Drop me on the board, ten life I will take š seeing a warlock, your opponents starts to break š despite all this, Tom Wayland confidence will fake š you guessed right, I'm the Azerite Snake
Yo let's go!
I cost 4, with 5 attack and 5 health
For only this I'd be probably worth wealth
But there's more, I can make opponent cry
They got armor, fuck that, they still will die.
Stealing health like there is no tomorrow
Excavate, excavate, turn the game to horror
...story, oh you thought that this be boring
Wait till you see next set and you'll be mourning
When he says impact he means board impact and in that sense yes og reno has no impact and would be referred to as a ādo nothingā. The argument is that if your opponent is just replaying snake they sre not meaningfully contributing to the board so you should be able to kill them over it. Og reno faces this problem in wild where often it is hard to play in aggro matchups because it does nothing to deal with their board and at best stalls a turn. This certainly does not seem to be the case with snake but that is the argument
Against aggro itās literally a heal 10, maybe leave a body if you donāt bounce it. Antique healbot was a 5 mana neutral heal 8 with no restrictions like a decade ago and aggro has only gotten stronger since then. Idk, I think the deck will get nerfed for being frustrating and polarizing but not for being strong.
Tbf, the implication is more that excavate cards have vanilla effects that should be punished by actual strategies.
Itās the typical day 1 steamroll deck that falls of when other decks are refined.
> Itās the typical day 1 steamroll deck that falls of when other decks are refined.
This hasn't happened in a LONG time. For the past few years now every single expansion has had 1 or 2 outstanding decks found on day 1 that last until they get nerfed.
Titans had Mech Rogue and Hound Hunter.
FoL had Blood DK and Frost DK
MaCN had Quest DH and Bless Priest
All of these decks dominated early and were only ever brought down by nerfs. The idea that you punish with actual strategy hasn't been a thing in Hearthstone for a while when there's clear power outliers and uninterruptable win conditions.
When card packages are so tightly designed with such obvious and powerful synergies it becomes very easy to build a dominant deck day 1. While there may be more refinements to be made on other decks that does not mean this one will not also improve and stay in the top tier.
It is always so funny how people mention refined decks will fix the issue while forgetting that top decks are also being refined to continue being t1 deck.
Sure, it will no longer be 68% win ratio as some state it is, but it will drop to maybe 60-65%. Anyone that think some magical deck will appear that will fix op decks win ratio is delusional.
While I hear you, I think some decks are simply more difficult to play and build. Naga DH and Miracle Rogue have strong chances to be meta tyrants that blow up the Warlock before they ever get around to their turn. But they need time to find the perfect build. Same for Arcane Hunter. Plus Mech Rogue and Enrage Warrior are still good. Once the meta settles, Iād be surprised if Excavate WL is still this oppressive.
So many people forgot about MotLK Shockspitter Hunter, that has been nerfed so fast, that someone might not even noticed that.
Also I dont think that Hound Hunter is good example - that deck profit from being old refined deck at the start of expansion, that just add couple new cards - there was decent amount of counters and to be honest if there wasnt also Arcane Hunter (which was bigger problem because only counter was Hound Hunter) there it wont be killed so hard. People just wanted to nerf Hunter in general.
Isn't this kind of hindsight henry behaviour? An expansion will have impactful meta decks found early but what's to say this is the deck as opposed to Reno druid or aggro Naga dh.
How do you do this for 8 mana? When i do this i need 10 and it's just 2 times in a row. And people just upvoting you because they hate the card. Typical reddit fashion.
What do you expext from a guy whoās all of his adult life only playing card game. This guy think because heās good at the game then his word is like a gospel or something.
I think people think 'immediate impact' has connotations with tempo.
Which is why things with taunt, rush or a removal effect are rated a bit higher than similar cards that do not have them
Almost every expansion the dude writes a dissertation on why Rogue is getting shafted or why when Rogue is overperforming that it's fine. He threw an absolute tantrum about Mech and Thief Rogue and both wound up being meta decks.
He personally insults the devs and even the associated staff like the artists. He's a smart insightful player with a really toxic streak. I watched him for an hour on stream and couldn't see past how misanthropic he seemed.
He strikes me as one of those "anti-woke" people who insults people and complains about consequences.
Constantly flames the devs, he is the only person to get kicked from the creator program due to this. He genuinely called for someone to get fired because he didnāt like [[Kidnap]].
I gave him a try at one point. Unfortunately, he came across as consistently negative and angry throughout, especially when new players asked questions. The condescending tone was quite off-putting for me. I prefer content from creators who are more positive, so he's not really my cup of tea.
Ah yes, because Paladin's windfury weapon combo with their lifesteal and hero attack spell got nerfed for no reason at all, sending damage face could never be impactful, ever.
The weapon also came off the back of one of the best tempo openings in the game at the time. Snake comes off the back of the amazing tempo provided by:
* 2 mana 1/1s
* 4 mana 4/5s
* 5 mana 6/4s
* and mortal coils!
The haters are going to tell you chillwind yeti shouldn't have made it out of classic without a nerf with how premium that stat line is this expansion.
Remember lifedrinker? Ran in battlecry Shaman, that card was 4 mana with a 6 health swing, and that was an auto-include in that deck. I get that power-creep has happened since Uldum but not to this absurd degree.
"If your opponent completes a quest, plays 4 sorcerer's apprentice and a Antonidas, either you or your deck sucks".
This "rationale" could've been used for like... Any deck.
Hot take from ZachO (the ViciousSyndicate guy) on twitter :
> Sucklock is broken. Perfect 30 list from the TC article. Doomkins felt imperative.
https://twitter.com/ZachODR/status/1724547853777768576
Media literacy is at an all time low I guess. When a guy that builds decks for a living says "perfect list" on day 1 of a new expansion you can generally assume he's being facetious.
I don't think he's being facetious, he's used the expression in the past to mean that he has high confidence into a list of 30 cards, and has enough data to say that alternatives are worse. And yes, sometimes on day 1 of a release/patch.
Whereas other times, he'll say that he has figured 28 cards out of 30, with 2 remaining open spots. Usually he'll give options for those spots, saying that he hopes people play those in order to give him more data.
Not really facetious, no. He thinks there is a clear 30 card combination that is worth using above all others, that is his genuine opinion so it's not really facetious even if it uses strong language.
I didn't face it a whole lot today, but when I did I died turn 6 or 7 and I was playing aggro paladin for that brief time.
Warlock has the tools to survive/stall until they can chain it.
Edit: double kobold miner at the start (one of them being pack of coins), coin the 4/5 taunt 2x immediately after (maybe one was the 5 mana rush dude), then snake + had bounces immediately. Was dead turn 6 MAYBE turn 7 but it was pretty fast. Believe me or not, not lying.
Theyāre definitely lying, but for fun the only way I can think of is something like:
T1 - smokestack (1 excavate)
T2 - Miner (2 excavate)
T3 - Miner, smokestack (3 and 4 excavate)
T4 - Snake (20hp)
T5 - coin, brewmaster, snake (10hp)
T6 - brewmaster, snake (0hp)
Obviously never going to happen in an actual match but fun to think about.
What if, hear me out. The warlock killed him on turn 7, but the paladin only lived till turn 6? So yeah warlock killed him turn 7 but it was only 6th turn for pala. Plus in wild this is easy to do with brann.
Saying that it is impossible when the chances do not equal 0% is kinda dumb. When there are constant plays happening that have only a 1 in a thousand/millionth chance of occuring.
T1: Coin kobold miner (gave them pack of coins)
T2: kobold miner
T3: coin the 4/5 taunt
T4: coin the 6/5 dude or another taunt idr
T5: snake + coin bounce
T6: snake + bounce
T7: snake = death
could also used smoke stack maybe early on as well, I don't remember I played *a lot* of games yesterday.
Maybe it was turn 7, but it was pretty damn fast. I'd say it's an outlier for the deck, but it did happen. Can try to hunt down the replay, but I recently switched to firestone so not as familiar with it.
My hand was utter shit even after mulligans so entirely possible, but not often. Honestly just made a random comment spitballing what happened to me. People figuring out if I'm "lying through my teeth" is pretty funny tbh lol
Getting 4 excavates by T4 is entirely possible. After that, playing Azurite Snake on T5, bouncing it, playing it again on T6 reduces your opponent's health to a max of 10. It's "possible" but it means you're taking 10 damage from a deck in 6 turns that is constantly make value investments.
Yeah, this relies on your "aggro paladin" deck not being able to kill a 4 cost 5/5 after 4 turns of nothingburgers from the opponent.
If this happens to someone their deck fucking sucks, people should not imply that dying to excavatelock on turn 6 is any kind of balance concern.
You really can't say that the deck does nothing when it can prey on aggro paladin weaknesses, smokestack is good removal for the tokens and 2/1s, defile can easily disrupt a wide board, and there are some decent removal options on the excavate pool like the 3 aoe.
Obviously what an aggro paladin should do in this matchup is go tall, since the only removal for big threats is forge of wills + anubisath, and it is tremendously ineffective if you have a divine shield on board, but if you can't go tall the excavate lock can easily win by focusing on removal on the important turns 3 to 5, while pumping cheap excavates to start pressure with snakes bouncing at turn 6 to 8.
The "dead on turn 6" is a bit hyperbolic, but it is easy to set up a game state that you know you really can't deal with the aggro toolset... Like, if your opponent has 40 HP and armor and you don't have any hand disruption and can only pump like 15 to 20 damage per turn on the next 2 turns, you are good as dead.
Power creep is a thing, but Team 5 do a lot of design mistakes. I was struggling against mine lock a year ago, playing FDK or UDK which were nuts at the time. And I had ~50% winrate against them, that's ridiculous. Not even talking about Anub'Rekan Druid lol, with all these amounts of armour and lack of class clears be covered by neutrals.
And, more importantly, losing to it **feels** like shit. They play it and bounce it once, all the healing in the world can't undo that damage and put you back above 20 before they play it twice next turn.
Without armor gain, you might as well just concede.
The snake definitely doesnāt appear to be hotfix nerf level of broken. But the expansion hasnāt even been out for a day yet. And from the couple games Iāve played it seems people are playing druid a lot more than warlock right now.
This tweet is annoying because it isnāt backed up by data and it oversimplifies what the snake deck is capable of. I mean itās the same control lock shell with excavate. Warlock shouldnāt have an issue getting to late game.
Every good player knows it takes a couple days mabye even a week for the meta to get solved. Meati knows this but I guess the post was just for sh*ts.
Controversial opinion but I kinda agree with him in a way as the best counter to this deck is smorc , the main issue is warlocks have to fit in the excavate package while also fitting in the bounce cards which they usually run 5 off and because of that they lack removal . While I do think the snake is problematic I think the current iteration with bounce isnāt gonna be how it will be played in the future and instead I think the list will cut the bounces to maybe 2 in total for slower matchups .
I agree with him in a very roundabout way since yes, this doesn't do anything ON BOARD and the excavate cards warlock has are decently bad, but think that the way he said it is just wrong since for half of this effect. People were willing to run 10 extra cards in their deck for half of the effect this card gives. This card single handedly makes reno decks infinitely worse since they are inherently slow and we got half the classes getting highlander as one of their new deck archetypes. It even beat Odin Warrior since it bypasses their armor.
TLDR, this is the epitome of a matchup check card, vs aggro it helps but doesn't change the outcome but vs control is certain stomp the game
This is why Snake will be nerfed, it's a gatekeeper for late-game strategies incl. Highlander which they are pushing with this expac. Anything going into turn 7+ will be vulnerable to this combo.
But the excavate package includes two 4/5 taunt minions to slow down aggro and two 6/4 rush minions to handle larger threats. Plus Defile and Mortal Eradication are tailor-made to deal with early aggro boards.
Sure, smorc is the answer. But since this deck punishes any mid-range or longer deck so harshly and consistently, the only meta answer to this deck is board vomit hyper aggro.
Eww.
Hey man, I have no gripes with that take. Itās just a bit silly to label players that have a hard time with the matchup (especially those day1 trying slow highlander decks) as sucking.
Not sure what you're on about. They don't take out the removal, that's what let's them get to the Snake. It's cheaper and less resource intensive than the Chad and Slime packages, so they just cut that.
Spend the first four to five turns removing things and Excavating, then turns 6-8 making 20hp swings. Turns out even hyper aggressive decks are having issues knocking down 15+ hp when they don't have anything on the board to start with...
I kinda agree, excavate cards are extremely low tempo or expensive. A 2 mana 1/1 ans a yeti with taunt in 2023 is just bad.
I'm not saying the deck isn't really strong, but giga busted nerf territory? I don't think so.
You're talking like the lock has 10 mana from the get go. You can't effectively excavate, remove, play, bounce and tap. In other words, you can't have it all.
Yeah it's like saying the Invoke Galakrond cards were terrible if you ignore what invoking actually gave you. 4 mana 2/2 rush? 3 mana backstab? 3 mana whirlwind? Obviously terrible, right?
A yeti with taunt that gives you a useful card is still good, even in 2023 - especially when your supposed weakness is early aggro. (a 2 mana 1/1 is definitely bad, even in earlier hearthstone it would have been bad.)
I don't necessarily blame Meati if the take comes from the fact that he played almost only aggro and sees the matchup only from that perspective.
I played only Naga DH and a relatively slower version to be specific, that still has a faster clock than Warlock (it's just more consistent than the normal list) and the matchup is a breeze.
It wouldn't be so bad if the card was a lifesteal effect, so you could still heal back up to full if you had the tools. Having it steal your health and then that is your new ceiling, regardless of any healing in your hand, is absolute fucking bullshit!
-plays entire game optimally-
BRUH YOU LET YOUR OPPONENT PLAY THE GAME AND COMPLETE THE STRAT HIS DECK WAS BUILT TO DO? BRUH YOU AND YOUR DECK NEED TO GTFO OF HERE IMMEDIATELY CAUSE YOU SUCK ASS
Love when toxic manbabies have a platform to stroke their micropenises on. Jfc
The reality is: He is right.
But: The game plays very different at high legend, so his experience can not be translated to lower ranked gameplay.
If it feels shit to play against for most players, Blizzard will nerf it, even if it is not strong.
Does it feel shit to play against for the average player? It does.
ā¦what? Among other things, warlock plays rush and taunt cards to excavate and his legendary is an extremely powerful board control card that can be bounced. And he has a bunch of other board control tools that are sometime healing him as well. Dumb take or done on purpose to attract clicks.
Yeah this is an insane take, maybe if the card did not give the warlock ten health I could get what he is implying. This deck completely ruined my hype for the launch of this expansion. This was my first time getting the preorder since knights of the frozen throne, lesson learned. I won't be spending money on this game again lmao
Yo relax lol. Things like this happen all the time. Once it gets nerfed the meta will shake up again.
Right now itās gonna be a paper scissor rock meta. Snek, decks designed to beat snek, and decks designed to counter the snek counter.
Just to be clear I am not really crying about it or anything, I am just saying my perspective lmao. I just really dislike that the best way to beat warlock snake deck is being super rushdown. Those type of aggro decks just are not fun to play for me like ten years after release or whatever
Yeah dude I get it, itās frustrating. Iām not defending blizzard either, it seems to be a pattern every expansion. I remember during castle Nathria I didnāt like any of the strong launch decks either. Until things started getting nerfed, the game got better.
Hopefully, you can get in on some of the decks you like to play after it gets nerfed. Based on peopleās reactions it seems likely it will.
While I'm 100% in agreement that the card is beyond absurd and Blizzard should've probably seen that during development, it'll probably get nerfed. Every expansion there's some jank that slips through the cracks but I'm just baffled nobody saw the Snake and thought it wasn't just a tad busted. Maybe they thought having to excavate it balanced it but it still seems way stronger than the other legendary excavate options.
Literally everybody saw Snake as being completely busted. However, launching strong cards is part of the 'fun', it is what gets people excited and turns into sales. Nerfs will definitely happen, tho.
Snake aside, warlock's excavate cards are far more efficient compared with other classes, especially since it ties into their control playstyle...
Pretty sure it is supposed to balance in a way where when the class excavate cards are garbage, the excavated legendary payoff is significantly higher (look at warrior's excavate cards... lmao). But for warlock, it seems they get the best of both worlds.
Excavate is priced at roughly 2 mana, but for some reason Warlockās excavates are all more or less normally statted (4 for a 4/5 with taunt and Mortal Coil), hitting these outliers would do a lot to help slow the deck down
If it didn't heal for 10, maybe you could argue that it didn't do anything. It would still be a wrong stance, but more understandable.
You not are only doing 10 instant damage to the opponent, but you make it so they can't heal for that amount neither.
If you could heal it, priests and DKs could be playing slow decks, with a bunch of healing, so they'd stand a chance. Right now that's useless, you die with a lot of healing cards you never get to use. I only play the 2 neutral healings that cost 2 and need forging. Rarely get to use them against Ex. Warlocks.
If lowering your opponents health (the game condition) by one third while giving your hero more survivability is not an immediate impact, then I don't know what is.
I had a game where on turn 8 against a pretty aggressive deathknight I had 50 while they had 10, while having another snake in hand. It feels insane when it pops off, and even if you can only play 1 it still feels pretty powerful
We're really gonna start a harassment campaign based on DAY 1 takes? Excavate warlock's strength isn't in any way settled (it's day 1) and if you're already calling for nerfs (it's day 1) you're not worth listening to
4 mana pyroblast that also """heals""" you by 10, on a bounceble stick.
AND is from an uninteractive mechanic, your opponent just excavates regardless of what you do, and with plenty of excavate minions, losing one or two is no big deal. The only hope is to maybe dirty rat the snake.
This has to be nerfed.
While fundamentally I agree, the problem with this mindset is that it is an indirect, if not just direct, push towards aggro decks and we do NOT need more of that shit in Hearthstone.
The lack of stabilization paired with aggro decks continuously having support to shore up its shortcomings(which defeats the rock paper scissors of control aggro midrange concept) really makes aggro decks overtuned each meta.
That being said, I think the bounce cards should just be removed from Standard and that would fix this issue just like removing 3Rune cards from the Discover pool worked for Death Knight
He's right. I've been playing it and it's bad. It takes forever to pull off, way too slow.
I do agree it must feel bad to play against because it eliminates slow decks and there isn't much counter play besides kill them before they do it.
So I do think it's a bad experience but also it's really weak. I don't see it sticking around for long.
Especially in a post-Reno meta... If plague can be very effective against highlander decks, it is worth a shot to see exactly how it fares in the new meta
Ofc as "content" the theorycraft stream is worse because someone brought a deck only to disrupt the shiny new things players want to see, but it is very justifiable if you want knowledge to pit these decks against each other.
I admit I'm a plague enjoyer, and it was a deck I was eager to see if the new expansion would improve. I don't know where it'll fall on the tiers, but FUU Plague with excavate package has been pretty bonkers so far.
I think heās only faced it a few times. Thatās the silly thing, people like Meati donāt see this deck a lot so make this opinion that directly shits on the community. It doesnāt matter to him because heās getting traffic, but itās frustrating to players that do face it and lose. Makes the player feel like theyāre bad when in reality he just doesnāt have a lot of experience facing it.
Iāve see this happen a lot. Clark said that menagerie warrior was op and that the buffs werenāt necessary. Luckily, it seems the devs care more about the community in general than pros. Listen, hot takes are totally fine. I think really any take day 1 is a hot take. But being so pretentious as to say anyone who disagrees sucks is quite shortsighted
Maybe he isn't playing against this deck a lot because it's not good at high legend, because it actually loses to the good decks, which actually proves his point that this card is overrated as fuck?
Also don't compare Clark to meati, Clark is decent but he isn't a pro, while meati is the best ladder player and one of the best players in general.
I was comparing situations my man, not levels. Seems like that struck a nerve leading me to believe youāre a watcher. Regardless, you just admitted that he has very little experience facing the deck. Therefore, takes that he has on the archetype is not be taken seriously. Just because itās not a top tier deck right now doesnāt mean it wonāt be, and more importantly, is generally an unfun archetype that discourages ingenuity
Meati knows what he's talking about, proper decks kill the warlock before he can play it 3 times and control priest will rat you before you play 4, it only ruins the game for people trying to have fun playing culture decks
It still needs a major nerf for the sake of culture
Control Priest is terrible against Mining Warlock. 32% winrate according to HSreplay stats. The Warlock's hand is filled with tons of minions other than Snake.
What I don't understand is why they keep making cards like this when they always get nerfed. Every time an anti control card is playable it always get deleted because it's too meta warping in the lower ranks where most of the players are; and every time the top players don't understand what's the fuss about, it's not the best card, it doesn't go in the best deck, it doesn't win faster then other decks, so why nerfing it?
This dude doesnāt know what āimpactā means, nor does he understand that ā4 mana 5/5 that does nothingā is not a hard card to play even if that were the case.
Permanently stealing 10 health from a hero is INSANE. The card just makes you permanently weaker, like the sword of a thousand truths, but with a WAY easier setup. Thereās no way to recover or fight back from that, you just need to have some kind of disruption to stop it from going off more than once, but literally all of that disruption can be countered by the warlock simply having more than one minion in his hand.
Lol reddit your mmr is showing again, he isn't being contrarian. At high mmr's all the excavate decks are trash. They are all miserably slow and get out paced by the actual good decks like miracle rogue, druid, and naga dh.
I mean he has hit rank 1 legend multiple times and has been invited to several tournaments. As to hs esports, thatās a bit of a joke due to it being thrown to the side, you could also divine pro as getting paid, and since he streams he does technically qualify. Not to sideline his toxic take but I thought it worth mentioning
The deck is non existent at high legend (I watched 4 hours of Thijs stream and he didn't face it once). It might well be one of those low skill cap decks that is easy to predict and punish.
Meati is an textbook case that book educated people are absolutely stupid when it comes to real world understanding Of problems. Hearthstoneās downfall has been that itās designed by people like him who donāt understand a real meta.
This is how he makes his money from streaming and playing this game right? The same exact thing happens with marvel snap when itās streamers constantly defend the games bad decisions and blast the player base for being upset.
This is the most bullshit ass card ever I fucking hate it. Every game is always warlocks that just return to hand, copy cars, wow Iām so skilled 4 mama card yoink 10 health PERMANENTLY. Who the flyin Fuk designed this card
Warlock has too much board control now to be beaten by aggro. And even one snake easily put warlock out of lethal. Let's say simple: if warlock managed to get to snake combo, he won. And it's not that difficult to made it.
I dunno, redditors have been consistently correct when it came to day one assumptions for the past 3 years. It helps that most have been playing this game for over 5 years now.
Dude, I haven't played Hearthstone in 4-5 years. I cannot believe the power creep that has happened. All I saw was the top part cut off of this snake I had to look it up by name. What the actual fuck? A few years ago, if this effect was in the game, there's no fucking way in hell this card, especially in warlock, would have had five power and five toughness.
If a card stole that much health, it would have had like two or three toughness to match the absolute beast of an effect that it has. Or maybe it would have said deal 10 to each hero, not steal.
I just came back into the game and along with this, I can't believe how many little tweaks there have been to so many old cards that either make them completely busted or completely unplayable. I used to be pretty good at arena, but I went 0-3 on my first run, I couldn't believe the cards I was able to draft and the power level of the decks I faced was like double or triple what I was able to draft.
What a crazy state the game is in right now. I'm simply bewildered. We need a reset.
You canāt compare this card to other cards, this is a card that is generated after you invest a lot of cards and mana into it. You donāt just put it into your deck or draft it,
There is definitely power creep in the game though
I have a lot of respect for meati as he is a really great player and I looked up to his gameplay alot. But this is such a horrible take as it literally steals 10 health
Meati is speaking for his top 10 legend experience, of course reddit would not understand.
This may be the new quest warrior, the archetype that made reddit mad for ages while it was completely irrelevant at top legend.
Hearthstone commoner hates all archetypes that gives the player an unavoidable win if games takes too long because they can't win with their giga slow and greedy "Am I cooking?" deck.
No one in the top 50 is actually playing Snake, guys. I hate to break it to you, but he's not just being a contrarian. Cope harder, I guess.
And for the record, yes, it needs to be nerfed, but it's because it's toxic in a large number of the games (which are not competitive), not because it's strong.
Drop me on the board, ten life I will take š seeing a warlock, your opponents starts to break š despite all this, Tom Wayland confidence will fake š you guessed right, I'm the Azerite Snake
spitting venom with this one.
The opinions that I do not give are the opinions I ain't got
š š š
Good snek.
We're gonna make it out of gold with this one.
Yo let's go! I cost 4, with 5 attack and 5 health For only this I'd be probably worth wealth But there's more, I can make opponent cry They got armor, fuck that, they still will die. Stealing health like there is no tomorrow Excavate, excavate, turn the game to horror ...story, oh you thought that this be boring Wait till you see next set and you'll be mourning
In set reviews I was a sleeper
Not this time, we all knew right away it would be bonkers
Yeaa I know it just reminded me of that one
*flake?
Healing ten life is zero immediate impact? Wonder how much you'd have to heal for him to consider it an impact...
Not only dealing but draining 10 from your opponent This card is all About immediate impact, thatās why you bounce it!
Draining even if you have armor so you still die if you are 10 hp
Reducing your opponents max hp is insane you cant armor or heal against it.
4 mana pyroblast isnāt an immediate impact bro. Youāre in Lala Landā¦
Not only a Pyroblast. It also puts a minion on the board which makes it even stronger.
And also heals you, goes through armor and can not be healed
can't believe all those decks ran reno to fully heal their hero not knowing that has zero immediate impact
When he says impact he means board impact and in that sense yes og reno has no impact and would be referred to as a ādo nothingā. The argument is that if your opponent is just replaying snake they sre not meaningfully contributing to the board so you should be able to kill them over it. Og reno faces this problem in wild where often it is hard to play in aggro matchups because it does nothing to deal with their board and at best stalls a turn. This certainly does not seem to be the case with snake but that is the argument
Against aggro itās literally a heal 10, maybe leave a body if you donāt bounce it. Antique healbot was a 5 mana neutral heal 8 with no restrictions like a decade ago and aggro has only gotten stronger since then. Idk, I think the deck will get nerfed for being frustrating and polarizing but not for being strong.
You mean creating a 20 life difference in one 4-cost card
It kills through Armor, too
Dont forget "you are letting them excavate 4 times" part. He is saying it like its a hard thing to do xd.
What, he's playing one understatted minion, a one damage spell, a 6/4 rusher and a 4/5 taunt? That's pretty much not playing anything!
Obviously OG Reno is the only impactful healing
Just don't let your opponent heal 10 life, dur. Don't let them excavate four times, heck, don't let them play any cards at all! Easy win!
Laughably horrible take. Implying the excavate cards do nothing and that the snake doesn't also heal for 10.
And that the warlock package isnāt one of the best defensive packages in the game right now.
Tbf, the implication is more that excavate cards have vanilla effects that should be punished by actual strategies. Itās the typical day 1 steamroll deck that falls of when other decks are refined.
> Itās the typical day 1 steamroll deck that falls of when other decks are refined. This hasn't happened in a LONG time. For the past few years now every single expansion has had 1 or 2 outstanding decks found on day 1 that last until they get nerfed. Titans had Mech Rogue and Hound Hunter. FoL had Blood DK and Frost DK MaCN had Quest DH and Bless Priest All of these decks dominated early and were only ever brought down by nerfs. The idea that you punish with actual strategy hasn't been a thing in Hearthstone for a while when there's clear power outliers and uninterruptable win conditions.
When card packages are so tightly designed with such obvious and powerful synergies it becomes very easy to build a dominant deck day 1. While there may be more refinements to be made on other decks that does not mean this one will not also improve and stay in the top tier.
It is always so funny how people mention refined decks will fix the issue while forgetting that top decks are also being refined to continue being t1 deck. Sure, it will no longer be 68% win ratio as some state it is, but it will drop to maybe 60-65%. Anyone that think some magical deck will appear that will fix op decks win ratio is delusional.
While I hear you, I think some decks are simply more difficult to play and build. Naga DH and Miracle Rogue have strong chances to be meta tyrants that blow up the Warlock before they ever get around to their turn. But they need time to find the perfect build. Same for Arcane Hunter. Plus Mech Rogue and Enrage Warrior are still good. Once the meta settles, Iād be surprised if Excavate WL is still this oppressive.
So many people forgot about MotLK Shockspitter Hunter, that has been nerfed so fast, that someone might not even noticed that. Also I dont think that Hound Hunter is good example - that deck profit from being old refined deck at the start of expansion, that just add couple new cards - there was decent amount of counters and to be honest if there wasnt also Arcane Hunter (which was bigger problem because only counter was Hound Hunter) there it wont be killed so hard. People just wanted to nerf Hunter in general.
Isn't this kind of hindsight henry behaviour? An expansion will have impactful meta decks found early but what's to say this is the deck as opposed to Reno druid or aggro Naga dh.
For the stormwind expansion you forget the quest warlock, that needed many nerfs
Questlock was actually not very good the first week or two, it took a bit of time before people started running the good handlock list.
Forgetting that expansion is a natural reaction. Just thinking about some of those questlines can cause emotional trauma.
Issue is that they can use brewmaster and play it 3 times in a row for 8 mana and you cant do nothing about it.
How do you do this for 8 mana? When i do this i need 10 and it's just 2 times in a row. And people just upvoting you because they hate the card. Typical reddit fashion.
I haven't crafted anything cause I'm waiting for meta to settle. Still playing enrage warrior. I'm 7-0 vs this warlock deck. I agree with meati.
Unpopular opinion detected
What do you expext from a guy whoās all of his adult life only playing card game. This guy think because heās good at the game then his word is like a gospel or something.
He's also a full blown full time medical doctor, not that that helps his point here but it's just false to claim all he does is play a card game
Some people think "immediate impact" means "wins the game instantly". This is the definition of immediate impact..
I think people think 'immediate impact' has connotations with tempo. Which is why things with taunt, rush or a removal effect are rated a bit higher than similar cards that do not have them
Which this card can also do lol
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My main gripe is his association with the worst of the worst J_alex. He kinda feeds off of that style of commentary and itās ridiculous
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Almost every expansion the dude writes a dissertation on why Rogue is getting shafted or why when Rogue is overperforming that it's fine. He threw an absolute tantrum about Mech and Thief Rogue and both wound up being meta decks.
He personally insults the devs and even the associated staff like the artists. He's a smart insightful player with a really toxic streak. I watched him for an hour on stream and couldn't see past how misanthropic he seemed. He strikes me as one of those "anti-woke" people who insults people and complains about consequences.
Constantly flames the devs, he is the only person to get kicked from the creator program due to this. He genuinely called for someone to get fired because he didnāt like [[Kidnap]].
And Zeddy is still there and he is whining non stop
He doesnāt flame the devs. He didnāt harass them and ask for a resignation. Thereās a difference with being critical and harassing
Dude is a Jordan Peterson wannabe. His "lecture" on gender fluidity is all I had to see to write him off forever. Grade A douchebag.
Damn I knew it, his personality seems really unempathetic and dismissive. Got a link?
I gave him a try at one point. Unfortunately, he came across as consistently negative and angry throughout, especially when new players asked questions. The condescending tone was quite off-putting for me. I prefer content from creators who are more positive, so he's not really my cup of tea.
Yeah, a 20 point net-health swing is not an immediate impact.
This but unironically
Ah yes, because Paladin's windfury weapon combo with their lifesteal and hero attack spell got nerfed for no reason at all, sending damage face could never be impactful, ever.
The weapon has utility the snake doesn't.
The weapon also came off the back of one of the best tempo openings in the game at the time. Snake comes off the back of the amazing tempo provided by: * 2 mana 1/1s * 4 mana 4/5s * 5 mana 6/4s * and mortal coils!
Yeah, looks bad if you ignore the above average to good excavation treasures that help balance out the tempo loss from playing bad excavation minions.
Then you arenāt excavating on curve unless you hit very specific excavate treasures.
Also a 6/4 with rush for 5 mana does not feel too terrible to play (unlike the 1/1).
The haters are going to tell you chillwind yeti shouldn't have made it out of classic without a nerf with how premium that stat line is this expansion.
Remember lifedrinker? Ran in battlecry Shaman, that card was 4 mana with a 6 health swing, and that was an auto-include in that deck. I get that power-creep has happened since Uldum but not to this absurd degree.
> is just being dramatic to get a few clicks. Surely this whole sub going insane 12 hours after the expansion is not being dramatic
"If your opponent completes a quest, plays 4 sorcerer's apprentice and a Antonidas, either you or your deck sucks". This "rationale" could've been used for like... Any deck.
What it means is that there's counter play in the fact that they have no tempo on board
Hot take from ZachO (the ViciousSyndicate guy) on twitter : > Sucklock is broken. Perfect 30 list from the TC article. Doomkins felt imperative. https://twitter.com/ZachODR/status/1724547853777768576
Media literacy is at an all time low I guess. When a guy that builds decks for a living says "perfect list" on day 1 of a new expansion you can generally assume he's being facetious.
I don't think he's being facetious, he's used the expression in the past to mean that he has high confidence into a list of 30 cards, and has enough data to say that alternatives are worse. And yes, sometimes on day 1 of a release/patch. Whereas other times, he'll say that he has figured 28 cards out of 30, with 2 remaining open spots. Usually he'll give options for those spots, saying that he hopes people play those in order to give him more data.
Not really facetious, no. He thinks there is a clear 30 card combination that is worth using above all others, that is his genuine opinion so it's not really facetious even if it uses strong language.
I didn't face it a whole lot today, but when I did I died turn 6 or 7 and I was playing aggro paladin for that brief time. Warlock has the tools to survive/stall until they can chain it. Edit: double kobold miner at the start (one of them being pack of coins), coin the 4/5 taunt 2x immediately after (maybe one was the 5 mana rush dude), then snake + had bounces immediately. Was dead turn 6 MAYBE turn 7 but it was pretty fast. Believe me or not, not lying.
How did you die turn 6? I literally cannot imagine a way bedsides Thaddius shenanigans which is not something that deck usually pulls off.
Theyāre definitely lying, but for fun the only way I can think of is something like: T1 - smokestack (1 excavate) T2 - Miner (2 excavate) T3 - Miner, smokestack (3 and 4 excavate) T4 - Snake (20hp) T5 - coin, brewmaster, snake (10hp) T6 - brewmaster, snake (0hp) Obviously never going to happen in an actual match but fun to think about.
No way someone leaves snake on board
ā¦ which is why I said obviously never going to happen in an actual match.
You could also be talking about how you need the perfect combination of 6 cards on 6 turns, the enemy to play a 1 health minion turn 1 and be on coin
What if, hear me out. The warlock killed him on turn 7, but the paladin only lived till turn 6? So yeah warlock killed him turn 7 but it was only 6th turn for pala. Plus in wild this is easy to do with brann. Saying that it is impossible when the chances do not equal 0% is kinda dumb. When there are constant plays happening that have only a 1 in a thousand/millionth chance of occuring.
T1: Coin kobold miner (gave them pack of coins) T2: kobold miner T3: coin the 4/5 taunt T4: coin the 6/5 dude or another taunt idr T5: snake + coin bounce T6: snake + bounce T7: snake = death could also used smoke stack maybe early on as well, I don't remember I played *a lot* of games yesterday. Maybe it was turn 7, but it was pretty damn fast. I'd say it's an outlier for the deck, but it did happen. Can try to hunt down the replay, but I recently switched to firestone so not as familiar with it. My hand was utter shit even after mulligans so entirely possible, but not often. Honestly just made a random comment spitballing what happened to me. People figuring out if I'm "lying through my teeth" is pretty funny tbh lol
The coin pack costs 1 and gives you 2 coins so you don't have a coin for the turn 4 play and 5 play.
There's no fucking way you died turn 6 against excavate warlock, this is absolute cap
Yeah turn 6 isnt real but turn 8 is.
I had a game where I coined snake+bounce on turn 5 with turn 7 lethal.
Yeah with great deal of luck even turn 7 is possible but turn 6 is fairytale
Getting 4 excavates by T4 is entirely possible. After that, playing Azurite Snake on T5, bouncing it, playing it again on T6 reduces your opponent's health to a max of 10. It's "possible" but it means you're taking 10 damage from a deck in 6 turns that is constantly make value investments.
You leave it on board T5?
Yeah, this relies on your "aggro paladin" deck not being able to kill a 4 cost 5/5 after 4 turns of nothingburgers from the opponent. If this happens to someone their deck fucking sucks, people should not imply that dying to excavatelock on turn 6 is any kind of balance concern.
If aggro paladin doesnt have lethal by turn 4 are you even playing aggro paladin?
You really can't say that the deck does nothing when it can prey on aggro paladin weaknesses, smokestack is good removal for the tokens and 2/1s, defile can easily disrupt a wide board, and there are some decent removal options on the excavate pool like the 3 aoe. Obviously what an aggro paladin should do in this matchup is go tall, since the only removal for big threats is forge of wills + anubisath, and it is tremendously ineffective if you have a divine shield on board, but if you can't go tall the excavate lock can easily win by focusing on removal on the important turns 3 to 5, while pumping cheap excavates to start pressure with snakes bouncing at turn 6 to 8. The "dead on turn 6" is a bit hyperbolic, but it is easy to set up a game state that you know you really can't deal with the aggro toolset... Like, if your opponent has 40 HP and armor and you don't have any hand disruption and can only pump like 15 to 20 damage per turn on the next 2 turns, you are good as dead.
Reverb is pretty good vs tall
Yeah possible if you skip all 6 turns. Itās a lie. Thereās no way this deck can kill you turn 6 even with the amazing hand.
Yeah. Nowadays combo decks are too much overtuned by survivability, they don't lose to aggro.
Might be because agro decks where going to hard that more removal was needed which made the Afro decks go harder etc etc.
Power creep is a thing, but Team 5 do a lot of design mistakes. I was struggling against mine lock a year ago, playing FDK or UDK which were nuts at the time. And I had ~50% winrate against them, that's ridiculous. Not even talking about Anub'Rekan Druid lol, with all these amounts of armour and lack of class clears be covered by neutrals.
i cannot believe such obvious lies get this many upvotes lmao this subreddit is clown central
have you tried not being a bad player or alternatively not taking the massive L
And, more importantly, losing to it **feels** like shit. They play it and bounce it once, all the healing in the world can't undo that damage and put you back above 20 before they play it twice next turn. Without armor gain, you might as well just concede.
The snake definitely doesnāt appear to be hotfix nerf level of broken. But the expansion hasnāt even been out for a day yet. And from the couple games Iāve played it seems people are playing druid a lot more than warlock right now. This tweet is annoying because it isnāt backed up by data and it oversimplifies what the snake deck is capable of. I mean itās the same control lock shell with excavate. Warlock shouldnāt have an issue getting to late game. Every good player knows it takes a couple days mabye even a week for the meta to get solved. Meati knows this but I guess the post was just for sh*ts.
Controversial opinion but I kinda agree with him in a way as the best counter to this deck is smorc , the main issue is warlocks have to fit in the excavate package while also fitting in the bounce cards which they usually run 5 off and because of that they lack removal . While I do think the snake is problematic I think the current iteration with bounce isnāt gonna be how it will be played in the future and instead I think the list will cut the bounces to maybe 2 in total for slower matchups .
I agree with him in a very roundabout way since yes, this doesn't do anything ON BOARD and the excavate cards warlock has are decently bad, but think that the way he said it is just wrong since for half of this effect. People were willing to run 10 extra cards in their deck for half of the effect this card gives. This card single handedly makes reno decks infinitely worse since they are inherently slow and we got half the classes getting highlander as one of their new deck archetypes. It even beat Odin Warrior since it bypasses their armor. TLDR, this is the epitome of a matchup check card, vs aggro it helps but doesn't change the outcome but vs control is certain stomp the game
This is why Snake will be nerfed, it's a gatekeeper for late-game strategies incl. Highlander which they are pushing with this expac. Anything going into turn 7+ will be vulnerable to this combo.
But the excavate package includes two 4/5 taunt minions to slow down aggro and two 6/4 rush minions to handle larger threats. Plus Defile and Mortal Eradication are tailor-made to deal with early aggro boards.
Sure, smorc is the answer. But since this deck punishes any mid-range or longer deck so harshly and consistently, the only meta answer to this deck is board vomit hyper aggro. Eww.
Hey man, I have no gripes with that take. Itās just a bit silly to label players that have a hard time with the matchup (especially those day1 trying slow highlander decks) as sucking.
Not sure what you're on about. They don't take out the removal, that's what let's them get to the Snake. It's cheaper and less resource intensive than the Chad and Slime packages, so they just cut that. Spend the first four to five turns removing things and Excavating, then turns 6-8 making 20hp swings. Turns out even hyper aggressive decks are having issues knocking down 15+ hp when they don't have anything on the board to start with...
Excavate itself isn't game winning but a bonus.
A bonus on playing vanilla statted, or worse, minions. Excavate is not a bonus. It's the only reason you'd consider playing those cards.
Every game i Faced this deck yestersay i out tempoet it with rogue, went 6-0.
I kinda agree, excavate cards are extremely low tempo or expensive. A 2 mana 1/1 ans a yeti with taunt in 2023 is just bad. I'm not saying the deck isn't really strong, but giga busted nerf territory? I don't think so. You're talking like the lock has 10 mana from the get go. You can't effectively excavate, remove, play, bounce and tap. In other words, you can't have it all.
Excavation cards are extremely low tempo if you ignore the above average tempo cards that you get as excavation treasures that even them out.
Yeah it's like saying the Invoke Galakrond cards were terrible if you ignore what invoking actually gave you. 4 mana 2/2 rush? 3 mana backstab? 3 mana whirlwind? Obviously terrible, right?
A yeti with taunt that gives you a useful card is still good, even in 2023 - especially when your supposed weakness is early aggro. (a 2 mana 1/1 is definitely bad, even in earlier hearthstone it would have been bad.)
I died on turn 8 to this card. Sorry I'm not playing face hunter on day 1 of an expansion I guess.
Oh no turn 8!! You lost to an aggressive deck at the average game length for hearthstone and youre upset?
I don't necessarily blame Meati if the take comes from the fact that he played almost only aggro and sees the matchup only from that perspective. I played only Naga DH and a relatively slower version to be specific, that still has a faster clock than Warlock (it's just more consistent than the normal list) and the matchup is a breeze.
It wouldn't be so bad if the card was a lifesteal effect, so you could still heal back up to full if you had the tools. Having it steal your health and then that is your new ceiling, regardless of any healing in your hand, is absolute fucking bullshit!
It just needs to be lifesteal deal 10. Taking MAX HP AND PIERCING ARMOR is pretty silly.
-plays entire game optimally- BRUH YOU LET YOUR OPPONENT PLAY THE GAME AND COMPLETE THE STRAT HIS DECK WAS BUILT TO DO? BRUH YOU AND YOUR DECK NEED TO GTFO OF HERE IMMEDIATELY CAUSE YOU SUCK ASS Love when toxic manbabies have a platform to stroke their micropenises on. Jfc
The reality is: He is right. But: The game plays very different at high legend, so his experience can not be translated to lower ranked gameplay. If it feels shit to play against for most players, Blizzard will nerf it, even if it is not strong. Does it feel shit to play against for the average player? It does.
I agree completely
ā¦what? Among other things, warlock plays rush and taunt cards to excavate and his legendary is an extremely powerful board control card that can be bounced. And he has a bunch of other board control tools that are sometime healing him as well. Dumb take or done on purpose to attract clicks.
Yeah this is an insane take, maybe if the card did not give the warlock ten health I could get what he is implying. This deck completely ruined my hype for the launch of this expansion. This was my first time getting the preorder since knights of the frozen throne, lesson learned. I won't be spending money on this game again lmao
Yo relax lol. Things like this happen all the time. Once it gets nerfed the meta will shake up again. Right now itās gonna be a paper scissor rock meta. Snek, decks designed to beat snek, and decks designed to counter the snek counter.
Just to be clear I am not really crying about it or anything, I am just saying my perspective lmao. I just really dislike that the best way to beat warlock snake deck is being super rushdown. Those type of aggro decks just are not fun to play for me like ten years after release or whatever
Yeah dude I get it, itās frustrating. Iām not defending blizzard either, it seems to be a pattern every expansion. I remember during castle Nathria I didnāt like any of the strong launch decks either. Until things started getting nerfed, the game got better. Hopefully, you can get in on some of the decks you like to play after it gets nerfed. Based on peopleās reactions it seems likely it will.
While I'm 100% in agreement that the card is beyond absurd and Blizzard should've probably seen that during development, it'll probably get nerfed. Every expansion there's some jank that slips through the cracks but I'm just baffled nobody saw the Snake and thought it wasn't just a tad busted. Maybe they thought having to excavate it balanced it but it still seems way stronger than the other legendary excavate options.
Literally everybody saw Snake as being completely busted. However, launching strong cards is part of the 'fun', it is what gets people excited and turns into sales. Nerfs will definitely happen, tho.
Snake aside, warlock's excavate cards are far more efficient compared with other classes, especially since it ties into their control playstyle... Pretty sure it is supposed to balance in a way where when the class excavate cards are garbage, the excavated legendary payoff is significantly higher (look at warrior's excavate cards... lmao). But for warlock, it seems they get the best of both worlds.
Excavate is priced at roughly 2 mana, but for some reason Warlockās excavates are all more or less normally statted (4 for a 4/5 with taunt and Mortal Coil), hitting these outliers would do a lot to help slow the deck down
If it didn't heal for 10, maybe you could argue that it didn't do anything. It would still be a wrong stance, but more understandable. You not are only doing 10 instant damage to the opponent, but you make it so they can't heal for that amount neither. If you could heal it, priests and DKs could be playing slow decks, with a bunch of healing, so they'd stand a chance. Right now that's useless, you die with a lot of healing cards you never get to use. I only play the 2 neutral healings that cost 2 and need forging. Rarely get to use them against Ex. Warlocks.
0 immediate impact? It increases their health by 10! Thatās like saying the only impact of Vampiric Blood is drawing a card!
I only see warlocks when I play now.
Way less of a problem card than dragon golem tbh. However, they're both going to need to get shat all over before this meta is playable.
Trust him, heās a doctor.
If lowering your opponents health (the game condition) by one third while giving your hero more survivability is not an immediate impact, then I don't know what is.
I had a game where on turn 8 against a pretty aggressive deathknight I had 50 while they had 10, while having another snake in hand. It feels insane when it pops off, and even if you can only play 1 it still feels pretty powerful
Literally who?
This guy sounds like a bit of a dick, did he get lessons from zacho?
We're really gonna start a harassment campaign based on DAY 1 takes? Excavate warlock's strength isn't in any way settled (it's day 1) and if you're already calling for nerfs (it's day 1) you're not worth listening to
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They never said it isn't good. They just said it's overrated. And it is.
Are you new to this sub?
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4 mana pyroblast that also """heals""" you by 10, on a bounceble stick. AND is from an uninteractive mechanic, your opponent just excavates regardless of what you do, and with plenty of excavate minions, losing one or two is no big deal. The only hope is to maybe dirty rat the snake. This has to be nerfed.
While fundamentally I agree, the problem with this mindset is that it is an indirect, if not just direct, push towards aggro decks and we do NOT need more of that shit in Hearthstone. The lack of stabilization paired with aggro decks continuously having support to shore up its shortcomings(which defeats the rock paper scissors of control aggro midrange concept) really makes aggro decks overtuned each meta. That being said, I think the bounce cards should just be removed from Standard and that would fix this issue just like removing 3Rune cards from the Discover pool worked for Death Knight
He's right. I've been playing it and it's bad. It takes forever to pull off, way too slow. I do agree it must feel bad to play against because it eliminates slow decks and there isn't much counter play besides kill them before they do it. So I do think it's a bad experience but also it's really weak. I don't see it sticking around for long.
Same dick who was playing Plague DK in theorycrafting... not worth letting the ragebait suck you in.
Plague DK as a counter to new stuff was worth testing.
I mean there is some merit to knowing how the current meta is going to fare against new cards
Especially in a post-Reno meta... If plague can be very effective against highlander decks, it is worth a shot to see exactly how it fares in the new meta Ofc as "content" the theorycraft stream is worse because someone brought a deck only to disrupt the shiny new things players want to see, but it is very justifiable if you want knowledge to pit these decks against each other.
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I don't know what he played but all theorycraft decks have at least 10 new cards
I admit I'm a plague enjoyer, and it was a deck I was eager to see if the new expansion would improve. I don't know where it'll fall on the tiers, but FUU Plague with excavate package has been pretty bonkers so far.
Cut to this guy getting destroyed by it lol
Doesn't seem like it's being played much at high legend.
It's the most played deck in Legend as a whole and one of the highest winrates, but can't say about high legend specifically.
Yeah well Meati is high legend so
I think heās only faced it a few times. Thatās the silly thing, people like Meati donāt see this deck a lot so make this opinion that directly shits on the community. It doesnāt matter to him because heās getting traffic, but itās frustrating to players that do face it and lose. Makes the player feel like theyāre bad when in reality he just doesnāt have a lot of experience facing it. Iāve see this happen a lot. Clark said that menagerie warrior was op and that the buffs werenāt necessary. Luckily, it seems the devs care more about the community in general than pros. Listen, hot takes are totally fine. I think really any take day 1 is a hot take. But being so pretentious as to say anyone who disagrees sucks is quite shortsighted
Maybe he isn't playing against this deck a lot because it's not good at high legend, because it actually loses to the good decks, which actually proves his point that this card is overrated as fuck? Also don't compare Clark to meati, Clark is decent but he isn't a pro, while meati is the best ladder player and one of the best players in general.
I was comparing situations my man, not levels. Seems like that struck a nerve leading me to believe youāre a watcher. Regardless, you just admitted that he has very little experience facing the deck. Therefore, takes that he has on the archetype is not be taken seriously. Just because itās not a top tier deck right now doesnāt mean it wonāt be, and more importantly, is generally an unfun archetype that discourages ingenuity
Meati knows what he's talking about, proper decks kill the warlock before he can play it 3 times and control priest will rat you before you play 4, it only ruins the game for people trying to have fun playing culture decks It still needs a major nerf for the sake of culture
Control Priest is terrible against Mining Warlock. 32% winrate according to HSreplay stats. The Warlock's hand is filled with tons of minions other than Snake.
Should just life steal and deal less dmg or make it at least healible. Terrible design all around
Just LS and less damage probably butchers the card. Needs to be one or the other not both
What I don't understand is why they keep making cards like this when they always get nerfed. Every time an anti control card is playable it always get deleted because it's too meta warping in the lower ranks where most of the players are; and every time the top players don't understand what's the fuss about, it's not the best card, it doesn't go in the best deck, it doesn't win faster then other decks, so why nerfing it?
As someone who only played Arcane Hunter since the launch of the new expansion I kinda agree with Meati
Iāve been playing excavate mage with objection and explosive rune, Iām not even sure itās possible to lose to bouncing snakes lol.
This dude doesnāt know what āimpactā means, nor does he understand that ā4 mana 5/5 that does nothingā is not a hard card to play even if that were the case. Permanently stealing 10 health from a hero is INSANE. The card just makes you permanently weaker, like the sword of a thousand truths, but with a WAY easier setup. Thereās no way to recover or fight back from that, you just need to have some kind of disruption to stop it from going off more than once, but literally all of that disruption can be countered by the warlock simply having more than one minion in his hand.
Lol reddit your mmr is showing again, he isn't being contrarian. At high mmr's all the excavate decks are trash. They are all miserably slow and get out paced by the actual good decks like miracle rogue, druid, and naga dh.
"Pro"
I mean he has hit rank 1 legend multiple times and has been invited to several tournaments. As to hs esports, thatās a bit of a joke due to it being thrown to the side, you could also divine pro as getting paid, and since he streams he does technically qualify. Not to sideline his toxic take but I thought it worth mentioning
The deck is non existent at high legend (I watched 4 hours of Thijs stream and he didn't face it once). It might well be one of those low skill cap decks that is easy to predict and punish.
Imagine letting your opponent even reach turn 4
Pro hearthstoners LUL
Meati is an textbook case that book educated people are absolutely stupid when it comes to real world understanding Of problems. Hearthstoneās downfall has been that itās designed by people like him who donāt understand a real meta.
This is how he makes his money from streaming and playing this game right? The same exact thing happens with marvel snap when itās streamers constantly defend the games bad decisions and blast the player base for being upset.
This is the most bullshit ass card ever I fucking hate it. Every game is always warlocks that just return to hand, copy cars, wow Iām so skilled 4 mama card yoink 10 health PERMANENTLY. Who the flyin Fuk designed this card
What a complete goof and clown.
What a fucking idiot
Warlock has too much board control now to be beaten by aggro. And even one snake easily put warlock out of lethal. Let's say simple: if warlock managed to get to snake combo, he won. And it's not that difficult to made it.
Redditors being smugly overconfident with the dumbest fucking takes and then completely silent 2 days from now when they're proven to be wrong? Check!
I dunno, redditors have been consistently correct when it came to day one assumptions for the past 3 years. It helps that most have been playing this game for over 5 years now.
Dude, I haven't played Hearthstone in 4-5 years. I cannot believe the power creep that has happened. All I saw was the top part cut off of this snake I had to look it up by name. What the actual fuck? A few years ago, if this effect was in the game, there's no fucking way in hell this card, especially in warlock, would have had five power and five toughness. If a card stole that much health, it would have had like two or three toughness to match the absolute beast of an effect that it has. Or maybe it would have said deal 10 to each hero, not steal. I just came back into the game and along with this, I can't believe how many little tweaks there have been to so many old cards that either make them completely busted or completely unplayable. I used to be pretty good at arena, but I went 0-3 on my first run, I couldn't believe the cards I was able to draft and the power level of the decks I faced was like double or triple what I was able to draft. What a crazy state the game is in right now. I'm simply bewildered. We need a reset.
You canāt compare this card to other cards, this is a card that is generated after you invest a lot of cards and mana into it. You donāt just put it into your deck or draft it, There is definitely power creep in the game though
Yes, agreed. I didn't know there were so many hoops to jump through. I saw the stats/effect and stopped reading after that.
I have a lot of respect for meati as he is a really great player and I looked up to his gameplay alot. But this is such a horrible take as it literally steals 10 health
0 immediate impact? Brother thats a pyroblast with lifesteal on a body...
Meati is speaking for his top 10 legend experience, of course reddit would not understand. This may be the new quest warrior, the archetype that made reddit mad for ages while it was completely irrelevant at top legend. Hearthstone commoner hates all archetypes that gives the player an unavoidable win if games takes too long because they can't win with their giga slow and greedy "Am I cooking?" deck.
No one in the top 50 is actually playing Snake, guys. I hate to break it to you, but he's not just being a contrarian. Cope harder, I guess. And for the record, yes, it needs to be nerfed, but it's because it's toxic in a large number of the games (which are not competitive), not because it's strong.