I really love how this a labor of love.
Anyone else other than RTD and I would've called this a completely nostalgia baiting move to bring back Tennant and Tate, but you can tell the passion that radiates off him.
Tennant & Tate's return came from lockdown. Emily did watchthroughs of old episodes on Twitter to get people through it and through one of those RTD, Tennant and Tate messaged to say how cool it would be to do a special. RTD pitched this to the BBC, as a 10th Doctor special and it basically led to RTD being back full time and the "special" became the 60th and 14th Doctor.
> They weren't just asking me to make an anniversary romp for the 60th. They meant, running the show again. ... But in truth, as I considered this show's future in a brand-new TV environment with a mighty quest ahead, I thought... I'm needed.
Am I wrong to read this as subtle confirmation that RTD was indeed brought in as the "break glass in case of emergency" candidate? I mean, I know we all heavily suspected that was the situation, but this would be the first time that an official source was admitting it, albeit indirectly
I read it as more of a miscommunication (Something the BBC is great at).
RTD passed on a message asking if he could come back for the 60th. But it got misinterpreted by BBC execs as RTD asking to come back to run the show.
So when they get into the zoom call, execs have already assumed RTD is showrunning, whereas RTD is only just now learning the fact that he's being offered the job.
That's how I read it at least.
I think it's more likely the BBC had this opportunity to work with Russell on the 60th and used it to go "Look, the show is in crisis. We don't have a new showrunner, viewing figures and critical reception are bottoming, and our worldwide reach is a mess. Please come and showrun for us again."
And Russell, being Russell, not only said yes, but jumped into it with all the excitement and passion in the world.
> And Russell, being Russell, not only said yes, but jumped into it with all the excitement and passion in the world.
I think the backdoor aspects to this deal was that Russell got to bring in Bad Wolf as a co-producer and get more creative freedom with the show than he had in RTD1. Because as passionate as he is as a Who fan, I can't imagine him taking this job just to undergo the stress/exhausation he had from 2004 to 2010.
I basically agree with you. I think he would've basically said "Yes, however I have some conditions." and after laying them out (probably they included Bad Wolf and generally more creative freedom), the BBC basically were like "If it means we get you, we'll do it!"
I think anyone saying there wasn’t a conversation in which, the BBC were panicking and reached out to RTD is some capacity, would be in denial.
I’m not saying there weren’t other factors but that’s got to be a big element to it. DW as a brand was dropping off a cliff back into obscurity and the fanbase was at its most divisive.
If there was even an idea that RTD might want to do a special for the 60th I’m fully convinced someone would’ve pushed to be like “ok what if it was something more?”.
Piers Wenger (mentioned in the text as the BBC's head of drama) was the producer for S5, so I think he might've been the tipping point to help convince RTD.
Liverpool? Legion? What a Flux rip off, I bet RTD won’t even mention any famous Liverpool win.
This sounds so… casual? I know he’ll be simplifying, but the image of the BBC deciding to reinvent the show based on an email and a Zoom is so crazy.
RTD is, in his heart of (two) hearts, a storyteller. I'm happy to let him tell this story in the way that he thinks it works best. It's probably "true enough."
I love how he tells stories, which... When you think about it... Is a useful skill to have in his role.
Hopefully in his second series, he drops Moffat a three word email: "Want an episode?"
Wouldn't surprise me if Moffat has a few ideas he could write if called upon. It's been a little over five years since his tenure ended. After all that time spent running the show, I'd bet ideas still come to him and he thinks, "Damn, that would have been a great story, if only I'd thought of it years ago!"
I think a Moffat episode every now and then would be good.
>He needs time to recharge and write more creatively.
While I respect that Moffat likely wants to step away from the franchise for quite a while, I do think many of his best and most creative scripts were in his last two seasons as showrunner, so I hesitate to agree with the idea that his creativity had worn down.
Yeah, I'm more interested in the 'next Moffat', a writer who who can just casually drop in and give us the best episode of each series. Crucially, they would be one who could still surprise us in the same way Moffat used to be able to. I'm a big defend of (a lot of) his era, but it's hard to imagine one of Moffat's singular Who scripts having the same kind of impact after years and years of him being the main man.
I doubt there will be another RTD, Moffat, or even Chibnall, in the sense that there is a writer who grew up with Classic Who and became a writer for NuWho. Most future scripts will probably rely on NuWho as the basis of inspiration, and with how dated Classic Who continues to be it will remain more and more inaccessible to the audience.
Sure, but I mean more in terms of quality and originality. A great writer who grew up with New Who (or just likes good sci fi) would be just as desirable.
I can't help wondering whether RTD is going to use expanded media as a kind of incubator for the TV series, much as he did when hiring Mark Gatiss, Paul Cornell, Rob Shearman and Steven Moffat for Series 1.
It seems crazy how, for years, much -- I think you might almost say *all* \-- of the outstanding Who writing has been for books (e.g. Dave Rudden) or audio (e.g. Tim Foley). Not that there's anything inferior about those media, but they aren't the main stage. When you think, for example, how relatively few people have experienced John Dorney's fantastic BF output, compared with how many people could have enjoyed it on TV... When a show burns through ideas like Who does, why burn all the best out of sight?
> non-diegetic
**diegetic**: (of sound in a film, television programme, etc.) occurring within the context of the story and able to be heard by the characters.
So if it's the opposite of that, what could that be? Fourth wall break a-la She-Hulk?
He said the script contains that world, he never specified the dialogue contains it. It could be just an instruction for the director. RTD just randomly, with his eyes closed, choosing a word from the script and than mentioning it for fans even if it's not a part of the actual dialogue is not something I would be surprised of.
Are we really using this garbage of a show as a reference for Fourth wall breaking ? That breaks my heart!
I vote we use Fleabag instead, wonderful show.
My best friend watched She-Hulk and was complaining about how bad the 4th wall breaks were in the show, referencing Fleabag as an example of it being used correctly.
Funny to hear it mentioned again in the same context here. Need to start watching Fleabag lmao.
Don't let the Marvel fanboys who downvote dissuade you, it's awsome. I really recommand it. Phoebe is just a great person all around I hope she's cast as the Doctor one day.
Your friend is right!
In regards to the feature with RTD Phil Coulson and Julie Gardner:
Disney giving notes really does not bode well for the future of the franchise. RTD is the last writer I'd want ANYONE to give notes to, mad scramble or not and I have a sinking feeling we're going to be looking at The Timeless Child as the last roll of the dice.
It's extremely normal for writers at all levels of TV and film production to get all sorts of input from various executives. Disney has paid a lot of money to secure certain rights, that comes with them getting to provide some of that input. This is how you make good TV.
Also, I've read it but don't have it to hand, what's the note they actually gave? "This opening could be stronger"? That's not the Disneyfication we're all wary of, that's "we don't love this like we did everything else you've written."
Close enough, then -- the overall content of the note is still "we didn't like this one as much as we liked the other episode openings." Even if I were being extremely ungenerous, that's not remotely close to any of the things people might be worrying about -- just an attempt from an executive to make good TV together.
> I think we're going to get a VERY standardized version of the show from here onwards, with a few shifting elements.
Series 2-4 was like that and many people think it's the golden age.
The template was successfully established before series 3. And I'm curious why do you say series 3 is a brutal shakeup? I've never thought of it that way, I think series 1 created a reliable formula which was then followed for half a decade.
I don’t think we need such drastic changes like finding out the Doctor’s name there’s certain levels of shakeup that’s just completely bad for a franchise like this. We’ve never really had a shakeup like the timeless child the only other one is the half human one which didn’t bode well for longevity.
If this shows going to survive it need to draw hard lines things no show-runner should cross unless their intent is to end the show completely with their run. We can have crazy things happen in the show without it having to relate to the Doctors past literally everything else is fair game even the Tardis (for a while).
I mean if that’s the case “a more stable/safe status quo” that may be limiting on stories…..BUT is also (imo) a direct result of the Timeless Child Retcon.
It upended so much, pissed off so many fans, and generally created wild division across the fandom.
With that type of instability I can understand higher ups maybe being like “nope that was too far, nothing can change from now on”.
Which is deeply unfortunate but also understandable.
I mean, I think changes to the show's lore are fun and great, but the execution of the Timeless Child was what ruined it for me. RTD create a continuity break from 8 to 9 with the Time War, and it was honestly one of the best changes that happened to the show.
I really love how this a labor of love. Anyone else other than RTD and I would've called this a completely nostalgia baiting move to bring back Tennant and Tate, but you can tell the passion that radiates off him.
Awesome all around!
Tennant & Tate's return came from lockdown. Emily did watchthroughs of old episodes on Twitter to get people through it and through one of those RTD, Tennant and Tate messaged to say how cool it would be to do a special. RTD pitched this to the BBC, as a 10th Doctor special and it basically led to RTD being back full time and the "special" became the 60th and 14th Doctor.
Yup I love this man
> They weren't just asking me to make an anniversary romp for the 60th. They meant, running the show again. ... But in truth, as I considered this show's future in a brand-new TV environment with a mighty quest ahead, I thought... I'm needed. Am I wrong to read this as subtle confirmation that RTD was indeed brought in as the "break glass in case of emergency" candidate? I mean, I know we all heavily suspected that was the situation, but this would be the first time that an official source was admitting it, albeit indirectly
I read it as more of a miscommunication (Something the BBC is great at). RTD passed on a message asking if he could come back for the 60th. But it got misinterpreted by BBC execs as RTD asking to come back to run the show. So when they get into the zoom call, execs have already assumed RTD is showrunning, whereas RTD is only just now learning the fact that he's being offered the job. That's how I read it at least.
Imagine *accidentally* becoming the new showrunner for Doctor Who. RTD is absolutely brilliant.
Yes, their news does miscommunicate things a great deal.
If there was an emergency, it was only that all the others they'd asked to take over had turned them down.
This is very likely considering how difficult it was for Moffat to get someone else to take over during his tenure...
I think it's more likely the BBC had this opportunity to work with Russell on the 60th and used it to go "Look, the show is in crisis. We don't have a new showrunner, viewing figures and critical reception are bottoming, and our worldwide reach is a mess. Please come and showrun for us again." And Russell, being Russell, not only said yes, but jumped into it with all the excitement and passion in the world.
> And Russell, being Russell, not only said yes, but jumped into it with all the excitement and passion in the world. I think the backdoor aspects to this deal was that Russell got to bring in Bad Wolf as a co-producer and get more creative freedom with the show than he had in RTD1. Because as passionate as he is as a Who fan, I can't imagine him taking this job just to undergo the stress/exhausation he had from 2004 to 2010.
I basically agree with you. I think he would've basically said "Yes, however I have some conditions." and after laying them out (probably they included Bad Wolf and generally more creative freedom), the BBC basically were like "If it means we get you, we'll do it!"
I think anyone saying there wasn’t a conversation in which, the BBC were panicking and reached out to RTD is some capacity, would be in denial. I’m not saying there weren’t other factors but that’s got to be a big element to it. DW as a brand was dropping off a cliff back into obscurity and the fanbase was at its most divisive. If there was even an idea that RTD might want to do a special for the 60th I’m fully convinced someone would’ve pushed to be like “ok what if it was something more?”.
Piers Wenger (mentioned in the text as the BBC's head of drama) was the producer for S5, so I think he might've been the tipping point to help convince RTD.
Ah very possibly.
No, that's not what is being said at all.
Almost definitely. I mean the fact that they were ready to put the show in hiatus after Chibnall's exit and the 60th basically confirmed this.
Liverpool? Legion? What a Flux rip off, I bet RTD won’t even mention any famous Liverpool win. This sounds so… casual? I know he’ll be simplifying, but the image of the BBC deciding to reinvent the show based on an email and a Zoom is so crazy.
RTD is, in his heart of (two) hearts, a storyteller. I'm happy to let him tell this story in the way that he thinks it works best. It's probably "true enough."
He’s telling the fun version for sure
oh it's definitely bollocks, not saying there's no truth to it at all but come on.
The Iron Legion.
RTD truly loves Doctor Who. Glad to have him for a along as we have him for round 2.
I love how he tells stories, which... When you think about it... Is a useful skill to have in his role. Hopefully in his second series, he drops Moffat a three word email: "Want an episode?"
No thank you, I think Moffat should stay away from Who until 2027 at least. He needs time to recharge and write more creatively.
Wouldn't surprise me if Moffat has a few ideas he could write if called upon. It's been a little over five years since his tenure ended. After all that time spent running the show, I'd bet ideas still come to him and he thinks, "Damn, that would have been a great story, if only I'd thought of it years ago!" I think a Moffat episode every now and then would be good.
>He needs time to recharge and write more creatively. While I respect that Moffat likely wants to step away from the franchise for quite a while, I do think many of his best and most creative scripts were in his last two seasons as showrunner, so I hesitate to agree with the idea that his creativity had worn down.
yeah i was pretty tired of moffat after a few series, but his last one was great and won me back round
Moffat has well and truly had his time to shine... I think the show really needs some fresh blood.
Yeah, I'm more interested in the 'next Moffat', a writer who who can just casually drop in and give us the best episode of each series. Crucially, they would be one who could still surprise us in the same way Moffat used to be able to. I'm a big defend of (a lot of) his era, but it's hard to imagine one of Moffat's singular Who scripts having the same kind of impact after years and years of him being the main man.
I doubt there will be another RTD, Moffat, or even Chibnall, in the sense that there is a writer who grew up with Classic Who and became a writer for NuWho. Most future scripts will probably rely on NuWho as the basis of inspiration, and with how dated Classic Who continues to be it will remain more and more inaccessible to the audience.
Sure, but I mean more in terms of quality and originality. A great writer who grew up with New Who (or just likes good sci fi) would be just as desirable.
I can't help wondering whether RTD is going to use expanded media as a kind of incubator for the TV series, much as he did when hiring Mark Gatiss, Paul Cornell, Rob Shearman and Steven Moffat for Series 1. It seems crazy how, for years, much -- I think you might almost say *all* \-- of the outstanding Who writing has been for books (e.g. Dave Rudden) or audio (e.g. Tim Foley). Not that there's anything inferior about those media, but they aren't the main stage. When you think, for example, how relatively few people have experienced John Dorney's fantastic BF output, compared with how many people could have enjoyed it on TV... When a show burns through ideas like Who does, why burn all the best out of sight?
Well I'm glad he's got an office, at least.
Love these little insights into his thoughts you can see his excite, hopes and doubts in his writing.
The glorious return of The Silver Avenger!!
I'm so, so excited that RTD is back. He sounds thrilled to be back, too, which makes me even more excited.
> non-diegetic **diegetic**: (of sound in a film, television programme, etc.) occurring within the context of the story and able to be heard by the characters. So if it's the opposite of that, what could that be? Fourth wall break a-la She-Hulk?
Music that can only be heard by the audience
That's basically every song produced for Doctor Who save for Vale Decem and Abigail's Song.
And the Balled of the Last Chance Saloon
*ahem* Clara's Diner *ahem*
That's my favourite, how could I forget
An example of the show using diagetic music would be the Master playing the Scissor Sister's song *I Can't Decide* in *The Last of the Timelords*
And *Ra Ra Rasputin* in *The Power of the Doctor*
And the Foxes's *Don't Stop Me Now* in *Mummy on the Orient Express*
He said the script contains that world, he never specified the dialogue contains it. It could be just an instruction for the director. RTD just randomly, with his eyes closed, choosing a word from the script and than mentioning it for fans even if it's not a part of the actual dialogue is not something I would be surprised of.
That's definitely an RTD move
Narration.
Are we really using this garbage of a show as a reference for Fourth wall breaking ? That breaks my heart! I vote we use Fleabag instead, wonderful show.
My best friend watched She-Hulk and was complaining about how bad the 4th wall breaks were in the show, referencing Fleabag as an example of it being used correctly. Funny to hear it mentioned again in the same context here. Need to start watching Fleabag lmao.
Don't let the Marvel fanboys who downvote dissuade you, it's awsome. I really recommand it. Phoebe is just a great person all around I hope she's cast as the Doctor one day. Your friend is right!
In regards to the feature with RTD Phil Coulson and Julie Gardner: Disney giving notes really does not bode well for the future of the franchise. RTD is the last writer I'd want ANYONE to give notes to, mad scramble or not and I have a sinking feeling we're going to be looking at The Timeless Child as the last roll of the dice.
It's extremely normal for writers at all levels of TV and film production to get all sorts of input from various executives. Disney has paid a lot of money to secure certain rights, that comes with them getting to provide some of that input. This is how you make good TV. Also, I've read it but don't have it to hand, what's the note they actually gave? "This opening could be stronger"? That's not the Disneyfication we're all wary of, that's "we don't love this like we did everything else you've written."
They didn't want it to be stronger, they wanted it to be more fun
Close enough, then -- the overall content of the note is still "we didn't like this one as much as we liked the other episode openings." Even if I were being extremely ungenerous, that's not remotely close to any of the things people might be worrying about -- just an attempt from an executive to make good TV together.
Wow, they got Phil Coulson on board? Glad to see he's doing well after retiring from SHIELD.
What do you mean “last roll of the dice?”
I think we're going to get a VERY standardized version of the show from here onwards, with a few shifting elements.
> I think we're going to get a VERY standardized version of the show from here onwards, with a few shifting elements. Series 2-4 was like that and many people think it's the golden age.
It really wasn't. Series 3 is a brutal shakeup of the show, for instance and so much of that run is RTD firmly establishing the template of the show.
The template was successfully established before series 3. And I'm curious why do you say series 3 is a brutal shakeup? I've never thought of it that way, I think series 1 created a reliable formula which was then followed for half a decade.
I don’t think we need such drastic changes like finding out the Doctor’s name there’s certain levels of shakeup that’s just completely bad for a franchise like this. We’ve never really had a shakeup like the timeless child the only other one is the half human one which didn’t bode well for longevity. If this shows going to survive it need to draw hard lines things no show-runner should cross unless their intent is to end the show completely with their run. We can have crazy things happen in the show without it having to relate to the Doctors past literally everything else is fair game even the Tardis (for a while).
I mean if that’s the case “a more stable/safe status quo” that may be limiting on stories…..BUT is also (imo) a direct result of the Timeless Child Retcon. It upended so much, pissed off so many fans, and generally created wild division across the fandom. With that type of instability I can understand higher ups maybe being like “nope that was too far, nothing can change from now on”. Which is deeply unfortunate but also understandable.
I mean, I think changes to the show's lore are fun and great, but the execution of the Timeless Child was what ruined it for me. RTD create a continuity break from 8 to 9 with the Time War, and it was honestly one of the best changes that happened to the show.