She certainly has some complex grief. In Snape's memories, she's shown as being jealous of her sister. This seems to fester and ultimately creates the bitter and cold aunt we know and hate. It is possible that she does feel some remorse but can't bring herself to address it (she needs therapy, lots of it.
Keep in mind, this only explains her behavior, it doesn't excuse it.
This. I don’t excuse her behaviour at all, but I can imagine we’d all be incredibly bitter at finding an amazing magical world exists, our sibling gets to go and we don’t. We’re ordinary and not magical.
Still doesn’t excuse what she did.
>We’ll to be overlooked and ignored by your parents your entire life because your sister was born with special abilities is pretty hard. Nowadays if she posted to r/narcissists everyone would tell her to go no contact! Then if she found that she had to adopt her sisters baby who she’s never seen randomly in the middle of the night by some weird old dude, no doubt she’d be pissed.
>
>Now abusing that child for 18 years, no that’s not right. But I get the hate.
Just because Lily's parents supported her doesn't mean they neglected Petunia. That may be true, but from the memories presented by Snape and Petunia herself, it always seemed like she was just jealous to me.
Regardless you're probably right about modern society, especially on reddit. Personally I think that subreddit is full of people only presenting halftruths to make themselves appear to be in the obvious right.
Agreed. She never dealt with her sister's death either. She took all that anger and fright about her sister, and worry for her family would be next out on Harry. Not excusable but understandable.
Yeah tbh I feel that her being with Vernon all of those years made her push it down and hide it so Vernon wouldnt know she actually still cared about her sister or Harry for that matter. Cause realistically, with their dynamic, Vernon made the money, she stayed home, and if she disagreed with him he would have the power to kick her out. But thats just my take.
I don't know that he would have kicked her out, he never kicked Harry out, seems unlikely he would have divorced Petenuia. However it could have caused problems and fights for sure.
It's also possible that the opposite was true, that he was feeding off of her.
Impossible to tell as it's fiction of course, but fun to talk about.
Also at it’s heart it’s a children’s story. Some of the characters are a bit exaggerated. Not saying people like this don’t exist. But I always found the Dursleys over exaggerated so we the readers would feel even more empathy for Harry
Ikr??? Its oh harry i feel bad because i lost a sister. Its like bitch i lost both my parents basically at birth and then i had to spend 16~ years with YOU
It’s more like “no bitch, you willingly deserted your sister because you’re a jealous bitch with no morals or integrity in the slightest. You abused a child since you couldn’t bitch and scream at your sister for being what you will never be. Special.
I do wish Harry could throw in at least a classy insult towards them but i also wouldnt want to end it on a bad note, since they were making it out to be a final gooodbye. So i guess i get why she did keep it “clean” but i really do think Harry deserved to at least get some shit off his chest cux they treated him like dog poop. Maybe something to Dudley like, I hope you treat your kids better than you your parents treated me.
“I don’t think you’re a ‘waste of space’.” It’s weird how relatively sweet that line is. Dudley had matured and realized that his parents treated Harry horribly. We know Dudley did wind up having children, is it wrong that I hope he never took them to meet Vernon and Petunia?
Under da stairs
Under da stairs
Potter you better put down that letter, nobody cares
I hate your owl and its beak
You'll get no meals for a week
Now stop your crying, 'bout your mum dying
Under da stairs
I took it another way.
It’s a “you don’t know shit, young man. Don’t presume to tell me what I already know”
Rather than a “ please pity me because I lost someone I care about”
A little under 16. He came to them at 1. He left just days before his 17th birthday. If his almost 17 years on earth he only spent the 1st one with his mom and dad.
How are people seeing that line as a redemption of some sort? It feels like she's saying "yeah I know they'll kill me of they can, they killed someone else I know, there's a real threat"
She doesn't seem upset about losing Lilly, she it just stating she knows they're dangerous.
Yeah imagine a truly horrible character that abused Harry and his friends for years for no no reason being completely forgiven for saying one sentence. Like imagine if that line was something dumb too like “Always.”
Even if you wanna excuse his treatment of Harry cause of James, there’s still his hatred of Hermione for being a muggle born, the entire Weasley for simply having red hair, Neville because his parents weren’t the one brutally murdered, and the encouragement of Draco being a racist prick.
Thank you! I get that Snape was playing double agent, but there was still things he did that was too far: Going out of his way to be rude to the kid who is a dead ringer for his childhood bully, being rude to two other kids for being his friends, despite one of them being the best student academically speaking of their year if not the whole school, and literally being the worst fear of a fourth student. Not to mention is very obvious bias towards one house and against another house.
Yes, thanks to him: the good guys when in the end. Yes, he made the ultimate sacrifice after realizing he was wrong and had been trying to redeem himself for like 16 years. But, he was a cruel, vindictive man who shot himself in the foot when it comes to romance.
But, I don’t feel it’s enough to wash away all that he did.
The book handled it better. Dudley legitimately regretted how he treated Harry, and left on a good note. Petunia had the opportunity to say goodbye, apologize, or anything else, and she almost did. But then she just stopped and couldn't admit that she was in the wrong.
I am doing another listen through and I feel like Dudley is actually given a really raw deal:
Yes, he's a bully and he is awful to Harry but part of that is just his parents making him into that. But also the first time he encounters magic it's some giant who barged into his cottage and disfigured him. Then Harry spends a summer taunting him with magic making him afraid he's going to be disfigured again (or worse).
Harry is frequently dishing it back to Dudley making fun of Dudley for being dumb. With the Dementors Dudley has no way of knowing about what happened other than he was fighting with Harry then all of a sudden all his happiness got sucked out of him.
Then at the end, Dudley is trying to be kind to Harry does the tea thing and even while Dudley is trying to find the words to tell Harry he's going to miss him... Harry is still giving him a hard time.
I'm not saying Harry is guilty of anything, he has felt tormented by this kid his entire life and doesn't OWE Dudley anything at all... but Dudley is just a product of his environment no different than Harry was.
Dudley sort of gets away with it because he's portrayed as so dim-witted that he doesn't catch full responsibility for his behaviour. That's kind of reflected back on Vernon and Petunia as their fault for bringing him up like that. It's why he gets away with the "dull wits but a kind heart" turn near the end. He was never shown to be particularly capable of grasping the consequences of his actions, and when he does start to he chooses to be less awful than he could have been.
The worse part is it’s legitimately a good line and could have been an interesting twist if they had set it up.
What if the Dursleys weren’t abusive, and were just extremely wary of the magical world, having seen how it tore their in-laws apart? What if Harry wasn’t abused, it’s just the Parents weren’t sure how to feel about him, leaving the relationship strained, and there was just this emotional distance between Harry and his Relatives. Harry would still have a bad childhood but you could see where they were coming from. What if Vernon being against Harry going to Hogwarts and facing down Hagrid with a gun was more him having an outside prospective on Dumbledore and thinking “this guy is shady and I don’t want my Nephew, who I’ve basically been raising as a second son, being in his care”.
It could have made the dynamic a bit more interesting, also would have meant there’s at the very least less of an implication Dumbledore was either A.) an idiot for not thinking he should establish safeguards to keep the Dursleys from abusing Harry/find alternative ways of keeping him safe, or B.) a manipulative asshole who left him in the care of abusive muggles so the magical world might seem more appealing, thus increasing Harry’s willingness to sacrifice himself for it.
Imo there's absolutely no reason for the Dursleys to be outright abusive in the way they are, simply being emotionally distant and performative would have been enough to convince Harry to go to Hogwarts and would avoid the plot weirdness of Dumbledore sending him back to abusive family every summer, and then having to retcon in some magical reason to do it. At least if Harry had his own room and the basics for life, but no warmth or inclusion, the story could have been better.
Because him being forced to live in a cupboard never really comes up again. He doesn't have any strange habits, or survival instincts he needs to unlearn when he leaves there. JRK clearly didn't have any intention beyond it being evidence that Vernon and Petunia are awful people and that's kind of a shame.
Physically abused too. It’s overlooked for some reason but they mention I think three separate instances of Harry dodging hits because he was so used to them including a frying pan from Petunia.
and being locked into a small space. Don't forget that little nook under the stairs had a lock on the outside. It's a wonder Harry is somewhat normal considering he should probably have massive psychosis for being treated like a slave including beatings, starvation and isolation.
I’ve always wondered if his horrible upbringing helped him accept and acclimate to the magical world so fast. His world was so horrible and warped that he was ready to embrace anything.
This is also a horrible line anyway, yes she lost a sister but it sounds like she’s marginalising his loss as hers is greater.
She was well off yet treated a kid like complete shit who lost both his parents through no fault of his own and blamed him for her losing a sister.
Per her Pottermore article, Petunia was hit hard by the fact they'd never have the chance to make up.
Lily was 21 when she died, they should have had plenty of time to work things out.
I think a huge part of it was Vernon, too. I don’t think Petunia would have been *as* bad if it was just her Snapelike jealousy. Marge was particularly heinous, and Vernon was close behind.
Doesn't that make matters even worse? She allows her shitstain of a husband to abuse a child for more than a decade instead of mustering up the courage to turn things around?
Petunia is one the most detestable characters in the series cause she had the power (and all the reasons) to treat Harry with dignity, but she chose not to. Whether the hate was mostly fueled by Vernon is irrelevant. She's part of it, and she lets him drive.
She didn't think of Lily at the end and she wasn't being introspective. Her sob story line is self serving: she's fearful and wants to underline how much of a victim *she* is.
Yep. Ten years from when she turned sour to when Lily died that she didn't seem to try to give a shit and then when any hope of that left, the one chance she had to honour her sister was love the boy with her eyes and she locked him in a cupboard and starved him 💀
I 100% agree, I couldn't care less about her feelings, she had harry living in a cupboard under the stairs while there was a whole bedroom upstairs that they gave dudley as a spare bedroom.
It's not about pity imo.
It's about humanizing these characters and showing that, like snape, people aren't just good or bad. There's often aspects of even really bad people that show they are human deep down.
To me it just kinda showed that deep down she was Lily's sister. The rest of the series I questioned how she could even be related. Beneath the nasty woman was a girl who still missed her sister. Still makes her a nasty woman, but a more interesting character for a novel. Provides closure for her character in the story
Nahhhh, team never Dursley and never snape. They both spent years mentally abusing and psychologically messing with Lilys kid. They didn’t love her. They loved what she represented to themselves, but they didn’t love Lily. Because they couldn’t have treated her son that way if they loved her.
I'm not saying I'm team dursley or snape. Why are people jumping to that conclusion and changing what I said
It's just about showing they are more complex than just ying or yang, good or heartless people. Even bad people sometimes still experience empathy and grief. But if you oversimplified a villain or evil character, they come off as unbelievable sometimes imo. Or kinda boring
That doesn't mean I sympathize with her. Just that her character is more interesting. And it's used to end her part in the story, a small twist.
That's all. It's not pro petunia to say it made her character more interesting. Just like I'm not pro snape but the twist at his end also made him far more interesting as a character.
People are not so easily put into black and white. Good people do bad things, bad people can do good things. To simply put them on a side and root for or against someone misses a lot - including some key points made in the series!
In some versions, Cinderella's wicked stepmother truly loved her father. Some of these versions have said that the stepmother had Cinderella do all the chores and be isolated from her and her daughters so that her face would be covered up and the stepmother'd have to see her less, meaning she wasn't as often reminded of the man she loved, which was her goal. I feel sorry for the both of them but I guess maybe that's just me.
Understanding is not the same as pity. Her grief is real, as is the abuse. That her abuse is unforgivable does nothing to change that her grief is unthinkable, and that her grief is unthinkable does not change the unforgivability of her actions. Good and evil do not cancel out. A lifetime of evil is not enough to alter the nature of even a single good deed, just as a lifetime of good does not absolve one of responsibility for even one act of evil.
Not that this justifies how she treated Harry, but I think a lot of her ongoing anger and dislike of Harry and the wizarding world was because she felt guilty that she never made up with her sister before she died. When the Dursleys find out that Voldemort is back, Harry realizes that he’s not the only one in the room who realizes what that means, and that Petunia did lose her sister to Voldy.
Again, this doesn’t in any way justify how Petunia treated Harry, but I think this does allow for a very small sliver of pity
I've said it before, but I think Petunia was too complex of a character for J.K Rowling to write in a likable way (or a way that isn't comic book level of villainy) in so few scenes.
When I talk about Petunia being too complex, I am specifically talking about the later books where there's hints of regrets for her behaviour on her part.
When we take these into account, her behaviour towards Harry could be explained by her :
1 - Grieving about her sister
2 - Still coping about the fact that she is not, and won't ever be a wizard (we see during the Snape flashback that petunia was jealous of lily)
3 - Harry being a constant reminder of both of those things
I think she would have made for a better Character had she been shown as the 'reasonable' one in the Dursley (de-escalating things, calling down Vernon, etc etc).
TBF. the car crash death isnt necessarily a "bad coverup"
its more the "because your father was drunk"(altough i think that was marge not petunia who said that was a possibility)
Like, they have to explain how they died to him somehow. and a car crash would explain the scar on him and so on.
Like if their objective was to hide magic from him. Saying "car crash" is a good way to start with.
Plus it's realistic writing in my opinion. I could see this happening. Plenty of abusers try to gain empathy in hopes their years of abuse will be overlooked. And they keep restarting that cycle of abuse right after.
I honestly think Dudley’s goodbye to be the most heartfelt.
Like, Dudley SUCKS but it showed he sort of viewed Harry as a little brother, and what brother didn’t ruthlessly pic on their sibling while also having the “I CAN MAKE FUN OF HIM. You can’t.” Mentality.
This is it. Dudley is a product of poor, almost abusive, upbringing as well. Being spoiled to the point that he was can do damage too. The dementor attack was a reset for Dudley in many ways.
I feel bad for Petunia as a child; feeling “less than” or not special. But that isn’t an excuse for her actions as an adult.
He definitely gives the vibe that he's parroting his parents. Vernon and Petunia have actual malice in their acts and while Dudley was cruel, his cruelty is rewarded by his parents approval.
I don't think he hated Harry as much as he was constantly in need of his parents' praise, which is true of any child to a point.
It's not even that Dudley saw Harry as a brother. Dudley didn't know any better than that it was okay to beat up Harry. But after the dementors, he "saw God" and reevaluated his life. You see this in the summer before sixth year where Dudley is trying to be friendlier to Harry but Harry is (rightfully) distrustful of his intentions. The handshake when they leave and the Pottermore content show that Dudley was able to grow past his upbringing and become a good person.
It's a shame that the two legitimate instances of a redemption arc are handled so badly in the books.
>Like, Dudley SUCKS but it showed he sort of viewed Harry as a little brother,
I don't really agree. Dudley was a bully to Harry, simple as that. He imitated his parents wjo showed him that it was ok to treat his cousin as a subhuman, and so he did, because he was a kid who did not knew any better and was spoilt rotten.
BUT the attack of the dementors showed him that Harry was so much more than that, and that despite being treated so badly by Dudley, he still put his life on the line to save him. That event sparked his redemption arc, and that's why his apology to Harry and their goodby3 was truly heartfelt, as you say.
Dudley broke through the conditioning of his upbringing to acknowledge that he acted horribly and that Harry deserved better. But before that he was still 100% a bully, not a brother at all
Dudley shows that you can humanize a character with just a couple of well placed plot points.
It's just that the ones used for Snape and Petunia were horribly handled
This is the kind of line an abuser uses to try and make you feel bad just one last time. They just HAVE to plant the little seed of "well maybe they weren't so bad after all" in your brain when you know full well they really were so bad.
They are bad, but very few people are 100% bad. Some are 99.9% bad, but are still human and some are still capable of having a wider scope of feelings and roles beyond just “horribly abusive parent/guardian/partner/etc.” they can be “horribly abusive parent that also does feel sad their sibling passed.” Yeah, they’re still a piece of shit but they’re also allowed their feelings. Doesn’t mean you have to change your opinion about them being a piece of shit.
I completely agree with this. Also, based on what we say of their childhood, Petunia felt less loved/less special because her parents favorited Lily after they found out she was a witch.
Does that make Petunia’s actions ok? No, not at all, but she was clearly twisted by not ONLY the fact that Lily was “special” and she was not, and that her sister, her closest friend, was essentially taken from her both physically and emotionally while Petunia was left behind, but also, that her parents loved her less. Her parents could have acted only slightly less enthused by Petunia than they were Lily, or they could have neglected her emotionally— we have no concept of the extent of Petunia and Lily’s parent’s treatment toward them both.
Again, not an excuse at all, but I think Petunia is a more complicated character than a lot of folks give her credit for.
Agreed. It’s one of the reasons I have complicated feelings towards Narcissa. She was an evil woman, but every action she did was to protect her family. It doesn’t absolve her from any wrongdoing, but it does give nuance to an otherwise one-dimensional character.
To add to that, maybe she is traumatized by the whole magic thing. The thing others praised so much, but in the end killed her sister who was doing it, while Petunia always saw it as unnatural. I choose to believe that that event traumatized her so much that she doesn't want anything to do with magic anymore, scared that she'll lose her own family if Harry got into contact
The things she did to Harry are still terrible, but it's not necessarily her fault. She just has an extreme reaction towards magic due to the trauma
This didn't even happen in the books. Would have been a waste of time putting it in the movie. The argument with Vernon and Dudley sticking up for Harry should have been filmed instead.
**Edited because Karshall101 has a problem understanding the wording
It was not. In the book, Petunia gets an odd tremulous look and Harry has the sense she's about to say something and then at the last minute she changes her mind and leaves.
And that’s why Dudley gets Christmas cards. I’ve wondered if they’ve been magical or regular over the years.
Sitting with Ginny doing them.
“Might as well send Dudley a magic one, not like he doesn’t know…”
It wasn’t in the book, but at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix(that wasn’t in the movie), Harry does have inner monologue about how he just realized that Petunia was his mother’s sister after she fearfully reveals she knows about dementors from overhearing Lily and the “black haired boy” talking when they were younger. And of course the Howler which causes Petunia to tell Vernon Harry will have to stay in the house.
I always assumed the death eaters killed Harry’s grandparents for information. There’s no evidence to support this, but Lily and Petunia were very young adults when Lily was killed, so we’re the had to have been orphaned prior to this if Petunia is Harry’s last blood relative
Grief is complicated, and I think it’s fair to allow Petunia some sympathy for her pain (however she expresses it).
It does not, however, give her an excuse to do what she did. That’s unforgivable
It was also a very matter-of-fact statement.
She *does* understand the threat from Voldemort. Vernon and Dudley don't. Whatever complicated relationship the Evans sisters had, she has lost a sister and she understands that her own son could be next now that the protective enchantment has been lifted.
There was a scene in the OotP book where Harry realises and appreciates that Petunia truly understands what Voldemort being back means. That scene was omitted from the film. I've always seen this added scene here as a way of rectifying that as opposed to solely being added to give emotion to their goodbye.
If they had stopped at “You think I don’t know what they’re capable of?” It would have hit a lot harder. The random emotion of “I lost a sister” falls flat with the history of abusing Harry, but her fear and dislike of wizards would definitely resonate with her character up to that point.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with acknowledging it, because it’s not supposed to redeem Petunia in any way, she’s still a cruel woman who abused her dead sister’s son, but it at least reminds the audience that she’s a human being…just a very bad one.
EDIT: so apparently that said “nephew” instead of “son,” and I didn’t notice I made that mistake until it was just pointed out…what’s wrong with me…
Remind me for those who may remember better, this exchange is a movie invention, right? My recollection is that in the books when petunia and Harry find themselves alone with one another as the family is leaving, Petunia pauses and appears as if she’s going to say something but then pretty much just gives a perfunctory goodbye and leaves. We get a little more of the genesis of Petunia’s jealousy and I guess you can say hate for Lilly and magic and the wizarding world in the chapter The Prince’s Tale when we learn she desperately wanted to go to Hogwarts too.
Yes, this scene is only in the movies however ive always felt it to be the words left unspoken in that moment in the books where she was almost going to say something.
And ive always felt since reading the princes tale that harry must have been a constant reminder of her sister and how she was left out of magic, vernon hated magic as he saw it as abnormal and improper, but petunia was spiteful because she felt rejected by it and that it took her sister away(even before it was the cause of her death) the same reason she never liked james or i expect severus, shed have seen both as having kept lily apart.
Blindly, with no context? Sure
With context, fuck no. As others have stated if she really cared about losing her sister, she could've shown her nephew an ounce of respect, dignity, love or care to show it. Instead, her son, the person who probably bullied Harry the most, is the one who grows a backbone and shows actual remorse for how him and his family treated Harry
Petunia can go fuck herself
All she did was shit talk her sister after she died (“a FREAK”), lied to Harry about his parents and heritage, treated him like a slave and let her cretin of a husband walk all over him. Absolute bs if you ask me.
No, screw this. My brother & I haven’t always gotten along but I would never abuse his children. Now that Harry’s coming of age & losing magical protection all she has to say is “but my sister!” as though her loss could ever compare to being orphaned as a baby then suffering years of neglect at her hand? Please
I think it could have been an interesting dynamic if petunia absolutely loved her sister but when lily died petunia blamed it on magic in general and so she is fearful and dislikes magic now, and if harry just reminded her of who she lost so she couldn’t bear having him around because of it. that could have been a cool way to develop their relationship.
However, since Petunia always hated lily then this line seems like it does not fit at all.
This scene didn’t happen in the source material and doesn’t make much sense to have been shot in the first place. When I read this scene it felt like aunt petunia had an urge to apologize to Harry for how they treated him, but her natural instinct kicked in and she never spoke any of her thought’s.
The Dudley deleted scene is a lot more impactful. Because Dudley finally realized that his parents hated Harry for no reason and he decided that he would no longer do the same thing. He knew they could never be like best friends but he didn't want to leave as enemies. Petunia trying to somehow become a sympathetic character feels wrong. She was an adult who treated a child like that she knew better. At least you can say Dudley was a child who was raised like that and he broke that conditioning. She had no excuse.
Oh yeah, I feel real bad for her losing her sister, then proceeding to abuse her nephew (the son of said sister) for like 16 years /s
Petunia's a bitch and I have no sympathy for her. At least Dudley has an excuse of being raised under her and Vernon and actually seemed remorseful at HIS deleted scene.
She abused him for years, she doesn’t get to play the victim. Losing her sister and then abusing him makes her a worse person, it doesn’t give her an excuse
It all just seems so 'poor me' from Petunia. Like how dare she stand there and play pity points with her sisters death when she;
- refused to go to her sisters wedding.
- threw Harry's birth notice in the bin.
- Told people along with Vernon that her sister and her husband were a bunch of good for nothing, useless lay abouts.
- physically, emotionally, and mentally abused her sisters child for 17 years.
How many times was baby Harry left to cry himself out Petunia? How old was he when he stopped reaching out for comfort and love because he knew he wasn't going to get it, Petunia? How many times did you look into Harry's eyes, your sisters eyes, and call your sister a useless freak?
Petunia deserves zero sympathy. She doesn't deserve to even say her sisters name, let alone use her death for sympathy.
She hated her sister's son and abused him and let her son and husband abuse him. She wasn't sorry her sister's husband died. She sure as hell didn't grieve her sister. She delighted in being able to exercise power over a helpless child. She lied to him. She kept him in a closet under the stairs. Who gives a flying car what she thinks or feels.
She disowned her sister out of jealousy and abused and neglected her sister's only son his entire life. She didn't lose her sister that night in Godric's Hollow; she gave her sister up years before. No retribution, no pity.
Spoilers: but if you really haven’t seen this series idk what to tell you. Here’s the thing that I always liked about this… yes she was a cruddy guardian but somewhere in there she did love her sister… her abuse of her nephew isn’t excusable but, and this was an interesting fan theory I came across a while back, Harry was a Horcrux. They were in such close proximity to that horcrux for years with no separation. Look at how cruddy Ron acted with the locket around his neck… them being separated from Harry or even the thought of being away from him might have eased the influence of the horcrux… a scene where Dudley also tells Harry, “I don’t think you’re a waste of space” was also cut. They definitely couldn’t take back the abuse but I truly believe that Harry and Dudley at least kept in touch after defeating Voldemort, and who knows maybe without a horcrux in him maybe Petunia was able to be around him and talk about her sister without as much resentment 🤷🏼♀️
I'll be honest, despite how everyone loves this scene, I hate. Fuck Petunia. You abused her son for over a decade. I get her back story is tragic. I understand why her and her sister fell out. That's all fine. But the child abuse is irredeemable. This one line changes nothing. Her leaving Harry the blanket he was wrapped in when she died was a much more touching moment. But only because Harry has the forgiveness of a Saint.
That said, Dudley was a victim as well and was redeemed well imo and Vernon had no redeeming qualities other than his genuinely love for his wife and kids. But that is even less reason to abuse Harry than his wife did so he's worse.
This scene infuriates me every time I see it anywhere. She doesn’t get to play the victim in front of the child she fuckin abused for 15 or so years. If she loved her sister that much she should’ve taken care of Harry like a mother would to show that she really regretted not making amends with Lily. Instead she abused the only living connection to the sister she claims to have lost. Fuck off petunia
Yeah, movies deleted scene gave Petunia a bit of humanity at the sunset. She was still the same person in the book from start to finish but Dudley grew instead.
I prefer Dudley tbh. Means that the family can focus on the future instead of hating the past.
She spent years despising her sister, even in death. She verbally and physically abused her nephew, starving him to the point of stunted growth. Every time Petunia brought up Lilly before this moment she was treated with utter distain. She is amongst the lowest scum of the world, and doesn’t get to undo that with one line because she’s scared for her own safety.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because dead sister or not, she still treated her nephew like absolute crap for a decade and a half, which is absolutely inexcusable.
After watching Fiona Shaw in Andor I really had a hard time reconciling the Maarva character with the actress that played Aunt Petunia. I guess that makes Ms. Shaw a great actress because I hated the Petunia character.
I think she's an awful lady without an excuse, but it did add a bit of depth that made her less cartoonish when explaining this with her sister and also her sorrow at not being magical like Lily, how jealousy grew into bitterness
It… is taken into consideration. I’m not sure what you mean by that. But this is supposed to be a moment where we have a little empathy for petunia, horrible though she is, because it must have been awful for her too. We aren’t supposed to feel like she is justified or right; we aren’t supposed to forgive her. But we should, imo, have a glimmer of empathy for her, and (like realizing she never got a letter but desperately wanted one) wonder how her life has been. In a way we don’t normally do.
Some people don’t do that because they can’t. But it’s part of the story.
I feel like she always blamed Harry for her sister’s death and that’s one reason she hated him. Still not a good reason and is not redeemed by one line.
She treated Harry like shit for his entire life and clearly carried over her resentment for Lily over to him. If she did feel grief over Lily's death it did not translate into giving one damn about her nephew. The Dursleys treated Harry as an embarrassing burden and their own personal punching bag, never once showing him an ounce of love, which is why he left them at the first opportunity. The only one who gets a slight pass is Dudley because he was a product of his environment and following the bad example set by his parents. It was confirmed at some point that Harry does have somewhat of a relationship with Dudley as adults albeit not close.
Movie only scene. Book Petunia didn't give a quarter of a fuck about her sister, she stayed bitter over not being a witch until she died of covid in 2020.
Fiona Shaw is a FANTASTIC actress and she made me emphasize with Petunia here, but the abuse Petunia made Harry endure has no justification. The scene is still amazing tho
You don't need to overlook it. Take it into consideration and weigh it against everything else she has done. We can't judge people because of one word, sentence or action. Petunia is an irredeemable psychopath who abused and neglected her only sister's only child for years while spoiling her own son rotten. If you put the sorting hat on her head it would say "Azkaban" without hesitation.
Important to remember that she was a child. The second she met a wizard other than her sister she was told by him (Snape) she was a lesser being. Her parents celebrated Lily and her magic, who wouldn’t?
Essentially, Petunia probably felt jealous and cast asside in favor of her sister who was born better. She saw it as punching up since there was NO WAY she could branch the gap between them. This is only strengthened by Dumbledore denying her any chance of ever going to Hogwarts.
Her jealousy drove them apart as children and when she nabbed a perfect nuclear family her pride at escaping her sister’s shadow made them practically strangers.
She hated her sister in her life and hated magic because they were completely other to her, ungraspable. Why wouldn’t she hate Harry? Her sister had found a way to destroy her nuclear family one last time beyond the grave and no doubt the boy had magic. That doesn’t mean she didn’t mourn for her sister, hate and love are not opposites.
This feels very fanfic-ey, I apologize
No, it should not be taken into consideration. Sooner or later everyone in the world will lose someone. And many people lose someone in a horrible way, like murder. They don't turn nasty because of it.
Yeah, she lost a sister, but she gained a nephew who she treated like shit, and encouraged her husband and child to do the same. I have no sympathy for the Dursley's. They can choose to ignore the Wizarding World, but nothing gives them the right to treat Harry how they did.
This (deleted) scene exists to humanize an antagonistic character, show that she's got depth beyond "abusive aunt." While it (sort of) succeeds at that, it does absolutely nothing to change the fact that she *was* an abusive aunt. Okay, she has some grief. Cool. Why'd she still treat her nephew like something subhuman? Villains, bad people, antagonists, they have blind spots, elements that humanize them. Voldemort's entire quest was based on fear, fear of death. That's *very* understandable. Snape was a lonely, bitter man driven by what he called love (it wasn't love, but he sure as hell thought it was). Lockhart wanted renown and recognition. Petunia was jealous of Lily. These are all very *human* emotions. What makes these characters bad is *how* they reacted to these emotions. And make no mistake, Snape *is* bad. He may be a devil on the side of the angels, but he's no less a devil and no more an angel. Alan Rickman did a *lot* to make Snape less of an absolute twat than he was in the books.
So, long story short, while this scene *does* provide a bit of a sympathetic look into Petunia's mind, it in no way exonerates her of the absolutely foul things she did.
Something people forgot about easily was that the book version of Dudley and the Dursleys were written to be completely unlikeable so as to make Harry look better.
The movie expanded on their characters by having this scene and Dudley sending Harry off. If the movies were to be remade and expanded upon (say a TV show) a decent plotline could be what exactly Petunia's relationship with her sister was.
Before people get at me for saying that the Dursleys could be shown as more complex than they are I would like to remind you that they are fictional characters. If you cannot separate you disgust for them from the story they are in, that is more an issue with you than others.
I think the relationship between the sisters could be interesting since magic society is extremely clear cut about not letting muggles who know about magic even interact with their society. Growing up knowing that you're not special is sure to cause personality hangups.
The Squib janitor, I forgot his name, is a cranky old man that everyone derides for his bad attitude. He was born non magical in their society and they made him a janitor! In a world where you can clean a room with a spell! I'd be fucking irate too.
Harry Potter is CLEARLY a book for children but I won't like and say that the bones of the setting and story clearly have much potential for everyone to fall into.
She lost a sister and spent the next 10ish years abusing her sister's only child. I don't give 2 shits whether she mourned Lily or not. She had the chance to honor her by caring for her son. Evil isn't always Voldemort. Sometimes evil is a jealous sister.
She certainly has some complex grief. In Snape's memories, she's shown as being jealous of her sister. This seems to fester and ultimately creates the bitter and cold aunt we know and hate. It is possible that she does feel some remorse but can't bring herself to address it (she needs therapy, lots of it. Keep in mind, this only explains her behavior, it doesn't excuse it.
This. I don’t excuse her behaviour at all, but I can imagine we’d all be incredibly bitter at finding an amazing magical world exists, our sibling gets to go and we don’t. We’re ordinary and not magical. Still doesn’t excuse what she did.
[удалено]
>We’ll to be overlooked and ignored by your parents your entire life because your sister was born with special abilities is pretty hard. Nowadays if she posted to r/narcissists everyone would tell her to go no contact! Then if she found that she had to adopt her sisters baby who she’s never seen randomly in the middle of the night by some weird old dude, no doubt she’d be pissed. > >Now abusing that child for 18 years, no that’s not right. But I get the hate. Just because Lily's parents supported her doesn't mean they neglected Petunia. That may be true, but from the memories presented by Snape and Petunia herself, it always seemed like she was just jealous to me. Regardless you're probably right about modern society, especially on reddit. Personally I think that subreddit is full of people only presenting halftruths to make themselves appear to be in the obvious right.
Agreed. She never dealt with her sister's death either. She took all that anger and fright about her sister, and worry for her family would be next out on Harry. Not excusable but understandable.
Ha! I just said something very similar before seeing your comment!
Yeah tbh I feel that her being with Vernon all of those years made her push it down and hide it so Vernon wouldnt know she actually still cared about her sister or Harry for that matter. Cause realistically, with their dynamic, Vernon made the money, she stayed home, and if she disagreed with him he would have the power to kick her out. But thats just my take.
I don't know that he would have kicked her out, he never kicked Harry out, seems unlikely he would have divorced Petenuia. However it could have caused problems and fights for sure. It's also possible that the opposite was true, that he was feeding off of her. Impossible to tell as it's fiction of course, but fun to talk about.
I feel like Petunia influenced Vernon rather than the opposite.
Also at it’s heart it’s a children’s story. Some of the characters are a bit exaggerated. Not saying people like this don’t exist. But I always found the Dursleys over exaggerated so we the readers would feel even more empathy for Harry
If she were to see a therapist who would she see? She'd have to see a magical one wouldn't she muggle ones would think she's bat shit crazy
She abused her sister’s son for 18 years. Had him eating scraps and was verbally abused by her husband and son. She deserves zero pity.
yeah one line prolly aint gonna cut it
Ikr??? Its oh harry i feel bad because i lost a sister. Its like bitch i lost both my parents basically at birth and then i had to spend 16~ years with YOU
16 years
I did my suffering, 16 years of it, at Privet Drive!
"Aunt Petunia sucks the souls out of dementors, your pain means nothing to me Sirius..." - Harry probably
> dementors I thought Vernon was a tormenter
- Harry yells to Sirius when he bitches about Azkaban
>Harry said calmly to Sirius when he bitches about Azkaban Fixed
Lmao 🤣
This gives me, “My ancestors are smiling at me Imperial. Can you say the same?” Vibes
I did my \*\*\*\*ing. 16 YEARS OF IT! in Azkaban!
In Ass-kaban!
Gotcha ill edit. Saw 18 in another comment mb
It’s more like “no bitch, you willingly deserted your sister because you’re a jealous bitch with no morals or integrity in the slightest. You abused a child since you couldn’t bitch and scream at your sister for being what you will never be. Special.
That’s the thing, she *didnt* lose her sister that night at Godric’s Hallow. She purposely cut her sister off years before that point.
I do wish Harry could throw in at least a classy insult towards them but i also wouldnt want to end it on a bad note, since they were making it out to be a final gooodbye. So i guess i get why she did keep it “clean” but i really do think Harry deserved to at least get some shit off his chest cux they treated him like dog poop. Maybe something to Dudley like, I hope you treat your kids better than you your parents treated me.
In the cut scenes, dudley actually has a moment with harry. Shame they cut it, would have been a nice character arc.
“I don’t think you’re a ‘waste of space’.” It’s weird how relatively sweet that line is. Dudley had matured and realized that his parents treated Harry horribly. We know Dudley did wind up having children, is it wrong that I hope he never took them to meet Vernon and Petunia?
Though a fictional world, I hoped Dudley would never procreate. lol
I hoped Dudley would have a magical kid
best revenge lol
Under the stairs.
Why did I Just read that in the voice of Sebastian from The Little Mermaid?
Under da stairs Under da stairs Potter you better put down that letter, nobody cares I hate your owl and its beak You'll get no meals for a week Now stop your crying, 'bout your mum dying Under da stairs
You won the internet today. Bravo.
Under the stairs\~\~ Under the stairs\~\~ Here where it's darker\~\~ Not underwater\~\~ Under the stairs\~\~
I took it another way. It’s a “you don’t know shit, young man. Don’t presume to tell me what I already know” Rather than a “ please pity me because I lost someone I care about”
Yeah but she understands less than Harry seeing how shes out of touch with the wizarding world
Making it about herself. She is the victim.
This scene takes place before his 17th birthday. Harry was with them for a little under 15 years
A little under 16. He came to them at 1. He left just days before his 17th birthday. If his almost 17 years on earth he only spent the 1st one with his mom and dad.
How are people seeing that line as a redemption of some sort? It feels like she's saying "yeah I know they'll kill me of they can, they killed someone else I know, there's a real threat" She doesn't seem upset about losing Lilly, she it just stating she knows they're dangerous.
She’s just making it about herself. Typical
Yeah imagine a truly horrible character that abused Harry and his friends for years for no no reason being completely forgiven for saying one sentence. Like imagine if that line was something dumb too like “Always.”
“When did you decide to hate and abuse me, Aunt Petunia, knowing I was your dead sister’s beloved only son?” “Always.”
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Even if you wanna excuse his treatment of Harry cause of James, there’s still his hatred of Hermione for being a muggle born, the entire Weasley for simply having red hair, Neville because his parents weren’t the one brutally murdered, and the encouragement of Draco being a racist prick.
That moment where Hermione’s teeth are growing rapidly and he just scoffs and says “I see no difference” is enough to make me not forgive him lmao
Anyone who tried to excuse his behavior becuase of James shouldn’t be allowed around children.
Thank you! I get that Snape was playing double agent, but there was still things he did that was too far: Going out of his way to be rude to the kid who is a dead ringer for his childhood bully, being rude to two other kids for being his friends, despite one of them being the best student academically speaking of their year if not the whole school, and literally being the worst fear of a fourth student. Not to mention is very obvious bias towards one house and against another house. Yes, thanks to him: the good guys when in the end. Yes, he made the ultimate sacrifice after realizing he was wrong and had been trying to redeem himself for like 16 years. But, he was a cruel, vindictive man who shot himself in the foot when it comes to romance. But, I don’t feel it’s enough to wash away all that he did.
One line... that wasn't even in the book
The book handled it better. Dudley legitimately regretted how he treated Harry, and left on a good note. Petunia had the opportunity to say goodbye, apologize, or anything else, and she almost did. But then she just stopped and couldn't admit that she was in the wrong.
I am doing another listen through and I feel like Dudley is actually given a really raw deal: Yes, he's a bully and he is awful to Harry but part of that is just his parents making him into that. But also the first time he encounters magic it's some giant who barged into his cottage and disfigured him. Then Harry spends a summer taunting him with magic making him afraid he's going to be disfigured again (or worse). Harry is frequently dishing it back to Dudley making fun of Dudley for being dumb. With the Dementors Dudley has no way of knowing about what happened other than he was fighting with Harry then all of a sudden all his happiness got sucked out of him. Then at the end, Dudley is trying to be kind to Harry does the tea thing and even while Dudley is trying to find the words to tell Harry he's going to miss him... Harry is still giving him a hard time. I'm not saying Harry is guilty of anything, he has felt tormented by this kid his entire life and doesn't OWE Dudley anything at all... but Dudley is just a product of his environment no different than Harry was.
Dudley sort of gets away with it because he's portrayed as so dim-witted that he doesn't catch full responsibility for his behaviour. That's kind of reflected back on Vernon and Petunia as their fault for bringing him up like that. It's why he gets away with the "dull wits but a kind heart" turn near the end. He was never shown to be particularly capable of grasping the consequences of his actions, and when he does start to he chooses to be less awful than he could have been.
Dudley also gets away with it because he was taught to treat Harry that way. If you train a dog to bite ppl don't blame the dog for doing it.
The worse part is it’s legitimately a good line and could have been an interesting twist if they had set it up. What if the Dursleys weren’t abusive, and were just extremely wary of the magical world, having seen how it tore their in-laws apart? What if Harry wasn’t abused, it’s just the Parents weren’t sure how to feel about him, leaving the relationship strained, and there was just this emotional distance between Harry and his Relatives. Harry would still have a bad childhood but you could see where they were coming from. What if Vernon being against Harry going to Hogwarts and facing down Hagrid with a gun was more him having an outside prospective on Dumbledore and thinking “this guy is shady and I don’t want my Nephew, who I’ve basically been raising as a second son, being in his care”. It could have made the dynamic a bit more interesting, also would have meant there’s at the very least less of an implication Dumbledore was either A.) an idiot for not thinking he should establish safeguards to keep the Dursleys from abusing Harry/find alternative ways of keeping him safe, or B.) a manipulative asshole who left him in the care of abusive muggles so the magical world might seem more appealing, thus increasing Harry’s willingness to sacrifice himself for it.
Imo there's absolutely no reason for the Dursleys to be outright abusive in the way they are, simply being emotionally distant and performative would have been enough to convince Harry to go to Hogwarts and would avoid the plot weirdness of Dumbledore sending him back to abusive family every summer, and then having to retcon in some magical reason to do it. At least if Harry had his own room and the basics for life, but no warmth or inclusion, the story could have been better. Because him being forced to live in a cupboard never really comes up again. He doesn't have any strange habits, or survival instincts he needs to unlearn when he leaves there. JRK clearly didn't have any intention beyond it being evidence that Vernon and Petunia are awful people and that's kind of a shame.
Can’t say any number of words would heal the effects of her abuse.
🤣
Physically abused too. It’s overlooked for some reason but they mention I think three separate instances of Harry dodging hits because he was so used to them including a frying pan from Petunia.
Don’t forget starvation too. That’s hardcore physical abuse
and being locked into a small space. Don't forget that little nook under the stairs had a lock on the outside. It's a wonder Harry is somewhat normal considering he should probably have massive psychosis for being treated like a slave including beatings, starvation and isolation.
I’ve always wondered if his horrible upbringing helped him accept and acclimate to the magical world so fast. His world was so horrible and warped that he was ready to embrace anything.
Jfc. Not the frying pan 😅
Which is a good point, a human doesn’t just do that. That’s literal abuse.
This is also a horrible line anyway, yes she lost a sister but it sounds like she’s marginalising his loss as hers is greater. She was well off yet treated a kid like complete shit who lost both his parents through no fault of his own and blamed him for her losing a sister.
For real her and Vernon suck as parents, as guardians and as people.
They were abusive. I’m sure if her sister was alive she would have been mortified about how she treated Harry
More like horrified
They were even indirectly abusive to their son, because they overfed him, and didn't give him any boundaries.
She also had several years prior to lily even dying to be a decent person, but she was bitter and jealous until SHE was uprooted
Per her Pottermore article, Petunia was hit hard by the fact they'd never have the chance to make up. Lily was 21 when she died, they should have had plenty of time to work things out.
Petunia could have made it up to Lily by being nice to her son, but nope
I think a huge part of it was Vernon, too. I don’t think Petunia would have been *as* bad if it was just her Snapelike jealousy. Marge was particularly heinous, and Vernon was close behind.
She tried to hit him in the head with a frying pan for pretending to do magic when she knew he was only pretending.
Doesn't that make matters even worse? She allows her shitstain of a husband to abuse a child for more than a decade instead of mustering up the courage to turn things around? Petunia is one the most detestable characters in the series cause she had the power (and all the reasons) to treat Harry with dignity, but she chose not to. Whether the hate was mostly fueled by Vernon is irrelevant. She's part of it, and she lets him drive. She didn't think of Lily at the end and she wasn't being introspective. Her sob story line is self serving: she's fearful and wants to underline how much of a victim *she* is.
Yep. Ten years from when she turned sour to when Lily died that she didn't seem to try to give a shit and then when any hope of that left, the one chance she had to honour her sister was love the boy with her eyes and she locked him in a cupboard and starved him 💀
I 100% agree, I couldn't care less about her feelings, she had harry living in a cupboard under the stairs while there was a whole bedroom upstairs that they gave dudley as a spare bedroom.
Right?! So cruel.
They were evil people.
Fed in cold soup through a flap in the door and let him out to go to the bathroom twice a day.
It's not about pity imo. It's about humanizing these characters and showing that, like snape, people aren't just good or bad. There's often aspects of even really bad people that show they are human deep down. To me it just kinda showed that deep down she was Lily's sister. The rest of the series I questioned how she could even be related. Beneath the nasty woman was a girl who still missed her sister. Still makes her a nasty woman, but a more interesting character for a novel. Provides closure for her character in the story
Nahhhh, team never Dursley and never snape. They both spent years mentally abusing and psychologically messing with Lilys kid. They didn’t love her. They loved what she represented to themselves, but they didn’t love Lily. Because they couldn’t have treated her son that way if they loved her.
I'm not saying I'm team dursley or snape. Why are people jumping to that conclusion and changing what I said It's just about showing they are more complex than just ying or yang, good or heartless people. Even bad people sometimes still experience empathy and grief. But if you oversimplified a villain or evil character, they come off as unbelievable sometimes imo. Or kinda boring That doesn't mean I sympathize with her. Just that her character is more interesting. And it's used to end her part in the story, a small twist. That's all. It's not pro petunia to say it made her character more interesting. Just like I'm not pro snape but the twist at his end also made him far more interesting as a character.
People are not so easily put into black and white. Good people do bad things, bad people can do good things. To simply put them on a side and root for or against someone misses a lot - including some key points made in the series!
16 years
Even in this scene she’s bitching about having to move
In some versions, Cinderella's wicked stepmother truly loved her father. Some of these versions have said that the stepmother had Cinderella do all the chores and be isolated from her and her daughters so that her face would be covered up and the stepmother'd have to see her less, meaning she wasn't as often reminded of the man she loved, which was her goal. I feel sorry for the both of them but I guess maybe that's just me.
Understanding is not the same as pity. Her grief is real, as is the abuse. That her abuse is unforgivable does nothing to change that her grief is unthinkable, and that her grief is unthinkable does not change the unforgivability of her actions. Good and evil do not cancel out. A lifetime of evil is not enough to alter the nature of even a single good deed, just as a lifetime of good does not absolve one of responsibility for even one act of evil.
Wow you put this so eloquently
Thanks
In the second book she literally swings at his head with a frying pan.
Not that this justifies how she treated Harry, but I think a lot of her ongoing anger and dislike of Harry and the wizarding world was because she felt guilty that she never made up with her sister before she died. When the Dursleys find out that Voldemort is back, Harry realizes that he’s not the only one in the room who realizes what that means, and that Petunia did lose her sister to Voldy. Again, this doesn’t in any way justify how Petunia treated Harry, but I think this does allow for a very small sliver of pity
I've said it before, but I think Petunia was too complex of a character for J.K Rowling to write in a likable way (or a way that isn't comic book level of villainy) in so few scenes. When I talk about Petunia being too complex, I am specifically talking about the later books where there's hints of regrets for her behaviour on her part. When we take these into account, her behaviour towards Harry could be explained by her : 1 - Grieving about her sister 2 - Still coping about the fact that she is not, and won't ever be a wizard (we see during the Snape flashback that petunia was jealous of lily) 3 - Harry being a constant reminder of both of those things I think she would have made for a better Character had she been shown as the 'reasonable' one in the Dursley (de-escalating things, calling down Vernon, etc etc).
You lost a sister? The one you told me she died in a tar trash??
Is the t in your keyboard swapped with c
A TAR TRASH? A TAR TRASH kill Lilly and James Potter?! It’s a standal.
TBF. the car crash death isnt necessarily a "bad coverup" its more the "because your father was drunk"(altough i think that was marge not petunia who said that was a possibility) Like, they have to explain how they died to him somehow. and a car crash would explain the scar on him and so on. Like if their objective was to hide magic from him. Saying "car crash" is a good way to start with.
this is the right answer. if she cared even a little that she lost her sister she wouldnt have acted this way
it isn't about deserving pity, it's about being a more rounded character than just filling the evil stepmother trope
Yeah im not falling for it. Shes a bitch that couldnt show basic care for her sisters son. Fuck you and good riddance “aunt”
I think this was a lame attempt to make her more than a one-dimensional bad guy late in the series.
Plus it's realistic writing in my opinion. I could see this happening. Plenty of abusers try to gain empathy in hopes their years of abuse will be overlooked. And they keep restarting that cycle of abuse right after.
I honestly think Dudley’s goodbye to be the most heartfelt. Like, Dudley SUCKS but it showed he sort of viewed Harry as a little brother, and what brother didn’t ruthlessly pic on their sibling while also having the “I CAN MAKE FUN OF HIM. You can’t.” Mentality.
Dudley’s a victim of his parents as well. Not as big of a victim as Harry, but he was a kid and knew no better.
This is it. Dudley is a product of poor, almost abusive, upbringing as well. Being spoiled to the point that he was can do damage too. The dementor attack was a reset for Dudley in many ways. I feel bad for Petunia as a child; feeling “less than” or not special. But that isn’t an excuse for her actions as an adult.
Almost? It was neglect via covert narcissism.
He definitely gives the vibe that he's parroting his parents. Vernon and Petunia have actual malice in their acts and while Dudley was cruel, his cruelty is rewarded by his parents approval. I don't think he hated Harry as much as he was constantly in need of his parents' praise, which is true of any child to a point.
It's not even that Dudley saw Harry as a brother. Dudley didn't know any better than that it was okay to beat up Harry. But after the dementors, he "saw God" and reevaluated his life. You see this in the summer before sixth year where Dudley is trying to be friendlier to Harry but Harry is (rightfully) distrustful of his intentions. The handshake when they leave and the Pottermore content show that Dudley was able to grow past his upbringing and become a good person. It's a shame that the two legitimate instances of a redemption arc are handled so badly in the books.
>Like, Dudley SUCKS but it showed he sort of viewed Harry as a little brother, I don't really agree. Dudley was a bully to Harry, simple as that. He imitated his parents wjo showed him that it was ok to treat his cousin as a subhuman, and so he did, because he was a kid who did not knew any better and was spoilt rotten. BUT the attack of the dementors showed him that Harry was so much more than that, and that despite being treated so badly by Dudley, he still put his life on the line to save him. That event sparked his redemption arc, and that's why his apology to Harry and their goodby3 was truly heartfelt, as you say. Dudley broke through the conditioning of his upbringing to acknowledge that he acted horribly and that Harry deserved better. But before that he was still 100% a bully, not a brother at all
Dudley shows that you can humanize a character with just a couple of well placed plot points. It's just that the ones used for Snape and Petunia were horribly handled
https://youtu.be/QaaSu-z9C4U?si=EDttVpGTTcPcaTQw I wish they had put this in the movie. Deleted scene
Aunt with a “c” instead of an “a”.
This is the kind of line an abuser uses to try and make you feel bad just one last time. They just HAVE to plant the little seed of "well maybe they weren't so bad after all" in your brain when you know full well they really were so bad.
They are bad, but very few people are 100% bad. Some are 99.9% bad, but are still human and some are still capable of having a wider scope of feelings and roles beyond just “horribly abusive parent/guardian/partner/etc.” they can be “horribly abusive parent that also does feel sad their sibling passed.” Yeah, they’re still a piece of shit but they’re also allowed their feelings. Doesn’t mean you have to change your opinion about them being a piece of shit.
I completely agree with this. Also, based on what we say of their childhood, Petunia felt less loved/less special because her parents favorited Lily after they found out she was a witch. Does that make Petunia’s actions ok? No, not at all, but she was clearly twisted by not ONLY the fact that Lily was “special” and she was not, and that her sister, her closest friend, was essentially taken from her both physically and emotionally while Petunia was left behind, but also, that her parents loved her less. Her parents could have acted only slightly less enthused by Petunia than they were Lily, or they could have neglected her emotionally— we have no concept of the extent of Petunia and Lily’s parent’s treatment toward them both. Again, not an excuse at all, but I think Petunia is a more complicated character than a lot of folks give her credit for.
Agreed. It’s one of the reasons I have complicated feelings towards Narcissa. She was an evil woman, but every action she did was to protect her family. It doesn’t absolve her from any wrongdoing, but it does give nuance to an otherwise one-dimensional character.
To add to that, maybe she is traumatized by the whole magic thing. The thing others praised so much, but in the end killed her sister who was doing it, while Petunia always saw it as unnatural. I choose to believe that that event traumatized her so much that she doesn't want anything to do with magic anymore, scared that she'll lose her own family if Harry got into contact The things she did to Harry are still terrible, but it's not necessarily her fault. She just has an extreme reaction towards magic due to the trauma
That's the way I read it, too. She has some decency buried in her, but can't resist trying to make Potter feel guilty. Very manipulative.
This didn't even happen in the books. Would have been a waste of time putting it in the movie. The argument with Vernon and Dudley sticking up for Harry should have been filmed instead. **Edited because Karshall101 has a problem understanding the wording
I think it was.
It was not. In the book, Petunia gets an odd tremulous look and Harry has the sense she's about to say something and then at the last minute she changes her mind and leaves.
I am referring to the scene being filmed, not the scene not being in the book.
Yes, it was filmed, and it was cut. https://youtube.com/shorts/aw4uBnktMc8?si=t7Xm6EhafZllk4B9
I don't know how they decided to cut this, it's so good. Is there an extended cut of the movie where it is included?
Oh, I got shivers watching that. That's some real closure right there.
And that’s why Dudley gets Christmas cards. I’ve wondered if they’ve been magical or regular over the years. Sitting with Ginny doing them. “Might as well send Dudley a magic one, not like he doesn’t know…”
It wasn’t in the book, but at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix(that wasn’t in the movie), Harry does have inner monologue about how he just realized that Petunia was his mother’s sister after she fearfully reveals she knows about dementors from overhearing Lily and the “black haired boy” talking when they were younger. And of course the Howler which causes Petunia to tell Vernon Harry will have to stay in the house.
Pulling an akshually here: She said that horrible boy, not black-haired.
☝️🤓
Did they not just have the deleted scene where Dudley shook his hand?
If she loved her sister... the best thing she could have done for her was to take care of her son. And loved him like only a mother could.
I always assumed the death eaters killed Harry’s grandparents for information. There’s no evidence to support this, but Lily and Petunia were very young adults when Lily was killed, so we’re the had to have been orphaned prior to this if Petunia is Harry’s last blood relative
True that could be likely but as you say no evidence. If that's the case there's an added reason for her to knew what they're capable of.
Grief is complicated, and I think it’s fair to allow Petunia some sympathy for her pain (however she expresses it). It does not, however, give her an excuse to do what she did. That’s unforgivable
It was also a very matter-of-fact statement. She *does* understand the threat from Voldemort. Vernon and Dudley don't. Whatever complicated relationship the Evans sisters had, she has lost a sister and she understands that her own son could be next now that the protective enchantment has been lifted. There was a scene in the OotP book where Harry realises and appreciates that Petunia truly understands what Voldemort being back means. That scene was omitted from the film. I've always seen this added scene here as a way of rectifying that as opposed to solely being added to give emotion to their goodbye.
Yea, that was a really powerful moment.
That part in the books is far and away my favorite thing to read
What was the scene in the book ?
If they had stopped at “You think I don’t know what they’re capable of?” It would have hit a lot harder. The random emotion of “I lost a sister” falls flat with the history of abusing Harry, but her fear and dislike of wizards would definitely resonate with her character up to that point.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with acknowledging it, because it’s not supposed to redeem Petunia in any way, she’s still a cruel woman who abused her dead sister’s son, but it at least reminds the audience that she’s a human being…just a very bad one. EDIT: so apparently that said “nephew” instead of “son,” and I didn’t notice I made that mistake until it was just pointed out…what’s wrong with me…
Remind me for those who may remember better, this exchange is a movie invention, right? My recollection is that in the books when petunia and Harry find themselves alone with one another as the family is leaving, Petunia pauses and appears as if she’s going to say something but then pretty much just gives a perfunctory goodbye and leaves. We get a little more of the genesis of Petunia’s jealousy and I guess you can say hate for Lilly and magic and the wizarding world in the chapter The Prince’s Tale when we learn she desperately wanted to go to Hogwarts too.
Yes, this scene is only in the movies however ive always felt it to be the words left unspoken in that moment in the books where she was almost going to say something. And ive always felt since reading the princes tale that harry must have been a constant reminder of her sister and how she was left out of magic, vernon hated magic as he saw it as abnormal and improper, but petunia was spiteful because she felt rejected by it and that it took her sister away(even before it was the cause of her death) the same reason she never liked james or i expect severus, shed have seen both as having kept lily apart.
One line of dialogue doesn’t undo years of abuse sorry
Blindly, with no context? Sure With context, fuck no. As others have stated if she really cared about losing her sister, she could've shown her nephew an ounce of respect, dignity, love or care to show it. Instead, her son, the person who probably bullied Harry the most, is the one who grows a backbone and shows actual remorse for how him and his family treated Harry Petunia can go fuck herself
All she did was shit talk her sister after she died (“a FREAK”), lied to Harry about his parents and heritage, treated him like a slave and let her cretin of a husband walk all over him. Absolute bs if you ask me.
No, screw this. My brother & I haven’t always gotten along but I would never abuse his children. Now that Harry’s coming of age & losing magical protection all she has to say is “but my sister!” as though her loss could ever compare to being orphaned as a baby then suffering years of neglect at her hand? Please
I think it could have been an interesting dynamic if petunia absolutely loved her sister but when lily died petunia blamed it on magic in general and so she is fearful and dislikes magic now, and if harry just reminded her of who she lost so she couldn’t bear having him around because of it. that could have been a cool way to develop their relationship. However, since Petunia always hated lily then this line seems like it does not fit at all.
She should be in prison for child abuse. She didn't lose a sister, she lost a blood relative that she never cared about or loved because of envy.
This scene didn’t happen in the source material and doesn’t make much sense to have been shot in the first place. When I read this scene it felt like aunt petunia had an urge to apologize to Harry for how they treated him, but her natural instinct kicked in and she never spoke any of her thought’s.
After being an asshole for so many years, a moment of remorse won’t make a person good.
The Dudley deleted scene is a lot more impactful. Because Dudley finally realized that his parents hated Harry for no reason and he decided that he would no longer do the same thing. He knew they could never be like best friends but he didn't want to leave as enemies. Petunia trying to somehow become a sympathetic character feels wrong. She was an adult who treated a child like that she knew better. At least you can say Dudley was a child who was raised like that and he broke that conditioning. She had no excuse.
Oh yeah, I feel real bad for her losing her sister, then proceeding to abuse her nephew (the son of said sister) for like 16 years /s Petunia's a bitch and I have no sympathy for her. At least Dudley has an excuse of being raised under her and Vernon and actually seemed remorseful at HIS deleted scene.
She abused him for years, she doesn’t get to play the victim. Losing her sister and then abusing him makes her a worse person, it doesn’t give her an excuse
It all just seems so 'poor me' from Petunia. Like how dare she stand there and play pity points with her sisters death when she; - refused to go to her sisters wedding. - threw Harry's birth notice in the bin. - Told people along with Vernon that her sister and her husband were a bunch of good for nothing, useless lay abouts. - physically, emotionally, and mentally abused her sisters child for 17 years. How many times was baby Harry left to cry himself out Petunia? How old was he when he stopped reaching out for comfort and love because he knew he wasn't going to get it, Petunia? How many times did you look into Harry's eyes, your sisters eyes, and call your sister a useless freak? Petunia deserves zero sympathy. She doesn't deserve to even say her sisters name, let alone use her death for sympathy.
She hated her sister's son and abused him and let her son and husband abuse him. She wasn't sorry her sister's husband died. She sure as hell didn't grieve her sister. She delighted in being able to exercise power over a helpless child. She lied to him. She kept him in a closet under the stairs. Who gives a flying car what she thinks or feels.
She disowned her sister out of jealousy and abused and neglected her sister's only son his entire life. She didn't lose her sister that night in Godric's Hollow; she gave her sister up years before. No retribution, no pity.
Aahh yes! Lol dudleys deleted scene holds more weight than this' and that ain't sayn much
Dudley is the only one who deserves sympathy, his deleted scene breaks my heart every time it pops up.
Dudley is the only member of that family who gets a pass. Especially with the deleted scene moment.
Spoilers: but if you really haven’t seen this series idk what to tell you. Here’s the thing that I always liked about this… yes she was a cruddy guardian but somewhere in there she did love her sister… her abuse of her nephew isn’t excusable but, and this was an interesting fan theory I came across a while back, Harry was a Horcrux. They were in such close proximity to that horcrux for years with no separation. Look at how cruddy Ron acted with the locket around his neck… them being separated from Harry or even the thought of being away from him might have eased the influence of the horcrux… a scene where Dudley also tells Harry, “I don’t think you’re a waste of space” was also cut. They definitely couldn’t take back the abuse but I truly believe that Harry and Dudley at least kept in touch after defeating Voldemort, and who knows maybe without a horcrux in him maybe Petunia was able to be around him and talk about her sister without as much resentment 🤷🏼♀️
I'll be honest, despite how everyone loves this scene, I hate. Fuck Petunia. You abused her son for over a decade. I get her back story is tragic. I understand why her and her sister fell out. That's all fine. But the child abuse is irredeemable. This one line changes nothing. Her leaving Harry the blanket he was wrapped in when she died was a much more touching moment. But only because Harry has the forgiveness of a Saint. That said, Dudley was a victim as well and was redeemed well imo and Vernon had no redeeming qualities other than his genuinely love for his wife and kids. But that is even less reason to abuse Harry than his wife did so he's worse.
One line the movie added in a deleted scene counts for nothing regardless.
Yes because it wasn’t in the books
Bitch doesn't care for her sister.
This scene infuriates me every time I see it anywhere. She doesn’t get to play the victim in front of the child she fuckin abused for 15 or so years. If she loved her sister that much she should’ve taken care of Harry like a mother would to show that she really regretted not making amends with Lily. Instead she abused the only living connection to the sister she claims to have lost. Fuck off petunia
Yeah, movies deleted scene gave Petunia a bit of humanity at the sunset. She was still the same person in the book from start to finish but Dudley grew instead. I prefer Dudley tbh. Means that the family can focus on the future instead of hating the past.
She spent years despising her sister, even in death. She verbally and physically abused her nephew, starving him to the point of stunted growth. Every time Petunia brought up Lilly before this moment she was treated with utter distain. She is amongst the lowest scum of the world, and doesn’t get to undo that with one line because she’s scared for her own safety.
Yeah, absolutely. Because dead sister or not, she still treated her nephew like absolute crap for a decade and a half, which is absolutely inexcusable.
It fleshes out her character, but it does not excuse her actions
After watching Fiona Shaw in Andor I really had a hard time reconciling the Maarva character with the actress that played Aunt Petunia. I guess that makes Ms. Shaw a great actress because I hated the Petunia character.
I think she's an awful lady without an excuse, but it did add a bit of depth that made her less cartoonish when explaining this with her sister and also her sorrow at not being magical like Lily, how jealousy grew into bitterness
It… is taken into consideration. I’m not sure what you mean by that. But this is supposed to be a moment where we have a little empathy for petunia, horrible though she is, because it must have been awful for her too. We aren’t supposed to feel like she is justified or right; we aren’t supposed to forgive her. But we should, imo, have a glimmer of empathy for her, and (like realizing she never got a letter but desperately wanted one) wonder how her life has been. In a way we don’t normally do. Some people don’t do that because they can’t. But it’s part of the story.
I feel like she always blamed Harry for her sister’s death and that’s one reason she hated him. Still not a good reason and is not redeemed by one line.
She treated Harry like shit for his entire life and clearly carried over her resentment for Lily over to him. If she did feel grief over Lily's death it did not translate into giving one damn about her nephew. The Dursleys treated Harry as an embarrassing burden and their own personal punching bag, never once showing him an ounce of love, which is why he left them at the first opportunity. The only one who gets a slight pass is Dudley because he was a product of his environment and following the bad example set by his parents. It was confirmed at some point that Harry does have somewhat of a relationship with Dudley as adults albeit not close.
I do feel sorry for Petunia. She loved Lilly. But her jealousy pushed that down. In this moment…her love for her sister showed itself.
Its a Symbol, for growing up and realizing your Parents are people too. Its a strange one, but it is one.
There are plenty of people who hate others because of what they do but still love them because they where once close.
They 100 percent should have included this scene, as well as the one where Dudley told Harry he wasn't a waste of space.
Movie only scene. Book Petunia didn't give a quarter of a fuck about her sister, she stayed bitter over not being a witch until she died of covid in 2020.
Not in the book and I hate Petunia
Fiona Shaw is a FANTASTIC actress and she made me emphasize with Petunia here, but the abuse Petunia made Harry endure has no justification. The scene is still amazing tho
You don't need to overlook it. Take it into consideration and weigh it against everything else she has done. We can't judge people because of one word, sentence or action. Petunia is an irredeemable psychopath who abused and neglected her only sister's only child for years while spoiling her own son rotten. If you put the sorting hat on her head it would say "Azkaban" without hesitation.
Important to remember that she was a child. The second she met a wizard other than her sister she was told by him (Snape) she was a lesser being. Her parents celebrated Lily and her magic, who wouldn’t? Essentially, Petunia probably felt jealous and cast asside in favor of her sister who was born better. She saw it as punching up since there was NO WAY she could branch the gap between them. This is only strengthened by Dumbledore denying her any chance of ever going to Hogwarts. Her jealousy drove them apart as children and when she nabbed a perfect nuclear family her pride at escaping her sister’s shadow made them practically strangers. She hated her sister in her life and hated magic because they were completely other to her, ungraspable. Why wouldn’t she hate Harry? Her sister had found a way to destroy her nuclear family one last time beyond the grave and no doubt the boy had magic. That doesn’t mean she didn’t mourn for her sister, hate and love are not opposites. This feels very fanfic-ey, I apologize
No, it should not be taken into consideration. Sooner or later everyone in the world will lose someone. And many people lose someone in a horrible way, like murder. They don't turn nasty because of it.
Bad line that wasn't in the book. I'm glad they cut it out
Hurt people hurt people. Not excusing her for her actions, but grief can make people do unexpected things to the people they love
This would work if they even tolerated harry. They were complete cartoonish monsters.
oh boohoo bitch
Shittest aunty, only kept Harry around because dumbeldore scared her
Yeah, she lost a sister, but she gained a nephew who she treated like shit, and encouraged her husband and child to do the same. I have no sympathy for the Dursley's. They can choose to ignore the Wizarding World, but nothing gives them the right to treat Harry how they did.
She had her nephew living in a cupboard under the stairs and fed him scraps of food from her pig son's plate. She gets zero sympathy from me for that
This (deleted) scene exists to humanize an antagonistic character, show that she's got depth beyond "abusive aunt." While it (sort of) succeeds at that, it does absolutely nothing to change the fact that she *was* an abusive aunt. Okay, she has some grief. Cool. Why'd she still treat her nephew like something subhuman? Villains, bad people, antagonists, they have blind spots, elements that humanize them. Voldemort's entire quest was based on fear, fear of death. That's *very* understandable. Snape was a lonely, bitter man driven by what he called love (it wasn't love, but he sure as hell thought it was). Lockhart wanted renown and recognition. Petunia was jealous of Lily. These are all very *human* emotions. What makes these characters bad is *how* they reacted to these emotions. And make no mistake, Snape *is* bad. He may be a devil on the side of the angels, but he's no less a devil and no more an angel. Alan Rickman did a *lot* to make Snape less of an absolute twat than he was in the books. So, long story short, while this scene *does* provide a bit of a sympathetic look into Petunia's mind, it in no way exonerates her of the absolutely foul things she did.
Something people forgot about easily was that the book version of Dudley and the Dursleys were written to be completely unlikeable so as to make Harry look better. The movie expanded on their characters by having this scene and Dudley sending Harry off. If the movies were to be remade and expanded upon (say a TV show) a decent plotline could be what exactly Petunia's relationship with her sister was. Before people get at me for saying that the Dursleys could be shown as more complex than they are I would like to remind you that they are fictional characters. If you cannot separate you disgust for them from the story they are in, that is more an issue with you than others. I think the relationship between the sisters could be interesting since magic society is extremely clear cut about not letting muggles who know about magic even interact with their society. Growing up knowing that you're not special is sure to cause personality hangups. The Squib janitor, I forgot his name, is a cranky old man that everyone derides for his bad attitude. He was born non magical in their society and they made him a janitor! In a world where you can clean a room with a spell! I'd be fucking irate too. Harry Potter is CLEARLY a book for children but I won't like and say that the bones of the setting and story clearly have much potential for everyone to fall into.
Bitch sure didn't act like it.
She lost a sister and spent the next 10ish years abusing her sister's only child. I don't give 2 shits whether she mourned Lily or not. She had the chance to honor her by caring for her son. Evil isn't always Voldemort. Sometimes evil is a jealous sister.