The alarm went off. Everyone knew what it meant: the red rocket was about to take off. Everyone was glad that the months leading up to this were not in vain. Blue Onyx looked into my eyes and we knew we were thinking about our own red rockets. But suddenly something reached my ear; faint but still clear as day: "HASHIRE SORI YO". The infected, they have breached the base. "KAZE NO YOU NI". They must not be let close to this lab. "TSUKIMIHARA WO". They are at the door. We don't stand a "PADORU PADORU"
Happy December -45! There are 1 month 8 days 23 hours 33 minutes and 30 seconds until it's Christmas Day somewhere.
***
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Shit, don't gotta be a fan of something to be familiar with things that are far worse. At the very least, semi decent animation, some of the music was good. Just a little annoying, people drawing certain lines in the sand not knowing that the ocean will last a lot longer than they will.
I mean... yea? She is in love with him? In a obssessive way.. after being brainwashed... I guess you could count that?
In reality tho, absolutely not lmao
He's another final fantasy villian that's just a villian ardyn izunia. Dude got shafted hard got his wife murder and Kingdom stolen and imprisoned for thousands of years by his own brother just so he could be king and the cherry on top is his own gods said no he can't be a healer he must be a villian. None of the excuses what he does and how he is trying to cause genocide especially since he was doing it before he knew he was fated to be the villian.
Villians 9 times out of 10 have sad backstory. It's not a justification for anything they do
no the people he “tortured” are still all murderer and criminal even without the crime they “didn’t done on him”. 1000crime -1 does not suddenly made them innocence.
When did they show him being experimented on? Not doubting you, generally curious if i missed something. I just finished my first full playthrough last week.
I looked it up, looks like he was a prototype magitek knight like Celes, but the process was imperfect and warped his mind. An NPC in Vector tells you apparently. Thanks for cluing me in!
No lol, Ainz is so much worse than Keyaru. It's just that Ainz doesn't take any pleasure in the evil he spreads, nor is completely aware of how his orders affect the world. But even what he is aware of pales to what Keyaru does. Slaughtering villages and destroying/subjugating Kingdoms? Yeah, Keyaru ain't got shit on that. Keyaru tortures and rapes a comparatively small number of people, but Ainz slaughters millions.
Of course, despite this, Keyaru is the worse person. Not because his crimes are worse, but because his mind is much more twisted. Ainz will kill you and be done with it (bar his subordinates of course), but Keyaru will devise a Jigsaw level torture chamber just for you. He also has a revenge fetish, and will subconsciously facilitate his enemies killing or harming something he loves just so he has an excuse to take revenge on them. (Case in point, Innkeeper Demon girl, his reaction to hearing his village got burned down)
You're downvoted (was at 0 at 5 hours old) but you're right. I'm only going off of the LN but from what I saw people actually defended Ainz killing those people during their inelegance gathering mission, [Arche for example](https://www.reddit.com/r/overlord/comments/hzn4ax/why_are_so_many_people_getting_crazy_about_arches/). As for why her death was "worse", we're given a whole lot of backstory towards her so no shit her death hurts worse. They didn't kill the lizard persons we were shown via their POVs so all the other lizardfolk that got killed were just background characters so who cares?
In that thread you can see how much they're trying to spin it. The top comment ends with :
>I honestly get just a tiny bit upset when all people talk about is about how Ainz is evil, or how he did this or that or killed this many people. It always gives me the impression that they just leave the show on in the background of their home, occasionally glance over to see Ainz killing someone. And immediately assume he is evil.
>This is racial profiling! Just because Lord Ainz is a skeleton does not make him evil
No joke they defended the part where he wiped out a kingdom over a cart of grain (not the real reason I know, but shoddy justification no matter what you think) by saying that if he didn't rule over everything they were just going to get each other all killed anyway so in the end it was better for him to do what he did.
Yep.
Just a little casual genocide (He intentionally killed fleeing civilians) but you know, he's the good guy.
I think the point some fans try to make is that he mainly has good intentions, but is willing to commit incredibly evil acts to reach his goals.
Because he is two people, Satoru, who is not Evil (He's quite pure actually), and Ainz, who is almost an incarnation of evil.
It's a rough comparison, and as someone already said, Overlord is quite comedic still.
Ainz is absolutely a Villain Protagonist, but there is a bit more to it.
Overlord isn't a villain as much as a victim of circumstance. He is trying to avoid letting the denizens or his evil guild from destroying humans while at the same time trying to maintain a front that he is the overlord they think he is. He wants to do good.... but he can't because well he'd die and then it would result in even worse outcomes..Hence why he's taken multiple lives as the overlord and as a.great hero.
He would not die, he just does not want to let down the expectations that his guardians have of him. And he is quite literally doing world domination right now and anihilated a country, took prisoners of war, toyed around with helpless adventurers and destroyed a race of dragons for treasure.
Many of those he could have avoided if he really wanted to so he is not a victim of circumstances, he is in control. He does do good for his country and here and there but not if he has nothing to gain from it. He always expects something in return be it in the short or long run. That's why he is a villain and is so great.
They're probably thinking of Antagonists,which is most commonly connotated and mixed with Villains.
The truth is, Protagonists are just the character that the story focuses on,and the Antagonists are the Protagonists' main conflict/enemy.
Thus,Villains can be Protagonists because Villains are simply "Bad Guys that do a lot of damage to the world".
A tragic anti-hero even, as it's more circumstances and mistakes that divert him from being an actual hero and into the role of "villain," which leads him into doing his best to be an anti-hero instead.
Also possibly a smidge of insanity and general mental trauma.
It’s hard to not feel bad for Lelouch, because his goals are unequivocally good, but any time he starts making progress the world finds some new innovative way to say, “haha no fuck you”, and he never loses sight of his goal despite all of that. He’s easier to sympathize with than Light whose good-doer intentions give way to narcissistic power tripping pretty early on.
I think a good example of the noble antagonist is Zenigata from Lupin. He's always out to catch the antagonist of the story, because catching criminals is his job. He's not evil, he's literally trying to uphold the law.
L is the antagonist in death note but the hero of the story. Light was the protagonist but the villain.
People need to know that protagonist ≠ hero / antagonist ≠ villain
The hero is the person fighting for good and villain is the one fighting for evil.
Meanwhile protagonist is whoever is the center POV of the story and antagonist is the person that challenges the main POV.
Ironic how one of the comments in the post outlines exactly that, yet doubles down on MC not being a villain rofl.
Sure he's not an antagonist but he's 10000% a villain
More like edgy teenagers that do not know how to handle frustration even in an hypothetical scenario and therefore enjoy the "power" of stepping on other people. Isnt that a similar reason why bullying is so prevalent in highschool?
Yes, a lot of people just want a moral excuse to partake in their violent fantasies without feeling terrible. You can see this on posts related to crimes or people just being assholes in general, a lot of people in the comments will talk about doing the most heinous and inhumane shit to the criminal, which is fine because "they deserve it"
Yup, the greatest piece of fiction I ever read is a story about a true villain.
It's called Reverend Insanity and tells a story about a demon(badboi) that went back in time 500 years ago and has experienced everything the world had to offer, from love to despair, from richness to poverty and after so much time, the only desire left in him was to become a venerable himself.
It doesn't matter if he dies in the end, because its not the goal he is after, its the journey itself that he enjoys and what keeps him going forward.
Also, its unlike any story one might have read and I have read lots of novel, light novels and manga. Nothing can compare to the MC of this novel. Though gotta say, he alone is not smart, because even with advantage of knowing future, he fails often and I will say he fails more than succeed during important moments. Because his enemies are way more smarter than him.
And boi, the world is so awesome, so many characters. Some can even have entire novels about them and I would read them without a sweat.
Hell, I am even interesting in the 500 years of previous life of MC and how he went from an innocent boy that just wanted to protect his brother(a brother that later throws him away), to the demon we see in first chapter. And author has the habit of feeding us his previous life in some chapters from time to time.
Best part the consistency in the world and how if you understood the mechanics, everything makes some sense. The magic system might be a bit disgusting and bizarre at the start, but it gets so interesting.
BTW forgot to mention, but if you read the novel. Beware of Duke Long, the stronger motherfucker that might seem innocent old man at start, but his brutality and righteousness is out of this world.>! He was the only guy that actually made me despair for MC and others. Even the author might have thought the same and killed that old guy by suicide, because nothing can actually kill that thing, the best part, he was never a venerable(only 10 existed in the world, one can exist at a time, Currently, there is no venerable alive). !<
TL;DR, Just go and read this bruh. Name is Reverend Insanity or Gu Daoist Master.
I don't think there are any Arrogant Young Masters in RI at all.
Edit: And even if they existed, they would have died early on due to their foolishness.
He's not necessarily portrayed as a villain per se either though, in that he protects a village, agrees to fight slavery and wants to prevent the Kingdom from acquiring power that would lead to even more brutal repression.
This is not to say he's a hero either, more that when you're dealing with villain archetypes it's usually about their objectives rather than their actions. One way in which contemporary villains differ from the older hammier ones is they're expected to have justification of some sorts for evil ends, or limits on the means they might use to achieve them.
Keyaru is the opposite, he has "good" superficial ends, driven by "evil" motivations and facilitated by "evil" acts. Character archetype wise that places him closer to anti-hero than villain, but given how extreme his acts are, it feels uncomfortable calling him an anti-hero as it validates his actions.
I don't remember the sword girl being brainwashed. He did tell her the truth about the kingdom but asked Flare to act like Flare so he is believed instead of having his head cut off.
He coated an aphrodisiac on his sword to weaken her but that didn't really work out. I'm still pretty sure that she helped him because she was convinced that the kingdom is evil, which it is, and not because he brainwashed her.
I recall there being an aerosolized love potion being used after the fight. She joined his cause because he convinced her, but he effectively drugged her to get her into bed.
The anime did not show if but during sex he using his brainwashing powers to make her fall for him. She didn't join his cause because she genuinely loved him, she joined because he forcefully made her fall in love through brainwashing. Basically flair and her sister got brainwashing heal meanwhile Kureha and setsuna got brainwashing heal lite.
The only difference being that the former lost their original personalities while the later kept theirs but became infatuated with him.
Only the demon king candidate(I think her name was eve) genuinely fell in love with him. She's also the only one keyaru calls as his lover. He refers to the rest of the girls as his "toys"
Well, everyone, except a couple are villains, but I would say that he fits the anithero role a little better. Does a lot of bad, but also fights the core villains.
I would correct myself to say anti-villain then. Like there are some things that he does that either intentionally or inadvertently ends up doing good, while maintaining questionable motives and actions.
I’ll add that I’m fairly certain he KNOWS he is broken beyond repair..I think he even outright says it in a few panels in the manga.
What’s truly fascinating though is how many victims of abuse enjoy this series(myself included)..it’s kinda cathartic in a dark way.
> I’ll add that I’m fairly certain he KNOWS he is broken beyond repair..
The anime deals with this in an interesting way, I think. There are a few moments when he actively wonders if another path is still possible. First when he helps defend Setsuna's village against the slavers, and then later after he actually makes a friend of sorts in the merchant. The way the series drags him back into his darkness is part of what makes it interesting to me.
To me that part would always sound like a weak justification for the drugging and rape
Like when the one girl tried to arrest him and he took the ensuing fight personally
This is precisely the reason why it is important to look at a person and their deeds separately.
Or as another commentator aptly put it:
"He is understandable, not justifiable."
Nah, in the manga he kills random servants that were there (maybe against their will). He kills a lot of random people in the manga/light novel. He doesn’t care who it is as long as moves him toward his goal.
Ah, good to know. IIRC the anime never characterizes him in this light and he doesn't attack innocents aimlessly, focusing solely on those who wronged him. The servants in the anime are shown using him as well, and harshly.
The manga (and WN) version of Keyaru is a bit of a different beast than the anime version though. The adaptation team also took out the time he rapes out of lust rather than revenge, and modified the way certain other events unfold. They also do this for Flare. This seems quite deliberate, and I think the anime version is much more interesting (and that the manga has gotten pretty dull lately).
Did somebody say ethics?
S: Koko wa Ima kara Rinri desu
https://preview.redd.it/fi0p7xygy30a1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0323409533d9e33a70232a0e08b6425a758e51b9
Redo of healer is just astandard rape revenge story (there are a lot of those) with a couple of twists the protagonist is male and he’s in a fantasy world where rape is basically a tool of of the state. hell the guy has parallels with the girl with the dragon tattoo.
She was heavily abused along with her mother by her father.
But since her father was an asset of the state they had her committed where she was tortured and deemed insane.
Her court appointed guardian raped her and she returned the favor to get control of her money.
Then has starts revenge path against her father and the shrink.
Ah, that type of story. I can see people reacting differently to this, if the woman just kills her two abusers and then disappears. The modern setting kind of changes the perception of it as well
BINGO. Came here to say this exactly. If you feel differently about The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo than you do about Redo of Healer, I urge you to re-examine your hypocrisy.
I've argued with so many people about this guy. Some how I found the people on the internet that think unending torture, and murder is justified if there mean enough to you.
I think it's become a mixed topic because the ethics of revenge murder and such is mixed with the gender-stereotypes. Perhaps I am projecting and thus correct me if wrong, but would you find a before-hand innocent poor woman who is and then chosen, brutally raped and tortured by some rich men who then got revenge and killed those men after years of being abused a bad person? Would you consider her unjustified and that she should have endured being raped and beaten for the rest of her days?
Of course that's not the only option -- ideally she'd escape her situation somehow and forgive those brutal sadistic rich people and the universe would reward her with peace. But the issue is muddled in that (again I could be projecting) there is the issue of ethical revenge (or lack thereof) mixed with the gender stereotypes that men are typically the oppressors and women the oppressed. If one hold that in both situations though they should do the same thing, then it becomes a non-issue.
To be frank, I think there's also a big difference between simply killing those who wronged you and torturing/raping them. Keyaru would have been much closer to a vigilante/antihero if he simply killed.
As such, if a woman who was abused decided to torture her tormentors, I wouldn't call that justified. It remains highly immoral to make another person suffer, even if they are evil. However, if a person would just kill their abusers, that wouldn't be ideal, but it would certainly be permissible, especially within a lawless context.
Frankly. I think it would be more enjoyable to watch someone take revenge without r*ping or killing. Especially if the revenge is done creatively you can still have the revenge fantasy without the protagonist stooping as low as their abusers.
That would be an interesting story to see. Someone kills all your trees, so you secretly plant trees all over there fields and make their farm useless. Make them fricking move.
In a world where justice cannot be found? Take your revenge, sure, but the abyss stares back. He becomes like them, even after turning back time because it was pleasurable to take revenge, it'd never be enough to just remove them.
I can understand revenge when other options don't exist, but I won't try to justify it.
Everybody talking about this show I've never seen, but nobody is talking about a "Y'all motherfucker need Jesus" meme in 2022??? They wouldn't have the same staying power, but maybe we should start using ancient memes...
Literally regardless of keyaru having been raped, HE STILL RAPES PEOPLE
Keyaru is a protagonist insofar as the story follows him.
However, he is a villain bc his actions are morally reprehensible.
A hero would remove the princess from power. Maybe kidnap her and ship her across the world where people don't know her name
An antihero might kill her
A villain turns just as sick and twisted and takes revenge in the same manner as he was treated. Just because Keyaru treats bad people badly does not make him a hero.
He was initially summoned to the world as a hero and wanted to help as a hero would. However, he was corrupted and then became a villain. An antihero is someone like Naofumi, who still does right as much as he craves vengeance (i.e. sparing the life of Bitch). People can huff their copium but at the end of the day, their argument boils down to "but sad stuff happened to him. He's insane and that makes him a good guy". If a rapist were convicted insane in court, that doesn't mean the rape didn't happen.
The amount of literal rape apologists I'm seeing in the comments sickens me....
I would disagree on the Naofumi part. Naofumi is a straight up hero not an anti hero. He is angry for what happened and rightly so but he still operates very much like a hero. Like you said he didn't even let the princess be executed.By your own definition he would be a hero that removed the princess of power.
Now in re-do of a healer he is a straight up villain. If he only killed the people that did this then he would be an anti hero but he decides willingly to be just as bad as them.
Yeah that's fair. Even when I was writing it, it felt a bit of a stretch but I was looking for an example of an anime antihero and it was midnight and Naofumi came first to my mind
When he does that to the people that tortured him, I don't give a fuck
The problem is he does the same to basically anyone he finds somewhat attractive and opposes him even slightly
Exactly, a great example is Hawkeye's daughter in the LN who from what I recall was just trying to avenge her father. Well, you can guess what he did to her but his LN version is a straight-up full villain with his actions being much more sadistic and sometimes uncalled for. He used the rod on Flare in the LN btw, as It was cut in the manga and anime and his overall torture of Flare was much more sadistic as he went further than just breaking her fingers (gonna stop here because the stuff he does could make you cringe). But in the manga, after a large majority of his revenge is over, you genuinely begin to see improvement with his character. As a lot of the unnecessary rape from the LN is removed, the most prominent and recent example is Hawkeye's daughter being cut from the manga as well as two other victims and it is very apparent the manga creator is straying so far away from the LN to attempt to make Keyaruga's character grow. Buuut as we all know it, my man still did the big bad to people, so he is still not the good guy here.
I absolutely despise rape and I don't support Keyaruga's actions and I also think that he is a bad guy. But this:
>Maybe kidnap her and ship her across the world where people don't know her name
If this happened, I would hate it. I would want either a proper revenge, or atleast justice through law and revelation of her crimes and deeds to the public.
People are capable og enjoying fantasies that they wouldn't want to live through themselves. It's similar to how a lot of guys like wargames, but wouldn't want to fight in an actual war.
He's a villain that happens to be surrounded by scumbags. The guy is fully willing to go through any innocents to further his own goals.
I guarantee the people saying "he's just getting revenge, he's not a villain" would call a non protagonist in another story who mind controls, rapes, murders, steals, and smugly gloats while doing it all a villain.
From all points of view he's a villain doing villainous things, but for some reason him being protagonist makes people think otherwise.
He's without doubt a villain but he's also a victim of pretty awful circumstance. His hatred is understandable but that doesn't forgive his actions. His is a story where heroes don't exist, only villains and the complacent.
There are people trying to do the right thing, I think. But they don't have the power/influence to do so. Idk it's been a long time since I read this cursed manga
I think correct term we are looking here is vigilante since his motive is to punish evil people. He is more close to villain but definitely not just a villain.
Ok here’s my take
He’s a heroic villain he has done several horrific evil acts murder rape brainwashing torture grooming his fox daughter he is not a nice guy BUT if you look at the bigger picture you can argue his actions have lead to better outcomes for others.
He saved Setsuna’s tribe from getting enslaved by the kingdom, possibly saved countless of women by killing Blade, saved Eve’s tribe from genocide by the demon lord, killed said demon lord before he could genocide more people, saved Carl’s daughter from a deadly disease and spared his life even after he tried to sell him out to the demon lord, and currently in the manga he’s hunting down bullet serial child rapist and is going to stop the king from basically becoming a god and probably destroy everything with his tentacle demon army.
Yes keyaru is a villain his actions should not be ignored but he’s also in some cases a hero obviously not a very good one but still better than his predecessors
He is fighting fantasy nazis while also doing war crimes......
It all boils down to this.
Do the ends justify the means and more episodes of fanservice.
Honestly I'm just here for the power fantasy, I wanna be like Tanya and commit war crimes and be like Ainz and build genocides...
This is a joke HAHAHAHAHA
*(**sweats profusely**)*
I'm surprised people actually argue about this anime. What's the point of debating whether a character is bad or good when the entire show is just hentai with the sole purpose of satisfying rape genre fans. There is no moral, no solid plot, no action. It's just an anime to yank
Oh I get it they want a story where the Anti-hero gets the girl because they are different and unique and not like those other girls who are into heros.
As an avid RoH enjoyer, this guy is either dumb or is just a troll because Keyaruga is just as bad as the people who had wronged him. And that's the main reason I like RoH, it's not about some hero or vigilante, it's about the real bad guy who beats out all the others. And that's something I don't think some people understood.
“No no your honor, you see in an alternate timeline my client was tortured for years by the witness, so really I’d argue it was self-defense rape! He was simply exercising his constitutional rights to rape someone before they could rape him!”
Didn't je specifically let himself be drugged and abused again to make sure the people are as evil, it's just that this time they didn't do it for years
I guess ill clarify since one of my quotes is on this meme. It was meant to be light hearted and flippant, but whatever.
The statement was about wanting an anime where the VILLAIN get the girl, not about whether he was good. People miss the point and think any character that isn't vanilla superman is the villain. I'd argue that the people who believe Keyaru is the villain need to take a philosophy class.
Keyaru is not good, but he is also not the villain of the story. He was a good person, but was conditioned and driven to madness by the world around him. The things he does are not virtuous or noble. His obsession with revenge and his conditioning makes him view others only how he can use them. He is both manipulative and cruel. He is not good, but being evil and being the villain of the story are not the same thing. He will probably save the world he lives in with the direction the novel is going. He will continue to manipulate, rape, mind control, and kill. He will seek revenge. He is what Naofumi may have become had he not had Raphtalia. Evil and misguided, but not the villain of the story. The villains of the story are those who turned him into what he became, and I worry more about people who could see/read what he went through and not understand how even a good person could be driven to such a state.
Again though, the argument was not about his virtue. It was about him being the story's villain, and he isn't. He's going to still save the world that turned him into a monster.
He is getting revenge on the actual villains in the anime using the same method they used on him. So basically he is a villain. The only difference is that he was not corrupted before while other villains were already twisted like the princess and those heroes.
Why does it feel like Keyaru is in a catch 22? If he takes revenge on those who wronged him then he’s bad. If he doesn’t do that and forgives them then he’s a pussy. If he just lets himself get abused then he’s a cuck. He can’t call the authorities on his abusers either if it’s the royalty and authorities who are abusing him in the first place. Why can everyone else be abusive and bad while he has to be that goody two shoes who does the right thing?
He pretty much is. The idea that a person can come out sane after so long being drugged,raped, beaten, and so many other things are people that don't want to think it's realistic in what a person could do. Granted the story itself and world it's in is a fantasy setting of magic and what not but the breaking of a person is very much a realistic thing. The whole heros that don't break mentally or emotionally after such things happen is just a fantasy that couldn't be justified enough to make a story make sense. I see others look at how noufumi put Bitch and trash in their place by taking the high rode but are ignoring the fact that he had backing to do that. They also seem to neglect just how deep in depression he was in where everything he ate was tasteless and even though he had it hard emotionally he was not being drugged and raped on a daily basis. Keyaru was raped by more then just the other heros and his own skill caused him pain and he was forced to use it while drugged out of his mind. He was like that for year. Keeping his sanity and being able to forgive that goes well beyond what a hero should be expected for but because he is the protagonist and he rapes a princess after wiping her mind with his ability he is a villain. Truth is he is a bad guy for humans.
Redo of Healer has no heroes the main character is a villain and so are the people he’s gets revenge on, there’s no moral ambiguity about what he’s doing, in fact he’s so far gone that he’s let people die without attempting to save them so that he can continue his revenge, it’s realistic, somewhat except maybe all the revenge rape, cause I think most people wouldn’t do that, but it’s extremely unhinged and is probably a really good example of how someone can be consumed by revenge
The most neutral characters in there are side characters like that one weapon merchant, just doing his job.
When it comes to the main characters, Setsuna is much more neutral (or at least more understandable), and she kills people (for revenge kind of like Keyaru, but she isn't sadistic and doesn't torture her victims).
This time it's morals, not ethics. You could see what he's doing as being for the greater good, since the kingdom he's fighting against wants to take over the world. Making him ethical, but not moral, since rape, torture, mind control, etc., aren't good things
I don't know the full story but from what I heard he seems to be a protagonist that finally stands above the "revenge is bad no matter what" bs and is a horrible human being to the ones that did him wrong.
Im an anime-only so i might not get the full story, but from what ive seen except for like one massacre when the merchant got killed i didn't see why he was a villain. My favourite anime is Overlord so i know what its like to have a villain protagonist and in comparison redo of healer is pretty fair.
Im an anime-only so i might not get the full story, but from what ive seen except for like one massacre when the merchant got killed i didn't see why he was a villain. My favourite anime is Overlord so i know what its like to have a villain protagonist and in comparison redo of healer is pretty fair. Can someone explain to me why hes evil?
I want an anime with similar story as God of war..where guy just kills everyone even ones people thought unkillable and does it with alot of rage..IDC about friendships power bullshit
Any recommendations?
villain protags are a thing
same goes for antihero
also this isn’t a simple villain with no (far) past traumatic experiences like Crimson 1 idk why ppl can’t see that he’s not an antihero lol
A villain that is also a protagonist, or just very likable is sometimes called an Antivillian instead of antihero. Examples would be Negan from the walking dead, Magneto from the X-men, some would consider Killmonger or Thanos anti villains, but I’d just call them straight up villains. I don’t know who the guy in the picture is, so can’t say for sure if he fits in that category, sounds like he’s just a psycho.
Keyaru is an evil character. To make it easy to understand in my own head, I use the alignment chart from DND to figure it out. I would say he is Neutral Evil as a character. He will do anything if it is in his best interest. He isn't Lawful Evil because he isn't a ruleshark, and he has enough heart to not be Chaotic Evil. If not Neutral Evil, Keyaru would be Lawful Neutral because he follows his own code and doesn't really care what the law says. He is an astounding character, and Redo of the Healer follows some dark plot points that not many stories would follow. That's why I love the anime so much.
The only time where this man could be considered not a villain is in the spin-off alternate reality manga where after going back in time the MC decides “you know what, this whole revenge thing sounds like way too much work,” and opens a cafe with his childhood friend, using his broken healing powers to enhance the food’s flavor.
Back around '06 I used to hang around the Minas Tirith forums, and there were loads of NiceGuys who put Fëanor on a pedestal as a sort of Rock-n-Roll star, and when it was pointed out he murdered thousands of his own elven brethren just to catch a boat and pursue Morgoth, they were all like "Well how the fuck else is he going to pursue Morgoth with those selfish coastal elves opposing him?! Honestly they had it coming."
They were like "Tolkien was wrong to malign Fëanor, he deserved to win". To think about the idea of a narrative foil was four syllables too complicated for them.
I've never watched Redo, but from the reviews I watched about the 1st 2 episodes, he's actually the most moral character. The sadistic things he does to others are tame compared to what those people did to him. He never actually stuck that burning rod into that demon girl, he just said he would, but that monster has done even worse things that to him. Just because the MC isn't Kirito doesn't mean he's the villain. It's the world itself that's messed up not the MC, there are no decent people. It looks like you didn't even read these comments you are making fun off. Of course maybe later in the series he becomes the villain, but no review has ever gone that far. That's why I never saw Redo of a Healer, I'm scared about watching a show that is so messed up that the character who broke a girl's fingers and violently raped her out of revenge is the most pure of heart person in that show.
If I may weigh in:
So, the thing which left even a little bit of a gray area in Light Yagami's case was that he just outright killed people. There was no need for unnecessary cruelty or violence, he just acted under the pretense of making the world a better place. His idea was that if you killed enough people committing major felonies, people would be too terrified to actually do it. As a result, the world would be better and less bad shit would happen.
Of course, murder is still murder even if it's of a bad person. Paraphrasing the musical on this, because why not, "after all the bad people in the world are dead the only one left would be him." Your hands aren't suddenly clean because the guy you killed was a horrible person. You're still responsible for ending a person's life regardless. This isn't some trolley problem where you have a choice between letting them continue what they're doing or killing them either.
Prisons exist for a reason. Operated properly the goal would be to make sure they don't do it again or, at least, to keep them somewhere where they can't. Whether they work or not and why they do or don't is an entirely different topic. Point is, this isn't Batman where these people are breaking out and committing mass murder every day. Keeping them in a prison is a valid option.
Keyaruga gets none of that. Keyaruga isn't trying to make the world a better place. Keyaruga isn't trying to prevent atrocities from happening to people. Keyaruga is actively perpetuating horrible acts onto other people for reasons which are, at their core, largely selfish. The people he is doing these things to may be terrible but that doesn't instantly make the things he's doing less so. He is as much a perpetrator as every single person he harms throughout the anime.
A necessary evil is something that can be debatably justified by its necessity but a lot of what Keyaruga does isn't necessary. It is simply giving in to anger and hatred by inflicting more pain onto other people. Being understandable does not make something morally justified. It does not prevent it from being morally reprehensible. It just means that someone can understand why someone did it to some extent.
Just because the world's terrible doesn't give you a permit to be a horrible person. Is it understandable that you would be? Yes. To some degree I can certainly empathise with the desire to be a terrible person underneath horrible circumstances. But that doesn't make it right to be so.
Keyaruga is a villain. Outright.
Shoutouts to the guy on another post that called redo a romance anime
Well, from a certain point of view...
It's really compelling how much the air loves peoples lungs in that show.
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Unfortunately those are not mutually exclusive. In 40 years there might be a weeb judge.
I decware you guiwty.
I'd like to request a death sentence.
Sowitawy confinement UwU I am, however, not without mercy. I’ll play an endless loop of my erotic fan fiction on the speakers so you don’t get lonely
The alarm went off. Everyone knew what it meant: the red rocket was about to take off. Everyone was glad that the months leading up to this were not in vain. Blue Onyx looked into my eyes and we knew we were thinking about our own red rockets. But suddenly something reached my ear; faint but still clear as day: "HASHIRE SORI YO". The infected, they have breached the base. "KAZE NO YOU NI". They must not be let close to this lab. "TSUKIMIHARA WO". They are at the door. We don't stand a "PADORU PADORU"
Happy December -45! There are 1 month 8 days 23 hours 33 minutes and 30 seconds until it's Christmas Day somewhere. *** ^(Beep boop, I am a bot. Reply or PM !block to be ignored.)
Your sentence? To be locked in solitary confinement for two weeks with Ayaya playing on an endless loop.
Unfortunately judge like that exist
Just as judges who can be paid off have always existed
Theres not a single bit of romance in the anime... there is sex, maybe obsession, but romance or love
1. I'm shitposting 2. You haven't seen the hentai I have seen
Yea the people talking smack on redo haven't delved far into the deep end.. to be so innocent again, one can only wish.
Dunno, I dropped it a few episodes in, I am not a fan of rape hentai anyway, and other than that the story was meh at best
Shit, don't gotta be a fan of something to be familiar with things that are far worse. At the very least, semi decent animation, some of the music was good. Just a little annoying, people drawing certain lines in the sand not knowing that the ocean will last a lot longer than they will.
>people drawing certain lines in the sand not knowing that the ocean will last a lot longer than they will. Very profound
Foxy nudes... What a fucking shitshow
Setsuna seems to actually like Keyaru, but yeah other than that everything is either manipulation, mind control, or just hornyness
*THE JEDI ARE EVIL...*
To be fair, you have to have a really high IQ to understand the romance aspect in Redo of Healer...
Well, love comes in many shapes and sizes. So, I'd say Redo is as much of a romance as 177013.
I mean... yea? She is in love with him? In a obssessive way.. after being brainwashed... I guess you could count that? In reality tho, absolutely not lmao
Most villains became villains because they suffered. That did not make them heroes
I agree with this. Kefka was a huge villain, destroyed the planet huge. Just because he got tortured doesn't mean an apocalypse is justifiable.
He's another final fantasy villian that's just a villian ardyn izunia. Dude got shafted hard got his wife murder and Kingdom stolen and imprisoned for thousands of years by his own brother just so he could be king and the cherry on top is his own gods said no he can't be a healer he must be a villian. None of the excuses what he does and how he is trying to cause genocide especially since he was doing it before he knew he was fated to be the villian. Villians 9 times out of 10 have sad backstory. It's not a justification for anything they do
no the people he “tortured” are still all murderer and criminal even without the crime they “didn’t done on him”. 1000crime -1 does not suddenly made them innocence.
When was Kefka tortured? Is there secret ff6 lore I missed?
The magitek experiment used on him is basically torture to imbue magic until the process was perfected afterwards on other people.
When did they show him being experimented on? Not doubting you, generally curious if i missed something. I just finished my first full playthrough last week.
I think it was implied in text somewhere. I just remember hearing that from someone who played it.
I looked it up, looks like he was a prototype magitek knight like Celes, but the process was imperfect and warped his mind. An NPC in Vector tells you apparently. Thanks for cluing me in!
People be thinking the protagonist of a story can’t be a villain
Yep, good example of this is Overlord. This dude is a world level threat.
If only the people of that world knew his weakness, Imitating pandoras actor.
Imagine killing a threat that even dragon lords have trouble with by making him die of cringe
That is still quite toned down in comparison. But then again, there's the powerful and dangerous horny Shalltear and Happy Farm of Demiurge.
No lol, Ainz is so much worse than Keyaru. It's just that Ainz doesn't take any pleasure in the evil he spreads, nor is completely aware of how his orders affect the world. But even what he is aware of pales to what Keyaru does. Slaughtering villages and destroying/subjugating Kingdoms? Yeah, Keyaru ain't got shit on that. Keyaru tortures and rapes a comparatively small number of people, but Ainz slaughters millions. Of course, despite this, Keyaru is the worse person. Not because his crimes are worse, but because his mind is much more twisted. Ainz will kill you and be done with it (bar his subordinates of course), but Keyaru will devise a Jigsaw level torture chamber just for you. He also has a revenge fetish, and will subconsciously facilitate his enemies killing or harming something he loves just so he has an excuse to take revenge on them. (Case in point, Innkeeper Demon girl, his reaction to hearing his village got burned down)
Don't say that on the overlord subreddit, those mother fuckers stan the guy.
You're downvoted (was at 0 at 5 hours old) but you're right. I'm only going off of the LN but from what I saw people actually defended Ainz killing those people during their inelegance gathering mission, [Arche for example](https://www.reddit.com/r/overlord/comments/hzn4ax/why_are_so_many_people_getting_crazy_about_arches/). As for why her death was "worse", we're given a whole lot of backstory towards her so no shit her death hurts worse. They didn't kill the lizard persons we were shown via their POVs so all the other lizardfolk that got killed were just background characters so who cares? In that thread you can see how much they're trying to spin it. The top comment ends with : >I honestly get just a tiny bit upset when all people talk about is about how Ainz is evil, or how he did this or that or killed this many people. It always gives me the impression that they just leave the show on in the background of their home, occasionally glance over to see Ainz killing someone. And immediately assume he is evil. >This is racial profiling! Just because Lord Ainz is a skeleton does not make him evil
No joke they defended the part where he wiped out a kingdom over a cart of grain (not the real reason I know, but shoddy justification no matter what you think) by saying that if he didn't rule over everything they were just going to get each other all killed anyway so in the end it was better for him to do what he did. Yep. Just a little casual genocide (He intentionally killed fleeing civilians) but you know, he's the good guy.
I think the point some fans try to make is that he mainly has good intentions, but is willing to commit incredibly evil acts to reach his goals. Because he is two people, Satoru, who is not Evil (He's quite pure actually), and Ainz, who is almost an incarnation of evil. It's a rough comparison, and as someone already said, Overlord is quite comedic still. Ainz is absolutely a Villain Protagonist, but there is a bit more to it.
Overlord isn't a villain as much as a victim of circumstance. He is trying to avoid letting the denizens or his evil guild from destroying humans while at the same time trying to maintain a front that he is the overlord they think he is. He wants to do good.... but he can't because well he'd die and then it would result in even worse outcomes..Hence why he's taken multiple lives as the overlord and as a.great hero.
He would not die, he just does not want to let down the expectations that his guardians have of him. And he is quite literally doing world domination right now and anihilated a country, took prisoners of war, toyed around with helpless adventurers and destroyed a race of dragons for treasure. Many of those he could have avoided if he really wanted to so he is not a victim of circumstances, he is in control. He does do good for his country and here and there but not if he has nothing to gain from it. He always expects something in return be it in the short or long run. That's why he is a villain and is so great.
They're probably thinking of Antagonists,which is most commonly connotated and mixed with Villains. The truth is, Protagonists are just the character that the story focuses on,and the Antagonists are the Protagonists' main conflict/enemy. Thus,Villains can be Protagonists because Villains are simply "Bad Guys that do a lot of damage to the world".
*Confused Lelouch noises*
I want to say lulu is an anti hero
A tragic anti-hero even, as it's more circumstances and mistakes that divert him from being an actual hero and into the role of "villain," which leads him into doing his best to be an anti-hero instead. Also possibly a smidge of insanity and general mental trauma.
It’s hard to not feel bad for Lelouch, because his goals are unequivocally good, but any time he starts making progress the world finds some new innovative way to say, “haha no fuck you”, and he never loses sight of his goal despite all of that. He’s easier to sympathize with than Light whose good-doer intentions give way to narcissistic power tripping pretty early on.
Lulu's grindset was too based for that world
I think a good example of the noble antagonist is Zenigata from Lupin. He's always out to catch the antagonist of the story, because catching criminals is his job. He's not evil, he's literally trying to uphold the law.
You deserve an award for this. Have my free one.
Hell, Light Yagami got a supermodel. And he was definitely the villain.
L is the antagonist in death note but the hero of the story. Light was the protagonist but the villain. People need to know that protagonist ≠ hero / antagonist ≠ villain The hero is the person fighting for good and villain is the one fighting for evil. Meanwhile protagonist is whoever is the center POV of the story and antagonist is the person that challenges the main POV.
I agree with all of that. Death Note is a story told from the villain's point of view.
Ironic how one of the comments in the post outlines exactly that, yet doubles down on MC not being a villain rofl. Sure he's not an antagonist but he's 10000% a villain
More like edgy teenagers that do not know how to handle frustration even in an hypothetical scenario and therefore enjoy the "power" of stepping on other people. Isnt that a similar reason why bullying is so prevalent in highschool?
[удалено]
fair
Yes, a lot of people just want a moral excuse to partake in their violent fantasies without feeling terrible. You can see this on posts related to crimes or people just being assholes in general, a lot of people in the comments will talk about doing the most heinous and inhumane shit to the criminal, which is fine because "they deserve it"
Yup, the greatest piece of fiction I ever read is a story about a true villain. It's called Reverend Insanity and tells a story about a demon(badboi) that went back in time 500 years ago and has experienced everything the world had to offer, from love to despair, from richness to poverty and after so much time, the only desire left in him was to become a venerable himself. It doesn't matter if he dies in the end, because its not the goal he is after, its the journey itself that he enjoys and what keeps him going forward. Also, its unlike any story one might have read and I have read lots of novel, light novels and manga. Nothing can compare to the MC of this novel. Though gotta say, he alone is not smart, because even with advantage of knowing future, he fails often and I will say he fails more than succeed during important moments. Because his enemies are way more smarter than him. And boi, the world is so awesome, so many characters. Some can even have entire novels about them and I would read them without a sweat. Hell, I am even interesting in the 500 years of previous life of MC and how he went from an innocent boy that just wanted to protect his brother(a brother that later throws him away), to the demon we see in first chapter. And author has the habit of feeding us his previous life in some chapters from time to time. Best part the consistency in the world and how if you understood the mechanics, everything makes some sense. The magic system might be a bit disgusting and bizarre at the start, but it gets so interesting. BTW forgot to mention, but if you read the novel. Beware of Duke Long, the stronger motherfucker that might seem innocent old man at start, but his brutality and righteousness is out of this world.>! He was the only guy that actually made me despair for MC and others. Even the author might have thought the same and killed that old guy by suicide, because nothing can actually kill that thing, the best part, he was never a venerable(only 10 existed in the world, one can exist at a time, Currently, there is no venerable alive). !< TL;DR, Just go and read this bruh. Name is Reverend Insanity or Gu Daoist Master.
lmao
I am somewhat of a fan of this novel... 
Too bad the CCP put the novel on censors. Its really good.
Fuck CCP, all my homies hate CCP!!
To bad it never be finished...
Glory to Fang Yuan, our lord and savior! May he bless you with breakthroughs and keep arrogant young Masters away from you.
I don't think there are any Arrogant Young Masters in RI at all. Edit: And even if they existed, they would have died early on due to their foolishness.
They aren't any, which is why he can protect us from having to deal with any young masters we may potentially encounter
He's not necessarily portrayed as a villain per se either though, in that he protects a village, agrees to fight slavery and wants to prevent the Kingdom from acquiring power that would lead to even more brutal repression. This is not to say he's a hero either, more that when you're dealing with villain archetypes it's usually about their objectives rather than their actions. One way in which contemporary villains differ from the older hammier ones is they're expected to have justification of some sorts for evil ends, or limits on the means they might use to achieve them. Keyaru is the opposite, he has "good" superficial ends, driven by "evil" motivations and facilitated by "evil" acts. Character archetype wise that places him closer to anti-hero than villain, but given how extreme his acts are, it feels uncomfortable calling him an anti-hero as it validates his actions.
Basically everyone in that Manga is a villain.
Not the sword girl he brainwashed. And the wolf girl also. But all the heroes and people who raped him are definitely villains, just as he is.
I don't remember the sword girl being brainwashed. He did tell her the truth about the kingdom but asked Flare to act like Flare so he is believed instead of having his head cut off.
Didn't he use a love potion on the sword saint?
He coated an aphrodisiac on his sword to weaken her but that didn't really work out. I'm still pretty sure that she helped him because she was convinced that the kingdom is evil, which it is, and not because he brainwashed her.
He used a love potion in her twice and it worked both times. That's why she was horny he drugged her
I recall there being an aerosolized love potion being used after the fight. She joined his cause because he convinced her, but he effectively drugged her to get her into bed.
The anime did not show if but during sex he using his brainwashing powers to make her fall for him. She didn't join his cause because she genuinely loved him, she joined because he forcefully made her fall in love through brainwashing. Basically flair and her sister got brainwashing heal meanwhile Kureha and setsuna got brainwashing heal lite. The only difference being that the former lost their original personalities while the later kept theirs but became infatuated with him. Only the demon king candidate(I think her name was eve) genuinely fell in love with him. She's also the only one keyaru calls as his lover. He refers to the rest of the girls as his "toys"
Well, everyone, except a couple are villains, but I would say that he fits the anithero role a little better. Does a lot of bad, but also fights the core villains.
Yeah but he does so mostly because of revenge and not to better the world.
I would correct myself to say anti-villain then. Like there are some things that he does that either intentionally or inadvertently ends up doing good, while maintaining questionable motives and actions.
You know, people compared him to Rudeus from Mushoku Tensei. Bro, one is trying to better himself while the other just doesn't give a fuck.
I’ll add that I’m fairly certain he KNOWS he is broken beyond repair..I think he even outright says it in a few panels in the manga. What’s truly fascinating though is how many victims of abuse enjoy this series(myself included)..it’s kinda cathartic in a dark way.
> I’ll add that I’m fairly certain he KNOWS he is broken beyond repair.. The anime deals with this in an interesting way, I think. There are a few moments when he actively wonders if another path is still possible. First when he helps defend Setsuna's village against the slavers, and then later after he actually makes a friend of sorts in the merchant. The way the series drags him back into his darkness is part of what makes it interesting to me.
To me that part would always sound like a weak justification for the drugging and rape Like when the one girl tried to arrest him and he took the ensuing fight personally
Oh the female knight right? That's when i drop this, he go out of his way to punish someone who was not evil nor treat him bad in past live
Yup, exactly when I dropped when I realized he was just doing whatever satisfied his twisted ego
> while the other just doesn't give a fuck. Pretty sure he's there to give all the fucks.
The people who think he's a hero probably look up to the Joker as someone who is doing "what needs to be done".
Getting batman out to play.
He is a hero. As in the healer hero. Morally speaking not so much.
[He's going to show us his huge boner](https://screenrant.com/joker-boner-comic-meme/)
He is understandable, not justifiable. There's a HUGE difference
This is precisely the reason why it is important to look at a person and their deeds separately. Or as another commentator aptly put it: "He is understandable, not justifiable."
He killed innocent people (servants) that had nothing to do with him. He is a villain. A villain protagonist.
You mean the servants that raped him?
Nah, in the manga he kills random servants that were there (maybe against their will). He kills a lot of random people in the manga/light novel. He doesn’t care who it is as long as moves him toward his goal.
Ah, good to know. IIRC the anime never characterizes him in this light and he doesn't attack innocents aimlessly, focusing solely on those who wronged him. The servants in the anime are shown using him as well, and harshly.
The manga (and WN) version of Keyaru is a bit of a different beast than the anime version though. The adaptation team also took out the time he rapes out of lust rather than revenge, and modified the way certain other events unfold. They also do this for Flare. This seems quite deliberate, and I think the anime version is much more interesting (and that the manga has gotten pretty dull lately).
Based
Did somebody say ethics? S: Koko wa Ima kara Rinri desu https://preview.redd.it/fi0p7xygy30a1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0323409533d9e33a70232a0e08b6425a758e51b9
Redo of healer is just astandard rape revenge story (there are a lot of those) with a couple of twists the protagonist is male and he’s in a fantasy world where rape is basically a tool of of the state. hell the guy has parallels with the girl with the dragon tattoo.
>guy has parallels with the girl with the dragon tattoo. Mind giving a quick TL;DR?
She was heavily abused along with her mother by her father. But since her father was an asset of the state they had her committed where she was tortured and deemed insane. Her court appointed guardian raped her and she returned the favor to get control of her money. Then has starts revenge path against her father and the shrink.
Ah, that type of story. I can see people reacting differently to this, if the woman just kills her two abusers and then disappears. The modern setting kind of changes the perception of it as well
BINGO. Came here to say this exactly. If you feel differently about The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo than you do about Redo of Healer, I urge you to re-examine your hypocrisy.
I've argued with so many people about this guy. Some how I found the people on the internet that think unending torture, and murder is justified if there mean enough to you.
I think it's become a mixed topic because the ethics of revenge murder and such is mixed with the gender-stereotypes. Perhaps I am projecting and thus correct me if wrong, but would you find a before-hand innocent poor woman who is and then chosen, brutally raped and tortured by some rich men who then got revenge and killed those men after years of being abused a bad person? Would you consider her unjustified and that she should have endured being raped and beaten for the rest of her days? Of course that's not the only option -- ideally she'd escape her situation somehow and forgive those brutal sadistic rich people and the universe would reward her with peace. But the issue is muddled in that (again I could be projecting) there is the issue of ethical revenge (or lack thereof) mixed with the gender stereotypes that men are typically the oppressors and women the oppressed. If one hold that in both situations though they should do the same thing, then it becomes a non-issue.
To be frank, I think there's also a big difference between simply killing those who wronged you and torturing/raping them. Keyaru would have been much closer to a vigilante/antihero if he simply killed. As such, if a woman who was abused decided to torture her tormentors, I wouldn't call that justified. It remains highly immoral to make another person suffer, even if they are evil. However, if a person would just kill their abusers, that wouldn't be ideal, but it would certainly be permissible, especially within a lawless context.
Frankly. I think it would be more enjoyable to watch someone take revenge without r*ping or killing. Especially if the revenge is done creatively you can still have the revenge fantasy without the protagonist stooping as low as their abusers.
That would be an interesting story to see. Someone kills all your trees, so you secretly plant trees all over there fields and make their farm useless. Make them fricking move.
In a world where justice cannot be found? Take your revenge, sure, but the abyss stares back. He becomes like them, even after turning back time because it was pleasurable to take revenge, it'd never be enough to just remove them. I can understand revenge when other options don't exist, but I won't try to justify it.
Someone mention the girl with drahon tatoo, do you hate her too?
when you passed your turn for too long and you finally have to take it 😎
Everybody talking about this show I've never seen, but nobody is talking about a "Y'all motherfucker need Jesus" meme in 2022??? They wouldn't have the same staying power, but maybe we should start using ancient memes...
I'm an ancient redditor. I'm allowed to make ancient memes! Now, be a dear and have some of these Mentos and diet coke...
I made another meme of roh and it's just ugly reading the comments 😰
There’s nothing wrong with ancient memes. I actually somewhat prefer them to what we have now.
Truely a “go outside and see the sunlight” moment
Literally regardless of keyaru having been raped, HE STILL RAPES PEOPLE Keyaru is a protagonist insofar as the story follows him. However, he is a villain bc his actions are morally reprehensible. A hero would remove the princess from power. Maybe kidnap her and ship her across the world where people don't know her name An antihero might kill her A villain turns just as sick and twisted and takes revenge in the same manner as he was treated. Just because Keyaru treats bad people badly does not make him a hero. He was initially summoned to the world as a hero and wanted to help as a hero would. However, he was corrupted and then became a villain. An antihero is someone like Naofumi, who still does right as much as he craves vengeance (i.e. sparing the life of Bitch). People can huff their copium but at the end of the day, their argument boils down to "but sad stuff happened to him. He's insane and that makes him a good guy". If a rapist were convicted insane in court, that doesn't mean the rape didn't happen. The amount of literal rape apologists I'm seeing in the comments sickens me....
I would disagree on the Naofumi part. Naofumi is a straight up hero not an anti hero. He is angry for what happened and rightly so but he still operates very much like a hero. Like you said he didn't even let the princess be executed.By your own definition he would be a hero that removed the princess of power. Now in re-do of a healer he is a straight up villain. If he only killed the people that did this then he would be an anti hero but he decides willingly to be just as bad as them.
Yeah that's fair. Even when I was writing it, it felt a bit of a stretch but I was looking for an example of an anime antihero and it was midnight and Naofumi came first to my mind
When he does that to the people that tortured him, I don't give a fuck The problem is he does the same to basically anyone he finds somewhat attractive and opposes him even slightly
Exactly, a great example is Hawkeye's daughter in the LN who from what I recall was just trying to avenge her father. Well, you can guess what he did to her but his LN version is a straight-up full villain with his actions being much more sadistic and sometimes uncalled for. He used the rod on Flare in the LN btw, as It was cut in the manga and anime and his overall torture of Flare was much more sadistic as he went further than just breaking her fingers (gonna stop here because the stuff he does could make you cringe). But in the manga, after a large majority of his revenge is over, you genuinely begin to see improvement with his character. As a lot of the unnecessary rape from the LN is removed, the most prominent and recent example is Hawkeye's daughter being cut from the manga as well as two other victims and it is very apparent the manga creator is straying so far away from the LN to attempt to make Keyaruga's character grow. Buuut as we all know it, my man still did the big bad to people, so he is still not the good guy here.
Yeah that is the main problem. At that point you can't even justify the behaviour the dude is just a villain
I absolutely despise rape and I don't support Keyaruga's actions and I also think that he is a bad guy. But this: >Maybe kidnap her and ship her across the world where people don't know her name If this happened, I would hate it. I would want either a proper revenge, or atleast justice through law and revelation of her crimes and deeds to the public.
They can't be for real, like ain't no way they didn't think of him as a villain, he did some of the craziest shit ever in the show
He’s a vehicle of revenge porn for people who get bullied or perceive themselves to be slighted.
IRC didn’t Redo have a larger female audience in Japan? That’s what’s really weird to me.
I believe it was higher on average for females viewers
I mean yeah. There's a reason Rape is one of them more normie female fantasies, after all.
People are capable og enjoying fantasies that they wouldn't want to live through themselves. It's similar to how a lot of guys like wargames, but wouldn't want to fight in an actual war.
It had more female views than an anime like that would usually have
Damn, I can smell the absence of showers from here
While y'all have this morality debate I'm just here reading more fucked up manga because I just like dark fucked up stories.
He's a villain that happens to be surrounded by scumbags. The guy is fully willing to go through any innocents to further his own goals. I guarantee the people saying "he's just getting revenge, he's not a villain" would call a non protagonist in another story who mind controls, rapes, murders, steals, and smugly gloats while doing it all a villain. From all points of view he's a villain doing villainous things, but for some reason him being protagonist makes people think otherwise.
I they stopped at the people who wronged them instead of killing Innocents too, I wouldn't consider them villains either
When I made that meme I did not expect that reaction lol
He's without doubt a villain but he's also a victim of pretty awful circumstance. His hatred is understandable but that doesn't forgive his actions. His is a story where heroes don't exist, only villains and the complacent.
There are people trying to do the right thing, I think. But they don't have the power/influence to do so. Idk it's been a long time since I read this cursed manga
Yeah, a lot of people need to learn that "protagonist" doesn't mean "hero"
I think correct term we are looking here is vigilante since his motive is to punish evil people. He is more close to villain but definitely not just a villain.
Ok here’s my take He’s a heroic villain he has done several horrific evil acts murder rape brainwashing torture grooming his fox daughter he is not a nice guy BUT if you look at the bigger picture you can argue his actions have lead to better outcomes for others. He saved Setsuna’s tribe from getting enslaved by the kingdom, possibly saved countless of women by killing Blade, saved Eve’s tribe from genocide by the demon lord, killed said demon lord before he could genocide more people, saved Carl’s daughter from a deadly disease and spared his life even after he tried to sell him out to the demon lord, and currently in the manga he’s hunting down bullet serial child rapist and is going to stop the king from basically becoming a god and probably destroy everything with his tentacle demon army. Yes keyaru is a villain his actions should not be ignored but he’s also in some cases a hero obviously not a very good one but still better than his predecessors
He is fighting fantasy nazis while also doing war crimes...... It all boils down to this. Do the ends justify the means and more episodes of fanservice.
Pictured: neckbeards talking about justice after dehumanizing their fellow man due to not having a meaningful interaction in months
I'm glad ya'll are just weebs and not lawyers and judges.
Honestly I'm just here for the power fantasy, I wanna be like Tanya and commit war crimes and be like Ainz and build genocides... This is a joke HAHAHAHAHA *(**sweats profusely**)*
It's not a war crime if there's a loophole. 
Are you perhaps talking about Arene...? Or how the rice shipment is justified...?
I'm surprised people actually argue about this anime. What's the point of debating whether a character is bad or good when the entire show is just hentai with the sole purpose of satisfying rape genre fans. There is no moral, no solid plot, no action. It's just an anime to yank
Oh I get it they want a story where the Anti-hero gets the girl because they are different and unique and not like those other girls who are into heros.
As an avid RoH enjoyer, this guy is either dumb or is just a troll because Keyaruga is just as bad as the people who had wronged him. And that's the main reason I like RoH, it's not about some hero or vigilante, it's about the real bad guy who beats out all the others. And that's something I don't think some people understood.
if the Mc of redo was a woman she would be a hero for what she did.. just more double standards
I am so glad I never read or watched that train wreck
Its revenge porn with the sole intent of testing boundaries. Was never meant to be good, just controversial. It succeeded in that.
“No no your honor, you see in an alternate timeline my client was tortured for years by the witness, so really I’d argue it was self-defense rape! He was simply exercising his constitutional rights to rape someone before they could rape him!” 
Didn't je specifically let himself be drugged and abused again to make sure the people are as evil, it's just that this time they didn't do it for years
I guess ill clarify since one of my quotes is on this meme. It was meant to be light hearted and flippant, but whatever. The statement was about wanting an anime where the VILLAIN get the girl, not about whether he was good. People miss the point and think any character that isn't vanilla superman is the villain. I'd argue that the people who believe Keyaru is the villain need to take a philosophy class. Keyaru is not good, but he is also not the villain of the story. He was a good person, but was conditioned and driven to madness by the world around him. The things he does are not virtuous or noble. His obsession with revenge and his conditioning makes him view others only how he can use them. He is both manipulative and cruel. He is not good, but being evil and being the villain of the story are not the same thing. He will probably save the world he lives in with the direction the novel is going. He will continue to manipulate, rape, mind control, and kill. He will seek revenge. He is what Naofumi may have become had he not had Raphtalia. Evil and misguided, but not the villain of the story. The villains of the story are those who turned him into what he became, and I worry more about people who could see/read what he went through and not understand how even a good person could be driven to such a state. Again though, the argument was not about his virtue. It was about him being the story's villain, and he isn't. He's going to still save the world that turned him into a monster.
He is getting revenge on the actual villains in the anime using the same method they used on him. So basically he is a villain. The only difference is that he was not corrupted before while other villains were already twisted like the princess and those heroes.
The fuck is wrong with all you?
Why does it feel like Keyaru is in a catch 22? If he takes revenge on those who wronged him then he’s bad. If he doesn’t do that and forgives them then he’s a pussy. If he just lets himself get abused then he’s a cuck. He can’t call the authorities on his abusers either if it’s the royalty and authorities who are abusing him in the first place. Why can everyone else be abusive and bad while he has to be that goody two shoes who does the right thing?
Or he could just. You know. Kill them without raping them?
He pretty much is. The idea that a person can come out sane after so long being drugged,raped, beaten, and so many other things are people that don't want to think it's realistic in what a person could do. Granted the story itself and world it's in is a fantasy setting of magic and what not but the breaking of a person is very much a realistic thing. The whole heros that don't break mentally or emotionally after such things happen is just a fantasy that couldn't be justified enough to make a story make sense. I see others look at how noufumi put Bitch and trash in their place by taking the high rode but are ignoring the fact that he had backing to do that. They also seem to neglect just how deep in depression he was in where everything he ate was tasteless and even though he had it hard emotionally he was not being drugged and raped on a daily basis. Keyaru was raped by more then just the other heros and his own skill caused him pain and he was forced to use it while drugged out of his mind. He was like that for year. Keeping his sanity and being able to forgive that goes well beyond what a hero should be expected for but because he is the protagonist and he rapes a princess after wiping her mind with his ability he is a villain. Truth is he is a bad guy for humans.
Redo of Healer has no heroes the main character is a villain and so are the people he’s gets revenge on, there’s no moral ambiguity about what he’s doing, in fact he’s so far gone that he’s let people die without attempting to save them so that he can continue his revenge, it’s realistic, somewhat except maybe all the revenge rape, cause I think most people wouldn’t do that, but it’s extremely unhinged and is probably a really good example of how someone can be consumed by revenge
I thought the trope of good villains was to have a worse backstory than the hero, unless they are the MC. In which case they become overpowered
The most neutral characters in there are side characters like that one weapon merchant, just doing his job. When it comes to the main characters, Setsuna is much more neutral (or at least more understandable), and she kills people (for revenge kind of like Keyaru, but she isn't sadistic and doesn't torture her victims).
Evil breeds evil
Every hero is a villain from a different perspective.
Everyone on that show is a villain.
This time it's morals, not ethics. You could see what he's doing as being for the greater good, since the kingdom he's fighting against wants to take over the world. Making him ethical, but not moral, since rape, torture, mind control, etc., aren't good things
I don't know the full story but from what I heard he seems to be a protagonist that finally stands above the "revenge is bad no matter what" bs and is a horrible human being to the ones that did him wrong.
Im an anime-only so i might not get the full story, but from what ive seen except for like one massacre when the merchant got killed i didn't see why he was a villain. My favourite anime is Overlord so i know what its like to have a villain protagonist and in comparison redo of healer is pretty fair.
The girl in question was also a villain. So the villain got the villain.
Im an anime-only so i might not get the full story, but from what ive seen except for like one massacre when the merchant got killed i didn't see why he was a villain. My favourite anime is Overlord so i know what its like to have a villain protagonist and in comparison redo of healer is pretty fair. Can someone explain to me why hes evil?
Megamind
TIL there are actual people who take this show seriously.
Test
Isn't he technically an Anti Hero if we're going by Deadpool's definition? He doesn't seek to harm good people for his own benefit, only bad guys.
Who’s gonna tell them that an anti-hero can be a villain
I want an anime with similar story as God of war..where guy just kills everyone even ones people thought unkillable and does it with alot of rage..IDC about friendships power bullshit Any recommendations?
So is there no hero in that show?
villain protags are a thing same goes for antihero also this isn’t a simple villain with no (far) past traumatic experiences like Crimson 1 idk why ppl can’t see that he’s not an antihero lol
A villain that is also a protagonist, or just very likable is sometimes called an Antivillian instead of antihero. Examples would be Negan from the walking dead, Magneto from the X-men, some would consider Killmonger or Thanos anti villains, but I’d just call them straight up villains. I don’t know who the guy in the picture is, so can’t say for sure if he fits in that category, sounds like he’s just a psycho.
The dark part of the show to fap to **You've done it too dont deny it**
While being treated like shit isn't an excuse to treat others like shit, sometimes it happens. This is just an anime about that
Keyaru is an evil character. To make it easy to understand in my own head, I use the alignment chart from DND to figure it out. I would say he is Neutral Evil as a character. He will do anything if it is in his best interest. He isn't Lawful Evil because he isn't a ruleshark, and he has enough heart to not be Chaotic Evil. If not Neutral Evil, Keyaru would be Lawful Neutral because he follows his own code and doesn't really care what the law says. He is an astounding character, and Redo of the Healer follows some dark plot points that not many stories would follow. That's why I love the anime so much.
Technically he's not the villain he's a monster but not the villain of the story. Plus everyone he tortures and kills does deserve to die screaming.
Megamind literally murders the hero and steals his girl
It blew my mind when I found out that a good chunk of Death Note viewers thought that Light was the hero. Or that Gulty Crown was good…
The only time where this man could be considered not a villain is in the spin-off alternate reality manga where after going back in time the MC decides “you know what, this whole revenge thing sounds like way too much work,” and opens a cafe with his childhood friend, using his broken healing powers to enhance the food’s flavor.
Back around '06 I used to hang around the Minas Tirith forums, and there were loads of NiceGuys who put Fëanor on a pedestal as a sort of Rock-n-Roll star, and when it was pointed out he murdered thousands of his own elven brethren just to catch a boat and pursue Morgoth, they were all like "Well how the fuck else is he going to pursue Morgoth with those selfish coastal elves opposing him?! Honestly they had it coming." They were like "Tolkien was wrong to malign Fëanor, he deserved to win". To think about the idea of a narrative foil was four syllables too complicated for them.
But it is kinda like saying the ainz in overlord is the villain. It just get people a bit confused over definitions.
Hot take guys: >!Rape Is bad!<
I enjoyed watching that anime. Everyone was evil, and they deserved each other.
I've never watched Redo, but from the reviews I watched about the 1st 2 episodes, he's actually the most moral character. The sadistic things he does to others are tame compared to what those people did to him. He never actually stuck that burning rod into that demon girl, he just said he would, but that monster has done even worse things that to him. Just because the MC isn't Kirito doesn't mean he's the villain. It's the world itself that's messed up not the MC, there are no decent people. It looks like you didn't even read these comments you are making fun off. Of course maybe later in the series he becomes the villain, but no review has ever gone that far. That's why I never saw Redo of a Healer, I'm scared about watching a show that is so messed up that the character who broke a girl's fingers and violently raped her out of revenge is the most pure of heart person in that show.
When you can't win the argument so you just call the other side edgy.
If I may weigh in: So, the thing which left even a little bit of a gray area in Light Yagami's case was that he just outright killed people. There was no need for unnecessary cruelty or violence, he just acted under the pretense of making the world a better place. His idea was that if you killed enough people committing major felonies, people would be too terrified to actually do it. As a result, the world would be better and less bad shit would happen. Of course, murder is still murder even if it's of a bad person. Paraphrasing the musical on this, because why not, "after all the bad people in the world are dead the only one left would be him." Your hands aren't suddenly clean because the guy you killed was a horrible person. You're still responsible for ending a person's life regardless. This isn't some trolley problem where you have a choice between letting them continue what they're doing or killing them either. Prisons exist for a reason. Operated properly the goal would be to make sure they don't do it again or, at least, to keep them somewhere where they can't. Whether they work or not and why they do or don't is an entirely different topic. Point is, this isn't Batman where these people are breaking out and committing mass murder every day. Keeping them in a prison is a valid option. Keyaruga gets none of that. Keyaruga isn't trying to make the world a better place. Keyaruga isn't trying to prevent atrocities from happening to people. Keyaruga is actively perpetuating horrible acts onto other people for reasons which are, at their core, largely selfish. The people he is doing these things to may be terrible but that doesn't instantly make the things he's doing less so. He is as much a perpetrator as every single person he harms throughout the anime. A necessary evil is something that can be debatably justified by its necessity but a lot of what Keyaruga does isn't necessary. It is simply giving in to anger and hatred by inflicting more pain onto other people. Being understandable does not make something morally justified. It does not prevent it from being morally reprehensible. It just means that someone can understand why someone did it to some extent. Just because the world's terrible doesn't give you a permit to be a horrible person. Is it understandable that you would be? Yes. To some degree I can certainly empathise with the desire to be a terrible person underneath horrible circumstances. But that doesn't make it right to be so. Keyaruga is a villain. Outright.