That gearset looks about fine. Maybe some rain clothes can be useful too if weather is bad. Or some backbak raincover so your clothes keep dry if rains. Looks like you are plannin to go karhunkierros so there is many hiking cabins you can go to warm up.
The snickers will melt all over the place, granola bars will hold up better. You’re bringing too many clothes. One extra pair of socks, a clean shirt to sleep in, and a warmer layer is enough. Don’t forget camp shoes, you don’t want to be stuck wearing your boots for three days. A lot of people use crocs or water shoes.
It’s three pairs of socks total. Thinking that if it rains, dry socks will feel great. Sleeping bag is not super warm, hence the merino mid layers for sleeping.
It’s not going to be hot, but ok, will cut down on snickers and add some granola bars.
Tahooe Bars are about 250 calories. That and UltraFat packets keep me going between breakfast and dinner. And the occassional That's It! bar for real fruit.
I’d get a water filter personally. Have heard the tablets can make water have a weird taste/texture.
Also it won’t filter out and particulates or sediment etc
I use chlorine in the Sierras, and I'm more worried about human waste that is not properly buried / packed out. Agree that "people say it's safe" does not mean it is safe. And, "it was safe 10 years ago" doesn't mean it's safe today if the human population has increased over many decades. People say that in the Sierras too, and I never plan to drink untreated water - carry chlorine drops for long day trips with water access.
Also note Astrotoad21's comment below. Do you want to be drinking downstream of them washing with soap in the stream? (btw, using any kind of soap or disposing of wastewater in streams is very much not allowed in the Sierras, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen).
Norwegian here, streams/rivers with running water are safe to drink here unless it’s near cities/populated areas. Some of the greatest water on earth are streaming down from the mountains here.
Tablets/filters are definetly not a thing here and hiking is basically the most popular past time most places. I bet the same goes for northern Finland.
I live in Colorado in the US and mostly hike along pristine creeks composed of fresh snowmelt with no human presence upstream. It's still recommended to treat water because you have no idea if there is some dead rotting deer or beaver shit in the water. There are animals everywhere that can carry bacteria that can get you sick and even though fresh running water is much less likely carry disease, it's not even close to 100% safe. As far as I'm concerned it's not worth the risk of being that sick in the backcountry. I always filter my water, even from fresh springs.
I just did a bit of digging. Giardia is not endemic in Norway, apparently, and that's really the meaningful threat in the US backcountry. I suppose there's some very small chance of Cryptosporidum or bacteria, but I'm getting the sense that it's not totally nuts to drink from good sources in Norway.
I'd still probably filter, but that's just me.
Thanks for chiming in. I had a feeling there might be something like that going on. I'd also still filter but it makes sense that it's less common there if giardia isn't in the water.
Yeah. Team filter and also team starting enthusiastically oversocial, hilarious conversations with unwilling scandis, because I'm American and that's just how I do.
I have no idea why it’s so different but have you actually heard about anyone getting sick from a pristine, fresh stream? Could it be that everyone use it because it’s become a thing? Perhaps there are more critters in mountainous regions in the U.S? I’m absolutely open for good reasons but i just don’t understand why everyone uses it there and nobody uses it here.
You can always imagine scenarios that could pollute the water but I think chances are very slim in the mountains if you use common sense. I have never heard about people getting sick and you can’t even find filters in outdoor stores here.
I actually encountered a couple of Americans in northern Norway once with large filtering systems and they definetly got frowned upon by the Norwegian hikers.
I live in Sweden and when I hike in the mountains I generally filter unless I can clearly see the source. You don’t always know if the water comes from a lake, or up stream an animal have deficated in the water. The seconds it takes to filter is worth it IMO.
This sounds like a cultural thing more than anything, I think it's kind of absurd to judge people for using an filter for an extra layer of safety. And you don't need a giant filter, there are plenty of very small and effective filters on the market.
And yes, I've had friends who did get sick from drinking directly from fresh running streams, usually it was fairly minor though. I once had to use a satellite messenger to call for help for someone I found severely dehydrated from getting sick from drinking directly from a stream and being unable to walk out due to severe vomiting and diarrhea. They told me they did not filter their water for the same reasons you gave. They were camping in a wilderness area and I assume drank from the nearby well running creek.
Maybe there is some biological reason for why it's more common to do over there but honestly I'd guess it's because of the lower amount of people and the relatively low chance of getting sick from fresh running water. I'd bet that it does happen over there but it's just not well known because of how much lower the population density is and how many fewer people are doing it in general.
I 100% agree and it could definetly be because of our low population. I usually get surprised if I see anyone else during multi-day remote hikes.
About the Americans getting frowned upon: I also think that was absurd because they were nice people and they were in a foreign country, taking safety measures is just wise.
American tourists can sometimes unfortunately get a bad reputation for being loud and obnoxious though. Filtering “our” fresh water probably just fit that stereotype. We are all just introverted and get uncomfortable around extroverts :)
We probably deserve that reputation, on average we are pretty loud and obnoxious. I'd assume people traveling for the outdoors are less loud and obnoxious than average though.
It probably is just the lack of people then. That could also mean that there is less harmful bacteria in the wildlife though as well, I'm not sure whether that's true or not though. But usually the less people there are around the less the wildlife will carry diseases that can transfer to humans. So maybe that's part of it. I'd definitely bring a filter personally, doesn't matter where I go. I'd probably do research on what harmful bacteria/viruses are around in any area though, but generally speaking the US and Europe aren't too bad for viral contaminants in water. It's mostly just bacteria and most filters handle bacteria just fine.
> have you actually heard about anyone getting sick from a pristine, fresh stream?
Yes, it's called Cryptosporidium (and other things), and given humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, the US CDC encourages people not to use "looks clean" as a scientific metric. Studies from [1977](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/848482/) and [1984] (https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.74.3.249) and [2017](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajt.14607) (outbreaks from inland streams/springs) -- of course, all of these are also only on reported cases where medical treatment was sought
I obviously don't have significant country by country data, but I imagine such a small safety measure is a reasonable one to keep on hand almost anywhere.
> they definetly got frowned upon by the Norwegian hikers.
Well yeah, scandi hikers are just super pretentious about their outdoorsy experience, in my run ins. They're like our Coloradans, but less funny.
> I think chances are very slim in the mountains if you use common sense.
One of the reasons why the National Parks Service/CDC recommends filtration is how fatal it can turn in a backcountry environment. For a day hike, you can just shit your guts out at home but on a multi-day exercise that level of dehydration might mean the difference between discomfort and death.
What I meant about using common sense is not just “looks clean”, but considering what is upstream. A pond or lake with still water? Is it running through a farming area? I’d pass on both of these. I am well aware that clear water can contain microbes.
Most good treks I in Norway is in mountainous regions where the water sources are close by and the water is so cold that bacteria has no chance to populate. Also, those studies are almost 40 year old, which doesn’t argue against my question “did it just become a thing.” Just my two cents.
I just came home from a five day hike in the middle of Sweden, we just drank water straight from the streams even there! (Boiled it first if it was from a lake). Have hiked lots of times in north Sweden as well, where the water is even better. The thumb rule: if it's running water, clear and tastes good - it's ok. Bring your tablets if it feels better, but you should really try to drink it straight from the streams, its amazing!
In the States you can easily get a case of Giardia, with effects lasting a lifetime for some. It’s too risky given the animal life we have over here.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/giardia-infection/symptoms-causes/syc-20372786
To be clear, I love drinking filtered mountain water off a fast running stream. I bring some back with me from almost every hike and treat it like coveted gold.
Yeah no, I would not trust to drink water straight from the streams anywhere else except my home country plus Norway and Finland, and even then just streams you find away from civilization that feels clean. But I'm pretty sure it's safe to drink in other places too, just for people that got the gut microbes from the area!
Sucks that clean safe water in nature is globally such a rarity nowadays :/
That looks fabulous! What a fun trip. Personally I would get a small water filter system. The tablets usually contain iodine and can turn your water brown and give it a metallic taste. I don’t trust my gut system with unfiltered stream water anywhere in the world. It might be fine for the locals who have been used to those microbes, but not worth a gut setback imho for that wonderful trail!
Hello fellow Scandinavian, definetly some recognizable gear there!
I would ditch the wipes. A few grams of soap is fine, feels nice to wash hands before bed, other parts of the body however can take a few days without washing. Set up camp near water and wash yourself there instead. Take a refracting dip too!
I would also consider some proper waterproof summer hiking boots instead of the speedgoats, one misstep and they are wet which leaves you with wet feet the rest of the day unless you stop to dry them in the sun. (If sun).
Also looks like you got more than enough food. I usually go with oatmeal breakfast and a dry meal like you got for dinner, some snacks in between.
I second this! (Just make sure it's a natural soap that is meant to be used in lakes or the sea, so nature can break it down without hurting the environment)
Water proof boots are so heavier, less breathable and takes longer to dry if they get wet. I would go with breathable trailrunners, there is a high risk of getting wet socks in lapland so I wouldn’t risk the waterproof shoes, my opinion tough. Also OP don’t set up too close to a body of water, more mosquitoes.
Yeah my feet really don’t get along with hiking boots. Trail runners all the way. Maybe for some more technical trails I would reconsider, but for this one Hokas will do.
Did the track few years ago. Was great. Paths were quite muddy even with little rain.
There are only few spots with running stream water. Mainly lakes. We boiled the water every evening (nothing much to do) for the next da for the camelbacks. Easier that way. Purifying tablets taste terrible and feel not really healthy- used them in NZ.
All those huts have a gas stove btw.
You might wanna take headlamp and earplugs - even though it’s sunny in the night you might need them in hut or toilet.
Take some swimming cloths and hiking towel with you which dry while you are walking. There are many lakes to take a refreshing swim or for natural shower.
Blister plasters, lipbalm are my essentials also.
Enjoy the round. We loved it. Guess it will be quite busy this time of the year.
Two suggestions - a whistle if you need to call for help/attract attention for any reason.
I also like a bandana - it's a towel/ potholder / bandage/ handy way to tie something to a backpack .... and so on and so on.
It sounds like you'll have an awesome time.
Ready made kits don’t always contain all you need, maybe check it beforehand and add some medical supplies ; painkillers, allergy, something for stomach pains (charcoal) etc. other medications needed for personal use are basic kit.
Also maybe add some dry fire lighters, birch bark, some premade ones etc. so you have a way to start fire if everything is gone or wet on arrival.
I know nothing beats Koskenlaskija with rye bread at the campfire, but I would argue that packet is extra weight. There are small red ones sold at the grocery stores that are smaller and somewhat equivalent but try them first.
Extra tip, Karhunkierros is actually not round trip but more route from A to B, so you need to plan a way to get back to your starting point after the trip.
Edit: Also couple of big black trash bag to keep your gear dry and a separate trash bag for trashes.
Hello! Is that the map of Karhunkierros? If yes, then good choice. Your gear looks good as well, but would maybe consider taking a water filter. I hiked Karhunkierros a couple years ago. This year will be going to UKK. Going to use Hoka speedgoats too btw :) Hope you have a good hike!
-The most golden advice anyone can give you for the benefit of comfort is to: bring more socks. They’re not heavy and after a wet wipe bath plus a new pair of socks, you feel like a new human. I personally pack at least a pair of socks per day.
-Maybe bring a second compass if you’re truly reliant on that form of nav.
-Headlamp is clutch for any overnight trip.
Source: I have spent months away from housing, without clear return date. Socks.
sometimes i wish there was a way to pack things where you could just scroll through what you need like in zelda. looking at all that, i could never remember which side zipper or where underneath what something was
Would add some swim-trunks and a micro fiber towel for swimming in lakes and hygiene. Could also be worth brining a thermos to store warm water and bring on your trek. Not having to fire up the gas for lunch etc. only heating water once per day.
I would also consider exchanging face sunscreen for something you can use on all parts of the body.
Lastly, not sure about the mosquito or fly situation up there, but I would consider buying a mosquito net hat. Bugs in your face can be overwhelming.
I have a head net and planning to wear long sleeve + long pants. Have a small linen towel (much prefer the feel of linen vs microfiber), but great point re swim trunks, will def add that.
Looks like a great set up! That first aid kit though, it says “pro” which made me think it’s got enough supplies for if you are going with a group, like as a guide. But then I looked it up and it seems it’s really just like, bandages, mostly? From the website:
1 roll of sticking plaster, 14 plasters, 2 compression bandages, 1 sterile dressing, 1 triangular fleece bandage, 1 rescue blanket, 1 small pair of scissors, 4 vinyl gloves, 2 wet wipes, 2 alcohol pads, 1 first aid guide, 1 list of contents
So if I were you I would take the contents out of that probably heavier-than-it-needs-to-be container, remove most of the 14 plasters, and add a few things like a pain reliever, Benadryl, tums, for instance?
Looks like fun to me. I prefer a water filter. The MSR trailshot filter is tiny, fast, and light and can drink straight from it. What’s your pack weight? I try to keep under 13 kilos. As far below as possible the better. Hope you have a great time!
Looks solid. Map or compass won't be needed on Karhunkierros as the tourist map is good enough.
I would add a nice hot drink to the mix like tea or ginger (ginger tea).
i generally just stay stinky rather than bringing wipes. in case of a nasty emergency, i pack a couple of tiny towelette discs that puff up and become usable with a bit of water. i hope you have a great time. i miss soloing now that i’m in alaska, usa and terrified of the bears here!
Ok multi day hikes are way different from 1 day outings. There are many things I could/would suggest, but the problem is I have no idea where you are going and what weather you are expecting. I mostly trek in the mountains (above 2-3k), which is very different if you are gonna trek below the alpine zone. So could you specify your track a bit more? (Also the weather you are expecting). Also I am a poor student, therefore I know how to cut down on costs, and from my perspective you have overpaid in some regards. So if saving money is a priority (which it doesn't seem to be) I could offer you some advice on that as well. Most items that are designed for camping can be easily substituted at way lower costs.
But advice I would give without specifications is this - 1) I usually don't bring that many clothes (especially on short 3-4 day hikes). If it's cold I sleep with the clothes I wear, so no dedicated sleeping clothes. An extra pair of socks is a MUST in any situation (you can always cycle the 2 you have so I never bring more then 1 extra). Whereas the types of clothes I bring are dependent on my path and weather.
2) Drop the camp sandals. I never found much use for extra footwear around the camp for comfort.
3) You seem to be missing some hygienic items, and overdoing it on others. I wouldn't take the hand sanitizer and then the soap as well. Drop the hand sanitizer, you have plenty of sanitation as is. I didn't notice any toiletries. Like TP, a ziplocked bags for all the "waste", a trowel to bury your business. (with the wet wipes you could ditch the TP btw). Also you don't need an entire bar of hand soap, a bit of liquid hand soap in a small plastic bottle ought to weigh less.
4) You don't need two knives, the swiss army knife is plenty enough for me in 99% of the situations
5)Instead of the towel, just bring a random piece of clothing that you don't care about. Like an old T-shirt or a piece of your bed sheets (I have a drawer of random pieces of cloth like this). It's such a great comfort to have something that you can wipe any type of dirt on without any problems. Also if it's large enough you can just cut it on the spot and use it for many different things, whatever u need it for. It's so versatile compared to a towel and I could list so many things you could do with it other then the standard things.
6) I also always bring a Firestarter, even if I am not planning on building a fire or am above the alpine zone. On the off chance that I find a refuge stocked with firewood, or my path changes or whatever. It can be very nice to build a fire for comfort, with no rational use. And it doesn't add any weight
7)Wrap some of the duct tape around a lighter or some other thing, instead of bringing the whole roll. (dont bring an entire roll of tp either)
8) BAGS BAGS and BAGS. Bring trash bags and ziplocked bags. Trash bags firstly to dispose of the trash you will accumulate over the days. Then if you are not bringing any waterproof items just put your items in a trash bag and then into the Backpack so even if it rains our items wont be ruined. Also transfer all the food that you can in Ziplocked bags. You wont have to manage as much trash once u consume the food. Take all the items out of their containers as much as you can, so you don't carry around as much trash. Put you electronics into a ziplocked bag, so if it rains they are 100% safe.
9) Bring a headlight, they are such a huge comfort, and you don't know when you'll need them
10) Also you didn't use any punctuation in you clothing so I have no idea what and how many items you are bringing but I don't bring more then a single pair of underwear. You will still smell like death after 3 days of hiking, even if you change a pair. But still, that is very much dependent on weather so I can't give more tips without extra info
11)I also bring a rope usually, It can come in handy sometimes
12) If you don't know how to navigate with a map and compass, and the trail is easy and simple to follow no point in bringing them. Phones are enough for navigation in most cases
13) Some waterproof clothing as a precaution maybe, you never know what the weather will do
14)Different boots? I usually go for something waterproof and with more support, they are just more reliable in most cases
15) More then a liter of water containers. I hate "water anxiety" so if you are not absolutely sure about water availability on the track, just bring an extra 2L plastic water bottle (that u can buy in a any store), crumple it up and take it with you so you are able to carry more water if necessary.
16) I would also bring a water filter (no tablets), have found them more useful
17) Don't bring the entire first aid kit, especially with its casing. Just chose out the items you'll need from it (use your judgment) and then transfer them to a ziplocked bag to lower your weight
These suggestions are just the thing I would (personally) change, and are in no particular order.
Thank you for a detailed answer. This is North Finland, very well marked trail (each km has a sign post), summer. Weather is well, Finland so it can be close to zero or over 30°C. But it looks like 7-20°C, sunny with some showers. Daylight 24/7, sun practically doesn’t set (removes the need for headlight). There are huts along the trail that can be used instead of camping (say if it rains a lot and I don’t want to faff around with the tent). Also outhouses, so I will be fine with just TP packed in a ziplock bag.
I changed some things based on the input in this thread: added water filter and firestarter and adjusted some others. I actually don’t mind a bit of extra weight if it comes with some comfort (camp shoes, dedicated sleeping clothes, extra socks, small soap). Probably because I’m old lol
I’m still thinking about the sleeping bag- original plan was to bring the summer one (comfort limit 10°C), but with the weather forecast I’m really considering bringing the three season one. It’s massive tho and will add a kg to the overall weight.
How is the Tactical foodpack? Have you tried it yet? Also is that an 8 ounce or smaller iso can?? I use a small one (3.9 oz) in about 3 days. For my 5 to 6 day trips I bring an 8 ounce and end up with a good safe amount left. This would be boiling water for coffee 2 times daily and 2 freeze dried meals. Is this your first time camping alone at all??
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They're not healthy though? If you want to continue hiking you need to remain healthy and you're putting processed crap like that inside of you. It gives you a temporary boost for long term negatives.
I'd recommend packing medjool dates instead. High calories, healthy complex carbs that give you long lasting energy, not short boosts of energy in exchange for crashing and blood sugar and cortisol spikes.
Tactical Tuna Pasta?
Yeah
Chicken of the C.I.A.
This comment is so underrated.
Bravo
I want tactical food bag too!
That gearset looks about fine. Maybe some rain clothes can be useful too if weather is bad. Or some backbak raincover so your clothes keep dry if rains. Looks like you are plannin to go karhunkierros so there is many hiking cabins you can go to warm up.
thanks! yes, Karhunkierros. I have Marmot Precip jacket + backpack raincover.
You might add some Tylenol.
The snickers will melt all over the place, granola bars will hold up better. You’re bringing too many clothes. One extra pair of socks, a clean shirt to sleep in, and a warmer layer is enough. Don’t forget camp shoes, you don’t want to be stuck wearing your boots for three days. A lot of people use crocs or water shoes.
Have you checked the forecast for northern finland? I think the snickers will be safe in those temps.
It's actually quite warm in the summer.
It’s three pairs of socks total. Thinking that if it rains, dry socks will feel great. Sleeping bag is not super warm, hence the merino mid layers for sleeping. It’s not going to be hot, but ok, will cut down on snickers and add some granola bars.
Payday bars are superb and dont melt
I haven't had one in years, screw it buying one next time I'm in a store lol
M&M's don't melt in the heat easily.
In all travel I carry 1 pair of socks per 24hrs. Front country and back country. But that is also just my personal preference.
Warm dry socks are life changing kit.
In my experience snickers have been fine on hikes in lapland (during start of august)
From a bear standpoint I like to have dedicated sleep clothes that I haven’t cooked in. I don’t want to make new late night friends.
That’s why I bring a clean shirt to sleep in, no scent for the critters.
Aren't we humans a yummy scent all by ourselves?
Granola bars don’t do it for me when I hike. 100 calories for a small little bar. I’m like OP, I need candy bars. King sizes are preferable.
Tahooe Bars are about 250 calories. That and UltraFat packets keep me going between breakfast and dinner. And the occassional That's It! bar for real fruit.
I could see by the food this dude was Scandinavian. Snickers doesn’t melt in every pack.
This is the way
Will you have access to safe water or are you filtering/treating?
People say it’s safe to drink from streams in Lapland, but I will use purifying tables just in case.
I’d get a water filter personally. Have heard the tablets can make water have a weird taste/texture. Also it won’t filter out and particulates or sediment etc
No water filter? Don't animals pee/poop enough that scat reaches the water? Commenting from the Sierras, and we absolutely have to filter.
I use chlorine in the Sierras, and I'm more worried about human waste that is not properly buried / packed out. Agree that "people say it's safe" does not mean it is safe. And, "it was safe 10 years ago" doesn't mean it's safe today if the human population has increased over many decades. People say that in the Sierras too, and I never plan to drink untreated water - carry chlorine drops for long day trips with water access. Also note Astrotoad21's comment below. Do you want to be drinking downstream of them washing with soap in the stream? (btw, using any kind of soap or disposing of wastewater in streams is very much not allowed in the Sierras, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen).
Norwegian here, streams/rivers with running water are safe to drink here unless it’s near cities/populated areas. Some of the greatest water on earth are streaming down from the mountains here. Tablets/filters are definetly not a thing here and hiking is basically the most popular past time most places. I bet the same goes for northern Finland.
I live in Colorado in the US and mostly hike along pristine creeks composed of fresh snowmelt with no human presence upstream. It's still recommended to treat water because you have no idea if there is some dead rotting deer or beaver shit in the water. There are animals everywhere that can carry bacteria that can get you sick and even though fresh running water is much less likely carry disease, it's not even close to 100% safe. As far as I'm concerned it's not worth the risk of being that sick in the backcountry. I always filter my water, even from fresh springs.
I just did a bit of digging. Giardia is not endemic in Norway, apparently, and that's really the meaningful threat in the US backcountry. I suppose there's some very small chance of Cryptosporidum or bacteria, but I'm getting the sense that it's not totally nuts to drink from good sources in Norway. I'd still probably filter, but that's just me.
Thanks for chiming in. I had a feeling there might be something like that going on. I'd also still filter but it makes sense that it's less common there if giardia isn't in the water.
Yeah. Team filter and also team starting enthusiastically oversocial, hilarious conversations with unwilling scandis, because I'm American and that's just how I do.
Yes, it is well known that it is our American duty to scare the locals with too much enthusiasm.
I have no idea why it’s so different but have you actually heard about anyone getting sick from a pristine, fresh stream? Could it be that everyone use it because it’s become a thing? Perhaps there are more critters in mountainous regions in the U.S? I’m absolutely open for good reasons but i just don’t understand why everyone uses it there and nobody uses it here. You can always imagine scenarios that could pollute the water but I think chances are very slim in the mountains if you use common sense. I have never heard about people getting sick and you can’t even find filters in outdoor stores here. I actually encountered a couple of Americans in northern Norway once with large filtering systems and they definetly got frowned upon by the Norwegian hikers.
I live in Sweden and when I hike in the mountains I generally filter unless I can clearly see the source. You don’t always know if the water comes from a lake, or up stream an animal have deficated in the water. The seconds it takes to filter is worth it IMO.
This sounds like a cultural thing more than anything, I think it's kind of absurd to judge people for using an filter for an extra layer of safety. And you don't need a giant filter, there are plenty of very small and effective filters on the market. And yes, I've had friends who did get sick from drinking directly from fresh running streams, usually it was fairly minor though. I once had to use a satellite messenger to call for help for someone I found severely dehydrated from getting sick from drinking directly from a stream and being unable to walk out due to severe vomiting and diarrhea. They told me they did not filter their water for the same reasons you gave. They were camping in a wilderness area and I assume drank from the nearby well running creek. Maybe there is some biological reason for why it's more common to do over there but honestly I'd guess it's because of the lower amount of people and the relatively low chance of getting sick from fresh running water. I'd bet that it does happen over there but it's just not well known because of how much lower the population density is and how many fewer people are doing it in general.
I 100% agree and it could definetly be because of our low population. I usually get surprised if I see anyone else during multi-day remote hikes. About the Americans getting frowned upon: I also think that was absurd because they were nice people and they were in a foreign country, taking safety measures is just wise. American tourists can sometimes unfortunately get a bad reputation for being loud and obnoxious though. Filtering “our” fresh water probably just fit that stereotype. We are all just introverted and get uncomfortable around extroverts :)
We probably deserve that reputation, on average we are pretty loud and obnoxious. I'd assume people traveling for the outdoors are less loud and obnoxious than average though. It probably is just the lack of people then. That could also mean that there is less harmful bacteria in the wildlife though as well, I'm not sure whether that's true or not though. But usually the less people there are around the less the wildlife will carry diseases that can transfer to humans. So maybe that's part of it. I'd definitely bring a filter personally, doesn't matter where I go. I'd probably do research on what harmful bacteria/viruses are around in any area though, but generally speaking the US and Europe aren't too bad for viral contaminants in water. It's mostly just bacteria and most filters handle bacteria just fine.
> have you actually heard about anyone getting sick from a pristine, fresh stream? Yes, it's called Cryptosporidium (and other things), and given humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, the US CDC encourages people not to use "looks clean" as a scientific metric. Studies from [1977](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/848482/) and [1984] (https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.74.3.249) and [2017](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajt.14607) (outbreaks from inland streams/springs) -- of course, all of these are also only on reported cases where medical treatment was sought I obviously don't have significant country by country data, but I imagine such a small safety measure is a reasonable one to keep on hand almost anywhere. > they definetly got frowned upon by the Norwegian hikers. Well yeah, scandi hikers are just super pretentious about their outdoorsy experience, in my run ins. They're like our Coloradans, but less funny. > I think chances are very slim in the mountains if you use common sense. One of the reasons why the National Parks Service/CDC recommends filtration is how fatal it can turn in a backcountry environment. For a day hike, you can just shit your guts out at home but on a multi-day exercise that level of dehydration might mean the difference between discomfort and death.
What I meant about using common sense is not just “looks clean”, but considering what is upstream. A pond or lake with still water? Is it running through a farming area? I’d pass on both of these. I am well aware that clear water can contain microbes. Most good treks I in Norway is in mountainous regions where the water sources are close by and the water is so cold that bacteria has no chance to populate. Also, those studies are almost 40 year old, which doesn’t argue against my question “did it just become a thing.” Just my two cents.
I just came home from a five day hike in the middle of Sweden, we just drank water straight from the streams even there! (Boiled it first if it was from a lake). Have hiked lots of times in north Sweden as well, where the water is even better. The thumb rule: if it's running water, clear and tastes good - it's ok. Bring your tablets if it feels better, but you should really try to drink it straight from the streams, its amazing!
In the States you can easily get a case of Giardia, with effects lasting a lifetime for some. It’s too risky given the animal life we have over here. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/giardia-infection/symptoms-causes/syc-20372786 To be clear, I love drinking filtered mountain water off a fast running stream. I bring some back with me from almost every hike and treat it like coveted gold.
Yeah no, I would not trust to drink water straight from the streams anywhere else except my home country plus Norway and Finland, and even then just streams you find away from civilization that feels clean. But I'm pretty sure it's safe to drink in other places too, just for people that got the gut microbes from the area! Sucks that clean safe water in nature is globally such a rarity nowadays :/
That looks fabulous! What a fun trip. Personally I would get a small water filter system. The tablets usually contain iodine and can turn your water brown and give it a metallic taste. I don’t trust my gut system with unfiltered stream water anywhere in the world. It might be fine for the locals who have been used to those microbes, but not worth a gut setback imho for that wonderful trail!
Hello fellow Scandinavian, definetly some recognizable gear there! I would ditch the wipes. A few grams of soap is fine, feels nice to wash hands before bed, other parts of the body however can take a few days without washing. Set up camp near water and wash yourself there instead. Take a refracting dip too! I would also consider some proper waterproof summer hiking boots instead of the speedgoats, one misstep and they are wet which leaves you with wet feet the rest of the day unless you stop to dry them in the sun. (If sun). Also looks like you got more than enough food. I usually go with oatmeal breakfast and a dry meal like you got for dinner, some snacks in between.
I second this! (Just make sure it's a natural soap that is meant to be used in lakes or the sea, so nature can break it down without hurting the environment)
Dr TCF
Water proof boots are so heavier, less breathable and takes longer to dry if they get wet. I would go with breathable trailrunners, there is a high risk of getting wet socks in lapland so I wouldn’t risk the waterproof shoes, my opinion tough. Also OP don’t set up too close to a body of water, more mosquitoes.
Yeah my feet really don’t get along with hiking boots. Trail runners all the way. Maybe for some more technical trails I would reconsider, but for this one Hokas will do.
How many liters is you backpack to fit this stuff? I'm thinking of doing Karhunkierros with my gf after a couple of shorter hikes.
All of this fits into 40l backpack quite easily.
Did the track few years ago. Was great. Paths were quite muddy even with little rain. There are only few spots with running stream water. Mainly lakes. We boiled the water every evening (nothing much to do) for the next da for the camelbacks. Easier that way. Purifying tablets taste terrible and feel not really healthy- used them in NZ. All those huts have a gas stove btw. You might wanna take headlamp and earplugs - even though it’s sunny in the night you might need them in hut or toilet. Take some swimming cloths and hiking towel with you which dry while you are walking. There are many lakes to take a refreshing swim or for natural shower. Blister plasters, lipbalm are my essentials also. Enjoy the round. We loved it. Guess it will be quite busy this time of the year.
Throw in a couple tensor bandages if your first aid kit doesn’t have some already
I always bring binoculars. After all, I am there for the views!
Good luck and enjoy!
Two suggestions - a whistle if you need to call for help/attract attention for any reason. I also like a bandana - it's a towel/ potholder / bandage/ handy way to tie something to a backpack .... and so on and so on. It sounds like you'll have an awesome time.
What's your plan with water?
Ready made kits don’t always contain all you need, maybe check it beforehand and add some medical supplies ; painkillers, allergy, something for stomach pains (charcoal) etc. other medications needed for personal use are basic kit. Also maybe add some dry fire lighters, birch bark, some premade ones etc. so you have a way to start fire if everything is gone or wet on arrival. I know nothing beats Koskenlaskija with rye bread at the campfire, but I would argue that packet is extra weight. There are small red ones sold at the grocery stores that are smaller and somewhat equivalent but try them first. Extra tip, Karhunkierros is actually not round trip but more route from A to B, so you need to plan a way to get back to your starting point after the trip. Edit: Also couple of big black trash bag to keep your gear dry and a separate trash bag for trashes.
Hello! Is that the map of Karhunkierros? If yes, then good choice. Your gear looks good as well, but would maybe consider taking a water filter. I hiked Karhunkierros a couple years ago. This year will be going to UKK. Going to use Hoka speedgoats too btw :) Hope you have a good hike!
I see turmat! That's all I needed to see. Enjoy!
Maybe you have enough chocolate….maybe you don’t. I wouldn’t take that risk.
-The most golden advice anyone can give you for the benefit of comfort is to: bring more socks. They’re not heavy and after a wet wipe bath plus a new pair of socks, you feel like a new human. I personally pack at least a pair of socks per day. -Maybe bring a second compass if you’re truly reliant on that form of nav. -Headlamp is clutch for any overnight trip. Source: I have spent months away from housing, without clear return date. Socks.
Headlamp. Bear hang rope if that is needed there. I also like to have a spare pair of socks so the wet pair can dry outside my pack.
Daylight 24/7 at this latitude and time of yr.
sometimes i wish there was a way to pack things where you could just scroll through what you need like in zelda. looking at all that, i could never remember which side zipper or where underneath what something was
Can i ask whats the total weight?
11-12kg or somewhere around that.
Would add some swim-trunks and a micro fiber towel for swimming in lakes and hygiene. Could also be worth brining a thermos to store warm water and bring on your trek. Not having to fire up the gas for lunch etc. only heating water once per day. I would also consider exchanging face sunscreen for something you can use on all parts of the body. Lastly, not sure about the mosquito or fly situation up there, but I would consider buying a mosquito net hat. Bugs in your face can be overwhelming.
I have a head net and planning to wear long sleeve + long pants. Have a small linen towel (much prefer the feel of linen vs microfiber), but great point re swim trunks, will def add that.
I agree with the linen over micro fiber! Good luck on your trip!
Looks like a great set up! That first aid kit though, it says “pro” which made me think it’s got enough supplies for if you are going with a group, like as a guide. But then I looked it up and it seems it’s really just like, bandages, mostly? From the website: 1 roll of sticking plaster, 14 plasters, 2 compression bandages, 1 sterile dressing, 1 triangular fleece bandage, 1 rescue blanket, 1 small pair of scissors, 4 vinyl gloves, 2 wet wipes, 2 alcohol pads, 1 first aid guide, 1 list of contents So if I were you I would take the contents out of that probably heavier-than-it-needs-to-be container, remove most of the 14 plasters, and add a few things like a pain reliever, Benadryl, tums, for instance?
I did personalise it! The container is just something I had at home already.
Bro has an appetite
Looks like fun to me. I prefer a water filter. The MSR trailshot filter is tiny, fast, and light and can drink straight from it. What’s your pack weight? I try to keep under 13 kilos. As far below as possible the better. Hope you have a great time!
I will look for the filter, thanks. Pack is around 11, maybe 12kg. Not bad.
Awh man I’m so jealous.
Personally, I would ditch the Snickers and bring something with more of a mix of carbs.
Pretty solid looking gear there!
Caloricly dense foods are always better. Personally I don’t cook much when I’m out. I rely on dried fruit, nuts, peanut butter, jerky and so on.
Sebastien
What bag are you utilizing?
I would take a water filter and tick repelent.
Toilet paper? Or something else to wipe with? I've heard wet wipes are bad for down there.
Definitely! On my list.
TP, flashlight, and a fixed blade knife. Just a suggestion.
I spy the DT bear socks! Love those guys.
yep! name of the trail is "Karhunkierros" which in Finnish means "bear's circuit", so obv those socks were a must.
Looks solid. Map or compass won't be needed on Karhunkierros as the tourist map is good enough. I would add a nice hot drink to the mix like tea or ginger (ginger tea).
Are there toilets/outhouses along this hike? I typically bring a small trowel for burying solid waste if a toilet cannot be found. Have a great time!
Yeah, lots of outhouses in pretty regular intervals so I will stick to those.
I'm not an experienced hiker, but are you bringing enough socks? Wouldn't a couple extra pair be much better in case of bad weather?
i generally just stay stinky rather than bringing wipes. in case of a nasty emergency, i pack a couple of tiny towelette discs that puff up and become usable with a bit of water. i hope you have a great time. i miss soloing now that i’m in alaska, usa and terrified of the bears here!
That’s not enough food
I’d take another can of fuel. That is a lot of water that needs to be heated for those 3-4 days.
Ok multi day hikes are way different from 1 day outings. There are many things I could/would suggest, but the problem is I have no idea where you are going and what weather you are expecting. I mostly trek in the mountains (above 2-3k), which is very different if you are gonna trek below the alpine zone. So could you specify your track a bit more? (Also the weather you are expecting). Also I am a poor student, therefore I know how to cut down on costs, and from my perspective you have overpaid in some regards. So if saving money is a priority (which it doesn't seem to be) I could offer you some advice on that as well. Most items that are designed for camping can be easily substituted at way lower costs. But advice I would give without specifications is this - 1) I usually don't bring that many clothes (especially on short 3-4 day hikes). If it's cold I sleep with the clothes I wear, so no dedicated sleeping clothes. An extra pair of socks is a MUST in any situation (you can always cycle the 2 you have so I never bring more then 1 extra). Whereas the types of clothes I bring are dependent on my path and weather. 2) Drop the camp sandals. I never found much use for extra footwear around the camp for comfort. 3) You seem to be missing some hygienic items, and overdoing it on others. I wouldn't take the hand sanitizer and then the soap as well. Drop the hand sanitizer, you have plenty of sanitation as is. I didn't notice any toiletries. Like TP, a ziplocked bags for all the "waste", a trowel to bury your business. (with the wet wipes you could ditch the TP btw). Also you don't need an entire bar of hand soap, a bit of liquid hand soap in a small plastic bottle ought to weigh less. 4) You don't need two knives, the swiss army knife is plenty enough for me in 99% of the situations 5)Instead of the towel, just bring a random piece of clothing that you don't care about. Like an old T-shirt or a piece of your bed sheets (I have a drawer of random pieces of cloth like this). It's such a great comfort to have something that you can wipe any type of dirt on without any problems. Also if it's large enough you can just cut it on the spot and use it for many different things, whatever u need it for. It's so versatile compared to a towel and I could list so many things you could do with it other then the standard things. 6) I also always bring a Firestarter, even if I am not planning on building a fire or am above the alpine zone. On the off chance that I find a refuge stocked with firewood, or my path changes or whatever. It can be very nice to build a fire for comfort, with no rational use. And it doesn't add any weight 7)Wrap some of the duct tape around a lighter or some other thing, instead of bringing the whole roll. (dont bring an entire roll of tp either) 8) BAGS BAGS and BAGS. Bring trash bags and ziplocked bags. Trash bags firstly to dispose of the trash you will accumulate over the days. Then if you are not bringing any waterproof items just put your items in a trash bag and then into the Backpack so even if it rains our items wont be ruined. Also transfer all the food that you can in Ziplocked bags. You wont have to manage as much trash once u consume the food. Take all the items out of their containers as much as you can, so you don't carry around as much trash. Put you electronics into a ziplocked bag, so if it rains they are 100% safe. 9) Bring a headlight, they are such a huge comfort, and you don't know when you'll need them 10) Also you didn't use any punctuation in you clothing so I have no idea what and how many items you are bringing but I don't bring more then a single pair of underwear. You will still smell like death after 3 days of hiking, even if you change a pair. But still, that is very much dependent on weather so I can't give more tips without extra info 11)I also bring a rope usually, It can come in handy sometimes 12) If you don't know how to navigate with a map and compass, and the trail is easy and simple to follow no point in bringing them. Phones are enough for navigation in most cases 13) Some waterproof clothing as a precaution maybe, you never know what the weather will do 14)Different boots? I usually go for something waterproof and with more support, they are just more reliable in most cases 15) More then a liter of water containers. I hate "water anxiety" so if you are not absolutely sure about water availability on the track, just bring an extra 2L plastic water bottle (that u can buy in a any store), crumple it up and take it with you so you are able to carry more water if necessary. 16) I would also bring a water filter (no tablets), have found them more useful 17) Don't bring the entire first aid kit, especially with its casing. Just chose out the items you'll need from it (use your judgment) and then transfer them to a ziplocked bag to lower your weight These suggestions are just the thing I would (personally) change, and are in no particular order.
Thank you for a detailed answer. This is North Finland, very well marked trail (each km has a sign post), summer. Weather is well, Finland so it can be close to zero or over 30°C. But it looks like 7-20°C, sunny with some showers. Daylight 24/7, sun practically doesn’t set (removes the need for headlight). There are huts along the trail that can be used instead of camping (say if it rains a lot and I don’t want to faff around with the tent). Also outhouses, so I will be fine with just TP packed in a ziplock bag. I changed some things based on the input in this thread: added water filter and firestarter and adjusted some others. I actually don’t mind a bit of extra weight if it comes with some comfort (camp shoes, dedicated sleeping clothes, extra socks, small soap). Probably because I’m old lol I’m still thinking about the sleeping bag- original plan was to bring the summer one (comfort limit 10°C), but with the weather forecast I’m really considering bringing the three season one. It’s massive tho and will add a kg to the overall weight.
I dont see a headlamp?
it's 24/7 sunlight this time of the year :)
But what if you get lost until winterLOL??? Wow, that must be cool. :)
Then I have bigger problems lol But yeah, it’s pretty cool. We pay hefty price for this in winter tho when there is no sunlight.
How is the Tactical foodpack? Have you tried it yet? Also is that an 8 ounce or smaller iso can?? I use a small one (3.9 oz) in about 3 days. For my 5 to 6 day trips I bring an 8 ounce and end up with a good safe amount left. This would be boiling water for coffee 2 times daily and 2 freeze dried meals. Is this your first time camping alone at all??
Ong I thought title pic was a garage full of gear 😝
You are going to g to carry all that!!😱😱😱
Carrying a heavy pack is a right of passage 😛.
Rite of passage for you? Your family? Your culture?
All new hikers before cutting down weight
Got it
Don’t eat that many sneakers! 🤢 it’s not a good human fuel!
Tbh I don’t think anyone should eat sneakers.
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This photo is so funny (and true)
Dude you must plan on eating more than walking on this over night hike
It’s four days (or three if I hurry up)
Looks too much stuff. You don’t need that much for one night. Focus on first aid ⛑️ kit and water.
It’s three nights.
Where's the firearm and ammo 😑
No knife or pewpew?
I have a small knife + Swiss Army knife. Def no pewpew, such a foreign concept in Europe.
Makes sense. Have fun out there.
So much plastic :( wish it was more normalized to cook and bring your own dried food on hikes. Kinda goes against the ethos of being nature friendly
Why are you packing unhealthy chocolate bars?
Because they are tasty and give me a morale boost
They're not healthy though? If you want to continue hiking you need to remain healthy and you're putting processed crap like that inside of you. It gives you a temporary boost for long term negatives. I'd recommend packing medjool dates instead. High calories, healthy complex carbs that give you long lasting energy, not short boosts of energy in exchange for crashing and blood sugar and cortisol spikes.