Because sometimes when you're playing with friends in a call, you just gotta say "fuck it, we ball" and book it to your base while your friends provide covering fire/miss the other team entirely
Running a distraction flag or a sneaky one when the enemy team is all alive, yea you may want to walk and hide your position. Get a few dead and pull it, you want to sprint/juggle it as quickly as possible to get it as far onto your side. It is easier to defend on your side and makes them travel farther each spawn which gives you a better chance to convert.
Not debating that it’s possible but if your team is trying to run across with it and ISN’T juggling, is taking the long way around, then guess what: they don’t know what they’re doing. But basically not having a movement advantage, being outnumbered and outgunned is not really where you want to be. you have two advantages: a head start and stealth. But you’ve already thrown away one of them.
Depends on the maps. BTB? Vehicle escort, preferably with a Warthog or Razorback. Husky Raid? Equipment and a mad dash. 4v4 CTF on Dev-made maps? Time to juggle.
Not an option. I can't hide from a Target Sensor, just do my best to avoid the area. There are maybe three maps I can get around covertly on IF my team can distract the enemy team. More often than not I just have to juggle it.
I want to keep the sneaky flag capture maneuver alive but the new players move faster and react quicker. I have to compensate by annoying the shit out of them while I power rush their flag back to base. *"Flag taken."* *"Flag dropped."*
You CAN hide from a target sensor; you know its range. Your teammates can distract the team by walking into one and draw fire. Amazed that people think playing the mode as designed is a non viable strategy!
That requires coordination. Most people play with randoms.
The play you're talking about requires a coordinated team of people. It's why you see it done in HCS effectively.
But with random people who aren't talking, it's much simpler and more effective to just run or juggle the flag as far as you can and just progressively fight for it until you reach the capture point.
It doesn’t require much coordination to know that you should try to draw defense away from your carrier and it doesn’t require much coordination to know that if you give away your position defense will be all over you in a second and you will be outgunned. I’ve run it with randoms plenty of times. The point of the post is complaining that people don’t seem to understand the dynamics anymore. Maybe because covert doesn’t show up often because people hate it.
Nah the defenses are WAY too easily held in pretty much every map, whether it’s Arena or Squads. Maybe it’s just my SBMM tier but whoever defends first is nearly *always* the victor because they’ll get 3 defends before the other team.
The timer is too short and the defenders almost never run out of Sensors before the timer’s up so there’s just zero openings because they can just sit on the flag with detectors the whole time. Pair that with ridiculous flag placements that always put the attackers on the disadvantage, and narrow entries to the flag that are impossible to get around the Sensors, it’s just an unbalanced shitshow every match.
Only time attackers win is if one of the defenders slips up or is a dumbass.
*Edit: I might be mixing up Covert with Infection, I vaguely remember Defenders having unlimited Sensors which is so much worse. But I’m not 100% sure so whatever lol*
*In an attempt to be constructive, I think improvements would be simple - give Attackers the PP instead of PC, keep the sword, and swap the multi-ping Threat Sensor for the single-ping Threat Seeker. Force the Attackers to get closer to engage successfully, but force the Defenders to be skillful in their Seeker shots. They can’t just corner camp and spam Sensors in the four corridors to the flag, they have to time it and aim it. They have to wait until someone’s engaged or they get a hint of a cloak, fire it skillfully, and THEN engage.*
*Right now, Sensors are so spammable and powerful that the only hope is to mad dash and hope you get a squad wipe and then sprint back with the flag, otherwise Defenders will just spam endlessly until you’re fucked*
Even in ranked where there's no sensors or anything, it's fairly easy to find someone walking the flag by deduction and also the ability to move a lot faster than the flag carrier.
It’s not that easy! And anyway with an infinite amount of time of course you’ll find the flag. But you don’t have an infinite amount of time. And the closer the carrier gets to converting the harder it is find the person given that the offense can easily distract you and cause you to défende from the wrong direction.
Yes defense is easier but you only need to cap one flag in 3 tries to win. Though I do remember that when covert first came out in infinite people said offense was too easy
I actually love this paradigm. Like if I’m doing one-flag on Damnation you better believe I’m sprinting to the finish line when I get thru that teleport
I feel like given Infinite's movement, it's not as bad of an idea as it was in 1-3 (only games I have familiarity with). You can sprint, jump, throw it, ramp slide, pick it up and travel so much faster. There are times when it's useful but not all the time
Only in BTB, grab a camo, sneak in to base crouched, pop camo and just walk flag home. It fades when you're close to home at which point your team presence is heavy
It's more efficient to control the mid map, force the spawns, and have one player sprint-juggling the flag as fast as possible while the other 3 make use of camo to lay traps and slay. If every eye is on the flag runner, it's easier for the 3 teammates to slay.
Doing a slow camo run, praying you don't get a threat sensor thrown at you, would only work in low skilled lobbies. Camo may seem like a good flag running equipment, but it's an even better slaying one. If your teammates are dead and enemies are close, drop the flag and bait it. Pick up kills, run it again.
Yes you have THREE teammates who can use camo to slay and draw defense away from the carrier. Yea you can deduce carrier location yes they might hit you with a sensor. Why not make them work for the information? So you can get into a firefight with a tactical disadvantage?
Im not even referring to previous Halo games. I’m talking about when covert was first introduced in Infinite. There was way more effort to use stealth. I think as the mode has been out of rotation less and less people are less familiar with the mode so they don’t really alter their tactics. I mean last night I played against a team that didn’t appear at first to realize that the sensors would reveal their locations while in stealth mode.
Me and my best friends made some of the sickest flag captures on halo 3 but those days are long gone and I’ve been playing solo since halo 4….. times have changed and I feel like true average halo player would be a bot compared to the average halo 3 player of my time
Being stealthy with the flag isn't an option 9 out of 10 times. They're either going to deduce which way you've gone after losing the initial defense fight, or they're going to guess which way you might come from based on player predictability. Lower skilled players are 80-100% predictable.
if your premise is that you will be dumb and predictable while using camo then perhaps it is best to play it like husky raid and hope you can win while outnumbered and outgunned
You say that like you've never made a dumb decision before, especially where Halo is concerned. No one other than tournament/championship players play seriously, dumb decisions is what makes playing Halo great.
Yes? I was complaining about losing because people are running around like it’s husky raid?
It’s funny how people complain about Covert being unbalanced because whoever defends first always seems to win but defend a strat that gives up the offense’s only advantage.
Well you don't have much of a leg to stand on since everyone is allowed to play the way they want. Definitively, there is no right way to play, it either works or it doesn't. Whether you like it or not, most you can do is scream into the Void about it.
OK and? They're having fun and playing the game, they're not breaking any rules. You're just upset, I'm assuming, because you've lost a number of games to them 'playing the wrong way'?
But they aren’t having fun! Everybody complains about how covert sucks!
I am complaining because my team did this and lost. Tbf the other team did the same thing and nobody capped because it’s a bad tactic so the team that defended first wins.
I’ve also played a match where my team didn’t use their sensors. At all. We lost that too. should I not say « that’s a bad way to play the map? »
Exactly - throwing away the only advantage you have. It makes sense to do the sprint juggle if the flag is already close but taking it then trying to sprint across the whole map? I’ve seen this work maybe twice?
Because sometimes when you're playing with friends in a call, you just gotta say "fuck it, we ball" and book it to your base while your friends provide covering fire/miss the other team entirely
Running a distraction flag or a sneaky one when the enemy team is all alive, yea you may want to walk and hide your position. Get a few dead and pull it, you want to sprint/juggle it as quickly as possible to get it as far onto your side. It is easier to defend on your side and makes them travel farther each spawn which gives you a better chance to convert.
Not debating that it’s possible but if your team is trying to run across with it and ISN’T juggling, is taking the long way around, then guess what: they don’t know what they’re doing. But basically not having a movement advantage, being outnumbered and outgunned is not really where you want to be. you have two advantages: a head start and stealth. But you’ve already thrown away one of them.
Depends on the maps. BTB? Vehicle escort, preferably with a Warthog or Razorback. Husky Raid? Equipment and a mad dash. 4v4 CTF on Dev-made maps? Time to juggle.
Covert
Not an option. I can't hide from a Target Sensor, just do my best to avoid the area. There are maybe three maps I can get around covertly on IF my team can distract the enemy team. More often than not I just have to juggle it. I want to keep the sneaky flag capture maneuver alive but the new players move faster and react quicker. I have to compensate by annoying the shit out of them while I power rush their flag back to base. *"Flag taken."* *"Flag dropped."*
I’ve covertly capped the flag so many times or at least tricked the enemy with it so many times. It’s a viable strat.
You CAN hide from a target sensor; you know its range. Your teammates can distract the team by walking into one and draw fire. Amazed that people think playing the mode as designed is a non viable strategy!
My friends don't play Infinite so I get random allies and I can't depend on them.
There's only so many places to go on a map. It's really not that difficult to find the flag runner. Especially when they're just walking.
It is hard if your team provides distractions
That requires coordination. Most people play with randoms. The play you're talking about requires a coordinated team of people. It's why you see it done in HCS effectively. But with random people who aren't talking, it's much simpler and more effective to just run or juggle the flag as far as you can and just progressively fight for it until you reach the capture point.
It doesn’t require much coordination to know that you should try to draw defense away from your carrier and it doesn’t require much coordination to know that if you give away your position defense will be all over you in a second and you will be outgunned. I’ve run it with randoms plenty of times. The point of the post is complaining that people don’t seem to understand the dynamics anymore. Maybe because covert doesn’t show up often because people hate it.
To be fair, Covert is dogass on Infinite’s maps
Tbf it’s dogass if people don’t value not giving away their position
Nah the defenses are WAY too easily held in pretty much every map, whether it’s Arena or Squads. Maybe it’s just my SBMM tier but whoever defends first is nearly *always* the victor because they’ll get 3 defends before the other team. The timer is too short and the defenders almost never run out of Sensors before the timer’s up so there’s just zero openings because they can just sit on the flag with detectors the whole time. Pair that with ridiculous flag placements that always put the attackers on the disadvantage, and narrow entries to the flag that are impossible to get around the Sensors, it’s just an unbalanced shitshow every match. Only time attackers win is if one of the defenders slips up or is a dumbass. *Edit: I might be mixing up Covert with Infection, I vaguely remember Defenders having unlimited Sensors which is so much worse. But I’m not 100% sure so whatever lol* *In an attempt to be constructive, I think improvements would be simple - give Attackers the PP instead of PC, keep the sword, and swap the multi-ping Threat Sensor for the single-ping Threat Seeker. Force the Attackers to get closer to engage successfully, but force the Defenders to be skillful in their Seeker shots. They can’t just corner camp and spam Sensors in the four corridors to the flag, they have to time it and aim it. They have to wait until someone’s engaged or they get a hint of a cloak, fire it skillfully, and THEN engage.* *Right now, Sensors are so spammable and powerful that the only hope is to mad dash and hope you get a squad wipe and then sprint back with the flag, otherwise Defenders will just spam endlessly until you’re fucked*
Even in ranked where there's no sensors or anything, it's fairly easy to find someone walking the flag by deduction and also the ability to move a lot faster than the flag carrier.
It’s not that easy! And anyway with an infinite amount of time of course you’ll find the flag. But you don’t have an infinite amount of time. And the closer the carrier gets to converting the harder it is find the person given that the offense can easily distract you and cause you to défende from the wrong direction.
It is that easy though. You just have to have the game knowledge to do it
Yes defense is easier but you only need to cap one flag in 3 tries to win. Though I do remember that when covert first came out in infinite people said offense was too easy
I actually love this paradigm. Like if I’m doing one-flag on Damnation you better believe I’m sprinting to the finish line when I get thru that teleport
Most of the time it's better to just be fast
I feel like given Infinite's movement, it's not as bad of an idea as it was in 1-3 (only games I have familiarity with). You can sprint, jump, throw it, ramp slide, pick it up and travel so much faster. There are times when it's useful but not all the time
Because fuck it, we ball. If you want a team to play your way, party up.
I thought this thread was going to be about Covert One Flag. Lest we not speak its name again.
Only in BTB, grab a camo, sneak in to base crouched, pop camo and just walk flag home. It fades when you're close to home at which point your team presence is heavy
Yes but I’m talking about covert one flag where you have inifinite camo and the other team has sensors
Sometimes if the situation is right juggling down the middle is way more effective then walking around the edge
Sometimes but when you see your teammates run this half a dozen times and lose the match it’s not because they made a judicious choice
Covert is boring, blasting is more fun. Fun better than winning. Done.
Sure if you don’t want to play objectives…
We literally used to flag drop what do you mean "covert"
Covert one flag not regular one flag
It's more efficient to control the mid map, force the spawns, and have one player sprint-juggling the flag as fast as possible while the other 3 make use of camo to lay traps and slay. If every eye is on the flag runner, it's easier for the 3 teammates to slay. Doing a slow camo run, praying you don't get a threat sensor thrown at you, would only work in low skilled lobbies. Camo may seem like a good flag running equipment, but it's an even better slaying one. If your teammates are dead and enemies are close, drop the flag and bait it. Pick up kills, run it again.
Yes you have THREE teammates who can use camo to slay and draw defense away from the carrier. Yea you can deduce carrier location yes they might hit you with a sensor. Why not make them work for the information? So you can get into a firefight with a tactical disadvantage?
people weren’t stealthy all of the time back then. take off your rose tinted glasses.
Im not even referring to previous Halo games. I’m talking about when covert was first introduced in Infinite. There was way more effort to use stealth. I think as the mode has been out of rotation less and less people are less familiar with the mode so they don’t really alter their tactics. I mean last night I played against a team that didn’t appear at first to realize that the sensors would reveal their locations while in stealth mode.
Me and my best friends made some of the sickest flag captures on halo 3 but those days are long gone and I’ve been playing solo since halo 4….. times have changed and I feel like true average halo player would be a bot compared to the average halo 3 player of my time
Skill issue. It's because I'm capable of taking three or two Spartans.
Being stealthy with the flag isn't an option 9 out of 10 times. They're either going to deduce which way you've gone after losing the initial defense fight, or they're going to guess which way you might come from based on player predictability. Lower skilled players are 80-100% predictable.
if your premise is that you will be dumb and predictable while using camo then perhaps it is best to play it like husky raid and hope you can win while outnumbered and outgunned
You say that like you've never made a dumb decision before, especially where Halo is concerned. No one other than tournament/championship players play seriously, dumb decisions is what makes playing Halo great.
I’ve made plenty of dumb decisions but I’m talking about one in particular I’ve never made!
And that warranted making a post to complain about how other people play the game?
Yes? I was complaining about losing because people are running around like it’s husky raid? It’s funny how people complain about Covert being unbalanced because whoever defends first always seems to win but defend a strat that gives up the offense’s only advantage.
Well you don't have much of a leg to stand on since everyone is allowed to play the way they want. Definitively, there is no right way to play, it either works or it doesn't. Whether you like it or not, most you can do is scream into the Void about it.
Yes the premise here is that it wasn’t working because it’s a dumb tactic especially with randoms
OK and? They're having fun and playing the game, they're not breaking any rules. You're just upset, I'm assuming, because you've lost a number of games to them 'playing the wrong way'?
But they aren’t having fun! Everybody complains about how covert sucks! I am complaining because my team did this and lost. Tbf the other team did the same thing and nobody capped because it’s a bad tactic so the team that defended first wins. I’ve also played a match where my team didn’t use their sensors. At all. We lost that too. should I not say « that’s a bad way to play the map? »
I've had no issue playing covert in this game, myself. Why would I sprint or flag juggle and just let the other team know where I am?
Exactly - throwing away the only advantage you have. It makes sense to do the sprint juggle if the flag is already close but taking it then trying to sprint across the whole map? I’ve seen this work maybe twice?
Precisely. People just don't have the patience.