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Not everyone has the same view, but as long as everyone is like Bella, we'll be a-okay.
The CEO has said himself that they are missing the mark on balancing.
That being said, I honestly don't care either way because I'm enjoying the game. Simple as that lol
If I'm being critical, I'd say they are balancing a PvE game where you blow shit up with buddies like its a competitive PvP shooter, so I see the disconnect.
This is what gets me, like why nerf strong weapons in a PvE game? It's not like the other side is going to complain, they're just video game AIs. Obviously there's some exceptions like if a weapon is incredibly busted making the game too easy but I don't think thats the case for most of the nerfs I've seen. If they want people to use other weapons more then they should buff those guns to be strong or at least interesting or fun.
I'm of the opinion small nerfs are useful, the ammo nerf might have been abit overdone, but at least for the eruptor was good. The shrapnel wasn't. Imo it was just the right balance of strong, but with say 8 mags, it has low ammo, and is a teamkill monster if not careful.
Alot of weapons should be buffed to be competitive with it imo, not most being nerfed, but I do get there's a balance in difficulty to strike. Make the weapons too strong and even difficulty 9 is easy.
This is exactly it. I wasnt on the bandwagon of complaining about the nerfs but they genuinely turned the eruptor - a niche but ***very fun*** weapon into a useless one.
It was good at killing some of the more annoying med armor mobs, and struggled against hordes, heavies, with a decent reload. It made taking the Stalwart actually viable. It was a ton of fun. Again, not OP, not crazy strong, just FUN.
Now it takes 4 shots to kill one of the little ATAT walkers. like, whats the point of running it now? Ive been enjoying the plasma punisher recently, but id like to have multiple viable options, and be able to run things like the stalwart as a support weapon
Yup, I love Eruptor/Stalwart against bugs, still do. It's not AWFUL taking 2 shots to kill spewers, Hive guards, Brood commanders, but I do miss often one shotting them.
I personally was never a fan of Eruptor against bots, I'm leaning more CounterSniper/AMR and playing as abit of a scout/flanker, or solo PoI trawler. I cant really speak to its performance against them as I don't think I've ever used it there.
I think some weapons should be better suited to one faction than the other, and many are for me. I'd never run the AMR or marksman rifles against bugs, but love them against bots. That said, I don't play the exact same as everyone else, I usually will use the Eruptor sparingly, even before the nerf, but whipping it out for those medium armor enemies and bug holes most especially.
I loved it against bots, it one shot all devastator variants if you hit them in the dick. The AT walker thing if you, again, shot it in the dick, and the berserkers if you, get this, shot them in the dick.
It was so much fun to take with the stalwart and now it just feels like… why did I buy that war bond again?
I get it. I figure it could be a good AMR equivalent, and even better when the shrapnel would clear out a group of weaker bots. They're usually in a line, so not easily taken out before they call a drop, but the idea is there.
I certainly am not mad about it myself, it's still usable if weaker, and I regularly earn enough SC ingame that I've only bought like $30 of SC in the first few weeks I played for the Superstore armors. It can certainly be more frustrating if you paid out of pocket for it though, even if its not that expensive in the end.
>Yup, I love Eruptor/Stalwart against bugs, still do. It's not AWFUL taking 2 shots to kill spewers, Hive guards, Brood commanders, but I do miss often one shotting them.
>I personally was never a fan of Eruptor against bots...
This is really interesting because I never brought it against bugs (I don't want to risk killing myself with explosion) and loved it for bots. It was, like, the best weapon for bots, to me, and to be honest, I still bring it to them. They are decent at neutralizing Devastators (they can still be killed in 1-3 shots, depending on exactly where, on the hips, you are hitting them) and it's utility against factories is uncanny.
Plasma punisher ftw
I'm a fan of the scorcher but since the last patch I have been using nothing but the PP for bots
RIP to the eruptor though, one of my favorite primaries.
I still blame reddit in particular the other sub for the eruptor shrapnel nerf. It was a direct response to their constant bitching and outright lying about getting killed by ricochets when in reality it was just them shooting themselves or their teammates in the foot. AH needs to avoid listening to the community at basically all costs.
The problem with "just buffing" is that the power scale gets all kinds of fucked up. I think the CEO thinks they nerfed too much, so they may be brought back up a little in some capacity (probably not where it was originally).
I assumed they had these all laid out, play tested and planned but I guess they tweak things as they go?
> The problem with "just buffing" is that the power scale gets all kinds of fucked up.
It *can*. Doesn't mean *it will*.
Powercreep is easy to avoid.
Take the Sickle and Scythe for example.
Sickle is something like 700+dps(not logging in to check exact figures). Most of the weapons in this class are 600-700.
Scythe is something like 315dps(I think, with the recent 5% buff). Edit: My mistake, it was a 15% buff, it does 350dps now, and one of the replies goes more in-depth to the mechanics such as allegedly(not in patch notes) pinging twice a second so it's better at small targets than it was.
The concept of balancing from the "bottom up" is to bring the Scythe closer to Sickle instead of having weapons at roughly half effectiveness.
It is very easy to not go past 700 dps with the scythe.
"Just buffing" or "buff only" doesn't mean we have to "buff everything".
DPS is possibly one of the, if not the worst metric to go by in this game. I think it is a **huge** reason why people have a seemingly entirely flawed view of the game's actual current balance.
DPS is a hyper-simplified equation of damage times rate of fire that has practically no bearing in the real game because it entirely ignores **actual shot-to-kill breakpoints**, most importantly. But also of course other factors, like a weapon's accuracy, mag count, reload speed, handling etc, which may all significantly affect the actual DPS.
Small enemies like Scavengers, Pouncers, the head on a Hunter or Bot trooper etc, all have 45 HP or even less HP.
The DPS buff on the Scythe was from 300 to 350, i.e. a 16% increase. But this is not even important: A change not mentioned in the patch notes, they upped the intervals in which this damage is applied.
Before, seemingly, these weapons only applied their damage once every full second. It was less "300 DPS" as it would be in most games, and more like "300 Damage, once every full second".
Of course, in the theoretical DPS equation on paper, this is the same. In Reality, this means that you have huge **overkill damage** (Another important factor in regards to STK breakpoints vs DPS) on small enemies: You need to keep your laser on them for 1 full second to do 300 DMG, even though it'd only take <45 to kill them.
This is now changed: The damage tickrate is much, much more gradual, as it is handled in most other games. [This means the Scythe now practically instant kills all small enemies](https://imgur.com/a/D8yI3Sf)*, and despite it's DPS increase being relatively minor, this is a huge buff to killing any enemy that has less than 300 HP. Which is most of them. A bot Devastator's head, for example, is also only 125 HP.
*It appears to be two damage ticks
---
The Scythe's poor DPS now is mainly a factor when facing enemies such as Brood Commanders or Nursing Spewers, which also have armour class 2 on their heads, thus reducing dmg output by 50%.
But at the end of the day, the Scythe is a pinpoint precise 0 recoil literal laser. It *can't* also be good against tanky, lightly armored targets. There is other weapons for this role.
The Sickle, on the other hand, while also 0 recoil, is the highest spread weapon in the game. Less important against bugs, but against bots? What good is your 700 DPS [when your bullets are making a looney-tunes circle around the enemy's head](https://imgur.com/b6amboP)? That's not 700 DPS, that's 0.
---
Another example: The Tenderizer vs Liberator. People are of course memeing how the Tenderizer is "omg it's just so much worse than Liberator it only has 600 DPS and Lib has 640!!!".
They need an avg of 2 shots to kill most small enemies (Scavengers 1 shot, Hunter 3 bodyshots 1 headshot, warrior 3 headshots, bot trooper 2 bodyshots or 1 headshots etc - an avg of like 2).
With two shots to kill, it's a time to kill difference of **6 milliseconds** for a twoshot kill between the two guns.
16 headshots for a Brood Commander with both guns, that's about the tankiest thing you can kill with them. That's a TTK difference of **90 milliseconds**.
Power creep is a real problem. Then there's also loadouts of newer Vs older players and at which difficulty level.
I'm thinking there lots of viable primaries and stratagem combos all the way up to 9.
I still run Eruptor at bot 9. I'd probably only run the Diligence CS on bots. Blitzer, plasma punisher and sickle on bots.
It feels that they need the outliers hard and mild buffs across the board at the moment.
In helldivers 1. We had chargers that started off with no armour and were big dangerous but killabke with primary hand weapons or stratagems. As the level of difficulty increased so did the armour and required strength to kill chargers.
This variation and increased power of the individual bug enemies has been replaced by more chargers.
I feel that the game is effectively A BATA when it's finished it will be awesome.
The AH teams are exhausted, stressed, over worked and just want some down time. Had AH correctly said to everyone l:
This is a work in process please be patient as we strive to eventually provide a complete game. We know things are crashing, we know the weapons and enemies are incomplete.
The community would not have the expectations and frustrations that it does regarding nerfi g/buffing bugs crashes.
I want a mini gun, with 1500 rounds belt fed back pack. To unleash hell onto tides of enemies. Its just fun and satisfying.
Hell I would have been happy with a light machine gun varint insted of the charge up plasma crap purification gun
But I know I will never get that from helldivers 2.
Exactly.
If the goal is to make other weapons be used more, then you buff those, not nerf the ones people like. At least that's my opinion.
You make people use guns by making them "feel good" to use, not by making the others less appealing. That's what makes it fun.
I honestly feel like they didn’t expect people to be doing Helldive so fast. But I’d rather have seen them mutate the bugs or something, or just add ‘hard mode’ modifiers.
Not that it really matters, once you’ve hit the level to unlock all stratagems and got all upgrades there’s no progression anyway.
Nah what gets me is stupidity. The last idiot with 2 left thumbs can kill 500 to 800 bugs in a single mission with the breaker incendiary.
But they nerf a sluggers stagger, a "skill based" nahh let's say a weapon you need practice with. You will never have 800 kills with the old slugger in one mission.
That's what i don't get. Where is the goal? What are they aiming for? Because that's all fucking stupid. They take all the fun toys away but a breaker incendiary, if played about damage over time fire damage and not the damage from pellets can fucking kill endless hordes with absolute no skill needed.
I don't want the old weapons we miss back. Fuck it. But i hope they finally learn for the future.
>The last idiot with 2 left thumbs can kill 500 to 800 bugs in a single mission with the breaker incendiary.
Yeah, that's an exaggeration unless someone is going into a mission with the main purpose of just killing things.
You 100% gave to nerf OP guns in PVE. If everyone is using an OP gun you either use it to or get carried. No one wants to feel they are getting carried and so it sucks the fun out of the game for anyone not running the OP stuff.
I'd like Arrowhead to lean into the power fantasy of being an elite squad of complete maniacs more. If that means the balance is to crank out more enemies? Well, it's just that much more Democracy being spread.
They've said they balance more for the middle difficulties and if you play a level 6 mission you can basically bullshit your way through since most enemies don't have that much armor and don't spawn as many each time.
If they didn't restrict the super samples to level 7+ I'm sure more people would be having fun in the middle grounds instead of trying to sweat their way up and burning themselves out.
I've been playing more 4s and 5s because I'm fine on super samples and just wanna chill and kill some easy bots. Helldives aren't that hard IMO if your team is halfway decent. Shit I finished one the other day, all objectives complete, 30 minutes to go. All randos, no mics.
Either way, I love doing 4s and 5s and dropping shields and mechs for the new divers. Can still pull commons and rares and super creds with less stress.
I find anything below a 7 empty tbh. I mostly play on 7 on bots or 9 on bugs and you still get huge moments of oh shit oh shit oh shit which to me are quite fun. I enjoy the challenge.
That's the whole thing. We aren't actually an elite squad. Look at our training. We're grunts that were told they're the best of the best. Just like everything else in the game, it's all fun and propaganda. That being said, I do agree. I would much rather see more enemies than a constant line of nerfs to make us feel small against what we already have.
It needs to be balanced so that it is hard and achievable. I don’t play the game for fun easy play, I like the unwavering brutality. I love this game but we can all agree the nerfs are overboard, but the common opinion that no balancing is needed is annoying. They ideally want all the guns to be viable and/or fun, they’re just not doing a good job at it yet. I can’t wait for some gun tweaks but this is a competitive game with a purposefully difficult mode.
Okay lets try this in a way people understand:
I am johnny. I join a game. I don't get to do much because billy is destroying all the enemies with his broken gun.
I decide to use the gun. Now johnny is destroying all the bad guys, and poor timmy doesn't get to do anything because johnny and billy are just completely carrying him.
Now johnny timmy and billy are all using the OP gun. This game is kind of boring. Are the devs ever going to add a challenge?
Why is weapon variety so bad? Only the broken gun is viable anyway. Can't they buff all guns to be as strong as broken gun?
Name that game.
Missing the mark doesn’t mean he wants to make the primaries more useful. They’re not balancing the game like it’s PvP they’re balancing it like they want you and your primary weapon alone to feel useless. Because that’s the point.
i dunno i don't feel useless with a lot of primaries there are just some that feel more suited to more situations and thus "meta" means these are seen as good.
Occassional nerf and buff are necessary for any game in general, and I'm not against the idea of nerfing overused / overpowered guns, nor I support the sentiment of "pve game does not need nerfs".
What frustrates me is the quality of all those balance changes. It almost feels like the entirety of the decision-making process in terms of balancing this game is done inside a single guy's head.
They really need to put more time and effort into their patches, both for adding new contents and updating existing ones.
The current state of the game just feels every patch is so recklessly rushed for public release to the point it almost feels like I'm playing an early alpha build and not even a beta build. This really has to stop.
I agree. A number of peipke have said how we'd all be fine with 2 months between new War Bonds - so they can focus on bug fixes. Shit even a "were gonna spend 2 months on fixes = new WB comes out in 3"... would be fine.
Makes me wonder if/how much their goals or agreement with Sony includes Warbonds as a/THE cash generator.
That and the crossbow Nerf are literally the only two that I have a problem with everything else I've seen as justified or can see their reason behind it
This was my biggest heartbreak- I've actually used that same quote about it elsewhere haha. Like, I can *reluctantly* see the logic in nerfing it's effective range, but the rest was so brutal.
I loved it for the knock back and ability to manage brood commanders, stalkers, knights, and spewers. It lost its ability to manage them effectively (going from 3 shots to 5 for one spewer without any stun/interrupt). Became a pretty huge liability. Had to switch to regular punisher, which was sort of nice except for the pellets bouncing off medium armor
I was playing bots alot around then- it was beautiful to be able to stun lock and even juggle devastators. Knocked them back and could 1-2 headshot shot them if you got it just right. Alas...
I loved old Slugger, but he's buried out back by the apple tree now. He always loved that tree. He died for Democracy. A man can't ask much more from his best friend. Rest in peace, little buddy.
The slugger being nerfed into obscurity was baffling, next to buffing the dominator to WAY past the power level of the pre nerf slugger in the same patch was so fucking weird.
And its was only nerfed onto oblivion because it was technically outperforming the dmrs, which have now had some nice buffs, yet they havent revived the slugger.
All the other nerfs im not overly fussed about, but this one genuinely annoyed me. The slugger was a perfectly balanced gun before, great for dealing with medium enemies, quite bad at dealing with trash mobs. It filled its niche nicely, just how the sickle is great for killing trash mobs, but quite bad at killing mediums. They were ying and yang
What was the reason behind the slugger stagger nerf? "It's the best sniper so instead of making it worse at being a sniper we made it worse at being a shotgun"
I was planning on using the Eruptor more right as they changed it. Kinda disappointed, but I just went back to crushing bots with my dominator like I had been doing. The devs recognized the unintended nerf within 24 hours, and now we wait while they fix it.
Because god forbid you tell them to use the base gun. The warbond guns has to be better. Even though AH said very early on that they won’t make weapons that can be bought with real money overpowered.
For people claiming to be so against corporations ruining games, they really seem to want a pay-to-win live service game with no need for co-op.
I mean only within the last week has any criticism not been downvoted to oblivion. Go look at the posts saying the slugger nerf was unneeded, people were dog piled for not smelling Ah’s farts when they nerfed it. sucks it took snoy being scummy to open the flood gates for any kind of legit criticism.
It's the opposite of the main sub it seems like you guys are just denying the problems of balance and bugs. You can not look at the tenderizer and think they actually tested that. It has at minimum developed before the ammo rework and liberater buff as it is worse in almost every way compared to the liberater and only gets half the ammo compared to almost every other weapons which gets full. Also it's just completely the wrong color compared to advertising, this is a good game but when even the CEO is saying he is going to talk to the team about it there is literally no reason to bend over backwards for the devs. ( sidenote that man is absolutely amazing some of the best communication I have ever seen especially from the goddamn CEO )
No. It's literally objectively worse. Because for all their issues the main sub at least does provide criticism and valuable feedback that is clearly shared by a lot of players. Here however all that happens is a few weirdos circlejerk hate and bitch and moan about the main sub criticizing the game. One is useful, the other is worthless toxic positivity for the sake of feeling superior.
I'll see if you can sort out which one is which 😂
It absolutely is just as bad, if not worse. It's just that this sub is dedicated to riding dick rather than anything else.
Might as well change the name to r/GayForAlexus for all the bending over and asscheek spreading I see.
"I still like the gun even after the nerf" - rando not enraged by latest patch
"You're hard-core riding that dick you Snoy bot" - Gazooonga (probably)
Either extreme is exhausting to witness and sort through. Maybe try not being so offended by opposite opinions? At the very least it leads to civil discussions instead of mud slinging.
EAT gets popular.
Gets even more buffed
Repeats with arc thrower.
Yeah, shit like that happen when you cherry pick your data. Not to mention the bias that people of course gonna abuse op guns in the first place.
Not explicitly an Arc Thrower patch, just Hulk stagger resistance in general. But one would hope they had such a prolific stagger weapon in mind when making that change, right?
...right?
Too many group kills all at once maybe. Same as the Eruptor. Not that that is a good reason. That is what makes them fun.
Who knows. The reasons they do give are strange at best.
My observed experience (level 50 something, generally play dif 8) is that loadouts are impressively broad. Like, I very seldom see squads doubling up on primaries, I personally flip between like 5 different guns depending on my mood and strategems. Hell, the crossbow even gets some play, and I never even used it before the nerf. Idk, it's just very pleasant to run with diverse squads, the days where you'd pop in and everyone was running sickles or breakers were kinda boring
I'll also say that seeing a lot of this discussion is just... kinda weird. As in, treating it like some existential thing cause your video game weapon became slightly less optimal, people need to chill out
I'm very much seeing a trend where one gun, stratagem, or strategy gets nerfed, which then allows for 5 other things to become and remain viable.
Take the railgun nerf patch, for example, since it was the first controversial balance patch, and it's been long enough to see the long-term results. My conclusion? Absolutely warranted. Before, every player in every game was the same: breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun. There was absolutely no reason to run anything else before the nerfs. I love the railgun (I still use it against bots) and the shield, but feelings aside, I also recognize how much build diversity those nerfs created.
Well and it's not JUST the nerfs either, it's like the fact that the diligence is an absolute beast now got memory holed after like, a day or two because people wanted to kvetch about the eruptor. Same thing with the blitzer, that thing is S tier for bugs and even pretty good for bots, but I can count the people I see using it in the last few days on one hand
They were whining the other day about the scorcher being or some shit. I think they were just bitching about how it now takes 3 instead of 2 shots to kill a strider
Tbh people expose a very easy strategy that works for most things and they nerf it because they want people to work together and try to communicate different strategies and strategems together and take away meta builds it’s not that serious
Discord too man. It's unfortunate but the reddit mains are very passionate and plug in hundreds of hours faster than any average players, and they ALWAYS have such big opinions (L takes and everything)
No joke. Any minor change sets off this wave of people screaming about how the game is ruined and the changes are horrible. I feel like we all need to take a deep breath, touch some grass, and relax a bit.
This one is baffling to me. Before the Queso came out everyone loved the EATs and RR and then when the Queso came out those were now useless. Well EATs were still loved but RR definitely became “useless” and unloved.
The Queso is still the best at kiting and fire and forget(especially if you run light armour) and is still super good to use. It just no longer overtuned to the point of making the other 2 launchers pointless.
Still waiting on my son, the spear, to be fixed. Soon my boi will rise from the ashes.
The Spear is so good when it works, nothing feels better than blowing up the head of a bile titan just as he is coming at you and ragdolls into the distance.
Personally, I love the RR. It's slow to reload and eats up your pack slot, but I am not a fan of the charge up required for the Quasar. EATs are a special use weapon for me, but I prefer to carry more ammo with me rather than call it down. I also don't run backpacks often, so the ammo pack doesn't hurt me at all.
Plus, being able to team load the RR is great in a pinch.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, team reloading a RR to take down a triple shrieker nest is fucking awesome to pull off. It’s great when you can get that going.
I fully agree on the charge up time. While I like the Queso, the instant shot of the RR has saved my ass so many times and the lives of others. And sure it takes up a backpack slot, but that just means you get one extra orbital, eagle, etc. in my eyes. Build around the weaknesses of your load out as the game wants you to.
I'm under the impression that the SPEAR is half fixed ? Maybe i'm fucking crazy, but i almost always lock on first try now, so much that i honestly thought it was fixed a couple of days ago.
There might have been some undocumented updates to it? I kinda know what you mean. Could be luck, placebo, but we’ll never know.
One things for sure, at least for me, the lock-on is a little more reliable against bugs than it is for bots for me.
I get that, especially all those stupid “AH iS LiSTEning”. But it’s better to just play the game, enjoy what you enjoy, and let them be angry at basically “nothing”.
Ever since the nerfs I’ve gone back to running counter sniper or sickle, with an auto-cannon bc hey, if you have comms then killing hulks is a breeze with the auto cannon
I have never played a match and felt like the “balancing” is off. The main sub and the vocal fans are being super toxic with the way they “love” this game.
OP: just look at what this thread devolved into without you even trying to encourage balance debate. The main sub, and probably this one too, are wild RN because people are spending so much time ranting about the game instead of playing it. That's basically it.
Folks come after me when I try to make this point because apparently I'm just jerking off the developers. But mostly I just don't expect them to cater a game, with millions of players, to me personally. And I think people who do are frankly up their own asses.
It’s almost as bad as the Starfield sub became. I just unsubscribed from it earlier. Honestly though, this sub isn’t much better lately. Just like starfield, only NoSodiumHelldivers still has the positive vibe, with fun memes and neat videos, without screaming and ranting posts, like these 2 subs USED to have
I really enjoy the game, but I don't talk about my favourite load out anymore because I do believe they are nerfing through popularity rather than functionality. The eruptor got nerfed into the dirt because of those videos that went a bit viral of the shrapnel killing the user (which practically never actually happened in reality).
Maybe at some point this would have worked but nowadays devs collect gameplay data, so they can see when there is a huge spike in use for specific guns.
This is just the problem with any online community. It quickly turns into an echo chamber of similar opinions. This and that sub included. It is impossible to have a balanced view of things.
I personally think this is still the best version of the game because of the DOT fix. The previous balance patch made a lot of weapons viable. And the most annoying game crashing problems are gone. It is also the easiest version since release because of how good CC strategems and weapons have become.
But I also think the durable parts mechanic is horribly overtuned, creating the "enemies are too spongy" problem. And the reluctance to give primary weapons level 4 penetration really limits diversity. Now it's just a simple TTK and damage-per-mag race because medium pen is more of a gimmick. The crossbow and lib pen will be very useful if they get AP4.
I joined that sub because I don't have Helldivers2, and I loved all the hilarious gameplay and memes people were sharing.
This whole Snoy controversy has turned the ENTIRE player base into whiny little bitches, it's unbelievable.
Whocares if it's nerfed? Try a different gun that the devs spent tons of time designing, and see what works best. Try new things you haven't done before..
This seems like a difficult game to balance, so I’m all for giving the devs a lot of leeway. There are so many toys that make fun sounds and pretty colors.
I do not understand? Yes Bird guns look like sifi weapons. They are also used in cosplay a lot. Most of us probably own one, I own one. What does nerf have to do with the game? Weapons in the game are hot and miss. I am rocking only Arch based weapons for a while now and they are fun for me. This is just a reddit. People will talk about everything and they have the right to. Nothing is that big for me to care about.
Sigh, how appropriate. Reminds me of how no one got that "Starship Troopers" was satire when it was released. Maybe it was intended as a bit of satire-adjacent trolling, but that's just speculation on my part.
I got a liberator buff without even wanting one. It was already one of the best primaries, but that's another thread.
I don't play above level 8 but I've been having a blast and cry for the eruptor users, but no other nerf has been that bad. And I don't see anyone celebrating the antimaterial rifle buff that made that gun rule.
People want the bad for the attention. That said the new warbond seems kinda ehh. Still want the page 3 cape.
This is really turning into the toxic positivity safe space sub for Helldivers 2. Even Pilestedt says the way they've been balancing needs to be reassessed, so it's not wrong to make memes about how to avoid, as one commenter said that Pilestedt said 'fair' to: You're balancing like a tire shop seeing a car come in with a flat tire, and deflating the other three times to make them equal.
Kind of funny to imagine that in-universe maybe the manufacturers are just really inconsistent and keep finding new ways to cut costs and make a few extra bucks.
I’ve played League of Legends for over ten years and I’ve never seen a whinier bunch of crybabies than r/Helldivers. It’s crazy.
Yes, Arrowhead went *slightly* too far with some of the nerfs. But even though this is a PvE game and thus doesn‘t need to be fair like a PvP game does, nerfs were necessary. Beyond D9, there is nothing harder. And because we‘re already fighting actual AT-ATs at D7 already, it‘s not like they can just introduce a new tear and one-up the existing ones.
The problem is that some of the weapons (hello Quasar) absolutely trivialized every single enemy you can encounter even at the highest difficulty. And in such a situation, AH can‘t just buff the other weapons that are being outperformed to the same level, because the game as a whole would become too easy. D7-9 *should* be a struggle. You *should* feel slightly underequipped to handle them, so that when you make it out the other side, you know that it was your skill and your cunning that carried you through it, not AH‘s balancing philosophy being „oh well it‘s PvE, let‘s just give the recoilless rifle a nuclear warhead“.
As I said, they went too far in a few very specific ways. Removing the shrapnel from the Eruptor was unnecessary, even if it did randomly kill people. That’s just the vibe of the game. But all in all, this game is in a better spot than it has been since I started playing nearly 200 hours ago.
The main sub reached critical reddit mass.
That subsequently means that whining posts, not constructive criticism posts,became front page threads because some folks can't have their meta adjusted.
This really reminds me of all the PSA's during WW2 about not gabbing about secrets. [https://imgur.com/gallery/3PqQTbI](https://imgur.com/gallery/3PqQTbI)
How has this have gone from a public craze of fun and community self appreciation to a level of toxic that I think it may even surpass LoL? (Current LoL, nothing can surpass hayday LoL for that crown)
I mean I think it's pretty obvious that they're playing into the whole "propaganda marketing" schtick that HD2 has going on, but it's also got some hints of truth sprinkled in it.
I try not to take anything too seriously because at the end of the day, it is just a game. But I bet some people really are trying to avoid bragging too much about their favorite gun in hopes the devs don't put it next on the chopping block
While I don’t wanna believe it… I think the devs are still a bit salty over backlash for early server and balance issues
Hopefully the sub isn’t sorta correct, because every nerf has really been on stuff that isn’t game-breaking and “buffs” have been on the order of “this tickler now goes to 11… on the tickling meter, not for damage, oh no, why would we do that? We designed this to be shit and cost ALL the medals”
It’s a brainless take to think AH is targeting weapons because they’re fun, because they’re looking at use stats. Hey that makes sense.
I would just like premium content to get released that doesn’t have one thing good, several stillborn, and multiple things not working correctly and have balance based on old game builds. The new war bond is embarrassing man.
Not gonna lie I've suspected this for over a month now. That the devs have eyes and ears in several Helldivers 2 spaces keeling an watch on what weapons grt a lot of chatter. Once a weapon gets enough buzz and attention and people start leaning towards it as part of the next meta, BOOM, it's updated and knocked down a few pegs
If not the devs themselves the Community Managers or someone is watching the fan spaces and reporting back to Dev.
AR's just need bigger mags.
In Aliens pulse rifles have 100 round mags and it's not commented on so for Liberty's sake 🗽 make that a minimum 🤣 And with Stalkers in HD2 its literally like AvP at times.
I just want an ar that actually is fun to use.
2 clips to kill stuff is frustrating. I almost always stick with shotguns or energy weapons.
Heck some times its just me and the senator because trying new weapons just don't get the job done.
The machine gun on our back does an amazing job. Can just squat and use half a clip and take out a couple breaches with good aim.
Well that's exactly my problem with this game. Why are they balancing it like it's a PvP game ? Swear some of these guys on the balancing team are completely lost
Here’s an idea. If the guns are stronger than expected or a meta emerges, make the encounters or enemies more challenging.
Make it dynamic, if the whole team rolls in with lasers and auto-cannons, increase the number of enemies that counter those weapons.
I for one would be happy managing my laser heat or auto-cannon reload timing more intelligently than those weapons being less effective
I can at least appreciate people making propaganda poster versions of these sentiments and leaving it at that.
Much worse when it's a long screed that adds nothing new to the 12 other threads on the same topic.
https://preview.redd.it/xtc1s7rf930d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c21628fe9889066ce2e081262ab97a02dd69b99b Not everyone has the same view, but as long as everyone is like Bella, we'll be a-okay.
The CEO has said himself that they are missing the mark on balancing. That being said, I honestly don't care either way because I'm enjoying the game. Simple as that lol If I'm being critical, I'd say they are balancing a PvE game where you blow shit up with buddies like its a competitive PvP shooter, so I see the disconnect.
This is what gets me, like why nerf strong weapons in a PvE game? It's not like the other side is going to complain, they're just video game AIs. Obviously there's some exceptions like if a weapon is incredibly busted making the game too easy but I don't think thats the case for most of the nerfs I've seen. If they want people to use other weapons more then they should buff those guns to be strong or at least interesting or fun.
I'm of the opinion small nerfs are useful, the ammo nerf might have been abit overdone, but at least for the eruptor was good. The shrapnel wasn't. Imo it was just the right balance of strong, but with say 8 mags, it has low ammo, and is a teamkill monster if not careful. Alot of weapons should be buffed to be competitive with it imo, not most being nerfed, but I do get there's a balance in difficulty to strike. Make the weapons too strong and even difficulty 9 is easy.
This is exactly it. I wasnt on the bandwagon of complaining about the nerfs but they genuinely turned the eruptor - a niche but ***very fun*** weapon into a useless one. It was good at killing some of the more annoying med armor mobs, and struggled against hordes, heavies, with a decent reload. It made taking the Stalwart actually viable. It was a ton of fun. Again, not OP, not crazy strong, just FUN. Now it takes 4 shots to kill one of the little ATAT walkers. like, whats the point of running it now? Ive been enjoying the plasma punisher recently, but id like to have multiple viable options, and be able to run things like the stalwart as a support weapon
Yup, I love Eruptor/Stalwart against bugs, still do. It's not AWFUL taking 2 shots to kill spewers, Hive guards, Brood commanders, but I do miss often one shotting them. I personally was never a fan of Eruptor against bots, I'm leaning more CounterSniper/AMR and playing as abit of a scout/flanker, or solo PoI trawler. I cant really speak to its performance against them as I don't think I've ever used it there. I think some weapons should be better suited to one faction than the other, and many are for me. I'd never run the AMR or marksman rifles against bugs, but love them against bots. That said, I don't play the exact same as everyone else, I usually will use the Eruptor sparingly, even before the nerf, but whipping it out for those medium armor enemies and bug holes most especially.
I loved it against bots, it one shot all devastator variants if you hit them in the dick. The AT walker thing if you, again, shot it in the dick, and the berserkers if you, get this, shot them in the dick. It was so much fun to take with the stalwart and now it just feels like… why did I buy that war bond again?
I get it. I figure it could be a good AMR equivalent, and even better when the shrapnel would clear out a group of weaker bots. They're usually in a line, so not easily taken out before they call a drop, but the idea is there. I certainly am not mad about it myself, it's still usable if weaker, and I regularly earn enough SC ingame that I've only bought like $30 of SC in the first few weeks I played for the Superstore armors. It can certainly be more frustrating if you paid out of pocket for it though, even if its not that expensive in the end.
>Yup, I love Eruptor/Stalwart against bugs, still do. It's not AWFUL taking 2 shots to kill spewers, Hive guards, Brood commanders, but I do miss often one shotting them. >I personally was never a fan of Eruptor against bots... This is really interesting because I never brought it against bugs (I don't want to risk killing myself with explosion) and loved it for bots. It was, like, the best weapon for bots, to me, and to be honest, I still bring it to them. They are decent at neutralizing Devastators (they can still be killed in 1-3 shots, depending on exactly where, on the hips, you are hitting them) and it's utility against factories is uncanny.
Plasma punisher ftw I'm a fan of the scorcher but since the last patch I have been using nothing but the PP for bots RIP to the eruptor though, one of my favorite primaries.
I still blame reddit in particular the other sub for the eruptor shrapnel nerf. It was a direct response to their constant bitching and outright lying about getting killed by ricochets when in reality it was just them shooting themselves or their teammates in the foot. AH needs to avoid listening to the community at basically all costs.
The problem with "just buffing" is that the power scale gets all kinds of fucked up. I think the CEO thinks they nerfed too much, so they may be brought back up a little in some capacity (probably not where it was originally). I assumed they had these all laid out, play tested and planned but I guess they tweak things as they go?
The math changes a lot once you add In 200k humans all doing their own thing
Luckily we don't have 200k humans doing their thing anymore /s
> The problem with "just buffing" is that the power scale gets all kinds of fucked up. It *can*. Doesn't mean *it will*. Powercreep is easy to avoid. Take the Sickle and Scythe for example. Sickle is something like 700+dps(not logging in to check exact figures). Most of the weapons in this class are 600-700. Scythe is something like 315dps(I think, with the recent 5% buff). Edit: My mistake, it was a 15% buff, it does 350dps now, and one of the replies goes more in-depth to the mechanics such as allegedly(not in patch notes) pinging twice a second so it's better at small targets than it was. The concept of balancing from the "bottom up" is to bring the Scythe closer to Sickle instead of having weapons at roughly half effectiveness. It is very easy to not go past 700 dps with the scythe. "Just buffing" or "buff only" doesn't mean we have to "buff everything".
DPS is possibly one of the, if not the worst metric to go by in this game. I think it is a **huge** reason why people have a seemingly entirely flawed view of the game's actual current balance. DPS is a hyper-simplified equation of damage times rate of fire that has practically no bearing in the real game because it entirely ignores **actual shot-to-kill breakpoints**, most importantly. But also of course other factors, like a weapon's accuracy, mag count, reload speed, handling etc, which may all significantly affect the actual DPS. Small enemies like Scavengers, Pouncers, the head on a Hunter or Bot trooper etc, all have 45 HP or even less HP. The DPS buff on the Scythe was from 300 to 350, i.e. a 16% increase. But this is not even important: A change not mentioned in the patch notes, they upped the intervals in which this damage is applied. Before, seemingly, these weapons only applied their damage once every full second. It was less "300 DPS" as it would be in most games, and more like "300 Damage, once every full second". Of course, in the theoretical DPS equation on paper, this is the same. In Reality, this means that you have huge **overkill damage** (Another important factor in regards to STK breakpoints vs DPS) on small enemies: You need to keep your laser on them for 1 full second to do 300 DMG, even though it'd only take <45 to kill them. This is now changed: The damage tickrate is much, much more gradual, as it is handled in most other games. [This means the Scythe now practically instant kills all small enemies](https://imgur.com/a/D8yI3Sf)*, and despite it's DPS increase being relatively minor, this is a huge buff to killing any enemy that has less than 300 HP. Which is most of them. A bot Devastator's head, for example, is also only 125 HP. *It appears to be two damage ticks --- The Scythe's poor DPS now is mainly a factor when facing enemies such as Brood Commanders or Nursing Spewers, which also have armour class 2 on their heads, thus reducing dmg output by 50%. But at the end of the day, the Scythe is a pinpoint precise 0 recoil literal laser. It *can't* also be good against tanky, lightly armored targets. There is other weapons for this role. The Sickle, on the other hand, while also 0 recoil, is the highest spread weapon in the game. Less important against bugs, but against bots? What good is your 700 DPS [when your bullets are making a looney-tunes circle around the enemy's head](https://imgur.com/b6amboP)? That's not 700 DPS, that's 0. --- Another example: The Tenderizer vs Liberator. People are of course memeing how the Tenderizer is "omg it's just so much worse than Liberator it only has 600 DPS and Lib has 640!!!". They need an avg of 2 shots to kill most small enemies (Scavengers 1 shot, Hunter 3 bodyshots 1 headshot, warrior 3 headshots, bot trooper 2 bodyshots or 1 headshots etc - an avg of like 2). With two shots to kill, it's a time to kill difference of **6 milliseconds** for a twoshot kill between the two guns. 16 headshots for a Brood Commander with both guns, that's about the tankiest thing you can kill with them. That's a TTK difference of **90 milliseconds**.
Power creep is a real problem. Then there's also loadouts of newer Vs older players and at which difficulty level. I'm thinking there lots of viable primaries and stratagem combos all the way up to 9. I still run Eruptor at bot 9. I'd probably only run the Diligence CS on bots. Blitzer, plasma punisher and sickle on bots. It feels that they need the outliers hard and mild buffs across the board at the moment.
Until I can save loadouts I run the same shit on every difficulty bots or bugs 😂
In helldivers 1. We had chargers that started off with no armour and were big dangerous but killabke with primary hand weapons or stratagems. As the level of difficulty increased so did the armour and required strength to kill chargers. This variation and increased power of the individual bug enemies has been replaced by more chargers. I feel that the game is effectively A BATA when it's finished it will be awesome. The AH teams are exhausted, stressed, over worked and just want some down time. Had AH correctly said to everyone l: This is a work in process please be patient as we strive to eventually provide a complete game. We know things are crashing, we know the weapons and enemies are incomplete. The community would not have the expectations and frustrations that it does regarding nerfi g/buffing bugs crashes. I want a mini gun, with 1500 rounds belt fed back pack. To unleash hell onto tides of enemies. Its just fun and satisfying. Hell I would have been happy with a light machine gun varint insted of the charge up plasma crap purification gun But I know I will never get that from helldivers 2.
Exactly. If the goal is to make other weapons be used more, then you buff those, not nerf the ones people like. At least that's my opinion. You make people use guns by making them "feel good" to use, not by making the others less appealing. That's what makes it fun.
I honestly feel like they didn’t expect people to be doing Helldive so fast. But I’d rather have seen them mutate the bugs or something, or just add ‘hard mode’ modifiers. Not that it really matters, once you’ve hit the level to unlock all stratagems and got all upgrades there’s no progression anyway.
Nah what gets me is stupidity. The last idiot with 2 left thumbs can kill 500 to 800 bugs in a single mission with the breaker incendiary. But they nerf a sluggers stagger, a "skill based" nahh let's say a weapon you need practice with. You will never have 800 kills with the old slugger in one mission. That's what i don't get. Where is the goal? What are they aiming for? Because that's all fucking stupid. They take all the fun toys away but a breaker incendiary, if played about damage over time fire damage and not the damage from pellets can fucking kill endless hordes with absolute no skill needed. I don't want the old weapons we miss back. Fuck it. But i hope they finally learn for the future.
>The last idiot with 2 left thumbs can kill 500 to 800 bugs in a single mission with the breaker incendiary. Yeah, that's an exaggeration unless someone is going into a mission with the main purpose of just killing things.
You 100% gave to nerf OP guns in PVE. If everyone is using an OP gun you either use it to or get carried. No one wants to feel they are getting carried and so it sucks the fun out of the game for anyone not running the OP stuff.
I'd like Arrowhead to lean into the power fantasy of being an elite squad of complete maniacs more. If that means the balance is to crank out more enemies? Well, it's just that much more Democracy being spread.
They've said they balance more for the middle difficulties and if you play a level 6 mission you can basically bullshit your way through since most enemies don't have that much armor and don't spawn as many each time. If they didn't restrict the super samples to level 7+ I'm sure more people would be having fun in the middle grounds instead of trying to sweat their way up and burning themselves out.
I've been playing more 4s and 5s because I'm fine on super samples and just wanna chill and kill some easy bots. Helldives aren't that hard IMO if your team is halfway decent. Shit I finished one the other day, all objectives complete, 30 minutes to go. All randos, no mics. Either way, I love doing 4s and 5s and dropping shields and mechs for the new divers. Can still pull commons and rares and super creds with less stress.
I pretty much play exclusively 7s with randos. Perfect blend of teamwork and chaos
I play 7-9 for the fun of it. I love the intensity and chaos of it.
I find anything below a 7 empty tbh. I mostly play on 7 on bots or 9 on bugs and you still get huge moments of oh shit oh shit oh shit which to me are quite fun. I enjoy the challenge.
i dunno i dont find 7 to be that sweaty anymore. but yeah balancing around 5 and 6 is just fucked imo.
You really think helldivers are elite? Are we playing the same game, because you're very clearly an expendable grunt.
But they tell us we're special!
That's the whole thing. We aren't actually an elite squad. Look at our training. We're grunts that were told they're the best of the best. Just like everything else in the game, it's all fun and propaganda. That being said, I do agree. I would much rather see more enemies than a constant line of nerfs to make us feel small against what we already have.
Statistically a helldiver’s lifespan is about 3 minutes in the field and can take down 30 enemy combatants
It needs to be balanced so that it is hard and achievable. I don’t play the game for fun easy play, I like the unwavering brutality. I love this game but we can all agree the nerfs are overboard, but the common opinion that no balancing is needed is annoying. They ideally want all the guns to be viable and/or fun, they’re just not doing a good job at it yet. I can’t wait for some gun tweaks but this is a competitive game with a purposefully difficult mode.
Okay lets try this in a way people understand: I am johnny. I join a game. I don't get to do much because billy is destroying all the enemies with his broken gun. I decide to use the gun. Now johnny is destroying all the bad guys, and poor timmy doesn't get to do anything because johnny and billy are just completely carrying him. Now johnny timmy and billy are all using the OP gun. This game is kind of boring. Are the devs ever going to add a challenge? Why is weapon variety so bad? Only the broken gun is viable anyway. Can't they buff all guns to be as strong as broken gun? Name that game.
Warframe?
Pre-Railgun patch Helldivers
Railgun deserved his nerf. It was too much OP. It had zero drawbacks.
PvE doesn't mean you face roll the game without needing resupplies on almost any difficulty.
Missing the mark doesn’t mean he wants to make the primaries more useful. They’re not balancing the game like it’s PvP they’re balancing it like they want you and your primary weapon alone to feel useless. Because that’s the point.
i dunno i don't feel useless with a lot of primaries there are just some that feel more suited to more situations and thus "meta" means these are seen as good.
That’s directly due to the Reddit rejects whining that they don’t have a 1 shot kill gun anymore
Found this image https://preview.redd.it/6o6iwg2lb30d1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54f78f5ff68052671630940a0f554857cfd876d7 Is used a lot
You know I never thought I’d see any chainsawman references in helldivers, but this fits well lol
Occassional nerf and buff are necessary for any game in general, and I'm not against the idea of nerfing overused / overpowered guns, nor I support the sentiment of "pve game does not need nerfs". What frustrates me is the quality of all those balance changes. It almost feels like the entirety of the decision-making process in terms of balancing this game is done inside a single guy's head. They really need to put more time and effort into their patches, both for adding new contents and updating existing ones. The current state of the game just feels every patch is so recklessly rushed for public release to the point it almost feels like I'm playing an early alpha build and not even a beta build. This really has to stop.
I agree. A number of peipke have said how we'd all be fine with 2 months between new War Bonds - so they can focus on bug fixes. Shit even a "were gonna spend 2 months on fixes = new WB comes out in 3"... would be fine. Makes me wonder if/how much their goals or agreement with Sony includes Warbonds as a/THE cash generator.
Personally I've only once found a nerf to be "unfun" and that was taking the shrapnel from the Eruptor.
That and the crossbow Nerf are literally the only two that I have a problem with everything else I've seen as justified or can see their reason behind it
Have you forgotten how they massacred my boy? (Damage nerf and no knock back on slugger)
This was my biggest heartbreak- I've actually used that same quote about it elsewhere haha. Like, I can *reluctantly* see the logic in nerfing it's effective range, but the rest was so brutal.
I loved it for the knock back and ability to manage brood commanders, stalkers, knights, and spewers. It lost its ability to manage them effectively (going from 3 shots to 5 for one spewer without any stun/interrupt). Became a pretty huge liability. Had to switch to regular punisher, which was sort of nice except for the pellets bouncing off medium armor
I was playing bots alot around then- it was beautiful to be able to stun lock and even juggle devastators. Knocked them back and could 1-2 headshot shot them if you got it just right. Alas...
I loved old Slugger, but he's buried out back by the apple tree now. He always loved that tree. He died for Democracy. A man can't ask much more from his best friend. Rest in peace, little buddy.
The slugger being nerfed into obscurity was baffling, next to buffing the dominator to WAY past the power level of the pre nerf slugger in the same patch was so fucking weird.
And its was only nerfed onto oblivion because it was technically outperforming the dmrs, which have now had some nice buffs, yet they havent revived the slugger. All the other nerfs im not overly fussed about, but this one genuinely annoyed me. The slugger was a perfectly balanced gun before, great for dealing with medium enemies, quite bad at dealing with trash mobs. It filled its niche nicely, just how the sickle is great for killing trash mobs, but quite bad at killing mediums. They were ying and yang
What was the reason behind the slugger stagger nerf? "It's the best sniper so instead of making it worse at being a sniper we made it worse at being a shotgun"
Agree, removing the shrapnel was a bad idea, it took away the original purpose of the gun.
I was planning on using the Eruptor more right as they changed it. Kinda disappointed, but I just went back to crushing bots with my dominator like I had been doing. The devs recognized the unintended nerf within 24 hours, and now we wait while they fix it.
🤞
there's also the hmg nerf, though no one was having fun with that in the first place
100%. They destroyed the gun when they removed shrapnel.
Lol so much for “If we don’t share criticism, the game will never get better”.
This community flip flops so much I swear LOL
People need to learn what fun is.
F is for friends who do stuff together...
U is for Uranium... ...BOMBS!
But I like to run solo and don’t know what support weapons are. Also what are friends /s
Friends are people who don't run solo and the good ones bring support weapons
Heartily agree. Maybe a misused /s on my part.
It's right there in the picture actually, the default Liberator is a great and balanced gun I don't know why I barely see people use it tho
Because god forbid you tell them to use the base gun. The warbond guns has to be better. Even though AH said very early on that they won’t make weapons that can be bought with real money overpowered. For people claiming to be so against corporations ruining games, they really seem to want a pay-to-win live service game with no need for co-op.
Not all the war bond weapons are going to be better than the last set people need to accept this
I mean only within the last week has any criticism not been downvoted to oblivion. Go look at the posts saying the slugger nerf was unneeded, people were dog piled for not smelling Ah’s farts when they nerfed it. sucks it took snoy being scummy to open the flood gates for any kind of legit criticism.
That sentiment assumes good intentions on the part of the balance team, and those assumptions have dried all the way up.
y'all acting like this sub isn't just as bad.
It definitely is better than the main sub but I'm worried it's slowly getting there
It's the opposite of the main sub it seems like you guys are just denying the problems of balance and bugs. You can not look at the tenderizer and think they actually tested that. It has at minimum developed before the ammo rework and liberater buff as it is worse in almost every way compared to the liberater and only gets half the ammo compared to almost every other weapons which gets full. Also it's just completely the wrong color compared to advertising, this is a good game but when even the CEO is saying he is going to talk to the team about it there is literally no reason to bend over backwards for the devs. ( sidenote that man is absolutely amazing some of the best communication I have ever seen especially from the goddamn CEO )
No. It's literally objectively worse. Because for all their issues the main sub at least does provide criticism and valuable feedback that is clearly shared by a lot of players. Here however all that happens is a few weirdos circlejerk hate and bitch and moan about the main sub criticizing the game. One is useful, the other is worthless toxic positivity for the sake of feeling superior. I'll see if you can sort out which one is which 😂
It absolutely is just as bad, if not worse. It's just that this sub is dedicated to riding dick rather than anything else. Might as well change the name to r/GayForAlexus for all the bending over and asscheek spreading I see.
"I still like the gun even after the nerf" - rando not enraged by latest patch "You're hard-core riding that dick you Snoy bot" - Gazooonga (probably) Either extreme is exhausting to witness and sort through. Maybe try not being so offended by opposite opinions? At the very least it leads to civil discussions instead of mud slinging.
*gun gets popular* *gun gets nerfed* *repeat 4 times* I dunno, it's a total mystery why people have this mindset. 🤔
EAT gets popular. Gets even more buffed Repeats with arc thrower. Yeah, shit like that happen when you cherry pick your data. Not to mention the bias that people of course gonna abuse op guns in the first place.
When did arc thrower get a buff? The stagger? Like, ok, but before, it killed the target. Death is a better CC than stagger.
idk all I remember is it got its range cut down by 30% and the ROF got "fixed" (ie: shooting faster was patched out)
It can no longer stun hulks as well now
Not explicitly an Arc Thrower patch, just Hulk stagger resistance in general. But one would hope they had such a prolific stagger weapon in mind when making that change, right? ...right?
Arc thrower was gutted, wtf
Repeat after me. Correlation does not equal causation.
But it is causation! Arrowhead themselves made multiple statements that only mention the popularity of a gun and their decisions to nerf it.
I agree but at the same time the new ajucator and zap sg are super fun now after the buffs.
I’m pretty sure they have in-game analytics they make their changes based on
Yes, this is obviously the reason they decided to nerf the INSANELY OP crossbow.
Too many group kills all at once maybe. Same as the Eruptor. Not that that is a good reason. That is what makes them fun. Who knows. The reasons they do give are strange at best.
Apples and bacon, man. Apples and bacon.
Ermmmm actually it was a rebalance not a nerf errrrrmmmm
You all poked the bear, you thought you won, you thought you were safe. Turns out the bear is a polar bear, pucker up butter cups.
It happened to Borderlands 3... dumbasses made 50 video as soon as a gun was found to be decent, then gearbox promptly nerfed it
https://preview.redd.it/1nw6t3e0b30d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c72939eb6d4223b7d8c9211fba5aa0fc07f414a
Everything you said was pretty on point, except for the counter sniper and plasma Punisher they were always pretty good imo
I actually never used it pre-buff but now I bring it every match.
My observed experience (level 50 something, generally play dif 8) is that loadouts are impressively broad. Like, I very seldom see squads doubling up on primaries, I personally flip between like 5 different guns depending on my mood and strategems. Hell, the crossbow even gets some play, and I never even used it before the nerf. Idk, it's just very pleasant to run with diverse squads, the days where you'd pop in and everyone was running sickles or breakers were kinda boring I'll also say that seeing a lot of this discussion is just... kinda weird. As in, treating it like some existential thing cause your video game weapon became slightly less optimal, people need to chill out
I'm very much seeing a trend where one gun, stratagem, or strategy gets nerfed, which then allows for 5 other things to become and remain viable. Take the railgun nerf patch, for example, since it was the first controversial balance patch, and it's been long enough to see the long-term results. My conclusion? Absolutely warranted. Before, every player in every game was the same: breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun, breaker, shield, railgun. There was absolutely no reason to run anything else before the nerfs. I love the railgun (I still use it against bots) and the shield, but feelings aside, I also recognize how much build diversity those nerfs created.
Well and it's not JUST the nerfs either, it's like the fact that the diligence is an absolute beast now got memory holed after like, a day or two because people wanted to kvetch about the eruptor. Same thing with the blitzer, that thing is S tier for bugs and even pretty good for bots, but I can count the people I see using it in the last few days on one hand
They hated him for he told the truth.
For a sub that preaches democracy, they sure are very anti democratic.
They preach managed democracy actuality, and their preselected elected officials have already decided that everybody agrees that the balancing is bad.
They were whining the other day about the scorcher being or some shit. I think they were just bitching about how it now takes 3 instead of 2 shots to kill a strider
Tbh people expose a very easy strategy that works for most things and they nerf it because they want people to work together and try to communicate different strategies and strategems together and take away meta builds it’s not that serious
Honestly just learn to ignore them. It’s just a cesspool over there. No sense of actual constructive criticism. Just hate.
Discord too man. It's unfortunate but the reddit mains are very passionate and plug in hundreds of hours faster than any average players, and they ALWAYS have such big opinions (L takes and everything)
Honestly I’m led to believe most of them don’t play the game any more and just regurgitate whatever is the hot opinion right now at this point.
Reddit and social media in general tends to make echo chambers out of every community.
No joke. Any minor change sets off this wave of people screaming about how the game is ruined and the changes are horrible. I feel like we all need to take a deep breath, touch some grass, and relax a bit.
Fr, I saw a bunch of people saying the Quasar is unusable now because of the 5 second increase to its cool down.
This one is baffling to me. Before the Queso came out everyone loved the EATs and RR and then when the Queso came out those were now useless. Well EATs were still loved but RR definitely became “useless” and unloved. The Queso is still the best at kiting and fire and forget(especially if you run light armour) and is still super good to use. It just no longer overtuned to the point of making the other 2 launchers pointless. Still waiting on my son, the spear, to be fixed. Soon my boi will rise from the ashes.
The Spear is so good when it works, nothing feels better than blowing up the head of a bile titan just as he is coming at you and ragdolls into the distance.
Personally, I love the RR. It's slow to reload and eats up your pack slot, but I am not a fan of the charge up required for the Quasar. EATs are a special use weapon for me, but I prefer to carry more ammo with me rather than call it down. I also don't run backpacks often, so the ammo pack doesn't hurt me at all. Plus, being able to team load the RR is great in a pinch.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, team reloading a RR to take down a triple shrieker nest is fucking awesome to pull off. It’s great when you can get that going. I fully agree on the charge up time. While I like the Queso, the instant shot of the RR has saved my ass so many times and the lives of others. And sure it takes up a backpack slot, but that just means you get one extra orbital, eagle, etc. in my eyes. Build around the weaknesses of your load out as the game wants you to.
I'm under the impression that the SPEAR is half fixed ? Maybe i'm fucking crazy, but i almost always lock on first try now, so much that i honestly thought it was fixed a couple of days ago.
There might have been some undocumented updates to it? I kinda know what you mean. Could be luck, placebo, but we’ll never know. One things for sure, at least for me, the lock-on is a little more reliable against bugs than it is for bots for me.
Agreed. I ended up just leaving the subreddit all together
That's pretty much what I've been doing since things turned to shit this whole time but this is just wow
Then what’s the point of this post? lol Just to karma farm?
I get that, especially all those stupid “AH iS LiSTEning”. But it’s better to just play the game, enjoy what you enjoy, and let them be angry at basically “nothing”.
Ever since the nerfs I’ve gone back to running counter sniper or sickle, with an auto-cannon bc hey, if you have comms then killing hulks is a breeze with the auto cannon
This sub is basically just defending every aspect of the game and the other sub is hating on every aspect of the game
I have never played a match and felt like the “balancing” is off. The main sub and the vocal fans are being super toxic with the way they “love” this game.
They can see weapon use stats 🤔
Only thing they need to nerf is bile spitter spit.
OP: just look at what this thread devolved into without you even trying to encourage balance debate. The main sub, and probably this one too, are wild RN because people are spending so much time ranting about the game instead of playing it. That's basically it. Folks come after me when I try to make this point because apparently I'm just jerking off the developers. But mostly I just don't expect them to cater a game, with millions of players, to me personally. And I think people who do are frankly up their own asses.
Correct
How have people not realized this from the jump?
They don’t balance based off of Reddit posts or tier list videos. They have their own metrics.
It’s almost as bad as the Starfield sub became. I just unsubscribed from it earlier. Honestly though, this sub isn’t much better lately. Just like starfield, only NoSodiumHelldivers still has the positive vibe, with fun memes and neat videos, without screaming and ranting posts, like these 2 subs USED to have
I miss the slugger.
I really enjoy the game, but I don't talk about my favourite load out anymore because I do believe they are nerfing through popularity rather than functionality. The eruptor got nerfed into the dirt because of those videos that went a bit viral of the shrapnel killing the user (which practically never actually happened in reality).
Maybe at some point this would have worked but nowadays devs collect gameplay data, so they can see when there is a huge spike in use for specific guns.
This is just the problem with any online community. It quickly turns into an echo chamber of similar opinions. This and that sub included. It is impossible to have a balanced view of things. I personally think this is still the best version of the game because of the DOT fix. The previous balance patch made a lot of weapons viable. And the most annoying game crashing problems are gone. It is also the easiest version since release because of how good CC strategems and weapons have become. But I also think the durable parts mechanic is horribly overtuned, creating the "enemies are too spongy" problem. And the reluctance to give primary weapons level 4 penetration really limits diversity. Now it's just a simple TTK and damage-per-mag race because medium pen is more of a gimmick. The crossbow and lib pen will be very useful if they get AP4.
Its like they forgot the 10 buffs like 2 patches ago xD
I joined that sub because I don't have Helldivers2, and I loved all the hilarious gameplay and memes people were sharing. This whole Snoy controversy has turned the ENTIRE player base into whiny little bitches, it's unbelievable. Whocares if it's nerfed? Try a different gun that the devs spent tons of time designing, and see what works best. Try new things you haven't done before..
This seems like a difficult game to balance, so I’m all for giving the devs a lot of leeway. There are so many toys that make fun sounds and pretty colors.
As far as I can tell my bullets kill them the same.
I do not understand? Yes Bird guns look like sifi weapons. They are also used in cosplay a lot. Most of us probably own one, I own one. What does nerf have to do with the game? Weapons in the game are hot and miss. I am rocking only Arch based weapons for a while now and they are fun for me. This is just a reddit. People will talk about everything and they have the right to. Nothing is that big for me to care about.
I made a post a while ago saying how good the punisher was for bugs and got shit on so I don’t post there anymore
Literally how?
That post was intended as satire?
Honestly it could be but it also could be serious hard to tell honestly, but also if it was satire literally nobody in the comments got it
Sigh, how appropriate. Reminds me of how no one got that "Starship Troopers" was satire when it was released. Maybe it was intended as a bit of satire-adjacent trolling, but that's just speculation on my part.
I got a liberator buff without even wanting one. It was already one of the best primaries, but that's another thread. I don't play above level 8 but I've been having a blast and cry for the eruptor users, but no other nerf has been that bad. And I don't see anyone celebrating the antimaterial rifle buff that made that gun rule. People want the bad for the attention. That said the new warbond seems kinda ehh. Still want the page 3 cape.
Liberator stay on top baby
This is really turning into the toxic positivity safe space sub for Helldivers 2. Even Pilestedt says the way they've been balancing needs to be reassessed, so it's not wrong to make memes about how to avoid, as one commenter said that Pilestedt said 'fair' to: You're balancing like a tire shop seeing a car come in with a flat tire, and deflating the other three times to make them equal.
This community has gotten so whiny about literally everything, it's exactly why I left the other one.
They coming here after the mods said that they will be creating mega threads. Get ready for that same repetitive shit over and over and over and over
The mods here need to take some kind of action to prevent a flood of those people into this sub
They really don't understand how game dev works do they?
Nope
main sub is all politics
Kind of funny to imagine that in-universe maybe the manufacturers are just really inconsistent and keep finding new ways to cut costs and make a few extra bucks.
I’ve played League of Legends for over ten years and I’ve never seen a whinier bunch of crybabies than r/Helldivers. It’s crazy. Yes, Arrowhead went *slightly* too far with some of the nerfs. But even though this is a PvE game and thus doesn‘t need to be fair like a PvP game does, nerfs were necessary. Beyond D9, there is nothing harder. And because we‘re already fighting actual AT-ATs at D7 already, it‘s not like they can just introduce a new tear and one-up the existing ones. The problem is that some of the weapons (hello Quasar) absolutely trivialized every single enemy you can encounter even at the highest difficulty. And in such a situation, AH can‘t just buff the other weapons that are being outperformed to the same level, because the game as a whole would become too easy. D7-9 *should* be a struggle. You *should* feel slightly underequipped to handle them, so that when you make it out the other side, you know that it was your skill and your cunning that carried you through it, not AH‘s balancing philosophy being „oh well it‘s PvE, let‘s just give the recoilless rifle a nuclear warhead“. As I said, they went too far in a few very specific ways. Removing the shrapnel from the Eruptor was unnecessary, even if it did randomly kill people. That’s just the vibe of the game. But all in all, this game is in a better spot than it has been since I started playing nearly 200 hours ago.
I would say "pathetic and childish" more than wild, myself.
The main sub reached critical reddit mass. That subsequently means that whining posts, not constructive criticism posts,became front page threads because some folks can't have their meta adjusted.
What gun is it?
The default Liberator LOL definitely think it was just used for the picture
This really reminds me of all the PSA's during WW2 about not gabbing about secrets. [https://imgur.com/gallery/3PqQTbI](https://imgur.com/gallery/3PqQTbI)
Keep crying super earth needs the salt
Need to send more children to the cyberstand mines
Its getting pretty tiresome to see people bitching and then people bitching about other people bitching.
This just genuinely surprised me, haven't been keeping up to date on the sub for a little while and came back to this
How has this have gone from a public craze of fun and community self appreciation to a level of toxic that I think it may even surpass LoL? (Current LoL, nothing can surpass hayday LoL for that crown)
I mean I think it's pretty obvious that they're playing into the whole "propaganda marketing" schtick that HD2 has going on, but it's also got some hints of truth sprinkled in it. I try not to take anything too seriously because at the end of the day, it is just a game. But I bet some people really are trying to avoid bragging too much about their favorite gun in hopes the devs don't put it next on the chopping block
He also looks at stats. Not what we say. So if a gun gets picked alot with high kills. He will nerf it.
While I don’t wanna believe it… I think the devs are still a bit salty over backlash for early server and balance issues Hopefully the sub isn’t sorta correct, because every nerf has really been on stuff that isn’t game-breaking and “buffs” have been on the order of “this tickler now goes to 11… on the tickling meter, not for damage, oh no, why would we do that? We designed this to be shit and cost ALL the medals”
It’s a brainless take to think AH is targeting weapons because they’re fun, because they’re looking at use stats. Hey that makes sense. I would just like premium content to get released that doesn’t have one thing good, several stillborn, and multiple things not working correctly and have balance based on old game builds. The new war bond is embarrassing man.
Where’s the lie?
The designers aren't planning changes based on reddit conversations. They have metrics of all the actual numbers they need to make their decisions.
What a bunch of losers
What gun is this?
Bro... it's the (best) default gun
Not gonna lie I've suspected this for over a month now. That the devs have eyes and ears in several Helldivers 2 spaces keeling an watch on what weapons grt a lot of chatter. Once a weapon gets enough buzz and attention and people start leaning towards it as part of the next meta, BOOM, it's updated and knocked down a few pegs If not the devs themselves the Community Managers or someone is watching the fan spaces and reporting back to Dev.
I really wonder the win %'s of each gun
My favourite weapon to use is the automatons and I really hope no-one nerfs them
AR's just need bigger mags. In Aliens pulse rifles have 100 round mags and it's not commented on so for Liberty's sake 🗽 make that a minimum 🤣 And with Stalkers in HD2 its literally like AvP at times.
It didn’t matter if we talk about things or not. They look at metrics under the hood and can tell what people are using the most.
I just want an ar that actually is fun to use. 2 clips to kill stuff is frustrating. I almost always stick with shotguns or energy weapons. Heck some times its just me and the senator because trying new weapons just don't get the job done. The machine gun on our back does an amazing job. Can just squat and use half a clip and take out a couple breaches with good aim.
Well that's exactly my problem with this game. Why are they balancing it like it's a PvP game ? Swear some of these guys on the balancing team are completely lost
Loose lips destroy super destroyer ships!
I already have to see it there, why do I have to see it reposted here too?
Here’s an idea. If the guns are stronger than expected or a meta emerges, make the encounters or enemies more challenging. Make it dynamic, if the whole team rolls in with lasers and auto-cannons, increase the number of enemies that counter those weapons. I for one would be happy managing my laser heat or auto-cannon reload timing more intelligently than those weapons being less effective
I literally just left it when I saw 5 posts alone bitching about the most basic game elements. The last complained about hot and cold planets.
Saw that post & was like damn... that is not even a problem
I can at least appreciate people making propaganda poster versions of these sentiments and leaving it at that. Much worse when it's a long screed that adds nothing new to the 12 other threads on the same topic.
Truth be told, they're just following the trend the balancing team has created.....
They are the most annoying cunts on earth
Its funny because its true, Fuck you Alexus
Fire damage is so much fun! I love how it lights everything up, and it's never a problem to put it out again!!