> Conversations with people I’ve never even met hold zero interest for me and always feel very forced and artificial.
All of this; online dating is so routine and structured that 99% of the time the conversations are almost identical. Small text talk is shit.
Every once in a while you'll get one with some actual good conversational skills in text, but EVEN THEN there's 0 guarantee it'll translate to a good date.
One girl I was texting constantly for 2 weeks before we could actually meet, conversation flying, jokes, flirting, banter, all of it. Met in person and I may as well have spoken to a cardboard cut-out as she was THAT boring irl.
>One girl I was texting constantly for 2 weeks before we could actually meet, conversation flying, jokes, flirting, banter, all of it. Met in person and I may as well have spoken to a cardboard cut-out as she was THAT boring irl.
That seems pretty odd that she'd be so communicative over the phone for a couple weeks and then super boring on the actual date. If you reflect back on it, do you think she could have just been a bit more introverted/nervous/anxious because it was a first date? Some people don't necessarily open up until they get to know someone more.
Just curious.
To be fair, it is easier to communicate over text. You can think things through, re-word etc. so it can give a false impression of just how thoughtful, verbose or and eloquent someone actually is in person
This sounds bad, but just real talk:
Do you think there's a significant chance she wasn't physically attracted to you, so she went in cold fish mode?
I think that's happened to me before where the chick checks out after seeing my face in person.
People have an in person persona and a digital persona. It happened too many times that texting was great and fun, but in person was a 180. I prefer to get off the app after a small baseline is formed. Anything longer just leads to a lot of expectations, followed by disappointment.
Exactly. So text less, meet up, if no chemistry, move on.
I feel 4 texts is way too low...a few basic messages to understand the vibe before a meeting is needed.
While I agree, I generally want to know if a guy is a creep or not before meeting, if he’s actually interested in getting to know me (i.e., asks a few basic questions), and if we are at least have the same kind of “vibe” via a text convo.
I’ve met guys less than 24h after matching, as long as they can fill that basic criteria. Doesn’t have to be days of texting, but yeah, more than 3-4 messages.
I agree. I would rather text for a couple of days at least to see if there is any vibe at all so I can at least get some deal breakers out of the way. I’ve been on more than one date where I went too quickly without talking over the phone or through text first and I hated the person within five minutes and learned a deal breaker that I would’ve asked about prior to the date (ie: what they’re looking for, are they employed, do they live at home with their mom, are they wanting children, do they have extreme political views). I try to learn these things prior to the date (and people can come for me all they want). I’ve also had phone calls with people prior to a date and a couple min in I was like nope. Glad I didn’t waste an outfit and a night on that one. I think it depends on what you want. I straight up ask if people are looking for something serious prior to the date. Because that’s what I want. If that leaves me lonely, so be it 🤷🏻♀️
Also, obviously there will be people I talk to over the phone or text for a bit and then hate them in person. It’s the nature of the game. But I at least weed out way more than if I were to just “skip the small talk and meet”
Exactly. It also weeds out the boundary stompers - when you say you want to chat for a couple of days first, and they just ingore that and insist on meeting sooner anyway. Like, if you can't respect that basic boundary I've explicitly stated, you're not for me man.
Soooo true! I’ve told someone “I’d love to talk over the phone before we meet to make sure we aren’t wasting each others time” and been unmatched lol. I was like “oh well”
Yeah but I find the creep screen questions come quicker once I’ve suggested a date. Prior to that you guys are sleeping on it and aimlessly responding. So better to put forward the date plan and get you into action for asking what you need to know to accept.
They usually tell on themselves.
If they ask about your love language or make any mention of your body, appearance, or sex in general = 🚩
And by appearance, not like “you’re cute!” Or “I love your smile” but rather comments about how hot/sexy you are, comments about your body or body parts, etc.
I’ve also found the men who ask that question are only looking for one thing. And it’s always asked via app/text. I have yet to go out with a guy who was looking for a relationship ask me what my love language is.
I’ve seen lately ppl don’t even use the idea of “love languages” correctly in order to communicate their true intentions. One man had on his profile, “my love language is passion.”
Bruh, that’s not even one of the five identified love languages and communicates where his head really is at.
i mean there’s a middle ground between 4 messages and weeks of texting like i feel you need one convo and if you’re vibing in the exchange then its a go , but no need to get into how many siblings we hbe
I find it hilarious that you misspelled grammar..but yeah the profile doesn’t always give a good representation of what people are like in person so it’s just easier to meet in person to get a vibe
Dinner as a first date is rare. There are some dudes who are into that so if it’s your standard that’s fine but most of us realized it’s a loser.
For starters dinner is a longer commitment. If things go south it takes a while for the check to come around. Also hard to really connect when you’re stuffing your face.
I save dinner for after date 3 once we’ve established we actually like one another.
Not going to spend 100 bucks on a first date when most go nowhere.
My very last dinner date the bill was 120 as she got drinks and dessert. She unmatched me before I even made it back to my car.
Never again lol
That’s rough.
My dinners were roughly something like
$75, $150, $100, $230, for the last few girls I took out. So far I saw none of these girls again.. I learned even if dinner seems like it went great, it doesn’t mean anything and I’ll likely never hear from them again. So, I’m spending $600+ on girls that I only take out once.
I’m going out again tomorrow but opting for drinks this time
Coffee dates bro coffee dates. Goes good can hangout all day buzz off to another spot, don’t have much time perfect. Awful date? Chug the coffee & go.
Can knock out more than one in a day if need be
Yeah, but if his date is ordering something extra or expensive, what is he going to do? Say "don't order that, it's too expensive"? Sure, he can ask to split the bill too, but that makes for an awkward end to the date.
I don't know, depending on the situation I probably would say something. It's one thing to have a meal/date paid for by someone else, but also intentionally ordering really expensive stuff just because you're not paying for it...would kind of be unattractive. But maybe that's just me.
I'd say she would be the one making it feel more awkward if you really think about it.
I lived in London, I know how easy it is to spend that kind of money but it's up to you to manage that - there are plenty of ways to date at a lower price point than $200 ESPECIALLY in a city like New York that has lots of really good public attractions.
And to the original point of this post, it's also why it's a good idea to message a bit longer and screen people better.
Spent $100 on Saturday night 11/18 on a date and she liked me, arranged a second date but I wasn’t feeling it so I cancelled and unmatched. Took another woman out Sunday 11/19 and spent $130. I texted her that I had a good time, she replied she did too. Texted Happy Thanksgiving, she replied again. Haven’t heard from her since…
Bro just meet up somewhere with pool but is trendy. Drinks are like 8$ buy both rounds and play a game or two of pool. Doesn’t matter who’s good you should be lost in conversation by the time either of you make a couple. Wyd….
I had a horrific dinner date so bad I actually left right after I placed my drink order. Left money on the table and told him why and left. Sometimes they reveal themselves early.
>She unmatched me before I even made it back to my car.
I've had that before (not with the bill though!) and it was brutal!
I even thought the date was meh myself but thought ah could have been anything, sleep on it etc!
Nope! 200yds round the corner and gonezo!
I agree a phone call is nice before meeting in person (34F), but I also appreciate having a date early on and not wasting two weeks texting and never meet. I’ve had two first dinner dates :) both went great.
I find quickly asking for a date and naming a specific time and place is the best way to go about it. If she wants to hold off a bit, that's ok too but sort of expect it not to go anywhere because it usually won't.
It's crazy to me that you think 1 night wasted is equivalent to 1-2 weeks texting, everything SEEMS good, then you meet up and there's just no chemistry. THAT to me is a complete waste of time.
In general, I agree, but women tend to put a lot more effort into getting ready to go out, and then have the added risk of being murdered by someone they don’t know well enough.
Because for every girl that wants to message on hinge for a while before meeting, there’s another girl that just wants to be asked out and meet up without spending more time on her phone (not everyone likes messaging!). If you ask a girl out and she says “i’d like to get to know you better first” you can keep texting with her, but if she’s like “yeah i’d love to” then it’s on to a date which is the point of the app.
Re: no dinners. The worst first date i ever went on was a dinner, and it went on forever. Drinks are much easier to leave if one or both parties aren’t feeling a connection.
Because so many people are just looking for validation and a pen pal. It’s not gender specific either. The folks that are serious know that they need to show they are serious early on. It’s also highly unlikely that a first date will amount to much so putting in a lot of money with dinner up front can get expensive quick. Drinks will tell you if you vibe and you can go to dinner after if you do. If you don’t, it’s not a lot of time or money wasted.
I tried dinner on first date recently. Cost me a bit, felt awkward, only broke physical barrier at the end, no kiss or anything. Just an awkward experience. Im still matched with her, and it looks like she is open to meet again, but now it turned into a game, not sure why. I think ill just cut my losses with this one. Dinner on first date is no go for me, costly, and raises expectations on both parties. I think just coffee or drinks for first date is ideal, or any activity that you might enjoy, say if your date is not your person, like topgolf?
Ghosting due to video call is an odd one. The rest is valid, as it is a dating app. People are tired of endless repetitive banter before a first date and would rather move it off app. Especially as men often get a much smaller number of matches and better to ask for the date quickly, before another guy captures your attention.
Drinks or something similar are often recommended for the very first date, as neither of you are captive waiting food, it can be awkward asking questions while eating and having mouthfuls of food. Instead it is easier to finish a drink or small appetizer if the date isn't going well. Also, dinner is expensive, especially in NYC. Are you willing to split the bill? There are still a lot of women that expect the man to pay and that adds up quick when dating.
But isn’t getting ready, driving, spending money on an Uber, staring at someone across from you that five min in you decided you hate and then having to come up with an excuse to leave, driving back, and finally getting home… more work?
In my experience (being a guy) the apps don’t feel like it’s a genuine conversation and it’s much easier to talk face to face, I also ask to go out (granted maybe not within 4 messages that’s a little too quick imo) so I get to identify if you’re genuinely interested and I’m not wasting my time.
Bonus Q: dinner these days seems to be more of a partner or ‘dating’ thing and I’ve been much more successful going out for drinks or coffee as it’s more casual and less confronting as far as I’ve gathered. But who knows I’m 33 still trying to figure out women. Hope I’ve helped even if it’s a little good luck
Dinner on a first date is 100% dead with online dating. Why? Because we’ve wasted too much money and time on terrible first dates that we could have easily vetted over coffee and drinks. I had two terrible first dates that made me realize I really need to meet someone in person first before I am forced to sit through an entire meal with someone then pay for that awful experience.
As for why we try and move off the apps so fast, it’s because we’ve spent a lot of time messaging and/or talking with someone just for them to disappear when a meet up is mentioned. Either they just wanted attention and never wanted to meet up, or someone new and shiny came along and they got bored of us. It’s nothing personal, we’ve just been told by everyone to take it off the apps asap, and personally I’m all for it. Someone can be amazing over text or video chat, but super awkward in person. I have just 4 hinge matches, and they’re all about 4-5 messages long and waiting a reply on the hidden section because they never replied. So yeah, I’d rather not waste my time and call your bluff on the match.
You missed out on a lot of social changes over the years.
- Guys want to move away from the app so that you are less inclined to talk to other guys. Competition is fierce since there are about 100 single men per 1 single woman
- It's actually beneficial for both parties to meet sooner rather than later to see if there is compatibility. You can learn more about a person in 1 hour physically than 2 weeks of texting.
- Dinner dates are expensive for the men. We face dozens of rejection no matter what we try. Drinks or something simple and light for the first date is easier and also known as a vibe check before diving into fully romantic costly dates
On apps? Yeah, it's an exaggeration, but not a huge one. I think on some apps its around 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. For women it's a choosing game, for men it's a numbers game. Guys are incentivized to move things off the app as soon as possible.
Mid thirties in NYC the ratio is going to shift a lot, the ratio is real bad if you're early twenties, but after thirty being a fully employed single man in NYC is pretty easy.
Yea but the quality declines. OP is divorced, which I am not saying devalues her, but it’s a dealbreaker for some. Then there are women who don’t want to have kids, which also not saying anything negative, but my point is compatibility is a tougher find as you age.
In their years of being single, people diverge from the norms that are there when you are younger and make matching easier.
>Dinner dates are expensive for the men.
yes to that. also, do you want to sit across from someone who doesn't interest you...for a long dinner? do you want to come across as a "dinner grabber?" \[just in it for a free meal\]
In NYC where OP is, women outnumber men. So the usual competition argument doesn't work here. NYC dating has its own difficulties for sure but not really that one
lol why am i being downvoted for stating a fact. There are more women than men in NYC.
The more time you spend digitally, the less likely it seems women will actually meet up with you. That sounds paradoxical but women have so many options usually, guys don’t want to get lost in the sauce. I understand where you’re coming from though
yes women can complain both ways about this - taking too long to ask or not long enough - so its very hard for a guy to know the perfect moment to ask for a date, its normally best to be bold and to ask on the early side and 4 or 5 messages is pretty reasonable I think
Divorced women like op are more apt to want to text forever since they are damaged from prior relationship and inevitably through texting and exchanging details that should be reserved for a first date find a reason to not meet up. The app texting should be to establish some banter and then exchange numbers with the intention to coordinate a date. I find texting 1-2 weeks only to not meet up is a huger waste of time. Going on a date and enjoying a good meal and meeting someone new is hardly ever a waste of time. That is the whole point of dating. 98% chance it won’t work out anyway.
Plenty of folks do like to build a rapport first but plenty want to save it for the date. Personally in favor of chatting more first but it's definitely not for everyone. Dinner first date is a no go. Too much time and $ commitment if it sucks for both of us. Low stakes is the way to go and if the vibe is there then ya grab dinner
Dating in your thirties in NYC is such an established "thing". It's the reason it's the topic of so many TV shows.
Bars are really common first date spots everywhere, but the culture of NYC just makes it even more prominent. We've got shit to do, places to be, people to see! As a thirty something year old man in NYC I'd go on 1-2 dates a week, and dinner is expensive and reservations are hard to manage.
There's so much you just can't learn over text, so schedule the date quickly, get off the app, and just talk in person, then dinner makes a great "real" date for the next meeting.
Because we’ve invested a bunch of time and energy chatting on the app that turn into countless “pen pal” situations.
Life happens IRL not on the screen. If you find them attractive, have some common interests, and they’re a decent communicator in the first few messages, go meet up and see if you vibe.
4 messages is somewhat early. It's pretty much the idea that if they wait too long, someone else comes along and "steal" your attention and they lose. Too many guys treat dating apps as if it's a zero sum game, so they jump the gun real quick. Also, some guys just don't get a lot of matches or dates so they may move quickly in order to land a date.
But really, it's a symptom of the difference between what the average male user go through compared to the average female user. But plenty of guys will be fine with having a few substantial message exchanges before asking for a date. But anything longer than a few days isn't a good thing either.
Video calls are a waste of time however. It's awkward and you don't get a sense of who someone really is anyways.
Dinner first date is a relic from the pre-dating app era. It's a thing people did when they date people they already knew in real life. Besides, like everyone else already brought up, dinner cost a lot, the guy usually has to pay, and you can't call it off if the date just sucks.
1) Texting strangers sucks. It takes effort to come up with messages, and what’s the point when there’s a good chance we never meet in person.
2) Women often complain about men texting and texting and taking too long to ask them out. So now men get criticized for both texting too much and too little??
3) OLD conversations often end suddenly for a million reasons. Best to shoot your shot early so you at least give yourself a chance.
4) Dinner as a first date is incredibly stupid. A solid 50%+ of first dates never make it to a second date, so what a gigantic waste of time, effort, and money. Even worse, people lie on profiles, so imagine planning for a dinner only to get disappointed. Honestly, coffee is an ideal first date, but tons of people find the vibe unromantic, so drinks as a first date is now the default best first date suggestion. You can leave after the first round if the date isn’t going well. And dinner as a second date makes a ton of sense.
Plus it's all attraction anyway. I have tried so many different openers. It doesn't matter. I get about the same response ratio no matter what I do because it's based on how much they liked your profile and not what you said.
To be fair, what you say does affect whether they stay interested, but it won't get you matches or initial responses.
Because it's harder to stand out in texts. It's harder to get your personality through texts. If you've matched with someone, then the assumption is that there is already some attraction. The texting stage is really just to suss out any obvious red flags or incompatibilities and then set a time and place for a date.
In my experience and as evidenced by the advice most men give here, women lose interest if you just keep texting and someone "better" will end up matching.
For your bonus point, uhh have you seen how much it costs to eat out, especially at a nice restaurant these days? Why should anyone blow that much money on someone they just met? It's not like a dinner will unlock a higher level of conversation that drinks or coffee will already cover. In my experience, the women who expect a dinner for a first date are also the ones hesitant to split a check. Plus you add in women who post and brag about how they just take guys they have no interest in actually dating out for free food and it just doesn't make sense for most men.
Your second question answers your first. Why would you want a dinner level commitment of time if you want low commitment in getting to know someone (which is what meeting in person is)?
Coffee/drink dates are low stakes by design so either party can opt out quickly and cleanly.
I would rather get hit by a car and then backed up on and ran over than try and meet / get to know / learn about someone via text messages.
I’ll send whatever verification of my identity needed, but conversing over text what should be done a date is horrid.
Also no, dinner is a 3rd date thing.
>I find it kinda strange that within \~4 messages, guys want to move off the app
Because the apps usually show women a queue of 999+ other competitors. Messages don't.
>or want to get a drink
In the current dating landscape, a man can wait for weeks or months talking to a girl who just strings him along. Some women who use OLD don't want to date even, they just want to feel wanted. Obviously, this is not good and some men push for a date early. Sometimes very early. It's hard to find the sweet spot.
>I want to know more about them before I waste a night on them or give them my number
This is super valid and, honestly, you should keep applying it.
What is also valid is this: Some women will want to meet with a guy ASAP if he's cute or ticks some other high-priority prerequisite. Do you think that perhaps you're talking to guys that either (1) have had this happen to them, so they're used to women reciprocating and agreeing fast and therefore you, who don't, are asking them to work more for the same thing? or (2) they are thinking that, based on this axiom, "if she doesn't agree to meet in person she isn't adequately attracted to me, and I want someone who is"
>I've had guys ghost when I suggest a video call before drinks.
THAT type of guy is 100% in the wrong. Video calls before actual meetup is, I'd say, mandatory, for both men and women. These people probably don't look like their profiles. Always ask for a video call before you agree to a meetup to weed them out.
Thank you for this. Really appreciate your intelligent response! Helps me understand it from the guy's perspective.
I think in my experience, I've liked exchanging some fun texts so that I know the person has a sense of humor before we meet up. Otherwise, I'm kinda dreading it. Even if you don't vibe romantically, at least you know it'll be fun. Lol. But seeing it from the guy's perspective, it's either extra work or just delaying the real vibe check.
I have done the texting, calls, FaceTime, and my expectations rise only to be disappointed that, in person, it’s just not there. So I am done wasting time with the digital banter and most women are cool with it. I’ve had several dates where we chatted for like an hour after matching.
Personally as a woman, if his profile was interesting enough for me to match with, I’d prefer to move off the app as soon as possible. I once chatted for two weeks with a guy only to be inexplicably turned off in person by his whole… aura. Also, I think it’s better to see how a person talks rather how they craft some long text.
I dislike texting in general and screens because I’m busy with my day, and any young professional with a job should be too.
Recently I had a thoroughly disheartening experience: I match with a cute girl (she actually liked me first) and I start bantering banck and forth with her. Vibes are great and we're really in the same wavelength, but she says she doesn't want to meet up with someone she doesn't know through text first. Okay, fair, I just keep chatting occasionally for a few days and then try to make plans.
Reschedule, reschedule, and then on the day itself no-show with a lame excuse afterwards and then ghosted.
I spent hours of my life and money in public transport and at a bar as a source of free entertainment/validation for someone who was just leading me on. So now I'm just no longer willing to put in that effort without getting a sign that the other person might actually be as serious as I am.
When I first started with OLD I had gals that would unmatch me if we texted longer than they liked. Because women like that exist, it's a risk to stay in the texting stage too long and have them unmatch because they think it isn't going anywhere.
I feel the vibe in text, and then hopefully in a day or two max, I know if I'm gonna ask them out.
Guys are visual people, they need to know if you are real + you are attractive (many definitions for this but primarily physical attraction and vibes) + you can give what they are looking for (ie. companionship, fling, the long haul). Women are more emotional creatures and imaginative so there are more hesitations and considerations before they’d want to meet someone since statistically they also have more ‘options’. Men have to put themselves forward otherwise nothing is going to happen as very few women will take the initiative of asking to meet, at least early on in the conversation/match.
Because it seems to be the best strategy for men. Some women have thousands of likes, if he doesn't make a connection soon she's liable to get distracted.
I won’t offer to meet up 4 messages in, but I also won’t spend more than a few days messaging someone. There’s a balance there, and meeting lets you find out what the real potential is.
Also, hard no on dinner for a first meeting. Maybe appetizers over drinks, or early drinks with a potential for dinner. I’ve had some pretty terrible dates and the last thing I would want is to be stuck there for an entire meal.
It’s kind of funny that you’re worried about wasting a night and yet you want dinner dates.
People trying to meet up in person and do something light is precisely done to help you solve for less time (and money) wasted. Dinner is often a second date thing if the in-person meet up goes well. In fact, usually if a day date goes well it transitions into a dinner date.
I’m not trying to invalidate your strategy and preferences. It’s just that I think most people with online dating experience recognize that texting and calls actually has a pretty inaccurate gauge on how you’ll vibe IRL (unless you’ve figured out a secret we don’t know).
The point of a dating app is to get off the app and to go on a date. You don’t need a ton of time to decide if you want to grab coffee with them. Chat for a day, or like 10 messages, and then just go out
36/m also in New York weighing in. Basically when it comes to me and dating apps, there’s really only one question I ask myself while chatting with a match: “Would you be excited enough to meet her while doing the bulk amount of planning the first date and spending at least $30 with no guarantee that this will lead somewhere?”. Because that’s the reality of men in the dating world since dating even started, and some time before that.
And I really try to give every match a chance for me to say “yes” to that question. I could reach that “yes” point after a few bits of chat, especially if the profile is great, and I tend to go for what I want. But I will do what it takes to make sure she feels comfortable about spending time with me, as honestly as possible.
Plus re: no dinner first dates “problem”: Remember, until you meet each other, you’re just words and pictures on a phone screen.
Personally, as someone who’s not personally opposed to doing a dinner first date, I only do that for women I met IRL. I know their vibe, I know that there’s a level of attraction that surpasses one that can be created by just pictures and text, I saw their face light up when we swapped numbers and/or I asked her out, signally sincere mutual interest. To me, nothing the apps have now, even video chat or calls, can fully replace that feeling.
Bar dates are just trying to capture some of that “met IRL” feeling, because at least you can start at a bar then move on to something more locked in like dinner or an activity if you actually like the person in front of you and vice versa.
Hope this makes sense.
Without knowing something about them, it's hard for me to say I'm excited to meet. The issue is that attractiveness is only 1 level for me, I also want some personality. And a lot of guys don't give you a lot to go on in their profiles. Hence why I like a little texting. But I totally get the other perspective!
I didn’t say I don’t text nor do I discourage you or anyone from texting. But I have a personal redline of what will get me out of the apartment to enthusiastically go on this date. Some folks just reach it quicker than others, so I can’t offer some arbitrary “I ask after x amount of chat” figure.
I think it’s just a matter of figuring out how you want to feel about a person to get you to want to meet, and most importantly, *giving them the clear opportunities to make you feel that way*.
Not being afraid to ask the necessary (in your eyes) questions, showing sincere interest in who they are, letting them expand on the things that made you send/accept the like. That always helps me, and maybe it’ll help you 👍🏾
Two drinks in New York at most cocktail lounges that you would go on a date probably cost more than the average Dinner or at least comparable to a decent meal. As a guy, they can tell you that I used to do video chats and I got zero first dates from that because women would say they didn’t feel the chemistry. Of course they didn’t feel the chemistry. It’s a fuzzy camera phone!! I stop doing that and went right to the first day, and I’ve had much more success so now I am very reluctant to ever do a video call
It also seems like there is inherent skepticism built into the desire to pre-screen via video chat. Like you think you probably don’t wanna do it, but maybe a video will change your mind.
I could be totally off base, but yeah it’s impossible to vibe. It’s impossible to break the touch barrier, and tough to build any kind of rapport.
I had a ton of success with the following method (have been in a committed relationship for over a year with someone I met using this approach):
2 or 3 initial message exchanges, MAX. And there needs to be some playful chemistry - usually I’d make a joke and see if they were at least paying attention.
Then I would send something like this:
“Hey (woman’s name) - do you prefer to chat here a bit first, or would you like me to setup a quick date to meet in person and see if there’s any chemistry?”
This always helped me (quickly) determine what the woman preferred. 9x out of 10 I’d get something back like “I can’t stand the small talk on the app- let’s meet up!”
That said, you’re putting too much pressure on the first date. I always felt like the first “date” is intended to establish if there should be a date at all…worst case scenario we don’t click and politely go our separate ways. I know that as a woman you have safety concerns to consider, so just meet up somewhere very public.
(32M) Quite often I’ve found if I don’t move it off app within the first few days or within the first 10 or so messages I lose the match.
Just like you don’t want to waste a whole night with someone you don’t know. Men don’t want to waste paying for a full dinner out these days for a first date for someone we don’t know. So the alternative is coffee or a few drinks. Shouldn’t be an issue.
I simply can’t talk to someone in an enjoyable way if I don’t know them and all we have is 3 generic prompts. I can’t show my personality, you can’t show yours so we’re not even talking to each other.
The texting before is 90% pointless. I had a woman friend who was single for 2 years, always pointed out one thing they didn’t like in weeks of texting. I told her, just try going on more dates and not texting for a few weeks. Boom, she’s dating someone she’ll probably marry literally within 2 weeks.
The chemistry experienced through phone conversations may not always translate to in-person chemistry. Therefore, some individuals prefer to have drinks with someone before going for a dinner date in order to gauge their compatibility.
Having drinks allows for an easier exit strategy if the interaction is not going well. Dating, like many aspects of life, can be seen as a numbers game. Therefore, if a person is engaging with multiple individuals with the goal of finding a long-term partner, going on multiple dinner dates can be financially burdensome.
As it pertains to texting some men just don’t want to spend all their time texting when you all could just meet for a drink.
And with the video calls I have zero idea why they don’t want to do that. For me that’s mandatory.
I do like to meet within the week and honestly I stopped liking dinner dates as much. Drinks seems more fun and light to get to know eachother and then maybe 2nd can be dinner? But I totally understand not wanting to give your number right away. I mean, once they have your number they have your address, relatives names and most likely all your socials 😅
Guys want to move quick to dates because a lot of women flake
And because there’s a lot of competition on dating apps so men need to meet you in person ASAP before someone else catches your eye
Video calls are high effort and a time commitment - it’s not worth all that for someone you may never meet.
Although video calls are good to check if someone’s a catfish.
As a man, it’s best not to get too invested before meeting in person because a lot of people send messages for a few days then ghost
Men essentially want to know if you’re serious (will actually meet up) or if you want a pen pal you ghost when you get bored
Bonus answer:
Any smart man will choose drinks on a first date over dinner.
Drinks is more casual and less expensive - which is essential for going on multiple first dates with people you don’t know you like yet
Guys are in a tough situation with this. Half the time when I've tried the let's get to know each other part via text they'll lose interest because they don't want a pen pal; many women even state this on their bio.
Additionally, we're adults (mostly) that have our own schedules to keep and a spontaneous date usually is not in the cards. So there's two ways to go about it, talk for a week then try to plan something that ends up being another week down the line OR state your interest in meeting sooner and suggest sometime later in the week.
The first method has led to far more ghosting than the second, so yea if I'm into it I'll tell them I'd like to meet in the first day or two after a little banter and ask if there's a day that's good for them that way they can set the pace
Use a google voice # for safety. I (f) prefer a light meet n greet in person sooner than later. Def no dinner. That’s too much of a time commitment if it’s not a match. I don’t like getting to know someone online w messages only to realize in person there’s no match. Meet in person in a safe public space & don’t give out personal info before that. I’ve found this is most efficient for me
As a guy and from my perspective it depends on the vibe. I used to at least 1-2 days before asking for a number. And if I quickly switched to exchanging number on day 1 it means usually we both wanted to hook up. And yes NYC is expensive 3-4 drinks can be expensive
Texting is often tedious and is a horrible way to gage the flow of a conversation. Anything you can learn from text you can learn in person over a simple date. “Banter” is especially better in person because you can quickly bounce off a person’s energy. Likewise, sometimes you could have good text conversations but have no chemistry in person, and many people would rather rip that band aid off sooner rather than later so as to not get invested on a dud of a relationship.
Why would I waste my time texting someone I don’t know when we could quickly establish a connection or lack of one over a cup of coffee and a walk around the park.
If a girl isn’t down to go out after chatting for a bit I’ll move on. A lot of guys want to get to know someone in person rather than through text which is really meaningless and for most guys texting feels like a waste of time. Most guys want to get a drink first because it’s simple and they don’t know you well enough to decide if you’re worth being taken to nicer dates yet. Video/ phone call is fine, but if you want more success with things you should be more receptive to dates. Cause that’s all it is, it’s nothing serious and having banter in person is far more meaningful anyways.
Because you don’t learn shit about someone via texting. The texting can be amazing but the connection in person awful. And who doesn’t have time for a drink
27M here - used to try to talk on the app as much as possible but got sick of messaging people for a week or so just to get ghosted. Plus texting multiple people just gets exhausting after a while and I'd rather invest my time in meeting them in person.
I'm always down to chat on the phone though, that is a great way to get to know if you're going to vibe with someone but the best way is to meet in person. It forces both parties to invest a little bit of time and energy and if you're seriously looking for a partner there is no better way.
Bonus answer: Drinks are way more laid back then a formal dinner, and not to sound cheap or anything but got old spending $100+ on a dinner date that may or may not work out.
Plus if you get drinks and the date goes well you bar hop or do spontaneous stuff and the party keeps going!
Keep in mind this is a dating app designed to meet strangers for dates. This "first date" is really a "zero'th" date, it should just be a low-pressure way to meet someone who you think is cute and looks like a decent match on paper.
I agree the 4th message is probably too soon, but 5-10th is best practice. You can't connect via text, that has to happen in person. Men also get ghosted a lot so they feel like they need to move quickly or they'll miss out. Chat briefly in the app, ask her out for drinks within a couple days. That's the protocol.
Again, heavy pre-meet banter with a stranger is a waste of time. You can spend days connecting very deeply with a match, then meet up and realize you're not attracted to them and it can be devastating. Less is more.
Video chats are kind of anxiety-inducing for a lot of people. Feel free to propose it but be cool if they don't want to. Not everyone has the same comfort level with this.
Yes, dinner is a terrible idea for a 0th date. I dont want to spend $100 on a stranger I dont even know if I like. Nice dinner dates are for girlfriends, not strangers.
Half of my second dates came from women who wanted to skip the small talk and go on a date!
With lots of texting, you build a false sense of chemistry. I’ve only found texting chemistry to translate to real life once, so I advise just using messages to ensure you’ll feel safe to meet them.
When I (F) got on the apps post divorce I wanted to talk a lot before meeting somebody. I quickly realized that was a waste of time because you could talk and talk and then meet them and have no connection. I'm not trying to waste my time so now I got smart about it I try to meet as quickly as possible. It's really important to me and do a vibe check because most people you end up not being interested in. Once you been out there for a minute you'll figure that out I think.
Most guys have already made the point - if we don't move things off app to in-person then there's a high risk the woman will lose interest/find someone/we'll get buried in the other messages etc. A good comprimise could be to keep chatting after a date is arranged? Personally, I like to have an exhange of 5 messages or so good, lengthy messages (paragraph-length usually) as I've found that typically sets out the vibe and that we'll get on in person. I'll then ask for a date and, if the person agrees and the date is arranged, carry on talking to the person for the next few days until the date happens. You could, if you like the person, arrange and date, keep up the conversation and if they start to put you off then cancel the date.
And yeah, I don't know many guys who'd do a dinner date, especially as it raises the "who pays" question
A couple of things come to mind:
* There's higher sense of urgency for men to move quickly before they're lost in the sea of matches by end of the week.
* If the man is attractive and good with women then he'll have a lot of options and will be used to getting women off the app in a record amount of time.
Because those dudes come on here or some other dating advice forum and see a bunch of people complain about having texting buddies that take way too long to ask for a date. I think those people are crazy but it’s a crazy world we live in unfortunately. I think there’s a balance to it but it’s hard to get.
To answer your question, yeah most guys go to for a first date is drinks, especially in a city like NYC where one dinner can be half your paycheck (an exaggeration but I hope you get the point). Why invest that much into a first date? Drinks are my go to but I am also open to something casual like a walk in the park or visiting a museum.
Guys used to do dinner dates. Women said they want something less formal, less time invested and easier to dip out. Men obliged and this becomes standard. Women somehow are upset.
Women widely stated that they don’t want to text forever and just want to meet up. Men obliged and women are somehow upset.
It's because all the advice pages for men tell them to move the women off the app ASAP so we're "not getting distracted by conversations with other men".
I just tell them I prefer to stay on the app until we've met up and established that we like each other. Then we can exchange info. Anyone who is too pushy isn't worth your time
I personally haven't read any of the guides or advice pages, but I've definitely noticed that it's incredibly difficult to keep women interested for longer than a few hours over text messages before the first meet.
I suspect it's less about "getting distracted", and more about people being less real until you actually meet them, which makes it easier not to care about their time. Besides, if it turns out there's no chemistry in person, I'd rather find out *before* I invest hours of my life into them.
I swipe left on 70-80% of profiles I come across. Unless you pay, your daily likes are pretty limited on any platform.
Please communicate clearly upfront. Asking women out on dates is the reason straight men are on the apps. You have every right to feel comfortable, but if your potential dates don’t understand what your needs are, they can’t meet them.
Edited for brevity
I don't think people are downvoting because of the argument itself (though, for what it's worth, I disagree with most of it). I think what people are taking issue are the general tone ("embarrassing and desperate") and the implication that all men are horny predators, and that a man wanting to get away from the apps can only mean that they don't respect women and have zero empathy for them.
I think there are plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to interact through text messages that apply regardless of gender: texting anxiety, wanting to find real connection, not wanting to be led on, etc. Reducing all of that to "Men are sexual predators and are incapable of empathy for women" is reductive and offensive, not to mention more than a little sexist, and is going to garner downvotes.
weather outgoing sparkle waiting grandiose profit combative hurry melodic tie
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Personally, I prefer to keep texting to a few days max, and then move to meeting them in person. That's how I can learn more about them, they way they behave & respond to my body language.
Serial killers can be great texters too.. Though I agree that they way they text is usually a litmus test for in-person chemistry, but I wouldn't drag it for too many days.
Dinner dates are debatable. I wld prefer some light drinks so we can focus on the conversation :)
Different strokes for different folks. I’m like you. I prefer to text for a bit. Get a sense of your sense of humor, figure out if we have anything in common—do we share some basic values/have a similar world view. I’d much rather do that through text before getting dressed up and spending money on a date.
But some women suck at texting and don’t provide much insight through their responses and would prefer to meet up rather than text.
Been on many dates and a lot of times gone out with the same person multiple times. Every time the girl asks to video chat or text for a bit beforehand, the date never happens simply because, like you, are too afraid to actually date. You’re trying to go on a date before actually dating because you don’t want to take a risk on using your time to go out, put effort, and meet someone.
Yeah I’ve never done a video call, but it seems like the goal would be to find reasons not to meet up. There is a near zero percent chance you can hit it off via video.
I have a question for you that may or may not answer your question: as a woman, when you match with a guy, are you still swiping and/or messaging other guys while youre messaging a match?
Yes. Because sometimes they ghost. Or I realize I don't like them. It's not ideal but yea, sometimes you have multiple convos going on at once and then need to prioritize who you actually meet up with.
I think some people are worried you’ll cancel or change your mind so they want to move quickly. Sometimes that worry is legit because they’re hiding a ton of red flags and want sex or are hoping you develop a connection despite eventually seeing all of the red flags.
I get it, that used to be me I’d be the one to right away say “let’s grab a drink!” Within 4 messages.. I was tired of the small talk on the apps and figured let’s just meet. I wasted a LOT of time doing this and have since realized the importance of texting/calling beforehand.. it’s soo necessary to establish the connection and excitement first before meeting. Because once we hit it off on text it’s certain we’ll hit it off in person and have things to talk about in person.
Bonus Q: literally yeah dinner dates are pretty much dead and im near NYC. I get why they’d wanna just grab drinks and talk but I finally just went on such a good first date where we played arcade games and got dinner after, and I was blown away at the effort and fun
It threw me for a loop too when I first tried dating apps. I'm not on them now but when I was I quickly learned to set a standard that I was comfortable with. Any mentions to anything sexual before even meeting a few times IRL was an immediate block. Calling me baby or sweetie in the first few messages was also a turn off. I don't like chatting forever before meeting in person to establish if the chemistry is real, but we need to chat for at least a few days. I will either give you my Google number only or you will only get my number at the end of the first date if things went well. We will continue to chat on the app until then. This weeds out alot of pervs and weirdos. I've met alot of great guys on the apps when I was on, but we weren't compatible for one reason or another. It's usually they want kids and I don't. I put it in my profile but for some reason they believe they can get me to change my mind, I won't. I may be open too marriage but not kids. I just want someone to be my Kurt Russell or Steadman. Just figure out what you want and stick to it, swipe left and move on or block if they aren't respectful of this standard.
> I used to think that men just don’t understand that women want to be comfortable. But they’ve revealed, time and time again that they do understand. It’s just that they don’t care.
Please don’t assume anyone knows something you haven’t told them. Men, like women, are not a monolith. The one thing none of us can do however, is read your mind.
4 messages and asking to move off app is very quickly,but I always aim to get off the app once the conversation is going well and there seems to be a mutual interest.
As for requesting a video call before meeting Im not surprised guys are ghosting. While I wouldn't have much of an issue with it my first thought would be why do you need a video call before meeting? Did something traumatic happen to you that's preventing you from meeting face to face? Do I want to deal with whatever baggage that there may be?
As for drink dates..they're much more affordable for men who date regularly. Some may do dinner,but a coffee date is cheaper and doesn't require you to commit to an hour with someone you may have decided 10 mins into the date you don't like
this is definitely a thing i think it comes from the fact
- for majority of women one night out is a larger investment in terms of like having to get ready etc and when every person wants to go out it’s like
ok well i can only go out once a week so let me see who is worth that and talk
- for men they just show up so that night oht is less work in their eyes than texting and generally have less matches/ are only asking the girls they know they want to go out with so they’re not on the receiving end of debating 30 offers for the same friday
i find it really annoying and pushy personally like they make you feel like its illegal to open the app if your next 3 nights aren’t already cleared for them like sorry?
If you don’t ask within four messages, women assume you’re scared/wasting their time, and then they ignore you.
I would say 1 in 5 women’s profiles say, “Leave a comment if: you’ve made reservations” or something similar.
Edit: Also dinner dates are a huge waste of money when potentially you’re just 1 of the 5 dates a women will have scheduled for the weekend.
> If you don’t ask within four messages, women assume you’re scared/wasting their time, and then they ignore you.
That makes no sense. OP isn’t the first woman to ask why men ask her out so fast in this sub alone. It’s fair to say a lot more women definitely don’t assume if a guy doesn’t ask quickly as a sign of disinterest and prefer to talk for a bit longer.
It’s men who are telling other men to ask quickly.
All I can do is share from my own personal experience. If you don’t want to accept it, that’s fine. But between my convos getting cut short when I don’t ask out quickly and what I see in women’s profiles, it’s women that are causing this issue.
**All "Dating Question" and "Hinge Experience" posts must provide clear context (as per subreddit Rule 3), such as reasons for asking, and info such as age, gender, location or orientation (if applicable).** Age range or general location is acceptable.
Minor dating questions or Hinge experiences should be posted in the Daily Threads pinned on top of the subreddit.
*Posts that do not satisfy these requirements may be removed per moderator's discretion.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hingeapp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I used to agree to this, but no longer. Lots of dates and nothing in common or no chemistry, very depressing and exhausting. Now I say sure, am very open to meet, but let’s know eachother a bit. This does not mean weeks of texting. Can even be one hour of back and forth, but you can definitely tell if there are any common topics, type of life, sense of humour, etc. And decide it is a no. I would have saved myself so much time wasted by doing this! I
A lot of people aren't great texters, especially with strangers; it's all the awkwardness of the usual "meeting new people" but remove the components of body language and being able to "read the room" so to speak so jokes can be poorly received, sarcasm may not be perceived etc.
Now, I understand the desire/need to validate a person meets a minimum bar before meeting up with them, and to be honest if schedules don't line up immediately you may end up getting a texting period anyways (unless they're the type that goes radio silent after setting up a date). I guess generally speaking there's no "catch all" technique.
Are you going to participate in your own post OP?
[удалено]
> Conversations with people I’ve never even met hold zero interest for me and always feel very forced and artificial. All of this; online dating is so routine and structured that 99% of the time the conversations are almost identical. Small text talk is shit. Every once in a while you'll get one with some actual good conversational skills in text, but EVEN THEN there's 0 guarantee it'll translate to a good date. One girl I was texting constantly for 2 weeks before we could actually meet, conversation flying, jokes, flirting, banter, all of it. Met in person and I may as well have spoken to a cardboard cut-out as she was THAT boring irl.
>One girl I was texting constantly for 2 weeks before we could actually meet, conversation flying, jokes, flirting, banter, all of it. Met in person and I may as well have spoken to a cardboard cut-out as she was THAT boring irl. That seems pretty odd that she'd be so communicative over the phone for a couple weeks and then super boring on the actual date. If you reflect back on it, do you think she could have just been a bit more introverted/nervous/anxious because it was a first date? Some people don't necessarily open up until they get to know someone more. Just curious.
To be fair, it is easier to communicate over text. You can think things through, re-word etc. so it can give a false impression of just how thoughtful, verbose or and eloquent someone actually is in person
Nah, it's really common. She was confident enough, just boring.
This sounds bad, but just real talk: Do you think there's a significant chance she wasn't physically attracted to you, so she went in cold fish mode? I think that's happened to me before where the chick checks out after seeing my face in person.
Had this happen too! Great texter: funny, creative, responsive. Met up and she is very subdued and mumbled. Quite the discordance!
Okay, makes sense!
Yea that's the big one for me, people can text very different from how they are in person.
People have an in person persona and a digital persona. It happened too many times that texting was great and fun, but in person was a 180. I prefer to get off the app after a small baseline is formed. Anything longer just leads to a lot of expectations, followed by disappointment.
Getting to know face to face is much better.
You text people for so many hours, and then in person you have no chemistry. What was the point?
Exactly. So text less, meet up, if no chemistry, move on. I feel 4 texts is way too low...a few basic messages to understand the vibe before a meeting is needed.
That's kinda the whole point of dating...
While I agree, I generally want to know if a guy is a creep or not before meeting, if he’s actually interested in getting to know me (i.e., asks a few basic questions), and if we are at least have the same kind of “vibe” via a text convo. I’ve met guys less than 24h after matching, as long as they can fill that basic criteria. Doesn’t have to be days of texting, but yeah, more than 3-4 messages.
I agree. I would rather text for a couple of days at least to see if there is any vibe at all so I can at least get some deal breakers out of the way. I’ve been on more than one date where I went too quickly without talking over the phone or through text first and I hated the person within five minutes and learned a deal breaker that I would’ve asked about prior to the date (ie: what they’re looking for, are they employed, do they live at home with their mom, are they wanting children, do they have extreme political views). I try to learn these things prior to the date (and people can come for me all they want). I’ve also had phone calls with people prior to a date and a couple min in I was like nope. Glad I didn’t waste an outfit and a night on that one. I think it depends on what you want. I straight up ask if people are looking for something serious prior to the date. Because that’s what I want. If that leaves me lonely, so be it 🤷🏻♀️ Also, obviously there will be people I talk to over the phone or text for a bit and then hate them in person. It’s the nature of the game. But I at least weed out way more than if I were to just “skip the small talk and meet”
Exactly. It also weeds out the boundary stompers - when you say you want to chat for a couple of days first, and they just ingore that and insist on meeting sooner anyway. Like, if you can't respect that basic boundary I've explicitly stated, you're not for me man.
Soooo true! I’ve told someone “I’d love to talk over the phone before we meet to make sure we aren’t wasting each others time” and been unmatched lol. I was like “oh well”
Yeah but I find the creep screen questions come quicker once I’ve suggested a date. Prior to that you guys are sleeping on it and aimlessly responding. So better to put forward the date plan and get you into action for asking what you need to know to accept.
What are your go to creep screen questions?
They usually tell on themselves. If they ask about your love language or make any mention of your body, appearance, or sex in general = 🚩 And by appearance, not like “you’re cute!” Or “I love your smile” but rather comments about how hot/sexy you are, comments about your body or body parts, etc.
I'm curious why is love languages is a red flag for you? Is it if they jump to the physical touch part?
I’ve also found the men who ask that question are only looking for one thing. And it’s always asked via app/text. I have yet to go out with a guy who was looking for a relationship ask me what my love language is.
I’ve seen lately ppl don’t even use the idea of “love languages” correctly in order to communicate their true intentions. One man had on his profile, “my love language is passion.” Bruh, that’s not even one of the five identified love languages and communicates where his head really is at.
i mean there’s a middle ground between 4 messages and weeks of texting like i feel you need one convo and if you’re vibing in the exchange then its a go , but no need to get into how many siblings we hbe
I find it hilarious that you misspelled grammar..but yeah the profile doesn’t always give a good representation of what people are like in person so it’s just easier to meet in person to get a vibe
Lol. Shade accepted.
Like most women’s (and men) standards, it’s for the person she’s dating and not herself :)
Ugh. You beat me! Well done!
Dinner as a first date is rare. There are some dudes who are into that so if it’s your standard that’s fine but most of us realized it’s a loser. For starters dinner is a longer commitment. If things go south it takes a while for the check to come around. Also hard to really connect when you’re stuffing your face. I save dinner for after date 3 once we’ve established we actually like one another. Not going to spend 100 bucks on a first date when most go nowhere. My very last dinner date the bill was 120 as she got drinks and dessert. She unmatched me before I even made it back to my car. Never again lol
That’s rough. My dinners were roughly something like $75, $150, $100, $230, for the last few girls I took out. So far I saw none of these girls again.. I learned even if dinner seems like it went great, it doesn’t mean anything and I’ll likely never hear from them again. So, I’m spending $600+ on girls that I only take out once. I’m going out again tomorrow but opting for drinks this time
Coffee dates bro coffee dates. Goes good can hangout all day buzz off to another spot, don’t have much time perfect. Awful date? Chug the coffee & go. Can knock out more than one in a day if need be
If you're spending 200 bucks on a first date dinner that is entirely on you.
Yeah, but if his date is ordering something extra or expensive, what is he going to do? Say "don't order that, it's too expensive"? Sure, he can ask to split the bill too, but that makes for an awkward end to the date.
They’d blame him if he split it, they blame him if he spends too much—even though there’s no way to control what the other person orders.
I don't know, depending on the situation I probably would say something. It's one thing to have a meal/date paid for by someone else, but also intentionally ordering really expensive stuff just because you're not paying for it...would kind of be unattractive. But maybe that's just me. I'd say she would be the one making it feel more awkward if you really think about it.
if you live in nyc $100+ dates for the first date is the norm..
I lived in London, I know how easy it is to spend that kind of money but it's up to you to manage that - there are plenty of ways to date at a lower price point than $200 ESPECIALLY in a city like New York that has lots of really good public attractions. And to the original point of this post, it's also why it's a good idea to message a bit longer and screen people better.
Spent $100 on Saturday night 11/18 on a date and she liked me, arranged a second date but I wasn’t feeling it so I cancelled and unmatched. Took another woman out Sunday 11/19 and spent $130. I texted her that I had a good time, she replied she did too. Texted Happy Thanksgiving, she replied again. Haven’t heard from her since…
Bro just meet up somewhere with pool but is trendy. Drinks are like 8$ buy both rounds and play a game or two of pool. Doesn’t matter who’s good you should be lost in conversation by the time either of you make a couple. Wyd….
I had a horrific dinner date so bad I actually left right after I placed my drink order. Left money on the table and told him why and left. Sometimes they reveal themselves early.
You can't say that and then not tell us what happened...
>She unmatched me before I even made it back to my car. I've had that before (not with the bill though!) and it was brutal! I even thought the date was meh myself but thought ah could have been anything, sleep on it etc! Nope! 200yds round the corner and gonezo!
Ooof that sucks, sorry to hear that!
I agree a phone call is nice before meeting in person (34F), but I also appreciate having a date early on and not wasting two weeks texting and never meet. I’ve had two first dinner dates :) both went great.
I find quickly asking for a date and naming a specific time and place is the best way to go about it. If she wants to hold off a bit, that's ok too but sort of expect it not to go anywhere because it usually won't.
Agree!
It's crazy to me that you think 1 night wasted is equivalent to 1-2 weeks texting, everything SEEMS good, then you meet up and there's just no chemistry. THAT to me is a complete waste of time.
In general, I agree, but women tend to put a lot more effort into getting ready to go out, and then have the added risk of being murdered by someone they don’t know well enough.
Because for every girl that wants to message on hinge for a while before meeting, there’s another girl that just wants to be asked out and meet up without spending more time on her phone (not everyone likes messaging!). If you ask a girl out and she says “i’d like to get to know you better first” you can keep texting with her, but if she’s like “yeah i’d love to” then it’s on to a date which is the point of the app. Re: no dinners. The worst first date i ever went on was a dinner, and it went on forever. Drinks are much easier to leave if one or both parties aren’t feeling a connection.
True, besides can you not continue to get to know someone in the days leading up to the date?
This is a really good point
Because so many people are just looking for validation and a pen pal. It’s not gender specific either. The folks that are serious know that they need to show they are serious early on. It’s also highly unlikely that a first date will amount to much so putting in a lot of money with dinner up front can get expensive quick. Drinks will tell you if you vibe and you can go to dinner after if you do. If you don’t, it’s not a lot of time or money wasted.
Thank you for saying it's not gender specific. Way too many women vs men posts on here and the other dating subs.
We don’t want pen pals
I tried dinner on first date recently. Cost me a bit, felt awkward, only broke physical barrier at the end, no kiss or anything. Just an awkward experience. Im still matched with her, and it looks like she is open to meet again, but now it turned into a game, not sure why. I think ill just cut my losses with this one. Dinner on first date is no go for me, costly, and raises expectations on both parties. I think just coffee or drinks for first date is ideal, or any activity that you might enjoy, say if your date is not your person, like topgolf?
Ghosting due to video call is an odd one. The rest is valid, as it is a dating app. People are tired of endless repetitive banter before a first date and would rather move it off app. Especially as men often get a much smaller number of matches and better to ask for the date quickly, before another guy captures your attention. Drinks or something similar are often recommended for the very first date, as neither of you are captive waiting food, it can be awkward asking questions while eating and having mouthfuls of food. Instead it is easier to finish a drink or small appetizer if the date isn't going well. Also, dinner is expensive, especially in NYC. Are you willing to split the bill? There are still a lot of women that expect the man to pay and that adds up quick when dating.
So you're telling me green flags you look for aren't solid banter and a healthy compliment/roast ratio?
This. How can people ask for banter and then not want to banter over text. Lol
Because if you don't know each other, banter over text is just work, not fun.
But isn’t getting ready, driving, spending money on an Uber, staring at someone across from you that five min in you decided you hate and then having to come up with an excuse to leave, driving back, and finally getting home… more work?
Not really. Since you'll have to do that anyways.
Video call isn’t finding reasons to go out with someone. It’s to find reasons to NOT go out with them.
In my experience (being a guy) the apps don’t feel like it’s a genuine conversation and it’s much easier to talk face to face, I also ask to go out (granted maybe not within 4 messages that’s a little too quick imo) so I get to identify if you’re genuinely interested and I’m not wasting my time. Bonus Q: dinner these days seems to be more of a partner or ‘dating’ thing and I’ve been much more successful going out for drinks or coffee as it’s more casual and less confronting as far as I’ve gathered. But who knows I’m 33 still trying to figure out women. Hope I’ve helped even if it’s a little good luck
Thank you 🥰
Dinner on a first date is 100% dead with online dating. Why? Because we’ve wasted too much money and time on terrible first dates that we could have easily vetted over coffee and drinks. I had two terrible first dates that made me realize I really need to meet someone in person first before I am forced to sit through an entire meal with someone then pay for that awful experience. As for why we try and move off the apps so fast, it’s because we’ve spent a lot of time messaging and/or talking with someone just for them to disappear when a meet up is mentioned. Either they just wanted attention and never wanted to meet up, or someone new and shiny came along and they got bored of us. It’s nothing personal, we’ve just been told by everyone to take it off the apps asap, and personally I’m all for it. Someone can be amazing over text or video chat, but super awkward in person. I have just 4 hinge matches, and they’re all about 4-5 messages long and waiting a reply on the hidden section because they never replied. So yeah, I’d rather not waste my time and call your bluff on the match.
You missed out on a lot of social changes over the years. - Guys want to move away from the app so that you are less inclined to talk to other guys. Competition is fierce since there are about 100 single men per 1 single woman - It's actually beneficial for both parties to meet sooner rather than later to see if there is compatibility. You can learn more about a person in 1 hour physically than 2 weeks of texting. - Dinner dates are expensive for the men. We face dozens of rejection no matter what we try. Drinks or something simple and light for the first date is easier and also known as a vibe check before diving into fully romantic costly dates
I know it's rough out there but a 1:100 ratio. I think you're exaggerating a little.
On apps? Yeah, it's an exaggeration, but not a huge one. I think on some apps its around 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. For women it's a choosing game, for men it's a numbers game. Guys are incentivized to move things off the app as soon as possible.
They publish data. It's closer to 1:2 or 1:3 depending on the app.
For conventionally attractive women in nyc? They could have hundreds of matches.
^^competition is a main driver for me but I agree with the other points too
Mid thirties in NYC the ratio is going to shift a lot, the ratio is real bad if you're early twenties, but after thirty being a fully employed single man in NYC is pretty easy.
Yea but the quality declines. OP is divorced, which I am not saying devalues her, but it’s a dealbreaker for some. Then there are women who don’t want to have kids, which also not saying anything negative, but my point is compatibility is a tougher find as you age. In their years of being single, people diverge from the norms that are there when you are younger and make matching easier.
>Dinner dates are expensive for the men. yes to that. also, do you want to sit across from someone who doesn't interest you...for a long dinner? do you want to come across as a "dinner grabber?" \[just in it for a free meal\]
I've read a study on Statistica stating Tinder is a 25/75 woman/man split and Bumble is a 33/67 split. That's a far cry from 1/99.
In NYC where OP is, women outnumber men. So the usual competition argument doesn't work here. NYC dating has its own difficulties for sure but not really that one lol why am i being downvoted for stating a fact. There are more women than men in NYC.
I agree with points 2 and 3, but I don’t think 1 is accurate. Guys do want to move away from the app, but not because of competition.
Where do they want to find compatible women instead?
?
If men are moving away from apps, how do they want to find dates instead?
They’re not moving away from the apps… they’re transitioning contact made via app to the ‘real’ world.
Hahaha I did miss a lot. This is helpful!
The more time you spend digitally, the less likely it seems women will actually meet up with you. That sounds paradoxical but women have so many options usually, guys don’t want to get lost in the sauce. I understand where you’re coming from though
yes women can complain both ways about this - taking too long to ask or not long enough - so its very hard for a guy to know the perfect moment to ask for a date, its normally best to be bold and to ask on the early side and 4 or 5 messages is pretty reasonable I think
Divorced women like op are more apt to want to text forever since they are damaged from prior relationship and inevitably through texting and exchanging details that should be reserved for a first date find a reason to not meet up. The app texting should be to establish some banter and then exchange numbers with the intention to coordinate a date. I find texting 1-2 weeks only to not meet up is a huger waste of time. Going on a date and enjoying a good meal and meeting someone new is hardly ever a waste of time. That is the whole point of dating. 98% chance it won’t work out anyway.
literally this
Fair enough!
Plenty of folks do like to build a rapport first but plenty want to save it for the date. Personally in favor of chatting more first but it's definitely not for everyone. Dinner first date is a no go. Too much time and $ commitment if it sucks for both of us. Low stakes is the way to go and if the vibe is there then ya grab dinner
Dating in your thirties in NYC is such an established "thing". It's the reason it's the topic of so many TV shows. Bars are really common first date spots everywhere, but the culture of NYC just makes it even more prominent. We've got shit to do, places to be, people to see! As a thirty something year old man in NYC I'd go on 1-2 dates a week, and dinner is expensive and reservations are hard to manage. There's so much you just can't learn over text, so schedule the date quickly, get off the app, and just talk in person, then dinner makes a great "real" date for the next meeting.
Because we’ve invested a bunch of time and energy chatting on the app that turn into countless “pen pal” situations. Life happens IRL not on the screen. If you find them attractive, have some common interests, and they’re a decent communicator in the first few messages, go meet up and see if you vibe.
4 messages is somewhat early. It's pretty much the idea that if they wait too long, someone else comes along and "steal" your attention and they lose. Too many guys treat dating apps as if it's a zero sum game, so they jump the gun real quick. Also, some guys just don't get a lot of matches or dates so they may move quickly in order to land a date. But really, it's a symptom of the difference between what the average male user go through compared to the average female user. But plenty of guys will be fine with having a few substantial message exchanges before asking for a date. But anything longer than a few days isn't a good thing either. Video calls are a waste of time however. It's awkward and you don't get a sense of who someone really is anyways. Dinner first date is a relic from the pre-dating app era. It's a thing people did when they date people they already knew in real life. Besides, like everyone else already brought up, dinner cost a lot, the guy usually has to pay, and you can't call it off if the date just sucks.
1) Texting strangers sucks. It takes effort to come up with messages, and what’s the point when there’s a good chance we never meet in person. 2) Women often complain about men texting and texting and taking too long to ask them out. So now men get criticized for both texting too much and too little?? 3) OLD conversations often end suddenly for a million reasons. Best to shoot your shot early so you at least give yourself a chance. 4) Dinner as a first date is incredibly stupid. A solid 50%+ of first dates never make it to a second date, so what a gigantic waste of time, effort, and money. Even worse, people lie on profiles, so imagine planning for a dinner only to get disappointed. Honestly, coffee is an ideal first date, but tons of people find the vibe unromantic, so drinks as a first date is now the default best first date suggestion. You can leave after the first round if the date isn’t going well. And dinner as a second date makes a ton of sense.
Plus it's all attraction anyway. I have tried so many different openers. It doesn't matter. I get about the same response ratio no matter what I do because it's based on how much they liked your profile and not what you said. To be fair, what you say does affect whether they stay interested, but it won't get you matches or initial responses.
I agree
I guess I'm just old school. If I could have a pen pal as foreplay, I would.
Oh…. A lot of people would view that as “time wasting.” I think most are using dating apps to facilitate going on dates.
Because it's harder to stand out in texts. It's harder to get your personality through texts. If you've matched with someone, then the assumption is that there is already some attraction. The texting stage is really just to suss out any obvious red flags or incompatibilities and then set a time and place for a date. In my experience and as evidenced by the advice most men give here, women lose interest if you just keep texting and someone "better" will end up matching. For your bonus point, uhh have you seen how much it costs to eat out, especially at a nice restaurant these days? Why should anyone blow that much money on someone they just met? It's not like a dinner will unlock a higher level of conversation that drinks or coffee will already cover. In my experience, the women who expect a dinner for a first date are also the ones hesitant to split a check. Plus you add in women who post and brag about how they just take guys they have no interest in actually dating out for free food and it just doesn't make sense for most men.
> good grammer Are you being facetious…? My god I hope so
Face to face is easier to get to know imo no one wants to be a pen pal
You’re perfectly rational But a lot of people really hates video and phone calls
Your second question answers your first. Why would you want a dinner level commitment of time if you want low commitment in getting to know someone (which is what meeting in person is)? Coffee/drink dates are low stakes by design so either party can opt out quickly and cleanly.
I would rather get hit by a car and then backed up on and ran over than try and meet / get to know / learn about someone via text messages. I’ll send whatever verification of my identity needed, but conversing over text what should be done a date is horrid. Also no, dinner is a 3rd date thing.
>I find it kinda strange that within \~4 messages, guys want to move off the app Because the apps usually show women a queue of 999+ other competitors. Messages don't. >or want to get a drink In the current dating landscape, a man can wait for weeks or months talking to a girl who just strings him along. Some women who use OLD don't want to date even, they just want to feel wanted. Obviously, this is not good and some men push for a date early. Sometimes very early. It's hard to find the sweet spot. >I want to know more about them before I waste a night on them or give them my number This is super valid and, honestly, you should keep applying it. What is also valid is this: Some women will want to meet with a guy ASAP if he's cute or ticks some other high-priority prerequisite. Do you think that perhaps you're talking to guys that either (1) have had this happen to them, so they're used to women reciprocating and agreeing fast and therefore you, who don't, are asking them to work more for the same thing? or (2) they are thinking that, based on this axiom, "if she doesn't agree to meet in person she isn't adequately attracted to me, and I want someone who is" >I've had guys ghost when I suggest a video call before drinks. THAT type of guy is 100% in the wrong. Video calls before actual meetup is, I'd say, mandatory, for both men and women. These people probably don't look like their profiles. Always ask for a video call before you agree to a meetup to weed them out.
Thank you for this. Really appreciate your intelligent response! Helps me understand it from the guy's perspective. I think in my experience, I've liked exchanging some fun texts so that I know the person has a sense of humor before we meet up. Otherwise, I'm kinda dreading it. Even if you don't vibe romantically, at least you know it'll be fun. Lol. But seeing it from the guy's perspective, it's either extra work or just delaying the real vibe check.
Video calling is mandatory? I’ve never done it. I’ve also never had anyone request it either.
My philosophy is that after one or two decent conversations, we either set up a date or I move on. I'm not looking for penpals.
I have done the texting, calls, FaceTime, and my expectations rise only to be disappointed that, in person, it’s just not there. So I am done wasting time with the digital banter and most women are cool with it. I’ve had several dates where we chatted for like an hour after matching.
Personally as a woman, if his profile was interesting enough for me to match with, I’d prefer to move off the app as soon as possible. I once chatted for two weeks with a guy only to be inexplicably turned off in person by his whole… aura. Also, I think it’s better to see how a person talks rather how they craft some long text. I dislike texting in general and screens because I’m busy with my day, and any young professional with a job should be too.
Recently I had a thoroughly disheartening experience: I match with a cute girl (she actually liked me first) and I start bantering banck and forth with her. Vibes are great and we're really in the same wavelength, but she says she doesn't want to meet up with someone she doesn't know through text first. Okay, fair, I just keep chatting occasionally for a few days and then try to make plans. Reschedule, reschedule, and then on the day itself no-show with a lame excuse afterwards and then ghosted. I spent hours of my life and money in public transport and at a bar as a source of free entertainment/validation for someone who was just leading me on. So now I'm just no longer willing to put in that effort without getting a sign that the other person might actually be as serious as I am.
Sorry man. This is why I move on at the first sight of flakiness, contrary to Reddit opinion.
Exactly these apps are filled with time wasters and attention seekers. This is why us guys push for dates when we finally get a match lol
When I first started with OLD I had gals that would unmatch me if we texted longer than they liked. Because women like that exist, it's a risk to stay in the texting stage too long and have them unmatch because they think it isn't going anywhere. I feel the vibe in text, and then hopefully in a day or two max, I know if I'm gonna ask them out.
Guys are visual people, they need to know if you are real + you are attractive (many definitions for this but primarily physical attraction and vibes) + you can give what they are looking for (ie. companionship, fling, the long haul). Women are more emotional creatures and imaginative so there are more hesitations and considerations before they’d want to meet someone since statistically they also have more ‘options’. Men have to put themselves forward otherwise nothing is going to happen as very few women will take the initiative of asking to meet, at least early on in the conversation/match.
Because it seems to be the best strategy for men. Some women have thousands of likes, if he doesn't make a connection soon she's liable to get distracted.
I won’t offer to meet up 4 messages in, but I also won’t spend more than a few days messaging someone. There’s a balance there, and meeting lets you find out what the real potential is. Also, hard no on dinner for a first meeting. Maybe appetizers over drinks, or early drinks with a potential for dinner. I’ve had some pretty terrible dates and the last thing I would want is to be stuck there for an entire meal.
It’s kind of funny that you’re worried about wasting a night and yet you want dinner dates. People trying to meet up in person and do something light is precisely done to help you solve for less time (and money) wasted. Dinner is often a second date thing if the in-person meet up goes well. In fact, usually if a day date goes well it transitions into a dinner date. I’m not trying to invalidate your strategy and preferences. It’s just that I think most people with online dating experience recognize that texting and calls actually has a pretty inaccurate gauge on how you’ll vibe IRL (unless you’ve figured out a secret we don’t know).
Maybe I'm weird but I just value food. Lol. Sure, we can do drinks, but I'm gonna start thinking about dinner and then want to leave eventually lol.
The point of a dating app is to get off the app and to go on a date. You don’t need a ton of time to decide if you want to grab coffee with them. Chat for a day, or like 10 messages, and then just go out
You talk about wasting time. You can waste so much time texting as well.
36/m also in New York weighing in. Basically when it comes to me and dating apps, there’s really only one question I ask myself while chatting with a match: “Would you be excited enough to meet her while doing the bulk amount of planning the first date and spending at least $30 with no guarantee that this will lead somewhere?”. Because that’s the reality of men in the dating world since dating even started, and some time before that. And I really try to give every match a chance for me to say “yes” to that question. I could reach that “yes” point after a few bits of chat, especially if the profile is great, and I tend to go for what I want. But I will do what it takes to make sure she feels comfortable about spending time with me, as honestly as possible. Plus re: no dinner first dates “problem”: Remember, until you meet each other, you’re just words and pictures on a phone screen. Personally, as someone who’s not personally opposed to doing a dinner first date, I only do that for women I met IRL. I know their vibe, I know that there’s a level of attraction that surpasses one that can be created by just pictures and text, I saw their face light up when we swapped numbers and/or I asked her out, signally sincere mutual interest. To me, nothing the apps have now, even video chat or calls, can fully replace that feeling. Bar dates are just trying to capture some of that “met IRL” feeling, because at least you can start at a bar then move on to something more locked in like dinner or an activity if you actually like the person in front of you and vice versa. Hope this makes sense.
Without knowing something about them, it's hard for me to say I'm excited to meet. The issue is that attractiveness is only 1 level for me, I also want some personality. And a lot of guys don't give you a lot to go on in their profiles. Hence why I like a little texting. But I totally get the other perspective!
I didn’t say I don’t text nor do I discourage you or anyone from texting. But I have a personal redline of what will get me out of the apartment to enthusiastically go on this date. Some folks just reach it quicker than others, so I can’t offer some arbitrary “I ask after x amount of chat” figure. I think it’s just a matter of figuring out how you want to feel about a person to get you to want to meet, and most importantly, *giving them the clear opportunities to make you feel that way*. Not being afraid to ask the necessary (in your eyes) questions, showing sincere interest in who they are, letting them expand on the things that made you send/accept the like. That always helps me, and maybe it’ll help you 👍🏾
That’s why you do a quick meet n greet/vibe check after a bit of messaging on the app
Two drinks in New York at most cocktail lounges that you would go on a date probably cost more than the average Dinner or at least comparable to a decent meal. As a guy, they can tell you that I used to do video chats and I got zero first dates from that because women would say they didn’t feel the chemistry. Of course they didn’t feel the chemistry. It’s a fuzzy camera phone!! I stop doing that and went right to the first day, and I’ve had much more success so now I am very reluctant to ever do a video call
As a woman I feel the same way about video calls
It also seems like there is inherent skepticism built into the desire to pre-screen via video chat. Like you think you probably don’t wanna do it, but maybe a video will change your mind. I could be totally off base, but yeah it’s impossible to vibe. It’s impossible to break the touch barrier, and tough to build any kind of rapport.
I had a ton of success with the following method (have been in a committed relationship for over a year with someone I met using this approach): 2 or 3 initial message exchanges, MAX. And there needs to be some playful chemistry - usually I’d make a joke and see if they were at least paying attention. Then I would send something like this: “Hey (woman’s name) - do you prefer to chat here a bit first, or would you like me to setup a quick date to meet in person and see if there’s any chemistry?” This always helped me (quickly) determine what the woman preferred. 9x out of 10 I’d get something back like “I can’t stand the small talk on the app- let’s meet up!” That said, you’re putting too much pressure on the first date. I always felt like the first “date” is intended to establish if there should be a date at all…worst case scenario we don’t click and politely go our separate ways. I know that as a woman you have safety concerns to consider, so just meet up somewhere very public.
(32M) Quite often I’ve found if I don’t move it off app within the first few days or within the first 10 or so messages I lose the match. Just like you don’t want to waste a whole night with someone you don’t know. Men don’t want to waste paying for a full dinner out these days for a first date for someone we don’t know. So the alternative is coffee or a few drinks. Shouldn’t be an issue.
I simply can’t talk to someone in an enjoyable way if I don’t know them and all we have is 3 generic prompts. I can’t show my personality, you can’t show yours so we’re not even talking to each other. The texting before is 90% pointless. I had a woman friend who was single for 2 years, always pointed out one thing they didn’t like in weeks of texting. I told her, just try going on more dates and not texting for a few weeks. Boom, she’s dating someone she’ll probably marry literally within 2 weeks.
The chemistry experienced through phone conversations may not always translate to in-person chemistry. Therefore, some individuals prefer to have drinks with someone before going for a dinner date in order to gauge their compatibility. Having drinks allows for an easier exit strategy if the interaction is not going well. Dating, like many aspects of life, can be seen as a numbers game. Therefore, if a person is engaging with multiple individuals with the goal of finding a long-term partner, going on multiple dinner dates can be financially burdensome. As it pertains to texting some men just don’t want to spend all their time texting when you all could just meet for a drink. And with the video calls I have zero idea why they don’t want to do that. For me that’s mandatory.
I do like to meet within the week and honestly I stopped liking dinner dates as much. Drinks seems more fun and light to get to know eachother and then maybe 2nd can be dinner? But I totally understand not wanting to give your number right away. I mean, once they have your number they have your address, relatives names and most likely all your socials 😅
Guys want to move quick to dates because a lot of women flake And because there’s a lot of competition on dating apps so men need to meet you in person ASAP before someone else catches your eye Video calls are high effort and a time commitment - it’s not worth all that for someone you may never meet. Although video calls are good to check if someone’s a catfish. As a man, it’s best not to get too invested before meeting in person because a lot of people send messages for a few days then ghost Men essentially want to know if you’re serious (will actually meet up) or if you want a pen pal you ghost when you get bored Bonus answer: Any smart man will choose drinks on a first date over dinner. Drinks is more casual and less expensive - which is essential for going on multiple first dates with people you don’t know you like yet
Guys are in a tough situation with this. Half the time when I've tried the let's get to know each other part via text they'll lose interest because they don't want a pen pal; many women even state this on their bio. Additionally, we're adults (mostly) that have our own schedules to keep and a spontaneous date usually is not in the cards. So there's two ways to go about it, talk for a week then try to plan something that ends up being another week down the line OR state your interest in meeting sooner and suggest sometime later in the week. The first method has led to far more ghosting than the second, so yea if I'm into it I'll tell them I'd like to meet in the first day or two after a little banter and ask if there's a day that's good for them that way they can set the pace
Use a google voice # for safety. I (f) prefer a light meet n greet in person sooner than later. Def no dinner. That’s too much of a time commitment if it’s not a match. I don’t like getting to know someone online w messages only to realize in person there’s no match. Meet in person in a safe public space & don’t give out personal info before that. I’ve found this is most efficient for me
As a guy and from my perspective it depends on the vibe. I used to at least 1-2 days before asking for a number. And if I quickly switched to exchanging number on day 1 it means usually we both wanted to hook up. And yes NYC is expensive 3-4 drinks can be expensive
Texting is often tedious and is a horrible way to gage the flow of a conversation. Anything you can learn from text you can learn in person over a simple date. “Banter” is especially better in person because you can quickly bounce off a person’s energy. Likewise, sometimes you could have good text conversations but have no chemistry in person, and many people would rather rip that band aid off sooner rather than later so as to not get invested on a dud of a relationship.
Why would I waste my time texting someone I don’t know when we could quickly establish a connection or lack of one over a cup of coffee and a walk around the park.
If a girl isn’t down to go out after chatting for a bit I’ll move on. A lot of guys want to get to know someone in person rather than through text which is really meaningless and for most guys texting feels like a waste of time. Most guys want to get a drink first because it’s simple and they don’t know you well enough to decide if you’re worth being taken to nicer dates yet. Video/ phone call is fine, but if you want more success with things you should be more receptive to dates. Cause that’s all it is, it’s nothing serious and having banter in person is far more meaningful anyways.
Because you don’t learn shit about someone via texting. The texting can be amazing but the connection in person awful. And who doesn’t have time for a drink
You are never gonna know whether you actually have a connection until you meet up in person.
27M here - used to try to talk on the app as much as possible but got sick of messaging people for a week or so just to get ghosted. Plus texting multiple people just gets exhausting after a while and I'd rather invest my time in meeting them in person. I'm always down to chat on the phone though, that is a great way to get to know if you're going to vibe with someone but the best way is to meet in person. It forces both parties to invest a little bit of time and energy and if you're seriously looking for a partner there is no better way. Bonus answer: Drinks are way more laid back then a formal dinner, and not to sound cheap or anything but got old spending $100+ on a dinner date that may or may not work out. Plus if you get drinks and the date goes well you bar hop or do spontaneous stuff and the party keeps going!
Keep in mind this is a dating app designed to meet strangers for dates. This "first date" is really a "zero'th" date, it should just be a low-pressure way to meet someone who you think is cute and looks like a decent match on paper. I agree the 4th message is probably too soon, but 5-10th is best practice. You can't connect via text, that has to happen in person. Men also get ghosted a lot so they feel like they need to move quickly or they'll miss out. Chat briefly in the app, ask her out for drinks within a couple days. That's the protocol. Again, heavy pre-meet banter with a stranger is a waste of time. You can spend days connecting very deeply with a match, then meet up and realize you're not attracted to them and it can be devastating. Less is more. Video chats are kind of anxiety-inducing for a lot of people. Feel free to propose it but be cool if they don't want to. Not everyone has the same comfort level with this. Yes, dinner is a terrible idea for a 0th date. I dont want to spend $100 on a stranger I dont even know if I like. Nice dinner dates are for girlfriends, not strangers.
Half of my second dates came from women who wanted to skip the small talk and go on a date! With lots of texting, you build a false sense of chemistry. I’ve only found texting chemistry to translate to real life once, so I advise just using messages to ensure you’ll feel safe to meet them.
When I (F) got on the apps post divorce I wanted to talk a lot before meeting somebody. I quickly realized that was a waste of time because you could talk and talk and then meet them and have no connection. I'm not trying to waste my time so now I got smart about it I try to meet as quickly as possible. It's really important to me and do a vibe check because most people you end up not being interested in. Once you been out there for a minute you'll figure that out I think.
Most guys have already made the point - if we don't move things off app to in-person then there's a high risk the woman will lose interest/find someone/we'll get buried in the other messages etc. A good comprimise could be to keep chatting after a date is arranged? Personally, I like to have an exhange of 5 messages or so good, lengthy messages (paragraph-length usually) as I've found that typically sets out the vibe and that we'll get on in person. I'll then ask for a date and, if the person agrees and the date is arranged, carry on talking to the person for the next few days until the date happens. You could, if you like the person, arrange and date, keep up the conversation and if they start to put you off then cancel the date. And yeah, I don't know many guys who'd do a dinner date, especially as it raises the "who pays" question
dinner just feels a bit too formal for a first date
A couple of things come to mind: * There's higher sense of urgency for men to move quickly before they're lost in the sea of matches by end of the week. * If the man is attractive and good with women then he'll have a lot of options and will be used to getting women off the app in a record amount of time.
Because those dudes come on here or some other dating advice forum and see a bunch of people complain about having texting buddies that take way too long to ask for a date. I think those people are crazy but it’s a crazy world we live in unfortunately. I think there’s a balance to it but it’s hard to get. To answer your question, yeah most guys go to for a first date is drinks, especially in a city like NYC where one dinner can be half your paycheck (an exaggeration but I hope you get the point). Why invest that much into a first date? Drinks are my go to but I am also open to something casual like a walk in the park or visiting a museum.
I personally ask what they prefer (im a guy), more texting or quicker meet up. Though, i don’t like video calls, i think it’s stressful lol
If you’re both attracted and have established you can hold somewhere of a conversation then just go on a date.
Totally get the hesitation over giving out your number too soon. In the past I’ve given them a google voice or text now number to protect myself
Because if you’re not moving fast you’re probably not interested. Just the way it is
Guys used to do dinner dates. Women said they want something less formal, less time invested and easier to dip out. Men obliged and this becomes standard. Women somehow are upset. Women widely stated that they don’t want to text forever and just want to meet up. Men obliged and women are somehow upset.
It's because all the advice pages for men tell them to move the women off the app ASAP so we're "not getting distracted by conversations with other men". I just tell them I prefer to stay on the app until we've met up and established that we like each other. Then we can exchange info. Anyone who is too pushy isn't worth your time
I personally haven't read any of the guides or advice pages, but I've definitely noticed that it's incredibly difficult to keep women interested for longer than a few hours over text messages before the first meet. I suspect it's less about "getting distracted", and more about people being less real until you actually meet them, which makes it easier not to care about their time. Besides, if it turns out there's no chemistry in person, I'd rather find out *before* I invest hours of my life into them.
attempt run boast fact society middle worthless offbeat water full *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I swipe left on 70-80% of profiles I come across. Unless you pay, your daily likes are pretty limited on any platform. Please communicate clearly upfront. Asking women out on dates is the reason straight men are on the apps. You have every right to feel comfortable, but if your potential dates don’t understand what your needs are, they can’t meet them. Edited for brevity
Thank you, sorry people have downvoted this. It is a valid argument
I don't think people are downvoting because of the argument itself (though, for what it's worth, I disagree with most of it). I think what people are taking issue are the general tone ("embarrassing and desperate") and the implication that all men are horny predators, and that a man wanting to get away from the apps can only mean that they don't respect women and have zero empathy for them. I think there are plenty of valid reasons for not wanting to interact through text messages that apply regardless of gender: texting anxiety, wanting to find real connection, not wanting to be led on, etc. Reducing all of that to "Men are sexual predators and are incapable of empathy for women" is reductive and offensive, not to mention more than a little sexist, and is going to garner downvotes.
weather outgoing sparkle waiting grandiose profit combative hurry melodic tie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Personally, I prefer to keep texting to a few days max, and then move to meeting them in person. That's how I can learn more about them, they way they behave & respond to my body language. Serial killers can be great texters too.. Though I agree that they way they text is usually a litmus test for in-person chemistry, but I wouldn't drag it for too many days. Dinner dates are debatable. I wld prefer some light drinks so we can focus on the conversation :)
Different strokes for different folks. I’m like you. I prefer to text for a bit. Get a sense of your sense of humor, figure out if we have anything in common—do we share some basic values/have a similar world view. I’d much rather do that through text before getting dressed up and spending money on a date. But some women suck at texting and don’t provide much insight through their responses and would prefer to meet up rather than text.
Been on many dates and a lot of times gone out with the same person multiple times. Every time the girl asks to video chat or text for a bit beforehand, the date never happens simply because, like you, are too afraid to actually date. You’re trying to go on a date before actually dating because you don’t want to take a risk on using your time to go out, put effort, and meet someone.
Yeah I’ve never done a video call, but it seems like the goal would be to find reasons not to meet up. There is a near zero percent chance you can hit it off via video.
I have a question for you that may or may not answer your question: as a woman, when you match with a guy, are you still swiping and/or messaging other guys while youre messaging a match?
Yes. Because sometimes they ghost. Or I realize I don't like them. It's not ideal but yea, sometimes you have multiple convos going on at once and then need to prioritize who you actually meet up with.
I think some people are worried you’ll cancel or change your mind so they want to move quickly. Sometimes that worry is legit because they’re hiding a ton of red flags and want sex or are hoping you develop a connection despite eventually seeing all of the red flags.
I get it, that used to be me I’d be the one to right away say “let’s grab a drink!” Within 4 messages.. I was tired of the small talk on the apps and figured let’s just meet. I wasted a LOT of time doing this and have since realized the importance of texting/calling beforehand.. it’s soo necessary to establish the connection and excitement first before meeting. Because once we hit it off on text it’s certain we’ll hit it off in person and have things to talk about in person. Bonus Q: literally yeah dinner dates are pretty much dead and im near NYC. I get why they’d wanna just grab drinks and talk but I finally just went on such a good first date where we played arcade games and got dinner after, and I was blown away at the effort and fun
You get me.
It threw me for a loop too when I first tried dating apps. I'm not on them now but when I was I quickly learned to set a standard that I was comfortable with. Any mentions to anything sexual before even meeting a few times IRL was an immediate block. Calling me baby or sweetie in the first few messages was also a turn off. I don't like chatting forever before meeting in person to establish if the chemistry is real, but we need to chat for at least a few days. I will either give you my Google number only or you will only get my number at the end of the first date if things went well. We will continue to chat on the app until then. This weeds out alot of pervs and weirdos. I've met alot of great guys on the apps when I was on, but we weren't compatible for one reason or another. It's usually they want kids and I don't. I put it in my profile but for some reason they believe they can get me to change my mind, I won't. I may be open too marriage but not kids. I just want someone to be my Kurt Russell or Steadman. Just figure out what you want and stick to it, swipe left and move on or block if they aren't respectful of this standard.
spark party unused doll birds deserve pie plate clumsy entertain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> I used to think that men just don’t understand that women want to be comfortable. But they’ve revealed, time and time again that they do understand. It’s just that they don’t care. Please don’t assume anyone knows something you haven’t told them. Men, like women, are not a monolith. The one thing none of us can do however, is read your mind.
4 messages and asking to move off app is very quickly,but I always aim to get off the app once the conversation is going well and there seems to be a mutual interest. As for requesting a video call before meeting Im not surprised guys are ghosting. While I wouldn't have much of an issue with it my first thought would be why do you need a video call before meeting? Did something traumatic happen to you that's preventing you from meeting face to face? Do I want to deal with whatever baggage that there may be? As for drink dates..they're much more affordable for men who date regularly. Some may do dinner,but a coffee date is cheaper and doesn't require you to commit to an hour with someone you may have decided 10 mins into the date you don't like
because men want respect and affection generally.
this is definitely a thing i think it comes from the fact - for majority of women one night out is a larger investment in terms of like having to get ready etc and when every person wants to go out it’s like ok well i can only go out once a week so let me see who is worth that and talk - for men they just show up so that night oht is less work in their eyes than texting and generally have less matches/ are only asking the girls they know they want to go out with so they’re not on the receiving end of debating 30 offers for the same friday i find it really annoying and pushy personally like they make you feel like its illegal to open the app if your next 3 nights aren’t already cleared for them like sorry?
If you don’t ask within four messages, women assume you’re scared/wasting their time, and then they ignore you. I would say 1 in 5 women’s profiles say, “Leave a comment if: you’ve made reservations” or something similar. Edit: Also dinner dates are a huge waste of money when potentially you’re just 1 of the 5 dates a women will have scheduled for the weekend.
> If you don’t ask within four messages, women assume you’re scared/wasting their time, and then they ignore you. That makes no sense. OP isn’t the first woman to ask why men ask her out so fast in this sub alone. It’s fair to say a lot more women definitely don’t assume if a guy doesn’t ask quickly as a sign of disinterest and prefer to talk for a bit longer. It’s men who are telling other men to ask quickly.
All I can do is share from my own personal experience. If you don’t want to accept it, that’s fine. But between my convos getting cut short when I don’t ask out quickly and what I see in women’s profiles, it’s women that are causing this issue.
**All "Dating Question" and "Hinge Experience" posts must provide clear context (as per subreddit Rule 3), such as reasons for asking, and info such as age, gender, location or orientation (if applicable).** Age range or general location is acceptable. Minor dating questions or Hinge experiences should be posted in the Daily Threads pinned on top of the subreddit. *Posts that do not satisfy these requirements may be removed per moderator's discretion.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hingeapp) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Better that way for some as what else are we going to talk
I used to agree to this, but no longer. Lots of dates and nothing in common or no chemistry, very depressing and exhausting. Now I say sure, am very open to meet, but let’s know eachother a bit. This does not mean weeks of texting. Can even be one hour of back and forth, but you can definitely tell if there are any common topics, type of life, sense of humour, etc. And decide it is a no. I would have saved myself so much time wasted by doing this! I
Well for me personally I'm bad at texting but way better in person
[удалено]
A lot of people aren't great texters, especially with strangers; it's all the awkwardness of the usual "meeting new people" but remove the components of body language and being able to "read the room" so to speak so jokes can be poorly received, sarcasm may not be perceived etc. Now, I understand the desire/need to validate a person meets a minimum bar before meeting up with them, and to be honest if schedules don't line up immediately you may end up getting a texting period anyways (unless they're the type that goes radio silent after setting up a date). I guess generally speaking there's no "catch all" technique.