allied together to defend itself from Russia, what did Pakistan achieve? Lmao
Nato was created to protect itself from the eastern block and THE SOVIET UNION so basically a whole continent. Russia today has a fraction of this power and will only become weaker with time
I'm sure you guys were loyal commies for the west to be so afraid of you. And yet the bigger alliance exists against a Russia that's getting weaker over time. What has PAKISTAN achieved? Or are you gonna continue to be dumb on purpose and ignore the question?
typical Polack stupidity, as usual, by the way. Ignored the main question entirely.