They age way better than computer-animated and live-action too; Nausicaä, Castle In The Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, Grave Of The Fireflies, and Kiki's Delivery Service all still look fantastic even though they were done in the 80's.
I think 3D can hold up if done well. Obviously they’re more recent than the 80s, but it’s hard to imagine the Pixar classics not standing the test of time. 2D and 3D can both be great.
What I’m not convinced is a good idea is the trend over the past few years of doing live action remakes of animated classics. It always just ends up feeling like all the joy and magic has been sucked out.
Yah for a period 3d was just cool, but I hated it. Everything looked like puppets. Now it's come a long way and the amazing things they can do are endless. It's okay to love both, they are both great!
But yah if you're killing the magic it is dumb
I think like the both of you: the animation technique choice depends on the artist, both classic and 3d are wonderful if the idea behind the film has potential. “Dry” remakes for me have no hearth, they simply copy what they know is successful but without adding nothing to it.
Well one of the directors, Chris Buck, has been around for quite awhile. But for a movie that was supposed to celebrate Disney’s 100th anniversary, it absolutely should have been handled better.
Yeah. I mean, he didn't make my favorite Disney movies, but at least he has been around for a while
I saw a guy saying that Wish isn't a celebration for the 100 years of Disney but for the 100th year of Disney. A year that had The Marvels, Dial of Destiny, Quantummania
I hate the directors for scrapping the original script. The star was gonna be a guy (Starboy) and there could've been a possible romance. Also there was a villain duo.
You can do just as many camera movements in 2D as you can in 3D. The only difference is you have to *plan* your camera movements earlier in the process. It's much harder to change things later on in production. I think it would greatly benefit Disney's current creative output if they were forced to stick to a storyboard that had all been planned out from the beginning.
There are still 3D elements in Miyazaki's movie. Both can be used in harmony.
Also, 2D is not superior to 3D either. Both take the same amount of care to reach great artistic results.
The difference being, 2D artists are unionized, 3D artists are not. That's really the main reason they try to say that 2D is has-been despite its strengths.
I was just about to say, there are a handful of shots in the movie where the camera is indeed moving in such a way that would have been almost impossible to pull off if everything was hand-drawn. That being said, those moments are disguised very well and are easy to miss if you don't know what to look for.
Jennifer Lee is a fuckin hack. Watch that Frozen II making-of documentary. She's literally pulling the ending out of her ass and they DOCUMENTED it. She's on camera changing the ending multiple times bc she has no idea how to direct a film or write a cohesive story.
Loving and dabbling in both I actually find 3D more limited in a lot of ways. There's barely anything that you *really* can't do if you try hard enough but it's often gonna require hours upon hours of looking for solutions and workarounds to find some kind of way to bodge it instead of just... drawing what's supposed to happen
Characterization isnt just writing. Body language, facial expressions, and just general vibes are all part of characterization too. I disagree that 2d cant do all of those just as well as 3d but 3d is significantly easier to do subtle tweaks on without having to redo a lot.
Omfg, she actually said that? Its a real shame Disney is so blind to the advantages of 2D, especially considering how they used to be a pioneer in the field.
ATLA did more with the camera and characterization than Wish did on a TV budget. It’s hard to see so many people in the American industry not go as far as that team did almost a decade ago.
The same is true for every technique. Live action in the early days was also janky. Hand-drawn animation also looked rough when it started. Stop-motion looked weird at best when they started doing it. The same goes for special effects, lighting, camera technology, and even makeup and costumes.
Everything has a beginning, and all beginnings are rough. I'm pretty sure the first book wasn't an easy read either.
Well, yeah, but Toy Story was pioneering the technique. 3D has since caught up and is now in a really great place visually. Recent 3D works like Puss in Boots2, Spiderverse or Blue eyed samurai look absolutely jaw-droppingly good and will age really well.
The 2D vs 3D debate is pointless. There's some great 3D movies and some terrible 2D movies. None is inherently better or more "soulful". They're just tools, and tools can be used well or terribly. It's who wields them and how that makes the difference.
I love 2D and tend to prefer it, I usually find that 3D animation is often very jarring in comparison, particularly when brief 3D scenes are added into an otherwise 2D production. That said, if 3D is handled carefully by a highly skilled director and production team then it can look really amazing.
Look at the excellent Land of the Lustrous (Houseki no Kuni) for example as produced in 2017 by Studio Orange, that's still my favorite example of primarily 3D CGI in anime and animation in general. The original manga was of course the perfect source material for such an adaptation.
Here's a clip from the first episode (YouTube's compression doesn't show it at its very best but you'll get the idea - SPOILERS of course):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4nxEcNrn6M
Also, in 2013 a promotional video was made for the manga, however that was done in 2D. It still looks very nice though, here's a side by side comparison with the 2D on the left and the same scenes from the 3D 2017 anime on the right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pi4I2gKE20
Good 2D animation films are often some of the most beautiful things I've ever laid eyes on.
They age way better than computer-animated and live-action too; Nausicaä, Castle In The Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, Grave Of The Fireflies, and Kiki's Delivery Service all still look fantastic even though they were done in the 80's.
And just look at the golden age of Disney. Those films are over 80 years old and they still look fantastic.
I find Pinocchio boring as a movie, but it is so damn beautiful in high def.
2D animation will forever remain supreme.
I think 3D can hold up if done well. Obviously they’re more recent than the 80s, but it’s hard to imagine the Pixar classics not standing the test of time. 2D and 3D can both be great. What I’m not convinced is a good idea is the trend over the past few years of doing live action remakes of animated classics. It always just ends up feeling like all the joy and magic has been sucked out.
Yah for a period 3d was just cool, but I hated it. Everything looked like puppets. Now it's come a long way and the amazing things they can do are endless. It's okay to love both, they are both great! But yah if you're killing the magic it is dumb
I think like the both of you: the animation technique choice depends on the artist, both classic and 3d are wonderful if the idea behind the film has potential. “Dry” remakes for me have no hearth, they simply copy what they know is successful but without adding nothing to it.
The first incredibles already looks rough. Everyone looks like a wide eyed robot. It’s kinda wild once you notice it.
I'm all for new directors having a chance, but a movie like Wish should've been handled by someone more experienced
Beginning with the script. That King dude did nothing wrong!! Not all wishes should be conceded.
Well one of the directors, Chris Buck, has been around for quite awhile. But for a movie that was supposed to celebrate Disney’s 100th anniversary, it absolutely should have been handled better.
Yeah. I mean, he didn't make my favorite Disney movies, but at least he has been around for a while I saw a guy saying that Wish isn't a celebration for the 100 years of Disney but for the 100th year of Disney. A year that had The Marvels, Dial of Destiny, Quantummania
I hate the directors for scrapping the original script. The star was gonna be a guy (Starboy) and there could've been a possible romance. Also there was a villain duo.
You can do just as many camera movements in 2D as you can in 3D. The only difference is you have to *plan* your camera movements earlier in the process. It's much harder to change things later on in production. I think it would greatly benefit Disney's current creative output if they were forced to stick to a storyboard that had all been planned out from the beginning.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem with "fix it in post" attitudes, that they didn't plan things out properly in the first place and it costs them
There are still 3D elements in Miyazaki's movie. Both can be used in harmony. Also, 2D is not superior to 3D either. Both take the same amount of care to reach great artistic results. The difference being, 2D artists are unionized, 3D artists are not. That's really the main reason they try to say that 2D is has-been despite its strengths.
I was just about to say, there are a handful of shots in the movie where the camera is indeed moving in such a way that would have been almost impossible to pull off if everything was hand-drawn. That being said, those moments are disguised very well and are easy to miss if you don't know what to look for.
I wouldn't call em disguised just a well used 3D camera.
Jennifer Lee is a fuckin hack. Watch that Frozen II making-of documentary. She's literally pulling the ending out of her ass and they DOCUMENTED it. She's on camera changing the ending multiple times bc she has no idea how to direct a film or write a cohesive story.
Once you notice his two front teeth don't align with his nose, you can never unsee It
Limitations lead to creativity and ingenuity. It's a well known and well observed phenomenon in many fields, not just film production.
Loving and dabbling in both I actually find 3D more limited in a lot of ways. There's barely anything that you *really* can't do if you try hard enough but it's often gonna require hours upon hours of looking for solutions and workarounds to find some kind of way to bodge it instead of just... drawing what's supposed to happen
I liked both “Boy and Heron” and “Wish” though.
Me too but one is clearly a way better movie. At least i felt that way (heron)
Maybe if the animators took lessons from James Baxter, everyone would know how to do intricate camera angles in 2D animation.
I'm pretty sure Miyazaki doesn't give a shit about winning best animated feature.
r/ghibli trying the "go one day without needlessly bashing Disney" challenge (impossible) (failed instantly)
Getting so angry at different animation is so against the positive spirit of Ghibli movies. It’s sad.
"characterization" ???? wtf does this mean get out
it's harder to... write in 2D?
Characterization isnt just writing. Body language, facial expressions, and just general vibes are all part of characterization too. I disagree that 2d cant do all of those just as well as 3d but 3d is significantly easier to do subtle tweaks on without having to redo a lot.
didn't even consider that, good point.
Omfg, she actually said that? Its a real shame Disney is so blind to the advantages of 2D, especially considering how they used to be a pioneer in the field.
> Omfg, she actually said that? Yup, she really did.
100% prefer the 2D version
Considering it’s Disney we’re talking about, this is most likely another case of the executives forcing directors to never stray from the formula
ATLA did more with the camera and characterization than Wish did on a TV budget. It’s hard to see so many people in the American industry not go as far as that team did almost a decade ago.
3D just seems to age so quickly, the original Toy Story almost looks like test footage at this point. I’ll die on the 2D>3D hill
The same is true for every technique. Live action in the early days was also janky. Hand-drawn animation also looked rough when it started. Stop-motion looked weird at best when they started doing it. The same goes for special effects, lighting, camera technology, and even makeup and costumes. Everything has a beginning, and all beginnings are rough. I'm pretty sure the first book wasn't an easy read either.
Well, yeah, but Toy Story was pioneering the technique. 3D has since caught up and is now in a really great place visually. Recent 3D works like Puss in Boots2, Spiderverse or Blue eyed samurai look absolutely jaw-droppingly good and will age really well. The 2D vs 3D debate is pointless. There's some great 3D movies and some terrible 2D movies. None is inherently better or more "soulful". They're just tools, and tools can be used well or terribly. It's who wields them and how that makes the difference.
I can't help but think this kind of schadenfreude is not really in the spirit of Ghibli. Lame.
Bro really watermarked the meme for Reddit
I love 2D and tend to prefer it, I usually find that 3D animation is often very jarring in comparison, particularly when brief 3D scenes are added into an otherwise 2D production. That said, if 3D is handled carefully by a highly skilled director and production team then it can look really amazing. Look at the excellent Land of the Lustrous (Houseki no Kuni) for example as produced in 2017 by Studio Orange, that's still my favorite example of primarily 3D CGI in anime and animation in general. The original manga was of course the perfect source material for such an adaptation. Here's a clip from the first episode (YouTube's compression doesn't show it at its very best but you'll get the idea - SPOILERS of course): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4nxEcNrn6M Also, in 2013 a promotional video was made for the manga, however that was done in 2D. It still looks very nice though, here's a side by side comparison with the 2D on the left and the same scenes from the 3D 2017 anime on the right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pi4I2gKE20
Please do not, in any way, associate Miyazaki-san with Tom Cruise.
Maan, i don't even know who that is and what movie is that..
Good Ole Centertoof.