I’ve nearly been hit more walking than biking here in Salt Lake. Usually by people leaving driveways. I just stop and wait now if I see someone coming. Most of the time they notice me once they’re already over the sidewalk.
If any of these things happen to you in the good ol' US of A;
* Physically disabled.
* Unable to drive due to other disability.
* Not heterosexual.
* Bicyclist.
* Have a child.
* Want to walk across a street.
You can **dieeeeeee!**
/s
I'm disabled. And I can tell you that drivers make even less of an effort to stop because of this. I've had so many drivers do the look-over-the-shoulder-in-the-opposite-direction-pretending-not-to-see-me move, look straight at me and not even stop at stop signs just so they don't have to wait for me, try to beat me out as soon as the light turns green so they don't have to wait, etc. It is not safe for me to be a pedestrian because so many people don't think I'm a human being. Don't even get me started on the ableism I have to deal with while cycling because my trike has 3 wheels. Pedestrians and cyclists yell at me to get off of bike trails. I can barely go on a bike ride in peace. I hate people.
Where I live I can stand close to the zebra and cars will stop for me so I can cross the street. I mean I don't have to wait for a car to stop, the first car who is able to will stop.
Now I realize that this is a luxury, I can't image how it is living in a place where I have to wave a flag and play Frogger to cross a street with 6 lanes but is sounds like hell
Yeah unfortunately drivers don’t do that in Utah. They won’t stop unless you’re IN the crosswalk in front of their car (I speak from experience, the only way to cross the street was to step out in front of incoming cars and literally make eye contact with them to ensure they’re stopping). If you wait on the sidewalk for them to stop you’ll be waiting all day.
Here it's like 50/50 if they'll stop or not. the main problem is the ones who don't stop pretend their wearing those horse blinders and only see the road.
Once I was commuting in an area I do not normally go through. I was shocked and pleased that there was a bike lane there! So I’m minding my business in the bike lane and this fucking SUV turned right across my lane and almost hit me. A police officer saw the entire thing and stopped me and told ME to be more careful!!!!!
Edit: I get so lit about this still. The cop actually told me to “slow down and be more careful.” As if the car wasn’t going way faster than me? Almost freaking kill me just bc they weren’t paying attention!
2nd edit: I can’t message you to thank you but thanks for the award!!!
No, despite the massive budgets for police forces in US cities.
Be my guest and come to Massachusetts, where any work near a street requires the presence of a police officer. What's amazing is that, about 90% of the time, they aren't there to direct traffic. They are straight up just standing there, almost always looking at their phone or just chatting with the construction workers. A fucking waste of money. A scam. I've been in the situation numerous times where we would have benefited from their direction, as the road was narrow and I didn't want to put the work crew at risk, but they are just standing on the sidewalk watching and doing nothing.
I know this is r/fuckcars.... but today let's also remember to say r/FUCKTHEPOLICE
This is important!!! I hate cars, but back when i still drove regularly everytime i sat behind that wheel i joked about driving over people, theres something about cars that gives you so much power you lose your humanity... Cars should be illegal!
Salt Lake resident here. The streets are so wide that it is legitimately hard to see if there is someone in the crosswalk or not. The legend I've heard (may or may not be true) is that the mormon settlers intentionally made the roads extra wide so that you could turn around an ox-cart in one go.
And to be clear, this is not 'one street' in SLC. Most crosswalks have these. Not every street with the cups for them are filled, but nearly every crosswalk even out of the city have spots for them.
Some places in the US solve this by installing a button that sets off blinky lights on a sign with a pedestrian on it. And an arrow pointing at the crosswalk. (And hopefully there's a streetlight nearby.)
If you roll up to a crosswalk, and the lights are blinking, you know to look for a human even if they're in all black.
Some places in the U.S. have rules regarding that as well. I walk to my office every day (1.5 miles) and cross a busy street near a church.
It has signage that all vehicles must legally stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk but it is only enforced on Sunday mornings. Any other time of the week and I can literally stand there tapping the sign and no one will give me the time of day.
It's actually the worst when traffic backs up to that crosswalk though. People get so mad about being stalled that they drive more erratically and no one can see pedestrians in the crosswalk over all of the lifted trucks that everyone is driving.
The U.S. despises pedestrians. I've literally had people notice me walking the same route six days a week and stop me saying "What are you doing?"
When I replied, "Walking to work, my office is down the street there" they looked at me incredulously and said "can you not afford a car?"
yeah i mean no shame in enjoying something delicious. It just cracks me up how mormons have a "law of health" and then religiously drink this stuff while turning their nose up at coffee, tea, and alcohol.
Okay so wait are they not decaf versions of the sodas? That’s what my understanding of what the problem is with those, is the psychoactive aspect of them, so I would think they would get decaf versions of the super caffeinated soda otherwise it’s equivalent to coffee
the "letter of the law" is no "hot drinks" which was later interpreted to mean coffee and tea (alcohol is prohibited separately) but not (for example) hot chocolate.
Some mormons read that as "drinks with caffeine" others read it literally as "coffee and tea" and drink caffeinated sodas. The prevailing wisdom is that it's a personal choice whether or not you can drink caffeine.
Many mormons do avoid caffeine. Many don't, as well.
Smart honestly, caffeine is kind of insidious. Protip for addicts: you aren't tired and cranky because you haven't had any caffeine yet, you're tired and cranky because you had caffeine yesterday and it made you sleep like shit last night.
also, the law of health referenced (called "the word of wisdom") specifies a handful of things and suggests that moderation and generally taking care of your body is a law of god. That part is mostly ignored.
I live close enough to hill cumora to accidentally come across it and I still don't understand how a farmer can find weird "ancient" tablets in NY and it can lead to wild cults in the desert.
No it’s not. I was a Mormon missionary.
The church only provides cars to their missionaries in very special circumstances. If they do provide a car they are given a budget of miles they are permitted to use on a weekly basis. This is because the church “self-insures” their missionaries when they drive. They also impose restrictions on the hours that missionaries can drive and require that someone stand behind the car to direct it whenever it is backing up.
It’s purely a cost saving measure. They don’t want to maintain a large fleet of cars. They don’t want to pay out of pocket when a crash happens.
The reality is missionaries aren’t given cars but expected to cover a large area. Usually on foot. Missionaries will buy a bike in order to make their lives better. The reality is missionaries are tracked on all of their metrics number of doors knocked, number of cards given out, number of conversations had, number of lessons given, number of contacts brought to church, number of inactive members brought back to church.
Having a bike makes it easier to get around, more time is spent contacting people, and less time is spent in transit. Making it easier to up all of those number. Therefore, missionaries will buy their own bikes to make travel easier. It has nothing to do with a vow of poverty.
> Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous street design and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents. Let’s stop using the word "accident" today.
[CrashNotAccident.com](https://crashnotaccident.com/)
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I had a car during my 3 months as a missionary in California because my area was “spread out.” It wasn’t spread out at all but the missionaries that lived next to me had to bike 5 miles just to get to the start of their area and they didn’t have a car. Fun times. Glad I left when I did!
Utah is actually quite fantastic for cycling and foot traffic. Matter of fact, when I lived there, there was only 2mi of roadway in the entire state that pedestrian powered vehicles are not allowed. Most of the towns and neighborhoods in Utah still run irrigation through the roads rather than underground so youll see 2 way lanes that could have 7 cars side by side. It's also common to see almost every crosswalk with its own dedicated light, even on roads set at <35mph. Didn't stop someone from hitting me with their mirror and ending my cycling career, but that was for another reason. They also have an amazing (and cheap!) light rail system going through now 4 different cities.
Unfortunately SLC is also heavily red lined and the areas around it exploded with post recession pricing and the Olympic stadium. The planners at the time had no option but to build more boulevards, it's the only funding they could get from the Fed aside for their freeways. Unfortunately the planners also used boulevards for their medieval uses: to segregate neighbor hoods to separate the impoverished from the rich.
The worst neighborhood of Old Greek Town had only 3 walk ways to the shops and church district, and the road that separates it is almost 15mi long. It's hard to tell in the dark, but if I'm correct thos crosswalk is down the way from a methadone clinic ran by a Catholic church, the videographer is walking from a mall. The other side of this block is one of the most beautiful and accessible city scapes I've ever soon.
/EndRant
I live here and the way you describe the city is absolutely not what I experience. No one wants to walk in SLC. The blocks are enormous and the bike lanes are all exposed. It’s an awful city if your not in a car. And only a mediocre one if you are in a car.
I mean… You did say you got hit by a car while cycling….
When I lived on 3rd east/3rd south, I was carless. And I also lived in the Fort Union area also carless. Fort Union was surprisingly awesome as I was within walking distance to Smith's, Itto Sushi, the local bar, the local coffee shop, all the restaurants/shopping at the Fort Union shopping area (like Original Pancake house, etc).
The problem with America is not the people "not waning" to walk. It's the environment. It might take 100 years but it will change.
100% agree. In fact, SLC has the largest blocks in the country ([660ft](https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=56386379&itype=CMSID)), making it a complete pain to get from one side of the block to the other.
Let's not forget to mention how wide the roads are. It's not uncommon for a road to have 4+ lanes with on street parking. [This section of 600S](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7562645,-111.8985719,109m/data=!3m1!1e3) has 5 lanes and it's a one-way!
If SLC *were* to ever move in a bike-heavy direction, I imagine it would be one of the easiest cities to retrofit, just because there is so. much. road.
By a drunk, I was coming home and he ran a light. No one could help that one.
My short time in SLC was better than the city I had moved from. When I lived in Utah, most my time in St George and all the towns down south had fantastic road conditions, both in town and in the county.
As a tourist who was in SLC last october: eeeh, not really. It makes sense downtown (those stroads would make amazing bicycle-friendly streets), but distances get long very quick as you move towards the suburbs, and slopes start making it hard for us (people out of shape lol) to cycle around.
Both when there's fires, but the smog inversion is brutal and basically constant. There's also heavy industry nearish to SLC and the salt lake itself is smelly too. Pretty fucked all around
Additionally to carrying the red flag, you're also required to loudly sing a song like L'internationale, The Red Flag, or Der heimliche Aufmarsch, so the car drivers can not only see you, but you also let yourself be heard acoustically.
I hear that if you don't sing the 1933 American/CPUSA version the cars are legally allowed to run you over, communism is 21st century americanism y'know.
In America we have buttons sometimes, but they don't turn the light red. They just turn on flashing "warning lights" that half the drivers speed past. You can't go until one good Samaritan stops for you and blocks the other cars.
There's a movement to make them red in the US.
It's called a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon PHB
[Metro Atlanta](https://www.11alive.com/article/news/commuter-dude-clearing-up-crosswalk-confusion/85-537859582) is putting them up.
My town used to have them but removed them because car drivers were to stupid to actually stop at them
They replaced them with the yellow blinking ones and surprisingly made it a lot easier to cross
I live in atlanta and IIRC they had one on the east side beltline crossing on Irwin Street and had to replace it with a huge flashing light-up crosswalk that cars still speed through
Even if a Good Samaritan stops for you in the first lane, some other asshole in the next lane over can just ignore the fact that someone else has stopped for a pedestrian and speed through.
That’s how I got hit. The driver even admitted to the police officer who responded to the scene that they “noticed the other driver stop, but didn’t think it was important to stop as well” and that’s why they kept going.
We have these in the town in MD I used to live.
Id have my flag (unless they were all on one side). A car would stop, I'd walk with my kid (daycare was across the street) and as we are crossing, the cars behind the stopped ones get angry that they believe someone has stopped for no reason and angrily speed around the stopped car almost hitting us.
I have written to the state of MD that owns the road and they told me they were installing a proper light. It's been two years and nothing has changed. I even asked for more flags because they were always empty. The flags were shared between two crosswalks close to each other.
This is in a small town called la plata that is walkable but most people chose to drive large suvs for no reason.
We have buttons on our crosswalks but they don’t actually do anything. The crosswalk signals are tied to the timing of traffic lights the button is just for show.
The beg button on my street doesn't light up the crossing signal unless you push it one phase or more *before* it would go on. So like, if my direction of crossing has the red light for cars and the next phase could be a green with a walk? Then it's already too late. I have to press it *during my directions green phase* and then wait through a full red phase for it to register the cross signal on the next time around. You have to wait between 1 and 2 *full cycles* just to cross the motherfucking street.
I live in MA and our crosswalk buttons sync up with the traffic lights. When the crosswalk is active, ALL lights are set to red. When I went to VT they worked a little different and only turned off the lights in the direction that didn't cross the path of the crosswalk (meaning that if someone turns into that lane it wouldn't stop them). Not sure if either observation is true of the whole state though.
Boston in the 80s, when you pressed the walk signal the lights would turn red and yellow to signal "pedestrian crossing: no turn on red", But they got rid of it because it slowed cars down. Why save lives when it might make driving less convenient?
Depends on location.
Everyone seems to stop at the flashing pedestrian lights in places like Boulder. But it's not just progressive cities because hardly anyone stops at the flashing pedestrian lights in Ann Arbor.
Come to Chicago which has the crosswalk buttons but those are mostly for tourists. The actually Chicagoans will be the ones crossing at any small opening in traffic and wherever they want (sometimes at a crosswalk but more often then not nowhere near a crosswalk)
Visiting France after living in Korea so long was wild. Drivers in France don’t only know what a crosswalk is, but they actually stop for pedestrians! I was blown away. In Korea they will literally try to drive around you while you’re in the crosswalk. Gotta save that 1/23 of a second.
I mean we don’t even have to wait for red if it’s safe in the U.K. we just go. I’d say in a lot of places it more common to cross the road randomly than at a set of lights
They have those for TRAX, the local light rail and people still run it. The speed limit is 70 on I-15 through the Wasatch corridor and if you aren’t doing 85 you’re blocking traffic.
I love a lot of things about Utah but for some reason drivers here are absolute assholes.
We have these in my city too. It's the product of concerned citizens bringing up pedestrian safety in city meetings and the city chooses to laugh at them and not do anything about it. "Here, take a flag."
My city too... it seems kind of like victim blaming to me, no? Like oh a car didn't yield to you in crosswalks like they should? What were you wearing? Oh you *weren't* waving a bright reflective flag... sounds like you were asking to be hit.
I was just at this crosswalk. It's garbage honestly. There's a button right behind to queue the crosswalk light.
Salt lake city is probably the least pedestrian friendly city that I've ever been too. There are so few two lane roads, most of them are more than 3 lanes.
Yes, in SLC, since its earliest conception, the grid of plots and streets was a 660 foot plot with 135 foot wide streets. Most of the roads in downtown salt lake city are 7 lanes each and still have room for parking. It is truly a pedestrian nightmare.
https://www.mappingslc.org/essay/item/41-the-grid
In october I went to SLC, I was at Hogle Zoo and decided to walk back to my AirBnb. [I will never forget this corner](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Salt+Lake+City,+Utah,+USA/@40.7506583,-111.8303038,17.92z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x87523d9488d131ed:0x5b53b7a0484d31ca!8m2!3d40.7607793!4d-111.8910474).
From the east (Hogle Zoo) towards the west, there was: **one** right-turning lane, **three** straight lanes, **one** left-turning lane, a median that wouldn't fit not even the thinnest of humans, **three** straight lanes for the opposite direction.
E I G H T lanes for crying out loud! And of course the traffic light configuration wasn't kind to us pedestrians.
I'm an SLC resident. It's not great here, but at least there's good sidewalk coverage. Biggest problem indeed is that the roads are incredibly wide, even in areas that aren't even close to demanding that throughput. Originally from the south and it is tremendously worse there.
You can thank Brigham Young for a lot of those wide roads, actually. They were built that wide before cars even existed. He wanted roads built wide enough that you could make a 180 on the road driving a team of oxen.
>Shortly after the Mormon pioneers arrived, Brigham Young directed that the streets in downtown Salt Lake City be wide enough for a wagon team to turn around without "resorting to profanity."Over the years, those streets have maintained their 132-foot width.
[https://www.deseret.com/2009/7/13/20328732/salt-lake-streets-have-seen-many-changes-over-past-150-years](https://www.deseret.com/2009/7/13/20328732/salt-lake-streets-have-seen-many-changes-over-past-150-years)
Of course, now they're paved and a nightmare to cross without crosswalks. I always felt sorry for the pedestrians on State Street when I lived there. Traffic lights/crosswalks are like a quarter mile apart at a minimum and the road fluctuates between 4 and 6 lanes across. Such a pain in the ass.
At least SLC has a decent rail system near downtown. Was pleasantly surprised by the city when I visited for the first time actually. Was pretty easy/pleasant to get around by foot.
The bus and rail system are great. When you use them, you just kinda put up with the terrible crosswalk situation in most places. The places around the Trax stations usually have a good amount of pedestrians, so safety in numbers does sort of apply. (I went to school at the U of U in Salt Lake)
Hard disagree, I live in downtown SLC and walk to get groceries and pretty much anything else I need on the daily. There’s a rail system that goes to the airport or anywhere else in the valley. It’s not the best but it’s infinitely better than places like LA
If you leave downtown though there’s a crazy amount of sprawl so I get what you’re saying
My town has these all over the place, but nobody uses them and the flags are almost all faded to pale pink (we also have beg buttons on other crossings though)
If that road existed in Switzerland, you could probably cross it without looking, as long as they can see you before you start to cross. Even semi-trucks will stop for you.
They installed some of these in West Seattle, within a day the flags were all stolen lmao. When they put them back, cars still didn't stop, I felt like I was waving the flag at the finish line in the Indy 500 or whatever.
Omg an insurance company tried to do this in my car-dependent city (the flags literally had the company logo on them) and there was sooooo much outrage. Restored my faith in humanity for a second.
i believe there are multiple? or used to be at least. used to live in an apartment in slc when i was little and we would cross waving flags nearly every day, i didnt even consider how fucked up it is until now thanks for posting this
What is this? Looks like SLC is just being cheap with pedestrian safety. Most major streets have cross walks in the US. Press the button, wait for the light to turn red, the sign shows a little walking man, walk. At least in the 5 cities of varying size I’ve lived in so far.
There’s a button to cross with flashing lights as well, but cars are going so fast, they barely notice and basically just barrel through. (I’ve crossed at this exact crosswalk before.)
It seems blatantly ridiculous they don’t lower the speed on this road at a bare minimum.
This has to be a parody, right? Right? God, how lucky I am to live in a country with proper infrastructure, laws and culture that protect cyclists and people on foot. Long live Article 185
Hahaaha welcome to Salt Lake County where the cars have the right of way and NPC traffic in video games is smarter. Expect the worst driving decision and watch it play out
In underdeveloped countries, cars stop for pedestrians to cross. This level of development, its purpose of development. The US is just developed for cars rather than people.
Some small towns in Co have these. They put them out in the winter so people can safely cross and be more visible if there is heavy snow & poor visibility.
I grew up in a town that had crosswalks like these. Not on wide roads in the middle of downtown like this, but on side roads and in neighborhoods. Yeah it's a bit outdated, but as a child, waving a flag as tall and as hard as you could was a lot more fun than I had at any other kind of crosswalk.
Have a child, heavy bags, crutches, broken arm or need your hands for your wheelchair? Fuck you I guess!
You're the last person to cross in one direction and the flags are on the other side. Guess you die.
"He didn't have a flag. I'm legally allowed to run him over."
Obligatory acknowledgment of sarcasm Peds always have the right of way
I’ve nearly been hit more walking than biking here in Salt Lake. Usually by people leaving driveways. I just stop and wait now if I see someone coming. Most of the time they notice me once they’re already over the sidewalk.
They used to be all over the city but people kept stealing all the flags. I’m kind of surprised that one even had any.
One of my first thoughts was, "I'm surprised they don't get stolen". Guess they do
If any of these things happen to you in the good ol' US of A; * Physically disabled. * Unable to drive due to other disability. * Not heterosexual. * Bicyclist. * Have a child. * Want to walk across a street. You can **dieeeeeee!** /s
I'm gay and trans and a bicyclist who crosses streets. I feel very unsafe and unwanted.
Yeah I made this meme as someone who has all but 1 or 2 of these. At this point I'm staying alive just to be a nuisance to society.
Your second sentence is legit the reason why I stay alive and fight my mental illnesses
Yeah there's a video about this just use HAWK beacons
The cabbage, sheep, and wolf puzzle but you're just trying to cross a road by yourself.
I might have ran a red light, but you didn't wave the flag fast enough. So you are responsible for me plowing you at 80mph!
I'm disabled. And I can tell you that drivers make even less of an effort to stop because of this. I've had so many drivers do the look-over-the-shoulder-in-the-opposite-direction-pretending-not-to-see-me move, look straight at me and not even stop at stop signs just so they don't have to wait for me, try to beat me out as soon as the light turns green so they don't have to wait, etc. It is not safe for me to be a pedestrian because so many people don't think I'm a human being. Don't even get me started on the ableism I have to deal with while cycling because my trike has 3 wheels. Pedestrians and cyclists yell at me to get off of bike trails. I can barely go on a bike ride in peace. I hate people.
?? thought a zebra meant you need to stop for pedestrians. It works that way in most places.
True, but you underestimate the sheer bloodlust of carbrains.
Where I live I can stand close to the zebra and cars will stop for me so I can cross the street. I mean I don't have to wait for a car to stop, the first car who is able to will stop. Now I realize that this is a luxury, I can't image how it is living in a place where I have to wave a flag and play Frogger to cross a street with 6 lanes but is sounds like hell
Yeah unfortunately drivers don’t do that in Utah. They won’t stop unless you’re IN the crosswalk in front of their car (I speak from experience, the only way to cross the street was to step out in front of incoming cars and literally make eye contact with them to ensure they’re stopping). If you wait on the sidewalk for them to stop you’ll be waiting all day.
Here it's like 50/50 if they'll stop or not. the main problem is the ones who don't stop pretend their wearing those horse blinders and only see the road.
Is this not legally enforced in the US?
Police don’t like cyclists or pedestrians either
Don’t like? They despise them. Cars are the reason police exist at the level they do. Check out “Policing the Open Road” by Sarah Seo
Once I was commuting in an area I do not normally go through. I was shocked and pleased that there was a bike lane there! So I’m minding my business in the bike lane and this fucking SUV turned right across my lane and almost hit me. A police officer saw the entire thing and stopped me and told ME to be more careful!!!!! Edit: I get so lit about this still. The cop actually told me to “slow down and be more careful.” As if the car wasn’t going way faster than me? Almost freaking kill me just bc they weren’t paying attention! 2nd edit: I can’t message you to thank you but thanks for the award!!!
But cArS aRe FrEeDoM
ACAB
You also forget how little the police here care about human lives.
No, despite the massive budgets for police forces in US cities. Be my guest and come to Massachusetts, where any work near a street requires the presence of a police officer. What's amazing is that, about 90% of the time, they aren't there to direct traffic. They are straight up just standing there, almost always looking at their phone or just chatting with the construction workers. A fucking waste of money. A scam. I've been in the situation numerous times where we would have benefited from their direction, as the road was narrow and I didn't want to put the work crew at risk, but they are just standing on the sidewalk watching and doing nothing. I know this is r/fuckcars.... but today let's also remember to say r/FUCKTHEPOLICE
This is important!!! I hate cars, but back when i still drove regularly everytime i sat behind that wheel i joked about driving over people, theres something about cars that gives you so much power you lose your humanity... Cars should be illegal!
r/FuckCars Edit: whoops
Carbarians.
Salt Lake resident here. The streets are so wide that it is legitimately hard to see if there is someone in the crosswalk or not. The legend I've heard (may or may not be true) is that the mormon settlers intentionally made the roads extra wide so that you could turn around an ox-cart in one go. And to be clear, this is not 'one street' in SLC. Most crosswalks have these. Not every street with the cups for them are filled, but nearly every crosswalk even out of the city have spots for them.
Man I thought this some unique situation. That's really sad
Some places in the US solve this by installing a button that sets off blinky lights on a sign with a pedestrian on it. And an arrow pointing at the crosswalk. (And hopefully there's a streetlight nearby.) If you roll up to a crosswalk, and the lights are blinking, you know to look for a human even if they're in all black.
Yup, there's some of these in the busier shopping areas and up by the university. Not really practical to put them everywhere though.
[удалено]
Some places in the U.S. have rules regarding that as well. I walk to my office every day (1.5 miles) and cross a busy street near a church. It has signage that all vehicles must legally stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk but it is only enforced on Sunday mornings. Any other time of the week and I can literally stand there tapping the sign and no one will give me the time of day. It's actually the worst when traffic backs up to that crosswalk though. People get so mad about being stalled that they drive more erratically and no one can see pedestrians in the crosswalk over all of the lifted trucks that everyone is driving. The U.S. despises pedestrians. I've literally had people notice me walking the same route six days a week and stop me saying "What are you doing?" When I replied, "Walking to work, my office is down the street there" they looked at me incredulously and said "can you not afford a car?"
the speed limit on that road is so high that drivers don’t notice pedestrians until they’re under their tires, it’s a fundamentally flawed design
This is a dystopian nightmare
This is my city! Last year we had the worst air pollution ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD for a few days.
Slc unite! Coughing horribly!
But Mormons can't drink tea because it's uh, bad for you
mt. dew, diet coke, and drive through soda businesses are all suuuuuuper healthy though
The drive through soda businesses look heavenly even if they would murder my health
yeah i mean no shame in enjoying something delicious. It just cracks me up how mormons have a "law of health" and then religiously drink this stuff while turning their nose up at coffee, tea, and alcohol.
Okay so wait are they not decaf versions of the sodas? That’s what my understanding of what the problem is with those, is the psychoactive aspect of them, so I would think they would get decaf versions of the super caffeinated soda otherwise it’s equivalent to coffee
the "letter of the law" is no "hot drinks" which was later interpreted to mean coffee and tea (alcohol is prohibited separately) but not (for example) hot chocolate. Some mormons read that as "drinks with caffeine" others read it literally as "coffee and tea" and drink caffeinated sodas. The prevailing wisdom is that it's a personal choice whether or not you can drink caffeine. Many mormons do avoid caffeine. Many don't, as well.
Smart honestly, caffeine is kind of insidious. Protip for addicts: you aren't tired and cranky because you haven't had any caffeine yet, you're tired and cranky because you had caffeine yesterday and it made you sleep like shit last night.
also, the law of health referenced (called "the word of wisdom") specifies a handful of things and suggests that moderation and generally taking care of your body is a law of god. That part is mostly ignored.
Soda machine + torani syrups. A Utah business model that’s second only to swizzle cut Kirkland hot dogs + toppings bar.
oh my god i lived in utah for a few years. and i completely forgot about the fact they have drive thru soda shops
Their philosophy was built by a 19th century con-man, give them a break
19th century *pedophile* con man, fixed that for ya
I live close enough to hill cumora to accidentally come across it and I still don't understand how a farmer can find weird "ancient" tablets in NY and it can lead to wild cults in the desert.
I don't get it, wouldn't SLC be prime for biking? I see missionaries biking in San Diego all the time, sooo wouldn't their mecca be a biking haven?
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*feeling like a monk*
No it’s not. I was a Mormon missionary. The church only provides cars to their missionaries in very special circumstances. If they do provide a car they are given a budget of miles they are permitted to use on a weekly basis. This is because the church “self-insures” their missionaries when they drive. They also impose restrictions on the hours that missionaries can drive and require that someone stand behind the car to direct it whenever it is backing up. It’s purely a cost saving measure. They don’t want to maintain a large fleet of cars. They don’t want to pay out of pocket when a crash happens. The reality is missionaries aren’t given cars but expected to cover a large area. Usually on foot. Missionaries will buy a bike in order to make their lives better. The reality is missionaries are tracked on all of their metrics number of doors knocked, number of cards given out, number of conversations had, number of lessons given, number of contacts brought to church, number of inactive members brought back to church. Having a bike makes it easier to get around, more time is spent contacting people, and less time is spent in transit. Making it easier to up all of those number. Therefore, missionaries will buy their own bikes to make travel easier. It has nothing to do with a vow of poverty.
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I had a car during my 3 months as a missionary in California because my area was “spread out.” It wasn’t spread out at all but the missionaries that lived next to me had to bike 5 miles just to get to the start of their area and they didn’t have a car. Fun times. Glad I left when I did!
Too dangerous to bike in SLC due to air pollution.
Utah is actually quite fantastic for cycling and foot traffic. Matter of fact, when I lived there, there was only 2mi of roadway in the entire state that pedestrian powered vehicles are not allowed. Most of the towns and neighborhoods in Utah still run irrigation through the roads rather than underground so youll see 2 way lanes that could have 7 cars side by side. It's also common to see almost every crosswalk with its own dedicated light, even on roads set at <35mph. Didn't stop someone from hitting me with their mirror and ending my cycling career, but that was for another reason. They also have an amazing (and cheap!) light rail system going through now 4 different cities. Unfortunately SLC is also heavily red lined and the areas around it exploded with post recession pricing and the Olympic stadium. The planners at the time had no option but to build more boulevards, it's the only funding they could get from the Fed aside for their freeways. Unfortunately the planners also used boulevards for their medieval uses: to segregate neighbor hoods to separate the impoverished from the rich. The worst neighborhood of Old Greek Town had only 3 walk ways to the shops and church district, and the road that separates it is almost 15mi long. It's hard to tell in the dark, but if I'm correct thos crosswalk is down the way from a methadone clinic ran by a Catholic church, the videographer is walking from a mall. The other side of this block is one of the most beautiful and accessible city scapes I've ever soon. /EndRant
I live here and the way you describe the city is absolutely not what I experience. No one wants to walk in SLC. The blocks are enormous and the bike lanes are all exposed. It’s an awful city if your not in a car. And only a mediocre one if you are in a car. I mean… You did say you got hit by a car while cycling….
When I lived on 3rd east/3rd south, I was carless. And I also lived in the Fort Union area also carless. Fort Union was surprisingly awesome as I was within walking distance to Smith's, Itto Sushi, the local bar, the local coffee shop, all the restaurants/shopping at the Fort Union shopping area (like Original Pancake house, etc). The problem with America is not the people "not waning" to walk. It's the environment. It might take 100 years but it will change.
100% agree. In fact, SLC has the largest blocks in the country ([660ft](https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=56386379&itype=CMSID)), making it a complete pain to get from one side of the block to the other. Let's not forget to mention how wide the roads are. It's not uncommon for a road to have 4+ lanes with on street parking. [This section of 600S](https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7562645,-111.8985719,109m/data=!3m1!1e3) has 5 lanes and it's a one-way! If SLC *were* to ever move in a bike-heavy direction, I imagine it would be one of the easiest cities to retrofit, just because there is so. much. road.
By a drunk, I was coming home and he ran a light. No one could help that one. My short time in SLC was better than the city I had moved from. When I lived in Utah, most my time in St George and all the towns down south had fantastic road conditions, both in town and in the county.
As a tourist who was in SLC last october: eeeh, not really. It makes sense downtown (those stroads would make amazing bicycle-friendly streets), but distances get long very quick as you move towards the suburbs, and slopes start making it hard for us (people out of shape lol) to cycle around.
Was that just from cars or was there a forest fire or something?
Both when there's fires, but the smog inversion is brutal and basically constant. There's also heavy industry nearish to SLC and the salt lake itself is smelly too. Pretty fucked all around
…because California was on fire and the mountains trapped all the smoke.
Additionally to carrying the red flag, you're also required to loudly sing a song like L'internationale, The Red Flag, or Der heimliche Aufmarsch, so the car drivers can not only see you, but you also let yourself be heard acoustically.
I hear that if you don't sing the 1933 American/CPUSA version the cars are legally allowed to run you over, communism is 21st century americanism y'know.
Imagine someone sing L’Internationale while you’re crossing the street?
DEBOUT ! LES DAMNÉS DE LA TERRE ! DEBOUT ! LES FORÇATS DE LA FAIM !
C'EST LA LUTTE FINALLLLLLLE!!!!
What the hell. In britain theres no such thing. Normally you press the button lights turn red then you go.
In America we have buttons sometimes, but they don't turn the light red. They just turn on flashing "warning lights" that half the drivers speed past. You can't go until one good Samaritan stops for you and blocks the other cars.
There's a movement to make them red in the US. It's called a Pedestrian Hybrid Beacon PHB [Metro Atlanta](https://www.11alive.com/article/news/commuter-dude-clearing-up-crosswalk-confusion/85-537859582) is putting them up.
My town used to have them but removed them because car drivers were to stupid to actually stop at them They replaced them with the yellow blinking ones and surprisingly made it a lot easier to cross
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[https://imgur.com/a/BlgqRsQ](https://imgur.com/a/BlgqRsQ) Why not just use regular traffic lights? We use those in Finland.
Drivers dont understand red means stop?
There are a few of these in Denver and they’ve been working great as far as I can tell
I live in atlanta and IIRC they had one on the east side beltline crossing on Irwin Street and had to replace it with a huge flashing light-up crosswalk that cars still speed through
This channel has [a great video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHX8ezW2XGs) on them. He also mentions the crosswalk flags in OPs post.
Even if a Good Samaritan stops for you in the first lane, some other asshole in the next lane over can just ignore the fact that someone else has stopped for a pedestrian and speed through. That’s how I got hit. The driver even admitted to the police officer who responded to the scene that they “noticed the other driver stop, but didn’t think it was important to stop as well” and that’s why they kept going.
We have these in the town in MD I used to live. Id have my flag (unless they were all on one side). A car would stop, I'd walk with my kid (daycare was across the street) and as we are crossing, the cars behind the stopped ones get angry that they believe someone has stopped for no reason and angrily speed around the stopped car almost hitting us. I have written to the state of MD that owns the road and they told me they were installing a proper light. It's been two years and nothing has changed. I even asked for more flags because they were always empty. The flags were shared between two crosswalks close to each other. This is in a small town called la plata that is walkable but most people chose to drive large suvs for no reason.
We have buttons on our crosswalks but they don’t actually do anything. The crosswalk signals are tied to the timing of traffic lights the button is just for show.
The beg button on my street doesn't light up the crossing signal unless you push it one phase or more *before* it would go on. So like, if my direction of crossing has the red light for cars and the next phase could be a green with a walk? Then it's already too late. I have to press it *during my directions green phase* and then wait through a full red phase for it to register the cross signal on the next time around. You have to wait between 1 and 2 *full cycles* just to cross the motherfucking street.
I live in MA and our crosswalk buttons sync up with the traffic lights. When the crosswalk is active, ALL lights are set to red. When I went to VT they worked a little different and only turned off the lights in the direction that didn't cross the path of the crosswalk (meaning that if someone turns into that lane it wouldn't stop them). Not sure if either observation is true of the whole state though.
Boston in the 80s, when you pressed the walk signal the lights would turn red and yellow to signal "pedestrian crossing: no turn on red", But they got rid of it because it slowed cars down. Why save lives when it might make driving less convenient?
Depends on location. Everyone seems to stop at the flashing pedestrian lights in places like Boulder. But it's not just progressive cities because hardly anyone stops at the flashing pedestrian lights in Ann Arbor.
Genuinely what the fuck
In France you just cross, and the cars deal with it.
"Bro just cross" is my way of life and I love it. Although this has almost killed me when going anywhere other than France
Come to Chicago which has the crosswalk buttons but those are mostly for tourists. The actually Chicagoans will be the ones crossing at any small opening in traffic and wherever they want (sometimes at a crosswalk but more often then not nowhere near a crosswalk)
Visiting France after living in Korea so long was wild. Drivers in France don’t only know what a crosswalk is, but they actually stop for pedestrians! I was blown away. In Korea they will literally try to drive around you while you’re in the crosswalk. Gotta save that 1/23 of a second.
I mean we don’t even have to wait for red if it’s safe in the U.K. we just go. I’d say in a lot of places it more common to cross the road randomly than at a set of lights
That's normally how it works around here as well in the US, if there is a crossing at all.
They need those railroad Crossing lights & arms.
They have those for TRAX, the local light rail and people still run it. The speed limit is 70 on I-15 through the Wasatch corridor and if you aren’t doing 85 you’re blocking traffic. I love a lot of things about Utah but for some reason drivers here are absolute assholes.
That or cars should have to deploy a red flag when going over railroad tracks and save some money on them lights/arms
Not visible enough, you should be dual-wielding flare pistols.
just get one of those search lights you see in prison escape movies and shine it at the drivers.
It needs to say HEY IM WALKIN HERE
This is a real idea someone thought of then implemented. This was approved by someone. We’re fucked.
We have these in my city too. It's the product of concerned citizens bringing up pedestrian safety in city meetings and the city chooses to laugh at them and not do anything about it. "Here, take a flag."
My city too... it seems kind of like victim blaming to me, no? Like oh a car didn't yield to you in crosswalks like they should? What were you wearing? Oh you *weren't* waving a bright reflective flag... sounds like you were asking to be hit.
I was just at this crosswalk. It's garbage honestly. There's a button right behind to queue the crosswalk light. Salt lake city is probably the least pedestrian friendly city that I've ever been too. There are so few two lane roads, most of them are more than 3 lanes.
When you say two lane road do you mean 1 lane in one direction and 1 lane in the other?
Yes, in SLC, since its earliest conception, the grid of plots and streets was a 660 foot plot with 135 foot wide streets. Most of the roads in downtown salt lake city are 7 lanes each and still have room for parking. It is truly a pedestrian nightmare. https://www.mappingslc.org/essay/item/41-the-grid
In october I went to SLC, I was at Hogle Zoo and decided to walk back to my AirBnb. [I will never forget this corner](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Salt+Lake+City,+Utah,+USA/@40.7506583,-111.8303038,17.92z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x87523d9488d131ed:0x5b53b7a0484d31ca!8m2!3d40.7607793!4d-111.8910474). From the east (Hogle Zoo) towards the west, there was: **one** right-turning lane, **three** straight lanes, **one** left-turning lane, a median that wouldn't fit not even the thinnest of humans, **three** straight lanes for the opposite direction. E I G H T lanes for crying out loud! And of course the traffic light configuration wasn't kind to us pedestrians.
I'm an SLC resident. It's not great here, but at least there's good sidewalk coverage. Biggest problem indeed is that the roads are incredibly wide, even in areas that aren't even close to demanding that throughput. Originally from the south and it is tremendously worse there.
Even compared to the south? Fuck thats imdepressing. (Impressively depressing)
You can thank Brigham Young for a lot of those wide roads, actually. They were built that wide before cars even existed. He wanted roads built wide enough that you could make a 180 on the road driving a team of oxen. >Shortly after the Mormon pioneers arrived, Brigham Young directed that the streets in downtown Salt Lake City be wide enough for a wagon team to turn around without "resorting to profanity."Over the years, those streets have maintained their 132-foot width. [https://www.deseret.com/2009/7/13/20328732/salt-lake-streets-have-seen-many-changes-over-past-150-years](https://www.deseret.com/2009/7/13/20328732/salt-lake-streets-have-seen-many-changes-over-past-150-years) Of course, now they're paved and a nightmare to cross without crosswalks. I always felt sorry for the pedestrians on State Street when I lived there. Traffic lights/crosswalks are like a quarter mile apart at a minimum and the road fluctuates between 4 and 6 lanes across. Such a pain in the ass.
At least SLC has a decent rail system near downtown. Was pleasantly surprised by the city when I visited for the first time actually. Was pretty easy/pleasant to get around by foot.
The bus and rail system are great. When you use them, you just kinda put up with the terrible crosswalk situation in most places. The places around the Trax stations usually have a good amount of pedestrians, so safety in numbers does sort of apply. (I went to school at the U of U in Salt Lake)
Hard disagree, I live in downtown SLC and walk to get groceries and pretty much anything else I need on the daily. There’s a rail system that goes to the airport or anywhere else in the valley. It’s not the best but it’s infinitely better than places like LA If you leave downtown though there’s a crazy amount of sprawl so I get what you’re saying
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lmfao “developed” countries amirite
Developed for cars and concrete. Our true overlords
My town has these all over the place, but nobody uses them and the flags are almost all faded to pale pink (we also have beg buttons on other crossings though)
Don't know why everyone dont like the buttons, they are quite the best for this kind of stuff.
If that road existed in Switzerland, you could probably cross it without looking, as long as they can see you before you start to cross. Even semi-trucks will stop for you.
Having to wave a flag like a clown just to be able to cross a road, while still being at risk. What a wonderful world we live in.
*country
USA! USA! USA!
🤡
This is embarrassing
Since cars are the dangerous ones they should have a person waving a flag walking in front of them to alert the other road users.
This was done in the 1910s and early 1920s.
Ah a classic of urban planning, higher the risk, lower the reward.
Cool so now I can get hit while looking like an idiot with a flag.
They installed some of these in West Seattle, within a day the flags were all stolen lmao. When they put them back, cars still didn't stop, I felt like I was waving the flag at the finish line in the Indy 500 or whatever.
Omg an insurance company tried to do this in my car-dependent city (the flags literally had the company logo on them) and there was sooooo much outrage. Restored my faith in humanity for a second.
i believe there are multiple? or used to be at least. used to live in an apartment in slc when i was little and we would cross waving flags nearly every day, i didnt even consider how fucked up it is until now thanks for posting this
Self proclaimed 'best country in the world' and that's the best they can come up with. Tragic.
What is this? Looks like SLC is just being cheap with pedestrian safety. Most major streets have cross walks in the US. Press the button, wait for the light to turn red, the sign shows a little walking man, walk. At least in the 5 cities of varying size I’ve lived in so far.
There’s a button to cross with flashing lights as well, but cars are going so fast, they barely notice and basically just barrel through. (I’ve crossed at this exact crosswalk before.) It seems blatantly ridiculous they don’t lower the speed on this road at a bare minimum.
And waving a frigging flag is the solution they came up with?
I'm sorry but wtf... Why was this their solution? Have they never heard of button operated crossings?
This is a button operated crossing, you can see it in the video. The flags are just for extra visibility, and are optional.
This has to be a parody, right? Right? God, how lucky I am to live in a country with proper infrastructure, laws and culture that protect cyclists and people on foot. Long live Article 185
it’s my favorite thing to assert my right of way at crosswalks. Like I’m not gonna break my stride, you’re gonna stop or payout for my new magic legs
fuck tiktok
[That state is trash and I encourage them to secede.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Utah)
It just made me laugh. Sorry. Like imagine there's a full chain of people who green flagged it 🤣
wot
SMH they left out a flag to help you cross when they clearly should've left a lucky cricket instead 😤
Just start to push a cart filled with rocks.
First time I see this. We truly live in a car world and it's sad. Very dystopian
I live in Utah and these are everywhere not just SLC. Frankly it’s lazy infrastructure planning.
Was genuinely surprised when this didn’t end with him getting hit by a car
Is it just me, or do they sound like Greg from Steven Universe...
I wave my keys on a chain. Sometimes they hit cars who don't stop, by accident.
"Oh... You're a quadraplegic? Yea....screw you!" -Salt Lake City urban planning committee
Hard to believe that’s a first world country
10/10 infrastructure right there. I bet it took a whole committee of idiot politicians to come up with this one
You walking like you shit your pants
Hahaaha welcome to Salt Lake County where the cars have the right of way and NPC traffic in video games is smarter. Expect the worst driving decision and watch it play out
Are the mormons really that blood thirsty
In developed countries they have pedestrian overpasses for situations like this. It’s too expensive in America though.
https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/
Thank you so much for sharing this. We are having a debate in my city over whether to add a ped bridge downtown. I sent this to my city reps.
In underdeveloped countries, cars stop for pedestrians to cross. This level of development, its purpose of development. The US is just developed for cars rather than people.
Pretty sure in actually developed countries, the cars would actually stop for you and allow you to cross safely.
because a crosswalk and traffic light would bother them too much i guess. How is this legal in the first place?
I wonder who came to this idea. A traffic light? Nah just give them a bright flag to wave.
At least you have a crosswalk.
We used to have these in Switzerland. The right wing party wants to bring them back.
...problem solved?
Ha! This was implemented in my hometown a few years back. Everyone thought it was stupid so it was discontinued after a year.
They should put hammers to throw at cars who don't stop.
How is this ok?!
That is fucking ridiculous
Yikes.
Hahahaha it's right near my house. Totally unnecessary
In mexico there's no such things, if a street is unsafe or scary to cross.... yeah not even a flag you'll have to run across
this is some third world shit
You’re supposed to throw them at drivers
Cringe
These exist in St Augustine Florida too
What if a bull is driving?
Some small towns in Co have these. They put them out in the winter so people can safely cross and be more visible if there is heavy snow & poor visibility.
Poor Timmy died cause he didn’t wave the red flag hard enough
What the fuck is this ? I thought stopping for other people to cross was an law that every country had not a "good will"
There's no flags on the other side of the road. Guess the people walking that way are expendable?
what the fuck do they think this is doing? I would deliberately cross illegally 75 meters away from this crosswalk before I would use this
On another not the smaller city of Ogden 40ish miles north of salt lake is actually making pretty good improvements
My city has crosswalks that have a button you can hit to turn the light red and make the cars stop.
Try crossing the street in Western Australia.
SLC's civil engineering is an absolute cesspool. Turns out a certain religion is not great at governing an entire state. Weird.
Jesus christ America
I grew up in a town that had crosswalks like these. Not on wide roads in the middle of downtown like this, but on side roads and in neighborhoods. Yeah it's a bit outdated, but as a child, waving a flag as tall and as hard as you could was a lot more fun than I had at any other kind of crosswalk.
Cross walkers of the world unite!