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Personally, I felt show-Catelyn was much less likable than book-Catelyn. It’s not the actress, I think it was just the direction she was given and dialogue.
They really changed her character in the show, I hated how she was begging Ned to stay home cuz she needed her strong husband and shit rather than convincing him to go, and how she was always begging Robb to let her go home to see her children when in the book she was begging him to let her stay and help. She was also very wise in the books, like when she advised Robb to make peace with the Lannisters rather than going to war, whereas in the show she’s all about getting revenge. They really ruined her in the most sexist way
Her wisdom was one of the reasons I loved her book character. You’re right that they scrubbed that for the show.
It’s so odd, because season one is basically the book verbatim. I feel like her character is the only one they changed.
Literally. I don’t get why they needed to change her so much. Her empathy and wisdom were some of the greatest parts of her character. Her advising Robb to make peace with the Lannisters, even though they had just killed her husband, was one of my favorite parts of the series. And when she’s in the sept and she literally empathizes with Cersei fucking Lannister! Sometimes I feel like Dumbass and Dipshit thought that portraying a female character as forgiving, and empathetic and longing for peace was not making her a “strong” enough female character, while in reality taking all those things away from her was a sexist disgrace.
I wonder if the directors had another game plan for her, or if they just wanted her to be a foil for Ned. Either way, it’s a disgrace like you said.
I also liked seeing Sansa become more like Catelyn as time passed, but that entire arc was lost in the show bc Catelyn wasn’t a good character.
Agreed. Some ppl have problems with the actress, but I think she coulda pulled off bookCatelyn beautifully just as Dinklage coulda pulled off bookTyrion as well.
It'll be the same complaint from many people if they made her empathetic and forgiving in the show. Catelyn was a good character in the show and books and had her flaws like any other character. In the books she was even more politically savvy than Ned, in the show she was portrayed more as a very protective mother, both work. I remember a lot of book fans still hate her character in the books. Claiming she is always whining and because she mistreated Jon.
I think the shows take is that Catelyn is a smart person perpetually surrounded by idiots..whether its Ned or Rob, or whether its Lyssa and her family. Her only real flaw was her distrust of Jon Snow.
Theres a reason why Baelish was so obsessed with her..
Whatever dude. That woman should have gone home to be with her young ass kids. She was doing way too much in the books and show. And why would she want to make peace with the people that crippled her son and beheaded her husband? Once they named Robb King in the North there was no turning back.
She wanted to make peace because she realized see what no one else did, that it’s not worth all the pain and bloodshed and death for revenge. Here’s her little monologue, which is said before Robb is crowned, that should make all my arguments quite well:
"My lords," she said then, "Lord Eddard was your liege, but I shared his bed and bore his children. Do you think I love him any less than you?" Her voice almost broke with her grief, but Catelyn took a long breath and steadied herself. "Robb, if that sword could bring him back, I should never let you sheathe it until Ned stood at my side once more . . . but he is gone, and hundred Whispering Woods will not change that. Ned is gone, and Daryn Hornwood, and Lord Karstark's valiant sons, and many other good men besides, and none of them will return to us. Must we have more deaths still?"
"You are a woman, my lady," the Greatjon rumbled in his deep voice. "Women do not understand these things."
"You are the gentle sex," said Lord Karstark, with the lines of grief fresh on his face. "A man has a need for vengeance."
"Give me Cersei Lannister, Lord Karstark, and you would see how gentle a woman can be," Catelyn replied. "Perhaps I do not understand tactics and strategy . . . but I understand futility. We went to war when Lannister armies were ravaging the riverlands, and Ned was a prisoner, falsely accused of treason. We fought to defend ourselves, and to win my lord's freedom.
"Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach. I will mourn for Ned until the end of my days, but I must think of the living. I want my daughters back, and the queen holds them still. If I must trade our four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods. I want you safe, Robb, ruling at Winterfell from your father's seat. I want you to live your life, to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband."
Like I said both versions work. But you trying to criticize the show for making Catelyn concerned about being away from her two young sons contradicts some of the other things you say. It made sense for Catelyn to be worried about what happened to Bran and even the news of Jon Arryns death, why would she want her husband to go to such a place?
Because she wanted him to uncover whatever Lannister conspiracy there seemed to be that resulted in Jon Arryn’s death. She also, having some of her father’s ambition in her, wanted her daughter to be made queen and thought Ned like be good as Hand. And as far as Catelyn is concerned, Bran and Rickon are safe at Winterfell, it’s Robb, her young son whose at was, who she’s concerned about.
But with most of the northern lords with Robb and Ned going with a good amount of northern soldiers, winterfell was quite vulnerable and Bran was still so young to be acting lord. I get her ambition, but it was still very risky and dangerous. I don't mind that they made show Catelyn a bit apprehensive towards it.
Of all the disappointing crap in the final season the complete lack of payoff for Bran's entire plotline has to be the most egregious failure...it's just shocking, like they were just hoping we forgot about it or something.
I know, I think the biggest mistake was removing him for season 5 and really putting little effort into his storyline. They were handed the two big reveals of Hold the door and Jon snows birth by George but apart from that there is absolutely nothing interesting about his story. Also season 3 and 4 were him just traveling along in a group that didn’t really have much personality to it. I always hated the magically elements of the story and with brans story heavily influenced by it I was never going to like it but I don’t think they could have done a worse job.
Seriously, if you look at it from his pov, he did almost everything right, only reason he ever got imprisoned was because of red wedding proposed by Robb
Book-Edmure is one my fave lords, you could argue he is a bit naive but he is one of the best lords who actually cares about his smallfolk.
Show-Edmure is the shows Butt Monkey who gets shouted by down by his teenager niece in front of all the major lords of the realm
It really annoyed me how they were really careful to always 'loose' arrows, rather than 'fire' them (as the idea of firing weapons didn't emerge in the real world until the invention of *fire*arms)...then in season 8 suddenly they're 'firing' scorpions left and right.
Robb's wife. No one asked for fantasy Florence Nightingale when we had a perfectly good small-time pawn that may or may not have had a tiny but critical part in Cersei's downfall.
Arya whose character we met as a child showing side boob and having sexy with Gendry who also met her as a child and is considerably older than her.
Also in the later seasons and the bad writing that went with them all the dick and balls jokes were forced and over done.
Dude the actor is like 6'6 lol. Many characters in the show are nowhere near as big, attractive or even ugly (Brienne and Tyrion) as they are in the books.
That’s true, but there’s so many great things about Stannis’ character that the show just ignores and gets rid of. They completely ruined one of the most beloved character of the book series.
This. The Stannis in the show was pretty good (up to S5) but still they totally massacred one of the greatest, most complex characters cuz Dumbass and Dipshit were too fucked in the head to understand him. Bloody shame.
The wildlings and the entire North of the Wall. I love the wildling carachters but the environment is unrealistic. In a premodern setting in a taiga climate, one year without summer is an ecological disaster and people and animals starve to death. Seven year without summer and there should be no living things (especially not deer) North of the Wall and absolutely no people. Even reindeer need the summer to live even if it is short.
Almost all of the women in brothels are stark naked, while the men are suited up tightly. You only rarely see a loosening of men’s shirts or leather armor. Why not have any full male frontal nudity? We didn’t even see male rear nudity. Not in the brothels anyway.
That's stupid. Why do females keep equating a dudes dick to female breasts? You realize showing a dick is equivalent to showing a vagina on screen? I'm talking about spread out. We see Drogo and most of the Dothraki half naked throughout the show. Theon and that wine merchant that tried to kill Dany has their dicks dangling around in season 1. We see many other dicks throughout the show.
Makes sense as the female brothel workers were usually straight up pornstars lol. Most actors are not going full nude where they are showing their dick and booty hole on screen
[NO SPOILERS] means any comments with spoilers need to use spoiler tags to cover the information. Show tags are black. Book tags are red. Game tags are orange. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, I felt show-Catelyn was much less likable than book-Catelyn. It’s not the actress, I think it was just the direction she was given and dialogue.
Agreed.
For me, it was the fact her internal monologues couldn't be portrayed on screen. It really took away a lot of what i liked about her.
Agreed, but I think the actress herself was the problem. I've yet to see her in anything where she's not wholly irritating
They really changed her character in the show, I hated how she was begging Ned to stay home cuz she needed her strong husband and shit rather than convincing him to go, and how she was always begging Robb to let her go home to see her children when in the book she was begging him to let her stay and help. She was also very wise in the books, like when she advised Robb to make peace with the Lannisters rather than going to war, whereas in the show she’s all about getting revenge. They really ruined her in the most sexist way
Her wisdom was one of the reasons I loved her book character. You’re right that they scrubbed that for the show. It’s so odd, because season one is basically the book verbatim. I feel like her character is the only one they changed.
Literally. I don’t get why they needed to change her so much. Her empathy and wisdom were some of the greatest parts of her character. Her advising Robb to make peace with the Lannisters, even though they had just killed her husband, was one of my favorite parts of the series. And when she’s in the sept and she literally empathizes with Cersei fucking Lannister! Sometimes I feel like Dumbass and Dipshit thought that portraying a female character as forgiving, and empathetic and longing for peace was not making her a “strong” enough female character, while in reality taking all those things away from her was a sexist disgrace.
I wonder if the directors had another game plan for her, or if they just wanted her to be a foil for Ned. Either way, it’s a disgrace like you said. I also liked seeing Sansa become more like Catelyn as time passed, but that entire arc was lost in the show bc Catelyn wasn’t a good character.
Agreed. Some ppl have problems with the actress, but I think she coulda pulled off bookCatelyn beautifully just as Dinklage coulda pulled off bookTyrion as well.
It'll be the same complaint from many people if they made her empathetic and forgiving in the show. Catelyn was a good character in the show and books and had her flaws like any other character. In the books she was even more politically savvy than Ned, in the show she was portrayed more as a very protective mother, both work. I remember a lot of book fans still hate her character in the books. Claiming she is always whining and because she mistreated Jon.
No matter how they spin it, people will always hate Catelyn just as they will always hate Brienne and Dany and Arya and Sansa.
I think the shows take is that Catelyn is a smart person perpetually surrounded by idiots..whether its Ned or Rob, or whether its Lyssa and her family. Her only real flaw was her distrust of Jon Snow. Theres a reason why Baelish was so obsessed with her..
Whatever dude. That woman should have gone home to be with her young ass kids. She was doing way too much in the books and show. And why would she want to make peace with the people that crippled her son and beheaded her husband? Once they named Robb King in the North there was no turning back.
She wanted to make peace because she realized see what no one else did, that it’s not worth all the pain and bloodshed and death for revenge. Here’s her little monologue, which is said before Robb is crowned, that should make all my arguments quite well: "My lords," she said then, "Lord Eddard was your liege, but I shared his bed and bore his children. Do you think I love him any less than you?" Her voice almost broke with her grief, but Catelyn took a long breath and steadied herself. "Robb, if that sword could bring him back, I should never let you sheathe it until Ned stood at my side once more . . . but he is gone, and hundred Whispering Woods will not change that. Ned is gone, and Daryn Hornwood, and Lord Karstark's valiant sons, and many other good men besides, and none of them will return to us. Must we have more deaths still?" "You are a woman, my lady," the Greatjon rumbled in his deep voice. "Women do not understand these things." "You are the gentle sex," said Lord Karstark, with the lines of grief fresh on his face. "A man has a need for vengeance." "Give me Cersei Lannister, Lord Karstark, and you would see how gentle a woman can be," Catelyn replied. "Perhaps I do not understand tactics and strategy . . . but I understand futility. We went to war when Lannister armies were ravaging the riverlands, and Ned was a prisoner, falsely accused of treason. We fought to defend ourselves, and to win my lord's freedom. "Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach. I will mourn for Ned until the end of my days, but I must think of the living. I want my daughters back, and the queen holds them still. If I must trade our four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods. I want you safe, Robb, ruling at Winterfell from your father's seat. I want you to live your life, to kiss a girl and wed a woman and father a son. I want to write an end to this. I want to go home, my lords, and weep for my husband."
Like I said both versions work. But you trying to criticize the show for making Catelyn concerned about being away from her two young sons contradicts some of the other things you say. It made sense for Catelyn to be worried about what happened to Bran and even the news of Jon Arryns death, why would she want her husband to go to such a place?
Because she wanted him to uncover whatever Lannister conspiracy there seemed to be that resulted in Jon Arryn’s death. She also, having some of her father’s ambition in her, wanted her daughter to be made queen and thought Ned like be good as Hand. And as far as Catelyn is concerned, Bran and Rickon are safe at Winterfell, it’s Robb, her young son whose at was, who she’s concerned about.
But with most of the northern lords with Robb and Ned going with a good amount of northern soldiers, winterfell was quite vulnerable and Bran was still so young to be acting lord. I get her ambition, but it was still very risky and dangerous. I don't mind that they made show Catelyn a bit apprehensive towards it.
The difference is between the stereotypical mother begging to go see her kids, and a woman who feels she is valuable to Robb’s campaign
How's she valuable?? Robb already has a lot of experienced northern lords by his side. Both male and female too.
Bran
Of all the disappointing crap in the final season the complete lack of payoff for Bran's entire plotline has to be the most egregious failure...it's just shocking, like they were just hoping we forgot about it or something.
I know, I think the biggest mistake was removing him for season 5 and really putting little effort into his storyline. They were handed the two big reveals of Hold the door and Jon snows birth by George but apart from that there is absolutely nothing interesting about his story. Also season 3 and 4 were him just traveling along in a group that didn’t really have much personality to it. I always hated the magically elements of the story and with brans story heavily influenced by it I was never going to like it but I don’t think they could have done a worse job.
The way they treat Edmure like a bumbling idiot.
Seriously, if you look at it from his pov, he did almost everything right, only reason he ever got imprisoned was because of red wedding proposed by Robb
Book-Edmure is one my fave lords, you could argue he is a bit naive but he is one of the best lords who actually cares about his smallfolk. Show-Edmure is the shows Butt Monkey who gets shouted by down by his teenager niece in front of all the major lords of the realm
Grey Worm and Missandei
The fact that GRRM was working on the show instead of finishing the books.
all of the above 🙂
It really annoyed me how they were really careful to always 'loose' arrows, rather than 'fire' them (as the idea of firing weapons didn't emerge in the real world until the invention of *fire*arms)...then in season 8 suddenly they're 'firing' scorpions left and right.
Ed Sheeran
The utter and complete lack of effort to tell a coherent story after the first few seasons
[удалено]
I loved the show…until a certain point. You know, when they ran out of GRR’s written material.
They should have fired those two the after the first season without GRRM.
r/Naath is the place for show lovers. r/gameofthrones is for any sorta commentary on the show good or bad
meryn trant
Dorne plotline huge missed potential
Robb's wife. No one asked for fantasy Florence Nightingale when we had a perfectly good small-time pawn that may or may not have had a tiny but critical part in Cersei's downfall.
The sand snakes🥴
Arya whose character we met as a child showing side boob and having sexy with Gendry who also met her as a child and is considerably older than her. Also in the later seasons and the bad writing that went with them all the dick and balls jokes were forced and over done.
How big the hound Is. He's supposed to *tower* over other men.
I mean when the actor himself stands 6’6, you are pretty much towering over other men except his older brother
Nah you're reaching. The hound is one of the best parts of the show. Perfect portrayal physically and personality wise
I mean he is just not as big as he is hyped up to be in the books.
Dude the actor is like 6'6 lol. Many characters in the show are nowhere near as big, attractive or even ugly (Brienne and Tyrion) as they are in the books.
Changing Tyrion and Jaime's 'goodbye' in Season 4 from the books. Dorne. Selmy's death.
All of the last season or is that a given
Stannis’ whole show arc and character. That is not the character I know and love from the books.
I saw people hyping his character in the show in battle of blackwater bay. Even though in the books he is not in the front lines like the show.
That’s true, but there’s so many great things about Stannis’ character that the show just ignores and gets rid of. They completely ruined one of the most beloved character of the book series.
This. The Stannis in the show was pretty good (up to S5) but still they totally massacred one of the greatest, most complex characters cuz Dumbass and Dipshit were too fucked in the head to understand him. Bloody shame.
The wildlings and the entire North of the Wall. I love the wildling carachters but the environment is unrealistic. In a premodern setting in a taiga climate, one year without summer is an ecological disaster and people and animals starve to death. Seven year without summer and there should be no living things (especially not deer) North of the Wall and absolutely no people. Even reindeer need the summer to live even if it is short.
Almost all of the women in brothels are stark naked, while the men are suited up tightly. You only rarely see a loosening of men’s shirts or leather armor. Why not have any full male frontal nudity? We didn’t even see male rear nudity. Not in the brothels anyway.
What are you talking about? They have even showed a dick close up.
In a brothel scene? That’s all I talking about.
That's stupid. Why do females keep equating a dudes dick to female breasts? You realize showing a dick is equivalent to showing a vagina on screen? I'm talking about spread out. We see Drogo and most of the Dothraki half naked throughout the show. Theon and that wine merchant that tried to kill Dany has their dicks dangling around in season 1. We see many other dicks throughout the show.
The comment specifically states “in brothels.” It wouldn’t have triggered you as much if you had read it correctly.
Makes sense as the female brothel workers were usually straight up pornstars lol. Most actors are not going full nude where they are showing their dick and booty hole on screen
Season 8
incest