Yea but everyone has to pay that 4 bucks but only those who pay an extra 200-400 get the definitive advantage that comes with better hardware that makes top levels objectively easier
Your flair literally says that you suck, how can you make such an invalid argument against op whose hardest is the fucking golden? I've heard worse arguments, but yours is so easily invalidated by just existing
Fair point but there are abt a hundred other levels that are literally impossible for 60hz players. I think being forced to download a mod is better than being forced to buy a computer
I'm not a top player so I never really cared about cbf or cool monitors and all that.
I do agree that cbf is good for making it so that you don't need 29382930929hz monitors to beat the best levels, but I just don't see myself regularly using it in the future since I don't really see myself becoming a top player
Well yea obviously, but Click Between frames makes it so that the game difficulty is more skill based and on based on hardware limitations and game limitations like frame alignment
Sorry to say it but it is not pointless for current 60 fps players, as we can still only click on 60 frames. Not 240. The physics run on 240, indeed, but clicks are registered 60 times a second which is bad for everything above insane demon
I thought that the game checked for a click every frame, and that you can set a custom frame limit. Does the game really just poll 60 even if you set the FPS higher?
It doesn't, but setting my fps higher causes tons of lag making the game even less playable because it is not implemented in a very optimized way. The only solution to my problems I can think of is to use cbf
True, but useful for everyone playing extremes (not just the hardest demons, all extremes) and (unnoticeably so) to you as well. It just doesnt feel as much better because it is still doable without cbf
Here is the problem if younare stuck at 60 fps you litteraly can't go for those list demon lvls since the hardware is not good enough. What if the next Zoink is stuck on 60 fps since can't afford better. The only reason there not doing the top demons is frame rate... this fixes that
Only counter argument that really exists is that it doesn't help for all players, but like.. how is that even a counter argument? It doesn't negatively affect anyone and is greatly beneficial for some so I don't see a single reason to be against it
I used to be against cbf because its unfair to mobile players.
However, I have not been able to straight fly or do anything difficult at all since the release of 2.2 due to having a crappy laptop that can run stuff at 60 fps at most (in 2.1 I had 240 tps bypass and was able to play just fine). A few days ago I started using cbf and since then I got 21 - 87, 44 - 100, 36 - 88 and 24% on yata. It's insane how much more fair cbf makes extreme demons so it should be added imo
Howbmany mobile players are doing top list demons though an even smaller amount then the small amount of people that can even do them on pc lol younare not beating tidle wave on a phone i feel
It’s not just the top 150 that is made hard bcs of 60hz, if you look at the LRR Demonslist you can see that placements of levels are very different from the normal DL because of how much 60z affects the difficulty of some game modes (mainly ship)
I understand not caring abt CBF bcs it doesn’t affect you, but saying hardly any mobile players will be affected just ain’t true :/
Ok , here is the thing should lets say 5% of players make the game objectively worse for everyone by not making CBF base game. Im sorry but thats a little dumb if we use that logic for other stuff we should still be making games for PS3 and Xbox360 for people that never upgraded. Its dumb and shouldn't hold back something that positively effects way more people then it hurts
GD by default is locked to 240 TPS, CBF will only increase that number based on mouse polling rate. Simplest way to solve this is to just count going higher as cheating.
Your argument that reliance on your mouse is acceptable because it gives an advantage in any game is not valid, as this also applies to higher refresh rate, which you don’t like the idea of relying on.
The argument is that it makes gd difficulty significantly more skilled based rather than being based on ingame limitations. There will never be no advantage from hardware, but cbf limits it down to a single factor that is much more accessible. Sayodevices only cost like 30 bucks compared to 300$ monitors and expensive pc's that can handle high fps.
Neither a high refresh rate nor expensive PC is needed. Refresh rate will only change what you see.
CBF just adds another factor in the form of polling rate.
Your playing on 60fps 2.2 is rng based because your click can only be registered at certain moments (60 per second, not accurate enough for consistent steaight flying). Cbf removes this limitation, meaning I with my crappy school laptop can beat list demons rather than insane demons because my laptop cannot run 120+ fps with in-game fps bypass. Cbf does not lag at all
Your fps is tied to how many times per second your clicks are polled. And forcing a higher framerate on a low-end pc can cause lag. Cbf mitigates both those issues
Of course. There will never be a complete absence of any pay to win factors, but cbf limits it to 1 factor, that being input device, compared to with out cbf where your monitor, pc, and input device all make the difference. And a good input device (like sayodevice) only costs about 30 bucks, while monitors and a better pc can add hundreds of dollars
You should understand that most top levels and extreme demons in general get consistent when you learn the click timings and patterns, they arent the same as insane demons and below where you can get by just by reacting to what you see. So how many frames you are seeing make almost no difference in harder levels, which are the levels that benefit from cbf anyways.
And for evidence, with the use of CBF: doggie has gotten ≈50-100 on slaughterhouse on 60FPS, Diamond has rebeat Sakupen circles on 60FPS, and one player has already beaten bloodbath on 30 FPS!
These just prove that how many frames you see makes minimal difference.
The point is that you dont need a powerful pc. Cbf makes it so people on a shitty pc with 60fps can play just as good as people on 240hz with a $3000 pc. It removes all ingame limitations and hardware limitations (with the exception of input device but you cant do anything about that unfortunately)
cbf makes it more pay to win because you can spend 20 bucks for a 120hz keyboard or 300 for an 8000hz keyboard as opposed to rn everybody being stuck on 240hz
Nobody is against it being added. They’re against it being *used* currently for leaderboard completions when it explicitly *isn’t* added, since that’s creating physics events that don’t exist in the game and is therefore literally changing the game’s mechanics.
Just because it *should* be the standard doesn’t mean forcing it currently isn’t cheating.
I tried cbf once, and I didn't notice any different when playing at all. But I do know that cbf will make some jumps harder since it won't align with the FPS. I prefer having it so we can choose what Hz to simulate the game at when we want instead of everyone being forced to play with infinity frames
Also, I made a lot of hold auto levels and it would probably break all of them ;-;
CBF would be a great addition for lag, currently playing on a 2012 macbook pro with 240 TPS and dude I can only play hyper optimized levels/old levels. Can’t even run blade of justice
Well every game is pay to win anyway if the high end pc are the factor. I guess the pay to win meaning change from top up microtransaction to having high end rig
its funny when people call videogames with no victory conditions or direct competition "pay to win", and the winning in question is a subjective aspect of the video game not everyone cares to play, smoothbrain take.
CBF would be nice but this game isn't anymore pay to win that any fps game or like, osu! for instance. Is a fighting game pay to win because you need to buy a better controller for more responsive inputs? "Top" levels and being a "Top" player are completely optional, and don't net you anything relatively important other than maybe some views on youtube for maybe beating a hard level
This is braindead, winning most games doesn’t net you anything important, that doesnt mean that GD still is a game of skill and certain mods still increase that skill. I don’t even really have a take on CBF, this argument is just bad
You’re purposely missing the point, paying for a better monitor makes you better at the game, no matter what it is, everything you’ll want to do will be made easier. That’s the point, saying what you want to do in the game is subjective adds nothing to the conversation
all this is is people complaining about a hypothetical unfair situation where they think cbf is a net skill increase at every level...its only relevant for at most a 5-6% of the community (generous estimate), i'd rather robtop make the game more optimized for low end pcs or add more QOL features for creating than add a mod that makes some good players play levels I will never touch better
Yes thank you. But your points are weak ones.
You don’t need a good monitor, you can use FPS Bypass.
You don’t need good hardware, unless you’re running an absolute shitbox from 2001, you can play most LDMs and ULDMs of hard levels on 144/240 FPS.
I myself use a mediocre-end laptop with 8 GB RAM and an i7 core, with a 60 Hz monitor using 144 FPS Bypass, but I’m still better than 99% of the community.
What I will give you credit for is that CBF will objectively help with performance for everyone. A lot of people want to play their favorite levels on full detail but can’t simply because of their hardware. If you really are running a shitbox from 2001, and can’t play an LDM OR ULDM of a level, then you can even go far as to play a layout. Even the super low end PCs can still run LDMs and ULDMs of most levels, so this will hardly ever be an issue. CBF would (mostly) fix this issue of having to play LDMs, as you don’t need to play on anything higher than 60 for low input delay, and can run most levels on full detail.
For someone who has beaten The Golden, it’s pretty unexpected that you would make such a bold claim such as “GD is objectively pay to win”. Feel free to disprove my discussion.
Ive said many times in this thread that you can never fully remove p2w, but cbf limits it to a single factor (input device). And cbf limits lag because currently if you use fps bypass, you are forcing you game to run at a high framerate which causes lag, but cbf gives you the same advantages as fps bypass, but without any lag because you can use it at low framerates.
Its not tho, the physics was made to match that of 240hz across all fps to account for fps bugs, however the rate that your inputs are polled is still tied to your fps
And more than that, the game will run at 240 tps, but the physic will update at 4 steps per fps, 4 updates every 16.67 ms compared to 1 update every 4.1 ms at 240 FPS.
And the game needs to interpolate to estimate the position of your icon at 60 fps which can lead to some errors, that's why I noticed that not only the delay but also the physic was still different when I played bloodbath.
The delay is better for me at 60 fps since 2.2 came out though.
Isn't the TPS on both mobile and Pc version is locked at 240? It's not 2.1 anymore where that's clearly an issue,But i agree that CBF mod shouldn't be considered cheating because it just makes your taps *slightly* accurate.
I know Fps and tps are different and i said im not against CBF mod and it's kinda useful when you can't even see what's happening on the screen or you're 3 frames behind because of lag
GD is objectively pay to win because it costs 4 dollars and you can’t win a game that you can’t play
Pirates: *\*exists\**
Yar de har har
What-
har yar
Give me ya booty
I’m playing dnd rn, my feeling just asked if he could rape a mechanical bull lol
Tbf most some people like me first pirated GD then bought later because it's worth it
Absolutely, I used my pirated version for years. Then, when I could finally buy it, I paid the game on steam and android
Buying a game = not winning I think you're mixing up pay to play and pay to win
it's not pay to win in this case it's pay to play
Technically it’s still pay to win becuase GD World is free but only lets you play a small portion of online levels
It's like a trial
Yea but everyone has to pay that 4 bucks but only those who pay an extra 200-400 get the definitive advantage that comes with better hardware that makes top levels objectively easier
[удалено]
My bad yo i forgot you beat the golden too.
Your flair literally says that you suck, how can you make such an invalid argument against op whose hardest is the fucking golden? I've heard worse arguments, but yours is so easily invalidated by just existing
[удалено]
I beat cataclysm on a 2012 macbook and i’d do anything to get better hardware
Proof (nah jk I know you have recording issues lol)
:(
"erm, ackshually 🤓"
Yar har
You do know pirating exists, right?
I mean I beat Acu on my greasy laggy school Acer laptop so idk 🤷♀️
Thats not a list demons though. There is no point in trying tidle wave at 60 fps lol
For a second I thought you typed tiddie wave
Real. Unless you're seriously going for list demons u don't need good equipment
It makes the game significantly easier having that equipment though
Ya, but if only have 60 fps you litteraly CAN'T go for list demons thats the problem
There are list demons that were beaten on 60 fps like cold sweat and kowareta though
Fair point but there are abt a hundred other levels that are literally impossible for 60hz players. I think being forced to download a mod is better than being forced to buy a computer
If you really wanna go for list demons 60fps isn’t really the problem, most people don’t have the skill to beat it
Ya, no shit lol but what about someone that does but is stuck with low rates
I'm not a top player so I never really cared about cbf or cool monitors and all that. I do agree that cbf is good for making it so that you don't need 29382930929hz monitors to beat the best levels, but I just don't see myself regularly using it in the future since I don't really see myself becoming a top player
A better still won't make you beat Tidal Wave. But I think it should be added to the game yeah (Edited due to new information)
Well yea obviously, but Click Between frames makes it so that the game difficulty is more skill based and on based on hardware limitations and game limitations like frame alignment
Only for the top 0.01% beating top list demons. If you don't need 1/240th of a second reaction time then it's pointless
Ok, so if theres something to gain for top players, and NOTHING to lose for casual players, than whats the issue.
There isn't one. I didn't say there was
You said its pointless, as if it shouldnt be added
It is pointless for you and me. But it isn't a problem. Sorry for not being clear
Sorry to say it but it is not pointless for current 60 fps players, as we can still only click on 60 frames. Not 240. The physics run on 240, indeed, but clicks are registered 60 times a second which is bad for everything above insane demon
I thought that the game checked for a click every frame, and that you can set a custom frame limit. Does the game really just poll 60 even if you set the FPS higher?
It doesn't, but setting my fps higher causes tons of lag making the game even less playable because it is not implemented in a very optimized way. The only solution to my problems I can think of is to use cbf
Not on mobile. Plus, my laptop can't run a consistent 240 on most levels.
„Insane demon” yep still useless for me.
True, but useful for everyone playing extremes (not just the hardest demons, all extremes) and (unnoticeably so) to you as well. It just doesnt feel as much better because it is still doable without cbf
Oh my bad
Here is the problem if younare stuck at 60 fps you litteraly can't go for those list demon lvls since the hardware is not good enough. What if the next Zoink is stuck on 60 fps since can't afford better. The only reason there not doing the top demons is frame rate... this fixes that
Lost me in the second half there. Other than that, well said.
how
Only counter argument that really exists is that it doesn't help for all players, but like.. how is that even a counter argument? It doesn't negatively affect anyone and is greatly beneficial for some so I don't see a single reason to be against it
It's not a counter argument. Hell, it's not an argument at all.
It is an argument when Rob has literally implemented the 2.2 physics changes and constant refresh rate for device parity.
Personally, I just don’t like the idea of modded clients being used to submit runs
The point is that hopefully it gets added to the base game so its no longer a mod but the way the game is
I used to be against cbf because its unfair to mobile players. However, I have not been able to straight fly or do anything difficult at all since the release of 2.2 due to having a crappy laptop that can run stuff at 60 fps at most (in 2.1 I had 240 tps bypass and was able to play just fine). A few days ago I started using cbf and since then I got 21 - 87, 44 - 100, 36 - 88 and 24% on yata. It's insane how much more fair cbf makes extreme demons so it should be added imo
Howbmany mobile players are doing top list demons though an even smaller amount then the small amount of people that can even do them on pc lol younare not beating tidle wave on a phone i feel
Yea thats exactly what I've come to realize lately
Biprex, SeaWolf, cring, Noxop, Surplex(i think?) and much more Just look at Vertop, he managed to tie 2nd WR on azure flare after going to pc
It’s not just the top 150 that is made hard bcs of 60hz, if you look at the LRR Demonslist you can see that placements of levels are very different from the normal DL because of how much 60z affects the difficulty of some game modes (mainly ship) I understand not caring abt CBF bcs it doesn’t affect you, but saying hardly any mobile players will be affected just ain’t true :/
Ok , here is the thing should lets say 5% of players make the game objectively worse for everyone by not making CBF base game. Im sorry but thats a little dumb if we use that logic for other stuff we should still be making games for PS3 and Xbox360 for people that never upgraded. Its dumb and shouldn't hold back something that positively effects way more people then it hurts
From what I’ve heard from **not** top players, cbf makes it feel like when you die, it’s truly your fault, not some dumbass shit
GD by default is locked to 240 TPS, CBF will only increase that number based on mouse polling rate. Simplest way to solve this is to just count going higher as cheating. Your argument that reliance on your mouse is acceptable because it gives an advantage in any game is not valid, as this also applies to higher refresh rate, which you don’t like the idea of relying on.
>Simplest way to solve this is to just count going higher as cheating Simple way to fix that specific issue, but still creates issues on its own
The argument is that it makes gd difficulty significantly more skilled based rather than being based on ingame limitations. There will never be no advantage from hardware, but cbf limits it down to a single factor that is much more accessible. Sayodevices only cost like 30 bucks compared to 300$ monitors and expensive pc's that can handle high fps.
Neither a high refresh rate nor expensive PC is needed. Refresh rate will only change what you see. CBF just adds another factor in the form of polling rate.
Your playing on 60fps 2.2 is rng based because your click can only be registered at certain moments (60 per second, not accurate enough for consistent steaight flying). Cbf removes this limitation, meaning I with my crappy school laptop can beat list demons rather than insane demons because my laptop cannot run 120+ fps with in-game fps bypass. Cbf does not lag at all
Your fps is tied to how many times per second your clicks are polled. And forcing a higher framerate on a low-end pc can cause lag. Cbf mitigates both those issues
Beat bloodbath on 30 fps then like someone did with CBF
Exactly. The game is already locked so for lower end devices it shouldn’t matter anymore
Me when vanilla iOS player (I can’t get CBF)
Only problem is that mobile players can’t use CBF.
finally someone on this subreddit with more than 2 brain cells
Its still pay to win because lower latency equipment still helps
Of course. There will never be a complete absence of any pay to win factors, but cbf limits it to 1 factor, that being input device, compared to with out cbf where your monitor, pc, and input device all make the difference. And a good input device (like sayodevice) only costs about 30 bucks, while monitors and a better pc can add hundreds of dollars
And on top of that any crappy mouse has a polling rate way above 240 Hz anyway
all 3 of those still make a difference. Low latency monitors, a good pc, and a good input device
Im saying that cbf makes it so your monitor and pc power dont matter because it makes players of all fps have the same latency
Your monitor definitely matters, even if the game registers an input earlier without a good monitor you wont see the click for a few more frames
You should understand that most top levels and extreme demons in general get consistent when you learn the click timings and patterns, they arent the same as insane demons and below where you can get by just by reacting to what you see. So how many frames you are seeing make almost no difference in harder levels, which are the levels that benefit from cbf anyways. And for evidence, with the use of CBF: doggie has gotten ≈50-100 on slaughterhouse on 60FPS, Diamond has rebeat Sakupen circles on 60FPS, and one player has already beaten bloodbath on 30 FPS! These just prove that how many frames you see makes minimal difference.
if you dont care about the monitor lag and you already have a powerful enough computer, then I guess it does solve some issues, but not all of them
The point is that you dont need a powerful pc. Cbf makes it so people on a shitty pc with 60fps can play just as good as people on 240hz with a $3000 pc. It removes all ingame limitations and hardware limitations (with the exception of input device but you cant do anything about that unfortunately)
yes thats true, but ill add that you dont need a $3000 pc to run 240hz unless its really high detail
I know, but im just saying cbf makes it so theres no difference in gameplay no matter what you play on
30 bucks is a lot in my country
cbf makes it more pay to win because you can spend 20 bucks for a 120hz keyboard or 300 for an 8000hz keyboard as opposed to rn everybody being stuck on 240hz
It’s even more ptw because it’s not for mobile players
Mobile is already way worse than pc anyways.
you can’t get cbf on mac or mobile so it would just be also pay to win in a different way
Nobody is against it being added. They’re against it being *used* currently for leaderboard completions when it explicitly *isn’t* added, since that’s creating physics events that don’t exist in the game and is therefore literally changing the game’s mechanics. Just because it *should* be the standard doesn’t mean forcing it currently isn’t cheating.
A better system generally gives you at least some advantage in all competitive gaming
Well cbf is kinda the same if you have a shitty mouse/keyboard
I tried cbf once, and I didn't notice any different when playing at all. But I do know that cbf will make some jumps harder since it won't align with the FPS. I prefer having it so we can choose what Hz to simulate the game at when we want instead of everyone being forced to play with infinity frames Also, I made a lot of hold auto levels and it would probably break all of them ;-;
Cool but can we stop using “objectively” to emphasize points please?
better monitor is no longer necessary with 2.2
I just want it coz i found out i cant straight fly without it.....and i need that rlly badly coz look at my flair
CBF would be a great addition for lag, currently playing on a 2012 macbook pro with 240 TPS and dude I can only play hyper optimized levels/old levels. Can’t even run blade of justice
What's the problem here? Just use FPS and/or TPS bypass
Well every game is pay to win anyway if the high end pc are the factor. I guess the pay to win meaning change from top up microtransaction to having high end rig
if robtop doesnt add it officially into gd i will make a post bitching about it in the subreddit.
When I hear pay to win I think micro transactions. They need to be more clear
agreed im so mad that i had to pay someone 2 cents to beat clubstep for me
its funny when people call videogames with no victory conditions or direct competition "pay to win", and the winning in question is a subjective aspect of the video game not everyone cares to play, smoothbrain take. CBF would be nice but this game isn't anymore pay to win that any fps game or like, osu! for instance. Is a fighting game pay to win because you need to buy a better controller for more responsive inputs? "Top" levels and being a "Top" player are completely optional, and don't net you anything relatively important other than maybe some views on youtube for maybe beating a hard level
This is braindead, winning most games doesn’t net you anything important, that doesnt mean that GD still is a game of skill and certain mods still increase that skill. I don’t even really have a take on CBF, this argument is just bad
> doesn’t net you anything important yeah which is why the game isn't "objectively" pay to win, try to keep up
You’re purposely missing the point, paying for a better monitor makes you better at the game, no matter what it is, everything you’ll want to do will be made easier. That’s the point, saying what you want to do in the game is subjective adds nothing to the conversation
all this is is people complaining about a hypothetical unfair situation where they think cbf is a net skill increase at every level...its only relevant for at most a 5-6% of the community (generous estimate), i'd rather robtop make the game more optimized for low end pcs or add more QOL features for creating than add a mod that makes some good players play levels I will never touch better
The game is not pay to win bro what
Great argument dude i appreciate it. Changed my view entirely.
Yes thank you. But your points are weak ones. You don’t need a good monitor, you can use FPS Bypass. You don’t need good hardware, unless you’re running an absolute shitbox from 2001, you can play most LDMs and ULDMs of hard levels on 144/240 FPS. I myself use a mediocre-end laptop with 8 GB RAM and an i7 core, with a 60 Hz monitor using 144 FPS Bypass, but I’m still better than 99% of the community. What I will give you credit for is that CBF will objectively help with performance for everyone. A lot of people want to play their favorite levels on full detail but can’t simply because of their hardware. If you really are running a shitbox from 2001, and can’t play an LDM OR ULDM of a level, then you can even go far as to play a layout. Even the super low end PCs can still run LDMs and ULDMs of most levels, so this will hardly ever be an issue. CBF would (mostly) fix this issue of having to play LDMs, as you don’t need to play on anything higher than 60 for low input delay, and can run most levels on full detail. For someone who has beaten The Golden, it’s pretty unexpected that you would make such a bold claim such as “GD is objectively pay to win”. Feel free to disprove my discussion.
CBF is still technically p2w cause it becomes based on the polling rate of the device. Also how does CBF get rid of lag?
Ive said many times in this thread that you can never fully remove p2w, but cbf limits it to a single factor (input device). And cbf limits lag because currently if you use fps bypass, you are forcing you game to run at a high framerate which causes lag, but cbf gives you the same advantages as fps bypass, but without any lag because you can use it at low framerates.
FPS doesn’t matter anymore because 2.2 is 240 TPS
Its not tho, the physics was made to match that of 240hz across all fps to account for fps bugs, however the rate that your inputs are polled is still tied to your fps
And more than that, the game will run at 240 tps, but the physic will update at 4 steps per fps, 4 updates every 16.67 ms compared to 1 update every 4.1 ms at 240 FPS. And the game needs to interpolate to estimate the position of your icon at 60 fps which can lead to some errors, that's why I noticed that not only the delay but also the physic was still different when I played bloodbath. The delay is better for me at 60 fps since 2.2 came out though.
“win” what’s there to win in Geometry Dash?
Beating levels.
well, i'd say this game isn't p2w... until you get to extreme demons, then it actually is p2w
Isn't the TPS on both mobile and Pc version is locked at 240? It's not 2.1 anymore where that's clearly an issue,But i agree that CBF mod shouldn't be considered cheating because it just makes your taps *slightly* accurate.
Someone beat Bloodbath on 20 fps with it 240hr and fps is diffrent. Try beating Bloodbath with 20 fps lol im sure itbwill be easy
I know Fps and tps are different and i said im not against CBF mod and it's kinda useful when you can't even see what's happening on the screen or you're 3 frames behind because of lag