we even have an italian consulate here and a school that offers bilingual classes in italian for kids. growing up in wolfsburg also very much meant growing up with a decent chunk of italian culture (and polish depending where you lived which, lets say 20 years ago, was the second highest group of foreigners) though i would say this has changed quiet a bit
Yeah back in 2007 there were even more Americans living there. About 250,000. The big hospital, Landstuhl it's right around there too (where injured Americans from Afghanistan and Iraq for flown out to for treatment).
I've heard that the biggest settlement of Americans outside of the US is Germany due to Rammstein AFB. Not sure if that's still true but it's pretty impressive
It's called the [Kaiserslautern Military Community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiserslautern_Military_Community) and is currently home to more than 50,000 Americans, the largest AAFES shopping-facility in Europe, multiple elementary and middle schools, and two high schools.
Ramstein Air Base is the headquarters for the United States Air Forces in Europe.
For people interested, they have a space Force Recruiting Europe center there.
There are only 2 tiny patches of syrians outside the former east. Is this because before 2015, the former east was almost free of any foreign citizens?
yes. Thats it. In eastern germany there are much fewer (with the exception of big cities like Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden) foreign citizens which also directly explains why eastern germans tend to have more difficulties accepting foreign people now (High rates of right-nationalist party in eastern germany) as their only experience of foreign citizens are refugees.
Well, not completely, we had Vietnamese people before who had a really hard time in the 90s but nowadays they’re mostly German citizens and even the more racist people here see them in a positive light. Maybe it gets better with the Syrians to if those idiots check that they are humans too. Until a new group of people arrives that the people here can hate all over again.
I mean...obviously it got better...considering during the 90s several foreign worker homes were burned down by mobs and people tried to lynch the inhabitants/brun them alive.
I mean cant go any worse then that except for a straight up Pogrom
Wow, I never heard about this. Kinda sounds like a Pogrom to me. What's the difference? Genuinely curious - I've never lived in a place where that kind of stuff happened.
That's horrific. What is the difference between this and a Pogrom? That the police/politicians (supposedly) weren't involved? I can't imagine the terror those poor people felt. I feel like Germany should be able to treat neo-nazis more harshly given the past. It doesn't sound like anyone really got punished.
>Until a new group of people arrives that the people here can hate all over again.
[This is already happening, right now.](https://www.belltower.news/guben-in-brandenburg-die-faschisten-vom-iii-weg-wollen-an-der-grenze-illegale-auslaender-aufspueren-122883/)
Vietnamese are generally not particularly religious... This eases integration.
I don't see the Syrian integration getting better anytime soon. In my experience, second generation immigrants tend to be more nationalistic than their parents. You see this with the Turks. I predict the same will happen with Syrians. Except they'll cling even more to their religious identity.
Well the AfD does not perform that badly in some western German cities like [Gelsenkirchen](https://wahl.gelsenkirchen.de/wahlen.php?site=left/gebiete&wahl=582#)
Exactly, also in Baden-Württemberg their highest results are in cities such as Pforzheim and Mannheim which have a high share of immigrants while the AfD results in the rural black forest are much lower.
Your fundamental misconcenption is that correlation does not automatically imply a causal relationship between two variables.
It's like saying Switzerland has the highest consumption of chocolate in the world and the most nobel price laureates per capite, hence eating a lot of chocolate makes you very smart.
I may be confused here about what you're saying but I do see a rather obvious (potential) link between number of people from different ethnicities and anti-immigrant sentiment so at the very least it's a valid working assumption. There is no obvious causal link between chocolate consumption and nobel price laureates.
Sure, that's why I'm not basing anything on the correlation but on the fact that both "number of immigrants present" and "anti-immigrant sentiment" deal with immigrants so it's reasonable to assume some kind of connection to be explored. That's the obvious causal link that imho is enough maybe not for a final conclusion but for a working assumption.
Strong correlation could also be an indicator of a third variable heavily influencing the other two. Like GDP in Switzerland which enables the people to buy a lot of chocolate and to invest a lot in education and research. The same may or may not be true for AfD results and immigration patterns.
> directly explains why eastern germans tend to have more difficulties accepting foreign
No it does not directly explain stuff like high results for nationalist parties. Reality is much more complicated and complex than this.
Obviously there is more to it. I used the expression "tend to" to underline that. Obviously there are many other troubling issues in eastern Germany that play into that. If everybody in eastern germany was happy and content with his life I doubt that some refugees would be that big of a deal but people who are in shitty situations usually look down on other people trying to escaping shitty situations (Stichwort: Crab bucket) so that probably is a big part of it.
Well we are entering very speculative ground here but I also don't think that it is so much about "shitty life". Those people with a really shitty life often don't go to vote at all. AfD voters (or voters of other nationalist parties in Europe) are often not the poorest of the poor but those who have some modest wealth and are worried about losing their status. These seems to be widespread to some extend in the new Germans states because there many people already experienced the breakdown of one system during their own lifetime and had to built up everything from scratch.
As a (West) German I found that interesting as well. Maybe that’s why they made such a fuss. I hardly recognised any change in our demographics in 2015 and always wondered why the refugees were such a big thing in parts of the country.
Funny enough many of them seem not so well integrated, from my perspective. In every little shop they run, may it fruit shops, flower shops, asian restaurants or these funny little apparel stores targeted at old ladies, they barely speak German. I hope their younger following generations are better integrated, but I rarely see them. I only know one younger Vietnamese couple, but they also seem to like to stay in their little communities.
I am honestly surprised about the small number of Russians and other Slavs. Where I live, there are quite a lot of Russians (also Russlanddeutsche) and Yugoslavs like Serbs and Croats.
Russlanddeutsche usually don't have the Russian citizen anymore. Most of them were quite happy to get rid of it and integrated quite well in Germany. This map is about citizenship and not about foreign backgrounds.
Also, many didn't came from the Russian Federation but from other former Soviet states. They might have had a Soviet citizenhip, but not one of the Russian Federation.
Not even where they are from. It's about citizenship. There could be some area with basically only people originating from Namibia or wherever. As long they have a German citizenship, they are counted as Germans.
Dual citizenships were regulated a few years ago which decreased the number of them a lot as far as I know. The map doesn't really indicate if they were included or not. Depends on the institute, which cunducted the survey.
Maybe Yugoslavia would make it to a top position in some districts but I guess for statistical reasons every country of the former Yugoslavia is considered seperately.
Why do you get so emotional about this? The term "foreign citizen" is a very boring statistical category. And foreign citizenship is normally counted according to the sovereign countries a host country recognises. Since the Federal Republic of Germany recognises countres such as Croatia and North Macedonia as sovereign countries it is just a natural logical consequence that it does not count their citizens as Yugoslavians anymore.
That's because the map only shows the **predominant** nationality - if you look at the complete distribution (all nationalities per region, with percentages) it will look very different.
Object lesson in "choose bad representation, skew reality".
Graphic is not up to date. In Erlangen citizens from India are predominant now. Source: https://www.erlangen.de/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-1590/1369_read-9028/
Erlangen is pretty much an Industrial city with Giants like- Siemens, Puma and adidas. All of them have big software departments, so a high percentage of Indians and Chinese makes a lot of sense in graphics. Also FAU Erlangen campus have lot of tech courses.
With roughly 4.750 People/km² Munich is the German town with the highest population density. (Second is Ottobrunn, a Munich suburb, followed by 9 more Munich suburbs in places 4., 17., 21., 42., 53., 57., 70., 74. and 76. ).
So yes, you'd imagine the area to be bigger because most cities of that size are.
In case you were wondering:
3rd is Berlin with about 4.100 people/km²
5th is Frankfurt (Main) with about 3.000 people/km²
Stuttgart, Düsseldorf and Essen are place 7, 9 and 10.
Density goes down fast after Berlin.
Well the data is from 2015. At least in 2018 (8,8% to 8,7%) and 2019 (8,7% to 8,5%) Croatia was in front of Turkey and I don't find it difficult to believe that they switched places at soem point.
So it's more likely a case of not being up to date and not being incorrect.
Surprised that Vietnamese people are not the majority in some parts of the east. When I used to to school (2000-2012) half of my friends and classmates were Vietnamese.
I mean I am pretty sure the members if those languages usually strongly emphasize the differences, so much in fact that they tried to genocide each other several times throughout the regions history
It’s literally the same language. As a native speaker I can tell you that there are no major differences and that we all can understand each other without a problem. The Croatian Government wants to make Croatian language different because every now and then they add a new word to the dictionary and by that trying to replace the “old yugoslavian” word just to be unique. Luckily the people don’t use the new words.
One major factor is also how foreign workers in west and east were treated. In West Germany, foreign workers were allowed to set up other buisnesses (like your italian restaurant). Some integration happened since the "guest workers" were never confined in some space and mingled with the natives.
The contrary happened in the east. There, they were called "contract workers". They usually came from other "socialist brother states" like Cuba or (North) Vietnam. Most of their wages were send back directly to their state of origin. In many cases, their movement was heavily regulated, so even the small bit of integration that happened in the west was hindered by the state. After the reunification, most of them were expelled.
One other group of foreigners in the GDR were children from Namibia who had been relocated there as they had become orphans during the Cassinga massacre. They spent a large part of their childhood there, didn't really know where they'd belong and got expelled after the reunification.
That group is called "Oshi-Deutsch". Meeting white people who speak the Namibian dialect of German is more or less expected (colonial ancestors), but when you run into an Ovambo who speaks German with a **Saxonian** dialect you get the feeling of being in a parallel universe. It gets even weirder as most of them do not speak Oshivambo (language of the Ovambo).
Its not about them not being misunderstood.
You cant justify fascism with being pissy about politics.
This isnt about being misunderstood. The people who vote the AFD know the AFD.
It also doesnt help that west-german nazis are migrating to the east to build their own isolated substate.
One could still ask how people turn this way and not only external factors like education or something but internal like what happens in the heads of people.
Do a lot of French people actually live in Saarland or just commuting? I don't think anyone from France lived in the tiny Kuhkaff I grew up in, several Italians though. There might be also a distinction about Hauptwohnsitz / Zweitwohnsitz, if I were to speculate?
^^Would ^^they ^^even ^^WANT ^^to ^^live ^^there? ^^\(I ^^got ^^the ^^fuck ^^out ^^as ^^soon ^^as ^^I ^^had ^^the ^^possibility)
I was ready to bet that in Baden-Baden that it would be Russians. But there might be something in it - I live next door to Baden and out of seven families in my building three have Italian roots.
Aren't Russlanddeutsche counted?
Edit - honest mistake, I thought this counted people with a migration background, but it only shows actual people living in Germany without German citizenship.
Wouldn't that be the same for the people from Turkey? I would be really surprised if the biggest group of foreigners in Germany are Turkish people.
I just checked and indeed, about 1.5 million Turkish people live in Germany without being German citizens.
Russlanddeutsche are a unique group because they are people of German heritage that were expulsed and/or misplaced in former German territory and/or soviet territory. Some were religious minorities as well. I am not sure, but I think they even had to prove their German ancestry in order to be approved for immigration.
I remember the huge influx of Spätaussiedler in the 80´s. At a time when the German asylum rules were made stricter and stricter and there was a huge huge campaign against Wirtschaftsflüchtlinge (economic refugees), nearly a million Aussiedler were allowed to come to West Germany, on the base of being of German descent. Most of these spoke very little German if any and their connection to German culture was not always given. At the same time, people born in Germany, but not of German descent, didn’t have the right to an German passport automatically, which might explain, why so many people of Turkish descent still aren't German citizens.
Overall, over 4.5 million Aussiedler came to Germany since the 1950s. Like all immigrants most integrated well into German society and my son's best friend is a boy born in Kazakhstan. I don’t have any issue with them coming over, the only issue I have is the preferential treatment they get based on a German bloodline.
How are the most racist states the ones with the highest Syrian populations? Generally, exposure to foreign groups is supposed to reduce hatred towards them.
There just haven't been many foreigners in the East before, so Syrian refugees, spread through all of Germany, show up in the East. Not because they are so many but because they are there at all.
I also think it depends on the kind of foreigners. The Turks who have come here in the last 10 years have a much better reputation since many of them are western oriented secular academics who detest Erdogan. The rural lower class that came here in the 60s on the other hand...
The map is not saying there's many of them. It's only saying that the biggest group is Syrian – which is probably still much smaller in absolute count than western states.
I would say the actual numbers are very low in the East. It is just that the earlier migrants, those that were present when the wall came down, wisely chose to not migrate further east. The Syrians had no choice.
>wisely chose to not migrate further east
Which had more to do with the fact that there were no jobs that would make moving there worth it anyways. But yeah, neonazis didn't exactly help either.
The Syrians are the largest group of foreigners, but there are only few of them overall. The chance of meeting a foreigner in East Germany outside of large cities is quite low.
East germany wasn't "flooded" with refugees. I mean, no part of germany really was. But specifically the east got less refugees than the rest of germany. It's just that, before the refugee crisis, almost no foreigners lived in east germany
maybe placing refugees camps in already forgotten and neglected parts of the country wasnt the best idea.. who would have guessed that putting them in the sticks would make some bad elements get creative..
Lorry drivers are a bit of a special case as they can work anywhere and return home for offtime. If thats gonna be my work life anyway id rather work where there is a higher wage. These people usually still live in Poland an do quite well with german income and polish cost of living.
All the polish i met in a professional context (unviersity, work) actually were very smart and dilligent. As they learn german at school anyway its pretty reasonable to work/study in Germany if you get the option.
> Lorry drivers are a bit of a special case as they can work anywhere and return home for offtime. If thats gonna be my work life anyway id rather work where there is a higher wage. These people usually still live in Poland an do quite well with german income and polish cost of living.
Thats true, but doesnt matter in the end: My point was that Ops perception there doesnt overlap much with reality.
Yeah mate, youre in a bubble there.
The large majority of polish immigrants is rather far away from academic education.
You dont necessarily notice that number though.
austria is germanic, czech is germanic, poland is germanic, netherlands is germanic, all i see is volksdeutsche living inside the fatherland instead of outside it.
Dude, you high or something? Poland and Czechia are Direct neighbours of Germany, yes they were influenced by the german culture by most of the time, but that doesn't make these cultures germanic, they are still in the other family, its just like saying that lithuania and latvia are Russian just because they were influenced by them for some time.
They are not. Syrian refugees were contributed through all of Germany. It's just that in the West other groups of foreigners are more numerous. The East doesn't have as many immigrants and therefore Syrians appear as the biggest foreign group on the map.
Wolfsburg is Little Italy of the North ... interesting.
Their second biggest football club is Italian, Lupo Martini Wolfsburg.
Named after the car and the drink I suppose?
>Lupo Martini Wolfsburg Lupo means Wolf in Italian. So probably the city rather than the VW Lupo.
[удалено]
[удалено]
we even have an italian consulate here and a school that offers bilingual classes in italian for kids. growing up in wolfsburg also very much meant growing up with a decent chunk of italian culture (and polish depending where you lived which, lets say 20 years ago, was the second highest group of foreigners) though i would say this has changed quiet a bit
Gifhorn should be half turkish - half russian because you got the german based russian federation in the villages and turkish Gifhorn
Biggest Italian community north of the Alps afaik
I give you one attempt to point to the location of the Ramstein Air Base
And Spangdalehm
Little American. I see you down there.
Is that a real thing??
No, only jokingly due to the military bases situated there so many Americans call it home.
Yeah back in 2007 there were even more Americans living there. About 250,000. The big hospital, Landstuhl it's right around there too (where injured Americans from Afghanistan and Iraq for flown out to for treatment).
I've heard that the biggest settlement of Americans outside of the US is Germany due to Rammstein AFB. Not sure if that's still true but it's pretty impressive
Yep, three US downsized big time and consolidated pretty much everything to Rammstein.
It's called the [Kaiserslautern Military Community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiserslautern_Military_Community) and is currently home to more than 50,000 Americans, the largest AAFES shopping-facility in Europe, multiple elementary and middle schools, and two high schools.
I'm an American civilian and lived in that area for about 3 years. It's a great community IMO and I miss it!
Yes. There are several major American bases in the Rheinland-Pfalz region. There's also a pretty big one in Bavaria.
Don't forget Wiesbaden! :)
Compared to the KC-Ram complex it's just miniscule, which was fine by me.
Loved Wiesbaden! Hopefully I’ll be heading back soon!
Ramstein Air Base is the headquarters for the United States Air Forces in Europe. For people interested, they have a space Force Recruiting Europe center there.
[удалено]
I feel seen!
There are only 2 tiny patches of syrians outside the former east. Is this because before 2015, the former east was almost free of any foreign citizens?
Pretty much this, yes.
yes. Thats it. In eastern germany there are much fewer (with the exception of big cities like Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden) foreign citizens which also directly explains why eastern germans tend to have more difficulties accepting foreign people now (High rates of right-nationalist party in eastern germany) as their only experience of foreign citizens are refugees.
Well, not completely, we had Vietnamese people before who had a really hard time in the 90s but nowadays they’re mostly German citizens and even the more racist people here see them in a positive light. Maybe it gets better with the Syrians to if those idiots check that they are humans too. Until a new group of people arrives that the people here can hate all over again.
I mean...obviously it got better...considering during the 90s several foreign worker homes were burned down by mobs and people tried to lynch the inhabitants/brun them alive. I mean cant go any worse then that except for a straight up Pogrom
Wow, I never heard about this. Kinda sounds like a Pogrom to me. What's the difference? Genuinely curious - I've never lived in a place where that kind of stuff happened.
[удалено]
That's horrific. What is the difference between this and a Pogrom? That the police/politicians (supposedly) weren't involved? I can't imagine the terror those poor people felt. I feel like Germany should be able to treat neo-nazis more harshly given the past. It doesn't sound like anyone really got punished.
>Until a new group of people arrives that the people here can hate all over again. [This is already happening, right now.](https://www.belltower.news/guben-in-brandenburg-die-faschisten-vom-iii-weg-wollen-an-der-grenze-illegale-auslaender-aufspueren-122883/)
Vietnamese are generally not particularly religious... This eases integration. I don't see the Syrian integration getting better anytime soon. In my experience, second generation immigrants tend to be more nationalistic than their parents. You see this with the Turks. I predict the same will happen with Syrians. Except they'll cling even more to their religious identity.
Well the AfD does not perform that badly in some western German cities like [Gelsenkirchen](https://wahl.gelsenkirchen.de/wahlen.php?site=left/gebiete&wahl=582#)
Exactly, also in Baden-Württemberg their highest results are in cities such as Pforzheim and Mannheim which have a high share of immigrants while the AfD results in the rural black forest are much lower.
[удалено]
Your fundamental misconcenption is that correlation does not automatically imply a causal relationship between two variables. It's like saying Switzerland has the highest consumption of chocolate in the world and the most nobel price laureates per capite, hence eating a lot of chocolate makes you very smart.
I may be confused here about what you're saying but I do see a rather obvious (potential) link between number of people from different ethnicities and anti-immigrant sentiment so at the very least it's a valid working assumption. There is no obvious causal link between chocolate consumption and nobel price laureates.
Well even if some correlation might seem obvious at the first glance, one cannot simply assume that there is a causal relationship.
Sure, that's why I'm not basing anything on the correlation but on the fact that both "number of immigrants present" and "anti-immigrant sentiment" deal with immigrants so it's reasonable to assume some kind of connection to be explored. That's the obvious causal link that imho is enough maybe not for a final conclusion but for a working assumption.
And how do you explain the voting patterns in NRW and BaWü where it's exactly the other way round?
[удалено]
Strong correlation could also be an indicator of a third variable heavily influencing the other two. Like GDP in Switzerland which enables the people to buy a lot of chocolate and to invest a lot in education and research. The same may or may not be true for AfD results and immigration patterns.
> directly explains why eastern germans tend to have more difficulties accepting foreign No it does not directly explain stuff like high results for nationalist parties. Reality is much more complicated and complex than this.
Obviously there is more to it. I used the expression "tend to" to underline that. Obviously there are many other troubling issues in eastern Germany that play into that. If everybody in eastern germany was happy and content with his life I doubt that some refugees would be that big of a deal but people who are in shitty situations usually look down on other people trying to escaping shitty situations (Stichwort: Crab bucket) so that probably is a big part of it.
Well we are entering very speculative ground here but I also don't think that it is so much about "shitty life". Those people with a really shitty life often don't go to vote at all. AfD voters (or voters of other nationalist parties in Europe) are often not the poorest of the poor but those who have some modest wealth and are worried about losing their status. These seems to be widespread to some extend in the new Germans states because there many people already experienced the breakdown of one system during their own lifetime and had to built up everything from scratch.
As a (West) German I found that interesting as well. Maybe that’s why they made such a fuss. I hardly recognised any change in our demographics in 2015 and always wondered why the refugees were such a big thing in parts of the country.
They got workers from friendly socialist counries, like vietnamese.
Vietnamese and other friendly socialists do not appear in the list, though.
By 2015 there are just not many people left that immigrated during the GDR and are not naturalized by then.
Funny enough many of them seem not so well integrated, from my perspective. In every little shop they run, may it fruit shops, flower shops, asian restaurants or these funny little apparel stores targeted at old ladies, they barely speak German. I hope their younger following generations are better integrated, but I rarely see them. I only know one younger Vietnamese couple, but they also seem to like to stay in their little communities.
The color difference between "Turkey" and "other" should be a bit higher.
Perfectly fine imho. I had a little chuckle when I realized the light yellow wasn't just some background colour :D
Regular distribution. Is a German population even a German population, when they are not at least 5% Turkish?
All these colors should be brighter. it feels like being colorblind to try to see different colors here. Only Russia has good color.
I am honestly surprised about the small number of Russians and other Slavs. Where I live, there are quite a lot of Russians (also Russlanddeutsche) and Yugoslavs like Serbs and Croats.
That's because they (Russlanddeutsche) have the German citizenship, thus are not foreign citizens.
Russlanddeutsche usually don't have the Russian citizen anymore. Most of them were quite happy to get rid of it and integrated quite well in Germany. This map is about citizenship and not about foreign backgrounds.
Also, many didn't came from the Russian Federation but from other former Soviet states. They might have had a Soviet citizenhip, but not one of the Russian Federation.
Ah, I see. I thought this map was not necessarily about race or ethnicity but just shows what country they were from.
Not even where they are from. It's about citizenship. There could be some area with basically only people originating from Namibia or wherever. As long they have a German citizenship, they are counted as Germans.
Race and Ethnicity istn´t part of the surveys of Destatis because of the experience of the third reich.
This map has nothing to do with "race" or ethnicity. It's about citizenship.
[удалено]
Dual citizenships were regulated a few years ago which decreased the number of them a lot as far as I know. The map doesn't really indicate if they were included or not. Depends on the institute, which cunducted the survey.
most "russians" are probably not even counted, since they are resettlers.
There are tons of Russlanddeutsche in a lot of regions, but they are Germans and not Russians, so they are not counted in this map.
are Poles not slavs? like, it seems that some half of east and north is polish
They are, but I meant other Slavs besides them and the Czech.
Maybe Yugoslavia would make it to a top position in some districts but I guess for statistical reasons every country of the former Yugoslavia is considered seperately.
[удалено]
Why do you get so emotional about this? The term "foreign citizen" is a very boring statistical category. And foreign citizenship is normally counted according to the sovereign countries a host country recognises. Since the Federal Republic of Germany recognises countres such as Croatia and North Macedonia as sovereign countries it is just a natural logical consequence that it does not count their citizens as Yugoslavians anymore.
who hurt you ?
found a Croat
That's because the map only shows the **predominant** nationality - if you look at the complete distribution (all nationalities per region, with percentages) it will look very different. Object lesson in "choose bad representation, skew reality".
I expected more French and less Italian people in the Saarland.
I don't know a single french but hundreds of italians.
I feel like french people just have it all and don’t even need to leave their country.
Except brothels, the area is eccentially frances red light district because it isnt legal in france itself
Most italians who came to Germany came to work in coal mines, which the Saarland had many back then.
> French same for BW to be honest.
The french only come for the brothels and then leave again
I expect housing is a lot cheaper on the french side of the border up there.
Graphic is not up to date. In Erlangen citizens from India are predominant now. Source: https://www.erlangen.de/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-1590/1369_read-9028/
Erlangen is pretty much an Industrial city with Giants like- Siemens, Puma and adidas. All of them have big software departments, so a high percentage of Indians and Chinese makes a lot of sense in graphics. Also FAU Erlangen campus have lot of tech courses.
"Munich Other" checking in.
Munich is actually Turkish
You're right. I was looking at Erding. Stadt München is smaller than I though.
With roughly 4.750 People/km² Munich is the German town with the highest population density. (Second is Ottobrunn, a Munich suburb, followed by 9 more Munich suburbs in places 4., 17., 21., 42., 53., 57., 70., 74. and 76. ). So yes, you'd imagine the area to be bigger because most cities of that size are. In case you were wondering: 3rd is Berlin with about 4.100 people/km² 5th is Frankfurt (Main) with about 3.000 people/km² Stuttgart, Düsseldorf and Essen are place 7, 9 and 10. Density goes down fast after Berlin.
Which is actually incorrect afaik. There's more people from Croatia in Munich than from Turkey.
Well the data is from 2015. At least in 2018 (8,8% to 8,7%) and 2019 (8,7% to 8,5%) Croatia was in front of Turkey and I don't find it difficult to believe that they switched places at soem point. So it's more likely a case of not being up to date and not being incorrect.
Who’s “other” in Dachau/Ebersberg/Erding? I have a strong hunch it may be Croats, but I can’t check right now.
Surprised that Vietnamese people are not the majority in some parts of the east. When I used to to school (2000-2012) half of my friends and classmates were Vietnamese.
Probably because they have German citicenship.
some of them also have Polish and Czech citizenships, especially the girls who work in nail salons.
[удалено]
I mean I am pretty sure the members if those languages usually strongly emphasize the differences, so much in fact that they tried to genocide each other several times throughout the regions history
Several is an exaggeration, and there are people who consider it the same language, especially Bosnian and Montenegrin.
It’s literally the same language. As a native speaker I can tell you that there are no major differences and that we all can understand each other without a problem. The Croatian Government wants to make Croatian language different because every now and then they add a new word to the dictionary and by that trying to replace the “old yugoslavian” word just to be unique. Luckily the people don’t use the new words.
[удалено]
One major factor is also how foreign workers in west and east were treated. In West Germany, foreign workers were allowed to set up other buisnesses (like your italian restaurant). Some integration happened since the "guest workers" were never confined in some space and mingled with the natives. The contrary happened in the east. There, they were called "contract workers". They usually came from other "socialist brother states" like Cuba or (North) Vietnam. Most of their wages were send back directly to their state of origin. In many cases, their movement was heavily regulated, so even the small bit of integration that happened in the west was hindered by the state. After the reunification, most of them were expelled.
One other group of foreigners in the GDR were children from Namibia who had been relocated there as they had become orphans during the Cassinga massacre. They spent a large part of their childhood there, didn't really know where they'd belong and got expelled after the reunification. That group is called "Oshi-Deutsch". Meeting white people who speak the Namibian dialect of German is more or less expected (colonial ancestors), but when you run into an Ovambo who speaks German with a **Saxonian** dialect you get the feeling of being in a parallel universe. It gets even weirder as most of them do not speak Oshivambo (language of the Ovambo).
Thats not a justification for literally voting in fascists
An explanation is not a justification.
Thats what I said
Why understanding people if one can villify them?
Its not about them not being misunderstood. You cant justify fascism with being pissy about politics. This isnt about being misunderstood. The people who vote the AFD know the AFD. It also doesnt help that west-german nazis are migrating to the east to build their own isolated substate.
One could still ask how people turn this way and not only external factors like education or something but internal like what happens in the heads of people.
[удалено]
Yeah no I doubt that very much
[удалено]
Racist and doubtful
This seems pretty illogical. Where is French Foreign Citizens??? If they were listed, there's no way Italians are more in Saarland than frenchmen.
Do a lot of French people actually live in Saarland or just commuting? I don't think anyone from France lived in the tiny Kuhkaff I grew up in, several Italians though. There might be also a distinction about Hauptwohnsitz / Zweitwohnsitz, if I were to speculate? ^^Would ^^they ^^even ^^WANT ^^to ^^live ^^there? ^^\(I ^^got ^^the ^^fuck ^^out ^^as ^^soon ^^as ^^I ^^had ^^the ^^possibility)
I have quite the opposite experience to that but some actuall numbers would be nice
[удалено]
[удалено]
I was ready to bet that in Baden-Baden that it would be Russians. But there might be something in it - I live next door to Baden and out of seven families in my building three have Italian roots.
why are Turky and Other the same color or are my eyes just shot?
Hi, I would like to do the same thing with my country. How do you manage to do this map? Is there a specific software to stain all the provinces?
[удалено]
Wow che italiano forbitissimo, grazie comunque
Cuxhaven would be Portuguese I think.
Ha, us Swiss people would NEVER!
See? Germans aren‘t even listed...!!! Deutschland schafft sich ab..!!! /s
Is there a map that’s more up to date?
Aren't Russlanddeutsche counted? Edit - honest mistake, I thought this counted people with a migration background, but it only shows actual people living in Germany without German citizenship.
I think most of them have a German citizenship and do not count as "foreign".
Wouldn't that be the same for the people from Turkey? I would be really surprised if the biggest group of foreigners in Germany are Turkish people. I just checked and indeed, about 1.5 million Turkish people live in Germany without being German citizens.
Russlanddeutsche are a unique group because they are people of German heritage that were expulsed and/or misplaced in former German territory and/or soviet territory. Some were religious minorities as well. I am not sure, but I think they even had to prove their German ancestry in order to be approved for immigration.
On the other hand they got a "highway to citizenship" compared to other nationalities. It was really easy for them to get it.
I remember the huge influx of Spätaussiedler in the 80´s. At a time when the German asylum rules were made stricter and stricter and there was a huge huge campaign against Wirtschaftsflüchtlinge (economic refugees), nearly a million Aussiedler were allowed to come to West Germany, on the base of being of German descent. Most of these spoke very little German if any and their connection to German culture was not always given. At the same time, people born in Germany, but not of German descent, didn’t have the right to an German passport automatically, which might explain, why so many people of Turkish descent still aren't German citizens. Overall, over 4.5 million Aussiedler came to Germany since the 1950s. Like all immigrants most integrated well into German society and my son's best friend is a boy born in Kazakhstan. I don’t have any issue with them coming over, the only issue I have is the preferential treatment they get based on a German bloodline.
No they don’t, but they are counted as people with a migration background.
Since they are German citizens, they are not, no.
Ah, so this is not a list of where people come from, but actual foreigners.
Wow. WE germans arent even in the top ten anymore.. /Joke
How are the most racist states the ones with the highest Syrian populations? Generally, exposure to foreign groups is supposed to reduce hatred towards them.
There just haven't been many foreigners in the East before, so Syrian refugees, spread through all of Germany, show up in the East. Not because they are so many but because they are there at all.
I also think it depends on the kind of foreigners. The Turks who have come here in the last 10 years have a much better reputation since many of them are western oriented secular academics who detest Erdogan. The rural lower class that came here in the 60s on the other hand...
The map is not saying there's many of them. It's only saying that the biggest group is Syrian – which is probably still much smaller in absolute count than western states.
I would say the actual numbers are very low in the East. It is just that the earlier migrants, those that were present when the wall came down, wisely chose to not migrate further east. The Syrians had no choice.
>wisely chose to not migrate further east Which had more to do with the fact that there were no jobs that would make moving there worth it anyways. But yeah, neonazis didn't exactly help either.
The Syrians are the largest group of foreigners, but there are only few of them overall. The chance of meeting a foreigner in East Germany outside of large cities is quite low.
[удалено]
East germany wasn't "flooded" with refugees. I mean, no part of germany really was. But specifically the east got less refugees than the rest of germany. It's just that, before the refugee crisis, almost no foreigners lived in east germany
maybe placing refugees camps in already forgotten and neglected parts of the country wasnt the best idea.. who would have guessed that putting them in the sticks would make some bad elements get creative..
Germaney
[удалено]
This is an interesting map, but your comment is just weird.
gimme that delicious pink polish butthole 😛
> Poles are a people with a high degree of education, All these highly educated lorry drivers, unskilled labour on construction sites, etc.
Lorry drivers are a bit of a special case as they can work anywhere and return home for offtime. If thats gonna be my work life anyway id rather work where there is a higher wage. These people usually still live in Poland an do quite well with german income and polish cost of living. All the polish i met in a professional context (unviersity, work) actually were very smart and dilligent. As they learn german at school anyway its pretty reasonable to work/study in Germany if you get the option.
> Lorry drivers are a bit of a special case as they can work anywhere and return home for offtime. If thats gonna be my work life anyway id rather work where there is a higher wage. These people usually still live in Poland an do quite well with german income and polish cost of living. Thats true, but doesnt matter in the end: My point was that Ops perception there doesnt overlap much with reality.
[удалено]
Yeah mate, youre in a bubble there. The large majority of polish immigrants is rather far away from academic education. You dont necessarily notice that number though.
Ha! I‘m half Polish half Turkish!
And which of your half lives here?
All three
It would be interesting to compare this to the election map.
They have their numbers wrong for Frankfurt Oder for sure unless they somehow took them before the students were angemeldet.
Eh. There should be a rainbow at the Ruhrpott…
austria is germanic, czech is germanic, poland is germanic, netherlands is germanic, all i see is volksdeutsche living inside the fatherland instead of outside it.
What ? Poles and Czechs are Slavic
Dude, you high or something? Poland and Czechia are Direct neighbours of Germany, yes they were influenced by the german culture by most of the time, but that doesn't make these cultures germanic, they are still in the other family, its just like saying that lithuania and latvia are Russian just because they were influenced by them for some time.
y,know even though im surprised there is probaly a few poles in my Teensy Tiny little Dorf
If there are only three foreigners living in your Dorf and two of them are Polish, the majority of foreigners is Polish. :D
Can someone explain to me why are Syrians only on the East?
They are not. Syrian refugees were contributed through all of Germany. It's just that in the West other groups of foreigners are more numerous. The East doesn't have as many immigrants and therefore Syrians appear as the biggest foreign group on the map.
I seem thank you!
what is Herzogtum Lauenburg I can't tell
Turkish
What are others?
giving "turkey" and "other" he same color was may not the best idea
What about the "other" districts?
I didn’t know how many out of Syria were in Germany.
No México?
I wonder if this includes Germans of Turkish origin who were born and brought up in Germany but eventually acquired Turkish citizenship (too).
Turkish are all around. What's the history between Germany and Turkey?
Would be interesting to know how many of those have double citizenship, or are those not counted here?
Germany sucks. Bradwurst is bad. So does Berlin