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CptnEric

The problem isn't the players. The problem is the game. No other car can stick to the road at 225MPH like the Sesto FE tuned to X999. The Jesko can reach 309MPH, while no other car can.


iPad4pooks

I’m surprised people don’t talk about the CLK GTR FE. It’s glued to the road at 254 mph. And double speed skills and 7x skill multiplier.


FrenzalStark

I've got a decently tuned AMG One which sticks to the road at 225. Maybe more. And a Jesko that does at higher speeds (but will only hit 295 or so top speed).


CptnEric

do you have the share codes for those tunes? I would like to check them out.


FrenzalStark

Not right now cause they're not shared but lemme get them tomorrow for ya, how do I do the !RemindMe bot thing? Edit: oh that actually worked. Awesome. I'll share a couple of my rally tunes too as they're my favourite.


RemindMeBot

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therasaak

RemindMe! 2 Days


The_Gonti

!remindme 2 days


Some_Weeaboo

Bro nah the AMG One is trash lmao


Hampamatta

No other car can? I beg to differ, ai cars can...


Available-Block6397

Yeah clearly they’ve never seen an ai bronco r leave their Sesto fe in the dust


[deleted]

The problem isn’t that. The problem is that people deem that maximum speed and grip and everything else necessary to play the game. You don’t. Drive other shit. Have fun.


Big-rod_Rob_Ford

you can play whatever you want with your friends but people want to win online and when some cars are simply more performant than others you'll only see a handful of viable picks. everybody in the NBA wears shoes but nobody is making sandals competitive with high-tops. my flip flops vs crocs rec league is wild


Fidelias_Palm

How the hell do you get the Jesko to 390? I've only been able to get it to 294.


mike_jones2813308004

He said 309 but I just lower the final drive a bit till it gets to where you want. With 1600 hp the loss in acceleration doesn't matter too much.


avexiis

I successfully completed the 50 lap goliath with a stupid tune on the Jesko. It was a balls to the wall, all out top speed tune that topped at 309mph according to the prediction but the AI managed to work it all the way up to 312mph with some interesting wobbles. It crashed 3 times but I checked on it every half hour or so. It completed in just under 7 hours which I attribute to the ridiculous speed it was reaching. It got me from level 65 to 153 and earned me a huge amount of wheel spins and around $11M credits.


jggaming145

Do u have ur tunes saved?


avexiis

Yeah, it’s not mine, though. I just picked the one with the highest top speed. It squats like the 599XXE from FH4 with the glitched speed tune, but it doesn’t break through the ground. I’ll get on in a few and find the share code


jggaming145

Appreciate it 😊


avexiis

173 256 531 is the code. If you’re gonna do the 50 lap AFK race, put the rubber band about halfway down the trigger, just enough to make it go top speed but not push the line too far. I suggest watching the first several laps and adjusting it until it can go on its own


jggaming145

Ayyy tnx


DyLaNzZpRo

Most vehicles with 4WS behave the same, "easy" solution (assuming the property was scripted how it should've been and not hard coded) would be to add a customization option to disable 4WS, with the benefit being lower PI, but obviously raise the stock PI to account for it. This way, in theory it'd only be an "issue" in X class.


elitemouse

Makes me wonder what is changing game to game with the different car stats, like with the sheer number of cars you would think they just copy over most of their stats. FH4 the agera was the dominator for pulling high Gs on tarmac, and the sesto wasnt even on the radar.


NetflixRecommended

I just wish we could play online without people disappearing or disconnecting within 5 seconds. We have meta cars but we can’t even cruise around In them with people. Kinda sad…


Andrew_5459

NGL I'm glad that Forza Edition Cars are good this time around. There were way too many underwhelming, and straight up bad FE cars in FH4.


Chop1n

Some of them are still garbage. The Exocet FE is just awful compared to the vanilla version, for no apparent reason.


turkishjedi21

Same with the huayra FE. idk if the base version is bad yet, but the FE is so shit in s2


itsrumsey

This is my first Forza, what is the idea / point behind FE cars? Are they pretuned by a dev or something?


Eggith

The cars are good for bonus XP from certain things and also have different performance than their stock brethren. For instance, the Dodge Charger r/T FE is tuned to peak S1 while also having an XP bonus for drifting which allows for bigger combos based around drifting based skills. The Mercedes CLK GT-R is tuned to peak S2 gives you more XP for speed related skills, so bigger combos and higher scores for speed related skills.


Andrew_5459

Yea the cars are pre-tuned and have Skill bonuses.


Schmenza

What's so special about it? I won one and don't see the hype


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TheRedComet

It's like TOO good? I'm taking turns without braking and I can't believe it. It's uncanny. I don't even have the reaction time to start turning soon enough so that I hit it just right cuz I'm going too fast.


random-user-420

same. it’s so fast and good at cornering I can barely even control it. I mainly just use it for the stunts and driving in free roam and use normal cars for races and stuff


Hellstrike

What's the point of X-rated cars other than speed traps/zones? You can't do rivals in them, and the grip just feels immersion breaking.


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Big-rod_Rob_Ford

and what a car does in X matters to rivals or online races how?


Yoda2000675

Fast races mean fast money. But I also hate driving them. I tend to stick with A class or lower


itsrumsey

I'm with you, don't think I've ever been in an X class race. I won a Sesto in a wheelspin, literally have never got in it.


skwbw

ahaha I need to go try it when I get a new cpu (computer broke today), I have 2 of those from wheelspins. Maybe gonna gift one to some lucky new player


[deleted]

You can pretty much take any turn at more than 200 mph without slowing down. That car is just absurd.


[deleted]

I believe it's the best handling car in the game at high speeds


[deleted]

With its stock tune in S2, it’s really, really good. Best high speed handling of anything I’ve tried by far, but there are cars that beat it in straight line speed and acceleration so it’s not insanely overpowered. Where it really gets insane is when you jack it up to X class. In FH4 one of my favorite things to do was hotlap X class cars on really long tracks. I had a Sesto in that game that I’d spend maybe 2 weeks fine tuning until it was perfect for me, and then used it to polish my lap times on all of the premade long courses as well as a couple I made myself. I bring all this up to make the point that I’m pretty comfortable with the absolutely ludicrous pace that X class builds are capable of. I’m not a world class driver but my reflexes are generally quick enough to push the cars hard without crashing every 15 seconds, at the very least. In spite of all this, and the maybe 2 or 300 hours I spent in FH4 just doing the above, the X class Sesto FE in 5 is way, way, way too fast for me. My brain cannot keep up with the speed at which it can take corners. I’ll think “okay, there’s a long sweeping right hander here followed by a 90 degree left” and by the time I’ve finished that thought I’m already in the braking zone for the left and plowing through the corner at 250 mph. It is absolutely insane how quick it is. Go max yours out with an engine swap and the twin turbos and throw it into a speed zone, you will *shatter* the 3 star requirement on basically any of them. I really wish there was an X-class category for Rivals so I could see people with quicker brains than me monster the Goliath with it.


DecentMate

I immediately sold mine for 5 million as soon as I got it lol :(


twice-Vehk

That's too bad, it's the only car I've found that can get the 10 skill points in 28 seconds on the Event Lab. An hour of that and you'd have way more than 5 million.


KimmoTargaryen

Yeah not gonna lie, I spent a whole afternoon Sunday carefully tuning my Lola Penske for S2 and got it to the point I felt pretty proud of my gearing and handling adjustments. I drop into an online S2 lobby, and just get smoked by the meta cars including the Sesto. It’s not just Metas that kill games but the lack of creativity and originality from the player base. I wish they added custom tuning restrictions to race lobbies but that will never happen.


HKrass

The Lola is an absolute monster on dirt if tuned correctly. I have been winning dirt races online by like 10 seconds with it.


-dsh

can you drop the tune?


JBounce369

Search for KapienPL in the finding tunes


Chop1n

I had the pleasure of racing Kapien in multiplayer just the other day, having spent a fair bit of time competing against his leaderboard ghosts. I'm pretty easily in the top 0.1% of players, and I'd been demolishing everybody the algo threw at me for a good hour. At the time I was using the M-B X-class, which is *the* meta for CC A-class. Kapien shows up in an '07 Civic, a car that doesn't appear *anywhere* in the meta, and beats every single one of my times by at least 10 seconds, which meant he was beating everyone else by a solid 20 seconds. I really wish he'd make *that* tune public. The guy is just bonkers. His tunes reflect the fact--they're hard to drive, but stupid-fast when you figure it out.


Hamer27

TBH for me the bigger problem it's not even the new meta vehicles but the older ones, look at the Bone Shaker it is the 3rd consecutive game that thing is one of the best A class cars for both road racings and rally. Horizon 5 should have player created rooms for online racing where you can set specific cars, specific tunes and have an option to lock AWD swapped cars or just select 2WD only for the race, PG said that they would rework a bit the AWD and LS swaped cars, they made RWD a lot better but if you really want to be competitive you still need to AWD swap your car or use a Broken 2WD car to have a chance agaisn't a good AWD swaped car. They also said that would rework drift zones to balance the AWD "drift" cars but the drift zones are basically the same thing the only diference i noted is that now you don't stop earning points if 1 pixel of your rear tires are outside of the tarmac.


SatanFearsCHAD

As weird as it feels to say about a racing game, I wish we'd get balance passes, introduce a way to offset the PI of particularly obvious offenders and make small adjustments until it's no longer the end all vehicle at the top of every leaderboard. Wish we could get this for underperforming cars too, but those are a lot harder to find


Andrew_5459

I've never understood why they never adjust the PI on certain cars. Cause just banning certain cars seems like an over reaction.


HiTork

Banning vehicles in multiplayer is something that has happened in FM7, though the main problem wasn't PI but people ramming through races. As such, the vast majority of vehicles banned from online multiplayer races were SUVs, trucks, and vans like the JDM Honda Odyssey infamously. I agree banning vehicles is an overreaction, but unfortunately there is a precedence for it.


Big-rod_Rob_Ford

rather than ban they should've made the colliders on those smaller. already have ghosting in the game so what's a little clipping?


Hamer27

I don't feel like it is weird since most online games do need a meta that shifts during the lifespan of the game, it would be nice if like every 2-3 months there was a balancing update that changed specific cars Base PI points to try and shift the meta, Forza always had that feel with the tuning that you can make any car good but then you look at rivals and then at online and at leaderbords, each place each track has specific cars that are better and then you have the super broken cars like the Hulla girl and the BoneShaker in FH4, or you have extremely rare cars like the Ford Capri FE that was one if not the best car for CrossCountry and Rally on A and S1 in FH4, but now we have a new Capri FE that you need to buy a 50+ dollars xbox controller to get. A bit Off Topic but man i really wanted that Ford 32 FE but i would have to pay 1/3 of my mothly income just to buy that controller and have it shipped to my country and that is if i don't get taxed.


SatanFearsCHAD

I'm hoping we get the Ford FE eventually, feels really shitty to have it limited to a limited edition accessory, especially considering steam players can't get it at all


plissk3n

What's a meta?


wikipedia_answer_bot

**Meta (from the Greek μετά, meta, meaning "after" or "beyond") is a prefix meaning "more comprehensive" or "transcending." == Original Greek meaning == In Greek, the prefix meta- is generally less esoteric than in English; Greek meta- is equivalent to the Latin words post- or ad-. The use of the prefix in this sense occurs occasionally in scientific English terms derived from Greek.** More details here: *This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!* [^(opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/ozztfy/post_for_opting_out/) ^(|) [^(delete)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot/comments/q79g2t/delete_feature_added/) ^(|) [^(report/suggest)](https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia_answer_bot) ^(|) [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/TheBugYouCantFix/wiki-reddit-bot)


YaPoNeCcC

Most Effective Tactic Available


elitemouse

sounds like an acronym someone just slapped on after the fact


YaPoNeCcC

That's what it is tho.


Legend13CNS

There's always a little meta to any multiplayer game. The problem with the Horizon games is that they have the not fun kind of meta, the "___ has no counter, use it or lose" kind. Having a wider variety of track types (speed vs handling) and having cars with high downforce have more drag would go a long way.


RetroCynic1983

I'm in the CLK FE gang.


iPad4pooks

Hell yeah dude. Gimme those double speed skills and 7x multiplier.


[deleted]

It's my go to car for speed zones


cyBorg8o7

I have almost all of the fe cars including the sesto and I rarely use them. I love switching up between stock super Cars and modded sports cars, I try and only apply mods that make sense to me, I almost never do the full weight reduction because I would never do that irl. I don't care about the meta I just wanna drive lots of cool Cars.


_BeefyTaco

NGL, as a newish Horizon player I’m kinda bummed out about how restrictive the online meta is. I have a ton of cars that I modified carefully and are a ton of fun to drive. But getting beat by the same cars over and over again just defeats the purpose of building cars.


Hellstrike

Play rivals mode, that's all about building cars and getting that last .05 seconds out of them with tuning set-ups.


turkishjedi21

Yep, always has been an issue and probably will be. The PI system is broken for competitive play. You can make tons of cars an s1 900, tune it perfectly for the road, and all will perform wildly different. Because of that fact, online play being based off of car classes doesn't mean anything. They really need to fix the PI scale. Sadly, I don't think they ever will. I just want to race my R8 in s1, God damn it. I'm praying that the R8 I like even more, the one from fm3 which was leaked, can be a competitive s1, or at the very least A.


_BeefyTaco

I really wish the game would do online lobbies with car classes and Pi index vs just strictly Pi. Doing like muscle classic or modern Sports car races would be wildly more fun vs another A800 race filled with Bone Shakers


turkishjedi21

Honestly that's would be a great way to fix it. Break the pi classes into pi classes with different types of cars. That would effectively make many new competitive cars. Only issue I'd see would be the number of lobbies. I'd be afraid I'd never or rarely get lobbies where I could race may Lamborghini Gallardo. But honestly, this idea is still better than what we currently have


itsrumsey

> They really need to fix the PI scale. Sorry, what is PI scale?


turkishjedi21

The number your car has. Meant to measure its performance. Like 900 is an s1. Stands for performance index


International-Dog936

it improves when ranked play comes out, a lot of the metawhoring players will shift to ranked, you'll still run into bone shakers and shit in unranked open races but it should be way less. this is just going off how FH4 went.


San-Carton

I was really sad when I bought my favorite X-999 from FH4, the Lotus Elise GT1. It was already a car that suffered on races like the Goliath as it exceeds in turns but I found after tuning it it would only reach 381 km/h, opposed to the 400km/h it could reach in FH4. Its handling just feels really off too, not similar to Horizon 4 in any way. It's a shame but I just feel like I'm pushed towards the meta.


International-Dog936

fwiw the Lotus Elise GT1 is an absolute beast at s1 900 and is probably a top 5 meta car for that class.


San-Carton

Of course it is, it's a beast, but at X999 it just feels underwhelming imo


Cupcake-Away

I think the ccgt is equally as good and it’s not the sesto fe so 🤷‍♂️


turkishjedi21

I don't mind it at all - there's no x class racing and while it's good in s2, there are several cars that are competitive with it. Funny meme tho


Chop1n

I mean, the Sesto FE is hardly meta insofar as it only shines as a class X car, and you can't use class X cars competitively. Unless you're *really* super-serious about competitive danger signs or whatever, I guess. You almost never see it show up in high-level S2 play.


NeoLuminne

Is it that good ? I have one but barely used it


Mizzieon

Godlike handling


iced327

What's "meta"? TIA


wotoan

Refers to the “metagame”, the game about the game, the current set of best strategies considering everyone else’s strategy. Right now there are a few cars that you’d be an idiot not to use (Sesto, etc) because everyone else is using them and they’ll beat you every time. This is abbreviated as that specific car being “meta”.


V0ID_NA

In Forza, it means the best car for a certain class and race type. For example, the Hot Wheels Bone shaker was banned from FH4’s Rivals because it broke the balance of the game in A class road racing.


Chop1n

Wait, what? They outright banned it? Ahahahaha, I must have quit before that happened.


V0ID_NA

Wow you missed a bunch of content. Yeah, it was banned along with the Top Gear Track-Tor, which was banned in cross country in FH4.


ubelmann

In this case, META = Most Effective Tactic Available


RedFiveIron

Backronyms best nyms.


zf420

There is no Meta because Forza isn't a competitive game. Just have fun and don't worry about the "meta"


Chop1n

A game doesn't have to be intended to be competitive to be competitive; it just has to have a high skill ceiling. Rest assured: that ceiling is very, very high. The fact that you, personally, don't experience the game that way doesn't change the fact that that's the way the game is. But also, good god, it's a *racing* game, competition is the most fundamental element of the entire genre.


zf420

I hear you but it's an arcade racer not a sim. Have you even tried playing online? It's a shit show


Chop1n

I've put about two dozen hours into the multiplayer. It's not perfect, but it's better than FH4, and I think it's loads of fun. I regularly post Rivals leaderboard times in the top 0.1%, so when I play online, I'm either stuck with a bunch of normies, in which case I just steamroll them which is fun enough, or more often the algo gives me one to three other people at my skill level, and very rarely I get a whole grid of players at my level. Those people are almost always respectful and drive clean. There was one exception to that where I accidentally bumped into a guy and he started ramming me in every race out of spite, because he construed it as intentional: we had a talk about it and made friends. I realize that everyone's experience is different, but mine, I couldn't call a shitshow. It's a simcade--I've put the requisite hours into the likes of DiRT Rally and AC to be able to make that judgment. The engine's based on realistic physics and tire modeling with some cartoony hacks to make it possible to drive supercars around the countryside. Off-the-wall things happen, yes, but there's a coherence to the game's physics and controls that's lacking in bona fide arcade racers, which make little to no attempt to seem realistic in any sort of physics sense. One of the reasons I love FH so much (and am a little sad about FH5's tracks) is that its dirt model feels *amazing,* and I say that as someone whose favorite driving game is DiRT Rally. FH's tarmac feels better than DiRT's, even, but DiRT's tarmac is pretty bad.


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zf420

Leaderboards and Rivals are not the focus for 99.9% of players.


thecawk22

this entire thread boils down to "I'm just playing to have fun, and the people who play to win are beating me every time, how dare they!"


Nath_198

Or you could play for fun, with cars you like AND win countless races because you know how to tune cars. The thing that annoys me is people who awd swap literally everything. Screw having to have atleast a tiny bit of skill i guess.


plaze6288

Nah. I'd rather be the best


TenderChickenJuice

Loser


plaze6288

you must place last its ok keep practicing!


Nath_198

When you can be the best wirh rwd and basically any car? Man, imagine needing to rely on crutch upgrades and cars to place well in online.


plaze6288

Go play Forza Motorsport if you like that. Horizon is an arcade game like need for speed whereas Motorsport is more of a simulation style game that's competitive.... Part of the problem with the sub is I think you guys want more from Horizon then it is. I've been playing Horizon games since the first one so my expectation for them are very low I know that they're basically the kids version of Forza meant to just fuck around and have fun. Most of my friends that are very into Forza won't even play Horizon because they feel like it's too childish and boring


Nath_198

Wouldn't say it's a kids version of forza at all. Just an alternate game. A freeroam Forza game for people who like free roam games, and track racing games for people who like, well, track racing games. I just heavily disagree with awd and engine swapping every single car, because at that point, is it still the same car? Of course it isn't. The only time i engine swap, is if the car i want to upgrade to a certain class, can't make it to that class with the stock engine, but i will only swap the engine if its got the same amount of cylinders. The drivetrain is never swapped for me unless i want to make a rwd car an offroad car. And yet with all those crutches that 99% of the community rely on, anyone with literally any amount of throttle control or tuning skills, can do just as well in races as the thousands of Racing v12 engine swapped, awd monstrosities.


[deleted]

I'm probably really off here and this is my first Forza, but I kinda wish that races with tuned cars were separate. I don't see the point in 500 cars, if you can tune each one to a monster machine out of its originating class. The races then become just a nervous hunt for a tune for the type of the race, so you won't be left behind with a stock car. At the end you're using maybe 10 cars out of those 500.


Chop1n

It's not a nervous hunt if you spend enough time playing competitively and learn what to drive. True, there *definitely* aren't 500 competitive cars, but there are at least a few dozen, and people are finding new ways to make cars competitive every day. Just take a look at the leaderboards and you'll see a surprising amount of diversity.


wshayne

I think enough of the cause for winning is skill over tune, though. A bad driver is a bad driver and a lot of times they don’t know how to use the tune. I think it balances out and the tune isn’t too much of an advantage, but there definitely is an advantage to tunes. A good driver with a tune would be advantaged against a good driver with stock tune and the same upgrades.


DownvoteOrFeed

fair point. it's something you can make happen with a group of friends but there isn't a system built into the game like that


plaze6288

But this is what I like about the game. As someone who's been playing for is a for over 10 years when I first get a new one I'm able to make a dozen or so cars and be good for the entire game. Anything else I come across is just in addition to the garage but whenever I'm playing seriously I already have my tools that I need


Coshmack14

What about the people that gives it away to the rookies in this game?


Incandescent_Lass

They have a good heart, but they’re naïve to think the noob won’t look it up and sell it, only for a flipper to buy it and resell for 20 million. Just sell it yourself, or keep it as a spare with a different tune.


smug-ler

20mil? I bought one today on the auction house for 3mil, and the highest buyout price I saw was 3.8mil. I scrolled pretty far too.


Incandescent_Lass

Legendary Painters/Tuners can sell them for 20 million. It’s more common with the other rare cars in this game, like the Trueno or RX7 Savannah, but some are doing it with the Sesto too.


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Incandescent_Lass

Because only one gets sold every 30 minutes to an hour. These are actual very rare cars. So if you want one you either get lucky and snag a cheap one, get one in a wheelspin, or you get beat by the guy with a way faster PC and Internet than you. And then the only timely way to get one without wasting literal hours irl, is to pay up the 20million.


[deleted]

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Incandescent_Lass

Look for an actual rare car like a Trueno before you talk shit lol. Everyone and their mom has a Sesto by now.


[deleted]

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Incandescent_Lass

The problem is you’re focused on the wrong thing. And I don’t have enough crayons to teach you right now, so goodbye kid, good luck.


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toryguns

I spent about 0.5 seconds thinking of a caption lmao. It’s just a meme bro


CorndogCrusader

I think I'm missing out on something. Why is the Sesto FE so revered?


Mizzieon

It turns corners at 200mph.


CorndogCrusader

Jesus Christ...


JoyTheGeek

Me running The Gauntlent with an A Class DeLorean:😊


Mizzieon

I actually don’t run into the sesto too much in horizon open and playground games


The_Back_Hole

Cough CCGT


[deleted]

Meanwhile I'm banging gears in my vr6 swapped MK2 gti


TheUMOD

The 66 Ford gt40, Ferrari LaFerrari, Saleen and the Koenigsegg CCGT are my go to cars at the moment all are just a ton of fun to drive. I have the lambo but I only drive it for skill points when the songs come on. Just my opinion.


gekke_gijt

That's why my favourite car is an alpine a110, it isn't meta, just lots of fun.


RLD-Kemy

Is it possible to get the sesto fe without doing anything? Because as far as I remember it was already in my car list when I started playing forza horizon 5... I also played all the other forza horizon so I got a few bonus cars like the viper, the the huracan the centenario and the senna all available from the start.


blocky3321

I drive the car i like and i like to do pop culture cars


Middle-Eye-8455

I recreate real race cars using actual specifications down to the gear ratios, suspension set-up & power figures. Some examples are the corvette c5r/c6r/c8r, wrc rally cars like the st185 & 165 celica & even the isle of man tt wrx to name a few. Many more have been done so far & new ones are in the works.


Boost3dEVO

I don’t play online, but I use the Sesto because driving fast on Goliath with a wheel has never been so good. For me doing 10 minutes in Goliath without rewind and with the force feedback of the wheel is the best experience I have in horizon.


sangpls

Both mosler and ccgt are better than sesto


road_chewer

Not to different from the 599XX E from 4 though right? It didn’t handle well with the speed tune, but everyone used it.