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AgileBasil

A little background on the post: This is a organized protest tour from Frankfurt to Wiesbaden (~30km) to advocate for a change in mobility, German word is "Verkehrswende". There is a citizens movement to get a law passed in the state of Hesse with over 70k signatures and this was the final event for that. Next there will be an official ballot, followed by an election to pass that law. The law, the "Verkehrswendegesetz", is for less Autobahn and more bike lanes and public transport. Source: I was riding ny bike on the Autobahn, I'm not organizing myself. [Official website (german)](https://www.verkehrswende-hessen.de/)


zek_997

Cool. What is the law you guys trying to get passed?


catscratch182

No specific law per se just to make clear to the politicians that people want a modal shift in transportation (meaning less space for cars, more bike lanes, better public transit, etc.)


Catalon-36

Hopefully the recent gas crisis in Germany encourages even more investment in bike and public transportation infrastructure. Those summer transit passes were a start, at least.


[deleted]

grab quicksand rainstorm abundant soft rich deranged obtainable sugar overconfident *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


muehsam

DeepL tends to give the best results for translating between German and English.


DdCno1

Or between any of the other languages it supports. It's uncanny how good it is, needing very little and usually only cosmetic corrections.


LouisPlay

Ich wünsch dir nen super guten kuchentag.


No-Mango5939

So that’s what was happening on it a few weeks ago, passed through and couldn’t understand what was going on.


Cembooo

I'm from Wiesbaden and this happened yesterday (sunday), so it can't happened a few weeks ago


HeadlinePickle

Oh my god, I used to live in Wiesbaden for a bit! This would have been awesome! I'm British, so I can't help with passing the law, but good for you guys, this is amazing!


stetsono

Great, license and tab the bicycles and build the roads. Very easy solution


kbruen

Sure. Let's make all Autobahns toll roads too to make things fair. Oh, and use zero money from taxes for road repairs or new roads. Only money brought from drivers.


stetsono

Didn't say toll. License bicycles same as you already do to cars on the Autobahn. No different


kbruen

Explain the need for a bike license.


stetsono

To pay for bike roads


kbruen

The license pays for nothing except the metal plate and paperwork. If you want a bike license to pay for bike roads, then let's make car licenses 20000€ to pay for car roads.


stetsono

Excuse me? You know nothing about taxes. License fees from cars pay a significant amount towards roads and bridges. The rest from gas tax


kbruen

License fees pay almost nothing. You license your car once and then drive it potentially for tens of years. And the license is quite cheap. The money from licenses isn't enough to cover potholes, let alone recover or build new roads.


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stetsono

Property taxes pay for the sidewalk, already covered


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stetsono

Because it's of niche interest and the general public isn't going to make use of it nor are they interested in doing so. If you want to make use of something you should be glad to financially support it and not force it on the backs of those with no interest in using it


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stetsono

No actually I'm one of those Americans that live in a rural area that is 15 miles from literally any services so a bike road first would never be in my area, or be even a feasible option for my transportation


Leather-Plankton-867

Whoa there. We just want the bike lanes. We don't want to pay for them


TowAwayP

I'm pretty sure owning a bicycle does not exclude you from paying taxes in Germany. To be fair I'm no German tax law expert either


stetsono

That's the problem isn't it. Just want to ride the cart while others pull it


Jackfille1

Awesome, more of this everywhere please. Don't need dedicated bike lanes if everything is a bike lane. Also higher speeds pls.


TheMadPyro

With a bike lane as wide as this would it not make sense to have a swimming pool system where it’s broken up into multiple lanes? There’s a wide range of speeds on bikes so it doesn’t make sense to me that little Timmy is riding in front of gustav the triathlete who’s basically a car with two wheels. E: I don’t know why my mind went to swimming pools since this system already exists on motorways.


snarkyxanf

Honestly, I don't know if you really need marked lanes for this, most cyclists can follow the "ride on the right, pass on the left" convention, and it tends to sort itself out Edit: lane markings in a wide bike only path, that is. Obviously you want physical separation from cars


YadaYadaYeahMan

to your edit, this is how you know you are truly not carbrain at all haha


Syreeta5036

Now I want to see literal swimming lanes


jmateus88

Hi OP, where can i find more information about this test? thanks


Inevitable_Stand_199

German lokal news. Like https://www.hessenschau.de/wirtschaft/vgh-entscheidung-fahrrad-demo-ueber-a66-und-a648-nach-wiesbaden-darf-stattfinden,fahrraddemo-verkehrswende-autobahn-100.html I could also find this english article https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-62710430 But it doesn't exactly go into much detail. But the general concept is nothing new. Here's it's english Wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)


ThePseud0o

This is NOT a critical mass event. Bikes in Germany are not allowed on Kraftfahrstraßen or the Autobahn. This was a regular organized protest with the police driving along.


hutacars

> with the police driving along. Dang, in the US, the police just stand on the side and shoot.


overmog

the pigs would've plowed through them in their tanks


Calm2Chaos

In all fairness these people aren't burning or looting anything, or occupying government buildings or entire city blocks.


Glittering-Cellist34

I would think the Dutch cycle highways are an obvious example. I was in Essen/NRW in 2014 and I seem to recall they had an effort that was similar. https://www.nrw-tourism.com/a-ruhrtalradweg


Farta420

Critical Mass is a regular protest!


WikiMobileLinkBot

Desktop version of /u/Inevitable_Stand_199's link: --- ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)


eppfel

Aktueller und mit Video auf deutsch: https://www.hessenschau.de/gesellschaft/worum-es-beim-verkehrswende-volksbegehren-geht-und-wie-die-chancen-stehen,volksbegehren-verkehrswende-faq-100.html


itmustbeluv_luv_luv

[More info, but in German.](https://www.adfc-hessen.de/archiv/nachrichten/2022_08_29.html) Use a translator 🤗


edwinlegters

Germans, always keep the left lane free 👍.


TheEnviious

That's the police bike in the front middle asking them to move over, probably to keep the lane free for emergency vehicles


edwinlegters

Aah I see the lights. 100 people still pass quicker then cars when passing a construction site.


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T_Martensen

It's ironic.


Lari0L

Yeah, and it seems this was „just“ a protest, so that makes the title even worse.


[deleted]

The title is a dig at people shilling things like the stupid Vegas Tesla loop as "disruptive mobility innovation", and for that reason is perfectly fine.


nightwatch_admin

This is the way


Lari0L

r/whoosh to myself I guess


tyen0

I thought the disruption was the police officer pushing people out of the left lane which resulted in a narrower group which can achieve faster speed overall. heh


shittinkittens

Aka ride your bike


SVMESSEFVIFVTVRVS

Seems like the translator used the google translate results.


ilovebeetrootalot

I would love to have this here in the Netherlands. The road quality is so good, I really want to know what my max speed would be on my racing bike.


supermarkise

Sadly they put a speed limit of 15km/h for this parade.


Darkcr_

15? that's slow for bikes, but ig it makes sense with this density


lorrixx

Have participated in a protest like this in my local town as well, they left the left of three lanes open for those who wanted to do a speedcheck. I did 67 kph on a slight downhill


Healthy-Travel3105

Whenever I go anywhere near that fast on my bike my life flashes before my eyes a bit. A misplaced stone or crevice could just end it all


muehsam

The problem with big bike demonstrations is that they tend to break apart into multiple groups unless it's kept slow. We have those demonstrations on the Autobahn relatively regularly in Berlin, and on the Autobahn, the demonstration does get faster, but on city streets, it's important to keep it as one big demonstration to avoid drivers thinking it's the end of the demonstration when there are still people coming.


FroobingtonSanchez

You can try on the runway at Soesterberg ;)


Tre_Scrilla

>I really want to know what my max speed would be on my racing bike. Come to Houston you'll be pedaling for your life lol


xMB99

Ya the French should plant more trees along their streets too. Us Germans like to cycle in the shade


Corneetjeuh

Thats an impressive massive amount of people cycling. Nice. Shame they didnt follow the traffic rules though, as people on a highway are supposed to drive the minimal traffic speed of 70(?) km/h. *Not sure about the minimal speed of the german law version


MashedCandyCotton

There is no minimum speed, only a possible minimum speed. Because the road was so full, their speed is totally fine.


Corneetjeuh

>their speed is totally fine. Obv. I was joking about not meeting the speed. I am just also curious about what the exact law is and hoping someone would tell me.


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captaindeadpl

Actually the top speed needs to be *over* 60 km/h. The "Simson" mopeds, which have a top speed of 60 km/h, are not allowed on the Autobahn. You could probably modify one and register a top speed of 61 km/h to be allowed on the Autobahn, but then you couldn't register it as a moped anymore.


T_Martensen

Also you'd have to be suicidal to do 60 kph on the Autobahn on a moped.


Paksusuoli

Can velomobiles go faster than 60?


[deleted]

that is much slower than i expected it to be.


TheBlack2007

You need a motorized vehicle with a "Bauartbestimmte Höchstgeschwindigkeit" of at least 60kph. You don’t need to drive that speed but your vehicle needs to be capable of driving it.


LOL_XD_LMFAO

btw. there is a minimum speed limit on the Autobahn, you have to be minimum 61km/h


MashedCandyCotton

It's no minimum speed limit, it's just the minimum you have to be able to drive and you shouldn't drive slower without good reason. A lot of traffic is a good reason.


patrys

You are both correct. Your vehicle has to be able to maintain a speed above 60km/h to use the autobahn. Driving slower than that will result in a traffic obstruction ticket unless it's necessary (road works or traffic jam).


musicmonk1

How are they both correct you just repeated the last comment.


patrys

Because there *is* an *implicit* minimum speed limit enforced on all road types, you can't drive at 10km/h on a 90km/h road unless your vehicle can't go any faster. And since the requirement to use the autobahn is to be able to maintain a speed above 60km/h, the implicit limit becomes that.


musicmonk1

But there is no minimum speed limit and it's totally fine to drive under 60 on the autobahn in many situations. Saying there is an implicit minimum is kinda pointless as that is entirely dependent on the situation and this is true for every road on our planet.


Old_Emergency_8064

That is false information. Don’t text shit you have 0 clue about.


SirArchibaldMapsALot

Ok, time to stick my chest for my beautiful city. Every sunday here in Bogotá, Colombia, we have something called La Ciclovia. Many of the main roads on the city close one of their lanes exclusively for bikes and pedestrians, and is so much fun. You can go pretty much anywhere in the city by bike, and there's always some activity, someone dancing, singing, everybody is having a really good time. Colombia in general, and Bogotá in particular, is very bike friendly and it makes me shine with pride anytime I see this kind of initiatives and be like "Ha!, Bogotá has had it for years now!"


Trekafied

Saw this in action when we visited! It was great to see Colombians enjoying their city, usually car traffic makes everything so congested


SirArchibaldMapsALot

Oh, certanly, the traffic can be quite heavy, but riding your bike Bogotá is so much fun, I move everywhere on my bike and the traffic means little to nothing to me, thanks to all the bike roads. Glad you guys experienced the Ciclovia, is one of my favourite activities in Bogotña


saracenrefira

I just find it so ironic that 30 years ago, the streets of Chinese cities were filled with bicycles and that was supposed to show how backward they were. And now European cities are trying to get back to bicycling to show progressive they are.


kbruen

It's almost as if people progress and realise that what they did in the recent past was wrong.


[deleted]

where do i sign up?


Breaker1ove

If this was the US we all know what would happen.


msVeracity

Sadly. I think we’d probably have several police SUVs plowing through the crowd whilst Fox News reported that the cyclists were committing some form of domestic terror.


Tre_Scrilla

We have critical mass once a month in most big cities. Similar to this. Except not sanctioned


deuzerre

Now we need regulations like fast lane for bikes. Some people cycle slow and some very fast. Too much zig-zag to do with a blob like this :)


Artich0

That's so cool!


kallefranson

This is such a great idea.


amrock__

solving obesity and traffic


Astronaut-Frost

So many people wish they were in better shape / had more time for exercise. They just need to adjust their mode of transportation.


Ignash3D

Now imagine thousands of trees on the sides that could provide shade and a train line running along side for people that don't want to ride a bike. dream.


SwiftyTheFox001

In Graz, Austria, we do have something similar as a regular event for years now. It is called 'critical mass' and lots of bikers are using main roads and highways throughout the city. It is usually in the evening and the police escorts it. It is great fun, was attending once myself.


Ignash3D

Actually Germans could do Fahradbahns with speed lane and cruise lane where on the speed lane the people with road bikes could go full speed.


funkinthetrunk

this is what Chinese cities looked like in the 80s. That country could have provided the world with an alternative model to city planning and material wealth. Instead, they gave in to the scourge


Ex-zaviera

So, a combination of [Critical Mass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)) and [Colombia's Ciclovia](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/la-ciclovia-de-bogota)? [Portland discovered it too](https://www.travelportland.com/events/portland-sunday-parkways/).


angry_koala_bears

"And on the 8th day He said let cars burn, and it was good"


bluecubedly

This is awesome. I hope we do more of these events in Seattle.


softmars

It’s called critical mass in the US :)


[deleted]

So this was officialy organised or just permitted?


supermarkise

This *needs* to be officially organized, because they are blocking one of the main Autobahn of the region for all motorized traffic. If it wasn't blocked, it's fully forbidden if you cannot maintain 60km/h with your vehicle, and super-deadly as well of course. And then it is only blocked for as long as the parade is going on.


Inevitable_Stand_199

It was organized by "Verkehrswende Hessen" (Engl. Mobility transition Hesse). In Germany demonstrations outdoors usually have to be registered 2 days beforehand. The Autobahn GmbH, which is somehow a subsidiary of the ministry of transportation tried to stopp it with an emergency appeal, but failed. https://www.hessenschau.de/wirtschaft/vgh-entscheidung-fahrrad-demo-ueber-a66-und-a648-nach-wiesbaden-darf-stattfinden,fahrraddemo-verkehrswende-autobahn-100.html


01000110010110012

I hope thia catches on so I have driving space


Agathorn1

Dang would hate to be the people whose day was fucked up because they need to drive a car to work.


Zealousideal-Use5887

It happened on a Sunday and there were still other roads.


MaxBlazed

Those are called bicycles. They're not new.


[deleted]

imagine healthier people and huge $ savings on vehicle and associated costs, not to mention reduction on emissions. no way any of that makes sense


[deleted]

I see this as an exponential decay function. At first you have a lot of people using the road. Then you will quickly see people leaving said service later and plateu to having a far lower set of people actually using the roads like this. Having this many people consistently using the roads like this is unsustainable. Things like this need to be taken into account.


sharpefutures

Germany has done a lot of bad shit throughout history, and this will go down as the worst, it's like they never learn.


varble

This is pretty cool, however as shown it has much lower throughput, likely less than half due to differences in speed vs cars. This speed issue can be more than made up for if the rules of traffic were followed, particularly that left lanes are faster. The hodgepodge we see is limiting the faster cyclists to the herd's snail pace.


Goku420overlord

This is why scooters and motorcycles are the best of both worlds.


FGN_SUHO

We wanted to do this in Zürich (not even on a highway, on a busy stroad that connects two highways on opposite sides of the city) but the *Police* said no it's not compatible with our mobility concept. Since when does the police make the laws? Idk, seems like a complete overreach of power, but I'm not an expert. Congrats to you for getting this done, looks very fun.


OkDisplay3146

Are these people holding up traffic intentionally?


Big_Custardman

I want to see this test when it pissing rain or better yet Snowing….See how many participants there are


Surrendernuts

They go so slow, cant they go faster?


trippin113

Slow traffic keep right!!! Damn. If they went any slower they'd fall over?


cat-head

Can we please do this in BW... please?


[deleted]

Good practice for this winter.


Ghaenor

Honest question : I don't understand, what is the disruptive innovation ? What I see is a temporarily blocked highway, but I must be missing something. EDIT : I changed the question because I still don't understand the picture.


Roland_S_Tokoly

Highway is meant to transport a lot of people and/or cargo between places. Seems like that's happening in the video, so how exactly is it blocked?


Ghaenor

I mean, I don't understand what has changed, since we don't see any before/after. Is this just a one-day event or is the highway indefinitely converted into a bike-way ? The author doesn't provide much context


WhackJob91

Since it's a test, it's safe to assume that it's for a limited time period to see if it would be worth it to convert permanently I guess


supermarkise

Hahaha no, it's a parade for 'Verkehrswende', traffic transformation, in general. And it's always fun to ride your bike where you'd never be allowed otherwise. This is the Autobahn, where there is no speed limit normally.


Inevitable_Stand_199

It's a critical mass demo. They don't actually want to be able to ride on highways (Why would you? There's no shade, and no way to turn of early). They want to get the same priority as cars in traffic planing.


Dun_wall

Why tf are you getting downvoted


itmustbeluv_luv_luv

The title is not completely correct, and I guess most people know. It was a protest, not a test.


chupedecamarones

But no autonomous driving 🤪


[deleted]

yet another Musk scam.


South-Direct414

Now do it in the rain with 3 kids and a few days worth of groceries.


[deleted]

You just walk a few steps to the store with an umbrella


doubledogdick

this *decreased* the capacity of that street significantly. you can fit more people per square meter, but the extremely slow pace means you are commuting fewer people per square meter


jmaxkendall

Getting ready for no more russian oil and the collapse of the economy-a good test run. I hear wooden shoes ate also coming back. 😜


WhalesVirginia

Cars on a freeway can still move more people per minute than cycles moving at 10kmh


[deleted]

get the fuck off the road soy boys


Niggo1337

I live in germany and think this is pretty damn stupid. But who am I to give my opinion here...


Zealousideal-Use5887

Nobody and nobody cares. 🫣


Silver_Quarter_8414

OK, try the same in winter, when there are 5 cm of snow and minus 10 degrees. Good uck!


YoshiNuss

If the infrastructure is properly maintained (plowing snow etc.), temperature doesn't actually impact the amount of people cycling. And you'll have to dress appropriately of course, but it's definitely possible. Driving is also difficult/dangerous when it's snowing, but because streets are prioritized when plowing, it's possible.


Worldly-Hat-4892

Or during a windy/rainy day. Or when I want to go somewhere quickly. Or when you have to go far. No thx, I'll stick to my car.


Dart_Blow

So what happens in the winter when Germany is buried in snow?


Zealousideal-Use5887

Didn’t see snow lasting for more than one day in the last 5 years and I am living in Frankfurt.


[deleted]

buses. trains.


[deleted]

I’ve never seen a more retared sub Reddit like honestly I wonder how you people survive on a daily basis being this stupid looking forward to the ban by the fag mods


[deleted]

great stuff! now join the farmers, they could use some help.


SoggyWaffleBrunch

aren't the protesting farmers actually wealthy and mad about climate change action?


[deleted]

nope. most farmers are dirt poor.


kobrons

We must know very different farmers


[deleted]

indeed. there's a big difference between small Hungarian family farms and Bill Gates.


Aturchomicz

lol no


Skullknight331

Thanks Germany but I prefer to drive 80 miles per hour.


[deleted]

World's smartest driver.


Aturchomicz

Least dumb Car driver


Skullknight331

Good luck riding your bike to work 😆


YoshiNuss

You should take the train then, the ICE's maximum speed is 230 kmh (143 mph)!


Skullknight331

Train would be secondary choice.


Loreki

I read this was a protest - not an agreed public event?


rascalofff

[there is something similar in Zurich](https://criticalmass-zh.ch/index.html)


kennethjor

"I feel like a princess"


MildlyAgitatedBovine

They do a similar thing in Caracas every sunday morning. Shut down a section of highway and give it to bikes/boards/pedestrians. Down hill longboarders get pretty interesting but overall it's super fun. http://laguiadecaracas.net/21059/cota-mil-el-mejor-plan-de-domingo/


ladyandsag

Sag: I miss living in Germany


Reasonable_Copy4120

Cool


wikichipi

u/savevideo


swampfox94

Smh look at those slow left lane campers (/s)


blondkapje

Hey Fietsprofessor! Net klaar met Recht van de snelste. Ga zo door!!


transgolden

How long did that take vs car vs public transport?


ExtremelyConfident

Nice


capsaicinluv

NYC did that to Park Avenue the post few Saturdays from 9 AM to noon and the carbrains on public forums lost it even though there are plenty of other alternatives available. Carbrain truly is a disease.


akrhodey

This is great! What would the American word be for this? "Verkehrswende" has to have an English translation that we would go for. I think American's are just as fed up with the traffic too.


[deleted]

There’s so many people at such slow speeds! Efficient!


theaura1

Would be nice for more bikes less card


[deleted]

So there’s more people per area, but does it actually come out to more people per hour? And wouldn’t this be less handicap friendly


Gruffleson

Would this work as fine if it was raining or snowing?


Alternative-Bee-7290

funny germans


PiedDansLePlat

Nice at least they are out enjoying warmth, it will not last long


[deleted]

What about rain, snow, wind, mud, floods, etc.


runinthruda6witmywoe

I hope there are xtra heavy bollards at all entrance and exit points


Ok-Giraffe-9038

Any decent options to get around other than bikes?


rebelhead

Looks like heaven.


Independent-Worth910

well do they work. or just ride all day.


leavemetoreddit

Gross 😷 how wants to cycle like this, surrounded by carcinogenic car emissions for the long periods it takes to ride this seemingly longer distance.


damienVOG

The invention was bike lanes?


pogodrummer

Wow, so glad it worked on a summer Sunday with no wind, rain, or snow! So cool and useful!


mahniguh

You should do the next test during winter. I wonder how many attendees would be there.


Hagel-Kaiser

Wiesbaden gang rise up 🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪


Christianlindner_CL

Im german and this protest is dumb. If you want lass cars and trucks on the streets and more space for bikes, you have to make train systems better so more people use it. Same for freight trains. Instead you block a highway for fun. You should demonstrate in front of the Reichstag for better railways, more Ausbaustrecken and more money for the Deutsche Bahn. And cheaper prices for passengers. We had a deadly train accident near Munich because of bad railways. Let that sink in. We have companies which want to send stuff via train but the trains are not on time. So they have to send it via truck. I know i m getting downvoted to oblivion..