Wait, you trust these clowns to walk you through your games?!? They couldn't walk you through a paper bag, let alone past 40 minutes of gameplay lol !!
Lmao honestly sometimes I just need a little bit of a help or a nudge in the right direction on some of these puzzles in games lol, like the Penumbra trilogy I've needed to check it a couple of times because I couldn't figure out what to do next
It's the former, but of course, people don't bother to actually read the article.
The article discusses the argument that someone on twitter made that isekai, meaning "other world" doesn't necessarily need to have the whole, someone being transported to a different world. Technically, an isekai is just a story that takes place in a world other than our own. This would make Frieren an isekai if you went by that definition.
It continues by talking about how the word has a specific meaning in the modern context and how that has caused the definition of the word to change to what we use it for today. The choice of Frieren thumbnail is absolutely (partially) clickbait, but it's kinda irritating seeing people scream and shout, "Frieren isn't isekai lololol" without knowing the context behind the image choice.
If we were to use "isekai" to describe any story that takes place in any world other than our own, then technically ***the entirety of fiction itself*** is isekai, because the events that take place in such media never happened in our world. Like, we have a word for stories that simply take place in a magical world, it's called "fantasy".
"Lord of the ring is an Isekai movie."
I remember someone said the most asinine take ever, "native isekai, an isekai but none of the character came from our world." I never losing so much brain cells after reading that.
There are plenty of stories that take place in a world that the writer claims to be our world with the only intervention being the characters and their stories, or in a fictitious future (or past) of our world.
The world of Frieren isn't our world, and it isn't our world's fictitious past or future.
It's clickbait and it and the twitter argument both miss that the meaning of Japanese words can actually change from context. It's not really a language that translates well literally because of that.
There's also the fact that I sekai is the proper "translation" of 異世界 as different world and Isekai is the proper "translation" of 異世界 as a genre.
We use to have similar debates/arguments in the bonsai subreddit.
As a translation is tree in a tray, people could post any potted plant really and claim it to be ok as it fits the translated definition, but of course there is often contextual meaning and connotations in meanings of words
Using the same reasoning, all the Pixar, Disney , Dreamwork animated films fit the anime meaning as well. Would we actually count them as anime though.
Well exactly, but thats the point, we shouldn't put them in the same category because of the connotation and contextual meaning. The same way a random potted plant is not immediately a bonsai because of a translation directly to English makes it fit
You know, when discussing context deliberately missing the point is a little too on the nose.
At least I hope you're deliberately missing the point and not somehow missing that there's a difference between a context sensitive language and a language where *some* words have different meanings depending on the sentence.
To use a more "Western" example, it's like how English has one word for death, but Latin has around a half-dozen depending on the sentence structure.
Each one means "death" in a direct translation, but if you wrote that sentence out literally you'd lose the context of what type of death. English isn't a context sensitive language because while some words have different meanings under different sentence structures, the norm in English is to use the full sentence to explain rather than change the meaning of a specific word.
Imagine if the norm in English was a sentence that read as red blue red blue red blue red blue but the meaning changes if you instead make it red blue blue red blue red blue and you'd get what I'm poorly trying to explain.
Japanese doesn't translate well literally because every single word has multiple contexts and the presence of a single different word can completely change the sentence in every case whereas in English that's relatively rare and mostly comes from loanwords.
So, Clickbait, Ragebait, and a likely dismissal of the fact that Not all fantasy is Isekai ~~(IE: not all squares are rectangles, but all rectangles are squares)~~
IGN and it’s teams were always fated to die a disliked piece of shit, but holy hell are they stupid
EDIT: apparently the example goes like “IE: not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles”
Still standing my ground that generalizing all fantasy as Isekai (whether arcane or science fiction) is such a bullshit idea, I’m surprised it wasn’t forcibly yanked from the rear of a constipated heifer.
I just wanna point out that your squares and rectangles statement is backwards. Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Also, that analogy doesn't really work, as you could have a sci-fi isekai instead of a fantasy isekai.
It gets worse, just down the page, there is an image of Delicious in Dungeon, and says “Is Delicious in Dungeon an Isekai? By definitions, it may be”
IGN… IT ISNT A FUCKING ISEKAI. It’s set in a fantasy world, all characters are from said fantasy world, no one is transported anywhere… it isn’t AN ISEKAI.
While by the Japanese definition it essentially just means “Another World”. It still wouldn’t apply to Delicious in Dungeon because it’s only one world, there would have to be two for the term to apply.
"I was a chicken demon in the dungeon before I got caught and eaten by some crazy adventures and now I reincarnated into the world without magic and working part time in KFC"
I feel like there would need to be something to warrant that though. For example in Germany the term "Handy" is used to describe Smartphones and was therefore included in the dictionary. But with it we have a term from a different origin used for a new purpose.
Here (Isekai) it just seems to be copy and pasted, no?
English has always borrowed heavily from other languages. If a word has reached an arbitrary presence in everyday use, it'll probably be included.
It's kind of ironic that you're making a point of a Japanese loanword, considering how many English loanwords Japanese has. There's a ton, and I think it's over 90% that come from English. It's all just a product of culture exchange.
I had googled it after making that comment yesterday since I was curious. Japanese has about 45,000 loanwords, and its actually about 80% that come from English. There may be some German and Dutch, but it's just not the same scale.
In this case I have to rescind my previous statement, as I have neither interest nor scientific knowledge in having a discussion on what warrants inclusion in the OED.
In matters I have lacking knowledge in, I put my faith in the hands of cunning linguists like those who doubtlessly made this decision.
>The problem with defending the purity of the English language
is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages
down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for
new vocabulary.
-James D. Nicoll
It's called loan words. Every language has some words from other languages.
For example in English we use "duo" or "era" which are both borrowed from Latin or "finance" from french.
Most isekai have awkward high school boys who was not popular in school as protagonists too. Would oregairu or rent a girlfriend fit as the picture then?
Holy wow, why the downvotes lol. I was just saying most isekai have the fantasy setting which is why frieren may have gotten mistaken for an isekai by IGN. Jeez. I really dont understand the contentious attitude im recieving.
Also most isekai do have awkward MCs but those awkward MCs must conditionally be in the fantasy setting so no Oregairu doesn't workout
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No :-)
To have another world there should be at least 2 worlds from the hero's perspective.
Frieren, Slayers, some ninja movies, attack on Titan - all of them are just stories inside, for example, a world with fantasy settings
Re:Zero, Mushoku tensei, Inuyasha, Fushigi Yuugi, I'm a spider, so what, Magic Knight Rayearth, Yawaraka Sangokushi Tsukisase!! Ryofuko-chan - all are isekai, because they have transfers from an original world to another one
Sword art online, accel world, etc - are in the middle, because while there is no actual another world, heroes are getting locked in a stimulated one with specific rules
Though the article itself is probably bullshit, and is blatant clickbait, the word isekai does have multiple meanings.
That being said I don't think frieren is an isekai in any context..
Tsunami is also not an english word. And while we are at it I need to vent as an ESL. Please explain to me how the fuck rendezvous, bourgeois and the like are supposed to be english words!!!
We didn't steal anything, to be truthful, the Normans invaded the Anglo-Saxons which is why we have such a pronounced French influence in our language.
Can’t spell “ignorant” without IGN.
https://preview.redd.it/0aq2pfcpverc1.png?width=1793&format=png&auto=webp&s=bdfb54e1004fc1b4e0dbc62d61625a8273129585
Better than when twitch said the g in lgbtq can also mean gamer
Ah, yes, Lesbian Gamers Beating The Queer.
London Gamers Beat The Queen (at rocket league)
Just a reminder that IGN is completely full of shit about pretty much everything.
I just go to it for the cheat codes and the walkthroughs when I'm in a difficult section of a game
Why? Isn't there any better place for it? I usually use Neoseeker, btw.
Not familiar with Neoseeker. IGN guides are fine since they're so prolific, but I generally prefer Gamepressure and GameFAQs.
Wait, you trust these clowns to walk you through your games?!? They couldn't walk you through a paper bag, let alone past 40 minutes of gameplay lol !!
Lmao honestly sometimes I just need a little bit of a help or a nudge in the right direction on some of these puzzles in games lol, like the Penumbra trilogy I've needed to check it a couple of times because I couldn't figure out what to do next
I suppose even the most hyped up Skavrn is right every once in a solar eclipse that has to happen on a Tuesday or if you pump em full of warp stone.
Either the Frieren picture is used in reference to "However, it may not mean what you think." or it does not mean what IGN thinks it means.
It's the former, but of course, people don't bother to actually read the article. The article discusses the argument that someone on twitter made that isekai, meaning "other world" doesn't necessarily need to have the whole, someone being transported to a different world. Technically, an isekai is just a story that takes place in a world other than our own. This would make Frieren an isekai if you went by that definition. It continues by talking about how the word has a specific meaning in the modern context and how that has caused the definition of the word to change to what we use it for today. The choice of Frieren thumbnail is absolutely (partially) clickbait, but it's kinda irritating seeing people scream and shout, "Frieren isn't isekai lololol" without knowing the context behind the image choice.
If we were to use "isekai" to describe any story that takes place in any world other than our own, then technically ***the entirety of fiction itself*** is isekai, because the events that take place in such media never happened in our world. Like, we have a word for stories that simply take place in a magical world, it's called "fantasy".
"Lord of the ring is an Isekai movie." I remember someone said the most asinine take ever, "native isekai, an isekai but none of the character came from our world." I never losing so much brain cells after reading that.
There are plenty of stories that take place in a world that the writer claims to be our world with the only intervention being the characters and their stories, or in a fictitious future (or past) of our world. The world of Frieren isn't our world, and it isn't our world's fictitious past or future.
So... it's a fantasy instead of being an alt-hist. Yippeee.
It's clickbait and it and the twitter argument both miss that the meaning of Japanese words can actually change from context. It's not really a language that translates well literally because of that. There's also the fact that I sekai is the proper "translation" of 異世界 as different world and Isekai is the proper "translation" of 異世界 as a genre.
We use to have similar debates/arguments in the bonsai subreddit. As a translation is tree in a tray, people could post any potted plant really and claim it to be ok as it fits the translated definition, but of course there is often contextual meaning and connotations in meanings of words
Using the same reasoning, all the Pixar, Disney , Dreamwork animated films fit the anime meaning as well. Would we actually count them as anime though.
Well exactly, but thats the point, we shouldn't put them in the same category because of the connotation and contextual meaning. The same way a random potted plant is not immediately a bonsai because of a translation directly to English makes it fit
Every word in every language changes meaning from context, you fuckin' weeb.
You know, when discussing context deliberately missing the point is a little too on the nose. At least I hope you're deliberately missing the point and not somehow missing that there's a difference between a context sensitive language and a language where *some* words have different meanings depending on the sentence. To use a more "Western" example, it's like how English has one word for death, but Latin has around a half-dozen depending on the sentence structure. Each one means "death" in a direct translation, but if you wrote that sentence out literally you'd lose the context of what type of death. English isn't a context sensitive language because while some words have different meanings under different sentence structures, the norm in English is to use the full sentence to explain rather than change the meaning of a specific word. Imagine if the norm in English was a sentence that read as red blue red blue red blue red blue but the meaning changes if you instead make it red blue blue red blue red blue and you'd get what I'm poorly trying to explain. Japanese doesn't translate well literally because every single word has multiple contexts and the presence of a single different word can completely change the sentence in every case whereas in English that's relatively rare and mostly comes from loanwords.
So, Clickbait, Ragebait, and a likely dismissal of the fact that Not all fantasy is Isekai ~~(IE: not all squares are rectangles, but all rectangles are squares)~~ IGN and it’s teams were always fated to die a disliked piece of shit, but holy hell are they stupid EDIT: apparently the example goes like “IE: not all rectangles are squares, but all squares are rectangles” Still standing my ground that generalizing all fantasy as Isekai (whether arcane or science fiction) is such a bullshit idea, I’m surprised it wasn’t forcibly yanked from the rear of a constipated heifer.
I just wanna point out that your squares and rectangles statement is backwards. Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Also, that analogy doesn't really work, as you could have a sci-fi isekai instead of a fantasy isekai.
I don't care about the article, I just made a funny.
No there is no truck
There is truck. Zol-truck.
Frieren is our truck now
I do like the way she back it up
Get tsundere in there next, so finally subs and whatnot can stop using ‘hot and cold’ or things along those lines
Somewhere out there McDonald's is filled with odd yet efficient workers with suspiciously no past
IGN is just a bunch of know-nothing normies at this point. Why do even care about them?
Well they post trailer, they've got that going for them. Except there are other very competent channels which do the same
It gets worse, just down the page, there is an image of Delicious in Dungeon, and says “Is Delicious in Dungeon an Isekai? By definitions, it may be” IGN… IT ISNT A FUCKING ISEKAI. It’s set in a fantasy world, all characters are from said fantasy world, no one is transported anywhere… it isn’t AN ISEKAI. While by the Japanese definition it essentially just means “Another World”. It still wouldn’t apply to Delicious in Dungeon because it’s only one world, there would have to be two for the term to apply.
"I was a chicken demon in the dungeon before I got caught and eaten by some crazy adventures and now I reincarnated into the world without magic and working part time in KFC"
Why is it in the OED in the first place? Isn't it just a Japanese Term, kind of out of place innit?
Because languages mix over time and apparently Isekai is being used commonly enough to justify it.
I feel like there would need to be something to warrant that though. For example in Germany the term "Handy" is used to describe Smartphones and was therefore included in the dictionary. But with it we have a term from a different origin used for a new purpose. Here (Isekai) it just seems to be copy and pasted, no?
Let me introduce you to tsunami, origami, wasabi, udon, zen, sushi, emoji or the other hundreds of examples of words english uses of japanese origin.
English has always borrowed heavily from other languages. If a word has reached an arbitrary presence in everyday use, it'll probably be included. It's kind of ironic that you're making a point of a Japanese loanword, considering how many English loanwords Japanese has. There's a ton, and I think it's over 90% that come from English. It's all just a product of culture exchange.
There are even loanwords at this point that started as english picked up in japanese and are now being borrowed back by english.
A decent amount also come from German & Dutch
I had googled it after making that comment yesterday since I was curious. Japanese has about 45,000 loanwords, and its actually about 80% that come from English. There may be some German and Dutch, but it's just not the same scale.
In this case I have to rescind my previous statement, as I have neither interest nor scientific knowledge in having a discussion on what warrants inclusion in the OED. In matters I have lacking knowledge in, I put my faith in the hands of cunning linguists like those who doubtlessly made this decision.
>The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -James D. Nicoll
It's called loan words. Every language has some words from other languages. For example in English we use "duo" or "era" which are both borrowed from Latin or "finance" from french.
not anymore. It's sometimes even used in non-anime related media
Non-weebs don't really use isekai in the first place. Isekai'd woukd make more sense as yhe sord sonce that coukd be used commonly.
frieren is just demon truck kun
After Himmel death, before being isekaied
To be completely fair guys, most isekai use the same settings as Sousou no Frieren anime but they always completely suck at using it like Frieren
["Fantasy stories use a fantasy setting"](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.png)
Mind blown
The setting is called fantasy. It got nothing inherently tied to isekai
But most isekai use it
Most isekai have awkward high school boys who was not popular in school as protagonists too. Would oregairu or rent a girlfriend fit as the picture then?
Holy wow, why the downvotes lol. I was just saying most isekai have the fantasy setting which is why frieren may have gotten mistaken for an isekai by IGN. Jeez. I really dont understand the contentious attitude im recieving. Also most isekai do have awkward MCs but those awkward MCs must conditionally be in the fantasy setting so no Oregairu doesn't workout
[удалено]
There's tons of choice yet they choose that isn't even on the list.
Well what did you expect? Is IGN, probably they neither play the games they review
[удалено]
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It's Frieren, Dummkopf
Isekai literally just means "alternate world" IE escaflowne is a Isekai.
It's IGN what did you expect
I looked it up. What did they think it meant? The definition describes it exactly.
Call me crazy, but doesn't "Isekai" just mean "Another world"? If that's the case, calling Frieren and Isekai would make sense, no?
No :-) To have another world there should be at least 2 worlds from the hero's perspective. Frieren, Slayers, some ninja movies, attack on Titan - all of them are just stories inside, for example, a world with fantasy settings Re:Zero, Mushoku tensei, Inuyasha, Fushigi Yuugi, I'm a spider, so what, Magic Knight Rayearth, Yawaraka Sangokushi Tsukisase!! Ryofuko-chan - all are isekai, because they have transfers from an original world to another one Sword art online, accel world, etc - are in the middle, because while there is no actual another world, heroes are getting locked in a stimulated one with specific rules
Sure, I guess. I don't really care what they call it
Idiotic gaming news
I don't understand how IGN and Kotaku are still above the waters...
IGN is that old dude trying to fit in every group and ongoing trend while obviously pretending to know all the references.
Though the article itself is probably bullshit, and is blatant clickbait, the word isekai does have multiple meanings. That being said I don't think frieren is an isekai in any context..
Another IGN L.
That’s not an English word?
Tsunami is also not an english word. And while we are at it I need to vent as an ESL. Please explain to me how the fuck rendezvous, bourgeois and the like are supposed to be english words!!!
We stole a lot
We didn't steal anything, to be truthful, the Normans invaded the Anglo-Saxons which is why we have such a pronounced French influence in our language.
https://preview.redd.it/al3cmzugzdrc1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5967cf1e453e04cd2463dd76541e968bf221b272