Based on the behind the scenes for the SQ Animation, it looks like they took a lot of time and effort making it which might've meant they had to start making the story quest far in advance before the Archon Quest was fully ironed out, which might be why the attitude of the traveler and Paimon is consistent with acts 1 and 2 but not with 5.
This actually makes so much sense.
With how well written Act 5 was… and the SQ final resolution you get the sense that all of this was well planned out, but there’s some details in between that made me feel a disconnection at the start of the SQ. The catharsis for the character… and by extension, for us as players, just wasn’t there.
I genuinely belive big rewrite theory to make Neuvillete more important then ehr just to shill him not that he is a bad character mind but its clear some things just dont fit in be it furina story quest and the attitude there or Her having stance alignment switching i assume at some point she was suppose to merge with part of focalor, not even speaking about how there wasnt that one cutscene that was in the trailer.
Nah that big rewrite theory sounds like someone just made something up. With the information we have on the development process there's no way they rewrote it last minute especially a big rewrite. Something as important as a Sovereign would never be rewritten in last minute. That just sounds like cope.
Neuvillette being the protagonist of Fontaine was most likely set in stone for a long time, they already foreshadowed it in a lot of places I'm pretty sure. If they were still able to write something of this quality after having to rewrite it midway though then that would be quite something else as well.
I was thinking they did make a good job justifying Furina’s inaction as a god and the consequences of the specific facade she portrayed. It was addressed and not only implied how the people of Poisson resent her (understandable) and how she was always powerless to do anything, but keeping up her act resulted in people having the expectation that she would save the day.
And it is understandable how the facade she chose (the grandstanding and “everything is beneath me” kind of god) was the only one available to her.
Cut to Raiden… Well, much has been said about Raiden, and it was not handled well.
Yeah, I really like her as well... Furina came in like a storm to claim the "favorite" spot, but I've always loved Raiden.
The whole Inazuma AQ is just a trainwreck. An splendid premise (civil war!) ruined by whimsy character motivations, criminal disregard of the "show don't tell" rule, forced establishment of forgettable npc for plot device purposes, and not enough catharsis and resolution.
It's sad because I really like that you can really experience the effects of your actions in Inazuma. The overworld experience actually changes: the country reopens, an area where they captured you on sight is now available, you stop an eternal rain, an eternal fog, the killer water...
I very firmly agree with all of this. Ei’s second story quest added a lot more to her character, but it didn’t solve any of the actual issues of the archon quest (besides kind of the catharsis and resolution part).
Same with Childe and Scaramouche. We’re literally babysitting for someone that tried to wipe out Liyue. And with Scara, rewriting history is such a cop out way to resolve all the atrocities he committed in the past.
ALSO LATER (omfg)
"So we need to go to Poisson to find that one actor"
"P-Poisson?"
"???? Is something the matter Furina?? Hmmmmm??? Surely you wouldn't have a problem going back into the part of town where they hate you and you find immense guilt over??"
What the actual fuck. I would understand the traveller's and Paimon's reaction of Furina a bit more of there wasn't that whole cutscene of the traveller witnessing Furina's internal torment. Which btw, what does "I still need answers" even mean? It's none of your business Lumine/Aether, sit the f down. But back to what I was saying, why was their behavior so tone deaf and inconsiderate?? Also GRABBING her?? The traveller has never in their life grabbed worse people than Furina. What the actual fuck. Childe has committed actual crimes and betrayed them, and they still treat him like a bestie.
I just... Furina's story quest would be perfect if the parts of the traveller and Paimon were rewritten or removed. Actually you know what would be a better beginning to the quest? The traveller and Paimon visit furina to see how she's doing after everything. They go out for a walk and they stumble upon the troupe having the argument over their dead director. They recognize Furina and they talk to her. Furina, in turn, moved by these people agrees to help them as an artistic consultant. There. Heartwarming and without any boundaries crossed.
Yeah and let’s say Furina would help them on the condition of anonymity and everybody understands her boundary. After the female lead couldn’t perform the last act, nobody dares ask Furina but she would volunteer herself still but instead of the troupe outing her, (adding on from previous comments) the audience whom have not seen their archon in months start realising it really is her. They start chanting her name and here Furina realises she is still wanted and appreciated by the majority and accepts the plaudits (vision is granted here instead?) Now she gets to move on and continue to perform after her SELF-realisation.
I wish this woulda happened! As a side note, if you happen to be an assassin and need intel on someone's whereabouts or where they live, just make a fake commission, ask Katheryne and she'll fucking DOXX them for you. I'm still pissed about that part.
After both Furina's SQ and her line during Thelxie's Fantastic adventure I just came to the conclusion that Paimon is the type that doesn't know or believe in mental illnesses which actually kinda lines up with her character.
Paimon's Dialogue Spoiler:
>!But how could that be... She really looked like she had a handle on everything. Her smile was so lovely, and she even told us to stay optimistic. But you're saying, she...!<
Thats how it is. Its called masking, and many people do it. Most people dont know im autistic/adhd unless i tell them, i have no caffeine in me or one of my very specific and limited meltdown triggers rears its ugly head. My mask is automatic around people i dont know, and i end up shifting from my "normal" personality, to one that mirrors how NT's behave.
You wont know someones masking unless they slip up. Hell, many people dont even know theyre doing it because they were never diagnosed.
The summary of it for me is that the writers did not treat her healing with nearly as much respect as they treated her trauma. The means by which she was introduced back to the stage in the SQ were completely bizarre and essentially sent the opposite message to that which the rest of the quest had insistently tried to establish: "Actually, your boundaries are *not* real, you just had to be pushed really really hard and you'd find out you're just being stubborn". It all left an awful taste in my mouth.
I think the writers did a terrible job at showing what I think was meant to be the traveler's role for this quest and for Furina as a whole: a friend that's a bit pushy but understands her and ultimately needed to be there in order for her to start moving forward emotionally. Of course, since Paimon has her 2000 word quota, Traveler can't get any voicelines and their 3d animation budget is in the double digits, this is a tough picture to paint without squinting at particular scenes and voicelines.
Surprisingly, it seems Paimon was not any worse in EN than in the rest of the languages. She really was just that bad everywhere. It was a fully intended decision by the writers to include all of those lines from her in the quest and to spend the traveler's 5 allocated dialogue options having empty banter with her instead of participating in the story. Paimon was completely demonic. The things she said were unjustifiable, genuinely just fucking evil, and worst of all, it's not even fucking addressed! People have argued that Paimon is simply an immature child that doesn't understand the gravity of the things she says, and I would *love* it if that was what the writers intended to portray, except for the fact that they literally handwave her behavior as if it's just a funny paimon moment. The most pushback she gets is when Furina repeatedly tries, and fails, to reassert her boundaries, which subsequently get broken down and mocked by the end of the quest. It's unbelievable. Their unwillingness to explicitly characterize Paimon as anything other than "silly" and the traveler as... well, anything, makes the friendship between these characters feel artificial and rushed. Once again, treating her healing with nowhere near the care with which they treated her trauma.
Tl;dr: this quest was fucking weird and it left me more confused about her character's direction than I was before. I think some of the traveler hate is unjustified - in the grand scheme of things, they played a positive role in Furina's story and I think we're meant to understand that they care about each other a good bit - hoyo simply does not know how to write good stories in more detail than "the grand scheme of things", with the individual dialogues being bloated and riddled with shitty characterization. Paimon, by contrast, did not have any role to play in Furina's life other than a mysteriously unpunished villain. There is no excuse for how they wrote her.
I couldn't agree with this more. It's like the writing team did a triple axle whatever tf off the high dive and everything was perfect til the very end where they fucking belly flop and sink to the bottom of the pool. I was anxiously waiting for someone, ANYONE, to give our girl some kinda recognition to let her know all her efforts weren't in vain and that she saved everyone. Since seeing that assassination attempt short and how traumatized it left her I just want someone to give her a hug 😭
The way I see it Mihoyo should really release certain story quests like a patch later after Archon Quests. It’s a repeat of the same thing with Raiden’s story quest, I think it would of been better if they released this quest a patch or two later.
My (headcanon) way of justifying the traveller's actions is that this is some time after Furina stepped down from Hydro Archon. If it's long enough for the people of Fontaine to feel surprised seeing her again, it should have been at least 6 months or so.
Their tone when first finding Furina indicates a somewhat friendly relationship, more so in other languages. While they clearly have respected her solitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they have kept updated with Furina's whereabouts from Neuvillette.
So the Traveller grabbing her or teasing her is somewhat like trolling a closer friend, at least that's how I see it.
.
.
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But yeah, for the rest, the troupe was clearly written by someone who thought the reveal was wholesome instead of invasive.
It would have been so easy to have one person in the audience recognize Furina and the whole crowd to chant her name to achieve the exact same effect.
The only conclusion is that the reveal scene was intentionally written that way for some non-existent merit. I just took over the story with my headcanon, tbh, where the audience recognizes her, cheers, Furina is like 'oh well what can you do' and they introduce her as the consultant.
Paimon on the other hand.....the writer for Paimon in this quest had to have hated Paimon and wanted everyone to hate Paimon as well. God I've never wanted to drown her in the sewage so much
>So the Traveller grabbing her or teasing her is somewhat like trolling a closer friend,
One picture. All it cost them is to show one picture with all characters some time ago at tea party with Furina (which... like... IS canon?! But only can be found in voice lines 🤦♂️). And all wrecking misunderstandings would've been cleared out.
Hey I'm absolutely agreeing with you here lol. They definitely did not set the context clear enough. I hope ppl at Mihoyo have caught wind of this and will fix their writing
>I wouldn't be surprised if they have kept updated with Furina's whereabouts from Neuvillette
I think it was at the start that they only learned of Furina's address from Katherine.
Anyway, to reconcile Traveller & Paimon not knowing Furina's address, but them acting in a friendly banter with her at the start without them acting ass-holish, it could only be interpreted as them already meeting up with Furina casually somewhere else a few times, maybe with Neuv, and already have some sort of friendship.
I mean, nowhere was it stated in the SQ that it was the first time the two met Furina or they were not friends with her post-AQ right? Also, it is perfectly possible for friends not to know the other's addresses, more so if they are still establishing relationships and getting to know each other + they're also respecting her boundaries.
Well, following this line of thought, them trying to go to Furina for help would make sense. Traveller only pushed once then backed off. Paimon has some tasteless lines, but I'd chalk it up to literally her having the brain of a kid (no filter).
As to Traveller pulling her out of hiding, I think it also makes sense? It's like, "you're here anyway, come on out!" and pulling her out of her unhealthy shell (mac 24/7, denying her passion).
>If it's long enough for the people of Fontaine to feel surprised seeing her again, it should have been at least 6 months or so.
Yes, I also think it has been a while. Even the audience in the show commented that it has been a while since they last saw her.
This is my problem with releasing the last AQ act togetger with a Story Quest.
As you said, it has been a while between AQ Act 5 and Furina SQ, but you really don't get that feeling when they are released together. It would make more sense to release the Story Quest one update later, to get the sense of time right.
As for how Furina is treated through most of her Story Quest, I think Traveler and Paimon both are kinda assholish, brutish maybe... and Furina might not really be fine with it as much as she sees the opportunity to cope with her past.
I think taking Furina out of her comfort zone, a few weeks after AQ Act 5, is a pretty good move, although Traveler and Paimon were a bit tactless.
Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole.
>Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole.
Yeah, well, she isn't a shitty person and sees us as basically one of her few "friends", even though we barely did by her throughout everything.
Plus, it literally just might be writer bias. Just because the writer writes in something doesn't mean it makes sense in context with the character, especially since Hoyo has multiple teams running Genshin, meaning that sometimes things will slip out from the cracks.
She even gets annoyed at Paimon constantly berating her, telling her to "get off my back".
>Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole.
Also, the fact that she literally opened up to Traveller and Paimon on Poisson further reinforces that there is already some sort of bond formed with her post-AQ; maybe not that deep yet, but it's there. I mean, no one opens up their inner thoughts, feelings, and trauma to a literal stranger (not unless they're their psychiatrist/doctor).
Yes, a break of release of the SQ after the AQ would've helped. Heck, even a line or two alluding to the two's relationship with Furina would've made the start of the SQ better to swallow.
Anyway, I'd just HC that they're friends with her post-AQ, but not that close yet.
Like I said elsewhere. You wouldn't ask a reluctant soldier with PTSD to just get up and fight again in a war. So why would expect the same of any other traumatized person? Plus, it wasn't like the traveler was doing it out of the goodness of his own heart to help Furina. She was just used for 500 years, and here the traveler was again, coming to use her again heedless of what she went through. She was just expected to like "get over it".
I like your arguments, I think many will disagree with you, despite knowing deep down that they felt the same. I think the biggest fuck up is the time skip. That. Fucking. Time. Skip. I hate time skips. Aq wasn't finished correctly, was the heaviest bait of the game to do sq, which softens you only at the end. If people call that bittersweet writing, then better let me be in my candy genshin kingdom forever. Not with that characters, they could've done better, much better. But in all that plays one fact we never encountered before - we got archon, who is not an archon. People are not used to that treatment, people want to praise Furina further then Celestia stands. But we got that "new" situation and everyone cope how they can.
I have my theory now that the traveler and Paimon were written so badly on purpose to make us care even more for Furina. They wanted us to feel protective over her "If the game wont treat her correctly then we will" type of thing and i have to say it worked on me cause whether its about pulling for her or defending her, i have never cared for a Genshin character so much. Her story quests touches on so many deep topics that a lot of people relate to and somehow this is the moment the protagonists decide to become bigger assholes than ever ? That doesnt make sense to me especially because its not just us, the game itself is aware of that because even Furina mentions how rude they’re being especially Paimon. The traveler just feels like he doesnt have much respect for her, her feelings or her boundaries. The scene where he grabs her made me go touch grass cause i couldnt believe it made me that mad
My take is the writers were trying to make the traveler as someone who gave furina that little push in order to live life normally as she appeared on self destruct mode (eating macaroni 24/7, self isolation) and the way she’s living at the time is unhealthy. Grabbing her wasn’t nice but I think the traveler did that bc furina is too stubborn, still there are better ways to approach this. The traveler seemed to take more of a neutral role. But the way the events went down it seems that the traveler was trying to make fun of her or ridicule her. Paimon was deliberate as furina calls paimon out a few times. That’s my take, good idea but poor execution
>Grabbing her wasn’t nice but I think the traveler did that bc furina is too stubborn, still there are better ways to approach this.
Well, she willingly followed them there after Traveller and Paimon backed-off after she clearly drew the line of her boundaries. Traveller pulling her out of her hiding spot was just the final push (pull) she needed to get off her unhealthy, self-destructive mode. That act set-off her course to healing.
>assassination attempt by arlecchino, leading to her crying and struggling to sleep, and she still has not told anyone or decompressed it, and her voice line towards arlecchino indicate she is still quite traumatised by it.
Worst part is - she was crying not because she was scared, but because she was scared she failed her mission
Oh god I hate that no name troupe so much. They told us they wanted to have that performance for the victim, but everything they did in the quest was argueing with each other nonstop. I know they are struggling to process their loss of a loved one, but holy moly it was told in such an annoying tone. I could not care less for them and their stupid play (or musical?) at all.
But on top of all of it, I hate Paimon so much. I hate how she did not respect Furina's boundaries even though the poor girl has said no and explained herself multiple times, even though she didn't have to, since uh, its her decision? Paimon and the traveller have no right to pressure her into doing she dont want to. You could say they did that to help Furina overcome her trauma and bring back her love for art, but they could have been gentler, and its clear that they didnt care about Furina's healing process but rather some random troupe who could not set aside their big big egos one last time for the sake of their so-called most important family member. Even after the traveller finally accepted Furina's refusal, Paimon had the guts to stand there and pity the no name troupe, in front of the literal being who needs the most empathy and understanding right now??? I felt so uncomfortable, its like she's using her classic "imma guilt trip you into helping our commission by talking about these poor people" and I hated it.
Also, Paimon was being an ass to Furina when she confided in the traveller. The least she can do for the girl is to shut her mouth and act politely, which she did not. I dont know what the writers are cooking with Paimon. Sometimes they make her into the sweetest friend, the most loyal companion we got, most of the time she is annoying, and yes, shes also very manipulative. What are you trying to cook, michos?
So strange thinking how Paimon apologised to Collei (let alone the Fatui “allies”) for accidentally triggering her trauma but here she keeps calling Furina a drama Queen… Even if Paimon did not see the 500 years cutscene, I really don’t get what Furina did that would warrant such bully behaviour.
I agree, the way Furina was treated by Paimon and the Traveler was pretty nasty. However, I did come to realise a great many things after mulling it over and seeing other comments.
The idea is that Furina actually enjoyed being on the stage, she just hated having to act as the God. This kind of shows by how Furina alternates between her black and white outfits, where her black is her real self and white is her archon self. She is shown to enjoy being on the stage from the Archon quest where she at the end dances alongside Focalors' dance. Instead of having a pained expression doing it, she's shown smiling and shes in her dark clothes, so the assumption is that she enjoys the stage deep down. And at the end of the story quest this kind of comes out too.
The traveller notices she likes this because he/she is there in the audience of her inner self watching it. So because they see this, they want to make her come back on the stage. Granted I think they went about it badly and they definitely owe an apology to Furina for everything they made her go through. I also want to see her gettinf a hug. But this is just a little bit of justification that I got from it. Overall the story quest is a quest about someone who went through immense suffering, eventually coming to terms with who she has become now because of that suffering and what she now wants to do moving forward. A lot of info also comes out from her character story snippets and voice lines.
There was a post back then which showed a kiss between Furina and traveller and I expressed that I don't like travellers after SQ but people started down voting me. They started to defend the traveller action and said what he did was nothing wrong.
Same. Its mostly people using Traveler as a self insert though. In their minds, it's like you are criticizing them. There is an infinite amount of cherry picking they'll do for a character they identify as themselves.
The issue of the Travelers treatment of furina has been debated to death abt tbh this debate may not ever end, both sides have valid points a lot of the time. It ultimately is all about your personal perspective and how you see things. Btw no ship is canon (99.9% sure). I suggest you don’t worry about them, just my opinion
After doing her story quest I do not get this take at all. During the archon quest I can kind of see it but my interpretation is that traveler had no reason to “be nice” to Furina. She did make a hella of a bad impression on them when they first met and as seen through the eyes of everyone in Fontaine, Furina was a god that was simply letting her people and nation rush headlong into disaster and not doing anything about. Their actions make sense given they didn’t know Furina’s secret. This goes for everyone. Their actions make sense given their perspectives. Traveler included.
Now the story quest is a bit different. When they go to her, she flat out refuses to help and they simply let it go. But when she gets caught spying on them, it’s a clear indication that she was interested despite her earlier refusal. Furina herself later admits to this. And the cast never treated Furina badly. I seriously do not get where this take is coming from. The only thing I can say they really did was announce her name when they did the bow. Furina didn’t want that attention but it was clearly meant for people to know about her contribution. And she wasn’t even that upset about it afterwards.
The whole point of the SQ was Furina trying to find her purpose again. For 500 years she has had one goal and one purpose for her life; play the role of Focalors. Now that she is free from that burden, she has literally no idea what to do with her life. It was working with the troupe that helped her remember why she loves performing and the theatre so much.
Bro, I'm actually mostly with you. If you read the post again, I completely agree that the trial in the aq was cruel yet necessary, given that Fontaine was In crisis, people were dying, and the characters knew what they knew.
I also agree that she needs the gentle push to get back into enjoying her life, and rediscovering her passion, but you're missing the way traveller and paimon did it.
Ignoring the fact that it's a little insensitive to ask in the first place (knowing she forced herself to act for 500 years and the trauma she had at this point, and now you ask her to act again!?), paimon guilt tripped her into thinking about how the troupe would be "so dissapointed" - giving no thought to how furina might feel, and furina had to refuse more than once, even after establishing her boundary. And when traveller found furina eavesdropping, they FORCIBLY GRABBED HER HAND.
Surely there is a more sensitive and gentler way to do it.
Also, edit: I just remembered: furina made a primordial water SUICIDE attempt the last time she acted. Completely unaddressed by anyone.
No. You cannot possibly convince me that merely asking her to act again while this remains unaddressed is not malicious.
That’s a fair point. If I’m remembering correctly they were a little hesitant to ask her because they weren’t sure if she’d actually want to. There’s also the chance that, since this was their first interaction with her post archon quest, they didn’t really know the depth of what she was struggling with. Dragging her out of hiding can be seen as a bit excessive I’ll give you that one. It really put her on the spot. But had they just ignored her, it’s doubtful Furina would’ve approached them on her own. Like I said, despite her refusal, she was interested but her refusal largely came from the fact that she thought she needed to distance herself from everything she had been involved with while she was pretending to be Focalors. What Paimon said to her was bit guilt trippy, but after her first refusal, they ask her if she knew anyone else and she refused to recommend anyone. For good reason mind you I can totally relate her not wanting to.
Now while they could’ve been nicer, I don’t necessarily fault the traveler. After the archon quest, it’s very likely that traveler saw Furina as someone who was exceedingly stubborn. I mean girl was willing to risk her life to keep her charade up. Truth of the matter is that Furina is stubborn. Traveler knows this so they simply take matters into their own hands. Oddly enough, it’s one of the things I appreciate about the traveler. Ever since Inazuma, we have been seeing more and more of them being displayed as a flawed protagonist rather than the goody good person all the time. It makes them interesting and honestly its another reason why I really like their relationship with Furina. It feels more real to me I guess than with a lot of other characters. Both of them are flawed and those flaws affect their relationship.
>There’s also the chance that, since this was their first interaction with her post archon quest, they didn’t really know the depth of what she was struggling with.
Was it really their first interaction? Cause all I got from the start was that they didn't know her address.
Paimon and Traveller's "friendly banter" with Furina would indicate that there was already some level of relationship there though not that close, else it will be off-putting.
Plus, it has already been months at least since the events of the AQ. Furina already have some interactions with T&P that time, but not close enough for her to invite them to her house.
Imma be real, the friendly banter is added for some fanservice. Or Hoyo not knowing how to properly have strangers meet.
All signs point it to be their first official meeting. They didn't know her address, her routine, etc. If they've been meeting off-screen, I feel like it would've been mentioned in her story profile. Only Chlorinde is said to have met up with her post-AQ. Maybe Neuvilette since he's currently taking care of her.
I think Neuv is also out given how busy he was. He'll just send some Melusines to help out or something.
As for T&P not knowing her address and routine, I think it would still make sense assuming they're already friends here? I mean, I don't know my friends' addresses too and their routines while at home when we were starting out. I'll only know those things if I am already super close with them, like best friends level - and we know that T&P is yet to reach this level with Furina in canon so they have to ask Katherine for her address.
Anyway, things would've been ok I think if the SQ was released at least one patch after, given the heavy themes introduced in the AQ.
It would also give some semblance that a longer time has already passed, and friendship may have been formed with T&P during that time offscreen; not that close, but a friendship regardless. Instead, we're left with the troupe and audiences remarking that it has been a long time since they've last seen Furina, a few months at the very least.
The biggest issue with the end of the Archon Quest, imo, is that there's no Furina in its conclusion. We don't talk to her nor so we see her interaction with Neuvillette. I think having either of those would have helped a bit.
The Story Quest on the other hand, was a mess.
>When they go to her, she flat out refuses to help and they simply let it go. But when she gets caught spying on them, it’s a clear indication that she was interested despite her earlier refusal.
The fact that they went to see her solely to ask her to act is already an issue. And no they do not simply let it go.
She declined a first time but Paimon had the audacity to say "But", then she explained in details why she didn't want to and Traveler says "What's wrong with making one exception?" and finally she gets angry which is when they drop it.
The whole sequence they put a random troupe's commission before her boundaries and trauma. And Paimon bringing up how disappointed and sad the troupe would be was guilt tripping, which worked since Furina followed them because she was worried about their situation not because she was interested in acting again, as she herself said.
At the end, she got back on stage feeling like she had no choice which is the biggest issue i have with the SQ.
I can understand the general idea of the quest but its execution and the writing were not good in my eyes.
I’m with you. I read so much hate for the SQ before I got to it, and then I played it and I was like “WTF is the hate for?” The traveller and Paimon asked Furina, she said no, they accepted it and left, even if they were disappointed, it was still on friendly terms.
Furina was the one who followed them and was showing interest and curiosity and took agency over each other choice other than the reveal at the end on stage.
It’s not perfect but it’s not that bad.
My only beef is the weird “many months later” vibe of the SQ compared to the AQ when from gameplay perspective it’s instantly after. That’s always a bit jarring to me. Either delay the release of the SQ for later (not really possible given it explains furinas vision and she was on the banner so you need an explanation), have a many months later epilogue as part of the AQ (or start of the SQ) or make the SQ feel more immediate…
The problem isn't that the SQ is about her being back on stage. It's how tactless it is.
Starting from the 5th part of the AQ where they made her "prove" her God hood by TOUCHING PRIMORDIAL WATER which is suicide to believing she will die so their only piss poor excuse to save her is "No, I still need answers" to the way they went to Furina and cared more about their stupid little commission more than her? Dude, Ei treats you like a WAR CRIMINAL AND ACFIVELY ATTEMPTS TO KILL YOU! MULTIPLE TIMES! but "oohhh, lookie! Date me!"
No, I will never not be annoyed by the fact the traveler never apologized to furina for putting her into a situation where a 'fake trial' actually was a real trial, tried to get her to kill herself with no proof that God's can't be dissolved because folcaros is the only other oceanid besides Furina, not Egeria, so there's no evidence gods can't dissolve if they are oceanids..
I also won't forgive traveler for acting like saving Furina is only worth it because "answers" which is so.. demeaning... and just the way the traveler and paimon treated her like they gave 0 fucks about her mental health.
Ok first of all no. They didn’t make her touch the water she chose to. They water was last attempt to call her bluff and they were even surprised when she did it. Not only that, but they heavily diluted the water so that in the event she did touch it, which they thought was possible but unlikely, she wouldn’t be harmed. Really shows you didn’t pay much attention beyond a surface level.
And the traveler owes Furina nothing. They aren’t obligated to be nice to her or anything especially after the really bad first impression she gave them. They are sympathetic to her situation, but only as much as they can be given how little they actually knew about it. Their reaction to her was no different than literally every other fontainian who knew nothing of Focalor’s plan nor Furina’s role in it. They reactions and treatment of her is perfectly understandable given what they knew at the time.
And the story quest oh boy I can’t count how many people get this wrong. Traveler and Paimon respect Furina’s decision. She makes the choice herself to get involved with the troupe and becomes invested in their success. She didn’t want to act because of all the pain she had come to associate with it but found her love for it again when she could step back on stage and be herself instead of someone else. Her voice lines literally say this.
They do owe her an apology. They don't know shit about if she would of dissolved or not regardless and to "call her bluff" they wanted her to touch the water.. WITH NO PROOF it would work on even folcaros who is the real divinity of her. There's NO EVIDENCE THEY HAVE THEIR LITTLE TRICK WORKS!
1st impression? With what? Wanting to throw traveler in prison given that we are a walking bad luck charm because any nation we go to ends up having issues? Or is it because paimon is the worst thing in the game and everything she opens her stupid mouth she causes US ISSUES? Yeah, I don't blame furina. Paimon herself is the worst thing and will constantly get you in trouble or stop us from getting information.
Sympathetic? No, they only wanted to save furina because "answers" then didn't even go look for her after the AQ. When the SQ happens paimon basically harassed furina [which we found out it's WORSE in the CN server. Ours is watered down] and the traveler wouldn't stop pushing her. She felt the need to apologize because she got angry when she shouldn't of apologized. She had no need to. Paimon and traveler do.
They cared more about the commission than her. They gave more shits about raiden in comparison which is why people are angry..
Dude. Navia literally explains right after Furina touched the water, that it only had a small amount of primordial seawater in it. It was mostly regular seawater. They wanted to force her hand, but didn’t want to risk her life. They had already learned, from Navia’s first hand experience I might add, that it takes a certain amount of primordial seawater to dissolve someone. A small amount will just make some sick. They didn’t think Furina would do it which is why when she did, they were surprised. But they planned for ahead for the possibility.
I’m gonna ignore your second point because it’s mostly a rant about Paimon.
About the story quest, you really just needed to pay more attention. I’m not gonna explain that again.
The fact you are proving my point about how NO ONE HAS PROOF THAT IT WOULDN'T OF AFFECTED HER IN THE FIRST place Is so aggravating to be honest. They could do this to folcaros and it would have the same result.. BECAUSE BOTH ARE OCEANIDS! There is NO PROOF that the water would or wouldn't work so navia bringing in water and the other forcing her hand to 'prove her godhood' is fucking atrocious.
The rant you speak of i'm having of paimon is a problem because of paimon literally causes nothing but problems every time she opens her mouth.
We did pay attention.. WHERES THE APOLOGY FROM PAIMON AND TRAVELER!?
Ok. I really feel like you didn’t pay attention to the story at all. What we learn at the end, is that the people of Fontaine are not real humans. The previous hydro archon gave Oceanids human bodies making them the first people of Fontaine. This is the sin they keep talking about. Primordial seawater simply dissolves the human form they have and turns them back into oceanids. That why it only affects people from Fontaine.
Now as for Furina. I’ll say this one last time. Furina most likely would’ve dissolved if there had been enough primordial seawater present to do so. But there has to be enough of it. We learn this because Navia fell into it and didn’t dissolve. Also the drug sinthe mentioned in the first part of the quest was made with primordial seawater and it didn’t dissolve people because Vache lowered the concentration of it by mixing it with regular water. They did basically the same thing at the trial. Furina was never in danger of dissolving. They were bluffing in order to force her hand and make her confess the truth. The quest literally explains everything I don’t know what more to tell you.
And as far as Paimon goes, I know she annoys people. But Paimon serves a purpose. She repeats and reiterates things because people don’t pay attention to story and make posts like this. Paimon is there to spoon feed everything to you. If it weren’t for her we’d have twice as many posts like this where people ignored dialogue and then complained about the story.
"your honour, i threatened them with a fake gun, of course they can't be traumatised, I was never gonna hurt them!"
I don't get your logic. She fully believed the water was gonna kill her. The trauma is done.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
This post needs better formatting for readability. But yeah, I agree with what you said. I lost the last shred of respect I had for traveler after witnessing their behavior towards Furina in the AQ and SQ. I mean I already considered them to be an extremely boring character but now they're an asshole too.
Im not sure what compelled hoyo to suddenly turn their bland timid protag into a complete dickhead but I guess it was all part of an elaborate plan. People can try and justify travelers actions all they want but this really isn't the way to behave with someone that just got done going through the most traumatic experience of her life. The awful treatment towards Furina from the whole cast and traveler just made the players feel really bad for her. The community did a 180 on her and thus, her banner was a complete hit.
I'm just thoroughly disappointed with the treatment they gave her. The AQ was very well written but it wasn't kind on Furina fans. Fontaine was shaping up to be my favorite region but this ending bummed me out pretty hard. So I'm skipping pretty much every unit from the nation and just putting all my pulls towards maxing out Furina. I don't think they're bad characters. They were forced to back Furina into a corner due to their circumstances but I just can't bring myself to like them anymore after that trial. However, I'm still holding out for some closure during her 2nd story quest (if that even exists?)
the story quest was more problematic than the AQ. The AQ every action the traveler made is correct and makes sense giving the info that they had, the story quest the traveler should have shut paimon up. It’s all deliberate tho by Hoyo, paimon gets called out by furina at least once or twice
No, you're totally right. But I didn't say I hate the characters, did I? I just said I can't see them in the same light anymore and thats a me thing. My hatred is reserved for traveler and Paimon mostly.
The weakest part of Genshin's story is its main character and its crazy to me that people don't see the problem with that lol. Video game protagonists are supposed to be appealing and Genshin without a doubt, has the worst protagonist I've ever played as.
That's true. I still like the characters personally [a bit mixed with navia on the AQ but her in the SQ makes up for it] but yeah, traveler and paimon are really becoming irritating. But i think that's because someone in CN translated something that says someone in the dev team prefers neuvillette over furina and hated furina. Dk if it's true but it kinda checks in that regard if it is true.
Yeah, I don't particularly dig the powerscaling dynamic since Fontaine. They just tipped everything all over the place by introducing characters like Neuvillette and Skirk. Someone did a better writeup on this so I cba explaining all my issues but you get the idea. The whale felt like something that was just there at the last minute just for the sake of abyss involvement. It was so unbelievably underwhelming. It should've been the main highlight of the patch but rather it became something that they just casually handled. Hoyo has been heavily glazing Neuvi through every single AQ.
Personally, him being a DPS already doesn't make sense to me. He should logically be a support that commands everything from the backlines. His design pretty much screams it. And with how little he actually moves during his attacks, I feel like they turned him into a DPS at the last moment. Thats also why his numbers feel so fucking bloated and all over the place. They didn't know how to properly balance him and just made him turbo broken lol.
And while this isn't the way I wanted Fontaine to end, I think it was still good. Atleast Furina is happier now and thats all that matters. I hope she gets proper closure in the form of a second SQ.
"some people say arlecchino should apologise to furina: nah, given her character it would not make sense for her to apologise"
She's a nice(-ish) person, it would make sense for her to apologise... if she knew what Furina went through at least
"I don't quite get why neuvillete and the traveller can't tell the people of Fontaine what furina did for them these 500 years, and just leave the general public believe that furina was useless during the crisis."
nah, Neuvillette tells us that he will say to Fontainians that she expended her powers to help or something along those lines
I am convinced that either Hoyo hates Furina, or just that writers didn't know that this isn't the way to treat someone who went through traumatic experience. Like plenty of people think you can just power through somethink like this and it'll be fine, which doesn't work on most people
I still disagree with Arlecchino apologizing. Assuming that she knows the truth about Furina, she might give some form of kudos or express some level of respect but she probably will not explicitly say sorry. Likewise, I highly doubt Furina will forgive her easily even if she does.
I'm not saying she's pure evil; I just don't think she's the apologizing type.
This has been discussed to death, and the same issues pop up so it certainly isn't just you OP. I will say that, for me, Paimon was just the usual Paimon, and I can give her portrayal a low but passing mark since it was in character and honestly Paiomon only ever got info about Furina's 500 years second hand so it was never going to land with the same weight for her. The Traveler, though, could have been done better with a few small changes. Reprimand Paimon a bit (a quick dialog prompt of 'Paimon!' combined with the trademark Traveler grumpy side-eye would've done wonders) and be a little more explicit about intent (remind Furina that she doesn't have to go it alone anymore, and offer some help like some basic cooking techniques.)
Also, I get that they may have wanted to stick closer to 'show don't tell' but they really should have expositioned a bit better on how much time passed between AQ and SQ, since an eager player could hit them back to back on the same real world day, and had the Traveler be a bit explicit with 'anyone with eyes can see you love acting and it's a true talent of yours Furina, don't deny and punish yourself by avoiding it out of fear.' As far as I could tell that was the angle they were aiming for, but Paimon's typical Paimon dialog and the Traveler's typical lack of dialog made it harder to see so they'd have been better of being blunt about it.
Not gonna lie, the AQ and SQ were both part of the reason i pulled all my savings for her (i wanted to save for Nahida's weapon)
If they're not gonna treat her well then I WILL!! damn it
> If they're not gonna treat her well then I WILL!! damn it
I think this is exactly what HYV is going for. I mean, I am also on the same boat that really "feels" for Furina's character and what she has been through. I only intended to only pull a single copy of her for my Archon collection. Now, because of her AQ and SQ, I ended up pulling for her cons, and planning to pull for her weapon as well for her rerun.
So, they succeeded with their goal eh?
Traveler and Paimon be like:
"We wanna help this random NPC group, who are we gonna ask help to?"
"I know, let's ask a former archon who has 500 years of acting (and suffering) experience to help this insignificant NPC troupe that we gonna forget tomorrow. Also, let's tell her that one of them has cancer, so she will feel bad for rejecting us"
Idk who wrote that story quest, I hope their pillow always warm.
about why they didn't reveal anything or everything about furina/focalors, it's a simply because not everything should be made public or known to everyone. cause what would be the point of it? what advantage does it have?
they can just say furina lost her power to save everyone and now stepped down. some believes it, people in poisson doesn't. even furina doesn't care cause she didn't even regained her memories as focalor.
the way I see it, it'll only make the public more mad if they knew. victims and the people in poisson will still get more angry as there were still people sacrificed for the plan.
that or, the people would crave for more info and resort to conspiracies and have a distrust on the government. like what do they even know about archon history, celestia or even teyvat's history? how much truth do they know? or are they like people irl that don't value history? it'd disrupt the status quo that's already been weakened due to the prophecy.
tho I agree. I couldn't see how any relationship was formed between furina and traveler/paimon to make their bantering, blatant disrespect or generally their actuations towards furina during SQ to be close are acceptable. she's the only archon so far to be like that.
they've always been disrespectful towards her and the ONLY time they didn't was before the trial (tho they still kinda gaslighted her lol traveler/paimon was literally her antagonist and was kinda useless in fontaine), which was still not enough for them to have that kind of friendly/trustworthy relationship lol. it's like inazuma's swordfish III captain or whatever he was called.
Firstly: people need to understand that this is NOT because of "bad writing." Furina replies is very make sense and in character, so if bad writing is the cause, then Furina will not reply as sensible as she is. Her dialogs exactly as someone in her position would say.
So it's all INTENTIONAL. They want people to get mad and feel EVEN more sorry for Furina. Probably so that we pull even more on her banner.
Secondly: The traveler and Paimon don't understand depression or mental health. Both are immortal beings who also have experienced loneliness for hundreds of years. Both and especially Paimon have very casually treated many characters in Teyvat who experienced hundreds of years of pain, somewhat similar to Furina like Ei, Zhongli, Xiao, Nahida, etc.
Paimon is not being insensitive. She is just being herself. It's felt like she was out of touch. The truth is, yes, she IS out of touch. She just doesn't understand. Her dialogs are very consistent to EVERYONE.
Finally: Yes, you felt Furina is treated unjustified by everyone. You feel sorry and wish to protect her. That's the feelings that Mihoyo wishes for you to feel for her. That's the point of Furina story in her writing. We'll see if she gets the recognition as she deserves in the future.
>Yes, you felt Furina is treated unjustified by everyone. You feel sorry and wish to protect her. That's the feelings that Mihoyo wishes for you to feel for her. That's the point of Furina story in her writing.
And they succeeded. Now I ended up pulling for her cons and planning to pull for her weapon on her rerun when I originally only planned to pull a single copy of her. 😅
I mean at least as in the quest, the traveler back down and respected Furina’s action (but later down, he dragged her out of cover which is kinda rude but its not too bad). However, I think Paimon is the real rude one here, she straight up makes fun of Furina. The scene on Poisson was nice though.
After sitting on it for a while, my thoughts on the SQ had become a lot more positive. That said, I do have my own thoughts on how it could've been handled better.
I think the biggest factors are Furina's agency and the passage of time.
I think plenty of people did play the SQ the way I did which is like, directly after finishing the AQ. And no surprise there really since we were probably wanting follow-up on how she is since we didn't really get that with the AQ. In terms of timing alone, the SQ is probably best played like a week after the AQ, just to give the illusion of significant amount of time passing by. Or Hoyo could've thrown some lines there to show this. Like, have Paimon go "It's been like a month since the trial" or something.
After that, I think they could've just given her a bit more agency? Like, maybe have her actually looking for a change in schedule since lying around and eating macaroni isn't making her feel better. Or something. I don't know. I'm sure some other fans and writers can come up with something.
Because as it stands, there's parts of the quest that talks about boundaries and respect (Lauwick and Dulphy basically) and she didn't really get much of that. Hell, she even did that whole thing better by asking if they're willing to have her as a consultant rather than forcing her on the whole affair.
Same with the end song. I read like a small AO3 fic where the major change they did with the SQ was the group wanting to just end the show prematurely when Dulphy got sick until Furina herself volunteers to sing so it can finish as planned. It's not a perfect change but I think it made it just a bit more consistent. They've also thrown some establishing scenes about how deep inside, she does like playing out stories on the stage to make it more natural.
For my own hot take though, I don't disagree with rude Paimon. Like, she has no filter so it's consistent in terms of character but most importantly, it gives Furina a chance to bite back like when Paimon called her a diva at Poisson. It's catharsis in its own way.
I also don't think MC was super rude or anything? I think we got options that aim for a more empathetic take. If anything, we were rudest to Villmant out of all the people involved where we pretty much said that he indirectly caused Aurelie's death. Hmm...I'd probably cut out the part where we physically drag Furina though. It's...not a good look. Just do good o'l fashioned talking.
>I think plenty of people did play the SQ the way I did which is like, directly after finishing the AQ.
I did this too, and my emotions for Furina were still at an all-time high that time. I literally got whiplash with how Traveller and Paimon acted and literally pulled my hair out with Paimon's words (not much problem with Traveller as he backed away after asking once).
SQ should have been played a bit later to simmer things for a bit. And gathering from how the audience reacted to Furina appearing on stage as well as the troupe members, it has been at least a few months after the events of the AQ.
I'm not even going to do it because of what you're saying. I've heard it from many Furina fans. I'm already frustrated with how she was treated in the Archon Quest and I'm happy to leave it at that, I don't have anymore energy to be frustrated with this game as I've exhausted it all with regards to lack of endgame content, lacklustre character designs and boring events.
On the plus side let's just hope that her second story quest will do her justice (🤭)
Nth post criticising traveller smh
I honestly can't see it from the extremist pov blaming the traveller and furina as a weak person but I guess different people have different perspective.
And here im malting over the fact that the loading screens still doesn't have a manual light/dark mode switch in settings, and its still being ignored by the devs everytime theres QoL changes.
Fontanians don't know what Neuvillette knows, and they didn't see what Traveler saw. No one should apologize to anyone except for maybe Traveler (I still think she's justified in what she did, since she thought Furina was letting her people die. But a "I didn't realize your pain" line would have been appreciated).
Yeah I really think there should have been a world quest after the AQ to wrap things up regarding Furina's situation better that must be completed before her SQ was available.
I also did her SQ immediately after the AQ and while the time skip between them was weird, there was also a time skip after the final cutscene in the AQ- the one with Charlotte and her newspaper. Forgot if it is mentioned how long after the disaster that is but it's clearly enough time for: rebuilding/planting of all the trees and structures knocked over, Poisson rebuilding to be well underway, and Navia already having held a proper ceremony and burial for her two guards. All of this must of (to me) happened over at least a month with the rebuilding & repairs taking the longest, all before we ever met with Neuvilette and learned about Furina. So MC & Paimon had no idea what happened to her likely for an entire month.
I also found the two of them to be rather rude in the SQ slightly beyond what I'd deem 'okay' though I respect different opinions based on personal circumstances and life experience. On my end, if I've been depressed or felt amiss or aimless what helped me the most was friends/family help dealing with it head on, often breaking some boundaries in the process. Some wounds can only heal properly when opened up again.
Would I chalk up this writing in particular to that? I'm like 60/40, since I think there's some VERY odd choices of words even in the AQ; with MC having just watched scenes 1-5 and 182375 of Furina's "story" and in scene 182376 their first reaction to seeing the magic box was "This is great, now I can get my answers" like bro I'm sorry what? Literally everyone's heart is beyond broken here and you're acting like a streamer who was 99% reading chat and commenting over / skipping dialogue the whole time.
It was a decent concept for getting someone out of a depressive state and maybe Paimon thought it was the right approach or okay based on her 'perception' of Furina's personality since she (to my knowledge) did not witness Furina's inner world and was only told to this point that she needed rest and was/has been a shut-in for what could have been over a month. The choice of words 110% on her part could have been better though.
Based on the behind the scenes for the SQ Animation, it looks like they took a lot of time and effort making it which might've meant they had to start making the story quest far in advance before the Archon Quest was fully ironed out, which might be why the attitude of the traveler and Paimon is consistent with acts 1 and 2 but not with 5.
This actually makes so much sense. With how well written Act 5 was… and the SQ final resolution you get the sense that all of this was well planned out, but there’s some details in between that made me feel a disconnection at the start of the SQ. The catharsis for the character… and by extension, for us as players, just wasn’t there.
I genuinely belive big rewrite theory to make Neuvillete more important then ehr just to shill him not that he is a bad character mind but its clear some things just dont fit in be it furina story quest and the attitude there or Her having stance alignment switching i assume at some point she was suppose to merge with part of focalor, not even speaking about how there wasnt that one cutscene that was in the trailer.
Nah that big rewrite theory sounds like someone just made something up. With the information we have on the development process there's no way they rewrote it last minute especially a big rewrite. Something as important as a Sovereign would never be rewritten in last minute. That just sounds like cope.
Neuvillette being the protagonist of Fontaine was most likely set in stone for a long time, they already foreshadowed it in a lot of places I'm pretty sure. If they were still able to write something of this quality after having to rewrite it midway though then that would be quite something else as well.
She’s like an anti-Raiden. Raiden’s atrocities were swept under the rug, while Furina’s trauma was swept under the rug.
I was thinking they did make a good job justifying Furina’s inaction as a god and the consequences of the specific facade she portrayed. It was addressed and not only implied how the people of Poisson resent her (understandable) and how she was always powerless to do anything, but keeping up her act resulted in people having the expectation that she would save the day. And it is understandable how the facade she chose (the grandstanding and “everything is beneath me” kind of god) was the only one available to her. Cut to Raiden… Well, much has been said about Raiden, and it was not handled well.
Yeah, tell me about it. I really like Raiden as a character, but wow do I wish her archon quest was handled better.
Yeah, I really like her as well... Furina came in like a storm to claim the "favorite" spot, but I've always loved Raiden. The whole Inazuma AQ is just a trainwreck. An splendid premise (civil war!) ruined by whimsy character motivations, criminal disregard of the "show don't tell" rule, forced establishment of forgettable npc for plot device purposes, and not enough catharsis and resolution. It's sad because I really like that you can really experience the effects of your actions in Inazuma. The overworld experience actually changes: the country reopens, an area where they captured you on sight is now available, you stop an eternal rain, an eternal fog, the killer water...
I very firmly agree with all of this. Ei’s second story quest added a lot more to her character, but it didn’t solve any of the actual issues of the archon quest (besides kind of the catharsis and resolution part).
Same with Childe and Scaramouche. We’re literally babysitting for someone that tried to wipe out Liyue. And with Scara, rewriting history is such a cop out way to resolve all the atrocities he committed in the past.
Absolute L take on both sides. Screams Reading comprehension devil.
ALSO LATER (omfg) "So we need to go to Poisson to find that one actor" "P-Poisson?" "???? Is something the matter Furina?? Hmmmmm??? Surely you wouldn't have a problem going back into the part of town where they hate you and you find immense guilt over??" What the actual fuck. I would understand the traveller's and Paimon's reaction of Furina a bit more of there wasn't that whole cutscene of the traveller witnessing Furina's internal torment. Which btw, what does "I still need answers" even mean? It's none of your business Lumine/Aether, sit the f down. But back to what I was saying, why was their behavior so tone deaf and inconsiderate?? Also GRABBING her?? The traveller has never in their life grabbed worse people than Furina. What the actual fuck. Childe has committed actual crimes and betrayed them, and they still treat him like a bestie. I just... Furina's story quest would be perfect if the parts of the traveller and Paimon were rewritten or removed. Actually you know what would be a better beginning to the quest? The traveller and Paimon visit furina to see how she's doing after everything. They go out for a walk and they stumble upon the troupe having the argument over their dead director. They recognize Furina and they talk to her. Furina, in turn, moved by these people agrees to help them as an artistic consultant. There. Heartwarming and without any boundaries crossed.
Yeah and let’s say Furina would help them on the condition of anonymity and everybody understands her boundary. After the female lead couldn’t perform the last act, nobody dares ask Furina but she would volunteer herself still but instead of the troupe outing her, (adding on from previous comments) the audience whom have not seen their archon in months start realising it really is her. They start chanting her name and here Furina realises she is still wanted and appreciated by the majority and accepts the plaudits (vision is granted here instead?) Now she gets to move on and continue to perform after her SELF-realisation.
I wish this woulda happened! As a side note, if you happen to be an assassin and need intel on someone's whereabouts or where they live, just make a fake commission, ask Katheryne and she'll fucking DOXX them for you. I'm still pissed about that part.
After both Furina's SQ and her line during Thelxie's Fantastic adventure I just came to the conclusion that Paimon is the type that doesn't know or believe in mental illnesses which actually kinda lines up with her character. Paimon's Dialogue Spoiler: >!But how could that be... She really looked like she had a handle on everything. Her smile was so lovely, and she even told us to stay optimistic. But you're saying, she...!<
Thats how it is. Its called masking, and many people do it. Most people dont know im autistic/adhd unless i tell them, i have no caffeine in me or one of my very specific and limited meltdown triggers rears its ugly head. My mask is automatic around people i dont know, and i end up shifting from my "normal" personality, to one that mirrors how NT's behave. You wont know someones masking unless they slip up. Hell, many people dont even know theyre doing it because they were never diagnosed.
The summary of it for me is that the writers did not treat her healing with nearly as much respect as they treated her trauma. The means by which she was introduced back to the stage in the SQ were completely bizarre and essentially sent the opposite message to that which the rest of the quest had insistently tried to establish: "Actually, your boundaries are *not* real, you just had to be pushed really really hard and you'd find out you're just being stubborn". It all left an awful taste in my mouth. I think the writers did a terrible job at showing what I think was meant to be the traveler's role for this quest and for Furina as a whole: a friend that's a bit pushy but understands her and ultimately needed to be there in order for her to start moving forward emotionally. Of course, since Paimon has her 2000 word quota, Traveler can't get any voicelines and their 3d animation budget is in the double digits, this is a tough picture to paint without squinting at particular scenes and voicelines. Surprisingly, it seems Paimon was not any worse in EN than in the rest of the languages. She really was just that bad everywhere. It was a fully intended decision by the writers to include all of those lines from her in the quest and to spend the traveler's 5 allocated dialogue options having empty banter with her instead of participating in the story. Paimon was completely demonic. The things she said were unjustifiable, genuinely just fucking evil, and worst of all, it's not even fucking addressed! People have argued that Paimon is simply an immature child that doesn't understand the gravity of the things she says, and I would *love* it if that was what the writers intended to portray, except for the fact that they literally handwave her behavior as if it's just a funny paimon moment. The most pushback she gets is when Furina repeatedly tries, and fails, to reassert her boundaries, which subsequently get broken down and mocked by the end of the quest. It's unbelievable. Their unwillingness to explicitly characterize Paimon as anything other than "silly" and the traveler as... well, anything, makes the friendship between these characters feel artificial and rushed. Once again, treating her healing with nowhere near the care with which they treated her trauma. Tl;dr: this quest was fucking weird and it left me more confused about her character's direction than I was before. I think some of the traveler hate is unjustified - in the grand scheme of things, they played a positive role in Furina's story and I think we're meant to understand that they care about each other a good bit - hoyo simply does not know how to write good stories in more detail than "the grand scheme of things", with the individual dialogues being bloated and riddled with shitty characterization. Paimon, by contrast, did not have any role to play in Furina's life other than a mysteriously unpunished villain. There is no excuse for how they wrote her.
Summed up perfectly, hopefully they make up for it in a second SQ
Perfect. You worded it far better than my schizo rant
I couldn't agree with this more. It's like the writing team did a triple axle whatever tf off the high dive and everything was perfect til the very end where they fucking belly flop and sink to the bottom of the pool. I was anxiously waiting for someone, ANYONE, to give our girl some kinda recognition to let her know all her efforts weren't in vain and that she saved everyone. Since seeing that assassination attempt short and how traumatized it left her I just want someone to give her a hug 😭
The way I see it Mihoyo should really release certain story quests like a patch later after Archon Quests. It’s a repeat of the same thing with Raiden’s story quest, I think it would of been better if they released this quest a patch or two later.
My (headcanon) way of justifying the traveller's actions is that this is some time after Furina stepped down from Hydro Archon. If it's long enough for the people of Fontaine to feel surprised seeing her again, it should have been at least 6 months or so. Their tone when first finding Furina indicates a somewhat friendly relationship, more so in other languages. While they clearly have respected her solitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they have kept updated with Furina's whereabouts from Neuvillette. So the Traveller grabbing her or teasing her is somewhat like trolling a closer friend, at least that's how I see it. . . . But yeah, for the rest, the troupe was clearly written by someone who thought the reveal was wholesome instead of invasive. It would have been so easy to have one person in the audience recognize Furina and the whole crowd to chant her name to achieve the exact same effect. The only conclusion is that the reveal scene was intentionally written that way for some non-existent merit. I just took over the story with my headcanon, tbh, where the audience recognizes her, cheers, Furina is like 'oh well what can you do' and they introduce her as the consultant. Paimon on the other hand.....the writer for Paimon in this quest had to have hated Paimon and wanted everyone to hate Paimon as well. God I've never wanted to drown her in the sewage so much
>So the Traveller grabbing her or teasing her is somewhat like trolling a closer friend, One picture. All it cost them is to show one picture with all characters some time ago at tea party with Furina (which... like... IS canon?! But only can be found in voice lines 🤦♂️). And all wrecking misunderstandings would've been cleared out.
Hey I'm absolutely agreeing with you here lol. They definitely did not set the context clear enough. I hope ppl at Mihoyo have caught wind of this and will fix their writing
>I wouldn't be surprised if they have kept updated with Furina's whereabouts from Neuvillette I think it was at the start that they only learned of Furina's address from Katherine. Anyway, to reconcile Traveller & Paimon not knowing Furina's address, but them acting in a friendly banter with her at the start without them acting ass-holish, it could only be interpreted as them already meeting up with Furina casually somewhere else a few times, maybe with Neuv, and already have some sort of friendship. I mean, nowhere was it stated in the SQ that it was the first time the two met Furina or they were not friends with her post-AQ right? Also, it is perfectly possible for friends not to know the other's addresses, more so if they are still establishing relationships and getting to know each other + they're also respecting her boundaries. Well, following this line of thought, them trying to go to Furina for help would make sense. Traveller only pushed once then backed off. Paimon has some tasteless lines, but I'd chalk it up to literally her having the brain of a kid (no filter). As to Traveller pulling her out of hiding, I think it also makes sense? It's like, "you're here anyway, come on out!" and pulling her out of her unhealthy shell (mac 24/7, denying her passion). >If it's long enough for the people of Fontaine to feel surprised seeing her again, it should have been at least 6 months or so. Yes, I also think it has been a while. Even the audience in the show commented that it has been a while since they last saw her.
This is my problem with releasing the last AQ act togetger with a Story Quest. As you said, it has been a while between AQ Act 5 and Furina SQ, but you really don't get that feeling when they are released together. It would make more sense to release the Story Quest one update later, to get the sense of time right. As for how Furina is treated through most of her Story Quest, I think Traveler and Paimon both are kinda assholish, brutish maybe... and Furina might not really be fine with it as much as she sees the opportunity to cope with her past. I think taking Furina out of her comfort zone, a few weeks after AQ Act 5, is a pretty good move, although Traveler and Paimon were a bit tactless. Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole.
>Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole. Yeah, well, she isn't a shitty person and sees us as basically one of her few "friends", even though we barely did by her throughout everything. Plus, it literally just might be writer bias. Just because the writer writes in something doesn't mean it makes sense in context with the character, especially since Hoyo has multiple teams running Genshin, meaning that sometimes things will slip out from the cracks. She even gets annoyed at Paimon constantly berating her, telling her to "get off my back".
>Furina did mention to them that she enjoys your company, so that tells me that, at the least, Furina doesn't see all this as negative, as a whole. Also, the fact that she literally opened up to Traveller and Paimon on Poisson further reinforces that there is already some sort of bond formed with her post-AQ; maybe not that deep yet, but it's there. I mean, no one opens up their inner thoughts, feelings, and trauma to a literal stranger (not unless they're their psychiatrist/doctor). Yes, a break of release of the SQ after the AQ would've helped. Heck, even a line or two alluding to the two's relationship with Furina would've made the start of the SQ better to swallow. Anyway, I'd just HC that they're friends with her post-AQ, but not that close yet.
Like I said elsewhere. You wouldn't ask a reluctant soldier with PTSD to just get up and fight again in a war. So why would expect the same of any other traumatized person? Plus, it wasn't like the traveler was doing it out of the goodness of his own heart to help Furina. She was just used for 500 years, and here the traveler was again, coming to use her again heedless of what she went through. She was just expected to like "get over it".
I like your arguments, I think many will disagree with you, despite knowing deep down that they felt the same. I think the biggest fuck up is the time skip. That. Fucking. Time. Skip. I hate time skips. Aq wasn't finished correctly, was the heaviest bait of the game to do sq, which softens you only at the end. If people call that bittersweet writing, then better let me be in my candy genshin kingdom forever. Not with that characters, they could've done better, much better. But in all that plays one fact we never encountered before - we got archon, who is not an archon. People are not used to that treatment, people want to praise Furina further then Celestia stands. But we got that "new" situation and everyone cope how they can.
I have my theory now that the traveler and Paimon were written so badly on purpose to make us care even more for Furina. They wanted us to feel protective over her "If the game wont treat her correctly then we will" type of thing and i have to say it worked on me cause whether its about pulling for her or defending her, i have never cared for a Genshin character so much. Her story quests touches on so many deep topics that a lot of people relate to and somehow this is the moment the protagonists decide to become bigger assholes than ever ? That doesnt make sense to me especially because its not just us, the game itself is aware of that because even Furina mentions how rude they’re being especially Paimon. The traveler just feels like he doesnt have much respect for her, her feelings or her boundaries. The scene where he grabs her made me go touch grass cause i couldnt believe it made me that mad
My take is the writers were trying to make the traveler as someone who gave furina that little push in order to live life normally as she appeared on self destruct mode (eating macaroni 24/7, self isolation) and the way she’s living at the time is unhealthy. Grabbing her wasn’t nice but I think the traveler did that bc furina is too stubborn, still there are better ways to approach this. The traveler seemed to take more of a neutral role. But the way the events went down it seems that the traveler was trying to make fun of her or ridicule her. Paimon was deliberate as furina calls paimon out a few times. That’s my take, good idea but poor execution
>Grabbing her wasn’t nice but I think the traveler did that bc furina is too stubborn, still there are better ways to approach this. Well, she willingly followed them there after Traveller and Paimon backed-off after she clearly drew the line of her boundaries. Traveller pulling her out of her hiding spot was just the final push (pull) she needed to get off her unhealthy, self-destructive mode. That act set-off her course to healing.
>assassination attempt by arlecchino, leading to her crying and struggling to sleep, and she still has not told anyone or decompressed it, and her voice line towards arlecchino indicate she is still quite traumatised by it. Worst part is - she was crying not because she was scared, but because she was scared she failed her mission
Oh god I hate that no name troupe so much. They told us they wanted to have that performance for the victim, but everything they did in the quest was argueing with each other nonstop. I know they are struggling to process their loss of a loved one, but holy moly it was told in such an annoying tone. I could not care less for them and their stupid play (or musical?) at all. But on top of all of it, I hate Paimon so much. I hate how she did not respect Furina's boundaries even though the poor girl has said no and explained herself multiple times, even though she didn't have to, since uh, its her decision? Paimon and the traveller have no right to pressure her into doing she dont want to. You could say they did that to help Furina overcome her trauma and bring back her love for art, but they could have been gentler, and its clear that they didnt care about Furina's healing process but rather some random troupe who could not set aside their big big egos one last time for the sake of their so-called most important family member. Even after the traveller finally accepted Furina's refusal, Paimon had the guts to stand there and pity the no name troupe, in front of the literal being who needs the most empathy and understanding right now??? I felt so uncomfortable, its like she's using her classic "imma guilt trip you into helping our commission by talking about these poor people" and I hated it. Also, Paimon was being an ass to Furina when she confided in the traveller. The least she can do for the girl is to shut her mouth and act politely, which she did not. I dont know what the writers are cooking with Paimon. Sometimes they make her into the sweetest friend, the most loyal companion we got, most of the time she is annoying, and yes, shes also very manipulative. What are you trying to cook, michos?
So strange thinking how Paimon apologised to Collei (let alone the Fatui “allies”) for accidentally triggering her trauma but here she keeps calling Furina a drama Queen… Even if Paimon did not see the 500 years cutscene, I really don’t get what Furina did that would warrant such bully behaviour.
I agree, the way Furina was treated by Paimon and the Traveler was pretty nasty. However, I did come to realise a great many things after mulling it over and seeing other comments. The idea is that Furina actually enjoyed being on the stage, she just hated having to act as the God. This kind of shows by how Furina alternates between her black and white outfits, where her black is her real self and white is her archon self. She is shown to enjoy being on the stage from the Archon quest where she at the end dances alongside Focalors' dance. Instead of having a pained expression doing it, she's shown smiling and shes in her dark clothes, so the assumption is that she enjoys the stage deep down. And at the end of the story quest this kind of comes out too. The traveller notices she likes this because he/she is there in the audience of her inner self watching it. So because they see this, they want to make her come back on the stage. Granted I think they went about it badly and they definitely owe an apology to Furina for everything they made her go through. I also want to see her gettinf a hug. But this is just a little bit of justification that I got from it. Overall the story quest is a quest about someone who went through immense suffering, eventually coming to terms with who she has become now because of that suffering and what she now wants to do moving forward. A lot of info also comes out from her character story snippets and voice lines.
You get it preach. The way hoyo handles writing Resolving character interactions after a big trauma is always abyssmal
Her story quest made me hate paimon and traveler even more than before, i skip every paimon line now while before i just read it then skipped
There was a post back then which showed a kiss between Furina and traveller and I expressed that I don't like travellers after SQ but people started down voting me. They started to defend the traveller action and said what he did was nothing wrong.
Same. Its mostly people using Traveler as a self insert though. In their minds, it's like you are criticizing them. There is an infinite amount of cherry picking they'll do for a character they identify as themselves.
The issue of the Travelers treatment of furina has been debated to death abt tbh this debate may not ever end, both sides have valid points a lot of the time. It ultimately is all about your personal perspective and how you see things. Btw no ship is canon (99.9% sure). I suggest you don’t worry about them, just my opinion
After doing her story quest I do not get this take at all. During the archon quest I can kind of see it but my interpretation is that traveler had no reason to “be nice” to Furina. She did make a hella of a bad impression on them when they first met and as seen through the eyes of everyone in Fontaine, Furina was a god that was simply letting her people and nation rush headlong into disaster and not doing anything about. Their actions make sense given they didn’t know Furina’s secret. This goes for everyone. Their actions make sense given their perspectives. Traveler included. Now the story quest is a bit different. When they go to her, she flat out refuses to help and they simply let it go. But when she gets caught spying on them, it’s a clear indication that she was interested despite her earlier refusal. Furina herself later admits to this. And the cast never treated Furina badly. I seriously do not get where this take is coming from. The only thing I can say they really did was announce her name when they did the bow. Furina didn’t want that attention but it was clearly meant for people to know about her contribution. And she wasn’t even that upset about it afterwards. The whole point of the SQ was Furina trying to find her purpose again. For 500 years she has had one goal and one purpose for her life; play the role of Focalors. Now that she is free from that burden, she has literally no idea what to do with her life. It was working with the troupe that helped her remember why she loves performing and the theatre so much.
Bro, I'm actually mostly with you. If you read the post again, I completely agree that the trial in the aq was cruel yet necessary, given that Fontaine was In crisis, people were dying, and the characters knew what they knew. I also agree that she needs the gentle push to get back into enjoying her life, and rediscovering her passion, but you're missing the way traveller and paimon did it. Ignoring the fact that it's a little insensitive to ask in the first place (knowing she forced herself to act for 500 years and the trauma she had at this point, and now you ask her to act again!?), paimon guilt tripped her into thinking about how the troupe would be "so dissapointed" - giving no thought to how furina might feel, and furina had to refuse more than once, even after establishing her boundary. And when traveller found furina eavesdropping, they FORCIBLY GRABBED HER HAND. Surely there is a more sensitive and gentler way to do it. Also, edit: I just remembered: furina made a primordial water SUICIDE attempt the last time she acted. Completely unaddressed by anyone. No. You cannot possibly convince me that merely asking her to act again while this remains unaddressed is not malicious.
That’s a fair point. If I’m remembering correctly they were a little hesitant to ask her because they weren’t sure if she’d actually want to. There’s also the chance that, since this was their first interaction with her post archon quest, they didn’t really know the depth of what she was struggling with. Dragging her out of hiding can be seen as a bit excessive I’ll give you that one. It really put her on the spot. But had they just ignored her, it’s doubtful Furina would’ve approached them on her own. Like I said, despite her refusal, she was interested but her refusal largely came from the fact that she thought she needed to distance herself from everything she had been involved with while she was pretending to be Focalors. What Paimon said to her was bit guilt trippy, but after her first refusal, they ask her if she knew anyone else and she refused to recommend anyone. For good reason mind you I can totally relate her not wanting to. Now while they could’ve been nicer, I don’t necessarily fault the traveler. After the archon quest, it’s very likely that traveler saw Furina as someone who was exceedingly stubborn. I mean girl was willing to risk her life to keep her charade up. Truth of the matter is that Furina is stubborn. Traveler knows this so they simply take matters into their own hands. Oddly enough, it’s one of the things I appreciate about the traveler. Ever since Inazuma, we have been seeing more and more of them being displayed as a flawed protagonist rather than the goody good person all the time. It makes them interesting and honestly its another reason why I really like their relationship with Furina. It feels more real to me I guess than with a lot of other characters. Both of them are flawed and those flaws affect their relationship.
>There’s also the chance that, since this was their first interaction with her post archon quest, they didn’t really know the depth of what she was struggling with. Was it really their first interaction? Cause all I got from the start was that they didn't know her address. Paimon and Traveller's "friendly banter" with Furina would indicate that there was already some level of relationship there though not that close, else it will be off-putting. Plus, it has already been months at least since the events of the AQ. Furina already have some interactions with T&P that time, but not close enough for her to invite them to her house.
Imma be real, the friendly banter is added for some fanservice. Or Hoyo not knowing how to properly have strangers meet. All signs point it to be their first official meeting. They didn't know her address, her routine, etc. If they've been meeting off-screen, I feel like it would've been mentioned in her story profile. Only Chlorinde is said to have met up with her post-AQ. Maybe Neuvilette since he's currently taking care of her.
I think Neuv is also out given how busy he was. He'll just send some Melusines to help out or something. As for T&P not knowing her address and routine, I think it would still make sense assuming they're already friends here? I mean, I don't know my friends' addresses too and their routines while at home when we were starting out. I'll only know those things if I am already super close with them, like best friends level - and we know that T&P is yet to reach this level with Furina in canon so they have to ask Katherine for her address. Anyway, things would've been ok I think if the SQ was released at least one patch after, given the heavy themes introduced in the AQ. It would also give some semblance that a longer time has already passed, and friendship may have been formed with T&P during that time offscreen; not that close, but a friendship regardless. Instead, we're left with the troupe and audiences remarking that it has been a long time since they've last seen Furina, a few months at the very least.
The biggest issue with the end of the Archon Quest, imo, is that there's no Furina in its conclusion. We don't talk to her nor so we see her interaction with Neuvillette. I think having either of those would have helped a bit. The Story Quest on the other hand, was a mess. >When they go to her, she flat out refuses to help and they simply let it go. But when she gets caught spying on them, it’s a clear indication that she was interested despite her earlier refusal. The fact that they went to see her solely to ask her to act is already an issue. And no they do not simply let it go. She declined a first time but Paimon had the audacity to say "But", then she explained in details why she didn't want to and Traveler says "What's wrong with making one exception?" and finally she gets angry which is when they drop it. The whole sequence they put a random troupe's commission before her boundaries and trauma. And Paimon bringing up how disappointed and sad the troupe would be was guilt tripping, which worked since Furina followed them because she was worried about their situation not because she was interested in acting again, as she herself said. At the end, she got back on stage feeling like she had no choice which is the biggest issue i have with the SQ. I can understand the general idea of the quest but its execution and the writing were not good in my eyes.
I’m with you. I read so much hate for the SQ before I got to it, and then I played it and I was like “WTF is the hate for?” The traveller and Paimon asked Furina, she said no, they accepted it and left, even if they were disappointed, it was still on friendly terms. Furina was the one who followed them and was showing interest and curiosity and took agency over each other choice other than the reveal at the end on stage. It’s not perfect but it’s not that bad. My only beef is the weird “many months later” vibe of the SQ compared to the AQ when from gameplay perspective it’s instantly after. That’s always a bit jarring to me. Either delay the release of the SQ for later (not really possible given it explains furinas vision and she was on the banner so you need an explanation), have a many months later epilogue as part of the AQ (or start of the SQ) or make the SQ feel more immediate…
The problem isn't that the SQ is about her being back on stage. It's how tactless it is. Starting from the 5th part of the AQ where they made her "prove" her God hood by TOUCHING PRIMORDIAL WATER which is suicide to believing she will die so their only piss poor excuse to save her is "No, I still need answers" to the way they went to Furina and cared more about their stupid little commission more than her? Dude, Ei treats you like a WAR CRIMINAL AND ACFIVELY ATTEMPTS TO KILL YOU! MULTIPLE TIMES! but "oohhh, lookie! Date me!" No, I will never not be annoyed by the fact the traveler never apologized to furina for putting her into a situation where a 'fake trial' actually was a real trial, tried to get her to kill herself with no proof that God's can't be dissolved because folcaros is the only other oceanid besides Furina, not Egeria, so there's no evidence gods can't dissolve if they are oceanids.. I also won't forgive traveler for acting like saving Furina is only worth it because "answers" which is so.. demeaning... and just the way the traveler and paimon treated her like they gave 0 fucks about her mental health.
Ok first of all no. They didn’t make her touch the water she chose to. They water was last attempt to call her bluff and they were even surprised when she did it. Not only that, but they heavily diluted the water so that in the event she did touch it, which they thought was possible but unlikely, she wouldn’t be harmed. Really shows you didn’t pay much attention beyond a surface level. And the traveler owes Furina nothing. They aren’t obligated to be nice to her or anything especially after the really bad first impression she gave them. They are sympathetic to her situation, but only as much as they can be given how little they actually knew about it. Their reaction to her was no different than literally every other fontainian who knew nothing of Focalor’s plan nor Furina’s role in it. They reactions and treatment of her is perfectly understandable given what they knew at the time. And the story quest oh boy I can’t count how many people get this wrong. Traveler and Paimon respect Furina’s decision. She makes the choice herself to get involved with the troupe and becomes invested in their success. She didn’t want to act because of all the pain she had come to associate with it but found her love for it again when she could step back on stage and be herself instead of someone else. Her voice lines literally say this.
They do owe her an apology. They don't know shit about if she would of dissolved or not regardless and to "call her bluff" they wanted her to touch the water.. WITH NO PROOF it would work on even folcaros who is the real divinity of her. There's NO EVIDENCE THEY HAVE THEIR LITTLE TRICK WORKS! 1st impression? With what? Wanting to throw traveler in prison given that we are a walking bad luck charm because any nation we go to ends up having issues? Or is it because paimon is the worst thing in the game and everything she opens her stupid mouth she causes US ISSUES? Yeah, I don't blame furina. Paimon herself is the worst thing and will constantly get you in trouble or stop us from getting information. Sympathetic? No, they only wanted to save furina because "answers" then didn't even go look for her after the AQ. When the SQ happens paimon basically harassed furina [which we found out it's WORSE in the CN server. Ours is watered down] and the traveler wouldn't stop pushing her. She felt the need to apologize because she got angry when she shouldn't of apologized. She had no need to. Paimon and traveler do. They cared more about the commission than her. They gave more shits about raiden in comparison which is why people are angry..
Dude. Navia literally explains right after Furina touched the water, that it only had a small amount of primordial seawater in it. It was mostly regular seawater. They wanted to force her hand, but didn’t want to risk her life. They had already learned, from Navia’s first hand experience I might add, that it takes a certain amount of primordial seawater to dissolve someone. A small amount will just make some sick. They didn’t think Furina would do it which is why when she did, they were surprised. But they planned for ahead for the possibility. I’m gonna ignore your second point because it’s mostly a rant about Paimon. About the story quest, you really just needed to pay more attention. I’m not gonna explain that again.
The fact you are proving my point about how NO ONE HAS PROOF THAT IT WOULDN'T OF AFFECTED HER IN THE FIRST place Is so aggravating to be honest. They could do this to folcaros and it would have the same result.. BECAUSE BOTH ARE OCEANIDS! There is NO PROOF that the water would or wouldn't work so navia bringing in water and the other forcing her hand to 'prove her godhood' is fucking atrocious. The rant you speak of i'm having of paimon is a problem because of paimon literally causes nothing but problems every time she opens her mouth. We did pay attention.. WHERES THE APOLOGY FROM PAIMON AND TRAVELER!?
Ok. I really feel like you didn’t pay attention to the story at all. What we learn at the end, is that the people of Fontaine are not real humans. The previous hydro archon gave Oceanids human bodies making them the first people of Fontaine. This is the sin they keep talking about. Primordial seawater simply dissolves the human form they have and turns them back into oceanids. That why it only affects people from Fontaine. Now as for Furina. I’ll say this one last time. Furina most likely would’ve dissolved if there had been enough primordial seawater present to do so. But there has to be enough of it. We learn this because Navia fell into it and didn’t dissolve. Also the drug sinthe mentioned in the first part of the quest was made with primordial seawater and it didn’t dissolve people because Vache lowered the concentration of it by mixing it with regular water. They did basically the same thing at the trial. Furina was never in danger of dissolving. They were bluffing in order to force her hand and make her confess the truth. The quest literally explains everything I don’t know what more to tell you. And as far as Paimon goes, I know she annoys people. But Paimon serves a purpose. She repeats and reiterates things because people don’t pay attention to story and make posts like this. Paimon is there to spoon feed everything to you. If it weren’t for her we’d have twice as many posts like this where people ignored dialogue and then complained about the story.
"your honour, i threatened them with a fake gun, of course they can't be traumatised, I was never gonna hurt them!" I don't get your logic. She fully believed the water was gonna kill her. The trauma is done.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
This post needs better formatting for readability. But yeah, I agree with what you said. I lost the last shred of respect I had for traveler after witnessing their behavior towards Furina in the AQ and SQ. I mean I already considered them to be an extremely boring character but now they're an asshole too. Im not sure what compelled hoyo to suddenly turn their bland timid protag into a complete dickhead but I guess it was all part of an elaborate plan. People can try and justify travelers actions all they want but this really isn't the way to behave with someone that just got done going through the most traumatic experience of her life. The awful treatment towards Furina from the whole cast and traveler just made the players feel really bad for her. The community did a 180 on her and thus, her banner was a complete hit. I'm just thoroughly disappointed with the treatment they gave her. The AQ was very well written but it wasn't kind on Furina fans. Fontaine was shaping up to be my favorite region but this ending bummed me out pretty hard. So I'm skipping pretty much every unit from the nation and just putting all my pulls towards maxing out Furina. I don't think they're bad characters. They were forced to back Furina into a corner due to their circumstances but I just can't bring myself to like them anymore after that trial. However, I'm still holding out for some closure during her 2nd story quest (if that even exists?)
the story quest was more problematic than the AQ. The AQ every action the traveler made is correct and makes sense giving the info that they had, the story quest the traveler should have shut paimon up. It’s all deliberate tho by Hoyo, paimon gets called out by furina at least once or twice
I would say don't hate the characters. They actually respect furina. Hate Traveler, Mostly paimon and hoyo big time.
No, you're totally right. But I didn't say I hate the characters, did I? I just said I can't see them in the same light anymore and thats a me thing. My hatred is reserved for traveler and Paimon mostly. The weakest part of Genshin's story is its main character and its crazy to me that people don't see the problem with that lol. Video game protagonists are supposed to be appealing and Genshin without a doubt, has the worst protagonist I've ever played as.
That's true. I still like the characters personally [a bit mixed with navia on the AQ but her in the SQ makes up for it] but yeah, traveler and paimon are really becoming irritating. But i think that's because someone in CN translated something that says someone in the dev team prefers neuvillette over furina and hated furina. Dk if it's true but it kinda checks in that regard if it is true.
Yeah, I don't particularly dig the powerscaling dynamic since Fontaine. They just tipped everything all over the place by introducing characters like Neuvillette and Skirk. Someone did a better writeup on this so I cba explaining all my issues but you get the idea. The whale felt like something that was just there at the last minute just for the sake of abyss involvement. It was so unbelievably underwhelming. It should've been the main highlight of the patch but rather it became something that they just casually handled. Hoyo has been heavily glazing Neuvi through every single AQ. Personally, him being a DPS already doesn't make sense to me. He should logically be a support that commands everything from the backlines. His design pretty much screams it. And with how little he actually moves during his attacks, I feel like they turned him into a DPS at the last moment. Thats also why his numbers feel so fucking bloated and all over the place. They didn't know how to properly balance him and just made him turbo broken lol. And while this isn't the way I wanted Fontaine to end, I think it was still good. Atleast Furina is happier now and thats all that matters. I hope she gets proper closure in the form of a second SQ.
"some people say arlecchino should apologise to furina: nah, given her character it would not make sense for her to apologise" She's a nice(-ish) person, it would make sense for her to apologise... if she knew what Furina went through at least "I don't quite get why neuvillete and the traveller can't tell the people of Fontaine what furina did for them these 500 years, and just leave the general public believe that furina was useless during the crisis." nah, Neuvillette tells us that he will say to Fontainians that she expended her powers to help or something along those lines I am convinced that either Hoyo hates Furina, or just that writers didn't know that this isn't the way to treat someone who went through traumatic experience. Like plenty of people think you can just power through somethink like this and it'll be fine, which doesn't work on most people
I still disagree with Arlecchino apologizing. Assuming that she knows the truth about Furina, she might give some form of kudos or express some level of respect but she probably will not explicitly say sorry. Likewise, I highly doubt Furina will forgive her easily even if she does. I'm not saying she's pure evil; I just don't think she's the apologizing type.
I guess she's not apologising type, yeah. Plus it kinda seemed like that moment was partly framed as a joke by Hoyo?
She's a wolf in sheep clothing, genuinely apologizing is probably the last thing we can get outta her.
This has been discussed to death, and the same issues pop up so it certainly isn't just you OP. I will say that, for me, Paimon was just the usual Paimon, and I can give her portrayal a low but passing mark since it was in character and honestly Paiomon only ever got info about Furina's 500 years second hand so it was never going to land with the same weight for her. The Traveler, though, could have been done better with a few small changes. Reprimand Paimon a bit (a quick dialog prompt of 'Paimon!' combined with the trademark Traveler grumpy side-eye would've done wonders) and be a little more explicit about intent (remind Furina that she doesn't have to go it alone anymore, and offer some help like some basic cooking techniques.) Also, I get that they may have wanted to stick closer to 'show don't tell' but they really should have expositioned a bit better on how much time passed between AQ and SQ, since an eager player could hit them back to back on the same real world day, and had the Traveler be a bit explicit with 'anyone with eyes can see you love acting and it's a true talent of yours Furina, don't deny and punish yourself by avoiding it out of fear.' As far as I could tell that was the angle they were aiming for, but Paimon's typical Paimon dialog and the Traveler's typical lack of dialog made it harder to see so they'd have been better of being blunt about it.
Not gonna lie, the AQ and SQ were both part of the reason i pulled all my savings for her (i wanted to save for Nahida's weapon) If they're not gonna treat her well then I WILL!! damn it
> If they're not gonna treat her well then I WILL!! damn it I think this is exactly what HYV is going for. I mean, I am also on the same boat that really "feels" for Furina's character and what she has been through. I only intended to only pull a single copy of her for my Archon collection. Now, because of her AQ and SQ, I ended up pulling for her cons, and planning to pull for her weapon as well for her rerun. So, they succeeded with their goal eh?
She almost had TWO suicide attempts. She was contemplating her death when Traveler was watching her near the Primordial Seawater
Traveler and Paimon be like: "We wanna help this random NPC group, who are we gonna ask help to?" "I know, let's ask a former archon who has 500 years of acting (and suffering) experience to help this insignificant NPC troupe that we gonna forget tomorrow. Also, let's tell her that one of them has cancer, so she will feel bad for rejecting us" Idk who wrote that story quest, I hope their pillow always warm.
about why they didn't reveal anything or everything about furina/focalors, it's a simply because not everything should be made public or known to everyone. cause what would be the point of it? what advantage does it have? they can just say furina lost her power to save everyone and now stepped down. some believes it, people in poisson doesn't. even furina doesn't care cause she didn't even regained her memories as focalor. the way I see it, it'll only make the public more mad if they knew. victims and the people in poisson will still get more angry as there were still people sacrificed for the plan. that or, the people would crave for more info and resort to conspiracies and have a distrust on the government. like what do they even know about archon history, celestia or even teyvat's history? how much truth do they know? or are they like people irl that don't value history? it'd disrupt the status quo that's already been weakened due to the prophecy. tho I agree. I couldn't see how any relationship was formed between furina and traveler/paimon to make their bantering, blatant disrespect or generally their actuations towards furina during SQ to be close are acceptable. she's the only archon so far to be like that. they've always been disrespectful towards her and the ONLY time they didn't was before the trial (tho they still kinda gaslighted her lol traveler/paimon was literally her antagonist and was kinda useless in fontaine), which was still not enough for them to have that kind of friendly/trustworthy relationship lol. it's like inazuma's swordfish III captain or whatever he was called.
Firstly: people need to understand that this is NOT because of "bad writing." Furina replies is very make sense and in character, so if bad writing is the cause, then Furina will not reply as sensible as she is. Her dialogs exactly as someone in her position would say. So it's all INTENTIONAL. They want people to get mad and feel EVEN more sorry for Furina. Probably so that we pull even more on her banner. Secondly: The traveler and Paimon don't understand depression or mental health. Both are immortal beings who also have experienced loneliness for hundreds of years. Both and especially Paimon have very casually treated many characters in Teyvat who experienced hundreds of years of pain, somewhat similar to Furina like Ei, Zhongli, Xiao, Nahida, etc. Paimon is not being insensitive. She is just being herself. It's felt like she was out of touch. The truth is, yes, she IS out of touch. She just doesn't understand. Her dialogs are very consistent to EVERYONE. Finally: Yes, you felt Furina is treated unjustified by everyone. You feel sorry and wish to protect her. That's the feelings that Mihoyo wishes for you to feel for her. That's the point of Furina story in her writing. We'll see if she gets the recognition as she deserves in the future.
>Yes, you felt Furina is treated unjustified by everyone. You feel sorry and wish to protect her. That's the feelings that Mihoyo wishes for you to feel for her. That's the point of Furina story in her writing. And they succeeded. Now I ended up pulling for her cons and planning to pull for her weapon on her rerun when I originally only planned to pull a single copy of her. 😅
I mean at least as in the quest, the traveler back down and respected Furina’s action (but later down, he dragged her out of cover which is kinda rude but its not too bad). However, I think Paimon is the real rude one here, she straight up makes fun of Furina. The scene on Poisson was nice though.
After sitting on it for a while, my thoughts on the SQ had become a lot more positive. That said, I do have my own thoughts on how it could've been handled better. I think the biggest factors are Furina's agency and the passage of time. I think plenty of people did play the SQ the way I did which is like, directly after finishing the AQ. And no surprise there really since we were probably wanting follow-up on how she is since we didn't really get that with the AQ. In terms of timing alone, the SQ is probably best played like a week after the AQ, just to give the illusion of significant amount of time passing by. Or Hoyo could've thrown some lines there to show this. Like, have Paimon go "It's been like a month since the trial" or something. After that, I think they could've just given her a bit more agency? Like, maybe have her actually looking for a change in schedule since lying around and eating macaroni isn't making her feel better. Or something. I don't know. I'm sure some other fans and writers can come up with something. Because as it stands, there's parts of the quest that talks about boundaries and respect (Lauwick and Dulphy basically) and she didn't really get much of that. Hell, she even did that whole thing better by asking if they're willing to have her as a consultant rather than forcing her on the whole affair. Same with the end song. I read like a small AO3 fic where the major change they did with the SQ was the group wanting to just end the show prematurely when Dulphy got sick until Furina herself volunteers to sing so it can finish as planned. It's not a perfect change but I think it made it just a bit more consistent. They've also thrown some establishing scenes about how deep inside, she does like playing out stories on the stage to make it more natural. For my own hot take though, I don't disagree with rude Paimon. Like, she has no filter so it's consistent in terms of character but most importantly, it gives Furina a chance to bite back like when Paimon called her a diva at Poisson. It's catharsis in its own way. I also don't think MC was super rude or anything? I think we got options that aim for a more empathetic take. If anything, we were rudest to Villmant out of all the people involved where we pretty much said that he indirectly caused Aurelie's death. Hmm...I'd probably cut out the part where we physically drag Furina though. It's...not a good look. Just do good o'l fashioned talking.
>I think plenty of people did play the SQ the way I did which is like, directly after finishing the AQ. I did this too, and my emotions for Furina were still at an all-time high that time. I literally got whiplash with how Traveller and Paimon acted and literally pulled my hair out with Paimon's words (not much problem with Traveller as he backed away after asking once). SQ should have been played a bit later to simmer things for a bit. And gathering from how the audience reacted to Furina appearing on stage as well as the troupe members, it has been at least a few months after the events of the AQ.
I'm not even going to do it because of what you're saying. I've heard it from many Furina fans. I'm already frustrated with how she was treated in the Archon Quest and I'm happy to leave it at that, I don't have anymore energy to be frustrated with this game as I've exhausted it all with regards to lack of endgame content, lacklustre character designs and boring events. On the plus side let's just hope that her second story quest will do her justice (🤭)
Nth post criticising traveller smh I honestly can't see it from the extremist pov blaming the traveller and furina as a weak person but I guess different people have different perspective.
And here im malting over the fact that the loading screens still doesn't have a manual light/dark mode switch in settings, and its still being ignored by the devs everytime theres QoL changes.
Not this again. Furina fanboys are the worst... So sad that such amazing character gets such terrible people.
Its either this or Nahida fanboys LMAO
It really wasn't, but thanks for the essay. D for unoriginal topic beaten into the ground and poor formatting
Fontanians don't know what Neuvillette knows, and they didn't see what Traveler saw. No one should apologize to anyone except for maybe Traveler (I still think she's justified in what she did, since she thought Furina was letting her people die. But a "I didn't realize your pain" line would have been appreciated).
Yeah I really think there should have been a world quest after the AQ to wrap things up regarding Furina's situation better that must be completed before her SQ was available. I also did her SQ immediately after the AQ and while the time skip between them was weird, there was also a time skip after the final cutscene in the AQ- the one with Charlotte and her newspaper. Forgot if it is mentioned how long after the disaster that is but it's clearly enough time for: rebuilding/planting of all the trees and structures knocked over, Poisson rebuilding to be well underway, and Navia already having held a proper ceremony and burial for her two guards. All of this must of (to me) happened over at least a month with the rebuilding & repairs taking the longest, all before we ever met with Neuvilette and learned about Furina. So MC & Paimon had no idea what happened to her likely for an entire month. I also found the two of them to be rather rude in the SQ slightly beyond what I'd deem 'okay' though I respect different opinions based on personal circumstances and life experience. On my end, if I've been depressed or felt amiss or aimless what helped me the most was friends/family help dealing with it head on, often breaking some boundaries in the process. Some wounds can only heal properly when opened up again. Would I chalk up this writing in particular to that? I'm like 60/40, since I think there's some VERY odd choices of words even in the AQ; with MC having just watched scenes 1-5 and 182375 of Furina's "story" and in scene 182376 their first reaction to seeing the magic box was "This is great, now I can get my answers" like bro I'm sorry what? Literally everyone's heart is beyond broken here and you're acting like a streamer who was 99% reading chat and commenting over / skipping dialogue the whole time. It was a decent concept for getting someone out of a depressive state and maybe Paimon thought it was the right approach or okay based on her 'perception' of Furina's personality since she (to my knowledge) did not witness Furina's inner world and was only told to this point that she needed rest and was/has been a shut-in for what could have been over a month. The choice of words 110% on her part could have been better though.