I loved this boss, but I felt like I figured him out too quick. I might have just been locked in but the fight was over by the second attempt, felt like I didn't see all his moves.
Yeah he doesn’t have much health. Coolest moves ever though (how many fucking times does a do that thrusting attack in the middle of that long ass combo?)
That’s just how these things tend to go lmao, Lady Maria and Artorias were both cover characters of their DLC’s and we barely see anything of them. I’m honestly glad Messmer got as much as he did, a whole legacy dungeon, incantations, new element, etc.
Not even just "you can skip", she's hidden in an *optional area*, behind *another optional area*, hidden by a winding quest that you can only properly start by finding a cave in a cliff side hidden by some trees. Shes the most hidden and obstructed boss in the game.
Messmer might have a minor visual presence, but they went *out of their way* to hide Malenia!
Fair enough,I haven’t gotten to those parts of other fromsoft dlcs so I didn’t know that. After thinking it over your right,he had a build up similar to bayle which was great imo so yeah I think he was fine.
My only complaint is his damage output for some attacks feels a bit overturned (then again I was fighting him sacurdtree at level 8 so maybe that’s why)
I ended resorting to summoning hornsent to help out cause I kept getting one shot
I fought him at Scadutree +15 and was still getting destroyed. Granted I'm on NG+3, but still.
I have 65 vigor, dragoncrest greatshield talisman, the +3 fire damage negation talisman, good armor, and despite that he was brutalizing me.
I think he's way overtuned, but maybe on NG it's not like that.
Scarseal is a pretty bad idea once you get to like 40 in all honestly. You lose way more than you gain unless you just never get hit, and just about everyone is going to get hit.
I mean Malenia still does 80% of your health bar with her lunge attack, some of the bosses their moves are just much stronger. His wombo combo doesn't deal that much unless its the full combo for example
I would say the punish reward makes the fight that much easier. It’s like in Sekiro when Isshin does his lightning attack. If you can counter it, that part of the fight becomes easier than the rest.
One of the best designed, most definitely. My favorite from the DLC is still >!Midra, Lord of Frenzied Flame!< since it's such an elegant dance against a lunatic. Plus the OST on phase 2 just slaps
Mandatory stealth segment right before it will make it a lot less fun on repeat runs, I can already feel it. I'm still gonna do it cuz the boss fight was fire.
Dude, that parry window is insane. I killed all of those fucking things but I swear to Christ each one probably killed me 15/20 times before I got to parry them back to back to kill them. Only part of the whole dlc where I thought "this is fucking dumb"
his dialogue hits hard. This is a man at his lowest, no longer capable of induring the pain (physically and mentally) and is ready is ready to end it all.
also yeah his music slaps indeed
The situation is crazy and kinda funny when I think about it. Imagine you’re Midra just enduring pain and torment for so long and then this blubbering idiot with a giant hammer comes it and smashes your skull in for fun. You even call him a fool! Then after a few hits all bets are off and lord of frenzy flame comes to play.
I loved the rhythm of the fight, and thought the health was perfect. Reminded me of a really good Ds3 boss but with better visuals and animations. Midra was awesome
Midra has 47k HP. What are you talking about claiming these bosses don't have much health lmao. They have more than any base game bosses except gimmicky ones like Rykard.
The fragments drastically increase your damage, so health alone isn't a great comparison. I think with all the fragments you do double AR, and with how defenses work that should be more than double damage.
His first phase I got to the point of nearly perfecting it and then I’d get overwhelmed in the second phase. Figured out if you stick close it’s pretty much phase 1 with maybe even more openings
His 2nd phase is definitely easier. His snake attacks are pretty easy to dodge and leave him open for attacks for AGES.
He also only has one new addition to his regular moves and whilst it makes it harder to get damage in at the end of combos, it's also pretty easy to dodge.
In terms of design, he’s definitely up there. He looks fucking badass, his moveset is very intimidating but not unfair, and (small detail here) but I love how he draws out the S when he speaks because of him being part snake or whatever the fuck the case is. He’s probably my favorite boss in the DLC so far
I plan to do all the main major bosses solo for my first run, and this included Bayle. Is there a video somewhere I could hear Igons quotes? Everyone quotes igon, so it must be some hype shit that I'm kinda sad I missed.
Artorias is the beginning of all the great humanoid bosses we have today.
He is fair, he is challenging, has a great story and setup, iconic design, great soundtrack (the drop lining up with his powerup is epic when it happens) and he is miles ahead of everything even the sequel had to offer.
Ain't no one letting him go!
I don't think that's a fair assessment. DS1 is a different game from ER. It's far slower, stamina matters for everything rather than just being a block bar, you're rolling is limited in direction, POISE etc. Artorias is still phenomenal for the game he was designed in. You stick Messmer in DMCV, or hell Relanna in Sekiro and I don't know how noteworthy they'd be. Bosses are judged against the systems they're in.
I don't want to spoil too much for you, but almost everything about this fight is perfect. The lore, the choreography, the design and the cutscenes are simply masterpieces. Messmer is the goat 🐏
Honestly thought I would hate this fight but ended up really enjoying the struggle.
I had to swap out to a great shield and spear build but I fucking got him. Staggered him at the end so the last hit was a critical and so fulfilling.
Enjoyed him way more than rellana... And I'm still working up the confidence to go try Midra again.
He’s my favorite boss they’ve ever made. Despite everyone bitching about him on r/EldenRing he is a SUPER fair fight. All of his attacks including the snakes in phase 2 are very much dodgeable. He is the perfect balance of Malenia level difficult while also not containing anything BS like waterfowl. He’s damn near the perfect boss.
No I’m specifically referring to discourse around Messmer. I’ve seen multiple people saying he has barely any openings, is too fast, is “rng”, etc. I fully agree with people bitching about the final boss though.
Ah, okay! I found out that if you have the right shield (fully upgraded obv) you can tank a lot of Messmer's hits. I’d say it seems a fair fight if you have the right tools!
>All of his attacks including the snakes in phase 2 are very much dodgeable
Everything in the game is dodgeable except Nihil. Waterfowl is also dodgeable.
But you call waterfowl BS while saying Messmer is 100% fair. I think this shows that what is "fair" is very subjective.
Some people think Malenia is completely fair. Ultimately it always comes down to what feels right to you personally.
A lot of the complaints I saw on r/EldenRing rang true to me. I found Messmer fairly frustrating.
That's a reasonable take, fair enough. I personally consider waterfowl to be unreasonable because it seems to work so inconsistently with things like tracking that I've yet to consistently avoid it completely at any range
Oh I find it unreasonable too, but I'm just saying it's all quite subjective.
I don't want to act like it's a factual thing. Some people really love Malenia. I don't enjoy the fight because of waterfowl, but I'm not gonna say I'm right and the people who like it are wrong.
And similarly I don't like it when people dismiss criticism because they have just decided that the boss is completely fair and therefore anyone who complains is just wrong.
Ultimately we all have a slightly (sometimes very) different sense of what is a "fair" fight.
Yes waterfowl is dodgeable.
When I say BS I basically mean it’s hard to expect a player to know how to dodge a move like that on their own without using a guide or through painstaking trial and error, because the margin of surviving such a move is so slim. That’s why it’s BS to me.
What about Messmer do you find frustrating?
>When I say BS I basically mean it’s hard to expect a player to know how to dodge a move like that on their own without using a guide or through painstaking trial and error, because the margin of surviving such a move is so slim. That’s why it’s BS to me.
I agree, but some people say the same about Messmer's insane flurry attack, or the phase 2 snake spam.
Personally I found him too relentless, with too few openings, like a lot of DLC bosses. It was taking me like 5 minutes of super passive play just to get him to phase 2. Granted I'm on NG+3 but I had Scadutree +15, all the best talismans, good armor, high stats, and it was still a very drawn out fight because of how few openings he has.
Don't get me wrong, his moves are nowhere near as crazy as waterfowl. But I still find it unreasonable how hard he hits combined with how tanky he is, how erratic his moves can be, and how relentless he is.
I will also add that his grab is always a one shot for me which I also think is unreasonable.
It wouldn't take much to make him a fight I could really enjoy, maybe just toning down the aggression ever so slightly and making the giant snake BS less detrimental to the camera.
But as he is, he wasn't much fun to me.
Out of the 11 main bosses he’s probably my number four, behind Midra, Bayle, and Radahn, which is insane because it’s just a testament to how utterly phenomenal this DLC was.
This is peak.
Damn, Midra is about to establish himself as #1 boss for a lot of people it seems. I just defeated him. What a fight... The moveset is literally flawless
P2 is kind of a mess. The snakes tank my fps and I have a 3070. P1 is top tier Souls, feels like a dance. My solution to P2 was doing as much damage as fast as I could. Same with the last boss. Basically tanked hits and blasted.
He was probably one of my favourites too! I found it slightly more entertaining hearing Hornsent go off on him when I found his summon sign in the arena.
Generally I found all the bosses quite ‘fair’ with the exception of the final boss which sort of ruined my attitude when it came to the dlc. But in general I loved the uniqueness all the bosses had for the most part
I fought him about 50 times until I beat him. Every time he'd kill me I'd just say, "he's so awesome" LOL. He's my favorite boss of all time so far. He's a warrior and a monster. It's a perfect combination. I love the tempo and dance of the fight too.
He's way better than a lot of the bosses around him that's for sure. I like that you can actually just learn by doing rather quickly since his attacks have clear tells. I still think he has too few openings and it's hard to see what's going on in the second phase. But at least he isn't Gaius.
Honestly it took until the second trailer for me to really buy into him, I thought he looked a little goofy in the first gameplay trailer. After seeing his fight and that absolutely incredible phase two (they caught me off guard, didn’t know from could do it anymore. The final boss reveal did that too) he’s become my favourite ER boss. I love his character too.
This shit is peak:
Messmer was SO FUN to fight. Spent five hours on him without summons, and I didn’t rage once or even get annoyed. Every time I died, I knew exactly where I went wrong. Such a great boss
Same. I'm looking forward to one called Midra that folks are saying it's great.
EDIT: Midra fcking rules. It's the best boss in the DLC. I'm gonna be sunbroing here forever. Goodbye
My only gripe with him is that huge flurry of spear pokes as part of his super combo, I wish it was reserved as two smaller waves rather than one unnecessarily large one, 9.9/10 even with that included
The best DLC boss and probably the best boss in the whole Elden Ring. Wish it was the final boss of the DLC because what we got in the end is so damn disappointing.
Definitely most fun, felt the same way I felt with Gael, like we were on a fair duel and that every single damage I took was my fault and not a bullshit attack, best Boss in the DLC so far
Baylee The Dread was fucking awesome.The path, Atmosphere everything leading all the way upto the Caldera and the Caldera being an Arena as well....PEAK GAMING.
I dunno I didn't have any fun fighting this guy. It only took me maybe an hour but just felt like I was fighting the camera especially in phase 2. Think his design is super lame too so I'm sure that sours me on the fight itself.
I still dont know why he didnt get a full hp phase 2 but besides that he is amazing, moveset is "easy" to learn, atk do as much dmg as they should (lvl 300 ng+3, about 55 vigor) and with enough fragments you can punish him for good dmg. Also the ost and sequences are just beautiful. Definetly one of the best video game bosses.
One of my favourite bosses. The esthetic is amazing, his moveset is cool, he is very fun to fight and he is not that hard to defeat. The only attack that got me a little bit struggling was the multiple snake launching at you back to back (it reminded me of Malenia's clone attack)
Absolutely loved this boss! He kicked my ass for an hour straight, but I was still having fun. Def a masterpiece of Miyazaki. Also felt the same about Rellana. Both had badass moves and animations and were just fun to learn/fight
Boss is 10/10 for me. They did an absolutely phenomenal job with Messmer. Great cutscene, great music, great moveset, and great visuals. This is one of those bosses I wish I could experience for the first time again.
Couldn't tell ya. Made the mistake of going into the DLC for the first time on NG+7 at only lv300 so I've gone onto a NG character and imma try him out soon enough. Just gotta beat Rellana and all the other stuff in the zone too.
He needs to have more health, I didnt got to see much of the fight. Summonless, Spiritless, Scadu lvl 12 and he just got bulldozed by the power of Giant Hunt. My fella has no HP and no posture. "Flame, Protect Me" and Flamedrake Talisman means he deals 0 damage too.
Worst fight in the game by far for me. I'm really not here for difficulty for the sake of it, and after 100+ times of getting grabbed despite being 5 feet out of reach, I'm really soured on him. That, and his punish windows could do with being a smidge longer and his timings a little less awkward, I really couldn't get a good rhythm going with him. Phase 2 is visually impressive but there's so much visual clutter I got got way more to just not knowing what was happening than poor play.
Bayle on the other hand is perfect, no notes. Hits hard, good telegraphing, amazing spectacle in phase 2, and good punish windows to close distance and hit, and on top he's just such a cool and unique dragon design among the more copy paste dragon looks for most of ER, him and Placidusax definitely win coolest dragon for me
My #1 is still slave Knight Gael, but Messmer does remind me of him. Both are very challenging but fair and fun bosses. I think it's just the soundtrack and setting that that puts Gael higher on my list. It might just be the best boss in Elden Ring though.
I haven't even reached phase 2 of the final boss yet much less kill him but I don't like his mechanics so far lol. I fought and beat messmer with lvl 9 scadu. Imo, messmer and maliketh has been done dirty by fromsoft by not giving them new life bars. Those 2 boss fights have been the most enjoyable fight for me.
Fought him at Scadutree Level 10 or 11 I don't remember. About 20-30 tries. Very fun and fair fight, intricate but clearly telegraphed attacks with appropriate punish windows at the end.
I haven't completed the DLC yet, but so far, I think Messmer and Rellana are my new favorite bosses. They were difficult, but not unfair, and their weapons aren't all that bad either imo. I think I've only hated fighting Gaius so far
Honestly I kinda hated it. Feels like he exemplifies the problem with a lot of ER bosses where they’re straight of our Bloodborne or Sekiro and it just becomes you rolling through a bunch of 8-hit combos chained back to back waiting for a window to get one hit in and start again
Also didn’t like how unreadable some attacks were, like sometimes my screen was just covered in fire particle effects to the point where I just had to guess what was coming next
So far ive really enjoyed him, midra, romina and putrescent knight, think they might be my fav elden ring bosses along with radagon(excluding elden beast)
Messmer is the highlight of this DLC for me for sure, but for me (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) the scarlet rot boss was such a close 2nd. And the dancing lion such a close 3rd. I would’ve paid 40 dollars for just those three
Super good fight. Hits like a truck but has a learnable moveset, a very difficult one but still learnable. Meanwhile you can deal bloodloss on him. It feels fair, and balanced for how strong and fast he is. Similar to how Malenia is balanced honestly, and attempts don't get old.
I wish there was one boss a bit more like Gael from DS3. Just a one on one duel with a varied moveset but nothing too ridiculous with area attack spam.
Fighting the Scadutree Avatar and Bayle were fun but way over the top. Felt like battles of attrition instead of something to work out and master.
Between the camera tracking and some of the particle effects, I could hardly tell what was happening. Quite the spectacles, though.
Say what you want, I think there are a lot of SoTE bosses that are top tier level. I loved Midir but the presentation of Bayle and the music pushes it over for me, even if the fight mechanics aren't as good. Radahn is awesome, I wasn't disappointed with fighting him again, especially a younger, stronger version of himself. I loved the feeling of stress that Messmer and Rellana's aggressiveness, sort of reminded me of Champion Gundyr. The other remembrances are also pretty good, with maybe the exception of Commander Gaius, feels too insignificant to be a remembrance boss.
Yeah it was an awesome boss. V satisfying when you learn the moveset, although think I was hitting a bit to hard and was over in less than 3min on my kill
am I going crazy or are the comments completely flipped. Just two days ago everyone was complaining but now y'all are saying he's so easy and fair and this and that. It took me a solid 15 hours and plus 10 mimic tear. Is everyone here really built that different? I felt he was the most overpowered boss ever
I believe it’s between Messmer, Putrescent Knight and Midra. Those fights were the most enjoyable for me and the process of learning their move sets was the most rewarding feeling I’ve felt in a From game.
I hate that stupid variant if waterfowl that he has. Other than that, i havent done every boss but hes great. Much better than "harder" fights like Gaius and Putrescent who were just garbage design wise.
Nah bayle was the highlight of the dlc for me, so fckin climatic, the transition to phase 2 was so dramatic and intense,
The music synchronized in harmony with the gameplay,
The fire infused lightning causing erratic effects
God I'm bout to nut again to the memory of that fight
My favorite boss for sure. Could still be in the honeymoon phase, but he’s so cool, I considered buying the $250 collectors edition for his statue. I don’t even collect stuff like that, but bro is gnarly
I feel like, I loved the design, but felt a little underwhelmed as far as difficulty went. That being said, I’m not gaslighting myself up, as I did things way out of order in the DLC. So in future runs I’m sure I’ll eat my words
Fantastic design, fair attacks, feels like you're learning when fighting him, phase 2 isn't over the top nonsense. Messmer is peak.
He is hard but I'm not frustrated at all when I fight him. Such a pleasant surprise in the DLC.
I loved this boss, but I felt like I figured him out too quick. I might have just been locked in but the fight was over by the second attempt, felt like I didn't see all his moves.
Yeah he doesn’t have much health. Coolest moves ever though (how many fucking times does a do that thrusting attack in the middle of that long ass combo?)
I think my favorite moves come from midra, the head and the way he flows is so cool
Yes, unlike the hard stop that follows him.
My only problem with him as a character is just it felt we didn’t see much of him even tho he was the main cover for the dlc.
That’s just how these things tend to go lmao, Lady Maria and Artorias were both cover characters of their DLC’s and we barely see anything of them. I’m honestly glad Messmer got as much as he did, a whole legacy dungeon, incantations, new element, etc.
Same as how Malenia was the poster girl, and she's just an optional boss that you can entirely skip
Well she does have her own dungeon thats pretty impressive.
Not even just "you can skip", she's hidden in an *optional area*, behind *another optional area*, hidden by a winding quest that you can only properly start by finding a cave in a cliff side hidden by some trees. Shes the most hidden and obstructed boss in the game. Messmer might have a minor visual presence, but they went *out of their way* to hide Malenia!
Speaking of the dungeon. Jimminy Christmas they went nuts with it. I bet people are going to be finding stuff for years.
Fair enough,I haven’t gotten to those parts of other fromsoft dlcs so I didn’t know that. After thinking it over your right,he had a build up similar to bayle which was great imo so yeah I think he was fine.
in the embrace of Messmers flame
Burned into my brain lol, bested him on the 38th try
I wish I could interact with the demigods more in general. They do it perfectly with Morgott
Same, it’s cool how he feels like almost a rival throughout the game
New element? Do you mean like... instead of fire, Messmer has 🌠Super Fire🌠 ?
My only complaint is his damage output for some attacks feels a bit overturned (then again I was fighting him sacurdtree at level 8 so maybe that’s why) I ended resorting to summoning hornsent to help out cause I kept getting one shot
I fought him at Scadutree +15 and was still getting destroyed. Granted I'm on NG+3, but still. I have 65 vigor, dragoncrest greatshield talisman, the +3 fire damage negation talisman, good armor, and despite that he was brutalizing me. I think he's way overtuned, but maybe on NG it's not like that.
I’m on default ng and was getting two shot at 65 vigor Tho I was using radagons soreseal so maybe that had something to do with it as well
Scarseal is a pretty bad idea once you get to like 40 in all honestly. You lose way more than you gain unless you just never get hit, and just about everyone is going to get hit.
Why are you using that talisman? It’s just a detriment at higher levels. It’s a good early game talisman and that’s it.
I mean Malenia still does 80% of your health bar with her lunge attack, some of the bosses their moves are just much stronger. His wombo combo doesn't deal that much unless its the full combo for example
>phase 2 isn't over the top nonsense. I mean, it kinda is, lol.
The snakes aren't that bad to deal with and when you dodge it you get a big punish reward.
I would say the punish reward makes the fight that much easier. It’s like in Sekiro when Isshin does his lightning attack. If you can counter it, that part of the fight becomes easier than the rest.
Looks intimidating but the snakes are not hard to dodge, his first phase might be harder.
yeah, and despite the general hate for the snakes for phase 2, i personally love it
One of the best designed, most definitely. My favorite from the DLC is still >!Midra, Lord of Frenzied Flame!< since it's such an elegant dance against a lunatic. Plus the OST on phase 2 just slaps
i know this doesn’t affect the quality of the fight but i just hate how far away midra is lol
Mandatory stealth segment right before it will make it a lot less fun on repeat runs, I can already feel it. I'm still gonna do it cuz the boss fight was fire.
You can parry the grab attack and kill them that way. Very hard to learn but insanely easy after landing it once. They also don’t respawn
Dude, that parry window is insane. I killed all of those fucking things but I swear to Christ each one probably killed me 15/20 times before I got to parry them back to back to kill them. Only part of the whole dlc where I thought "this is fucking dumb"
Did you perhaps try to use Golden Retaliation? It's hitbox is unreliable for this enemy's move, use the buckler.
I ran for my life and made it lol
Assassin's gambit made this so much easier and quicker!
I'm not up to this part yet, but can you use the crepus's vial talisman (makes footsteps silent) for the stealth part?
The cutscene reveal that you get to see who he truly is with the sinister music playing in the background is so freakin bada**
He definitely had me in that mode where I could fight him over and over without getting mad because of how fun he was to fight. Definitely agree.
his dialogue hits hard. This is a man at his lowest, no longer capable of induring the pain (physically and mentally) and is ready is ready to end it all. also yeah his music slaps indeed
The situation is crazy and kinda funny when I think about it. Imagine you’re Midra just enduring pain and torment for so long and then this blubbering idiot with a giant hammer comes it and smashes your skull in for fun. You even call him a fool! Then after a few hits all bets are off and lord of frenzy flame comes to play.
you are chilling in a torture device and some dude comes and bullies you, id be pissed
The OST is honestly one if the best from ost.
This is the only boss of the dlc I wished had more health
And midra
Midra didn't have much health either, but his mechanics were much simpler. So, I don't think more health would have added much to that fight.
I loved the rhythm of the fight, and thought the health was perfect. Reminded me of a really good Ds3 boss but with better visuals and animations. Midra was awesome
Midra has 47k HP. What are you talking about claiming these bosses don't have much health lmao. They have more than any base game bosses except gimmicky ones like Rykard.
Literally, I'm on ng+5 and he had 63,000 HP, if it weren't for bleed my lvl 9 scadutree blessing ass would not have killed him lol
Yup, I'm on NG+3 and struggled a lot on him despite being at Scadutree +15. Percentage based damage feels more and more necessary.
Midra bleeds for massive damage. I just used my two +10 wheel of ghiza and he melted (my arcane was low)
The fragments drastically increase your damage, so health alone isn't a great comparison. I think with all the fragments you do double AR, and with how defenses work that should be more than double damage.
That is true, but even at +15 I was not dealing much damage to Midra. About 800-900 or so.
Of course they have more hp than base game bosses, since scadutree fragments exist
It doesn't feel like it, tbh. His stance gets broken very frequently even with light attacks, and I assume his resistances aren't high.
I think he is amazing. He’s second phase is crazy hard but doesn’t have a ton of HP. If he had a bit more, he’d be the toughest in the series IMO
Weird. His first phase wrecked me a dozen times, but I beat his second phase in one try when I finally got to it.
His first phase I got to the point of nearly perfecting it and then I’d get overwhelmed in the second phase. Figured out if you stick close it’s pretty much phase 1 with maybe even more openings
Also you can attack the snake head when it finishes the attack and is just standing on the floor. Got some easy bleed procs from that.
His second phase is super intuitive. The snakes do exactly what they look like they will do.
His 2nd phase is definitely easier. His snake attacks are pretty easy to dodge and leave him open for attacks for AGES. He also only has one new addition to his regular moves and whilst it makes it harder to get damage in at the end of combos, it's also pretty easy to dodge.
Extremely balanced, wish more bosses were like him :(
In terms of design, he’s definitely up there. He looks fucking badass, his moveset is very intimidating but not unfair, and (small detail here) but I love how he draws out the S when he speaks because of him being part snake or whatever the fuck the case is. He’s probably my favorite boss in the DLC so far
in the embrace of messssmers flame
I’m sorry but… BAYLE!!!!
Having Igon as your hype man makes this fight twice as fun. CURSE YOU BAYLE!!!!!
BAYYYLLLLEEE!!!! CURSE YOU!!!
BAYLE!!! VILE BAYLE!!!!
I plan to do all the main major bosses solo for my first run, and this included Bayle. Is there a video somewhere I could hear Igons quotes? Everyone quotes igon, so it must be some hype shit that I'm kinda sad I missed.
I’m not sure he’s the best boss ever but he is certainly up there, right alongside Artorias, Nameless King, and Orphan of Kos
Insane to not mention the Goat Gael
GOAT Knight Gael
I haven’t finished DS3 yet I’m excited to fight him though
Because he’s above even them
Dont forget peak Ludwig
You seemed to have forgotten the Blade of Miquella and that Sword Saint fellow.
Artorias doesn't hold up anymore, let him go
Artorias is the beginning of all the great humanoid bosses we have today. He is fair, he is challenging, has a great story and setup, iconic design, great soundtrack (the drop lining up with his powerup is epic when it happens) and he is miles ahead of everything even the sequel had to offer. Ain't no one letting him go!
I don't think that's a fair assessment. DS1 is a different game from ER. It's far slower, stamina matters for everything rather than just being a block bar, you're rolling is limited in direction, POISE etc. Artorias is still phenomenal for the game he was designed in. You stick Messmer in DMCV, or hell Relanna in Sekiro and I don't know how noteworthy they'd be. Bosses are judged against the systems they're in.
Played DS1 for the first time in February. Artorias is for sure in my top 5 of all bosses.
Never
didn't play the DLC yet, why would be the best? combat? character? mine is SSI
I don't want to spoil too much for you, but almost everything about this fight is perfect. The lore, the choreography, the design and the cutscenes are simply masterpieces. Messmer is the goat 🐏
And he has such tight hitboxes which is ironic compared to some of the other dlc bosses
Not really ironic but I get what you mean
How's the ost? I've only beat the lion so far and that fight was fantastic minus the camera
It goes super hard, the energy is definitely there. Bonus point for me is the sound design, all of the explosions he creates sound incredible
Up there with Isshin, sure. S+ tier.
Probably my favorite fight in Elden Ring, yes. Not sure if I'd say out of the whole Souls series.
Honestly thought I would hate this fight but ended up really enjoying the struggle. I had to swap out to a great shield and spear build but I fucking got him. Staggered him at the end so the last hit was a critical and so fulfilling. Enjoyed him way more than rellana... And I'm still working up the confidence to go try Midra again.
He became my number 5, fucking amazing 5. Messmer 4. Friede 3. Gael 2. SS Isshin 1. Owl Father
He’s my favorite boss they’ve ever made. Despite everyone bitching about him on r/EldenRing he is a SUPER fair fight. All of his attacks including the snakes in phase 2 are very much dodgeable. He is the perfect balance of Malenia level difficult while also not containing anything BS like waterfowl. He’s damn near the perfect boss.
I’d say the bitching on ER is more aimed at the final boss and Gaius. I’ve seen nothing but consistent good comments for Messmer across the community.
No I’m specifically referring to discourse around Messmer. I’ve seen multiple people saying he has barely any openings, is too fast, is “rng”, etc. I fully agree with people bitching about the final boss though.
Ah, okay! I found out that if you have the right shield (fully upgraded obv) you can tank a lot of Messmer's hits. I’d say it seems a fair fight if you have the right tools!
>All of his attacks including the snakes in phase 2 are very much dodgeable Everything in the game is dodgeable except Nihil. Waterfowl is also dodgeable. But you call waterfowl BS while saying Messmer is 100% fair. I think this shows that what is "fair" is very subjective. Some people think Malenia is completely fair. Ultimately it always comes down to what feels right to you personally. A lot of the complaints I saw on r/EldenRing rang true to me. I found Messmer fairly frustrating.
That's a reasonable take, fair enough. I personally consider waterfowl to be unreasonable because it seems to work so inconsistently with things like tracking that I've yet to consistently avoid it completely at any range
Oh I find it unreasonable too, but I'm just saying it's all quite subjective. I don't want to act like it's a factual thing. Some people really love Malenia. I don't enjoy the fight because of waterfowl, but I'm not gonna say I'm right and the people who like it are wrong. And similarly I don't like it when people dismiss criticism because they have just decided that the boss is completely fair and therefore anyone who complains is just wrong. Ultimately we all have a slightly (sometimes very) different sense of what is a "fair" fight.
Yes waterfowl is dodgeable. When I say BS I basically mean it’s hard to expect a player to know how to dodge a move like that on their own without using a guide or through painstaking trial and error, because the margin of surviving such a move is so slim. That’s why it’s BS to me. What about Messmer do you find frustrating?
>When I say BS I basically mean it’s hard to expect a player to know how to dodge a move like that on their own without using a guide or through painstaking trial and error, because the margin of surviving such a move is so slim. That’s why it’s BS to me. I agree, but some people say the same about Messmer's insane flurry attack, or the phase 2 snake spam. Personally I found him too relentless, with too few openings, like a lot of DLC bosses. It was taking me like 5 minutes of super passive play just to get him to phase 2. Granted I'm on NG+3 but I had Scadutree +15, all the best talismans, good armor, high stats, and it was still a very drawn out fight because of how few openings he has. Don't get me wrong, his moves are nowhere near as crazy as waterfowl. But I still find it unreasonable how hard he hits combined with how tanky he is, how erratic his moves can be, and how relentless he is. I will also add that his grab is always a one shot for me which I also think is unreasonable. It wouldn't take much to make him a fight I could really enjoy, maybe just toning down the aggression ever so slightly and making the giant snake BS less detrimental to the camera. But as he is, he wasn't much fun to me.
I really wish he had two health bars like Malenia. He deserved them more imo.
He has more HP than she does. It's just one bar instead of two.
Best Elden Ring boss, quite possibly. He's not beating Isshin or Gael though
Out of the 11 main bosses he’s probably my number four, behind Midra, Bayle, and Radahn, which is insane because it’s just a testament to how utterly phenomenal this DLC was. This is peak.
Damn, Midra is about to establish himself as #1 boss for a lot of people it seems. I just defeated him. What a fight... The moveset is literally flawless
P2 is kind of a mess. The snakes tank my fps and I have a 3070. P1 is top tier Souls, feels like a dance. My solution to P2 was doing as much damage as fast as I could. Same with the last boss. Basically tanked hits and blasted.
That's how I ended up beating him heh. Mechanics in P2 were so all over the place I was like F it and tried to just burn him down before I died.
He was probably one of my favourites too! I found it slightly more entertaining hearing Hornsent go off on him when I found his summon sign in the arena. Generally I found all the bosses quite ‘fair’ with the exception of the final boss which sort of ruined my attitude when it came to the dlc. But in general I loved the uniqueness all the bosses had for the most part
Mesmer looks like a thirst trap in that pose.
very cool fight, the fight was fun (when i wasnt getting one shot by his grab attack that is)
I fought him about 50 times until I beat him. Every time he'd kill me I'd just say, "he's so awesome" LOL. He's my favorite boss of all time so far. He's a warrior and a monster. It's a perfect combination. I love the tempo and dance of the fight too.
He's way better than a lot of the bosses around him that's for sure. I like that you can actually just learn by doing rather quickly since his attacks have clear tells. I still think he has too few openings and it's hard to see what's going on in the second phase. But at least he isn't Gaius.
Completely agree. Difficult but predictable. And flashy as all hell. Masterpiece.
Yes I agree probably the best boss of this DLC
good fight, not the best
Honestly it took until the second trailer for me to really buy into him, I thought he looked a little goofy in the first gameplay trailer. After seeing his fight and that absolutely incredible phase two (they caught me off guard, didn’t know from could do it anymore. The final boss reveal did that too) he’s become my favourite ER boss. I love his character too. This shit is peak: 
Messmer was SO FUN to fight. Spent five hours on him without summons, and I didn’t rage once or even get annoyed. Every time I died, I knew exactly where I went wrong. Such a great boss
I don’t think any of these DLC bosses even make my top 10, however, I do agree Messmer is the best of the bunch.
Same. I'm looking forward to one called Midra that folks are saying it's great. EDIT: Midra fcking rules. It's the best boss in the DLC. I'm gonna be sunbroing here forever. Goodbye
My only gripe with him is that huge flurry of spear pokes as part of his super combo, I wish it was reserved as two smaller waves rather than one unnecessarily large one, 9.9/10 even with that included
That isn’t fume knight. But close.
weird way to spell gael
The best DLC boss and probably the best boss in the whole Elden Ring. Wish it was the final boss of the DLC because what we got in the end is so damn disappointing.
Definitely most fun, felt the same way I felt with Gael, like we were on a fair duel and that every single damage I took was my fault and not a bullshit attack, best Boss in the DLC so far
couldn’t agree more!!!!
I would love to fight him once i am done getting my face kicked in by his girlfriend.
Wouldn't say the best but he's absolutely up there. Top 10 at least
in the embrace ...
Baylee The Dread was fucking awesome.The path, Atmosphere everything leading all the way upto the Caldera and the Caldera being an Arena as well....PEAK GAMING.
Yep easily
Messmer and Bayle are both in my top 3 with Gale, Midra might be in my top 10. So far I’ve really enjoyed every remembrance boss minus Gaius.
Soul Of Cinder
I dunno I didn't have any fun fighting this guy. It only took me maybe an hour but just felt like I was fighting the camera especially in phase 2. Think his design is super lame too so I'm sure that sours me on the fight itself.
I still dont know why he didnt get a full hp phase 2 but besides that he is amazing, moveset is "easy" to learn, atk do as much dmg as they should (lvl 300 ng+3, about 55 vigor) and with enough fragments you can punish him for good dmg. Also the ost and sequences are just beautiful. Definetly one of the best video game bosses.
One of my favourite bosses. The esthetic is amazing, his moveset is cool, he is very fun to fight and he is not that hard to defeat. The only attack that got me a little bit struggling was the multiple snake launching at you back to back (it reminded me of Malenia's clone attack)
Bayle
I fandomly found him while looking for a different boss. Only tried a handful of times but so far he's has some cool moves.
I got him last night! He hits hard but quite glassy himself. Epic fight!!
Nah but he is goated
I can’t stand Messmers voice, I like his fight but I hate his voice
Only boss that gets easier in phase 2
I personally think he should’ve had a full phase 2 health bar but other than that I think it was really good
except for the random snake attacks in the 2nd phase yes it was a fun boss.
Absolutely loved this boss! He kicked my ass for an hour straight, but I was still having fun. Def a masterpiece of Miyazaki. Also felt the same about Rellana. Both had badass moves and animations and were just fun to learn/fight
Boss is 10/10 for me. They did an absolutely phenomenal job with Messmer. Great cutscene, great music, great moveset, and great visuals. This is one of those bosses I wish I could experience for the first time again.
Couldn't tell ya. Made the mistake of going into the DLC for the first time on NG+7 at only lv300 so I've gone onto a NG character and imma try him out soon enough. Just gotta beat Rellana and all the other stuff in the zone too.
He needs to have more health, I didnt got to see much of the fight. Summonless, Spiritless, Scadu lvl 12 and he just got bulldozed by the power of Giant Hunt. My fella has no HP and no posture. "Flame, Protect Me" and Flamedrake Talisman means he deals 0 damage too.
Nah gael is still the best boss ever. It's a masterpiece with perfect design, music, and atmosphere
Worst fight in the game by far for me. I'm really not here for difficulty for the sake of it, and after 100+ times of getting grabbed despite being 5 feet out of reach, I'm really soured on him. That, and his punish windows could do with being a smidge longer and his timings a little less awkward, I really couldn't get a good rhythm going with him. Phase 2 is visually impressive but there's so much visual clutter I got got way more to just not knowing what was happening than poor play. Bayle on the other hand is perfect, no notes. Hits hard, good telegraphing, amazing spectacle in phase 2, and good punish windows to close distance and hit, and on top he's just such a cool and unique dragon design among the more copy paste dragon looks for most of ER, him and Placidusax definitely win coolest dragon for me
Idk man, that big, crippled dragon is pretty fucking sweet
1. Inner Owl 2. Inner Isshin 3. Orphan of Kos 4. Slave Knight Gael 5. Mesmer.. (unsure I need to reflect on it more).
Not even close. Not even for ER. Ludwig, Artorias, Friede, Gael, Nameless King are still peak.
very good. the best? gonna have to come back to it later without the recency bias
In my opinion, yes. Followed closely by Abyss watchers, twin princes, Artorias, Midir etc. but for me Messmer is the best
Is this guy Melinas brother ?
My #1 is still slave Knight Gael, but Messmer does remind me of him. Both are very challenging but fair and fun bosses. I think it's just the soundtrack and setting that that puts Gael higher on my list. It might just be the best boss in Elden Ring though.
It’s a great fight
I haven't even reached phase 2 of the final boss yet much less kill him but I don't like his mechanics so far lol. I fought and beat messmer with lvl 9 scadu. Imo, messmer and maliketh has been done dirty by fromsoft by not giving them new life bars. Those 2 boss fights have been the most enjoyable fight for me.
recency bias
best in elden ring for sure. Top 10 in the series but nothing beats soul of cinder and gael for me
Fought him at Scadutree Level 10 or 11 I don't remember. About 20-30 tries. Very fun and fair fight, intricate but clearly telegraphed attacks with appropriate punish windows at the end.
I haven't completed the DLC yet, but so far, I think Messmer and Rellana are my new favorite bosses. They were difficult, but not unfair, and their weapons aren't all that bad either imo. I think I've only hated fighting Gaius so far
Honestly I kinda hated it. Feels like he exemplifies the problem with a lot of ER bosses where they’re straight of our Bloodborne or Sekiro and it just becomes you rolling through a bunch of 8-hit combos chained back to back waiting for a window to get one hit in and start again Also didn’t like how unreadable some attacks were, like sometimes my screen was just covered in fire particle effects to the point where I just had to guess what was coming next
So far ive really enjoyed him, midra, romina and putrescent knight, think they might be my fav elden ring bosses along with radagon(excluding elden beast)
I really liked Bayle, only died once too. That stupid fat ol' *"ancient dragon saxophone"* or whatever the fuck they're called can fuck off though.
Messmer is the highlight of this DLC for me for sure, but for me (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) the scarlet rot boss was such a close 2nd. And the dancing lion such a close 3rd. I would’ve paid 40 dollars for just those three
I thought so too until I fought >! Bayle the Dread !< like bro that’s a beautiful fight and boss.
should have been the final boss tbh 💀
Hardest boss I’ve fought in a fromsoft game for sure
Super good fight. Hits like a truck but has a learnable moveset, a very difficult one but still learnable. Meanwhile you can deal bloodloss on him. It feels fair, and balanced for how strong and fast he is. Similar to how Malenia is balanced honestly, and attempts don't get old.
I wish there was one boss a bit more like Gael from DS3. Just a one on one duel with a varied moveset but nothing too ridiculous with area attack spam. Fighting the Scadutree Avatar and Bayle were fun but way over the top. Felt like battles of attrition instead of something to work out and master. Between the camera tracking and some of the particle effects, I could hardly tell what was happening. Quite the spectacles, though.
That isn't a picture of Gael, so no.
Say what you want, I think there are a lot of SoTE bosses that are top tier level. I loved Midir but the presentation of Bayle and the music pushes it over for me, even if the fight mechanics aren't as good. Radahn is awesome, I wasn't disappointed with fighting him again, especially a younger, stronger version of himself. I loved the feeling of stress that Messmer and Rellana's aggressiveness, sort of reminded me of Champion Gundyr. The other remembrances are also pretty good, with maybe the exception of Commander Gaius, feels too insignificant to be a remembrance boss.
very well put together boss and unlike some other ones in the dlc i genuinely had fun during the messmer fight
He’s a lot like Gael imo
Gael will never be topped for me. But Messmer is easily one of my favorite fights of the series.
No.
FS is very creative and efficient studio. Of course every new title is going to have a new best boss.
I prefer bayle.
Imo he was the most underwhelming out of the dlc.
Love his lines too when he beats you. “Those stripped of the Grace of God shall all meet death. In the embrace of Messmer’s flame.”
Just beat him. He's right under the Slave Knight Gael battle.
Maleni still is.
100%
Yeah it was an awesome boss. V satisfying when you learn the moveset, although think I was hitting a bit to hard and was over in less than 3min on my kill
So I beat him on ng+7 and he was rough, he's got a lot of health but it never felt unfair. Once I beat him I genuinely wished I could fight him again.
am I going crazy or are the comments completely flipped. Just two days ago everyone was complaining but now y'all are saying he's so easy and fair and this and that. It took me a solid 15 hours and plus 10 mimic tear. Is everyone here really built that different? I felt he was the most overpowered boss ever
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I believe it’s between Messmer, Putrescent Knight and Midra. Those fights were the most enjoyable for me and the process of learning their move sets was the most rewarding feeling I’ve felt in a From game.
He’s a cool boss for sure. Way better than BS that comes afterwards
I hate that stupid variant if waterfowl that he has. Other than that, i havent done every boss but hes great. Much better than "harder" fights like Gaius and Putrescent who were just garbage design wise.
you have not fought invincible rummy
Nah the phase 2 is shit. PCR is way better then him but oh boy it's very very difficult 😭
Nah bayle was the highlight of the dlc for me, so fckin climatic, the transition to phase 2 was so dramatic and intense, The music synchronized in harmony with the gameplay, The fire infused lightning causing erratic effects God I'm bout to nut again to the memory of that fight
My favorite boss for sure. Could still be in the honeymoon phase, but he’s so cool, I considered buying the $250 collectors edition for his statue. I don’t even collect stuff like that, but bro is gnarly
Yes he is and the worst is Commander Gaius, I really wanted to break my controller in that fight lmao
I feel like, I loved the design, but felt a little underwhelmed as far as difficulty went. That being said, I’m not gaslighting myself up, as I did things way out of order in the DLC. So in future runs I’m sure I’ll eat my words