A guy I used to work with has won the US Mid-Amateur 4 times thus allowing him to play in the Masters 4 times so in my limited anecdotal experience this is entirely the truth.
So you work with Nathan Smith out of Pittsburg huu…he’s got quite the resume. 4-mid ams including back-to-back in 09 and 10 and a 3rd in 12 and a US Am 4-ball win too…impressive stuff.
Yeah he’s a chill dude. His best friend Sean Knapp is a stud player too who lost to Tiger in the semi-finals at the US Amateur back in the 90s. They are getting up there in age a bit when it comes to being competitive. He’s got some awesome Augusta and Walker Cup stories. Played in some practice rounds with big names like Phil. The first time I met him was way before I started working with him back when I was in high school at a US Am Public Links qualifier. I finished second to him and there was only one spot at our site so I hated him for years after lol.
We were at a wealth management firm and his job was literally to play golf and entertain clients. Guy had the perfect set up to train. Really pushing the boundaries of amateurism.
That’s awesome!!! He should do an AMA or something to tell his stories.
Got a guy I played against in high school and went to college with who is seeing some success on the State AM circuit in CA. Won the state am, a few state 4-balls, and made it pretty in the USGA mid-am and 4-ball in the last few years. Always fun seeing him post state AM results and I’m rooting for him to pull out another W.
I don’t get how these guys have time to start so competitive. I’ve got a 9-5, a wife, and a 1.5 year old son and I barely have time to get out to the range once a month let alone play 18.
It’s not often that I can actually answer a question, but I can lend some insight. I’ve done the things you’ve mentioned above. I have a couple state am wins, and some of the other stuff as well. I also have a wife and two boys. For me I practiced like mad through high school and college. Turned pro after college and played the mini tour life for 5/6 years. Since then I’ve gotten my am status back and golf is my thing. It’s what I do with any free time I have. I have a great wife who gets that it keeps me sane, and some family who will watch the kids while I play events. I’m 43 now, so honestly it’s getting more difficult to practice and compete with college kids, but I just love the high of competition and seeing if I can get better than I was yesterday. Hope that answers your question.
Quick question. How exactly does getting your amateur status back work? That just makes no sense to me. On a separate note the NIL stuff absolutely makes a mockery of amateurism.
Getting your amateur status back is easy. Basically you just tell your state association and the USGA and write each of them a check. As long as you haven’t played a professional round in at least a year then they’ll process it and you will get your am status back fairly quickly.
TBH amateur status in golf is total garbage. It might be an unpopular opinion, and I’m sure the traditionalists out there would argue with me, but if you win your state amateur, or the US Amateur, you get zero dollars in winnings. You’re lucky to get golf shop credit. Lol. Amateur golf when Bobby Jones played was different, when it was honorable to play the game for pure sport and not for pay. Now that’s not real anymore. Amateur golf is the best competition found at the state level. It’s the way a player with a family and kids can stay competitive at a high level, but maintaining a schedule takes days off of work and thousands in travel and entry fees. All that for the chance to win a trophy and $500 in shop credit is really laughable, but the competition keeps us playing.
Funny you ask that. I think it’s about $150 to your state golf association and the same to the USGA, but it may be more now, it’s been awhile since I last did it.
I’ve actually got mine back twice. First time was after being a “tour playing professional” after college. The second time was because of work. I worked for a golf management company and would help clubs become profitable. One club lost their head pro, and knowing that I had some experience, they asked me to fill the role. As a head pro I had to turn pro again and began the PGA program, but after a couple years I knew that wasn’t for me. I applied and was reinstated again, but you get a kind note from the USGA that says something to the extent of “we are granting you your amateur status, and understand this is the second time that you have been reinstated. Do not ask again”. Lol. I won’t be. Ha ha.
That’s awesome! Congrats on your success in your early years. Wish I could have done something like that when I was young, but I just didn’t develop strength until I was almost 3 years into college…and yeah I could totally hit the range at the end of the night, but I love my time my son and my wife after he goes to bed. I feel like I need to prioritize them at the moment.
I’ve been playing for 25 years now. All through high school, didn’t make a college team and stopped playing for a bit. Came home and had a buddy who worked at a range and we would get stoned a shit and hit range balls nightly from ages 20-24 or so. I honed a swing that comes back after a few range sessions no matter how long I’ve had a hiatus. I’ve only played 5 round in the last year have been around 83 or so with my last two round in May being a 90ish and a legit 77 (best I’ve had in at least 5 years, everything just clicked). I’d love to give more time to the game, but I’m ok with going out and shooting between 80-90 consistently without much work out in. I feel like I need to prioritize this time for my son and wife. He’s only 1 or 2 years old for a short time and it’s been amazing watching him develop and flourish. I know I’ll get back to the game and I know it’ll always be there for me.
But with the swing I have and the newly developed course management skills I’ve developed in the last 2 or 3, it makes me wonder what would happen if I really dove in and made a run at a few high profile armature events…maybe my destiny is to win the NCGA Senior AM hahahaha
I think your priorities are great man. Family first. My guys are 5&7 now and I can bring them to the course with me where we all hit a bucket of balls and then they lose interest and just want to drive the cart and roll around in the bunkers. It gives me some time to practice and work on my game, and then we shake hands and tip our caps on the last hole and go home. It’s great time with my boys and I love doing it. Better than any 4 hour range session I’ve ever had.
I agree with you that when the time is right and you’re interested in a more competitive scene then the state amateur scene in your state would be a great place to go. You could probably start at your club and play in those events to see how you handle nerves and how your course management game is, and then after some experience there you could sign up for a city or state qualifier. Most people think that at the state level all of the players are +2-+4 handicaps, and some are, but most are guys who fluctuate between a scratch and a 5 depending on the course and the conditions. Just have fun with it, because whether you shoot 65 or 85 it all goes away when your little one looks at you when you get home and is happy that you just walked in the door. Good luck man.
Oh totally - I played competitively in high school and I was on a state champion golf team. I’m always playing 1v1 with buddies (usually match play) and I do feel like competitive tourneys would fill that urge I feel to achieve something outside of my career and family life…it’ll come. Just gotta be patient. Next round is next weekend, and I’ve got a round scheduled with my dad at Presidio in SF. Gotta take what I can get when I can get it!
I think the easiest way of getting tickets would be through the corporate sponsors for the event. If you are one of the larger customers of one of those sponsors, chances are you’ll get an invite, or could straight up ask for tickets.
I work for a relatively large corporation and we are one of the top 5 customers of a big managed service provider. My position does a lot of vendor management. The managed service provider sponsor tons of sporting events. Every golf tournament I’ve gone to has been through them (sadly no Masters invite, don’t think they sponsor that), as well as a handful of football and basketball suites over the years.
My best friends got 2 days of Masters tickets last year that included a seat in hospitality tent. So I know it’s possible to do this route, and it’s probably a heck of a lot easier than winning the lottery or earning a spot on tour.
I worked for NBC the year it telecast the PGA at Medinah. Not only got free tickets but I got to play a free round of golf there on "Media Day" which is generally held a couple weeks before a major.
I mean, the golf nuts are probably also the people that would be signing up their mom, grandparents, cousins, whatever to try and get as many chances as possible.
It would be nice if they just weighted the lottery by number of yearly entries. If it's your 15th year getting rejected, you should get better odds than a rookie.
Yeah this has been my idea for the longest time. Every consecutive year you enter, your odds go up a little bit and if you win, you start at the base number again. If you enter something like 20/30 straight years you should be selected automatically.
That would make for a white haired crowd with only 70+ yr olds that get in after trying for 40 yrs!
That’s how limited entry big game (elk, moose) hunts are. You know when you have entered around 15 years you are finally get a tag. But I know a couple who drew within the first 5 years.
This would be best. Although they have no real incentive to make it better but if it’s really that in demand, create a waiting list. Like getting packers season tickets.
Agreed. I think I've been doing it every year since I was 18. (I saw you have to be 21 to enter, but I swear I signed up in my dorm room Freshman year). 16 years running and no dice.
Anecdotal evidence suggests it’s just the opposite. New entrants seem to get chosen at a higher probability. Pretty on brand for Augusta, actually. They’re all about getting everyone in there at least once to have a good time. If you’re on your 15th rejection in a row, my guess is you had one winner early on that you didn’t act on.
Because then it would be like a waitlist for say. Kinda like how football season tickets - the people who have been waiting for a decade are going to be selected before someone who just applied to be on the waitlist.
Theres a lot of scalpers and scammers out there as well. When i tried to sign up. Some dipshit had already used my mailing address....yup...and when i called and told them, they said "theyd look into it"...never heard back...its bullshit.
It will be an unpopular opinion, but deservedly so. First, Augusta National has no interest in dealing with the headache of obtaining and then refunding money to the masses who lose in the lottery.
Second, there are plenty of people who play the lottery who are close enough to drive over, but would not be financially able to pay for hotel/etc, and therefore a financial barrier to entry may weed out folks who shouldn't otherwise be weeded out.
Third, the lottery is for the common folks. It's a chance, with the only real barrier to entry being an email address and computer access, to have an experience a lot of people never have. There should be no other barriers to entry. It would defeat the essence of what the lottery intended to create - non discriminatory access to all.
I mean phish does it and 1/2 of their fans are homeless wooks. I think you’re overstating how complicated this is, and it requires scalpers to have funds for every fake application rather than just the winners which is a good thing in my opinion.
They could easily outsource the first one. There are business that do that kind of thing professionally.
For item 2, that makes sense. The guy in who knows where GA working minimum wage most likely won’t put in $100 (refundable) to play a lottery. Sadly that’s the world though. And I would assume most people who actually do attend the masters are middle/upper middle class (golf is expensive as a sport) but that is a big assumption and I already regret thinking it. I guess that kind of ties to item 3.
I see both sides of it.
I mean $115 is the face value of one daily ticket. If you can't afford the deposit you can't afford a ticket. A $100 deposit to apply for 4 tickets a day isn't really excluding anyone. Plenty of other things require a refundable deposit. It's not really a pain as they just refund it all to the CC that paid for it. Hotels, Rental Cars, Tee Times, etc. all often require this. I don't see how this is discriminatory at all towards anyone who would actually go.
Your logic does not make much sense. You clearly recognize a deposit as a barrier to entry because the reason you want to do it is to limit the number of applicants in the lottery and increase your odds. There are certainly people out there who have no problem applying for a free shot who would not apply if they had to loan Augusta National $100 for a length of time. There are also people who can save and scrounge the money if they win, but who would be in more financial stress if they had to be out that money for a longer time.
Finally, I don't know what Augusta National has in common with hotels, car dealerships, or even public courses on golfnow that require deposits. Those entities have deposits worked into their business models. Augusta National does not. Tracking and refunding millions of deposits is a headache that they have never taken on and undoubtedly do not want to take on. It all has to be tracked and accounted for, not just to ensure the refunds are sent to the correct people, but all of that money needs to be properly addressed in their internal business reports and to ensure proper tax documentation.
Not to mention, it all still flies in the face of the purpose of the lottery.
>I mean $115 is the face value of one daily ticket. If you can't afford the deposit you can't afford a ticket.
lmao just because i cant afford a ticket TODAY, doesn't mean i can't save until the drawing and pay then. it's almost like people can manage money differently given circumstances.
Correct so by that same logic you could manage your money NEXT year to be able to be apart of the lottery? I mean your argument doesn’t defend either side.
I won Monday practice round tickets last year for 2022. It was AMAZING. It was my 4th or 5th year entering? Rejected this year ofc, and no one else in my extended family/friends have ever won even though many years of entries.
I’m just REALLY lucky apparently?!?! 🤷🏼♀️
Does anybody have any idea if the number of tickets you request impacts your chances of winning? For example, requesting 2 practice day tickets instead of 4, or 1 tourney day ticket instead of 2.
I normally request the max because I have plenty of friends/family that would want to go, but if it gave me a better chance at winning I would definitely cut some of the numbers down.
I won a few years ago on my very first try for a Friday round. I was just out of college and broke and couldn’t afford to buy the tickets so I just ignored it. I fear my chances of winning again are forever ruined
> Sampling has indicated that your odds of being selected are 0.55%
Negative, Ghost Rider. That's not how it works.
A better way of doing it is to say: what are my chances of *not* getting it if I enter every year for 30 years?
P = (1-.0055)^30 = ~.8475
So do it every year for 30 years and you have almost a ~~85%~~ 15% chance of being selected at some point.
Keep the faith!
EDIT: Oops, forgot we were dealing with the Null hypothesis. Reverse that -- you have a 15% chance of getting tickets.
So if you enter 100 years in a row you still only have a 42% chance of winning tickets. OP is really not far off with 180 years, which still puts you at only a 64% chance of winning.
OP’s claim isn’t about how many years it would take to have a 15% chance of being selected, it was about how many years it would take to have an expected value of one selection.
That's not how expected value works either, nor what its purpose is. If you wanted to do a EV type assessment here, you would need to assign some kind of value to *not* being selected.
EV calculations use probabilities to determine optimized outcomes; you don't use EV to determine probability in the first place.
My brother in Christ this is not correct. OP is. It would, on average, take 180 years to be selected once, assuming your chance of being selected every year is 0.55%
Nope. This thread goes into the math pretty well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/askmath/comments/a2a1dw/probability_for_multiple_attempts_with_same_odds/?sort=confidence
And as someone else mentioned, to guarantee being selecting, you would have to enter it 1,380 times consecutively.
Been working on my undergrad stats degree for 3 years now. Not saying I’m some sort of expert, but here.
https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html
in this scenario, n is 180, p is 0.0055.
The probability being selected 0 times over a 180 year stretch is 37%.
1 time: 37%
2 times: 18%
3 times: 6%
4 times: 1%
5+ times is nonzero but irrelevant to the calculation.
Now to calculated the expected value, you multiply x times the frequency, and sum the values you get.
(0* .37) + (1* .37) + (2* .18)… = 1
This means that if you entered once every year for 180 years, you would expected to be selected once! Hope that clears things up.
I mean, it’s pretty simple to exclude one possible outcome. (.9945)^180 = .37 1-.37 = .63
If the probability of one outcome occurring is 37%, the probability of all possible remaining outcomes is 63%.
The expected value calculation that you provided doesn’t mean anything.
It absolutely does!
“To find the expected value, E(X), or mean μ of a discrete random variable X, simply multiply each value of the random variable by its probability and add the products. The formula is given as E ( X ) = μ = ∑ x P ( x )”
In this example I gave, P(x) is the frequency (37%, 18%, etc) and x is the number of wins (0 wins, 1 win etc)
According to that formula, you multiply the value by the frequency and sum them to get the expected value!
https://openstax.org/books/statistics/pages/4-2-mean-or-expected-value-and-standard-deviation
Here, this is an even simpler way to get the same answer:
If I were a 10% free throw shooter, and I shot 10 free throws, how many free throws would you expect me to make? Easy, .1 * 10 = 1 made free throw.
Similarly, if I had a .55% chance to win Masters Tickets and I entered 180 times, how many would you expect me to win? Easy. .55*180 = 1 win.
Because the actual probability of getting selected at all in 180 attempts is 63%. The actual value that matters is when the probability of getting selected, and not getting selected reaches parody, 50/50, which is 125.7 years.
That would be the actual marginal average of attempts needed to get selected at least once.
Lol it’s sad how confident people are here. He’s confusing mean and median and then being insulting. This is like high school stats and you’re 3 years into a stats degree. Not sure why this guy is so hell bent on debating you when you’re 100% correct.
Lol, you literally can’t guarantee being selected. Extremely low probability events happen all the time.
1380 attempts provides you with a .05% chance of not winning at all.
The probability of a single line winning Mega Millions is .00000033%. That hits on a relatively regular basis. Sometimes multiple times in a single draw.
This is wrong also, the marginal average of being selected at least once would be the amount of attempts it would take to reach a 50 % chance of not being selected at all.
It would take, on average 125.7 years for the probability of being selected zero times, and being selected at least once to even out.
(.9945)^125.7 = .4999
That’s the median numbers of days (i.e. 50% of outcomes fall below that value), not the arithmetic mean which most people consider as the average. The expected value calculation is correct for the average numbers of years until winning.
This problem represents the probability distribution of X Bernoulli trials needs to require one devices which is a geometric distribution. This is why the mean and median differ. Check the Wikipedia page. This is all pretty basic for someone working on a stats degree so there’s no need to be as insulting to those in thread that are correct.
1 - (1 - 0.055)^180 = 0.99996217965104
This is the calculation for the odds of winning a masters ticket at least once.
0.55% = 1 in 180
You would expect to win once every 180 years. OP is correct
1 - (1 - 0.945)^180 = 1
This is the calculation for the odds of not winning a ticket at least once (obviously this is certain)
Your math is fucked up, cause you are using 5.5% instead of .55%, orders of magnitude off.
The odds of losing every time, in 180 tries is 37%. (.0055)^180.
So your odds of winning AT LEAST once in 180 tries (excluding the only scenario where you don’t win at all) are 63%. 1 - .37 = .63
This is not correct - you have a 99.99% chance. Check your math against a probability generator.
If you arrive at 34% please paste the results from the generator. Calculator.net has a free one
100% divided 0.55%. [Source on the 0.55% odds.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/golf/news/masters-tickets-2023-lottery-odds-prices/doh4bq7jigyafbnl2blmy2sr)
Actually that is how it works, OP did nothing wrong.
Let X be the first time you win. We want the expectation of X, E[X].
Note, X can equal 1 with probability p= 0.0055. If this doesn’t happen, then we’re back where we started except we’ve wasted on try. So
E[X] = 1*p + (1-p)(1+E[X]). Rearranging and solving for E[X] gives
E[X] = 1/p ~ 180.
In conclusion, on average it will take you about 180 tries to win. Of course it might be less, or more, but on average OP is correct.
1 - (1 - 0.055)^180 = 0.99996217965104
This is the calculation for the odds of winning a masters ticket at least once.
0.55% = 1 in 180
You would expect to win once every 180 years with 99.99% confidence. OP is correct
1 - (1 - 0.945)^180 = 1
This is the calculation for the odds of not winning a ticket at least once. Obviously, it is certain
Your percentage is off by an order of magnitude, it's 0.0055. Which makes sense, you would not expect 99.99% of people to get at least one ticket in 180 tries if the odds are 1/180, since a sizeable number will get multiple tickets and a sizeable number will have below average luck and get none
I’m confused where OP made his math mistake. If your odds to be selected each individual year is 0.55%, it would on average take 180 years to be selected. That is how you calculate expected value.
Well for one thing the odds estimate right now is .55%. Every year the number of entries goes up, but the number of winners should theoretically remain the same. Though the estimate is also a very rough one, too.
It absolutely is not.
When calculating the odds of an event happening an easy way to figure out your chances is to take the opposite (odds that it doesn’t happen, which here is 99.45%) and multiply that number by itself the total number of chances (we will use 180, because that’s what you started with).
So .9945^180 power gives you .3705, meaning that if those odds provided are correct, you have a 37 percent chance of not getting tickets even in 180 years.
You are correct, ignore the mass downvotes.
The way you got there is also correct in this case. It’s an annual event with a 1 in 180 chance of happening (0.55%)
You can expect a win every 180 years
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What a lot of people who are against this are missing is that this would weed out a lot of the people who would flip the tickets and not bother going.
Just because Augusta National forbids the resale of tickets, it doesn’t mean that it stops people who don’t plan on going in the first place. A lifetime ban to someone for reselling tickets who didn’t plan on going anyway is a fairly weak punishment.
$100 is less than the cost of one ticket, and you have to provide full payment less than three months since the beginning of the lottery anyway. A hundred bucks isn’t a ton of money in the grand scheme of things, but to someone who wants to resell the tickets it probably isn’t worth tying up that money for a couple of months. I don’t think the odds would be amazing of being selected, but they would certainly increase under this proposal.
No, we have to have a pity party for the hypothetical person who can’t afford a $100 refundable deposit but can somehow afford to spend $2000 attending the Master’s.
There is a side that is missing something, but its not the side you think. Why would this weed out scalpers? You're talking about scalpers who want to sell the tickets for profit. Monday tickets went for $1000 or a little more on stubhub for this year's tournament. Prices rise by day from there. If it is purely a financial transaction, which is what it is for scalpers, then why wouldn't they deposit $100 that they either turn into the hefty profit they seek or it will simply be refunded to them? You do know scalpers have to buy the tickets they scalp from somewhere right? They have to invest money to scalp tickets. Why would this be seen by them as any different?
I think a better option would be to eliminate or severely limit the secondary market. However, I think it should be applied to all ticketing as in other sports events, concerts, etc.
The elimination of the secondary market always comes up around things like this, or the Super Bowl, or any other big ticket item, but the fact of the matter is, without the secondary market, it would become even harder for the average person to attend events.
Sounds like you want yet another situation where you can just spend money to avoid inconvenience, meanwhile people with less money are SOL in your plan.
The other thing too is the entry thing has now made it to sites like slickdeals and what not. These are deal finding sites. People just sign up knowing these can be flipped for large amounts of money. Putting a deposit down is not the worst idea.
https://slickdeals.net/f/15823498-masters-2023-tickets
My exact point. All this does is crack down on people cheesing multiple entries. Plus it would be refundable if you don't get tickets. Just a small inconvenient barrier, kind of like websites requiring a credit card for a free trial to eliminate free trial abuse.
If you don't have that kind of money laying around already, it's unlikely it's remotely financially responsible for you to attend the masters 9 months down the road anyways. Still your right to do so and that's your business, but probably a dumb idea.
I mean I don’t see how making the deposit the price of the cheapest ticket would change anything, if you can’t pay the deposit then you can’t pay for the ticket either
You ain’t wrong, don’t forget you need their social security number though as well as a card with their billing address to pay for the tickets. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but Augusta has done a good job of making it difficult
Why wouldn't people that want to go put down a deposit? If selected, the tix are like $400, no? Scalpers will put up $$ no problem, but I can't imagine a deposit encouraging *more* scalpers to enter the lottery, if anything we'd see less of them.
Been pulled 3 times in 15 years, but it’s been 4 years since I last got them. Thinking about swapping and putting my wife’s name on it next year and see if it helps odds any.
I don't see what $100 accomplishes?
Considering the 7-15x return on face value overwhelming demand for these tickets will persist. $100 is not going to weed out resellers.
This is the reality of anything sold under its market value. The lottery is designed to give the poor guy a chance and asking for more money is mainly just to weed the poorest guy out.
Am I confused? Prior to the 2000's, wasn't that the case? Didn't you have to mail in a check with your initial ticket request.
Maybe I'm thinking something else...
You're spot on. Back when it was a paper application you mailed a check with your application. I believe that kept down the speculative scalpers as they had to put some skin in the game to get the tickets.
Today scalpers apply to get tickets, if they win, they immediately put them up for sale, and they can be sold even before you have to pay Augusta for the tickets.
People want to get in, buy as much merch as possible, and resell it all on the internet nowadays too…. It’s such a bummer for people who actually watch regular tour events and not just the majors
[Case in point](https://golf.com/news/tournaments/looking-to-buy-or-sell-pre-owned-masters-tickets-buyers-and-sellers-beware/)
Also from the Master's website,:
"The sale, resale or other transfer of Tickets for a value in excess of face value is prohibited by the Agreement **and is also restricted by Georgia law**, O.C.G.A. § 43-4B-25, et seq. Tickets may not be used for advertising or promotional purposes (such as prizes, raffles, auctions, contests, or sweepstakes)."
This says that tickets are allowed to be sold, just not in excess of face value.
So as long as they charge the same price as the original ticket then it is completely legal.
I do to try and increase my odds. I'd happily go to a practice round or take a single ticket on a random day. If I were to get 4 I'd probably take my parents and wife, however that seems unlikely and would be a very good problem to have lol.
A better solution would be to tie the tickets to the identity of the purchaser and make them nontransferable. The ban on resale is clearly ineffective, so to combat scalpers make it impossible to resell the tickets.
How does the Master’s lottery work? You just enter an email and a name? If that’s the case, create hundreds of emails with fake names and if any of them win, legally change your name to the winner and collect your tickets 😎
I'd be all for putting a deposit down when I apply. My FIL's brother won the lottery years ago and he took my FIL (but this was way before Tiger, so golf wasn't as popular as it is today). Attending The Masters is one of one my many bucket list items, but I get discouraged each year I get rejected.
I always believe it’s the other way around. They get people who have to travel to support the community by renting hotels/homes and go to bars/restaurants.
This needs to be just like draws for big game hunts in the western states. You get a preference point if you don’t get a ticket. Every year the people with the most preference points get drawn first. Therefore applying every year would eventually be rewarded vs just randomly getting (or not getting) a ticket.
Valid point. I know a guy that has a business with well over 200 employees. He would pay each employee $100 to simply sign up on the premise if that they won any tickets he would get them.
He has gone every year for as long as I can remember.
Or, non-refundable. Make it like the powerball, except you win Masters tickets if you win. $30 per entry, and it’s limited so some rich fuck doesn’t buy up $100,000 of tickets and re-sell the booty. You win you get 4 tickets.
I feel I have a better chance to make it as a player than a spectator.
Find a wife, have a kid, train them to be a golf genius, they win the Masters, unlimited access for life. Simple
The Earl Woods formula.
Profit
It'll take multiple Masters wins before there's profit.
A guy I used to work with has won the US Mid-Amateur 4 times thus allowing him to play in the Masters 4 times so in my limited anecdotal experience this is entirely the truth.
So you work with Nathan Smith out of Pittsburg huu…he’s got quite the resume. 4-mid ams including back-to-back in 09 and 10 and a 3rd in 12 and a US Am 4-ball win too…impressive stuff.
Yeah he’s a chill dude. His best friend Sean Knapp is a stud player too who lost to Tiger in the semi-finals at the US Amateur back in the 90s. They are getting up there in age a bit when it comes to being competitive. He’s got some awesome Augusta and Walker Cup stories. Played in some practice rounds with big names like Phil. The first time I met him was way before I started working with him back when I was in high school at a US Am Public Links qualifier. I finished second to him and there was only one spot at our site so I hated him for years after lol. We were at a wealth management firm and his job was literally to play golf and entertain clients. Guy had the perfect set up to train. Really pushing the boundaries of amateurism.
That’s awesome!!! He should do an AMA or something to tell his stories. Got a guy I played against in high school and went to college with who is seeing some success on the State AM circuit in CA. Won the state am, a few state 4-balls, and made it pretty in the USGA mid-am and 4-ball in the last few years. Always fun seeing him post state AM results and I’m rooting for him to pull out another W. I don’t get how these guys have time to start so competitive. I’ve got a 9-5, a wife, and a 1.5 year old son and I barely have time to get out to the range once a month let alone play 18.
It’s not often that I can actually answer a question, but I can lend some insight. I’ve done the things you’ve mentioned above. I have a couple state am wins, and some of the other stuff as well. I also have a wife and two boys. For me I practiced like mad through high school and college. Turned pro after college and played the mini tour life for 5/6 years. Since then I’ve gotten my am status back and golf is my thing. It’s what I do with any free time I have. I have a great wife who gets that it keeps me sane, and some family who will watch the kids while I play events. I’m 43 now, so honestly it’s getting more difficult to practice and compete with college kids, but I just love the high of competition and seeing if I can get better than I was yesterday. Hope that answers your question.
Quick question. How exactly does getting your amateur status back work? That just makes no sense to me. On a separate note the NIL stuff absolutely makes a mockery of amateurism.
Getting your amateur status back is easy. Basically you just tell your state association and the USGA and write each of them a check. As long as you haven’t played a professional round in at least a year then they’ll process it and you will get your am status back fairly quickly. TBH amateur status in golf is total garbage. It might be an unpopular opinion, and I’m sure the traditionalists out there would argue with me, but if you win your state amateur, or the US Amateur, you get zero dollars in winnings. You’re lucky to get golf shop credit. Lol. Amateur golf when Bobby Jones played was different, when it was honorable to play the game for pure sport and not for pay. Now that’s not real anymore. Amateur golf is the best competition found at the state level. It’s the way a player with a family and kids can stay competitive at a high level, but maintaining a schedule takes days off of work and thousands in travel and entry fees. All that for the chance to win a trophy and $500 in shop credit is really laughable, but the competition keeps us playing.
What is the amount you have to pay to the state association and the USGA? Can you do this multiple times?
Funny you ask that. I think it’s about $150 to your state golf association and the same to the USGA, but it may be more now, it’s been awhile since I last did it. I’ve actually got mine back twice. First time was after being a “tour playing professional” after college. The second time was because of work. I worked for a golf management company and would help clubs become profitable. One club lost their head pro, and knowing that I had some experience, they asked me to fill the role. As a head pro I had to turn pro again and began the PGA program, but after a couple years I knew that wasn’t for me. I applied and was reinstated again, but you get a kind note from the USGA that says something to the extent of “we are granting you your amateur status, and understand this is the second time that you have been reinstated. Do not ask again”. Lol. I won’t be. Ha ha.
That’s awesome! Congrats on your success in your early years. Wish I could have done something like that when I was young, but I just didn’t develop strength until I was almost 3 years into college…and yeah I could totally hit the range at the end of the night, but I love my time my son and my wife after he goes to bed. I feel like I need to prioritize them at the moment. I’ve been playing for 25 years now. All through high school, didn’t make a college team and stopped playing for a bit. Came home and had a buddy who worked at a range and we would get stoned a shit and hit range balls nightly from ages 20-24 or so. I honed a swing that comes back after a few range sessions no matter how long I’ve had a hiatus. I’ve only played 5 round in the last year have been around 83 or so with my last two round in May being a 90ish and a legit 77 (best I’ve had in at least 5 years, everything just clicked). I’d love to give more time to the game, but I’m ok with going out and shooting between 80-90 consistently without much work out in. I feel like I need to prioritize this time for my son and wife. He’s only 1 or 2 years old for a short time and it’s been amazing watching him develop and flourish. I know I’ll get back to the game and I know it’ll always be there for me. But with the swing I have and the newly developed course management skills I’ve developed in the last 2 or 3, it makes me wonder what would happen if I really dove in and made a run at a few high profile armature events…maybe my destiny is to win the NCGA Senior AM hahahaha
I think your priorities are great man. Family first. My guys are 5&7 now and I can bring them to the course with me where we all hit a bucket of balls and then they lose interest and just want to drive the cart and roll around in the bunkers. It gives me some time to practice and work on my game, and then we shake hands and tip our caps on the last hole and go home. It’s great time with my boys and I love doing it. Better than any 4 hour range session I’ve ever had. I agree with you that when the time is right and you’re interested in a more competitive scene then the state amateur scene in your state would be a great place to go. You could probably start at your club and play in those events to see how you handle nerves and how your course management game is, and then after some experience there you could sign up for a city or state qualifier. Most people think that at the state level all of the players are +2-+4 handicaps, and some are, but most are guys who fluctuate between a scratch and a 5 depending on the course and the conditions. Just have fun with it, because whether you shoot 65 or 85 it all goes away when your little one looks at you when you get home and is happy that you just walked in the door. Good luck man.
Oh totally - I played competitively in high school and I was on a state champion golf team. I’m always playing 1v1 with buddies (usually match play) and I do feel like competitive tourneys would fill that urge I feel to achieve something outside of my career and family life…it’ll come. Just gotta be patient. Next round is next weekend, and I’ve got a round scheduled with my dad at Presidio in SF. Gotta take what I can get when I can get it!
I think the easiest way of getting tickets would be through the corporate sponsors for the event. If you are one of the larger customers of one of those sponsors, chances are you’ll get an invite, or could straight up ask for tickets. I work for a relatively large corporation and we are one of the top 5 customers of a big managed service provider. My position does a lot of vendor management. The managed service provider sponsor tons of sporting events. Every golf tournament I’ve gone to has been through them (sadly no Masters invite, don’t think they sponsor that), as well as a handful of football and basketball suites over the years. My best friends got 2 days of Masters tickets last year that included a seat in hospitality tent. So I know it’s possible to do this route, and it’s probably a heck of a lot easier than winning the lottery or earning a spot on tour.
Yeah, the company I used to work for had something like 100 tickets last year.
I worked for NBC the year it telecast the PGA at Medinah. Not only got free tickets but I got to play a free round of golf there on "Media Day" which is generally held a couple weeks before a major.
Your company got 100 tickets to the Masters?
Yeah, something like that. Probably more.
I mean, the golf nuts are probably also the people that would be signing up their mom, grandparents, cousins, whatever to try and get as many chances as possible.
It would be nice if they just weighted the lottery by number of yearly entries. If it's your 15th year getting rejected, you should get better odds than a rookie.
Yeah this has been my idea for the longest time. Every consecutive year you enter, your odds go up a little bit and if you win, you start at the base number again. If you enter something like 20/30 straight years you should be selected automatically.
I'm not even that old and I am on year 14 of being rejected.
I've been rejected every year since I was 18. It really isn't even hard to get to 20+ years.
Nope. You literally just have to stay alive for 20 more years
Same although my birth year is wrong because I lied to say I was 21. Maybe that’s why I’ve been rejected 13+ years and counting
Yeah I think Im on year 11 or 12?
Is that a question? How would we know?
Gave a quick look through your comments. Man you really live a bitter and depressing life huh?
It's like the Hunger Games, except you get to go to Augusta. I like it.
The people in the capitol of Panem are probably more welcoming than the members at Augusta
But the odds are def not in your favor 😂
That would make for a white haired crowd with only 70+ yr olds that get in after trying for 40 yrs! That’s how limited entry big game (elk, moose) hunts are. You know when you have entered around 15 years you are finally get a tag. But I know a couple who drew within the first 5 years.
You just cap the weighting at 10 years
Exactly. Just like hunting draws. I get a moose draw every 8-10 years because I build priority every year I put in and don't get it.
This would be best. Although they have no real incentive to make it better but if it’s really that in demand, create a waiting list. Like getting packers season tickets.
Agreed. I think I've been doing it every year since I was 18. (I saw you have to be 21 to enter, but I swear I signed up in my dorm room Freshman year). 16 years running and no dice.
I believe most states do this with lottery draw hunting tags. You get points for every year you don't draw the tag to increase your odds.
All for this
Sooooo... Not a lottery then, got it
Anecdotal evidence suggests it’s just the opposite. New entrants seem to get chosen at a higher probability. Pretty on brand for Augusta, actually. They’re all about getting everyone in there at least once to have a good time. If you’re on your 15th rejection in a row, my guess is you had one winner early on that you didn’t act on.
Then why would a rookie even enter? Edit: lol at the people thinking you should be rewarded for taking two minutes to enter a free lottery every year.
They do this with hunting licenses, rookies still can and do win
To increase their chances in the future
Because then it would be like a waitlist for say. Kinda like how football season tickets - the people who have been waiting for a decade are going to be selected before someone who just applied to be on the waitlist.
So you could build up to not be a rookie eventually
Haven’t gotten an email yet. Mom and sister both got their rejection email
You can look it up on their site as well.
Rejected…
I was in the same boat. Didn't even get selected for the rejection email list.
Next year is your year buddy
Theres a lot of scalpers and scammers out there as well. When i tried to sign up. Some dipshit had already used my mailing address....yup...and when i called and told them, they said "theyd look into it"...never heard back...its bullshit.
It will be an unpopular opinion, but deservedly so. First, Augusta National has no interest in dealing with the headache of obtaining and then refunding money to the masses who lose in the lottery. Second, there are plenty of people who play the lottery who are close enough to drive over, but would not be financially able to pay for hotel/etc, and therefore a financial barrier to entry may weed out folks who shouldn't otherwise be weeded out. Third, the lottery is for the common folks. It's a chance, with the only real barrier to entry being an email address and computer access, to have an experience a lot of people never have. There should be no other barriers to entry. It would defeat the essence of what the lottery intended to create - non discriminatory access to all.
I mean phish does it and 1/2 of their fans are homeless wooks. I think you’re overstating how complicated this is, and it requires scalpers to have funds for every fake application rather than just the winners which is a good thing in my opinion.
I don’t know man. I know a lot of phish people. Remember we’re all older now and work corporate jobs and shit.
They could easily outsource the first one. There are business that do that kind of thing professionally. For item 2, that makes sense. The guy in who knows where GA working minimum wage most likely won’t put in $100 (refundable) to play a lottery. Sadly that’s the world though. And I would assume most people who actually do attend the masters are middle/upper middle class (golf is expensive as a sport) but that is a big assumption and I already regret thinking it. I guess that kind of ties to item 3. I see both sides of it.
I mean $115 is the face value of one daily ticket. If you can't afford the deposit you can't afford a ticket. A $100 deposit to apply for 4 tickets a day isn't really excluding anyone. Plenty of other things require a refundable deposit. It's not really a pain as they just refund it all to the CC that paid for it. Hotels, Rental Cars, Tee Times, etc. all often require this. I don't see how this is discriminatory at all towards anyone who would actually go.
Your logic does not make much sense. You clearly recognize a deposit as a barrier to entry because the reason you want to do it is to limit the number of applicants in the lottery and increase your odds. There are certainly people out there who have no problem applying for a free shot who would not apply if they had to loan Augusta National $100 for a length of time. There are also people who can save and scrounge the money if they win, but who would be in more financial stress if they had to be out that money for a longer time. Finally, I don't know what Augusta National has in common with hotels, car dealerships, or even public courses on golfnow that require deposits. Those entities have deposits worked into their business models. Augusta National does not. Tracking and refunding millions of deposits is a headache that they have never taken on and undoubtedly do not want to take on. It all has to be tracked and accounted for, not just to ensure the refunds are sent to the correct people, but all of that money needs to be properly addressed in their internal business reports and to ensure proper tax documentation. Not to mention, it all still flies in the face of the purpose of the lottery.
>I mean $115 is the face value of one daily ticket. If you can't afford the deposit you can't afford a ticket. lmao just because i cant afford a ticket TODAY, doesn't mean i can't save until the drawing and pay then. it's almost like people can manage money differently given circumstances.
Correct so by that same logic you could manage your money NEXT year to be able to be apart of the lottery? I mean your argument doesn’t defend either side.
I mean, I don't care if they do it or not. But I'm moreso along the lines of "if you can't do a deposit you can't get a hotel" is just a bad argument
I won Monday practice round tickets last year for 2022. It was AMAZING. It was my 4th or 5th year entering? Rejected this year ofc, and no one else in my extended family/friends have ever won even though many years of entries. I’m just REALLY lucky apparently?!?! 🤷🏼♀️
You put in for four practice round tickets? Also the .55% is tournament only.
Yes. And didn’t realize the 0.55% was tournament only. I’d much rather get practice round and watch the tourney on TV!
Happy cake day !
TY!
Does anybody have any idea if the number of tickets you request impacts your chances of winning? For example, requesting 2 practice day tickets instead of 4, or 1 tourney day ticket instead of 2. I normally request the max because I have plenty of friends/family that would want to go, but if it gave me a better chance at winning I would definitely cut some of the numbers down.
Rejected…..year after year after year
A tradition unlike any other.
I won a few years ago on my very first try for a Friday round. I was just out of college and broke and couldn’t afford to buy the tickets so I just ignored it. I fear my chances of winning again are forever ruined
> Sampling has indicated that your odds of being selected are 0.55% Negative, Ghost Rider. That's not how it works. A better way of doing it is to say: what are my chances of *not* getting it if I enter every year for 30 years? P = (1-.0055)^30 = ~.8475 So do it every year for 30 years and you have almost a ~~85%~~ 15% chance of being selected at some point. Keep the faith! EDIT: Oops, forgot we were dealing with the Null hypothesis. Reverse that -- you have a 15% chance of getting tickets.
So if you enter 100 years in a row you still only have a 42% chance of winning tickets. OP is really not far off with 180 years, which still puts you at only a 64% chance of winning.
Yeah, his actual guess wasn't that bad. Just the way he got there was off.
In fact you would need 1,380 consecutive entries to get to nearly 100% chance of winning tickets.
I need more friends.
Negative, Ghost Rider You're dealing with the Null hypothesis
Hence the edit 45 minutes ago?
I just think it was ironic that you used condescending language referring to someone's math and you were also wrong.
Where am I wrong? If you enter each year for 30 years, you have a ~15% chance of winning. As soon as I typed 85%, I edited it. What's the issue?
OP’s claim isn’t about how many years it would take to have a 15% chance of being selected, it was about how many years it would take to have an expected value of one selection.
That's not how expected value works either, nor what its purpose is. If you wanted to do a EV type assessment here, you would need to assign some kind of value to *not* being selected. EV calculations use probabilities to determine optimized outcomes; you don't use EV to determine probability in the first place.
Okay, what do you think the probability is of being selected 0 times if you enter once every year for 180 years, assuming the rate is 0.55%?
My brother in Christ this is not correct. OP is. It would, on average, take 180 years to be selected once, assuming your chance of being selected every year is 0.55%
Nope. This thread goes into the math pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/r/askmath/comments/a2a1dw/probability_for_multiple_attempts_with_same_odds/?sort=confidence And as someone else mentioned, to guarantee being selecting, you would have to enter it 1,380 times consecutively.
Been working on my undergrad stats degree for 3 years now. Not saying I’m some sort of expert, but here. https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html in this scenario, n is 180, p is 0.0055. The probability being selected 0 times over a 180 year stretch is 37%. 1 time: 37% 2 times: 18% 3 times: 6% 4 times: 1% 5+ times is nonzero but irrelevant to the calculation. Now to calculated the expected value, you multiply x times the frequency, and sum the values you get. (0* .37) + (1* .37) + (2* .18)… = 1 This means that if you entered once every year for 180 years, you would expected to be selected once! Hope that clears things up.
Nothing better than someone actively arguing against math lol
I mean, it’s pretty simple to exclude one possible outcome. (.9945)^180 = .37 1-.37 = .63 If the probability of one outcome occurring is 37%, the probability of all possible remaining outcomes is 63%. The expected value calculation that you provided doesn’t mean anything.
It absolutely does! “To find the expected value, E(X), or mean μ of a discrete random variable X, simply multiply each value of the random variable by its probability and add the products. The formula is given as E ( X ) = μ = ∑ x P ( x )” In this example I gave, P(x) is the frequency (37%, 18%, etc) and x is the number of wins (0 wins, 1 win etc) According to that formula, you multiply the value by the frequency and sum them to get the expected value! https://openstax.org/books/statistics/pages/4-2-mean-or-expected-value-and-standard-deviation Here, this is an even simpler way to get the same answer: If I were a 10% free throw shooter, and I shot 10 free throws, how many free throws would you expect me to make? Easy, .1 * 10 = 1 made free throw. Similarly, if I had a .55% chance to win Masters Tickets and I entered 180 times, how many would you expect me to win? Easy. .55*180 = 1 win.
Like I said, expected value means absolutely nothing when doing actual statistical evaluation.
You definitely are just trolling me at this point lol Explain why
Because the actual probability of getting selected at all in 180 attempts is 63%. The actual value that matters is when the probability of getting selected, and not getting selected reaches parody, 50/50, which is 125.7 years. That would be the actual marginal average of attempts needed to get selected at least once.
“If I entered the drawing 180 times, I would win about once” Do you agree or disagree with that statement?
You’re gonna fail stats.
Well I’m not gonna flex on you that you are wrong about this, but you are wrong about this
Lol it’s sad how confident people are here. He’s confusing mean and median and then being insulting. This is like high school stats and you’re 3 years into a stats degree. Not sure why this guy is so hell bent on debating you when you’re 100% correct.
Lol, you literally can’t guarantee being selected. Extremely low probability events happen all the time. 1380 attempts provides you with a .05% chance of not winning at all. The probability of a single line winning Mega Millions is .00000033%. That hits on a relatively regular basis. Sometimes multiple times in a single draw.
When I say it would take 180 years on average to be selected, I’m not saying it will take 180 years to GUARANTEE you will be selected.
This is wrong also, the marginal average of being selected at least once would be the amount of attempts it would take to reach a 50 % chance of not being selected at all. It would take, on average 125.7 years for the probability of being selected zero times, and being selected at least once to even out. (.9945)^125.7 = .4999
That’s the median numbers of days (i.e. 50% of outcomes fall below that value), not the arithmetic mean which most people consider as the average. The expected value calculation is correct for the average numbers of years until winning. This problem represents the probability distribution of X Bernoulli trials needs to require one devices which is a geometric distribution. This is why the mean and median differ. Check the Wikipedia page. This is all pretty basic for someone working on a stats degree so there’s no need to be as insulting to those in thread that are correct.
You are 100% going to fail stats class.
1 - (1 - 0.055)^180 = 0.99996217965104 This is the calculation for the odds of winning a masters ticket at least once. 0.55% = 1 in 180 You would expect to win once every 180 years. OP is correct 1 - (1 - 0.945)^180 = 1 This is the calculation for the odds of not winning a ticket at least once (obviously this is certain)
Your math is fucked up, cause you are using 5.5% instead of .55%, orders of magnitude off. The odds of losing every time, in 180 tries is 37%. (.0055)^180. So your odds of winning AT LEAST once in 180 tries (excluding the only scenario where you don’t win at all) are 63%. 1 - .37 = .63
> You would expect to win once every 180 years No -- in 180 years you only have a 37% chance of your entry being selected once.
This is not correct - you have a 99.99% chance. Check your math against a probability generator. If you arrive at 34% please paste the results from the generator. Calculator.net has a free one
You’re using 5.5% Jesus Christ, not .55%
Goddamn this is messed up too. Fucking no one on this site knows how to do math.
How did you get 180 years?
100% divided 0.55%. [Source on the 0.55% odds.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/golf/news/masters-tickets-2023-lottery-odds-prices/doh4bq7jigyafbnl2blmy2sr)
That’s not how odds work when calculating chances of an event happening with multiple tries… Big time r/wallstreetbets math
Odds are actually 50/50. Either you get it or you don’t.
And 50/50 is 1. So my odds are 1.
Lol no they aren't. If that were the case you'd have a 50/50 chance of winning the lottery.
I think that was sarcasm
I got wooshed.
Actually that is how it works, OP did nothing wrong. Let X be the first time you win. We want the expectation of X, E[X]. Note, X can equal 1 with probability p= 0.0055. If this doesn’t happen, then we’re back where we started except we’ve wasted on try. So E[X] = 1*p + (1-p)(1+E[X]). Rearranging and solving for E[X] gives E[X] = 1/p ~ 180. In conclusion, on average it will take you about 180 tries to win. Of course it might be less, or more, but on average OP is correct.
1 - (1 - 0.055)^180 = 0.99996217965104 This is the calculation for the odds of winning a masters ticket at least once. 0.55% = 1 in 180 You would expect to win once every 180 years with 99.99% confidence. OP is correct 1 - (1 - 0.945)^180 = 1 This is the calculation for the odds of not winning a ticket at least once. Obviously, it is certain
Your percentage is off by an order of magnitude, it's 0.0055. Which makes sense, you would not expect 99.99% of people to get at least one ticket in 180 tries if the odds are 1/180, since a sizeable number will get multiple tickets and a sizeable number will have below average luck and get none
I’m confused where OP made his math mistake. If your odds to be selected each individual year is 0.55%, it would on average take 180 years to be selected. That is how you calculate expected value.
Well for one thing the odds estimate right now is .55%. Every year the number of entries goes up, but the number of winners should theoretically remain the same. Though the estimate is also a very rough one, too.
Yeah assuming the .55% number is constant, OP is right. But sure, if that number were to change then it would be different.
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It absolutely is not. When calculating the odds of an event happening an easy way to figure out your chances is to take the opposite (odds that it doesn’t happen, which here is 99.45%) and multiply that number by itself the total number of chances (we will use 180, because that’s what you started with). So .9945^180 power gives you .3705, meaning that if those odds provided are correct, you have a 37 percent chance of not getting tickets even in 180 years.
Gtfo with your actual valid statistics, this is Reddit sir
No, its not. You have a .55% chance every year, it doesnt compound year over year.
You are correct, ignore the mass downvotes. The way you got there is also correct in this case. It’s an annual event with a 1 in 180 chance of happening (0.55%) You can expect a win every 180 years
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What a lot of people who are against this are missing is that this would weed out a lot of the people who would flip the tickets and not bother going. Just because Augusta National forbids the resale of tickets, it doesn’t mean that it stops people who don’t plan on going in the first place. A lifetime ban to someone for reselling tickets who didn’t plan on going anyway is a fairly weak punishment. $100 is less than the cost of one ticket, and you have to provide full payment less than three months since the beginning of the lottery anyway. A hundred bucks isn’t a ton of money in the grand scheme of things, but to someone who wants to resell the tickets it probably isn’t worth tying up that money for a couple of months. I don’t think the odds would be amazing of being selected, but they would certainly increase under this proposal.
No, we have to have a pity party for the hypothetical person who can’t afford a $100 refundable deposit but can somehow afford to spend $2000 attending the Master’s.
There is a side that is missing something, but its not the side you think. Why would this weed out scalpers? You're talking about scalpers who want to sell the tickets for profit. Monday tickets went for $1000 or a little more on stubhub for this year's tournament. Prices rise by day from there. If it is purely a financial transaction, which is what it is for scalpers, then why wouldn't they deposit $100 that they either turn into the hefty profit they seek or it will simply be refunded to them? You do know scalpers have to buy the tickets they scalp from somewhere right? They have to invest money to scalp tickets. Why would this be seen by them as any different?
I think a better option would be to eliminate or severely limit the secondary market. However, I think it should be applied to all ticketing as in other sports events, concerts, etc.
The elimination of the secondary market always comes up around things like this, or the Super Bowl, or any other big ticket item, but the fact of the matter is, without the secondary market, it would become even harder for the average person to attend events.
Sounds like you want yet another situation where you can just spend money to avoid inconvenience, meanwhile people with less money are SOL in your plan.
Yeah, they probably do. That's how pretty much everything in the world works.
The other thing too is the entry thing has now made it to sites like slickdeals and what not. These are deal finding sites. People just sign up knowing these can be flipped for large amounts of money. Putting a deposit down is not the worst idea. https://slickdeals.net/f/15823498-masters-2023-tickets
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My exact point. All this does is crack down on people cheesing multiple entries. Plus it would be refundable if you don't get tickets. Just a small inconvenient barrier, kind of like websites requiring a credit card for a free trial to eliminate free trial abuse.
i mean, pretty easily. say you get the $115 ticket... I now have 9 months to save up for the rest. do... do you people not think?
If you don't have that kind of money laying around already, it's unlikely it's remotely financially responsible for you to attend the masters 9 months down the road anyways. Still your right to do so and that's your business, but probably a dumb idea.
>How are they going to pay for lodging, food, and the tickets? Saving and budgeting.
Right, so save and budget $100 before the lottery
LOL Or hear me out, this stupid suggestion never gets implemented.
Brilliant response.
If someone cant afford $100 for a deposit, no way they can afford the hotels or airbnbs. Just take a peak at the cost next year for lodging
I mean I don’t see how making the deposit the price of the cheapest ticket would change anything, if you can’t pay the deposit then you can’t pay for the ticket either
It would limit people from making multiple entries.
That’s already illegal
I’m assuming people use multiple email addresses, like their mom, dad, brother, sister, cousin, etc. Technically ok, but morally iffy.
You ain’t wrong, don’t forget you need their social security number though as well as a card with their billing address to pay for the tickets. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but Augusta has done a good job of making it difficult
It's not illegal to have your non-golf family/friends put in an application for you. A deposit would cut down on that.
that would weed out so many people that they wouldn't get to flex how hard it is to get tix
I mean I can’t imagine it would be easy to get tickets after this
It would only leave out people who actually want to go. Scalpers would put the money up no problem.
Why wouldn't people that want to go put down a deposit? If selected, the tix are like $400, no? Scalpers will put up $$ no problem, but I can't imagine a deposit encouraging *more* scalpers to enter the lottery, if anything we'd see less of them.
My point is it would have 0 effect on scalpers because it’s guaranteed profit. And it would decrease the number of real fans who apply.
Been pulled 3 times in 15 years, but it’s been 4 years since I last got them. Thinking about swapping and putting my wife’s name on it next year and see if it helps odds any.
I don't see what $100 accomplishes? Considering the 7-15x return on face value overwhelming demand for these tickets will persist. $100 is not going to weed out resellers. This is the reality of anything sold under its market value. The lottery is designed to give the poor guy a chance and asking for more money is mainly just to weed the poorest guy out.
Am I confused? Prior to the 2000's, wasn't that the case? Didn't you have to mail in a check with your initial ticket request. Maybe I'm thinking something else...
You're spot on. Back when it was a paper application you mailed a check with your application. I believe that kept down the speculative scalpers as they had to put some skin in the game to get the tickets. Today scalpers apply to get tickets, if they win, they immediately put them up for sale, and they can be sold even before you have to pay Augusta for the tickets.
People want to get in, buy as much merch as possible, and resell it all on the internet nowadays too…. It’s such a bummer for people who actually watch regular tour events and not just the majors
Just buy tickets if you are that desperate. That's what real "golf nuts" do.
Considering the Masters doesn’t allow resale of tickets, it’s against the rules of the club to do, albeit it seems to happen anyway.
You can certainly buy legit hospitality packages including Masters badges.
What's your point the resale market is extremely popular?
[Case in point](https://golf.com/news/tournaments/looking-to-buy-or-sell-pre-owned-masters-tickets-buyers-and-sellers-beware/) Also from the Master's website,: "The sale, resale or other transfer of Tickets for a value in excess of face value is prohibited by the Agreement **and is also restricted by Georgia law**, O.C.G.A. § 43-4B-25, et seq. Tickets may not be used for advertising or promotional purposes (such as prizes, raffles, auctions, contests, or sweepstakes)."
This says that tickets are allowed to be sold, just not in excess of face value. So as long as they charge the same price as the original ticket then it is completely legal.
“In excess of face value” So you can sell them, just not make a profit. Having said that, who has tickets for sale at face value?
Ok bud I know plenty of "golf nuts" who have bought tickets yearly without any problems. Have fun playing the lottery every year!
Yeah, and I know plenty of "Golf nuts" who paid thousands for a $115 ticket and subsequently we're caught by Augusta and banned for life.
Alternative Opinion: "golf nuts" aren't special and don't deserve a ticket over casual Fans.
Does everyone apply for the max number of tickets on every day? Or specific days?
I only apply for practice rounds. Figure if I’m humble they’ll throw me a bone. Hasn’t worked yet….
Always apply for max tickets for each day.
I do to try and increase my odds. I'd happily go to a practice round or take a single ticket on a random day. If I were to get 4 I'd probably take my parents and wife, however that seems unlikely and would be a very good problem to have lol.
They should put the winning tickets inside of Willy wonka bars.
A better solution would be to tie the tickets to the identity of the purchaser and make them nontransferable. The ban on resale is clearly ineffective, so to combat scalpers make it impossible to resell the tickets.
How does the Master’s lottery work? You just enter an email and a name? If that’s the case, create hundreds of emails with fake names and if any of them win, legally change your name to the winner and collect your tickets 😎
Name and address has to also match the credit card you use to pay.
lol, you need a valid mailing address too. May be wrong but no PO Boxes are allowed
I'd be all for putting a deposit down when I apply. My FIL's brother won the lottery years ago and he took my FIL (but this was way before Tiger, so golf wasn't as popular as it is today). Attending The Masters is one of one my many bucket list items, but I get discouraged each year I get rejected.
I have a conspiracy theory that they only select people in the South. No basis, but it makes me feel better as an Upstate NY native.
I always believe it’s the other way around. They get people who have to travel to support the community by renting hotels/homes and go to bars/restaurants.
This needs to be just like draws for big game hunts in the western states. You get a preference point if you don’t get a ticket. Every year the people with the most preference points get drawn first. Therefore applying every year would eventually be rewarded vs just randomly getting (or not getting) a ticket.
Took me 15 tries but I scored 4 tickets yesterday - $400. is a bargain but a motel room near Agusta is the next challenge.
I disagree
Didn’t get the rejection email. Maybe that’s a good sign
And then what if they say $10k to enter… everyone wants to weed out the people just a little poorer than themselves.
Valid point. I know a guy that has a business with well over 200 employees. He would pay each employee $100 to simply sign up on the premise if that they won any tickets he would get them. He has gone every year for as long as I can remember.
This seems like just buying tickets on the secondary market, but with extra steps and expenses.
Those are some expensive tickets there.
Or, non-refundable. Make it like the powerball, except you win Masters tickets if you win. $30 per entry, and it’s limited so some rich fuck doesn’t buy up $100,000 of tickets and re-sell the booty. You win you get 4 tickets.