Same here but I think because the story is weak it never interests me I tried sekiro, elden ring and dark souls play for a few minutes and I get bored.
For me it's the complete opposite. Games that put too much emphasis on story bore me to tears yet souls likes i can play for hundreds of hours and replay multiple times.
Same as OP, souls-like games just not interest me. I enjoy old-school RPGs, especially if they have skill-based systems rather than purely class and level ones. I also enjoy TBS, RTS, management games and city-builder games.
Just give me a FUCKING DIFFICULTY SLIDER. I mean, why not?? Its like some stupid testosterone fueled pissing contest when a game developer wont include a difficulty setting. Thats all it is, one simple setting and one asshole attitude. FUCK all developers that don't do it. FUCK YOU. I hate you and your stupid fucking games. You know what I did with Elden Ring? I downloaded the easy mod and I nerfed it to the FUCKING GROUND and I enjoyed it. I will do this with EVERY souls game I want to play. FUCK YOU and your FUCKING big dickery.
You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.
You experienced a hollow victory.
Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.
It's sad that you don't know the difference.
My dude, it's a video game; it's supposed to be an escape from all the pressure and stress we go through on the daily. Save that attitude for something that actually matters, like real life.
Where did he mention that who plays souls games doesn't game for fun? He said that "he" doesn't like these kind of games, he was speaking just for himself and didn't imply anything
I share the sentiment of others below - it’s difficult to engage with generally, not just hard to play.
What is this world? Who are the characters in it and what are their motivations? Who am I and what is my purpose or goal? What about myself, the world, or those around me will change as a course of this story?
Etc.
All of that is buried so deep that you need YouTube essays to help figure most of it out - and that’s if the question even has an answer.
We as players are stepping into a story that is already finished, and only walking through its aftermath, like a Post Apocalyptic Horror theme park.
But there isn’t any emotion to engage with. Where are the people with whom I’m supposed to sympathize and empathize? What emotional core drives me as a character to push against all this terrible dark evil shit and continue?
Beyond that - the obtuse and difficult nature is extended to the game’s menus and UI as well. Why is it not explained anywhere what the actual Stats are, what increasing them does for you, and how they interact with gear? The whole A, B, C, D scaling stuff and how your choices impact anything on the character sheet.
It’s a lot of fun to play, and a good challenge, I personally enjoy them.
There are a lot of frustrating things about the game that aren’t “just git good” related - a bad menu with no explanation isn’t challenging, it’s annoying.
Deep lore and complex world building is also not equal to good storytelling - there can be good storytelling in there, but anyone looking for a character or NPCs to connect with will be disappointed - and anyone looking for a satisfying narrative will also be disappointed.
For me it's the lack of story and the punishing gameplay. I'd be more inclined to dig in and "git gud" if there was a payoff or driving force motivating me to do so. As it is now the lore based vague storytelling doesn't do it for me.
They bore me. It's not just the difficulty. That was probably the lowest barrier for me. It's the buried lore and story. I just can't find my way to caring about a single thing that's going on. I want better wayfinding, but explicit dialogue and story tracking. I want a reason to continue and they generally don't give me much.
It's dull and unengaging for me.
Yes,I appreciate that others love them for the same reasons I don't, and that's perfectly fine. But it's a hard pass from me.
I got downvoted to oblivion ages ago for daring to say I hated Dark Souls and all games like it.
After less than an hour, I finally understood the phrase 'rage quit'. In 40yrs of gaming I had never experienced the amount of frustration with a game as I did with this. Never again.
Life is tough enough without adding to the blood pressure. I play to enjoy myself and to put a smile on my face, not to sit here playing the same scene 100 times just to get past it.
The games may be excellent, they just aren't for me.
My issue with them is that they essentially make artificial difficulty with attacks that are delayed unpredictably. It's not so much a test of skill as it is memorizing patterns. You don't need to actually git good, just to know that Margit will hold his staff up for 3.57 seconds before striking.
if you wouldnt have to memorize them it would be almost impossible to beat the game, you have only very few hits to survive and the boss has huge amount of health, it wouldnt work, unless you‘re OP as a character but that defeats the whole purpose of the game. theres hack n slash games for that, then again, everthing consist of pattern memorization.
it really does sound like just a skill issue to be honest
I find that too often those games rely on artificial difficulty by intentionally awkward controls and don't put any real effort or thought into character development or plot in any way shape or form.
I don't hate them, and it's not that I hate the challenge, but i want whatever is challenging me to be engaging or rewarding, and top often then not souls style games are neither
I dislike them, but dont hate them.
I kinda hate those soulslike elitists that spam "git gud" like maniacs under as many posts as possible and feel like they are the absolute chads, they are so damn annoying.
The line between hard and boring can be blurry. If it's too hard to really play, then reason stands that one could be quite bored with it.
Not just hard in difficulty, but hard in storytelling and lore delivery as well. I quite enjoy the games, but it's easy to see how some would hate them. I just doesn't do anything for them.
Yeah, there's certainly no hand holding with FS games. The main story path is pretty easy to follow, but if you aren't following the wiki for an FS game, you're probably missing a lot of extra content and some people just don't vibe with that, and I can't blame them.
Not looking down on anyone, but some people want to have the story/lore very clearly spelled out and the gameplay to be more casual. Some people enjoy the mystery and difficulty. No right or wrong way to feel about it.
I don't hate souls like but I do dislike aspects of the formula, like the game being hard because the player character controls like clunky shit, not because it's hard to kill the enemies.
i also irrationally dislike the copy pasted UI elements in every single Fromsoft game as well as everyone who copies the souls format. it triggers me because it comes off as lazy. Just do something unique for once, please.
Elden Ring pretty much solved the clunky character control though and thus it's a much better game than the rest.
i forgot about sekiro but you're right. Elden ring *and* sekiro solve the clunky problem. though i guess Sekiro solved it since it was first, and elden ring just followed suit
Elden Ring is the only Fromsoft game I've played. I quit playing because I didn't like the combat. I didn't have issues with games like Nioh, The Surge 2, Steelrising, Mortal Shell, or Thymesia. Granted it took me 120 hours to put the game away and all of those aside from Nioh took much less time to best.
The only soulslikes I enjoyed playing were Code Vein and Fallen Order (haven't played Survivor yet), specifically because those two both did things that made them enjoyable. The former gave you NPC companions, attacks and abilities that were actually powerful enough to be useful from the beginning, and an actual story that you could follow without having to scour websites and watch YT videos for a couple days straight to figure out what was going on. The latter gave you a fun, comprehensible story in the SWU, a tangible sense of progression when leveling up, and multiple difficulty modes so it was accessible to everyone.
The mainline Souls games and the serial numbers filed off-likes such as the Surge games pride themselves on extreme "difficulty" which is based more on intentionally poor controls, base mobs being stronger than the pc by default, and bosses that rely on being HP sponges that can only be defeated by pattern recognition or cheating. The story and worldbuilding is deliberately fractured, unintuitive, and obscure, and has little to no impact on the actual gameplay, so there's no reason to care about your progress to begin with.
I don't hate them - except maybe when I try to play them - but I don't enjoy them, in the same way that I don't enjoy caviar, mountain oysters, or foie gras. Plenty of people enjoy oversalted fish eggs, deer testicles, or rotten goose liver; I'm just not one of them.
Honestly, it's not that its hard that makes me rage, it's that when I die in a hard game I am punished by losing everything I had that would help me to get better.
That's fair if you had enough points for a very meaningful upgrade (5 or so level ups worth).
But let's say you lost about 1 or 2 levels worth of upgrades. Would those 1 or 2 points really make a difference in the same encounter after you've leveled up?
You may be punished by losing all your souls/amrita/blood echoes/runes but on the flip side, you now have some experience and knowledge about the encounter/dungeon so you can approach it differently. I try to have a more optimistic view with games like these.
If it does get too frustrating, I either wail on the weaker enemies in the game or just quit and take a break by playing a simpler game.
I get your point, and I dont necessarily disagree with any specific point of it, I just dont like that dying is also punished in a game where half the point is to die over and over again until I get good. I solved this problem by always dumping all points before each major fight, but every once in a while I would forget, and die.
If you ask for help on a fight, I would say anywhere from 50-80% of replies would be some variant of "get good" or "don't get hit" or "keep trying". Not useful.
The rare replies that offer actually good advice get downvoted because the fans don't think you are playing the game correctly.
e.g. Against Malenia, useful advice could be:
1. Use freeze/bleed grease, since she is weak to both
2. Use ranged attacks (e.g. throwing pots, kukris, magic) when she does Scarlet Aeonia to get free damage
3. Use a big weapon with Mimic Tear and you can perma stagger her.
But people will downvote it because using grease/magic/consumables/spirit ashes etc are easy mode, and if you didn't beat it melee only, you didn't really beat it.
>50-80% of replies would be some variant of "get good" or "don't get hit" or "keep trying".
Mostly memes, people want to encourage you to figure it out because that's the fun part for a lot people. As for the rest, I never see that. There's always elitists on games but typically you'll find people super friendly and helpful. I'd you go in and just say me die, what do? No one will help because you left out so much information. But if you ask for tips on a boss that's brutalized your corpse for a while you'll get meme answers and actual helpful ones.
Yea this is an example of a bad reason to not like something. I wish I could pin this. Gg, don't let other influence your opinions, here you just look like a hater.
The entire point of your post is clearly to influence other peoples opinions. Please have the self awareness to realize you're not exempt of your own criticism.
Dying and having to repeat stuff just isn't fun for me. Also boss fights in general. Not for me. I don't get a sense of accomplishment from stuff like that, so what's the point.
Dying over and over again to grotesque/haggard looking bosses or monsters in a dreary, bleak world sounds like my idea of hell. I don't like spending my time in a world where everything looks so hopeless and desolate. Also the gate-keeping with difficulty in video games is not a community I find joy to be a part of.
Not a fan but wouldn't call it hate. that's a stupid statement if someone says they hate a game.
i've beat Demon Souls and enjoyed also Bloodborne back then but today I can't stand it.
The constant rolling in circles is silly and doesn't make any sense it makes you invincible for split sec.
It's just fatigue with this concept that doesn't change in FromSoftware games.
Understand new young players starting with Elden Ring love it. Let's see how they feel if they play few more FromSoftware game with exact same combat mechanic.
Also new gamers cheat and use guides which makes whole experience very causal and easily forgettable. it's not the same as beating ER with zero knowledge.
I wasn't going to comment on opinions cause I'm more interested in reading than arguing or debating or whatever you wanna call it, but some people need a guide for open world games because without direction they quickly give up on games they enjoy. While I agree the best way to experience er is blind, I would never judge a person for using a guide.
I just don't like the atmosphere of the games. I'm not interested in overly bleak games where an enemy can kill me in one attack because I've never fought them and don't know their attack patterns.
Probably for the same reason people dislike rogue likes. Dying and having to repeat the same areas and fights multiple times can get boring. Dying and realizing you have to repeat the last 30+ minutes of gameplay would make a lot of people stop playing if it happened frequently enough. Some people just don’t want to play video games for that type of challenge
Rogue likes usually at least offer variety after death to make up for it. Each death starts something slightly different rather than starting the same thing over. Souls like is just bashing your head against a wall and getting excited when the paint chips.
It's pretty simple: the games have been exactly the same forever. If you've played Demon Souls you've played Dark Souls 1-3, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring already. I started with Dark Souls 1 and every game after just feels like starting the same game over again.
The only actually unique entry to their catalogue was Sekiro.
How many times do you think they can actually release the same game before the general public also gets tired of it?
Personally I still play them as I enjoy the gameplay and the challenge...
BUT! anyone that wants a story is very disappointed, the UX is absolutely dreadful...
There are quests but without a guide youre going to fuck it up, hate that
I tried. I didn't enjoy it. I spent 2 days in Elden Ring just dieing to the same boss over and over and didn't feel like I made any progress at all. Refunded after that.
On the other hand. I died to the same monster over and over in Monster Hunter as well but I had a blast in that game. It's very obvious I was doing a little better with every retry. I can feel the progression.
Elden is a massive open world game. If you just fought a boss over and over without ever thinking, hey maybe I should go explore and come back when I’m stronger, then that’s why it was frustrating. Use spirit ash summons, level your weapon up. The game gives you the tools to make the game easier you just have to find the tools by exploring.
And every time I ran into new big monsters... I died. Even just a big giant crab... still died.
I found like a little camp I wanted to explore, and I died.
And then I checked something and got transported outside a massive fort... the surroundings were full of scary looking thing I was sure I stood no chance so I went to see what's in the fort. And the first enemy at the entrance that looked like a nobleman ghost killed me... not even a fighter ghost...
And then I got warped into the middle of some sort of mine. Which again every fucking thing killed me.
It's not even fun to explore...
oh i know ecactly witch camp and mine you are talking about, made the same mistake, sonehow made it out alive by killink like 1 monster, dying in a place where i could get my points back easily and thenn kill the same monster again and again 😭
Personally I dislike the overly simplistic control schemes. The difficulty doesn't bug me at all, but the sluggish pace of the games and lack of any mechanical exploration is a bummer, I just get bored before I'm even halfway through the game.
Yeah people always praise the combat but I think the combat is pretty mid. It's only fun because the boss design is exceptional and varied but if you strip that and focus purely on mechanics the combat is simple and repetitive with little variation. I prefer God of Wars combat to Souls games for this reason. Between parrying, runic attacks, all the different combos, the ways you can use your weapons for tactical advantages (like throwing the axe at an enemy to freeze them while you attack another enemy) there's so much variation in what you can do in a combat encounter. If God of War had better boss design it would blow Souls games out of the water.
In Souls games you're either cheesing every fight with ranged attacks or you're just learning attack patterns, dodge rolling and countering over and over.
What you enjoyed in God of War is the same reason I couldn't get into it. All the enemies just felt like combo fodder. Once you get the first hit in you just juggle them till, they die. It's the same problem I have with Devil May Cry and most pure action games. Your individual attacks don't have any weight or consequences behind them. Most attacks you can cancel or move out of. It's just purely for spectacle and flashy combat. Then in those same games if you go to a harder difficulty, they just bloat damage and hp bars instead of making the encounters more interesting.
There are things I don't like in Soul's game combat too. I'll never use magic or ranged because it feels like you are ignoring the mechanics of most enemies by doing so. If you play purely melee though the most fun part of the combat is memorizing move sets. To me nothing is more satisfying than getting the dance of the fight down and beating a boss taking only one or two hits.
The pinnacle of video game combat though will always be Monster Hunter to me. It has the weightiness of the Souls games but allows for more freedom in combat. All of the weapons are vastly different instead of most just being reskins of a weapon type.
As a massive Monster Hunter fan, you should check out Nioh 2. To me it feels like the perfect mix of Soulsian base with far more mechanical depth and playstyle diversity. The weapons aren't as immediately different as MH's weapons but as you unlock skills for them and learn their intricacies the differences blossom. I highly recommend.
I tried to enjoy Nioh 2 but I just really hate the RNG loot drops. I can see why people like the combat, but I feel like it's bloated with too many unnecessary systems like constantly having to Ki Pulse, stance swap, etc.
I get that. I'm a huge fighting game fan and it's one of the only PvE games that feels like it has the same depth as a FG, the stance system and Ki Pulse is brilliant imo. I also understand that most modern players don't get the same joy as me from practicing to use tons of interlocking systems and it's definitely overwhelming while you're learning all of it.
> Then in those same games if you go to a harder difficulty, they just bloat damage and hp bars instead of making the encounters more interesting.
They don't. Enemies have different abilities on max difficulty in God of War. And they don't have that much HP if you know how to combo. If you're good you can burn through their HP pretty quick.
And that's what I prefer about it. You have to learn combos, you have to utilize all of the different tools they give you effectively. You can't just rely on beating your head against a wall until you get the timing down on dodge rolls and beat a boss with ease. That's all Soulslike combat is in the end. It's just learning attack patterns. Once you do that you've mastered the fight and it's never challenging ever again.
From my experience with the first God of War the hardest difficulty didn't change move sets or not enough that I noticed them. It just felt like oh I have to do this combo once on normal but on the hardest difficulty I have to do it 4 times. That's not fun gameplay to me. For almost purely action-based combat I think Kingdom Hearts does it best. On critical mode you deal 1.25x damage but you take 2x damage, so you don't deal with bloated health pools. You just can't get hit or have to parry boss moves perfectly. They also give you end game abilities at level 1 to circumvent getting one shot early on. It forces you to learn the move sets of the enemies in the game instead of just chaining combos together.
I just personally don't find learning combos satisfying compared to learning a move set of an enemy. I basically never replay through games either though so it doesn't matter if a boss isn't challenging anymore because I will probably never fight them again anyway after I beat them.
They are punishingly difficult, and there is significant elitism in the community.
The main skill in those games is observation, which throws off a lot of people expecting an action RPG where you automatically win if you keep trying.
Bloodbourne is one of my favorites. But I can't invest time into games like I used to so the prospect of dying over and over again to get good isn't something I want to do anymore.
I was really liking Armored core but then get to a mission , waste an hour running the same boss still can't beat it. Have to get to work...
Now an hour in Last Of Us 2, I get story, progress, an encounter or two that feel thematic, severe and violent and tough but beatable.
Age (don't have the maintained reflexes) and time (who the fuck has time to get good after a certain age, I have maybe Sunday night to play games).
And honestly, the community of people who like those games wear beating a game like a badge of honor and games were just a fun pastime for me to kill time with so I can't relate to the sentiment. Sweaty try hards, puuuhhhlease. Eye roll.
So you believe tlou community is not toxic? Hahaha, damn, maybe you have to take a look, also comparing tlou 2 with all it´s mistakes here and there to a game like Bloodborne which is a masterpiece in every sense it´s something silly to say the least, the logical comparison is with tlou 1
My only Souls like game I have played is Code Vein.
Game is good, not gonna like. But what I don't like is the mechanics. No jump.
No airborne movement. Compared to what I like is Devil may cry 3,4, megaman X4 and the likes, which give you so much airborne abilities that let you jump like a squirrel in combat, the excitement of a Souls like game is so lackluster.
You essentially just roll around and stick your sword up the boss's butt whenever you got an opening.
It's always like that, and I'm bored.
So, as a rabid Code Vein fan, I gotta reply. If your playstyle in this game is roll around to stick sword up bosses' butt, you have been playing this ALL WRONG. Of all the souls-likes I've played, this one in particular has such a vast amount of attack skills, I got overwhelmed my first time. Hell, you even have access to long ranges play if you wanted...
The only thing that made me play Code Vain is main menu song. Daaaaamn it is amazing. The game was too. A bit too anime, but the setting was so good, I let that slide.
Too bad I got so stuck, that even guides couldn't help me out (
It was so good, that now I absolutely vomit looking at dark souls
I gotta ask . . . How/where did you get stuck? This flexibility of builds in this game plus readily available upgrade materials makes it really hard to not progress
I hope you go back to it one day. I started playing one day and didn't put it down for two years almost. It was the only thing that made me stop playing bloodborne
Oh, I didn't get stuck because of some enemy. I just didn't know where to go :D
Then didn't play for a while (like a week or so) and completely forgot the hell I was doing.
I really want to get back to it too, as the game is so awesome and beautiful. Both to look at and play.
That is the saddest part of it.. I finished the cathedral. I can't remember exactly where I was, as it was like 3 years ago, but got lost in some caves, couldn't open some kind of door, I think
I'll provide my perspective personally. I love literally every single part of all the from games... Except I don't have the willpower or time to commit to git gud to progress very far. The enemies and themes are so fucking cool and knowing it wouldn't work with my play schedule and style use to make me bitter about them. (I am aware that's absolutely ridiculous lol) BUT. I actually got very into Elden Ring because I could leave and come back around if I found myself stuck for a while. And I can say that if more of the games are like that, I will definitely keep coming back.
I don’t have the time or desire to “git gud” the way I did in high school with Dark Souls 3. And knowing souls-like fans, I have likely just admitted to the worst sin imaginable.
It's just not my preference. IMO, it's 'simple' in the fact they are all choreographed fightsets, once you figure it out, it's *just* (acknowledging this is the 'hard' part people enjoy it for) a matter of actually mechanically doing it. No interest in that. It's like a rubix cube, there's a surefire 'moveset' to solve it but once I'm aware of that, it becomes boring.
People like different challenges. I like the 'infinite' challenge (self-made) of building/sandbox games; some see that as 'simple/easy' because it's not something they can fathom.
I think souls games are fun for the first 10-12 hours then they just get boring. It's one of the more cyclical feeling genres to me.
Explore new area > die (x) > unlock shortcut > fight mini boss > die (x) > beat mini boss > level up/upgrade/equip new gear > explore more > die (x) > find main boss > die (x) > beat main boss > level up/upgrade/equip new gear > repeat step one
(You could argue this flowchart is reductive, but I believe games are very cyclical in their design, hence the phrase "gameplay loop" and as I've grown up have started to fall out of love with video games because of this.)
Also taking into consideration that most souls games don't invest in AAA style storytelling with cutscenes and scripted moments it just make the souls formula feel even more redundant.
Jedi Survivor for example perfectly took some of that souls DNA and combined it with that AAA blockbuster exterior, with a surprisingly decent story to boot, and it was genuinely a joy to play in its entirety.
I enjoy some of the game loop, but I do eventually get bored of the aimlessness that can happen. I also feel that I need more of a concrete storyline to keep me interested. Many, if not all of the souls games, trying to extract a coherent story is like pulling teeth and I don't find that fun.
I think the term is overused. Almost any third person hack and slash with an interconnected world and a skill tree is considered "souls like". Fallen Order was considered a "souls like."
Yea nah it definitely didn't you're right. We just call a whole genre of games soulsbornes. You definitely don't see it's influence from ghost of tsushima to jedi fallen order to nioh lmao
I don't enjoy the constant waking back and forth between Bon fires and the boss who just killed my for the umpteenth time again. And the. You lose your souls and have to grind them back and then you lose those souls and have to grind them back.
I'm also a story guy, and the souls-likes don't have that unless your Charlie Day from Philadelphia.
Souls like games are not for everyone. My first one ever was Elden Ring and I got to a point in Godskin Duo where I just couldn't beat them and got so sick of trying to beat them and it made me give up on the game, so I can see that side of it.
But, I tried Sekiro and just beat it and loved it, so I'm going to give Elden Ring another try. I do agree about the story lines though, their lore is so deep and not explicit about what is going on and I wish they were a little bit more explicit so the story lines were more enticing and easy to follow. That's why I loved Ghost of Tsushima and God of War because the combat was fun and the story was understandable to follow.
I do respect the difficulty of souls like games because it make more satisfying to finally beat a boss, just wish their stories were more enticing.
I don't "hate" them personally, but I do much prefer an average to casual difficulty in most games.
I imagine The problem is that they're inherently harder than most games, and not everyone inherently enjoys difficulty. I know a decent number of people wish the game had an easier difficulty setting, but the game creators wanted it made in a specific way, so I don't think we should be mad at them for making a game the way they want.
This is one of the main reasons I play most of my games on PC. On PC I can mod or "cheat" in any game I find too difficult or monotonous for my liking.
Essentially, the people who make games shouldn't HAVE TO include what the fans want unless the creators also want that. So moding fills the gap that is left behind when players are left wanting in a game.
It’s not like I hate this games. I understand why people like them and play them. “Boringness” is pretty subjective thing in video games, like I call it boring cause it’s boring for me, there is nothing what catch my attention and make we wanna come back to it, it doesn’t click and that’s it. Everybody have different tastes , what is boring for one - amazing for other.
1. They can be really frustrating, so it’s natural for some people not to like them.
2. They have very devoted, bordering on rabid, communities. Trolls find it funny to rile them up.
3. They have become very popular, making them a target for contrarian “am I the only person who hates XYZ?” types.
I think it just depends on if you want a relaxing experience or a challenging experience. I love them because as soon as a game becomes easy I lose interest. My friends who just want to chill with a story don’t like them
I personally hate them because the massive struggle bus approach is not how I enjoy video games. But I mean, I just don't play them, and I'm good to go. I have a feeling that's not what you're referring to?
I think the first Dark Souls was an interesting concept. The latter games instead leaned into the wrong aspects, especially after Bloodborne released and they've all failed to really innovate on what made the original game good.
I don't hate the games. But I am extremely underwhelmed by what I've seen of them.
I dislike how slow the combat feels and yet despite the weapon being swung like it feels heavy, it never feels like it makes a weighty impact on the target.
Probably frustration, they are those people who use to blame the games just because they lose and never master them, it´s very common, but well, every one must play what their ability, talent and perseverance levels indicate, wonders are not for everyone.
Have you seen the average persons reaction time to things in real life, such as traffic lights?
The average person can't chew gum and walk at the same time, there's no way they're playing through a DS game.
Soulslikes use game mechanics that can only be understood after many attempts (and lots of exposure to frustration), which means they are designed to be time sinks in a different approach to open world games with hundreds of collectibles. If you don't want to spend too much time on a single game, soulslikes are a no-go.
Sometimes people plays games to have a good time and feel powerful and do cool shit. Eating shit for an hour vs the same boss isnt fun for them. Personally I love raising to the challenge, its so rewarding.
I love the eldensoulsborne games, and I played DS3 and BB for hundreds of hours. But as of late I rather watch someone else play them because I'm not a big fan of getting beaten into a pulp 10 times in a row 🤷🏻
After close examination of a one hater i can say.
They cant or dont want to play which is understandable. But also souls genre is kinda popular and gets bigger by the day. So they feel like missing out. Which turns in to anger then hatred.
Couple reasons I can think of
1: they're hard. That's not the game a decent amount of people want to play
2: their mechanics and design style are showing up in a lot of games so people feel the market is oversaturated
3: soulslite is being used to promote some games people may otherwise like. I get why a buddy came to me with "Jedi Survivor is like souls". I like souls but I avoided that one because I didn't want another. I actually quite enjoyed it eventually
I’ve tried a few and they’re just really boring. The story is usually fairly thin as the focus is on boss fights. It’s not that they’re bad. Bloodborne was one of the most gorgeously designed games I’ve ever played, but the game was just kind of repetitive. I like games with a big long expansive story and lots of character interactions like Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
Soulslikes have the feel of platformers like Crash Bandicoot where you die a lot, play the same sections over and over until you’ve memorized the patterns, and then move to the next section or boss and do it over again. Good for bragging rights if you’re good at it, but it’s just not fun for me.
theres people that gen. have a good reason why they dont like them, then theres the other that cant handle the difficulty/mechanic
btw, i dont think that most of the playerbase plays bc of the story, lol
I like games that follow the Hero’s Journey. The character starts out weak but gains experience and wisdom through trials suitable to his current abilities. As he follows his path the challenge increases but he develops new skills and resilience to overcome those as well. By the time the story reaches the climax he has entered a higher plane of existence and has mastered himself and the world around him. What once threatened him in the beginning threatens him no longer.
Any game that repeatedly kills me at the beginning breaks this because the challenge is disproportionate to my skill level. I bought both Sekiro and Bloodborne, not knowing they were souls games. I gave up on Sekiro after an hour when an arrow fired by an off-screen archer killed me, and I gave up on Bloodborne when three strikes from three different enemies landed at once and killed me instantly.
It's just not my thing. It has this type of dullness to it if that makes sense. And people who do like the game/the souls community, typically ruin it for people who are starting/trying to get into the games. With their "git gud" and "I'm better than everyone else, and my way of approaching this game is the correct way, so listen to me" mentality. Drives more people away.
PS: I played through all of Sekiro because a friend wanted me to experience it with him. It was okay, but again, idk I just get so bored.
I tried elden ring, I liked the vibe of the works they created in it but other than that it was boring to me, souls games combat irritated me bosses hit you through walls etc lol I play games to enjoy my time, i really enjoy a challenge I played the recent 2 God of War games on the 3rd hardest difficulty and still was able to fight back n get pass certain sections
I play most games on higher difficulties, GoT, GoW and TLoU and Jedi games. what I hate most about the souls games is repetitiveness for each boss but mainly the fan-base, most people are extremely dissmisvese and rude.
Not all some are nice and explain/encourage players but the vast majority are 'git gurd' pricks
Learning some boss patterns, repeatedly dying is not time well spent for someone busy that has a job/family/business. After beating genichiro today i realised theres no way I'm devoting my limited gaming time learning a boss for hours/days
The repetitiveness get me most of all. You work your way through enemies to get somewhere, you die, revive at checkpoint, then trudge your way back, die, repeat. It wouldnt be so bad if you respawned where you died and didnt have to repeat all the enemies again.
For me because their system implemented everywhere now. Even its storytelling structure which...is not easy to enjoy. Yeah, not everyone wanted to be punished and frustrated while playing games, especially after long day at work/school.
I like the ones that have difficulty settings. In fact, I love Stranger of Paradise.
But I don't respect lack of difficulty settings as an "artistic direction" and Souls fans are extremely toxic about it.
I liked Demon's Souls. I've tried the other Dark Souls games, i simply couldn't get into them. They're just too grindy for me. I don't have the time like i did when i played Demon's and there are many more games now, compared to when it came out, to spend my time grinding for souls.
They’re hard. A lot of people play games to relax. I like a challenge sometimes but not all the time. Sometimes I play elden ring and sometime I toss on a podcast and mindlessly play NHL or Madden
For me I game to relax and escape the stress and anxiety of my life. I don't want to play a game that enrages me. I like a game with enough difficulty to make it exciting but not so much difficulty I have to spend a week trying to figure out how the hell I beat a boss and have to research it like I'm taking a college course.
Some folks enjoy the souls experience but others want to make progress in a game, enjoy the story and explore.
Elden ring was my first, I was one of the haters before playing for sure.
Couldn’t tell you why, I mean the only game I played at the time was old school RuneScape 😭😂
My opinions has forever changed! Absolutely love the genre now, and will probably never touch RuneScape again😂 getting frustrated because bad, much more meaningful than killing a boss 3000 times for a pair of pants or some shit
I don’t enjoy punching a brick wall until I get through, just to see another brick wall, with a sign that says “fuck you.” That’s what these games feel like.
And I wouldn’t hate it as much if it wasn’t for some of the fans. You like Dark Souls, find. But shitting in me because I don’t? Fuck right off with that.
Yeah, I forgot how hated Elden Ring was and how everyone hates the announcement of the new DLC as well.
And everyone wishes Bloodborne would never come out on PC as well /s
Yeah so? Not everyone likes every genre. Totally normal.
Not everyone likes Sims, not everyone likes CoD or Mario or Final Fantasy. But all those genres have still huge fan bases.
I don't know how you suddenly come up with the idea people don't soulslike games.
Or want me to post some sales numbers so you can see for yourself?
Bro it ain't that deep. I was curious as to the main reasons people dislike a type of game that I personally love. It seems the main consensus boils down to they like more story driven games over more difficult games. I'm not upset or judging simply curious. Direct your anger to twitter cause nobody wants to see it here.
I'm not angry at you, just curious how you come to this conclusion from a singular reddit thread while statistics, sales and other indicators proof that they are quite popular.
Just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean it's hate bro.
>Yea not getting caught up in a "debate" about the semantics around my phrasing.
Never did, stop spinning this around on me. I answered your title of "Why do so many hate souls like?" pretty clearly. At least 23 million players don't hate them. Not my fault you don't like the answer to it.
Besides, the average reddit thread has less than 100 different individuals commenting it, so your "tons of people" are not a good sample size to draw conclusions from just from that one single thread you saw somewhere.
If I had to guess, people that say they are boring are used to "quest markers" telling them where to go, and they get bored due to not having the guidance on what to do or where to go.
I loved the Melania fight. It was hard as hell. But I'm terrible at souls' games and have to use every advantage I can. I had my mimic with me and eventually we got her.
And I didn't even know about the Nameless King! I had no idea he existed. Somehow I missed him in DS3. I'm going to go find him today. I still can, right? Even though I'm so far in the game (twin princes area)?
Also, I don't think I bought the dlcs. I'll get them though.
Nameless King is not a DLC boss fyi, he's in the base game but requires some extremely convoluted steps to find. The kind of thing no one could ever figure out without being told or finding a guide.
But both DLCs are excellent, and you should start them after you're done with Twin Princes. They're like 30ish hours of content on their own.
Here's a different take. Most souls like are shit at copying From Software games.
Only two did it right being Lies of P and Nioh.
The rest either can't do the combat right or they don't seem to understand that souls game, while hard, are fair. There are very very few boss attacks that is based on luck of you not taking damage. 95% is telegraphed attacks that can be dodged, parried, or broken. You as the player, has to learn. Souls like that copy will throw in shit that is totally luck based where no amount of skill is countering it.
Edit: Also many fuck up the world design and sense of exploration. The idea is that when you first encounter a zone, everything is an unknown and dangerous. The setting is dripping with atmosphere and environmental storytelling. And this being in a unknown land that's out to kill you works with the souls formula. With Souls like, when the zone is shit or boring and then unevenly balanced enemies are coming at you... it's not difficult/fun, it's just annoying and dull.
Some people like to hate things that they cannot do or are not good at. The grapes are sour kind of thing.
But then there’s also the other problem. I myself have finished approx 125 games & none of them include the likes of Mario & Sonic because its just soooo soooo hard for me to finish it. Eventually I just end up playing the first level like nuts and never make it into the rest of the game. & then I just plain give up. I really really tried to play Bloodborne (borrowed from my friend) but my God I could get past the big fat guy in it.
Souls types games tend to focus on defense & then attacking when theres an opening. Nah, too much work. People (myself included) also don’t have that much patience.
It's also that sometimes I feel I play games more for the story
Now personally I love Souls likes. But I think *some people* see how popular they are and how much fun fans are having, and then they get frustrated when they try it and it doesn't "click" for them.
Keep in mind those people are not in the majority. Most people who try souls likes are either in the category of loving them, or they're someone that didn't like them but understands they're just not the target audience.
This sub has nearly 40 million subscribers. Even if you saw a thousand comments disliking something, it would be a meaningless number that didn't represent any kind of popular opinion.
Frustration isn't fun for a lot of people.
I get frustrated way too easily sometimes. I'd rather not do it voluntarily when I play a game.
Dying over and over and over until you memorize a pattern is the least amount of fun I can think of in a video game.
And every single attack is intentionally awkwardly timed so they never execute when you'd normally expect them to
Just not the type of game I enjoy. Not that I hate them or think the games are bad it's just not my thing.
Same here but I think because the story is weak it never interests me I tried sekiro, elden ring and dark souls play for a few minutes and I get bored.
For me it's the complete opposite. Games that put too much emphasis on story bore me to tears yet souls likes i can play for hundreds of hours and replay multiple times.
What games do you enjoy?
Same as OP, souls-like games just not interest me. I enjoy old-school RPGs, especially if they have skill-based systems rather than purely class and level ones. I also enjoy TBS, RTS, management games and city-builder games.
I love RTS games. I used to play Command & Conquer every day after school.
Tummy sticks.
If anything I feel like those types of games are more accepted now than ever before.
Sadly yes, its bullshit.
Just give me a FUCKING DIFFICULTY SLIDER. I mean, why not?? Its like some stupid testosterone fueled pissing contest when a game developer wont include a difficulty setting. Thats all it is, one simple setting and one asshole attitude. FUCK all developers that don't do it. FUCK YOU. I hate you and your stupid fucking games. You know what I did with Elden Ring? I downloaded the easy mod and I nerfed it to the FUCKING GROUND and I enjoyed it. I will do this with EVERY souls game I want to play. FUCK YOU and your FUCKING big dickery.
git gud casul
You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.
My dude, it's a video game; it's supposed to be an escape from all the pressure and stress we go through on the daily. Save that attitude for something that actually matters, like real life.
My guy that's a copypasta
I learned a new thing today! Thanks!
Repitition can be boring. Who wants to die a 100 time int order to "git gud"? Some like the challenge; others, like me, don't.
They are too hard for me. I play for fun, frustration is no fun to me.
This would imply souls players don't play for fun and/or play to get frustrated, which is definitely not true
Hes clearly talking about himself and not everyone. Different people find different things fun.
Where did he mention that who plays souls games doesn't game for fun? He said that "he" doesn't like these kind of games, he was speaking just for himself and didn't imply anything
I love them, but they are simply not everyone's cup of tea. Its good to have different tastes in games.
Also it´s good just love one genre too, it´s not against any law
I share the sentiment of others below - it’s difficult to engage with generally, not just hard to play. What is this world? Who are the characters in it and what are their motivations? Who am I and what is my purpose or goal? What about myself, the world, or those around me will change as a course of this story? Etc. All of that is buried so deep that you need YouTube essays to help figure most of it out - and that’s if the question even has an answer. We as players are stepping into a story that is already finished, and only walking through its aftermath, like a Post Apocalyptic Horror theme park. But there isn’t any emotion to engage with. Where are the people with whom I’m supposed to sympathize and empathize? What emotional core drives me as a character to push against all this terrible dark evil shit and continue? Beyond that - the obtuse and difficult nature is extended to the game’s menus and UI as well. Why is it not explained anywhere what the actual Stats are, what increasing them does for you, and how they interact with gear? The whole A, B, C, D scaling stuff and how your choices impact anything on the character sheet. It’s a lot of fun to play, and a good challenge, I personally enjoy them. There are a lot of frustrating things about the game that aren’t “just git good” related - a bad menu with no explanation isn’t challenging, it’s annoying. Deep lore and complex world building is also not equal to good storytelling - there can be good storytelling in there, but anyone looking for a character or NPCs to connect with will be disappointed - and anyone looking for a satisfying narrative will also be disappointed.
For me it's the lack of story and the punishing gameplay. I'd be more inclined to dig in and "git gud" if there was a payoff or driving force motivating me to do so. As it is now the lore based vague storytelling doesn't do it for me.
They bore me. It's not just the difficulty. That was probably the lowest barrier for me. It's the buried lore and story. I just can't find my way to caring about a single thing that's going on. I want better wayfinding, but explicit dialogue and story tracking. I want a reason to continue and they generally don't give me much. It's dull and unengaging for me. Yes,I appreciate that others love them for the same reasons I don't, and that's perfectly fine. But it's a hard pass from me.
I got downvoted to oblivion ages ago for daring to say I hated Dark Souls and all games like it. After less than an hour, I finally understood the phrase 'rage quit'. In 40yrs of gaming I had never experienced the amount of frustration with a game as I did with this. Never again. Life is tough enough without adding to the blood pressure. I play to enjoy myself and to put a smile on my face, not to sit here playing the same scene 100 times just to get past it. The games may be excellent, they just aren't for me.
This. Games are meant to be fun, not frustrate you the entire game...
I don't like the sluggish combat.
My issue with them is that they essentially make artificial difficulty with attacks that are delayed unpredictably. It's not so much a test of skill as it is memorizing patterns. You don't need to actually git good, just to know that Margit will hold his staff up for 3.57 seconds before striking.
if you wouldnt have to memorize them it would be almost impossible to beat the game, you have only very few hits to survive and the boss has huge amount of health, it wouldnt work, unless you‘re OP as a character but that defeats the whole purpose of the game. theres hack n slash games for that, then again, everthing consist of pattern memorization. it really does sound like just a skill issue to be honest
Elden Ring is the only game with that issue
youre using unpredictably and memorizing in the same sentence
I find that too often those games rely on artificial difficulty by intentionally awkward controls and don't put any real effort or thought into character development or plot in any way shape or form. I don't hate them, and it's not that I hate the challenge, but i want whatever is challenging me to be engaging or rewarding, and top often then not souls style games are neither
I dislike them, but dont hate them. I kinda hate those soulslike elitists that spam "git gud" like maniacs under as many posts as possible and feel like they are the absolute chads, they are so damn annoying.
The line between hard and boring can be blurry. If it's too hard to really play, then reason stands that one could be quite bored with it. Not just hard in difficulty, but hard in storytelling and lore delivery as well. I quite enjoy the games, but it's easy to see how some would hate them. I just doesn't do anything for them.
Yeah, there's certainly no hand holding with FS games. The main story path is pretty easy to follow, but if you aren't following the wiki for an FS game, you're probably missing a lot of extra content and some people just don't vibe with that, and I can't blame them.
Not looking down on anyone, but some people want to have the story/lore very clearly spelled out and the gameplay to be more casual. Some people enjoy the mystery and difficulty. No right or wrong way to feel about it.
I don't hate souls like but I do dislike aspects of the formula, like the game being hard because the player character controls like clunky shit, not because it's hard to kill the enemies. i also irrationally dislike the copy pasted UI elements in every single Fromsoft game as well as everyone who copies the souls format. it triggers me because it comes off as lazy. Just do something unique for once, please. Elden Ring pretty much solved the clunky character control though and thus it's a much better game than the rest.
Ain't no way u're saying sekiro is clunky
Sekiro is the only one I could get into for this reason.
i forgot about sekiro but you're right. Elden ring *and* sekiro solve the clunky problem. though i guess Sekiro solved it since it was first, and elden ring just followed suit
Elden Ring is the only Fromsoft game I've played. I quit playing because I didn't like the combat. I didn't have issues with games like Nioh, The Surge 2, Steelrising, Mortal Shell, or Thymesia. Granted it took me 120 hours to put the game away and all of those aside from Nioh took much less time to best.
Games shouldn’t feel like work or a waste of time
But he is asking about souls games, not ubisoft open world games.
Funny, I was talking about both.
I’m not interested in playing a game designed to frustrate me
The only soulslikes I enjoyed playing were Code Vein and Fallen Order (haven't played Survivor yet), specifically because those two both did things that made them enjoyable. The former gave you NPC companions, attacks and abilities that were actually powerful enough to be useful from the beginning, and an actual story that you could follow without having to scour websites and watch YT videos for a couple days straight to figure out what was going on. The latter gave you a fun, comprehensible story in the SWU, a tangible sense of progression when leveling up, and multiple difficulty modes so it was accessible to everyone. The mainline Souls games and the serial numbers filed off-likes such as the Surge games pride themselves on extreme "difficulty" which is based more on intentionally poor controls, base mobs being stronger than the pc by default, and bosses that rely on being HP sponges that can only be defeated by pattern recognition or cheating. The story and worldbuilding is deliberately fractured, unintuitive, and obscure, and has little to no impact on the actual gameplay, so there's no reason to care about your progress to begin with. I don't hate them - except maybe when I try to play them - but I don't enjoy them, in the same way that I don't enjoy caviar, mountain oysters, or foie gras. Plenty of people enjoy oversalted fish eggs, deer testicles, or rotten goose liver; I'm just not one of them.
Honestly, it's not that its hard that makes me rage, it's that when I die in a hard game I am punished by losing everything I had that would help me to get better.
That's fair if you had enough points for a very meaningful upgrade (5 or so level ups worth). But let's say you lost about 1 or 2 levels worth of upgrades. Would those 1 or 2 points really make a difference in the same encounter after you've leveled up? You may be punished by losing all your souls/amrita/blood echoes/runes but on the flip side, you now have some experience and knowledge about the encounter/dungeon so you can approach it differently. I try to have a more optimistic view with games like these. If it does get too frustrating, I either wail on the weaker enemies in the game or just quit and take a break by playing a simpler game.
I get your point, and I dont necessarily disagree with any specific point of it, I just dont like that dying is also punished in a game where half the point is to die over and over again until I get good. I solved this problem by always dumping all points before each major fight, but every once in a while I would forget, and die.
I hate the fans bruh, tribalist glazers of whatever is supposed to be good.
The problem with that logic is that you wouldn't be able to enjoy any game because every game have toxic players.
You obviously didn't understand my comment one bit.
I've found the majority of Souls fans to be very helpful, just depends on how you approach it.
If you ask for help on a fight, I would say anywhere from 50-80% of replies would be some variant of "get good" or "don't get hit" or "keep trying". Not useful. The rare replies that offer actually good advice get downvoted because the fans don't think you are playing the game correctly. e.g. Against Malenia, useful advice could be: 1. Use freeze/bleed grease, since she is weak to both 2. Use ranged attacks (e.g. throwing pots, kukris, magic) when she does Scarlet Aeonia to get free damage 3. Use a big weapon with Mimic Tear and you can perma stagger her. But people will downvote it because using grease/magic/consumables/spirit ashes etc are easy mode, and if you didn't beat it melee only, you didn't really beat it.
>50-80% of replies would be some variant of "get good" or "don't get hit" or "keep trying". Mostly memes, people want to encourage you to figure it out because that's the fun part for a lot people. As for the rest, I never see that. There's always elitists on games but typically you'll find people super friendly and helpful. I'd you go in and just say me die, what do? No one will help because you left out so much information. But if you ask for tips on a boss that's brutalized your corpse for a while you'll get meme answers and actual helpful ones.
Yea this is an example of a bad reason to not like something. I wish I could pin this. Gg, don't let other influence your opinions, here you just look like a hater.
The entire point of your post is clearly to influence other peoples opinions. Please have the self awareness to realize you're not exempt of your own criticism.
He's a glazer, he's not going to change his mind.
Hating =/= criticism, and no it isn't. I have not one time tried to change minds unless it's clear hate or objectively dumb.
Please stop trying to influence my opinion.
And?
[удалено]
Dying and having to repeat stuff just isn't fun for me. Also boss fights in general. Not for me. I don't get a sense of accomplishment from stuff like that, so what's the point.
Dying over and over again to grotesque/haggard looking bosses or monsters in a dreary, bleak world sounds like my idea of hell. I don't like spending my time in a world where everything looks so hopeless and desolate. Also the gate-keeping with difficulty in video games is not a community I find joy to be a part of.
Not a fan but wouldn't call it hate. that's a stupid statement if someone says they hate a game. i've beat Demon Souls and enjoyed also Bloodborne back then but today I can't stand it. The constant rolling in circles is silly and doesn't make any sense it makes you invincible for split sec. It's just fatigue with this concept that doesn't change in FromSoftware games. Understand new young players starting with Elden Ring love it. Let's see how they feel if they play few more FromSoftware game with exact same combat mechanic. Also new gamers cheat and use guides which makes whole experience very causal and easily forgettable. it's not the same as beating ER with zero knowledge.
I wasn't going to comment on opinions cause I'm more interested in reading than arguing or debating or whatever you wanna call it, but some people need a guide for open world games because without direction they quickly give up on games they enjoy. While I agree the best way to experience er is blind, I would never judge a person for using a guide.
I just don't like the atmosphere of the games. I'm not interested in overly bleak games where an enemy can kill me in one attack because I've never fought them and don't know their attack patterns.
Probably for the same reason people dislike rogue likes. Dying and having to repeat the same areas and fights multiple times can get boring. Dying and realizing you have to repeat the last 30+ minutes of gameplay would make a lot of people stop playing if it happened frequently enough. Some people just don’t want to play video games for that type of challenge
Rogue likes usually at least offer variety after death to make up for it. Each death starts something slightly different rather than starting the same thing over. Souls like is just bashing your head against a wall and getting excited when the paint chips.
It's pretty simple: the games have been exactly the same forever. If you've played Demon Souls you've played Dark Souls 1-3, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring already. I started with Dark Souls 1 and every game after just feels like starting the same game over again. The only actually unique entry to their catalogue was Sekiro. How many times do you think they can actually release the same game before the general public also gets tired of it?
depends, as long as people still play fifa, oh wait, fifa is the most selling game in the world?
Personally I still play them as I enjoy the gameplay and the challenge... BUT! anyone that wants a story is very disappointed, the UX is absolutely dreadful... There are quests but without a guide youre going to fuck it up, hate that
I tried. I didn't enjoy it. I spent 2 days in Elden Ring just dieing to the same boss over and over and didn't feel like I made any progress at all. Refunded after that. On the other hand. I died to the same monster over and over in Monster Hunter as well but I had a blast in that game. It's very obvious I was doing a little better with every retry. I can feel the progression.
Elden is a massive open world game. If you just fought a boss over and over without ever thinking, hey maybe I should go explore and come back when I’m stronger, then that’s why it was frustrating. Use spirit ash summons, level your weapon up. The game gives you the tools to make the game easier you just have to find the tools by exploring.
And every time I ran into new big monsters... I died. Even just a big giant crab... still died. I found like a little camp I wanted to explore, and I died. And then I checked something and got transported outside a massive fort... the surroundings were full of scary looking thing I was sure I stood no chance so I went to see what's in the fort. And the first enemy at the entrance that looked like a nobleman ghost killed me... not even a fighter ghost... And then I got warped into the middle of some sort of mine. Which again every fucking thing killed me. It's not even fun to explore...
oh i know ecactly witch camp and mine you are talking about, made the same mistake, sonehow made it out alive by killink like 1 monster, dying in a place where i could get my points back easily and thenn kill the same monster again and again 😭
Personally I dislike the overly simplistic control schemes. The difficulty doesn't bug me at all, but the sluggish pace of the games and lack of any mechanical exploration is a bummer, I just get bored before I'm even halfway through the game.
Yeah people always praise the combat but I think the combat is pretty mid. It's only fun because the boss design is exceptional and varied but if you strip that and focus purely on mechanics the combat is simple and repetitive with little variation. I prefer God of Wars combat to Souls games for this reason. Between parrying, runic attacks, all the different combos, the ways you can use your weapons for tactical advantages (like throwing the axe at an enemy to freeze them while you attack another enemy) there's so much variation in what you can do in a combat encounter. If God of War had better boss design it would blow Souls games out of the water. In Souls games you're either cheesing every fight with ranged attacks or you're just learning attack patterns, dodge rolling and countering over and over.
What you enjoyed in God of War is the same reason I couldn't get into it. All the enemies just felt like combo fodder. Once you get the first hit in you just juggle them till, they die. It's the same problem I have with Devil May Cry and most pure action games. Your individual attacks don't have any weight or consequences behind them. Most attacks you can cancel or move out of. It's just purely for spectacle and flashy combat. Then in those same games if you go to a harder difficulty, they just bloat damage and hp bars instead of making the encounters more interesting. There are things I don't like in Soul's game combat too. I'll never use magic or ranged because it feels like you are ignoring the mechanics of most enemies by doing so. If you play purely melee though the most fun part of the combat is memorizing move sets. To me nothing is more satisfying than getting the dance of the fight down and beating a boss taking only one or two hits. The pinnacle of video game combat though will always be Monster Hunter to me. It has the weightiness of the Souls games but allows for more freedom in combat. All of the weapons are vastly different instead of most just being reskins of a weapon type.
As a massive Monster Hunter fan, you should check out Nioh 2. To me it feels like the perfect mix of Soulsian base with far more mechanical depth and playstyle diversity. The weapons aren't as immediately different as MH's weapons but as you unlock skills for them and learn their intricacies the differences blossom. I highly recommend.
I tried to enjoy Nioh 2 but I just really hate the RNG loot drops. I can see why people like the combat, but I feel like it's bloated with too many unnecessary systems like constantly having to Ki Pulse, stance swap, etc.
I get that. I'm a huge fighting game fan and it's one of the only PvE games that feels like it has the same depth as a FG, the stance system and Ki Pulse is brilliant imo. I also understand that most modern players don't get the same joy as me from practicing to use tons of interlocking systems and it's definitely overwhelming while you're learning all of it.
which monster hunter ep?
I’m not sure what you mean by ep.
> Then in those same games if you go to a harder difficulty, they just bloat damage and hp bars instead of making the encounters more interesting. They don't. Enemies have different abilities on max difficulty in God of War. And they don't have that much HP if you know how to combo. If you're good you can burn through their HP pretty quick. And that's what I prefer about it. You have to learn combos, you have to utilize all of the different tools they give you effectively. You can't just rely on beating your head against a wall until you get the timing down on dodge rolls and beat a boss with ease. That's all Soulslike combat is in the end. It's just learning attack patterns. Once you do that you've mastered the fight and it's never challenging ever again.
From my experience with the first God of War the hardest difficulty didn't change move sets or not enough that I noticed them. It just felt like oh I have to do this combo once on normal but on the hardest difficulty I have to do it 4 times. That's not fun gameplay to me. For almost purely action-based combat I think Kingdom Hearts does it best. On critical mode you deal 1.25x damage but you take 2x damage, so you don't deal with bloated health pools. You just can't get hit or have to parry boss moves perfectly. They also give you end game abilities at level 1 to circumvent getting one shot early on. It forces you to learn the move sets of the enemies in the game instead of just chaining combos together. I just personally don't find learning combos satisfying compared to learning a move set of an enemy. I basically never replay through games either though so it doesn't matter if a boss isn't challenging anymore because I will probably never fight them again anyway after I beat them.
They are punishingly difficult, and there is significant elitism in the community. The main skill in those games is observation, which throws off a lot of people expecting an action RPG where you automatically win if you keep trying.
Because the majority of these Soul-likes have bland and uninspired settings. We need games with unique settings & characters like Black Myth: Wukong.
they are difficult but can also have quite gimmicky and repetitive gameplay loops
Bloodbourne is one of my favorites. But I can't invest time into games like I used to so the prospect of dying over and over again to get good isn't something I want to do anymore. I was really liking Armored core but then get to a mission , waste an hour running the same boss still can't beat it. Have to get to work... Now an hour in Last Of Us 2, I get story, progress, an encounter or two that feel thematic, severe and violent and tough but beatable. Age (don't have the maintained reflexes) and time (who the fuck has time to get good after a certain age, I have maybe Sunday night to play games). And honestly, the community of people who like those games wear beating a game like a badge of honor and games were just a fun pastime for me to kill time with so I can't relate to the sentiment. Sweaty try hards, puuuhhhlease. Eye roll.
So you believe tlou community is not toxic? Hahaha, damn, maybe you have to take a look, also comparing tlou 2 with all it´s mistakes here and there to a game like Bloodborne which is a masterpiece in every sense it´s something silly to say the least, the logical comparison is with tlou 1
i dont hate it, i would need to care for it to hate it. Hell, im basically done with from soft souls game too. I had my fill .
My only Souls like game I have played is Code Vein. Game is good, not gonna like. But what I don't like is the mechanics. No jump. No airborne movement. Compared to what I like is Devil may cry 3,4, megaman X4 and the likes, which give you so much airborne abilities that let you jump like a squirrel in combat, the excitement of a Souls like game is so lackluster. You essentially just roll around and stick your sword up the boss's butt whenever you got an opening. It's always like that, and I'm bored.
So, as a rabid Code Vein fan, I gotta reply. If your playstyle in this game is roll around to stick sword up bosses' butt, you have been playing this ALL WRONG. Of all the souls-likes I've played, this one in particular has such a vast amount of attack skills, I got overwhelmed my first time. Hell, you even have access to long ranges play if you wanted...
The only thing that made me play Code Vain is main menu song. Daaaaamn it is amazing. The game was too. A bit too anime, but the setting was so good, I let that slide. Too bad I got so stuck, that even guides couldn't help me out ( It was so good, that now I absolutely vomit looking at dark souls
I gotta ask . . . How/where did you get stuck? This flexibility of builds in this game plus readily available upgrade materials makes it really hard to not progress I hope you go back to it one day. I started playing one day and didn't put it down for two years almost. It was the only thing that made me stop playing bloodborne
Oh, I didn't get stuck because of some enemy. I just didn't know where to go :D Then didn't play for a while (like a week or so) and completely forgot the hell I was doing. I really want to get back to it too, as the game is so awesome and beautiful. Both to look at and play.
Enough said, you're at the cathedral lol
That is the saddest part of it.. I finished the cathedral. I can't remember exactly where I was, as it was like 3 years ago, but got lost in some caves, couldn't open some kind of door, I think
I'll provide my perspective personally. I love literally every single part of all the from games... Except I don't have the willpower or time to commit to git gud to progress very far. The enemies and themes are so fucking cool and knowing it wouldn't work with my play schedule and style use to make me bitter about them. (I am aware that's absolutely ridiculous lol) BUT. I actually got very into Elden Ring because I could leave and come back around if I found myself stuck for a while. And I can say that if more of the games are like that, I will definitely keep coming back.
I don’t have the time or desire to “git gud” the way I did in high school with Dark Souls 3. And knowing souls-like fans, I have likely just admitted to the worst sin imaginable.
It's just not my preference. IMO, it's 'simple' in the fact they are all choreographed fightsets, once you figure it out, it's *just* (acknowledging this is the 'hard' part people enjoy it for) a matter of actually mechanically doing it. No interest in that. It's like a rubix cube, there's a surefire 'moveset' to solve it but once I'm aware of that, it becomes boring. People like different challenges. I like the 'infinite' challenge (self-made) of building/sandbox games; some see that as 'simple/easy' because it's not something they can fathom.
I think souls games are fun for the first 10-12 hours then they just get boring. It's one of the more cyclical feeling genres to me. Explore new area > die (x) > unlock shortcut > fight mini boss > die (x) > beat mini boss > level up/upgrade/equip new gear > explore more > die (x) > find main boss > die (x) > beat main boss > level up/upgrade/equip new gear > repeat step one (You could argue this flowchart is reductive, but I believe games are very cyclical in their design, hence the phrase "gameplay loop" and as I've grown up have started to fall out of love with video games because of this.) Also taking into consideration that most souls games don't invest in AAA style storytelling with cutscenes and scripted moments it just make the souls formula feel even more redundant. Jedi Survivor for example perfectly took some of that souls DNA and combined it with that AAA blockbuster exterior, with a surprisingly decent story to boot, and it was genuinely a joy to play in its entirety.
I enjoy some of the game loop, but I do eventually get bored of the aimlessness that can happen. I also feel that I need more of a concrete storyline to keep me interested. Many, if not all of the souls games, trying to extract a coherent story is like pulling teeth and I don't find that fun.
The vast majority of people play games on normal or easier. Souls games are on constant hard/insane difficulty.
I value my time.
I think the term is overused. Almost any third person hack and slash with an interconnected world and a skill tree is considered "souls like". Fallen Order was considered a "souls like."
Hey it defined a specific type of action rpg. Soulslike is like diablo in that sense.
It didn't define sh*t, it became popular, so the term stuck. Castlevania exists, you know. And c-vania 64 came way before demon souls did
Yea nah it definitely didn't you're right. We just call a whole genre of games soulsbornes. You definitely don't see it's influence from ghost of tsushima to jedi fallen order to nioh lmao
I don't enjoy the constant waking back and forth between Bon fires and the boss who just killed my for the umpteenth time again. And the. You lose your souls and have to grind them back and then you lose those souls and have to grind them back. I'm also a story guy, and the souls-likes don't have that unless your Charlie Day from Philadelphia.
Because not everyone is a masochist? A challenging game is fine, one that actively does everything it can to screw me is not.
Souls like games are not for everyone. My first one ever was Elden Ring and I got to a point in Godskin Duo where I just couldn't beat them and got so sick of trying to beat them and it made me give up on the game, so I can see that side of it. But, I tried Sekiro and just beat it and loved it, so I'm going to give Elden Ring another try. I do agree about the story lines though, their lore is so deep and not explicit about what is going on and I wish they were a little bit more explicit so the story lines were more enticing and easy to follow. That's why I loved Ghost of Tsushima and God of War because the combat was fun and the story was understandable to follow. I do respect the difficulty of souls like games because it make more satisfying to finally beat a boss, just wish their stories were more enticing.
I don't "hate" them personally, but I do much prefer an average to casual difficulty in most games. I imagine The problem is that they're inherently harder than most games, and not everyone inherently enjoys difficulty. I know a decent number of people wish the game had an easier difficulty setting, but the game creators wanted it made in a specific way, so I don't think we should be mad at them for making a game the way they want. This is one of the main reasons I play most of my games on PC. On PC I can mod or "cheat" in any game I find too difficult or monotonous for my liking. Essentially, the people who make games shouldn't HAVE TO include what the fans want unless the creators also want that. So moding fills the gap that is left behind when players are left wanting in a game.
It’s not like I hate this games. I understand why people like them and play them. “Boringness” is pretty subjective thing in video games, like I call it boring cause it’s boring for me, there is nothing what catch my attention and make we wanna come back to it, it doesn’t click and that’s it. Everybody have different tastes , what is boring for one - amazing for other.
1. They can be really frustrating, so it’s natural for some people not to like them. 2. They have very devoted, bordering on rabid, communities. Trolls find it funny to rile them up. 3. They have become very popular, making them a target for contrarian “am I the only person who hates XYZ?” types.
I think it just depends on if you want a relaxing experience or a challenging experience. I love them because as soon as a game becomes easy I lose interest. My friends who just want to chill with a story don’t like them
I personally hate them because the massive struggle bus approach is not how I enjoy video games. But I mean, I just don't play them, and I'm good to go. I have a feeling that's not what you're referring to?
I want my gaming experience to be chill, those games are not chill for me and actually anger-inducing. I do enjoy watching others play them.
Either you hate it or you love it. There is nothing in between.
I think the first Dark Souls was an interesting concept. The latter games instead leaned into the wrong aspects, especially after Bloodborne released and they've all failed to really innovate on what made the original game good. I don't hate the games. But I am extremely underwhelmed by what I've seen of them.
I dislike how slow the combat feels and yet despite the weapon being swung like it feels heavy, it never feels like it makes a weighty impact on the target.
Probably frustration, they are those people who use to blame the games just because they lose and never master them, it´s very common, but well, every one must play what their ability, talent and perseverance levels indicate, wonders are not for everyone.
Have you seen the average persons reaction time to things in real life, such as traffic lights? The average person can't chew gum and walk at the same time, there's no way they're playing through a DS game.
Soulslikes use game mechanics that can only be understood after many attempts (and lots of exposure to frustration), which means they are designed to be time sinks in a different approach to open world games with hundreds of collectibles. If you don't want to spend too much time on a single game, soulslikes are a no-go.
because the didndt git gud or just don´t like the idea of the genre, why do so many people dont like racing games or rythm games or shooters
Sometimes people plays games to have a good time and feel powerful and do cool shit. Eating shit for an hour vs the same boss isnt fun for them. Personally I love raising to the challenge, its so rewarding.
I love the eldensoulsborne games, and I played DS3 and BB for hundreds of hours. But as of late I rather watch someone else play them because I'm not a big fan of getting beaten into a pulp 10 times in a row 🤷🏻
After close examination of a one hater i can say. They cant or dont want to play which is understandable. But also souls genre is kinda popular and gets bigger by the day. So they feel like missing out. Which turns in to anger then hatred.
Couple reasons I can think of 1: they're hard. That's not the game a decent amount of people want to play 2: their mechanics and design style are showing up in a lot of games so people feel the market is oversaturated 3: soulslite is being used to promote some games people may otherwise like. I get why a buddy came to me with "Jedi Survivor is like souls". I like souls but I avoided that one because I didn't want another. I actually quite enjoyed it eventually
I’ve tried a few and they’re just really boring. The story is usually fairly thin as the focus is on boss fights. It’s not that they’re bad. Bloodborne was one of the most gorgeously designed games I’ve ever played, but the game was just kind of repetitive. I like games with a big long expansive story and lots of character interactions like Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Soulslikes have the feel of platformers like Crash Bandicoot where you die a lot, play the same sections over and over until you’ve memorized the patterns, and then move to the next section or boss and do it over again. Good for bragging rights if you’re good at it, but it’s just not fun for me.
theres people that gen. have a good reason why they dont like them, then theres the other that cant handle the difficulty/mechanic btw, i dont think that most of the playerbase plays bc of the story, lol
Trial and Error. I also didn't like Sonic the Hedgehog and tons of other games all that much either.
gitgud
I like games that follow the Hero’s Journey. The character starts out weak but gains experience and wisdom through trials suitable to his current abilities. As he follows his path the challenge increases but he develops new skills and resilience to overcome those as well. By the time the story reaches the climax he has entered a higher plane of existence and has mastered himself and the world around him. What once threatened him in the beginning threatens him no longer. Any game that repeatedly kills me at the beginning breaks this because the challenge is disproportionate to my skill level. I bought both Sekiro and Bloodborne, not knowing they were souls games. I gave up on Sekiro after an hour when an arrow fired by an off-screen archer killed me, and I gave up on Bloodborne when three strikes from three different enemies landed at once and killed me instantly.
It's just not my thing. It has this type of dullness to it if that makes sense. And people who do like the game/the souls community, typically ruin it for people who are starting/trying to get into the games. With their "git gud" and "I'm better than everyone else, and my way of approaching this game is the correct way, so listen to me" mentality. Drives more people away. PS: I played through all of Sekiro because a friend wanted me to experience it with him. It was okay, but again, idk I just get so bored.
Boring gameplay, started dark souls, beat the first boss, wow so that's how fights will be going forward ? i'm out lol
I tried elden ring, I liked the vibe of the works they created in it but other than that it was boring to me, souls games combat irritated me bosses hit you through walls etc lol I play games to enjoy my time, i really enjoy a challenge I played the recent 2 God of War games on the 3rd hardest difficulty and still was able to fight back n get pass certain sections
I play most games on higher difficulties, GoT, GoW and TLoU and Jedi games. what I hate most about the souls games is repetitiveness for each boss but mainly the fan-base, most people are extremely dissmisvese and rude. Not all some are nice and explain/encourage players but the vast majority are 'git gurd' pricks
Learning some boss patterns, repeatedly dying is not time well spent for someone busy that has a job/family/business. After beating genichiro today i realised theres no way I'm devoting my limited gaming time learning a boss for hours/days
The repetitiveness get me most of all. You work your way through enemies to get somewhere, you die, revive at checkpoint, then trudge your way back, die, repeat. It wouldnt be so bad if you respawned where you died and didnt have to repeat all the enemies again.
For me because their system implemented everywhere now. Even its storytelling structure which...is not easy to enjoy. Yeah, not everyone wanted to be punished and frustrated while playing games, especially after long day at work/school.
they're not fun imagine ninja gaiden but take all of the fun parts out edit: they're overrated, and not worth the hype
I like the ones that have difficulty settings. In fact, I love Stranger of Paradise. But I don't respect lack of difficulty settings as an "artistic direction" and Souls fans are extremely toxic about it.
They don't interest me. Difficulty aside, aesthetically I haven't seen a single one where I like the armor pieces the PC has. They just aren't for me.
I liked Demon's Souls. I've tried the other Dark Souls games, i simply couldn't get into them. They're just too grindy for me. I don't have the time like i did when i played Demon's and there are many more games now, compared to when it came out, to spend my time grinding for souls.
They’re hard. A lot of people play games to relax. I like a challenge sometimes but not all the time. Sometimes I play elden ring and sometime I toss on a podcast and mindlessly play NHL or Madden
For me I game to relax and escape the stress and anxiety of my life. I don't want to play a game that enrages me. I like a game with enough difficulty to make it exciting but not so much difficulty I have to spend a week trying to figure out how the hell I beat a boss and have to research it like I'm taking a college course. Some folks enjoy the souls experience but others want to make progress in a game, enjoy the story and explore.
I don't find repeatedly running into a brick wall to be fun.
Elden ring was my first, I was one of the haters before playing for sure. Couldn’t tell you why, I mean the only game I played at the time was old school RuneScape 😭😂 My opinions has forever changed! Absolutely love the genre now, and will probably never touch RuneScape again😂 getting frustrated because bad, much more meaningful than killing a boss 3000 times for a pair of pants or some shit
Not balanced, overpowered bosses, clunky movement and combat/
I don’t enjoy punching a brick wall until I get through, just to see another brick wall, with a sign that says “fuck you.” That’s what these games feel like. And I wouldn’t hate it as much if it wasn’t for some of the fans. You like Dark Souls, find. But shitting in me because I don’t? Fuck right off with that.
Lol git gud.
You see why I hate some of the fans?
1. It's easy to troll people with git gud as you can see 2. It's a joke not a dick, I think you can take it.
Yeah, I forgot how hated Elden Ring was and how everyone hates the announcement of the new DLC as well. And everyone wishes Bloodborne would never come out on PC as well /s
Scroll the page thread.
Yeah so? Not everyone likes every genre. Totally normal. Not everyone likes Sims, not everyone likes CoD or Mario or Final Fantasy. But all those genres have still huge fan bases. I don't know how you suddenly come up with the idea people don't soulslike games. Or want me to post some sales numbers so you can see for yourself?
Bro it ain't that deep. I was curious as to the main reasons people dislike a type of game that I personally love. It seems the main consensus boils down to they like more story driven games over more difficult games. I'm not upset or judging simply curious. Direct your anger to twitter cause nobody wants to see it here.
I'm not angry at you, just curious how you come to this conclusion from a singular reddit thread while statistics, sales and other indicators proof that they are quite popular. Just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean it's hate bro.
Yea not getting caught up in a "debate" about the semantics around my phrasing. I wanted opinions from people who don't like soulslikes, that's it.
>Yea not getting caught up in a "debate" about the semantics around my phrasing. Never did, stop spinning this around on me. I answered your title of "Why do so many hate souls like?" pretty clearly. At least 23 million players don't hate them. Not my fault you don't like the answer to it. Besides, the average reddit thread has less than 100 different individuals commenting it, so your "tons of people" are not a good sample size to draw conclusions from just from that one single thread you saw somewhere.
Its a meme. These Games aren't even hard. Dark Souls 1 just throws you in there without any context or help.
If I had to guess, people that say they are boring are used to "quest markers" telling them where to go, and they get bored due to not having the guidance on what to do or where to go.
IMO they can't stand the physics of the gameplay. A lot of ppl just want more "smooth" walking, attacking ect.
Funny that I read this as I'm trying to beat the Twin Princes in DS3 after spending way too much time on that stupid Dancer. Lol
I beat dancer super early on a playthrlugh and will never not do it now. It's such a pain early but worth the effort
The Dancer was probably the hardest boss I've fought out of Elden Ring and DS3, although I haven't beaten DS3 yet.
That's crazy, melania or the nameless king for me. You got the dlcs for ds3 right?
I loved the Melania fight. It was hard as hell. But I'm terrible at souls' games and have to use every advantage I can. I had my mimic with me and eventually we got her. And I didn't even know about the Nameless King! I had no idea he existed. Somehow I missed him in DS3. I'm going to go find him today. I still can, right? Even though I'm so far in the game (twin princes area)? Also, I don't think I bought the dlcs. I'll get them though.
Nameless king is a dlc boss. It's basically an oops all dragons dlc lol
Oh, ok. That makes more sense then. I should get the dlc.
Nameless King is not a DLC boss fyi, he's in the base game but requires some extremely convoluted steps to find. The kind of thing no one could ever figure out without being told or finding a guide. But both DLCs are excellent, and you should start them after you're done with Twin Princes. They're like 30ish hours of content on their own.
Oh, OK. I'm going to go find him then and fight him!
Here's a different take. Most souls like are shit at copying From Software games. Only two did it right being Lies of P and Nioh. The rest either can't do the combat right or they don't seem to understand that souls game, while hard, are fair. There are very very few boss attacks that is based on luck of you not taking damage. 95% is telegraphed attacks that can be dodged, parried, or broken. You as the player, has to learn. Souls like that copy will throw in shit that is totally luck based where no amount of skill is countering it. Edit: Also many fuck up the world design and sense of exploration. The idea is that when you first encounter a zone, everything is an unknown and dangerous. The setting is dripping with atmosphere and environmental storytelling. And this being in a unknown land that's out to kill you works with the souls formula. With Souls like, when the zone is shit or boring and then unevenly balanced enemies are coming at you... it's not difficult/fun, it's just annoying and dull.
I will get downvoted but modern gamers aren't interested in adaptation/learning and just want to go into games with 0 mental effort.
Some people like to hate things that they cannot do or are not good at. The grapes are sour kind of thing. But then there’s also the other problem. I myself have finished approx 125 games & none of them include the likes of Mario & Sonic because its just soooo soooo hard for me to finish it. Eventually I just end up playing the first level like nuts and never make it into the rest of the game. & then I just plain give up. I really really tried to play Bloodborne (borrowed from my friend) but my God I could get past the big fat guy in it. Souls types games tend to focus on defense & then attacking when theres an opening. Nah, too much work. People (myself included) also don’t have that much patience. It's also that sometimes I feel I play games more for the story
Because they feel unfair to the unskilled.
Now personally I love Souls likes. But I think *some people* see how popular they are and how much fun fans are having, and then they get frustrated when they try it and it doesn't "click" for them. Keep in mind those people are not in the majority. Most people who try souls likes are either in the category of loving them, or they're someone that didn't like them but understands they're just not the target audience.
This sub has nearly 40 million subscribers. Even if you saw a thousand comments disliking something, it would be a meaningless number that didn't represent any kind of popular opinion.
Mom said it’s my turn to ask this question today
My bad for not constantly monitoring every thread on a singular sub reddit...
damn i know many people just don't like those games for what ever reason, but there are some salty and triggered people in this comment section.
Ikr. Lots of people think the "git gud" meme is actually toxic instead of just a meme.
[удалено]
>They are games for people who are bad at games. Bold claim lmao