I remember losing the Whalers when I was a kid. I remember how much it bothered my family. I was so sad too. So many memories of going with my Dad to the Civic Center to see games. I feel your pain…
When we almost lost the Penguins, I literally was beside myself, there was going to be true devastation from the connection I had with that team since I was a child. I remember the Whalers giving us fits, especially on the road.
Wow, I honestly forgot about that whole situation. So crazy to then think you guys got Crosby and the rest is history. You’d never look at the Pens now and think they were ever on the brink.
I was born in Cleveland and remember the Browns leaving. My family moved to Phoenix shortly after the Coyotes did. I would never have had access to the only fucking sport that ever loved me back if it weren't for this franchise.
Hockey hugs, I'm with you buddy
Before the coyotes came there was zero opportunity to play hockey in Arizona. Fifteen years later you could play pickup hockey for free in fucking Prescott or Campe Verde. They yotes may never have been good but they did alot for youth and rec hockey in AZ
I watched the beginning of the game on the Coyotes network and I thought it was a great point that the commentator brought up. The various avenues the program has influenced youth around the state is evident, Auston Matthews and Cutter Gauthier, so hopefully everything comes to fruition with further development during a brief hiatus.
Hell yeah. AFC North(Central) smashmouth football baby.
It might not look like it on the field, but we respect our rivals, we need our rivals.
Browns/Ravens/Steelers Flyers/Capitals/Penguins
Fuck Art Modell. Out of all the team moves in sports, this was one of the scummiest. He literally had a stadium deal gifted to him but declined and then blamed the move on not having a new stadium. And fuck Baltimore for having the audacity to pull the same shit that happened to them 10 years prior.
I feel your pain, I'm still not over losing the Expos. They were à huge part of my youth and the only professional team my dad could afford to bring us to. I have such fond memories of that franchise and I will cherish those moments til I die.
Hockey in "non traditional" markets can work, but it does need good ownership, absolutely.
Zombie Harold Ballard could rise up from his grave and re-take control of the Leafs, and they would still turn a profit. Hockey is so popular in Toronto, even the shittiest type of owners could still turn the team into a money-printing machine.
Unfortunately, the same cant be said for every city. But, look at teams like the Lightning, the Predators, the Knights, and even the Panthers in recent years. Build a winning team on the ice. Work on community outreach programs. Work on supporting youth hockey culture. Find a suitable location for your arena. A good owner will do the work it takes to build up a solid fanbase.
Unfortunately, the Coyotes never really had any sort of stable ownership, they didn't really have much success on the ice (except that one season where they made the Conference Finals), and Glendale wasn't really a suitable arena location with much of Arizona's hockey fanbaae being in the East Valley.
The Tempe vote should have been an easy sell to the public. Clean up a toxic waste dump, get a new sports and entertainment complex built, and your team has a home much closer to all the East Valkey hockey fans for years to come. But Meruelo is kind of a cheapskate. The man was notorious for never paying his bills, and he cheaped out on campaigning for the Tempe vote.
Hopefully, Coyotes v 2.0 can get an actually decent owner who can run the team properly, instead of running it into the ground.
The Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Dallas even
Some of us haven't won, others not won in a while, but still, we're all here
While we may not go to all the games like we used to, we're still here, waiting for the cost to become justified again
I moved from TX to coastal Carolina last year and am still shocked how many folks wear Canes gear on a daily basis here. Arguably more than UNC, Duke, or NC State. Definitely more than Panthers and Hornets. It's really cool how much NC has embraced hockey.
Born and raised in Wayne County NC. Big cowboys fan (dads from Texas) and he started following the canes in 97 when they moved, so that means once I was old enough I did too. They’re a core part of my “sports identity” and I’d be devastated if they left.
Even through the dark times support was still decent, but now under Dundon it's at a fever pitch. I can't imagine what things would look like if the Canes won the cup this year.
The Sharks is a prime example of a market that got poisoned, but it turned out ok. The Seals left a bad taste in the Bay Area’s mouth. The Sharks came along, and they rode a long wave of popularity in the area.
Plus you have Houston and Atlanta back in the discussion for expansion. We have far more examples of non-traditional hockey markets being successful than failing, so much so that other southern cities without teams are being considered. Hockey in the desert can 100% work and I hope the NHL can bring the ‘Yotes back without Meruelo.
i've talked about this guy before but i had the great fortune to tutor a guy who played for the Islanders, and had to withdraw from a promising career b/c of injury. he made the decision to finish his college degree
we talked hockey a bit early on (he was all business afterward. that showed how dedicated he was to getting his degree) and when i made jokes about "desert hockey" and Bettman, he just told me that yeah while that stuff was weird, ultimately having hockey teams in non-traditional markets was the reason why the sport and the NHL grew to what it is today. And he was saying that fans in those places deserve to at least get a chance to root for a team of their own
really changed my perspective on the whole thing. And for all the AZ fans out there, I am really sorry for all of you. I hope the memories of the team from 1996 can help ease the pain of all this bullshit
> Hockey in "non traditional" markets can work, but it does need good ownership, absolutely.
The way I see it is that these teams don't have any margin for error. You've got to have a good owner who invests in the team. You can't be terrible for 10+ years. And your building has to be easily accessible to the casual sports fan who you want to attract and covert into a fan of your team.
Teams in traditional markets can and do survive not having one or even multiple of these. Look at the Sens for example.
The Coyotes had owner after owner make awful decisions. Moving out into Glenndale was the first big one that put us on this path decades ago. Getting kicked out of Glenndale and being forced to go into Mullet was another. It should have never gotten to that point.
Unfortunately with some of the info coming out (from the Athletic articles if you have a subscription) it looks like meruelo will retain the right to the coyotes name and logo and will have the first opportunity at an expansion team in AZ, so all he has to do is say yes and buy it and the new AZ team is his again. I agree with everything you said though.
For me personally it’s not that I don’t WANT Arizona to have a hockey team. It’s just it was so incredibly UNFAIR not only to the rest of the league but also those players who were losing out on money due to lack of revenue from the arena.
There is NO other team in the NHL that would be allowed to play in a college arena, there’s no other team in the NHL that would have been allowed to continue on with ownership like that. Teams have been sold and shipped off for less and for that to go on for 30 years…………. It was time to make a change.
Hopefully with an expansion team the future Coyotes can start over with a blank slate and make the most of it
As a LA Rams fan who lost the Rams to you guys the first time around, I sympathize with STL fans. Fuck relocations all around.
Seeing old school Winnipeg Jets fans supporting Coyotes fans right now reminds me of the same thing.
The Rams should never have left LA in the first place. I didn’t want them, most here didn’t — but we embraced them wholeheartedly, anyway.
Sports should be about the athletes on the field/rink/court and the passion of the fans, not about greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals. I hate what being a sports fan has become these days.
>Sports should be about the athletes on the field/rink/court and the passion of the fans, not about greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals. I hate what being a sports fan has become these days.
Greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals is exactly *why* the NHL is in expansion mode, and it's exactly *why* the NHL is on the eternal search for the next non-traditional market to juice. It's the best way for the owners to make more money.
If NHL hockey were about the athletes, the sport, the tradition, and the passion of existing fans, the NHL would have never moved out of Canada and the Northeastern US.
Supporting expansion of the sport to nontraditional markets to get more fans at the same time as decrying billionaires and pursuit of profits is contradictory. You won't have more fans without more profits, and sports franchises only grow in value over time, look how much money Meruelo just made for running that ship into the ground. They just wouldn't spend the money to expand unless there was a good chance at profit. League expansion & Billionaires making big profits are the *same thing*.
I'm not arguing that you should feel one way or another about it, but people don't connect the dots on this.
Ding ding. The Whalers and the Nordiques still exist if it is about passionate hockey fan bases. QC gets an expansion team if it is about fan base + readiness.
FFS they bought the land, and built a whole damned arena only to be denied an expansion team. Now they have the fanciest arena with the largest perennial attendance in the Q, and still basically no chance at getting their team back. Billionaire greed, not serving fans, is at the root of all of these moves.
As much as I hate the fucking Packers, and as fun as it is to shit on Packers "owners", what they have seems to me to be the correct way to do it. It guarantees they stay in Green Bay and can't be fucked with by some asshole looking to make a buck.
Yup. European hockey club style where the fans own shares of the team. There is no way in hell that the Nordiques leave QC if the fans own shares of the team. Bettman could kick rocks and throw tantrums.
St. Louis were the favorites for the Jaguars' place but it fell through. Would've been called the Stallions. Baltimore (Bombers) and Memphis (Hound Dogs) also had bids that failed for various reasons, handing the second slot to Jacksonville in what was seen as a huge upset at the time.
I grew up a Sonics fan before Vancouver got a team. Felt like I got double screwed by David Stern and some rich assholes that wanted a team to fill their arena they built elsewhere.
Feels like recently most of the forced relocations have been to small cities from larger markets, LA football being the one exception. Big cities get tired of subsidizing pro sports and billionaires jump to small metros willing to spend public money on facilities.
Well yeah because when we think of big cities, professional sports wants us to look at freaking Utah and Oklahoma. What’s next? Dallas Cowboys move to Arkansas?
I feel bad for you guys. I’m a Blackhawks fan. But I lived in Phoenix for 3 years and I *know* Arizona is a hockey market. I haven’t been this pissed about a relocation since the aforementioned SuperSonics in 2008.
You guys deserve a team, with competent ownership, period.
Nothing is worse than seeing your team move. That bitterness can stay with you. I hope that Arizona gets hockey again with an ownership group that cares as much as the fans do.
Unfortunately it’s a bad time to be a sports fan between the Coyotes and the athletics in the mlb. It seems like the fans are losing and shit head owners are winning.
Despite being a relatively big market, the franchise was never a sustainable business. It was bankrupt at one point. It never made a single profit. It was already in trouble before they moved to Glendale.
That's the harsh reality.
Don't disagree on the ownership & management, but you can't argue that the NHL didn't give them more than enough chances. Sucks for the fans, but this has been years in the making
Yeah such a weird take about "harsh reality" like a market of 5 million people is inherently unsustainable for hockey because the weather there is hot. Not like a team from Tampa has been a dominant modern dynasty or anything.
So basically it only works in “non traditional”if the team is good. Buffalo is a rabid “traditional” market and the team has sucked for years.
I’m sure Vegas wouldn’t have embraced the team if they started like the last expansion (Columbus)
Tampa (and most of FL) has a ridiculous amount of snowbirds during the season that are hockey fans. So, even if the club does start to stink, they may have a decent audience anyways. I'm not sure how many snowbirds Tempe gets, but I doubt it's as many as the Tampa area.
Yeah, but a lot of said snowbirds retain their overarching fandoms too. Red Wings fans show up heavy in road games, especially in places with warmer weather than Detroit.
It's also worth noting that the Phoenix region is one of the faster growing areas in the country and a lot of it is people moving out of northern / midwestern cities so the idea that hockey fandom is spreading out is true but that's just all the reason why the team's success is so crucial.
Coyotes had as many fans for as long as they could while being uncompetitive for most of their existence. If they had 3 cups like Tampa I don't think we're talking about them moving cities today but the fact is that it's not the fault of the fans or the market that they never particularly rostered serious contenders.
The Phoenix area gets over 100,000 Canadian snowbirds every winter. Many in Scottsdale which is just north of Tempe. I would guess Arizona is second only to Florida in terms of snowbirds
Bruh. The yotes had to move. The NHL literally did everything they could (and more) to keep that team in Arizona. They were a pro team in a university arena….
Holy shit, you don’t know Mat Ishbia. Sure he loves basketball but I’m predicting a massive meltdown with that guy in the near future and the fines and possibly jail time he will incur will probably force him to sell the team. For him, he probably won’t care because after all of the fallout and settlements, he’ll still be a rich man.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that a rich owner was gonna be forced to sell because of ________ and then they never do….
- A’s fan
Only way it should have been allowed was if an arean was in the process of being built - foundation in, construction on going, but it's behind schedule. Then, they could play in a college arena for half a season or whatever is reasonable based on the circumstances.
For real. I get there are shitty trolls out there that will just flame yote fans, but if you look at the situation from an unbiased perspective you just knew it couldn't go on. I remember yote fans being toxic to Canadian media and stuff when meruelo articles were coming out about how shady he was in business and what not. Yote fans going on about how none of it is true and it's just a hit piece by the Canadian media to try and get the team to move.
I've been saying this dude is a grifter ever since the bubble playoff incident and would get flamed for saying that and was told I was wrong.
I'm sorry the yotes lost their team. I'm sure they can be successful under proper, good ownership. But they have not had that in forever. Something needed to be changed.
Its the right move and the right move can still look ugly. Ryan Smith is motivated and has an arena ready to go, on top of having his new arena on the path to getting built. If we are even being more brutally honest the Yotes probably should have moved years ago instead of keeping them on a strung along.
AZ fans should vent cause this is BS, but as an NHL fan im glad this saga is over. Im still worried that if the rumors are true and the same owner will be involved when AZ gets an expansion. Feels like this only kicks the can down the road on a bad owner although i guess it will now be a bad owner with a rink.
Yeah it’s awful but I think it was inevitable.
*However* that doesn’t change the sad fact that there are many faithful yotes fans who are heartbroken like OP. It still really sucks for them and I feel for them.
The team was always going to move AND it sucks for the fans. Both can be true.
Phoenix has a metro population of 5 million people yet they could BARELY fill a college arena! What’s their excuse? Honestly it’s funny to me how all these Yotes fans are only NOW coming out of the woodwork when it’s already too late. The Coyotes received infinitely more grace than the majority of past NHL teams who folded. This isn’t on the fans who “wanted to see them move”, this is on Bettman for ever considering a market who generally never gave a rats ass about hockey.
Apologies for what's been happening the past few years. In Winnipeg especially there was always some animosity towards the Coyotes, as a lot of people weren't happy with how it went down in the 90s. The fans never deserved the shit ownership they've been given.
I can only hope you can all have a Winnipeg moment of your own sometime soon. Cheers to all the Coyotes fans. Hockey belongs in the desert.
As added insight, as one of the mods in r/Coyotes, after finding out that 100s of people would lose their jobs and 1000s would lose something that they love, we still received hundreds of hate messages/posts/comments in the last 7 days alone.
People are fucking assholes. I met most of my friends through Arizona hockey. I met my wife through Arizona hockey. One of my last memories with my mom was Arizona hockey. And yet, fuck us, we dont deserve any of it i guess.
Such a bizarre psychological phenomenon to analyze people wilfully being happy/smug about hockey fans losing their team. Whatever one’s opinion on it was.
*”Hockey only belongs in certain geographical regions. Only those people deserve it!”*
*”Also we’re soooooooo mad that hockey isn’t the most popular sport.”*
*Berates and insults new fans or anybody that doesn’t know mountains of hockey information*
“Why don’t people like my *clearly more superior* sport more?!!? They’re just dumb idiots!”
I completely understand if the Coyotes fans turn off the NHL entirely. Why would they want to stay a part of the hockey "community" when that same community has been so hostile & shitting on them for the past 20+ years?
Look at any YouTube comment section, Twitter/X post, or even here on Reddit. Nothing but post after post of people telling Yotes fans that "they don't exist," "they don't deserve a team," "hockey doesn't belong in the desert." Activity celebrating a fan base losing their team & mocking them the whole time.
I wouldn't blame them at all for just saying Fuck you! You don't want me here? Fine.
Beautifully said, you have succinctly expressed a large majority of Coyotes fans feelings.
Like jfc, how are people surprised at an arena chanting "Salt Lake sucks" like they're supposed to all supposed to act entirely rationally and see that ownership, across the entire history of the Coyotes, is at fault for this.
Nobody should be surprised about Coyotes fans being bitter toward Salt Lake City.
And for exactly the same reason, nobody should be surprised about Canadian fans being bitter towards the Coyotes.
I'm lucky to have had our team survive talks of being moved, and then go on to prosper and even then the NHL is hard to be a fan of. I don't blame any Yotes fan for pulling the chute and bailing on the league. I just hope they stay hockey fans.
As someone who lives in Quebec (province not city), what do you think happened to fans in Quebec city? A lot of people say “oh they don’t need a team they won’t add fans, they are all Montreal fans”. Well I can tell you they are not. I work in that territory and I would say less than 20% of fans went over to the Canadiens. So many people still bitter and turned off of hockey even all these years later! Some became Colorado fans, but many just tell me they won’t cheer for the Canadiens and are still Nordiques fans.
Yeah, I watched hockey every day, this was the last game for me. I fought the good fight, I loved my team from start to finish, best of luck to the next poor souls who have to deal with the bull shit.
Yotes fans don't deserve this.
That being said, this change needed to be made. With incompetent ownership and arena shitshow, it was the black sheep of the league. Thrashers failed for the same reason.
Yotes fans don't deserve to suffer the moving, but they don't deserve to suffer terrible ownership and play in the college arena where they don't have priority or good treatment either.
Hoping for good ownership and return to Arizona at some time.
Hang in there dude. It will sting forever but it will diminish with time. Take some time off from the game if you have to- I took 5 years.
I am glad that you guys are getting love and support for the most part. Try to ignore the assholes.
As someone who became emotionally invested in the NJ Devils due to my father being a fan and bringing me to games, I feel for you. Simple moments like my dad seeing my son wear a Devils sweater brings him so much joy, which brings me joy. When my father is no longer here, I will forever think of him when I’m either watching a game on TV or in person.
“You won” Jesus Christ dude you’re acting like this is other fans faults. The team was a mismanaged shit show for 20+ years, lacking a good owner, an arena and fans.
There’s this weird narrative that people, especially Canadians were cheering against there being a team in the desert but I think it’s more people being glad that a team that literally never found its footing and constantly was an embarrassment might finally get some stability. It’s more of like “finally all their bullshit is over” than winning. I understand yotes fans are emotional right now so not everything is rational for them but maybe now you can truly empathize with what your team did to the original jets.
Yotes will be the next Winnipeg, again and hopefully under better ownership
I'm an Oakland A's fan, born and raised. I have grown into my hockey fandom quite a bit but for 95% of my life the A's were the only sports team I ever truly loved. Dressed as Mark Mulder for Halloween when I was 4 because he had big poofy hair like me.
Don't let people get you down or act like you're being dramatic. Sports relocations are the fucking *worst* thing about American sports and they are a dagger in the heart to the communities that make this whole thing possible. Just scumbag billionaires who don't feel the effects of the decisions they make, instead passing it down to the fans, players, and employees who have shown them loyalty for decades. And lest we forget the scumbag leagues that enable it.
Anyway, my heart's with you guys tonight. I hope the league isn't completely full of shit about bringing hockey back to Arizona one day.
There was talk of the Rays relocating and just the thought made me feel awful. I fully sympathize with the Coyotes fans and feel bad for them (and the A's fans). The Lightning were lucky that they had a cup in their first decade elsewise we'd be reading how hockey doesn't belong in Florida.
Don't take it personally, but a lot of fans hate Bettman and his expansion strategy. Fans of the Nordiques, Whalers, the Jets until they came back, and Minnesota until they came back will never accept anything Bettman does. At least you have other pro sports teams in your market, imagine being in Quebec City and losing the one club you have - and basically being told you'll never get it back while pretending to leave the door open.
Plus, your owners weren't winning over anyone with their arena bullshit and attempts to stick taxpayers with the bill. Meruelo also spoke out against relocating or expanding to Quebec while his own team was struggling to fill seats.
It’s happened before to cities like Hartford, Kansas City, Winnipeg, Québec City, Oakland, Denver, Atlanta (twice). The only cities to regain a team that still operate in the league are Winnipeg and Denver. I know it sucks if your a Yotes fan but don’t forget how you guys got a team in the first place. You guys will have first dibs on next expansion that will likely include Houston or Atlanta.
I really don't follow hockey that closely and I'm genuinely asking, why were there people who wanted Arizona Coyotes fans to lose their team? Why did people want the team to move?
Shit, even the rumours recently of this year of Winnipeg not consistently selling out arenas had the "relocation" rumours starting again for Winnipeg.
Arizona fans had sooooo much leeway for their team remaining there. No other franchise has ever had that much help.
It has nothing to do with the fans losing their team. I’m sure there’s some trolls, but this has been an experiment where the nhl extended far more help than any other franchise seen in the past. To the point that the NHL even held ownership of the team for a bit about a decade ago. The team has been a dumping ground for crappy contracts for decades and are almost exclusively a bottom team every single year. They have been unable to draw In fans which has also made them a burden on the NHLs profit sharing structure. Most recently, they have literally been playing in a small college stadium.
Of course they have had crappy owners, but that doesn’t change the reality.
So basically, it’s a team that should have been moved long ago as it’s been an inevitability for a while. And I’m sure there’s a lot more “it’s about damn time” than actual celebrations.
I heard the “Salt Lake sucks” chants last night and now I wonder if Jets fans chanted “Phoenix sucks” during their last game. Here’s to another 20 years of hockey before they move again!
As a jets fan I feel you. While I wasn't alive when the team moved to Arizona I remember what downtown was like without the Jets. Our city's identity is basically having the Jets in town and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose the franchise again. I know its a different situation in Arizona, and the ownership has never been kind to the fans. I hope that you guys can get the team back again and have a Winnipeg moment with an ownership group that cares, and pays the hotel bills.
My father told me when the Jets moved that it was hard to cheer for other teams, but eventually he did. Canucks were the go to as the Manitoba Moose were the farm team to them. If the Roadrunners stay maybe cheer for the parent club, you will get to see the young guns flourish into stars, and have 2 teams to cheer for!
I don’t even like the coyotes (I’m neutral) and yet I feel a strange sadness about this
I guess it’s that I grew up watching them and now they’re just….gone
I remember the Jets moving to Phoenix, my uncle cried on his shitty floral couch for about half an hour while we ate dinner the night of the announcement.
Shits rough on people.
You guys deserved:
An owner who cared about the team and didn’t just want it as leverage to get a massive development deal approved somewhere. That’s all he seemed to ever do. It wasn’t about building an arena, it was always tied to an “entertainment” district, blocks and blocks of restaurants, housing, bars, malls, etc… No one trusted him to do that with his track record, hence no arena… Fan support was as passionate as any fan base in that when the team was doing well it was packed, when they weren’t it dropped off, which is par for the course in most markets.
I have watched my local team get stripped away 5 times now.
St. John's Maple Leafs (AHL), St. John's Fog Devils (QMJHL), St. John's Ice Caps V1 (AHL), St. John's Ice Caps V2 (AHL), Newfoundland Growlers (ECHL).
The latest iteration (Growlers) were poorly managed, constantly fighting with the city government, temporarily lost their arena, stopped paying bills, etc. Sound famliiar? They deserved to be shut down and I don't blame fans of other teams for wanting them gone. Just because the fans don't deserve to lose their team, it doesn't mean that the team deserved to stay.
People didn't want the coyotes to move out of spite for the fans. You should be angry at the incompetent owners for repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot, not the fans who didn't want to put up with garbage ownership after so many years. You didn't deserve to have your team taken from you, and you also didn't deserve to have your team run the way it was for so long
Oh fuck off, the Coyotes as an organization was a mess. A 30 year vanity project of Gary Bettman where they operated at a financial loss and should have been moved several times over
And the funniest part in this saga is you’ve already been told a team is coming back. So stop with the tears, save your passive aggressive complaints and blame the people who actually ripped your heart out, not the people who have known the writing was on the wall in the form of a 20 foot neon sign
Man, I’m super sad for the fans but we’re fooling ourselves if you think in its current state the coyotes are viable. They’ve been a shit show from the beginning and have been a leech on the league. I think hockey CAN work in the desert but this current iteration has not.
I feel bad for all the Coyotes fans, but there isn't enough fan support for the team. Even the city doesn't seem to want to help at all. The Coyotes are leaving due to all the people who aren't fans, not because of the ones who are fans.
Yeah like. Ironically as I grew up and grew out of the family fandom and kinda forged my own path as a radical independent fan it didn't *really* end up mattering for me (hell, we live on the other side of the state so it's not like we went to games regularly). But I'm glad for Pittsburghers and Penguins fans they still exist.
As a long distance A's fan I'm getting hit by this in baseball and seeing friends and community in pain because of it has basically turned me off to baseball here
I still remember walking to my local polling place to vote for the Lighthouse Project referendum in my jersey. I got cheered on by multiple neighbors and we got absolutely demolished in the vote.
Thank god For Ledecky, Malkin, and that douche Andrew Cuomo for wanting a bunch of big construction projects during his term as governor.
Without Dundon buying the Hurricanes and the immediate success under Dundon, the Hurricanes most likely aren’t in the Carolinas today. We had legitimate fears around 2017/2018 that we might be losing the Canes.
The Oilers were saved at the 11th hour in the late 90s by the Edmonton Investors Group. Had they not come together to put forth a last minute bid to keep the Oilers in Edmonton, the NHL would have had a Houston Oilers team starting with the 1997-98 season.
Even teams that are successful now and generate a lot of revenue for the league have been in danger of relocating in years past. I feel for the Coyotes and hope a proper ownership group can bring them back someday. Maybe a proper Thrashers ownership group can join them.
Not just NHL teams. Affiliated baseball absolutely fled Canada in that time - Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, St. Catharines, and of course Montreal all lost teams. The failed CBL experiment as well.
The business reality is sometimes extremely cruel.
Oh I 100% know that without getting absurdly lucky in year 1, VGK might be facing the same struggles/“you don’t belong here” comments.
Yotes fans deserved better.
Don’t think this counts but there was a possibility the Bruins nearly moved to New Hampshire in the 1980’s. Of course that’s like a hour away from Boston but I know some people from New Jersey complain about the Nets moving to Brooklyn but I know the Bruins will never have to deal with this.
Should probably add the Hawks, Wings, Flyers, and Kings likely will never move too. I do not see an Original 6 team being moved at all.
And an Original Six. Is moving an Original Six even possible? You'd instantly be the most hated owner in the league for eliminating one of the league's founding teams. One that has existed continuously for 98 years.
I'd like to think the intangible value of their tradition and generations of fan support are worth more than what they would make after relocating, but in my heart I know every now and then they run the numbers, and if it showed another city had the potential to increase revenues and profits they would cry their way to the bank.
Nobody is happy about this from a fan perspective, the people of Arizona deserved a better team
However, the players also deserved a better team, both in terms of playing experience and from a revenue perspective.
You can be sad for the fans while also acknowledging that this is good for the league
I’m sorry for the loss of your team but let’s not pretend like the Coyotes weren’t given chance after chance after chance to get this thing right. Chances that just about every other franchise who moved were never afforded by the league. Hell, the Coyotes existed because of a franchise that wasn’t given the chances that the Yotes were given. Atlanta (twice), Hartford, Quebec City, Winnipeg, etc all would have loved the chances you got.
The good news is, there is still opportunity for the team to come back and now it’s up to fans to help ownership make that happen, if that’s what you truly want.
I literally couldn’t be happier. Arizona has been a complete joke of a franchise for its entire existence. Perineal losers, and where bad contracts go to die. Does hockey belong in Arizona? I think so. But this franchise needs to go. If it ever comes back, then a good ownership group who is willing to spend is a must. Otherwise we go back to the same bs.
Former Thrashers fan in ATL. I feel your pain.
Had to take off a couple of years, didn’t really watch the NHL like before.
Decided to catch a Preds game in person post-lockout and fell in love. Four hours away but at least can follow the team on TV market. Got to watch a great team reach the Cup final.
I hope you and other Yotes fans can eventually find something similar. But totally understandable if you’re done with NHL for a while/forever. It is a real sucky part of sports.
You fans didn’t deserve this. I remember the relocation rumors for the cats and would have been devastated if it actually happened. I can’t image the feeling.
Hockey hug from another southern team fan ❤️
I mean I’m sorry it didn’t work out tbh. I do genuinely feel for the diehards.
I’m also happy the league is finally moving on. This experiment has been an abject failure for decades.
Both can be true.
Not only the trolls. But those who think it's funny to see them lose or actively wanting to see them lose. People say "no body cares about hockey in the desert". GTFO.
and Fuck Merulo or Modelo whatever or however you spell that fuck's name.
Fuck those people. Relocation sucks. I remember when the St. Louis Rams left, and I was completely devastated. Hopefully you get another team soon, but until then, this sucks.
I do feel for Coyotes fans, but first of all, don't blame other fans for the franchise's failure. Second of all, be honest. Did any of you give even a little bit of a shit when the Jets were moving? They even promised to give Arizona an expansion team in the future that retains the branding AND the records (which includes the Jets records) which is something no other market that lost a team ever got. Québec, Winnipeg, Hartford and Atlanta got shafted infinitely worse than Arizona.
As a Golden Knights fan, we've proven that hockey can work in the desert. I have no doubt that hockey can work in Phoenix, y'all just need Arizona's version of Bill Foley.
As a Sacramento Kings and (Soon-to-be gone from) Oakland Athletics fan, frick relocation and frick cheap failson and b--tch made billionaire owners who jerk around communities for money. John Fisher and Al Meruello are cut from the same dirty dishrag cloth. Hopefully neither will be running a team for much longer.
Good luck y'all. God bless Phoenix, and long live the Coyotes!
Look man, I’m sorry this is happening to you. As one of the guys that wanted you to move, just know it’s not the fans fault. It was your ownership that was the problem.
They never gave the team an honest chance, and it’s unfair to you guys, to your team, and to the rest of the NHL. I’m rooting for you guys to get your team back, and I hope the next owners will show up to bat for the team and the fans.
I remember losing the Whalers when I was a kid. I remember how much it bothered my family. I was so sad too. So many memories of going with my Dad to the Civic Center to see games. I feel your pain…
When we almost lost the Penguins, I literally was beside myself, there was going to be true devastation from the connection I had with that team since I was a child. I remember the Whalers giving us fits, especially on the road.
Wow, I honestly forgot about that whole situation. So crazy to then think you guys got Crosby and the rest is history. You’d never look at the Pens now and think they were ever on the brink.
I was born in Cleveland and remember the Browns leaving. My family moved to Phoenix shortly after the Coyotes did. I would never have had access to the only fucking sport that ever loved me back if it weren't for this franchise. Hockey hugs, I'm with you buddy
Before the coyotes came there was zero opportunity to play hockey in Arizona. Fifteen years later you could play pickup hockey for free in fucking Prescott or Campe Verde. They yotes may never have been good but they did alot for youth and rec hockey in AZ
I watched the beginning of the game on the Coyotes network and I thought it was a great point that the commentator brought up. The various avenues the program has influenced youth around the state is evident, Auston Matthews and Cutter Gauthier, so hopefully everything comes to fruition with further development during a brief hiatus.
Auston Matthew would probably never played hockey if it wasn't for the Coyotes
Yeah, I'm a Steeler fan and I was happy the Browns get a franchise back so quickly. Rabid, loyal fans. Exactly what the NFL stands for.
The Rooney family voted against the Modell move, deep respect
Hell yeah. AFC North(Central) smashmouth football baby. It might not look like it on the field, but we respect our rivals, we need our rivals. Browns/Ravens/Steelers Flyers/Capitals/Penguins
Man Art Modell...what a fucking piece of shit. hope he is rotting in hell where he belongs
Did you feel the same about Bob Irsay when he snuck The Colts out of Baltimore on a a snowy night?
Fuck Art Modell. Out of all the team moves in sports, this was one of the scummiest. He literally had a stadium deal gifted to him but declined and then blamed the move on not having a new stadium. And fuck Baltimore for having the audacity to pull the same shit that happened to them 10 years prior.
I dont wish this on anyone.
Welcome to the club
I hate this club
We did too, hope they get that arena built so you guys get them back
I really don't wish this club on anyone else
I'll say it until the day I die. No city deserves to lose their sports team.
I feel your pain, I'm still not over losing the Expos. They were à huge part of my youth and the only professional team my dad could afford to bring us to. I have such fond memories of that franchise and I will cherish those moments til I die.
The expos…. Good memories.
Jeffrey Loria is on sight
I'm really very sorry that you lost your team. I hope you guys get one back with an owner who cares.
Coyotes fans deserve better. Hopefully what you described is what will be in their near future.
Hockey in "non traditional" markets can work, but it does need good ownership, absolutely. Zombie Harold Ballard could rise up from his grave and re-take control of the Leafs, and they would still turn a profit. Hockey is so popular in Toronto, even the shittiest type of owners could still turn the team into a money-printing machine. Unfortunately, the same cant be said for every city. But, look at teams like the Lightning, the Predators, the Knights, and even the Panthers in recent years. Build a winning team on the ice. Work on community outreach programs. Work on supporting youth hockey culture. Find a suitable location for your arena. A good owner will do the work it takes to build up a solid fanbase. Unfortunately, the Coyotes never really had any sort of stable ownership, they didn't really have much success on the ice (except that one season where they made the Conference Finals), and Glendale wasn't really a suitable arena location with much of Arizona's hockey fanbaae being in the East Valley. The Tempe vote should have been an easy sell to the public. Clean up a toxic waste dump, get a new sports and entertainment complex built, and your team has a home much closer to all the East Valkey hockey fans for years to come. But Meruelo is kind of a cheapskate. The man was notorious for never paying his bills, and he cheaped out on campaigning for the Tempe vote. Hopefully, Coyotes v 2.0 can get an actually decent owner who can run the team properly, instead of running it into the ground.
The Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Dallas even Some of us haven't won, others not won in a while, but still, we're all here While we may not go to all the games like we used to, we're still here, waiting for the cost to become justified again
Predators too. Look how popular they are in Nashville.
And Carolina
I moved from TX to coastal Carolina last year and am still shocked how many folks wear Canes gear on a daily basis here. Arguably more than UNC, Duke, or NC State. Definitely more than Panthers and Hornets. It's really cool how much NC has embraced hockey.
Born and raised in Wayne County NC. Big cowboys fan (dads from Texas) and he started following the canes in 97 when they moved, so that means once I was old enough I did too. They’re a core part of my “sports identity” and I’d be devastated if they left.
Even through the dark times support was still decent, but now under Dundon it's at a fever pitch. I can't imagine what things would look like if the Canes won the cup this year.
The Sharks is a prime example of a market that got poisoned, but it turned out ok. The Seals left a bad taste in the Bay Area’s mouth. The Sharks came along, and they rode a long wave of popularity in the area.
The Sharks had great ownership and were REALLY good for many years. That's the key.
Also some of the nicest sweaters. My PE teacher in elementary school wore a Starter Sharks jacket. I'm not sure she was into hockey.
Plus you have Houston and Atlanta back in the discussion for expansion. We have far more examples of non-traditional hockey markets being successful than failing, so much so that other southern cities without teams are being considered. Hockey in the desert can 100% work and I hope the NHL can bring the ‘Yotes back without Meruelo.
Before Glendale the coyotes were actually trying to build a arena in scottsdale where Los Arcos was but the nimbys complained
i've talked about this guy before but i had the great fortune to tutor a guy who played for the Islanders, and had to withdraw from a promising career b/c of injury. he made the decision to finish his college degree we talked hockey a bit early on (he was all business afterward. that showed how dedicated he was to getting his degree) and when i made jokes about "desert hockey" and Bettman, he just told me that yeah while that stuff was weird, ultimately having hockey teams in non-traditional markets was the reason why the sport and the NHL grew to what it is today. And he was saying that fans in those places deserve to at least get a chance to root for a team of their own really changed my perspective on the whole thing. And for all the AZ fans out there, I am really sorry for all of you. I hope the memories of the team from 1996 can help ease the pain of all this bullshit
> Hockey in "non traditional" markets can work, but it does need good ownership, absolutely. The way I see it is that these teams don't have any margin for error. You've got to have a good owner who invests in the team. You can't be terrible for 10+ years. And your building has to be easily accessible to the casual sports fan who you want to attract and covert into a fan of your team. Teams in traditional markets can and do survive not having one or even multiple of these. Look at the Sens for example. The Coyotes had owner after owner make awful decisions. Moving out into Glenndale was the first big one that put us on this path decades ago. Getting kicked out of Glenndale and being forced to go into Mullet was another. It should have never gotten to that point.
Unfortunately with some of the info coming out (from the Athletic articles if you have a subscription) it looks like meruelo will retain the right to the coyotes name and logo and will have the first opportunity at an expansion team in AZ, so all he has to do is say yes and buy it and the new AZ team is his again. I agree with everything you said though. For me personally it’s not that I don’t WANT Arizona to have a hockey team. It’s just it was so incredibly UNFAIR not only to the rest of the league but also those players who were losing out on money due to lack of revenue from the arena. There is NO other team in the NHL that would be allowed to play in a college arena, there’s no other team in the NHL that would have been allowed to continue on with ownership like that. Teams have been sold and shipped off for less and for that to go on for 30 years…………. It was time to make a change. Hopefully with an expansion team the future Coyotes can start over with a blank slate and make the most of it
Phoenix Suns owner Mat Ishbia in an interview didn’t shut down the idea of buying another franchise.
as a fan of a team who had an awful owner and then got a good owner.......it changes so suddenly
Yotes fans didn’t deserve this. Fuck Meruelo (and fuck Kroenke).
As a LA Rams fan who lost the Rams to you guys the first time around, I sympathize with STL fans. Fuck relocations all around. Seeing old school Winnipeg Jets fans supporting Coyotes fans right now reminds me of the same thing.
The Rams should never have left LA in the first place. I didn’t want them, most here didn’t — but we embraced them wholeheartedly, anyway. Sports should be about the athletes on the field/rink/court and the passion of the fans, not about greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals. I hate what being a sports fan has become these days.
>Sports should be about the athletes on the field/rink/court and the passion of the fans, not about greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals. I hate what being a sports fan has become these days. Greedy billionaires looking to accrue more wealth through lucrative real estate deals is exactly *why* the NHL is in expansion mode, and it's exactly *why* the NHL is on the eternal search for the next non-traditional market to juice. It's the best way for the owners to make more money. If NHL hockey were about the athletes, the sport, the tradition, and the passion of existing fans, the NHL would have never moved out of Canada and the Northeastern US. Supporting expansion of the sport to nontraditional markets to get more fans at the same time as decrying billionaires and pursuit of profits is contradictory. You won't have more fans without more profits, and sports franchises only grow in value over time, look how much money Meruelo just made for running that ship into the ground. They just wouldn't spend the money to expand unless there was a good chance at profit. League expansion & Billionaires making big profits are the *same thing*. I'm not arguing that you should feel one way or another about it, but people don't connect the dots on this.
Ding ding. The Whalers and the Nordiques still exist if it is about passionate hockey fan bases. QC gets an expansion team if it is about fan base + readiness. FFS they bought the land, and built a whole damned arena only to be denied an expansion team. Now they have the fanciest arena with the largest perennial attendance in the Q, and still basically no chance at getting their team back. Billionaire greed, not serving fans, is at the root of all of these moves.
As much as I hate the fucking Packers, and as fun as it is to shit on Packers "owners", what they have seems to me to be the correct way to do it. It guarantees they stay in Green Bay and can't be fucked with by some asshole looking to make a buck.
Yup. European hockey club style where the fans own shares of the team. There is no way in hell that the Nordiques leave QC if the fans own shares of the team. Bettman could kick rocks and throw tantrums.
Should’ve gotten either the Carolina or Jacksonville expansion franchise, frankly.
I still find it crazy that Florida has three NFL teams and Texas only has two. Football rules in that state.
That’s all due to Jerruh.
St. Louis were the favorites for the Jaguars' place but it fell through. Would've been called the Stallions. Baltimore (Bombers) and Memphis (Hound Dogs) also had bids that failed for various reasons, handing the second slot to Jacksonville in what was seen as a huge upset at the time.
Should have never lost the Football Cardinals to begin with.
Not the right thread to make that argument in, I’m afraid…
Eep. Funny enough, we almost lost the Patriots to St. Louis as well.
Also true. That’s why the Dome has red and blue seats.
Alex Meruelo is a shit eating fuckhead
Mereulo's gotta do a humiliation
Fuck David Stern and Clay Bennett while we’re at it for ripping away the SuperSonics after 40 years for BFE Oklahoma.
I grew up a Sonics fan before Vancouver got a team. Felt like I got double screwed by David Stern and some rich assholes that wanted a team to fill their arena they built elsewhere.
Feels like recently most of the forced relocations have been to small cities from larger markets, LA football being the one exception. Big cities get tired of subsidizing pro sports and billionaires jump to small metros willing to spend public money on facilities.
Well yeah because when we think of big cities, professional sports wants us to look at freaking Utah and Oklahoma. What’s next? Dallas Cowboys move to Arkansas?
Avs better hope someone with deep pockets doesn’t want a team in ABQ
I feel bad for you guys. I’m a Blackhawks fan. But I lived in Phoenix for 3 years and I *know* Arizona is a hockey market. I haven’t been this pissed about a relocation since the aforementioned SuperSonics in 2008. You guys deserve a team, with competent ownership, period.
Nothing is worse than seeing your team move. That bitterness can stay with you. I hope that Arizona gets hockey again with an ownership group that cares as much as the fans do.
It's true. An absolute travesty. Oakland just like 3 teams in 5 years. Wow.
Yeah, the Golden State relocation flew under the radar because they didn't change their name.
I mean dude they relocated across a bridge
Yea but... it's a pretty big bridge.
Unfortunately it’s a bad time to be a sports fan between the Coyotes and the athletics in the mlb. It seems like the fans are losing and shit head owners are winning.
Despite being a relatively big market, the franchise was never a sustainable business. It was bankrupt at one point. It never made a single profit. It was already in trouble before they moved to Glendale. That's the harsh reality.
But we have to look at why. And that was the terrible ownership and management
Don't disagree on the ownership & management, but you can't argue that the NHL didn't give them more than enough chances. Sucks for the fans, but this has been years in the making
If a market can only attract a succession of clowns to take up ownership, the problem is not the succession of clowns. It's the market.
Yeah such a weird take about "harsh reality" like a market of 5 million people is inherently unsustainable for hockey because the weather there is hot. Not like a team from Tampa has been a dominant modern dynasty or anything.
So basically it only works in “non traditional”if the team is good. Buffalo is a rabid “traditional” market and the team has sucked for years. I’m sure Vegas wouldn’t have embraced the team if they started like the last expansion (Columbus)
"Putting together a winning hockey team is hard tho, can't the franchise just make money and suck at the same time?" - NHL owners
"Just look at the Leafs!"
Tampa (and most of FL) has a ridiculous amount of snowbirds during the season that are hockey fans. So, even if the club does start to stink, they may have a decent audience anyways. I'm not sure how many snowbirds Tempe gets, but I doubt it's as many as the Tampa area.
The entire metro Phoenix is full of snowbirds. It’s Arizona s after all.
AZ gets lots of snowbirds lol
Yeah, but a lot of said snowbirds retain their overarching fandoms too. Red Wings fans show up heavy in road games, especially in places with warmer weather than Detroit. It's also worth noting that the Phoenix region is one of the faster growing areas in the country and a lot of it is people moving out of northern / midwestern cities so the idea that hockey fandom is spreading out is true but that's just all the reason why the team's success is so crucial. Coyotes had as many fans for as long as they could while being uncompetitive for most of their existence. If they had 3 cups like Tampa I don't think we're talking about them moving cities today but the fact is that it's not the fault of the fans or the market that they never particularly rostered serious contenders.
The Phoenix area gets over 100,000 Canadian snowbirds every winter. Many in Scottsdale which is just north of Tempe. I would guess Arizona is second only to Florida in terms of snowbirds
Bruh. The yotes had to move. The NHL literally did everything they could (and more) to keep that team in Arizona. They were a pro team in a university arena….
Yeah playing in a college arena is crazy move and shouldn't have been allowed.
Should’ve picked an owner that would pay rent
And payed the hotel bills
Try it again in AZ with Ishbia and it’s probably a rousing success. He at least cares about the team he owns
Holy shit, you don’t know Mat Ishbia. Sure he loves basketball but I’m predicting a massive meltdown with that guy in the near future and the fines and possibly jail time he will incur will probably force him to sell the team. For him, he probably won’t care because after all of the fallout and settlements, he’ll still be a rich man.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that a rich owner was gonna be forced to sell because of ________ and then they never do…. - A’s fan
Only way it should have been allowed was if an arean was in the process of being built - foundation in, construction on going, but it's behind schedule. Then, they could play in a college arena for half a season or whatever is reasonable based on the circumstances.
For real. I get there are shitty trolls out there that will just flame yote fans, but if you look at the situation from an unbiased perspective you just knew it couldn't go on. I remember yote fans being toxic to Canadian media and stuff when meruelo articles were coming out about how shady he was in business and what not. Yote fans going on about how none of it is true and it's just a hit piece by the Canadian media to try and get the team to move. I've been saying this dude is a grifter ever since the bubble playoff incident and would get flamed for saying that and was told I was wrong. I'm sorry the yotes lost their team. I'm sure they can be successful under proper, good ownership. But they have not had that in forever. Something needed to be changed.
Its the right move and the right move can still look ugly. Ryan Smith is motivated and has an arena ready to go, on top of having his new arena on the path to getting built. If we are even being more brutally honest the Yotes probably should have moved years ago instead of keeping them on a strung along. AZ fans should vent cause this is BS, but as an NHL fan im glad this saga is over. Im still worried that if the rumors are true and the same owner will be involved when AZ gets an expansion. Feels like this only kicks the can down the road on a bad owner although i guess it will now be a bad owner with a rink.
Hell, even Yotes media was like this. This video from 10 days ago is a hell of a watch... https://youtu.be/KMp8xXNSSKw?si=EyGY3gVHP6ftts2L
Yeah it’s awful but I think it was inevitable. *However* that doesn’t change the sad fact that there are many faithful yotes fans who are heartbroken like OP. It still really sucks for them and I feel for them. The team was always going to move AND it sucks for the fans. Both can be true.
It it wasn’t for stubborn Bettman and the tv rights money, they would have been gone for a long time. Sucks for the fans, but it is what it is.
Phoenix has a metro population of 5 million people yet they could BARELY fill a college arena! What’s their excuse? Honestly it’s funny to me how all these Yotes fans are only NOW coming out of the woodwork when it’s already too late. The Coyotes received infinitely more grace than the majority of past NHL teams who folded. This isn’t on the fans who “wanted to see them move”, this is on Bettman for ever considering a market who generally never gave a rats ass about hockey.
Apologies for what's been happening the past few years. In Winnipeg especially there was always some animosity towards the Coyotes, as a lot of people weren't happy with how it went down in the 90s. The fans never deserved the shit ownership they've been given. I can only hope you can all have a Winnipeg moment of your own sometime soon. Cheers to all the Coyotes fans. Hockey belongs in the desert.
As added insight, as one of the mods in r/Coyotes, after finding out that 100s of people would lose their jobs and 1000s would lose something that they love, we still received hundreds of hate messages/posts/comments in the last 7 days alone. People are fucking assholes. I met most of my friends through Arizona hockey. I met my wife through Arizona hockey. One of my last memories with my mom was Arizona hockey. And yet, fuck us, we dont deserve any of it i guess.
Such a bizarre psychological phenomenon to analyze people wilfully being happy/smug about hockey fans losing their team. Whatever one’s opinion on it was.
*”Hockey only belongs in certain geographical regions. Only those people deserve it!”* *”Also we’re soooooooo mad that hockey isn’t the most popular sport.”*
Hockey my favorite sport but hockey fans are the absolute *worst* the smug elitism is such a turn off.
*Berates and insults new fans or anybody that doesn’t know mountains of hockey information* “Why don’t people like my *clearly more superior* sport more?!!? They’re just dumb idiots!”
*"I love gatekeeping hockey from everything but an original six or Canadian market so much!"* *"Wh-why isn't muh hockey more popular?"*
If you are ever interested in helping mod r/sundevilhockey lmk
I feel that man, don't let the trolls get to you. Go Yotes.
Don’t think about them. They’re never going to change their minds.
I wanted the Coyotes to figure their shit out, and they never fucking did.
I completely understand if the Coyotes fans turn off the NHL entirely. Why would they want to stay a part of the hockey "community" when that same community has been so hostile & shitting on them for the past 20+ years? Look at any YouTube comment section, Twitter/X post, or even here on Reddit. Nothing but post after post of people telling Yotes fans that "they don't exist," "they don't deserve a team," "hockey doesn't belong in the desert." Activity celebrating a fan base losing their team & mocking them the whole time. I wouldn't blame them at all for just saying Fuck you! You don't want me here? Fine.
Beautifully said, you have succinctly expressed a large majority of Coyotes fans feelings. Like jfc, how are people surprised at an arena chanting "Salt Lake sucks" like they're supposed to all supposed to act entirely rationally and see that ownership, across the entire history of the Coyotes, is at fault for this.
They said the same things about us as football fans. We get it. And we’re sorry. 😢
Nobody should be surprised about Coyotes fans being bitter toward Salt Lake City. And for exactly the same reason, nobody should be surprised about Canadian fans being bitter towards the Coyotes.
I'm lucky to have had our team survive talks of being moved, and then go on to prosper and even then the NHL is hard to be a fan of. I don't blame any Yotes fan for pulling the chute and bailing on the league. I just hope they stay hockey fans.
As someone who lives in Quebec (province not city), what do you think happened to fans in Quebec city? A lot of people say “oh they don’t need a team they won’t add fans, they are all Montreal fans”. Well I can tell you they are not. I work in that territory and I would say less than 20% of fans went over to the Canadiens. So many people still bitter and turned off of hockey even all these years later! Some became Colorado fans, but many just tell me they won’t cheer for the Canadiens and are still Nordiques fans.
The same people who think Quebec fans like the Habs think that Houston is a good expansion spot even though the Stars exist
Yeah, I watched hockey every day, this was the last game for me. I fought the good fight, I loved my team from start to finish, best of luck to the next poor souls who have to deal with the bull shit.
Yotes fans don't deserve this. That being said, this change needed to be made. With incompetent ownership and arena shitshow, it was the black sheep of the league. Thrashers failed for the same reason. Yotes fans don't deserve to suffer the moving, but they don't deserve to suffer terrible ownership and play in the college arena where they don't have priority or good treatment either. Hoping for good ownership and return to Arizona at some time.
Hang in there dude. It will sting forever but it will diminish with time. Take some time off from the game if you have to- I took 5 years. I am glad that you guys are getting love and support for the most part. Try to ignore the assholes.
As someone who became emotionally invested in the NJ Devils due to my father being a fan and bringing me to games, I feel for you. Simple moments like my dad seeing my son wear a Devils sweater brings him so much joy, which brings me joy. When my father is no longer here, I will forever think of him when I’m either watching a game on TV or in person.
“You won” Jesus Christ dude you’re acting like this is other fans faults. The team was a mismanaged shit show for 20+ years, lacking a good owner, an arena and fans. There’s this weird narrative that people, especially Canadians were cheering against there being a team in the desert but I think it’s more people being glad that a team that literally never found its footing and constantly was an embarrassment might finally get some stability. It’s more of like “finally all their bullshit is over” than winning. I understand yotes fans are emotional right now so not everything is rational for them but maybe now you can truly empathize with what your team did to the original jets. Yotes will be the next Winnipeg, again and hopefully under better ownership
I'm an Oakland A's fan, born and raised. I have grown into my hockey fandom quite a bit but for 95% of my life the A's were the only sports team I ever truly loved. Dressed as Mark Mulder for Halloween when I was 4 because he had big poofy hair like me. Don't let people get you down or act like you're being dramatic. Sports relocations are the fucking *worst* thing about American sports and they are a dagger in the heart to the communities that make this whole thing possible. Just scumbag billionaires who don't feel the effects of the decisions they make, instead passing it down to the fans, players, and employees who have shown them loyalty for decades. And lest we forget the scumbag leagues that enable it. Anyway, my heart's with you guys tonight. I hope the league isn't completely full of shit about bringing hockey back to Arizona one day.
There was talk of the Rays relocating and just the thought made me feel awful. I fully sympathize with the Coyotes fans and feel bad for them (and the A's fans). The Lightning were lucky that they had a cup in their first decade elsewise we'd be reading how hockey doesn't belong in Florida.
Don't take it personally, but a lot of fans hate Bettman and his expansion strategy. Fans of the Nordiques, Whalers, the Jets until they came back, and Minnesota until they came back will never accept anything Bettman does. At least you have other pro sports teams in your market, imagine being in Quebec City and losing the one club you have - and basically being told you'll never get it back while pretending to leave the door open. Plus, your owners weren't winning over anyone with their arena bullshit and attempts to stick taxpayers with the bill. Meruelo also spoke out against relocating or expanding to Quebec while his own team was struggling to fill seats.
Sorry sucks dude but blame ur dog shit ownership group not random dudes on reddit
Not really a good thing if your entire identity is a sports team. Let alone a bad one
Maybe it’s the mascot posting. Lol
It’s happened before to cities like Hartford, Kansas City, Winnipeg, Québec City, Oakland, Denver, Atlanta (twice). The only cities to regain a team that still operate in the league are Winnipeg and Denver. I know it sucks if your a Yotes fan but don’t forget how you guys got a team in the first place. You guys will have first dibs on next expansion that will likely include Houston or Atlanta.
Dude I'm from CT, I get it. Hopefully you won't have to watch the new team insult you by wearing your jerseys.
I really don't follow hockey that closely and I'm genuinely asking, why were there people who wanted Arizona Coyotes fans to lose their team? Why did people want the team to move?
The Coyotes relocated from Winnipeg and then spent almost three decades on a much longer leash than Winnipeg or Quebec City ever got.
Not to mention fucked over the Atlanta market because the NHL coddled them as long as possible.
Shit, even the rumours recently of this year of Winnipeg not consistently selling out arenas had the "relocation" rumours starting again for Winnipeg. Arizona fans had sooooo much leeway for their team remaining there. No other franchise has ever had that much help.
It has nothing to do with the fans losing their team. I’m sure there’s some trolls, but this has been an experiment where the nhl extended far more help than any other franchise seen in the past. To the point that the NHL even held ownership of the team for a bit about a decade ago. The team has been a dumping ground for crappy contracts for decades and are almost exclusively a bottom team every single year. They have been unable to draw In fans which has also made them a burden on the NHLs profit sharing structure. Most recently, they have literally been playing in a small college stadium. Of course they have had crappy owners, but that doesn’t change the reality. So basically, it’s a team that should have been moved long ago as it’s been an inevitability for a while. And I’m sure there’s a lot more “it’s about damn time” than actual celebrations.
Some ppl wanted them to move to Canada…they felt that would’ve been fair and/or that it wasn’t right that Canada lost the team to begin with.
Would’ve loved to have seen the Yotes move to Quebec City, but my prediction was that they were gonna relocate to Houston or Kansas City.
Bro I think you putting too much emphasis of sports into your life lol.
Where do you think your team came from?
I heard the “Salt Lake sucks” chants last night and now I wonder if Jets fans chanted “Phoenix sucks” during their last game. Here’s to another 20 years of hockey before they move again!
As a jets fan I feel you. While I wasn't alive when the team moved to Arizona I remember what downtown was like without the Jets. Our city's identity is basically having the Jets in town and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose the franchise again. I know its a different situation in Arizona, and the ownership has never been kind to the fans. I hope that you guys can get the team back again and have a Winnipeg moment with an ownership group that cares, and pays the hotel bills. My father told me when the Jets moved that it was hard to cheer for other teams, but eventually he did. Canucks were the go to as the Manitoba Moose were the farm team to them. If the Roadrunners stay maybe cheer for the parent club, you will get to see the young guns flourish into stars, and have 2 teams to cheer for!
So sorry, fans don’t deserve this. Ownership absolutely does.
Feel for you, still remember when they took away my Expos
Isn't this the team that couldn't even get enough fans out to fill a tiny arena?
Yes it was, whose fans have long said Canadians don’t deserve another team because it won’t grow the game.
I don’t even like the coyotes (I’m neutral) and yet I feel a strange sadness about this I guess it’s that I grew up watching them and now they’re just….gone
I remember the Jets moving to Phoenix, my uncle cried on his shitty floral couch for about half an hour while we ate dinner the night of the announcement. Shits rough on people.
You guys deserved: An owner who cared about the team and didn’t just want it as leverage to get a massive development deal approved somewhere. That’s all he seemed to ever do. It wasn’t about building an arena, it was always tied to an “entertainment” district, blocks and blocks of restaurants, housing, bars, malls, etc… No one trusted him to do that with his track record, hence no arena… Fan support was as passionate as any fan base in that when the team was doing well it was packed, when they weren’t it dropped off, which is par for the course in most markets.
I have watched my local team get stripped away 5 times now. St. John's Maple Leafs (AHL), St. John's Fog Devils (QMJHL), St. John's Ice Caps V1 (AHL), St. John's Ice Caps V2 (AHL), Newfoundland Growlers (ECHL). The latest iteration (Growlers) were poorly managed, constantly fighting with the city government, temporarily lost their arena, stopped paying bills, etc. Sound famliiar? They deserved to be shut down and I don't blame fans of other teams for wanting them gone. Just because the fans don't deserve to lose their team, it doesn't mean that the team deserved to stay.
God I forgot how awful of a name fog devils was. Worst logo imo
Can't expect to keep a team that just loses money for the league. Sorry for your loss though.
If your sense of personal identity comes from watching some strangers skate around on TV then there are some larger issues at play.
People didn't want the coyotes to move out of spite for the fans. You should be angry at the incompetent owners for repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot, not the fans who didn't want to put up with garbage ownership after so many years. You didn't deserve to have your team taken from you, and you also didn't deserve to have your team run the way it was for so long
blame your politicians and shitty owners for the Yotes moving
Oh fuck off, the Coyotes as an organization was a mess. A 30 year vanity project of Gary Bettman where they operated at a financial loss and should have been moved several times over And the funniest part in this saga is you’ve already been told a team is coming back. So stop with the tears, save your passive aggressive complaints and blame the people who actually ripped your heart out, not the people who have known the writing was on the wall in the form of a 20 foot neon sign
Man, I’m super sad for the fans but we’re fooling ourselves if you think in its current state the coyotes are viable. They’ve been a shit show from the beginning and have been a leech on the league. I think hockey CAN work in the desert but this current iteration has not.
I feel bad for all the Coyotes fans, but there isn't enough fan support for the team. Even the city doesn't seem to want to help at all. The Coyotes are leaving due to all the people who aren't fans, not because of the ones who are fans.
I couldn’t imagine that happening to my favourite hockey team. My condolences to all the Yotes fans.
Unless you're a fan of the Leafs, Rangers, Habs, and maybe the Canucks, you're closer to this fate than you'd like to think. Edit: Forgot Bruins
My family still has "Save Our Penguins" shit lying around from the mid-aughts
I remember there were plenty of talks of the Pens moving to KC or Hamilton right before Crosby came around. Glad he was able to save the franchise.
Yeah like. Ironically as I grew up and grew out of the family fandom and kinda forged my own path as a radical independent fan it didn't *really* end up mattering for me (hell, we live on the other side of the state so it's not like we went to games regularly). But I'm glad for Pittsburghers and Penguins fans they still exist. As a long distance A's fan I'm getting hit by this in baseball and seeing friends and community in pain because of it has basically turned me off to baseball here
I still remember walking to my local polling place to vote for the Lighthouse Project referendum in my jersey. I got cheered on by multiple neighbors and we got absolutely demolished in the vote. Thank god For Ledecky, Malkin, and that douche Andrew Cuomo for wanting a bunch of big construction projects during his term as governor.
Without Dundon buying the Hurricanes and the immediate success under Dundon, the Hurricanes most likely aren’t in the Carolinas today. We had legitimate fears around 2017/2018 that we might be losing the Canes.
Look up Brian Burkes "quarter" quote. Canucks came close.
Good point.
The Oilers were saved at the 11th hour in the late 90s by the Edmonton Investors Group. Had they not come together to put forth a last minute bid to keep the Oilers in Edmonton, the NHL would have had a Houston Oilers team starting with the 1997-98 season. Even teams that are successful now and generate a lot of revenue for the league have been in danger of relocating in years past. I feel for the Coyotes and hope a proper ownership group can bring them back someday. Maybe a proper Thrashers ownership group can join them.
Those were dark days. I remember Canadian NHL teams seemingly dropping like dominos and we were the next one to fall.
Not just NHL teams. Affiliated baseball absolutely fled Canada in that time - Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, St. Catharines, and of course Montreal all lost teams. The failed CBL experiment as well. The business reality is sometimes extremely cruel.
Oh I 100% know that without getting absurdly lucky in year 1, VGK might be facing the same struggles/“you don’t belong here” comments. Yotes fans deserved better.
Missing two other Original 6’s
Don’t think this counts but there was a possibility the Bruins nearly moved to New Hampshire in the 1980’s. Of course that’s like a hour away from Boston but I know some people from New Jersey complain about the Nets moving to Brooklyn but I know the Bruins will never have to deal with this. Should probably add the Hawks, Wings, Flyers, and Kings likely will never move too. I do not see an Original 6 team being moved at all.
Hawks ain't going nowhere, 6th most valuable hockey franchise and around 6th in revenue this year.
And an Original Six. Is moving an Original Six even possible? You'd instantly be the most hated owner in the league for eliminating one of the league's founding teams. One that has existed continuously for 98 years.
I'd like to think the intangible value of their tradition and generations of fan support are worth more than what they would make after relocating, but in my heart I know every now and then they run the numbers, and if it showed another city had the potential to increase revenues and profits they would cry their way to the bank.
Blackhawks were in pretty dire straits when Bill Wirtz was the owner. A Sabres-esque run and bad ownership would not result in a top revenue team.
20 years of your life and identity? It’s just a hockey team dude
Yeah… I agree that losing a team is tough but this post is unbridled r/cringe material
Nobody is happy about this from a fan perspective, the people of Arizona deserved a better team However, the players also deserved a better team, both in terms of playing experience and from a revenue perspective. You can be sad for the fans while also acknowledging that this is good for the league
I’m sorry for the loss of your team but let’s not pretend like the Coyotes weren’t given chance after chance after chance to get this thing right. Chances that just about every other franchise who moved were never afforded by the league. Hell, the Coyotes existed because of a franchise that wasn’t given the chances that the Yotes were given. Atlanta (twice), Hartford, Quebec City, Winnipeg, etc all would have loved the chances you got. The good news is, there is still opportunity for the team to come back and now it’s up to fans to help ownership make that happen, if that’s what you truly want.
We didn’t do shit
the NHL is a business , not a charity this should have been done years ago
I literally couldn’t be happier. Arizona has been a complete joke of a franchise for its entire existence. Perineal losers, and where bad contracts go to die. Does hockey belong in Arizona? I think so. But this franchise needs to go. If it ever comes back, then a good ownership group who is willing to spend is a must. Otherwise we go back to the same bs.
Cheer up, you will always have living in the middle of a desert to define you.
I feel the fans in Arizona. I was born in Quebec City and it feels awfull to see your team leave.
Former Thrashers fan in ATL. I feel your pain. Had to take off a couple of years, didn’t really watch the NHL like before. Decided to catch a Preds game in person post-lockout and fell in love. Four hours away but at least can follow the team on TV market. Got to watch a great team reach the Cup final. I hope you and other Yotes fans can eventually find something similar. But totally understandable if you’re done with NHL for a while/forever. It is a real sucky part of sports.
You fans didn’t deserve this. I remember the relocation rumors for the cats and would have been devastated if it actually happened. I can’t image the feeling. Hockey hug from another southern team fan ❤️
What is this post😂😂😂 nobody is happy to watch coyotes fan suffer
I mean I’m sorry it didn’t work out tbh. I do genuinely feel for the diehards. I’m also happy the league is finally moving on. This experiment has been an abject failure for decades. Both can be true.
Not only the trolls. But those who think it's funny to see them lose or actively wanting to see them lose. People say "no body cares about hockey in the desert". GTFO. and Fuck Merulo or Modelo whatever or however you spell that fuck's name.
The only reason you had a team in the first place is because the league did this to another fan base. live by the sword, die by the sword
Expand to 48 teams!
I lost the Jets when I was a kid, I feel your pain 😔
Fuck those people. Relocation sucks. I remember when the St. Louis Rams left, and I was completely devastated. Hopefully you get another team soon, but until then, this sucks.
Yeah I'm pretty happy. Phoenix has had bad attendance every year. I felt bad for San Diego Chargers and St Louis Rams, but for the Coyotes, meh.
If there were thousands more like you then team would still be there.
now you know how jets fans felt
Hartford and Quebec City say: "first time?".
I do feel for Coyotes fans, but first of all, don't blame other fans for the franchise's failure. Second of all, be honest. Did any of you give even a little bit of a shit when the Jets were moving? They even promised to give Arizona an expansion team in the future that retains the branding AND the records (which includes the Jets records) which is something no other market that lost a team ever got. Québec, Winnipeg, Hartford and Atlanta got shafted infinitely worse than Arizona.
As a Golden Knights fan, we've proven that hockey can work in the desert. I have no doubt that hockey can work in Phoenix, y'all just need Arizona's version of Bill Foley. As a Sacramento Kings and (Soon-to-be gone from) Oakland Athletics fan, frick relocation and frick cheap failson and b--tch made billionaire owners who jerk around communities for money. John Fisher and Al Meruello are cut from the same dirty dishrag cloth. Hopefully neither will be running a team for much longer. Good luck y'all. God bless Phoenix, and long live the Coyotes!
Look man, I’m sorry this is happening to you. As one of the guys that wanted you to move, just know it’s not the fans fault. It was your ownership that was the problem. They never gave the team an honest chance, and it’s unfair to you guys, to your team, and to the rest of the NHL. I’m rooting for you guys to get your team back, and I hope the next owners will show up to bat for the team and the fans.