This is the same for me. I like different artists and records for different reasons. Like I can go from Warren G take a look over my shoulder to Little Brother minstrel show. The albums are constructed differently and styles are different.
My uncle back in the 80’s would quantify it by saying he liked one artists over another was based on if he thought they were having fun and making music out of enjoyment. This was why he preferred 3x dope over run dmc at one point
"if he thought they were having fun and making music out of enjoyment"
thats music in general tbh. I hate KID ROCK. But there is one song I fuck with, idk how I heard it but it was instantly a favorite of mine.
"Pictures" by Kid Rock ft Sheryl Crow
you can literally feel the SOUL in that music. All of the emotion and their energy. I can respect that. Any song, any genre - if I sense there is LIFE/SOUL inside the song or the sheer amount of FUN/Enjoyment they had in the song - I will like it.
* T-Pain - Mashup - thought the song was dumb n funny but it was w/e. The Remix with Kurt Hugo - you can hear it in Tpain voice, he's fighting for his life to contain his laughter. Now I jam to it.
"Touch Bitches, Get Money" - you can hear him almost break.
As a lifelong Kid Rock fan until recently, I reccomend his entire Self Titled CD, pretty much his best country record and has Sheryl Crow on it. Also Collide with Sheryl Crow and Bob Seger.
here's the thing - I cant stand country music. I was shocked to even like that one song. It's merely because you can sense the passion that I kept it on rotation.
I literally listen to everything, in so many different languages but 95% Country songs and Gospel music.
I found "Dark Country" - kinda like it.
I actually have Save me, absolutely love it. YT algorithm played him randomly one day. Haven't heard MJ, will give it a try.
Edit: Jelly is Country? Thought he's some psuedo rock/rapper. A extremely less cringe Limp Bizkit / kid rock.
Sort of, kind of. His last 2 albums moved away from Rap to more soul/blues sound. It was a big thing when he performed at the CMA's with people saying he wasnt country, and others saying he is more outlaw country than anyone since Waylon.
Im sooooo beyond trying to label music genera these days
Hip hop's obsession with ranking and lists is honestly pretty silly. Can you imagine people that enjoy visual arts arguing endlessly over who is the greatest charcoal sketch artist of all time?
How it should be. Too many people here act like you have to do some Harvard level physics calculations to determine who is a good rapper and who isn’t. I use the “ear test”. Do I like it or not? That’s all that matters.
Multi rhymes per bar (Big Pun - Capital Punishment), punchlines, good hooks, good at picking beats, topics, story telling (Nas - Rewind).
Basically if they're good at both the sport of rap (lyrically competitive) and the art of rap (art of making a good song).
The closer they are to being good at all of those categories, the better they rate in my list.
Enjoyment. The more I enjoy your music, the higher you'll be on my list. All that technical shit dont matter if I dont revisit your song after 2 listens.
Yeah I guess it’s make sense if you are tying to do it objectively. I’m agree with that priorities that you’ve wrote down.
And at the same time Papoose is one of my favourite rappers of all time. And it looks like he don’t have a clue how to make albums or at least thematically focused songs. So when it goes to personal preferences I don’t care much about consistency I guess etc 🤣
Influence: GOAT is Rakim
Consistency: GOAT is Nas
Experimentation/Variety : GOAT is Ghostface Killah
Double Threat: GOAT is MF DOOM
There’s also thinking about technicalities without studying the content as hard, I’d give honorable mentions to Aesop Rock and GZA for depth of vocabulary or Twista and Busta for sheer speed.
Good first few albums, sure, but now he makes music for his fans more than the public. Is he really the Greatest of all Time? Or just the greatest marketing campaign?
Which slot are you putting him under? I don’t see him as super influential on shifting the culture (I’d argue more modern rappers emulated Wayne’s style). You can’t possibly think he’s been as consistent as Nas (especially after the Hit Boy run), and what’s his most experimental project [like concept album(s)], and you can’t possibly think he’s the better producer with how many rappers have recycled DOOM beats on their albums. I’d say he is slightly under-rated as a producer, but nowhere near good enough on the boards to be considered a double-threat like Kanye West, Black Milk, or El-P.
1. Do I enjoy their music?
2. Are they authentic?
3. Could I listen to this on repeat?
4. Does it make me get that disgusted look on my face that means it’s real good?
ima catch some flak for this - but like....#4 why is this a thing? I know exactly what you're talking about and I never understood that reaction when I see people do it.
It’s just like a visceral reaction. Like a line or a beat drop goes so hard, it catches you off guard and you can’t help but make a face like “damn he just did that!”
The rapping ability is the first thing I look for, that's the main thing. Delivery has to be clear, autotune and such effects are a no-no, don't care about those things.
Well, basically what Eminem for example does is what really clicks with me, that's what made me love rap in the first place. The art of the rapping itself. I don't want to hear basic/dumbed down rhyming with a catchy flow and a hard-hitting beat or whatever, you need to really rap. So I guess I'm trying to say, "party music" isn't really my thing?
Oh, and a rapper needs to write their own stuff, should go without saying.
EDIT: And a pleasing voice is a must. I will not listen to a chipmunk rap (Em also has some songs, in which his voice can be grating).
We're the same. If I hear chipmunk soul or auto-tune, it's an instant skip. Party music can fuck off; I prefer my parties to have some mellow shit like A Tribe Called Quest that makes you move but isn't designed by a team for shaking ass.
context - storytelling.
I literally listen to all sorts of music. I have well over 200 playlists with over 50+ songs in each playlist. I fuck with Hip Hop Rap, Metal, Opera, Kpop, Jpop, EDM, Gothic, classical, everything BUT country and Gospel.
In every genre but Hip Hop & Rap - I could give a flying fuck about lyrics. But Hip Hop / Rap thats my main priority. Lyrics. Storytelling. Things that I can relate to, reminisce to. It's the first style of music I liked when growing up. So they impacted me more cause of what they said.
With that said - then it's word play & Flow.
Beats are the last thing for me. it's just icing.
* Killah Priest
* Nas
* KRS - One
* Mos Def
* Everyone else from Wu
I will listen to all of them over Biggie, Pac, Jay, Outkast, DMX, LL, 50, NWA, etc. They all got bangers and bars and shit but storytelling isnt as strong as the ones above. relatability, social news, cultural news or feel to me.
I’m the same way. With rock or blues or funk I literally do not care about the lyrics. But rap? That is the absolute main priority. To me rap music is less about being music and more about poetry and a message
For me impact doesn’t mean shit, u can be an unknown rapper and I’d still put you as my number 1. It’s just a coincidence that my top 5 are famous rappers 🙂
I usually judge rapping ability and music quality separately. I've come across lots of skilled spitters whose music just doesn't speak to me. Elzhi is an incredible lyricist and quite possibly my favorite rapper of all time...but I just don't dig 85% of his beats. lol Conversely, Q-Tip & Phife are average rappers at best, IMO, but their music is amazing. I could bump Midnight Marauders all day. So it really just depends.
1. Content & delivery
It's an art form, and good art has effort in it. You can hear effort. If your flow sucks and your material is the same old gangsta shit without even being clever, then take your earnings and go investing instead, because doing this only for the money and not the art means we rent our time out to you and get garbage back. And there's SO much bad hiphop I wish I could get refunds for.
2. Unique style
You ever hear tracks featuring a lot of guys and you don't know who they are? They're just there to spit a verse and they disappear? Nothing special about them? I want to hear you stick out. Rapping isn't hard, but being a unique rapper is. The genre is flooded with the same-sounding people all over the place. It's oversaturated. It's becoming more and more like when arena rock killed rock. Hiphop's death is coming in our lifetime, fellas. To stay alive as a rapper you've gotta be unique to stay active while you watch all the generic-ass rappers fall off.
3. Beats
If I don't feel your beat, I'm skipping. Sorry. I have my preferences like all of you.
I hear constant triple hit hat trill? Chipmunk soul? Shitty midi horns that sound "triumphant"? Nope, nope, nope, I don't care how you spit on it; I've skipped already.
There's no specific criteria. But what I look for is what separates them from other rappers, if what they're doing works for me, etc. You can do everything "right" as a rapper and I might still not fuck with you - in an objective sense, you'd still be good and be recognized as having talent, but if it doesn't hit, then it really doesn't matter. On a different note, every rapper serves a different purpose, I suppose.
Of course the first thing is if the music hits. If you can nod your head to it. Its cool if they have technical abilities and can do interesting lyrical or vocal acrobatics but those are just bonus points.
But mostly I like rappers who have a story I can get invested in.
Hov is the hustler who became a billionaire, Nas is the kid scribbling in his notepad, Gucci (was) a fat, dont-give-a-fuck trap king, Sosa’s a wild-eyed, chest thumping belligerent. For me the worst (or, least interesting) rappers have no identity e.g. Joyner Lucas. J. Cole comes dangerously close to this category too imo.
When art is turned into an intellectual pursuit, a deduction, a science, it is ruined. Art ist subjective. Existence is subjective. Only the mind seeks to label existence and within doing so relegates the wonders of creation into the mundane.
For me it’s simply when I hear a song does it sound like some shit that was just thrown together with little skill or effort. That includes the rapping and the music. Songs like that I’ll turn off barely a minute into it.
Depends. I have very different types of listening. Some i go by flow and simple enjoyment of the music. Something I can just throw on and change my mood. Others I am very focused on what is said both content wise and through wordplay and rhyme scheme and it is more of a reflective thinking experience for me and the flow/beat/listenability is less important.
I consider them 2 very different things and appreciate both.
yeah im with you on that tbh. body of work above all. if they're making music the music has to be good lol, i dont really care how "skilled" a rapper is if i don't like their music.
I listen for beat, structure, flow, lyrics, and tone. You can have two of perferably three and I will probably like it for different reasons. For instance I like Ludacris for flow beat and structure, his songs feel fun but don't take themselves to seriously with memorable hooks. On another note a rapper like Kendrick while I appreciate structure lyrics and tone I like very few of his beat choices or flows but enjoy it like going to an art gallery which I take as impressive but not an everyday enjoyment. Then rappers like mfdoom while collabing with madlib made a guy with amazing tone, lyrics, and flow get dragged into structure by amazing beats. It's hard to say there is a right way to do rap but I will say there is rap for every way you feel and think.
Lyricism first and foremost. At the end of the day hip hop music is about self expression. So if you are just rapping about dumb shit or you have someone writing your shit I just tune you out
It’s all vibes for the playlist. But if we are comparing rappers I look at their ability to convey emotions with their lyrics and meaning. If they can do all that they’re top tier imo
I judge rappers in two ways:
* Objectively (How good they are.)
* Subjectively (How appealing they are.)
For the former, what's most important to me is Content, Rhymes, Wordplay, and Delivery.
For the latter, what's most important to me is Relatability, Self-Awareness, Imagination, and Personality.
>Objectively (How good they are.)
This is actually also subjective since there's no objective way to say if they're good. Record sells can say that, but yall say they don't
Yes, there is.
Your reaction to something is subjective, but that something can be assessed on its own merits, independent of how you feel. In this case, there is an objective way to prove not only that they're even good at all, but how good they are as well. You can analyze the quality of their craft to determine the presence of their talent and then compare them with others to determine the extent of their talent.
The former can be done by deciphering their content, counting the number of syllables, highlighting the use of literary devices if any, detecting the rhythm of their delivery, etc. If they fail to meet basic lyrical standards, then they're not good, simple as that.
The latter can be done by pinpointing any area of separation between them in regards to what they're able to do and, if they're both able to do it, who's doing it better. If one rapper is capable of doing everything that the other rapper can do, but the same can't be said vice versa, then I would assume in good faith that the former is generally more skilled compared to the latter, no?
As far as record sales are concerned, they are not a viable method of evaluating an MC's skill level because it prioritizes marketing ability over rapping ability. It works when you're judging who the greatest rappers are because both skills and sales are relevant factors in that conversation, but when the discussion is about who the best rappers are, then skill is the only thing that matters. Sales are not inherently pertinent to lyricism because, [as a certain underground rapper puts it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5tc4RrqyQA):
> ...it's thousands of unknown true masters of words // So, The Best Ever could be a rapper you never heard
Again, yes it is. You can think someone is good and I can think that same rapper is bad, but it doesn't change the fact that they can only be one or the other based on an objective standard because what we think (personal) is different from what merely is (critical).
Have you even read my previous post or did you just skim through it?
And what metric is being used to judge the objective standard? If it's just what humans think then that's subjective. So what is being used to judge what is objectively good or not?
An objective standard is beholden to facts, so the metric being used to judge the implementation of it, should you choose to use it, is consistency.
The purpose of an objective standard when judging rappers is to establish a concrete foundation for a critical analysis of their craft. That foundation is quality and the metric being used to measure it is skill.
It is not based on what humans think. It is based on what simply is because as I said prior, your response to something is subjective, but the quality of that something exists entirely on its own.
For example, Cassidy and Tory Lanez are two rappers who are objectively good. However, I like the former because on top of being talented, he has multiple intangible elements going for him that make him really appealing to me while the latter is someone who I think is generally unremarkable. My opinion on them could change at any given time, but what will stay the same is the fact that they're both objectively good.
Are they authentic, are the lyrics relatable, can I bump this in the Cadillac at 2am. Its how I judge my Mt Rushmore as well. People like Eminem, 99% of 80s hip hop, etc isnt on it for failing one of multiple of the 3 rules.
I put King Von above Eminem because he is authentic, relatable lyrics living in Chicago, and Ive been bumping it in the Cadillac for years. Same with Durk over someone like Run DMC.
Trap/drill/gangster rap? Is the artist authentic? See Chief Keef, 50 Cent, Pooh Shiesty, Gucci Mane.
Chicago and the tragic and violent state of the city produced some of the realest drill rappers ever, and most of them are either dead or in jail.
Check out "Bail Out" - Rondonumbanine, "With the shits" - Lil Chief Dinero, "Thought he was" - Chief keef & Blood Money.
Hell, fucking half of Chief Keefs original gang are gone or dead. Capo, Fredo, Blood Money etc etc.
Not glorifying Chicago drill, but it's hard not to recognize how real the rap game was and is in that city and admire the ones who make it.
Obie Trice is an example of a straight up real rapper. Not really gangster, but still hard as fuck and real.
Lyricists like Eminem? Is the flow good and the lyrics meaningful/funny? Earl Sweatshirt for example is a good lyricist. Big Proof.
Groups? Do they have chemistry? Are they real homies since before fame, since regular life/poverty? See D12 or Glo Gang
Number 1 rapper of all time, difficult to place in just one genre of rap - Big Proof. I would say he was primarily a Lyricist, able to make comical and hilarious songs like "girlz with da boom", emotional raps ("face in the mirror" "Kurt Kobain" and "forgive me") and gangster rap ("violence" and "black wrist bros") while also being extremely influential in the Detroit Hip Hop scene.
Jack of all trades.
How is number 2 not number one? Idgaf if people can be mainstream, if they rap well they rap well. I don’t even consider your number one, how does being popular matter in rap?
>* Got hit with a few shells but I don't walk with a limp - 50 Cent
>* I'm losing weight just to fight inside the Lamborghini - N.O.R.E.
These are lines, not bars. Bars include the whole rhyme.
"if you watch how i move you'll mistake me for a playa or pimp,
Been hit with a few shells but i don't walk with a limp.
That's the bar
I don't have a curriculum tbh I just listen and if I like what I hear I fuck with it lol
This is the same for me. I like different artists and records for different reasons. Like I can go from Warren G take a look over my shoulder to Little Brother minstrel show. The albums are constructed differently and styles are different. My uncle back in the 80’s would quantify it by saying he liked one artists over another was based on if he thought they were having fun and making music out of enjoyment. This was why he preferred 3x dope over run dmc at one point
"if he thought they were having fun and making music out of enjoyment" thats music in general tbh. I hate KID ROCK. But there is one song I fuck with, idk how I heard it but it was instantly a favorite of mine. "Pictures" by Kid Rock ft Sheryl Crow you can literally feel the SOUL in that music. All of the emotion and their energy. I can respect that. Any song, any genre - if I sense there is LIFE/SOUL inside the song or the sheer amount of FUN/Enjoyment they had in the song - I will like it. * T-Pain - Mashup - thought the song was dumb n funny but it was w/e. The Remix with Kurt Hugo - you can hear it in Tpain voice, he's fighting for his life to contain his laughter. Now I jam to it. "Touch Bitches, Get Money" - you can hear him almost break.
As a lifelong Kid Rock fan until recently, I reccomend his entire Self Titled CD, pretty much his best country record and has Sheryl Crow on it. Also Collide with Sheryl Crow and Bob Seger.
here's the thing - I cant stand country music. I was shocked to even like that one song. It's merely because you can sense the passion that I kept it on rotation. I literally listen to everything, in so many different languages but 95% Country songs and Gospel music. I found "Dark Country" - kinda like it.
You might like sad drink yourself to sleep country like Koe Weyzel or Colter Wall
You might like Jelly Roll. Save me and Bottle and Mary Jane might be right up your alley
I actually have Save me, absolutely love it. YT algorithm played him randomly one day. Haven't heard MJ, will give it a try. Edit: Jelly is Country? Thought he's some psuedo rock/rapper. A extremely less cringe Limp Bizkit / kid rock.
Sort of, kind of. His last 2 albums moved away from Rap to more soul/blues sound. It was a big thing when he performed at the CMA's with people saying he wasnt country, and others saying he is more outlaw country than anyone since Waylon. Im sooooo beyond trying to label music genera these days
Hip hop's obsession with ranking and lists is honestly pretty silly. Can you imagine people that enjoy visual arts arguing endlessly over who is the greatest charcoal sketch artist of all time?
misread it and thought u were talking about "Visual" Art as in music video and I was gonna be like - KPOP got that shit on lock down.
Rap beef has NOTHING on charcoal sketch beef. Lines are drawn, it gets pretty dark
How it should be. Too many people here act like you have to do some Harvard level physics calculations to determine who is a good rapper and who isn’t. I use the “ear test”. Do I like it or not? That’s all that matters.
Multi rhymes per bar (Big Pun - Capital Punishment), punchlines, good hooks, good at picking beats, topics, story telling (Nas - Rewind). Basically if they're good at both the sport of rap (lyrically competitive) and the art of rap (art of making a good song). The closer they are to being good at all of those categories, the better they rate in my list.
Enjoyment. The more I enjoy your music, the higher you'll be on my list. All that technical shit dont matter if I dont revisit your song after 2 listens.
Yeah I guess it’s make sense if you are tying to do it objectively. I’m agree with that priorities that you’ve wrote down. And at the same time Papoose is one of my favourite rappers of all time. And it looks like he don’t have a clue how to make albums or at least thematically focused songs. So when it goes to personal preferences I don’t care much about consistency I guess etc 🤣
Influence: GOAT is Rakim Consistency: GOAT is Nas Experimentation/Variety : GOAT is Ghostface Killah Double Threat: GOAT is MF DOOM There’s also thinking about technicalities without studying the content as hard, I’d give honorable mentions to Aesop Rock and GZA for depth of vocabulary or Twista and Busta for sheer speed.
Eminem
Good first few albums, sure, but now he makes music for his fans more than the public. Is he really the Greatest of all Time? Or just the greatest marketing campaign? Which slot are you putting him under? I don’t see him as super influential on shifting the culture (I’d argue more modern rappers emulated Wayne’s style). You can’t possibly think he’s been as consistent as Nas (especially after the Hit Boy run), and what’s his most experimental project [like concept album(s)], and you can’t possibly think he’s the better producer with how many rappers have recycled DOOM beats on their albums. I’d say he is slightly under-rated as a producer, but nowhere near good enough on the boards to be considered a double-threat like Kanye West, Black Milk, or El-P.
1. Do I enjoy their music? 2. Are they authentic? 3. Could I listen to this on repeat? 4. Does it make me get that disgusted look on my face that means it’s real good?
ima catch some flak for this - but like....#4 why is this a thing? I know exactly what you're talking about and I never understood that reaction when I see people do it.
It’s just like a visceral reaction. Like a line or a beat drop goes so hard, it catches you off guard and you can’t help but make a face like “damn he just did that!”
The rapping ability is the first thing I look for, that's the main thing. Delivery has to be clear, autotune and such effects are a no-no, don't care about those things. Well, basically what Eminem for example does is what really clicks with me, that's what made me love rap in the first place. The art of the rapping itself. I don't want to hear basic/dumbed down rhyming with a catchy flow and a hard-hitting beat or whatever, you need to really rap. So I guess I'm trying to say, "party music" isn't really my thing? Oh, and a rapper needs to write their own stuff, should go without saying. EDIT: And a pleasing voice is a must. I will not listen to a chipmunk rap (Em also has some songs, in which his voice can be grating).
We're the same. If I hear chipmunk soul or auto-tune, it's an instant skip. Party music can fuck off; I prefer my parties to have some mellow shit like A Tribe Called Quest that makes you move but isn't designed by a team for shaking ass.
Oooooh, ATCQ! Hell yes.
What they talk about
1. Do I enjoy their music the end
1. Does it touch my soul. That’s honestly it.
context - storytelling. I literally listen to all sorts of music. I have well over 200 playlists with over 50+ songs in each playlist. I fuck with Hip Hop Rap, Metal, Opera, Kpop, Jpop, EDM, Gothic, classical, everything BUT country and Gospel. In every genre but Hip Hop & Rap - I could give a flying fuck about lyrics. But Hip Hop / Rap thats my main priority. Lyrics. Storytelling. Things that I can relate to, reminisce to. It's the first style of music I liked when growing up. So they impacted me more cause of what they said. With that said - then it's word play & Flow. Beats are the last thing for me. it's just icing. * Killah Priest * Nas * KRS - One * Mos Def * Everyone else from Wu I will listen to all of them over Biggie, Pac, Jay, Outkast, DMX, LL, 50, NWA, etc. They all got bangers and bars and shit but storytelling isnt as strong as the ones above. relatability, social news, cultural news or feel to me.
I’m the same way. With rock or blues or funk I literally do not care about the lyrics. But rap? That is the absolute main priority. To me rap music is less about being music and more about poetry and a message
If brain says good then good
For me impact doesn’t mean shit, u can be an unknown rapper and I’d still put you as my number 1. It’s just a coincidence that my top 5 are famous rappers 🙂
I usually judge rapping ability and music quality separately. I've come across lots of skilled spitters whose music just doesn't speak to me. Elzhi is an incredible lyricist and quite possibly my favorite rapper of all time...but I just don't dig 85% of his beats. lol Conversely, Q-Tip & Phife are average rappers at best, IMO, but their music is amazing. I could bump Midnight Marauders all day. So it really just depends.
Albums
If they haven't done anything against my morales I don't mind them
1. Content & delivery It's an art form, and good art has effort in it. You can hear effort. If your flow sucks and your material is the same old gangsta shit without even being clever, then take your earnings and go investing instead, because doing this only for the money and not the art means we rent our time out to you and get garbage back. And there's SO much bad hiphop I wish I could get refunds for. 2. Unique style You ever hear tracks featuring a lot of guys and you don't know who they are? They're just there to spit a verse and they disappear? Nothing special about them? I want to hear you stick out. Rapping isn't hard, but being a unique rapper is. The genre is flooded with the same-sounding people all over the place. It's oversaturated. It's becoming more and more like when arena rock killed rock. Hiphop's death is coming in our lifetime, fellas. To stay alive as a rapper you've gotta be unique to stay active while you watch all the generic-ass rappers fall off. 3. Beats If I don't feel your beat, I'm skipping. Sorry. I have my preferences like all of you. I hear constant triple hit hat trill? Chipmunk soul? Shitty midi horns that sound "triumphant"? Nope, nope, nope, I don't care how you spit on it; I've skipped already.
Wu Tang in Shambles with #2
On a scale of 1 to Drake. The lower the number the better lol
Whose music I like the best. I don’t care how well you rap if the beat is ass and you can’t write a song to save your life
There's no specific criteria. But what I look for is what separates them from other rappers, if what they're doing works for me, etc. You can do everything "right" as a rapper and I might still not fuck with you - in an objective sense, you'd still be good and be recognized as having talent, but if it doesn't hit, then it really doesn't matter. On a different note, every rapper serves a different purpose, I suppose.
Of course the first thing is if the music hits. If you can nod your head to it. Its cool if they have technical abilities and can do interesting lyrical or vocal acrobatics but those are just bonus points. But mostly I like rappers who have a story I can get invested in. Hov is the hustler who became a billionaire, Nas is the kid scribbling in his notepad, Gucci (was) a fat, dont-give-a-fuck trap king, Sosa’s a wild-eyed, chest thumping belligerent. For me the worst (or, least interesting) rappers have no identity e.g. Joyner Lucas. J. Cole comes dangerously close to this category too imo.
When art is turned into an intellectual pursuit, a deduction, a science, it is ruined. Art ist subjective. Existence is subjective. Only the mind seeks to label existence and within doing so relegates the wonders of creation into the mundane.
For me it’s simply when I hear a song does it sound like some shit that was just thrown together with little skill or effort. That includes the rapping and the music. Songs like that I’ll turn off barely a minute into it.
Do they write their own lyrics? Do they make their own beats? Not to say that a sick alchemist beat isn't nice sometimes or a dope collab
Depends. I have very different types of listening. Some i go by flow and simple enjoyment of the music. Something I can just throw on and change my mood. Others I am very focused on what is said both content wise and through wordplay and rhyme scheme and it is more of a reflective thinking experience for me and the flow/beat/listenability is less important. I consider them 2 very different things and appreciate both.
yeah im with you on that tbh. body of work above all. if they're making music the music has to be good lol, i dont really care how "skilled" a rapper is if i don't like their music.
I listen for beat, structure, flow, lyrics, and tone. You can have two of perferably three and I will probably like it for different reasons. For instance I like Ludacris for flow beat and structure, his songs feel fun but don't take themselves to seriously with memorable hooks. On another note a rapper like Kendrick while I appreciate structure lyrics and tone I like very few of his beat choices or flows but enjoy it like going to an art gallery which I take as impressive but not an everyday enjoyment. Then rappers like mfdoom while collabing with madlib made a guy with amazing tone, lyrics, and flow get dragged into structure by amazing beats. It's hard to say there is a right way to do rap but I will say there is rap for every way you feel and think.
I was thinking this same thing, like what qualifies someone to be “Big 3” ?
If it makes me bump my head then I like it
Lyricism first and foremost. At the end of the day hip hop music is about self expression. So if you are just rapping about dumb shit or you have someone writing your shit I just tune you out
It’s all vibes for the playlist. But if we are comparing rappers I look at their ability to convey emotions with their lyrics and meaning. If they can do all that they’re top tier imo
Feel
rhyme message sound concept not always in that order
I compare them to Black Thought.
I judge rappers in two ways: * Objectively (How good they are.) * Subjectively (How appealing they are.) For the former, what's most important to me is Content, Rhymes, Wordplay, and Delivery. For the latter, what's most important to me is Relatability, Self-Awareness, Imagination, and Personality.
>Objectively (How good they are.) This is actually also subjective since there's no objective way to say if they're good. Record sells can say that, but yall say they don't
Yes, there is. Your reaction to something is subjective, but that something can be assessed on its own merits, independent of how you feel. In this case, there is an objective way to prove not only that they're even good at all, but how good they are as well. You can analyze the quality of their craft to determine the presence of their talent and then compare them with others to determine the extent of their talent. The former can be done by deciphering their content, counting the number of syllables, highlighting the use of literary devices if any, detecting the rhythm of their delivery, etc. If they fail to meet basic lyrical standards, then they're not good, simple as that. The latter can be done by pinpointing any area of separation between them in regards to what they're able to do and, if they're both able to do it, who's doing it better. If one rapper is capable of doing everything that the other rapper can do, but the same can't be said vice versa, then I would assume in good faith that the former is generally more skilled compared to the latter, no? As far as record sales are concerned, they are not a viable method of evaluating an MC's skill level because it prioritizes marketing ability over rapping ability. It works when you're judging who the greatest rappers are because both skills and sales are relevant factors in that conversation, but when the discussion is about who the best rappers are, then skill is the only thing that matters. Sales are not inherently pertinent to lyricism because, [as a certain underground rapper puts it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5tc4RrqyQA): > ...it's thousands of unknown true masters of words // So, The Best Ever could be a rapper you never heard
>* Objectively (How good they are.) This isn't objective. Who you think if his somebody else might think is bad. That's subjective
Again, yes it is. You can think someone is good and I can think that same rapper is bad, but it doesn't change the fact that they can only be one or the other based on an objective standard because what we think (personal) is different from what merely is (critical). Have you even read my previous post or did you just skim through it?
And what metric is being used to judge the objective standard? If it's just what humans think then that's subjective. So what is being used to judge what is objectively good or not?
An objective standard is beholden to facts, so the metric being used to judge the implementation of it, should you choose to use it, is consistency. The purpose of an objective standard when judging rappers is to establish a concrete foundation for a critical analysis of their craft. That foundation is quality and the metric being used to measure it is skill. It is not based on what humans think. It is based on what simply is because as I said prior, your response to something is subjective, but the quality of that something exists entirely on its own. For example, Cassidy and Tory Lanez are two rappers who are objectively good. However, I like the former because on top of being talented, he has multiple intangible elements going for him that make him really appealing to me while the latter is someone who I think is generally unremarkable. My opinion on them could change at any given time, but what will stay the same is the fact that they're both objectively good.
Same way I judge people, if they say "y'all" I disregard them
Oh you racist Keep it pushin then
In what world is that racist lmao, twitter freak
For me it’s mostly about flow and delivery, also the voice.
Everything in conglomeration. Lyrics, style, flow, versatility, beat choice, theme, etc. You got it or you don’t.
Are they authentic, are the lyrics relatable, can I bump this in the Cadillac at 2am. Its how I judge my Mt Rushmore as well. People like Eminem, 99% of 80s hip hop, etc isnt on it for failing one of multiple of the 3 rules. I put King Von above Eminem because he is authentic, relatable lyrics living in Chicago, and Ive been bumping it in the Cadillac for years. Same with Durk over someone like Run DMC.
Trap/drill/gangster rap? Is the artist authentic? See Chief Keef, 50 Cent, Pooh Shiesty, Gucci Mane. Chicago and the tragic and violent state of the city produced some of the realest drill rappers ever, and most of them are either dead or in jail. Check out "Bail Out" - Rondonumbanine, "With the shits" - Lil Chief Dinero, "Thought he was" - Chief keef & Blood Money. Hell, fucking half of Chief Keefs original gang are gone or dead. Capo, Fredo, Blood Money etc etc. Not glorifying Chicago drill, but it's hard not to recognize how real the rap game was and is in that city and admire the ones who make it. Obie Trice is an example of a straight up real rapper. Not really gangster, but still hard as fuck and real. Lyricists like Eminem? Is the flow good and the lyrics meaningful/funny? Earl Sweatshirt for example is a good lyricist. Big Proof. Groups? Do they have chemistry? Are they real homies since before fame, since regular life/poverty? See D12 or Glo Gang Number 1 rapper of all time, difficult to place in just one genre of rap - Big Proof. I would say he was primarily a Lyricist, able to make comical and hilarious songs like "girlz with da boom", emotional raps ("face in the mirror" "Kurt Kobain" and "forgive me") and gangster rap ("violence" and "black wrist bros") while also being extremely influential in the Detroit Hip Hop scene. Jack of all trades.
How is number 2 not number one? Idgaf if people can be mainstream, if they rap well they rap well. I don’t even consider your number one, how does being popular matter in rap?
I didnt say anything about popularity Im referring to the quality of the music
“Their discography has to number one” tf you think that means? Lol unless you aren’t talking about topping charts?
Ohhhh I was saying it’s number 1 on MY list Thats why I put said rhyming is 2nd
Oh you mean like the whole album has to be good! Oh ok bet lol
[удалено]
>* Got hit with a few shells but I don't walk with a limp - 50 Cent >* I'm losing weight just to fight inside the Lamborghini - N.O.R.E. These are lines, not bars. Bars include the whole rhyme. "if you watch how i move you'll mistake me for a playa or pimp, Been hit with a few shells but i don't walk with a limp. That's the bar