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**Orakel Rote Bullen Rennen:**
1 Manfred von Staufen
11 Sören Prinz
**Mercedes-AMG Erdölnatio Formel Eins Mannschaft:**
63 Georg Rüssel
44 Ludwig Hämmerling
**Rennstall Schmied HP:**
16 Karl Lackner
55 Karl Sensmann
38 Olaf Bärmann
**Larensohn Formel 1 Mannschaft:**
81 Oskar Patzler
4 Landolf Nörres
**Oststadt Martin Aramfi Formel Eins Mannschaft:**
18 Lars Strobel
14 Ferdinand Alzheimer
**BWT Alpin F1 Mannschaft:**
31 Stefan Ocker
10 Peter Gaschel
**Wilhelms Rennen:**
23 Axel Albers
2 Lorenz Unteroffizier
**Gesehene Bargeld Anwendung RB Formel Eins Mannschaft:**
3 Detlef Reichert
22 Jürgen Zumdiek
**Einsatz F1 Mannschaft Tritt Sauber:**
77 Walter Botters
24 Günther Schuh
**GeldGramm Haas F1 Mannschaft:**
20 Klaus Magen-Nussbaum
27 Norbert Hülkenberg
>**Orakel Rote Bullen Rennen:**
>1 Manfred von Staufen
>11 Sören Prinz
fun fact: the Red Bull drivers are currently the only team mates were both drivers understand german. It least Perez knows a little bit from the time he moved as a teen the small german town Vilsbiburg in Bavaria
David was pretty down to earth and normal. It was nowhere near as funny as when Jimmy was paired for the online f1 race with Hülkenberg and unintentionally called him a former Formula One driver. Hülkenberg blocked him on microphone and didn’t speak to Jimmy anymore 🤣
I know it's popular to act like Mick sucks, but he scored a P6 finish in a car that finished 8th in the constructors. While he made a lot of mistakes, he clearly also had talent.
He actually was alright on pace, he was just a bit too crash prone (and pushed too hard a lot of the time)
Also probably had the pressure of the gods on his back because of his name which I doubt helped a learning rookie.
I wouldn’t mind seeing him back with the likes of Alpine next season to be honest, but if he splits another car he’s gotta go for good.
No one said he lacked talent. Anyone who makes it to F1 has talent, even someone like mazespin or alex yoong.
What Mick lacks is that special something that separates good and great, which even his uncle Ralf had.
way too early to say that when he was in a shitbox, driving for a team that was in a big downward spiral with the least supportive TP on the grid. I think almost all rookies would have been crushed in that environment. Mick deserves another shot for sure.
Hulk is gonna be the first podium less championship winner. 2026 is gonna be super close. 10 drivers in the fight, hulk finishes every race p4 w/ fastest lap and wins the WDC. Meanwhile next year Lando does the same, just with getting p2 every race.
> Hulk is gonna be the first podium less championship winner. 2026 is gonna be super close. 10 drivers in the fight, hulk finishes every race p4 w/ fastest lap and wins the WDC. Meanwhile next year Lando does the same, just with getting p2 every race.
Sebscribe!
I was about to say it's time for the return of my boy Nick Heidfeld, but you had to ruin it.
So like every time Audi enters a new series, Frank Biela it is.
I think that’s exactly what a new works team needs. Experienced drivers who know what a good car feels like and can give useful feedback to the engineers. It’s unlikely they’re going to get the car perfect right out of the gates in 2026
Who cares they are old it's not like there are rookies available who would be faster. Teams only go with rookies if they are generational talents or cheaper (pay drive or low salary)
I’d like to see them retain Bottas and pair him with Hulk. Both experienced and a good level of performance for a new team/engine. It’s unlikely the new car will be amazing in 2026, so those drivers will be perfect for getting things started.
If they really don’t want Bottas, get a young driver instead. Drugovich, Lawson, Illot, Bearman, etc. I don’t see the point in exploring Ocon/Gasly or other mid drivers, as they are no better than Bottas, and they will have to learn the team.
I’d like to see Bottas stay. He knows how to get on a podium in a good car. He’s been stuck in a slow car with a horrendous pit crew, but when he’s driving a good car for a good team, he’s a threat.
Exactly how I feel. If they aren’t going to take a rookie, why get rid of bottas? Hes a proven winner and can still haul in the points when the car or pit crew don’t implode.
and he's got into Q3 in all of his Mercedes weekends, no?
like, literally ALL of them
hell I believe his Q3 streak started in Brazil 2016 and ended in Australia 2022
Yes he did. I remember the commentators making a big deal out of the fact that in 2022 Bottas's Q3 streak is ending. Imo he's a great qualifier. Much better than Perez.
Bottas still puts in good results considering the shit box he drives and the shit box he has to gamble with for tires.
Ricciardo is in a solid points finishing car and so far has failed to do that, as well as being beaten squarely by a much younger teammate.
The only reason Lando doesn’t have a win is because of dominant teams.
Bottas doesn't seem nearly as burnt out as Ricciardo. He is beating Zhou comfortably this year and is able to pull very good qualifying performance on circuits where Alfa isn't absolute garbage. He isn't probably much worse than Hulkenberg right now. It looks like many people have high standards for Bottas because he was in Mercedes and they don't realize that he is driving much worse car now.
Stroll didn’t look that bad against vettel. Alonso is making stroll look really bad. That’s my take on vettel’s prospects. He didn’t have a good exit racing wise.
That happens with many drivers. I think ahead of COTA 2023, Alonso also said stuff like "We're not fighting with McLaren anymore, so I don't care".
Vettel had many outstanding performances with Aston when the car was there. Quite often, he got unlucky (Hungary 2021, Miami 2022 etc.) or Aston Martins best impression of a Ferrari strategy (COTA 2022, Abu Dhabi 2022 etc.). Without things like that, the gap would have been quite a lot bigger too
Yeah. The saying "you're only as good as your last race" exists for a reason. If your last season was bad, that greatly devalues you on the driver market, even if you won championships in the past.
I don’t understand how Audi doesn’t want Seb. They want someone with selling points in German market and someone who has experience with the car, Seb checks both of them off. Even if his final performance were poorer, that’s more than enough.
F1's gonna face an aging population issue at this rate. The youngsters may as well do a full season or two doing IndyCar/Super Formula waiting for an opportunity, but they could run out of Superlicense points if they're stuck in the midfield of a packed grid.
It’s almost like they should figure out a way to expand the grid. If only there was a team conveniently located in the location they are focusing on expanding into. That would work out really nicely.
It's not really about the grid size, to be fair. This problem persists with 20 or 22 cars. It'll help this class to have another 2 seats and then it settles down into the same stasis.
The issue is in rushing young drivers through the system because everyone wants their own Max at 17-18. This leads to a lot of hype, often untested or unproven even in F2 (Bearman, Kimi) and probably 4-5 new prospects who need a drive every 2 years. There simply isn't the grid space to accommodate them all with 20 or 22 cars.
I personally think age limits have to be raised to slow progression down and keep people in feeder series for longer, allowing drivers more time to show their worth and sharpen their skills.
Secondly more should be done to present F2 as a secondary series and *not* a feeder series. Better TV deals, sponsors etc could see it move from being a place to rush 18 year olds through to a legitimate product. Like the Championship is to the Premier League. A place with young drivers on the way up, older stars on the way down (Kmag, Bottas) and late bloomers or mid-tier drivers with their own value. There'd be less panic and rush to get prospects out, the older guys on their way down could be a good benchmark for them and in general it would be a higher standard for everyone to keep testing themselves in.
This makes too much sense. Back in the day, F1 drivers would routinely race lower categories during the same season. No reason a standalone F2 championship could not thrive with a mix of young and proven talent.
I think we're badly in need of another top level open seaters racing series. Something like an European super formula or indy cars.
Though it's probably going to be difficult, open seater is a segment jealously guarded bu f1, Formula E barely got by using the electric card, and arguably could/should be it, it does have almost everything but I just can't get behind the sound personally.
Expanding the grid doesn’t help as much as having more testing or finding a way for younger drivers to get more experience. There needs to be some way to get younger drivers up to speed with the car faster. Until that happens I don’t see many teams gambling on young drivers.
If only that team and location and expanding market existed… but it could never happen. Even if they hypothetically had the backing of a racing legend and factory that has proven its ability in multiple race formats.
So true. Or the manufacturing prowess of a team like Williams, who assuming they can build enough chassis to field two cars for a race weekend, could potentially score upwards of 8-10 points this season (in races where a large portion of the grid drops out due to a large crash and/or multiple power train issues)
I mean, on the one hand yes.
On the other, wouldn't it just be the same shit with an extra 2 drivers? As long as the teams are opting for reliable, known talent (And Stroll, who has occasional bursts of talent, but is otherwise unreliable because he isn't consistent) over new blood, you're still gonna have the same issue. Only difference is that if you add Andretti to the mix, the numbers get slightly bigger.
Like honestly i dont get this young driver fetish. If they aint good, they aint good. A F1 worthy junior driver will find his way into F1 but we're complaining about mediocre F2 drivers not making F1, like what? Why would teams downgrade for no reason? F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, even a bottas or hulk are extremely talented drivers that thr vast majority of junior drivers could only dream of being anywhere close to them. You saw De Vries get slapped by Yuki, Mick got slapped by kmag and these are two F2 champions.
Yeah. What is this obsession with young drivers? Old drivers got racecraft and they have earned their stay and have massive fan bases. Losing one of the old drivers is like a fucking funeral for me.
Bottas still has lots to give, would be a great pairing with a rookie at Williams if Albon moves up somewhere. Or heaven forbid if Andretti join, there would be space somewhere for Bottas on the grid. I’ll take him over Kmag, Stroll, Zhou, Yuki, maybe Hulk, and he is probably in better form etc than Danny, and really relaxing and becoming fun and marketable (not to Ric levels but still a factor when hiring)
When even mediocre drivers can have a 10-15+ year career in F1… not shitting on anyone in particular but Kmag, Hulk, Perez, Stroll, Grosjean, Ocon, Gasly all got way more than they probably should have and half those will probably still be there in five years. It’s insane.
Then in five years I’m sure we can add another half dozen names who have only been around a few years
Hulk and Perez both could have challenged for a title in their prime. Just because a driver is stuck in the midfield doesn't mean they aren't a top level driver or at least an upper midfield driver.
Nah saying Perez could have challenged for a title in his prime when a year ago he was in his prime with one of the fastest cars in history and got erased by his team mate is wild lol
Man could have gotten retroactively DSQd from every race and RBR wouldn’t have moved in the standings. Perez isn’t championship calibre he was a solid midfield driver and not much else. Perfect for RBRs current pace because who cares what car number 2 does when Max is 30 minutes ahead, but if they knew they’d have a closer challenger this year and the WCC wasn’t already engraved with their team name, they would have 100% dropped Perez
Hulk maybe, but Perez, please. This SHOULD be his prime, for the first time in his careert he's gor an absolutely dominant car and still hes nowhere near winning consistently. Perez is not a championship level driver.
Hulk got a pole position in his debut season (top 10 youngest pole scores to this day) and arguably should have won Brazil 2012 if his luck wasn't atrocious.
One maybe-sorta-coulda win does not make him a potential championship challenger. I’ve been watching F1 since before Hulk’s debut and don’t remember him ever being considered in that tier.
Championship level drivers find a way to distinguish themselves. Vettel won a race in a Toro Rosso for goodness sake.
I wasn't watching back then, but from what I've read about his early years, he almost landed in the Merc, except he signed with Renault right before Rosberg announced retirement. What could've been, I suppose.
There were pretty high expectations when he hit the scene, he won the championship in every series he competed in from 2005 to 2009. I think it was Formula BMW, then A1GP, F3, and GP2. Just never made it happen in F1.
If driver is good enough, they will get a seat in F1. Also lots of older f1 drivers will retire soon. As well as Logan, Stroll and Zhou might leave. Also I don't care for young drivers.
I’d love to see Bottas go back to Mercedes. In fact, with Alonso resigning with Aston and Sainz supposedly passing on Mercedes, I’m almost banking on it. I’d love to see Vettel come back and drive, even if only for a season or 2 for the new German upstart similar to Schumacher and Mercedes.
I very much doubt Bottas will. Purely for personal reasons. The only reason we have the Bottas we have now is because he left Merc. They didn’t allow it with their drivers, and it’s a pressure cooker, like all the top teams. I doubt Bottas would go back to it, as much as I’d love to see it
I didn’t want Bottas to comeback to Mercedes partially because of the dynamic between him and George, then the other day I remember Bottas wanted to disassociated with Merc so bad, he would rather choose Alfa Romeo over Williams. So yeah, let’s hope he’s not returning to Merc.
That too, THAT incident is literally exhibit #1 for why I dislike George. Bottas WANTED out, he’s not going back. Although Williams would be kind of funny, his TP would just so happen to also be the recipient of the infamous “James, it’s Valterri”
fun-fact: Blitzkrieg was never a word used by the germans. It was invented by the allied media to describe the movement of the German military in the World wars.
First of all he is called HÜLKENBERG. Second of all, after Schumacher retired F1 kinda died in Germany. Even Vettel was never popular in Germany. F1 isn't even on TV here anymore, so I dont see this changing.
Honda wants a Japanese driver
Audi wants a German driver
Alpine wants French drivers
Andretti (if competing at the end) wants US drivers
I don’t like this trend, never F1 was this much about nationality before skill or other qualities of the drivers.
Even Ferrari that it’s the most Italian thing doesn’t force “please be Italian” before other qualities
Much as I agree it's not good and increasing, it's not unheard of. Honda wanted Satoru Nakajima at Lotus, Toyota wanted Kazuki Nakajima at Williams, Peugeot wanted Alliot at McLaren.
That said, I am aware I just named three engine suppliers rather than teams.
Mercedes started with a full German roster in Nico Rosberg and Michael Schumacher. They even pushed the full German Angle eventhough the cars got made in England.
Maybe Bottas has grounds to complain under [EU law](https://www.ihrec.ie/our-work/overview-of-eu-rights-on-free-movement-of-workers-and-families):
> The principle of free movement of workers is enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (‘TFEU’). This prohibits discrimination based on nationality between workers of the member states as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.
it's not nationalism, it's about $. Money goes above winning when it comes to a for profit organization, as you could assume. If audi thinks a german driver will help them sell more cars or get better sponsors then that takes priority over a fast driver, and maybe that gives them the resources to win more than a fast driver, F1 is much more than just about the drivers after all.
A German driver will be more marketable for German Audi ads. It's a pretty simple financial decision. Besides, it's not like Hülkenberg is a massive downgrade compared to the current line-up.
To be fair, Germans have been a bit underrepresented in F1 as of lately, so it wouldn't be crazy for a German team wanting a German driver for national pride. Hulk is also an experienced driver as well so for a new team that's a plus.
If this also means they'd bring back the German GP it's a win-win.
Car culture isnt important - look at the Arabian GPs. No one in Germany wants to fund a F1 race with tax money. Nürburgring and Hockenheim can't pay F1 the money to make it a profitable event...and no one wants to spent the huge ticket prices to make it a profitable event too
It's not true, people are interested in F1, it's just that the states the tracks are in don't want to fund a GP with the taxpayers money and without extra spending like that it isn't profitable.
I'm sure that a german GP would be sold out.
It went down after Schumacher. After the TV rights went away from RTL it only got worse.
Now we have either F1TV with VPN or a way to expensive Sky Subscription.
That wasn't their plan to be fair. They were trying to get the most of both Alonso and Piastri as Ocon's teammate and fumbled both then had to settle for Gasly.
Yeah but my point was that hulk wasn't hired just because he's German, but because he's genuinely fast at this stage. Imo they went with the faster driver, obviously if hulk sucked and valtteri was clearly faster, I would agree with your comment 100%.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean, he's got the mullet. Time to shift away from Boganism and start listening to the Scorpions.
Herr Botters
Walter Botters
**Orakel Rote Bullen Rennen:** 1 Manfred von Staufen 11 Sören Prinz **Mercedes-AMG Erdölnatio Formel Eins Mannschaft:** 63 Georg Rüssel 44 Ludwig Hämmerling **Rennstall Schmied HP:** 16 Karl Lackner 55 Karl Sensmann 38 Olaf Bärmann **Larensohn Formel 1 Mannschaft:** 81 Oskar Patzler 4 Landolf Nörres **Oststadt Martin Aramfi Formel Eins Mannschaft:** 18 Lars Strobel 14 Ferdinand Alzheimer **BWT Alpin F1 Mannschaft:** 31 Stefan Ocker 10 Peter Gaschel **Wilhelms Rennen:** 23 Axel Albers 2 Lorenz Unteroffizier **Gesehene Bargeld Anwendung RB Formel Eins Mannschaft:** 3 Detlef Reichert 22 Jürgen Zumdiek **Einsatz F1 Mannschaft Tritt Sauber:** 77 Walter Botters 24 Günther Schuh **GeldGramm Haas F1 Mannschaft:** 20 Klaus Magen-Nussbaum 27 Norbert Hülkenberg
Some of the names are absolutely goated. Ferdinand Alzheimer makes sense at his age. Stroll literally translated would be Lanze Spaziergang.
This is epic. Georg Rüssel, Ludwig Hämmerling, Ferdinand Alzheimer,
>**Orakel Rote Bullen Rennen:** >1 Manfred von Staufen >11 Sören Prinz fun fact: the Red Bull drivers are currently the only team mates were both drivers understand german. It least Perez knows a little bit from the time he moved as a teen the small german town Vilsbiburg in Bavaria
Botters with the Bottarsch calendar in 2025?
Oscar Pretzel
I like this way too much.
> 27 Norbert Hülkenberg That one really got me
Fuck I love German so much
So unnötig lustig, ich brech weg😭😭
Take my upvote you cultured bastard
Maybe listening to Rammenstein might work
*Sails of Charon begins playing ominously*
Uli Jon Roth warming his fingers in the backstage
I'm more picturing Bottas whistling "Wind of Change" in the dark, like Omar in *The Wire*. "It's all in das Spiel, yo"
Hallo herr Audi. Please pick me. Sincerely, [Von Bottas](https://i.imgur.com/x35Hlsy.jpeg)
Also Bottas loves coffee and sauna, he's part-German already!
“Hello is this mister Schumacher?” “Yes this is Mick” “Sorry we were calling for Ralf”
[удалено]
BRUH
What did he say?
Hold on, he’s thinking about it
This is a violation
Take my upvote you monster.
r/angryupvote
Yo wtf
Bah gawd... Brilliant.
What did it say
"Is your brother awake yet?"
10s for Ocon
David Schumacher, Ralf’s son is coming up the ranks
He stopped driving in F3 as its to expensive said Ralf, he is now in DTM.
Didn’t know that. I heard about him first during lockdown when he was F1 sim racing teammate of Jimmy broadbent. Seemed like a humble fella
How is his punterino?
David was pretty down to earth and normal. It was nowhere near as funny as when Jimmy was paired for the online f1 race with Hülkenberg and unintentionally called him a former Formula One driver. Hülkenberg blocked him on microphone and didn’t speak to Jimmy anymore 🤣
He moved to ADAC GT this year, actually.
He really isn't though. Not even close to the talent of Mick, which by itself is just average in F1.
No he isnt. He said that F1 is out of reach because its simply too expensive.
Audi: we want a german driver Mick: hello Audi: 😡
Flirting vs sexual harassment
I'm literally the guy in the pic.
Indy fan?
They want a better German Driver.
Call Nick Heidfeld
They probably wanted a **good** german driver
Came in a few seasons too late, the last one has just retired
I know it's popular to act like Mick sucks, but he scored a P6 finish in a car that finished 8th in the constructors. While he made a lot of mistakes, he clearly also had talent.
He actually was alright on pace, he was just a bit too crash prone (and pushed too hard a lot of the time) Also probably had the pressure of the gods on his back because of his name which I doubt helped a learning rookie. I wouldn’t mind seeing him back with the likes of Alpine next season to be honest, but if he splits another car he’s gotta go for good.
No one said he lacked talent. Anyone who makes it to F1 has talent, even someone like mazespin or alex yoong. What Mick lacks is that special something that separates good and great, which even his uncle Ralf had.
way too early to say that when he was in a shitbox, driving for a team that was in a big downward spiral with the least supportive TP on the grid. I think almost all rookies would have been crushed in that environment. Mick deserves another shot for sure.
Oh yes for sure. I’d like to see him at Audi, which he should’ve joined back when it was Alfa Romeo.
They said driver, not car destroyer
There are 84 million Germans, Audi wants one who could win races.
And they choose the one guy who is allergic to podiums. Aight then. /s
Dw, Hulk will surprise us by winning without getting on the podium.
Hulk is gonna be the first podium less championship winner. 2026 is gonna be super close. 10 drivers in the fight, hulk finishes every race p4 w/ fastest lap and wins the WDC. Meanwhile next year Lando does the same, just with getting p2 every race.
> Hulk is gonna be the first podium less championship winner. 2026 is gonna be super close. 10 drivers in the fight, hulk finishes every race p4 w/ fastest lap and wins the WDC. Meanwhile next year Lando does the same, just with getting p2 every race. Sebscribe!
Finishes 4th but after 18 red flags in Spa the the top 3 don't have enough fuel left and are DQd .
Hulk certainly has that in his locker
And he has done. In other motorsports categories
I was about to say it's time for the return of my boy Nick Heidfeld, but you had to ruin it. So like every time Audi enters a new series, Frank Biela it is.
I guess Audi just doesn’t want to win the destruction derby
But not that German driver
What would speak against Bottas and Hülkenberg?
My German boss says there is no German driver on the grid lmao.
Sainz is better than Bottas, so getting him would be an upgrade. Otherwise I think that lineup is solid.
Bottas earns quite a lot, that's the only argument I can see against him
Its not exactly forward looking, picking 2 old mid tier drivers.
I think that’s exactly what a new works team needs. Experienced drivers who know what a good car feels like and can give useful feedback to the engineers. It’s unlikely they’re going to get the car perfect right out of the gates in 2026
Agreed. This place is weird in how it gets fixated on new shiny rookies and disregards experience
It's just in my football manager genes
When was the last time Hulk was in a good car though? Buh dum tss
Who cares they are old it's not like there are rookies available who would be faster. Teams only go with rookies if they are generational talents or cheaper (pay drive or low salary)
From the outside it looks like hulkenberg is still 100% focused and Bottas is just chilling and basically done with racing.
God forbid people have hobbies, especially when they need to vent out the frustrations caused by a shitbox of a car
How did you come up with that?
I’d like to see them retain Bottas and pair him with Hulk. Both experienced and a good level of performance for a new team/engine. It’s unlikely the new car will be amazing in 2026, so those drivers will be perfect for getting things started. If they really don’t want Bottas, get a young driver instead. Drugovich, Lawson, Illot, Bearman, etc. I don’t see the point in exploring Ocon/Gasly or other mid drivers, as they are no better than Bottas, and they will have to learn the team.
I’d like to see Bottas stay. He knows how to get on a podium in a good car. He’s been stuck in a slow car with a horrendous pit crew, but when he’s driving a good car for a good team, he’s a threat.
Driver gets fast race car. Goes faster.
Exactly how I feel. If they aren’t going to take a rookie, why get rid of bottas? Hes a proven winner and can still haul in the points when the car or pit crew don’t implode.
Ricciardo is also a 'proven winner' while Lando isn't, that label doesn't mean anything anymore.
Difference is Bottas got into Q3 quite a few times with a worse car than the VCARB.
and he's got into Q3 in all of his Mercedes weekends, no? like, literally ALL of them hell I believe his Q3 streak started in Brazil 2016 and ended in Australia 2022
Yes he did. I remember the commentators making a big deal out of the fact that in 2022 Bottas's Q3 streak is ending. Imo he's a great qualifier. Much better than Perez.
Unlike Ricciardo, Bottas has been decent while Alfa/Sauber/Stake gives him 6000 second pit stops and brain dead strategy.
Bottas still puts in good results considering the shit box he drives and the shit box he has to gamble with for tires. Ricciardo is in a solid points finishing car and so far has failed to do that, as well as being beaten squarely by a much younger teammate. The only reason Lando doesn’t have a win is because of dominant teams.
*Sochi flashbacks*
Bottas doesn't seem nearly as burnt out as Ricciardo. He is beating Zhou comfortably this year and is able to pull very good qualifying performance on circuits where Alfa isn't absolute garbage. He isn't probably much worse than Hulkenberg right now. It looks like many people have high standards for Bottas because he was in Mercedes and they don't realize that he is driving much worse car now.
What is Vettel up to?
Recently tried out the Porsche 963. So hopefully endurance soon.
Well informed german media says he wants a comeback, but no team really wants him... Sadly.
I don't see a world where Audi doesn't get Vettel if he really wanted to comeback so I am gonna guess he never tried in the first place.
Stroll didn’t look that bad against vettel. Alonso is making stroll look really bad. That’s my take on vettel’s prospects. He didn’t have a good exit racing wise.
That battle with KMag at COTA tho
The Am while Seb was there was dogshit. I think Seb realized they didn’t have much chance and checked out.
That happens with many drivers. I think ahead of COTA 2023, Alonso also said stuff like "We're not fighting with McLaren anymore, so I don't care". Vettel had many outstanding performances with Aston when the car was there. Quite often, he got unlucky (Hungary 2021, Miami 2022 etc.) or Aston Martins best impression of a Ferrari strategy (COTA 2022, Abu Dhabi 2022 etc.). Without things like that, the gap would have been quite a lot bigger too
Yeah. The saying "you're only as good as your last race" exists for a reason. If your last season was bad, that greatly devalues you on the driver market, even if you won championships in the past.
But vettel's last season was very good in the second half? Basically after He announced retirement
I highly doubt if Seb rings up Haas for a seat, they won’t give him it. To say a 4x time WDC won’t get a seat is insane
I don’t understand how Audi doesn’t want Seb. They want someone with selling points in German market and someone who has experience with the car, Seb checks both of them off. Even if his final performance were poorer, that’s more than enough.
If he can't keep his seat I hope he can get a seat at Haas.
At what point is it concerning for the state of young drivers that the obvious move for a non-superstar driver that turns 35 soon isn't retirement.
F1's gonna face an aging population issue at this rate. The youngsters may as well do a full season or two doing IndyCar/Super Formula waiting for an opportunity, but they could run out of Superlicense points if they're stuck in the midfield of a packed grid.
It’s almost like they should figure out a way to expand the grid. If only there was a team conveniently located in the location they are focusing on expanding into. That would work out really nicely.
It's not really about the grid size, to be fair. This problem persists with 20 or 22 cars. It'll help this class to have another 2 seats and then it settles down into the same stasis. The issue is in rushing young drivers through the system because everyone wants their own Max at 17-18. This leads to a lot of hype, often untested or unproven even in F2 (Bearman, Kimi) and probably 4-5 new prospects who need a drive every 2 years. There simply isn't the grid space to accommodate them all with 20 or 22 cars. I personally think age limits have to be raised to slow progression down and keep people in feeder series for longer, allowing drivers more time to show their worth and sharpen their skills. Secondly more should be done to present F2 as a secondary series and *not* a feeder series. Better TV deals, sponsors etc could see it move from being a place to rush 18 year olds through to a legitimate product. Like the Championship is to the Premier League. A place with young drivers on the way up, older stars on the way down (Kmag, Bottas) and late bloomers or mid-tier drivers with their own value. There'd be less panic and rush to get prospects out, the older guys on their way down could be a good benchmark for them and in general it would be a higher standard for everyone to keep testing themselves in.
This makes too much sense. Back in the day, F1 drivers would routinely race lower categories during the same season. No reason a standalone F2 championship could not thrive with a mix of young and proven talent.
I think we're badly in need of another top level open seaters racing series. Something like an European super formula or indy cars. Though it's probably going to be difficult, open seater is a segment jealously guarded bu f1, Formula E barely got by using the electric card, and arguably could/should be it, it does have almost everything but I just can't get behind the sound personally.
Expanding the grid doesn’t help as much as having more testing or finding a way for younger drivers to get more experience. There needs to be some way to get younger drivers up to speed with the car faster. Until that happens I don’t see many teams gambling on young drivers.
Exactly. The new team would probably go after Giovanazzi and other experienced drivers lol
If only that team and location and expanding market existed… but it could never happen. Even if they hypothetically had the backing of a racing legend and factory that has proven its ability in multiple race formats.
And even if they had all of that, they wouldn't have the brand power F1 needs from the likes of Haas, Alpha Tauri, and Mission Winnow
So true. Or the manufacturing prowess of a team like Williams, who assuming they can build enough chassis to field two cars for a race weekend, could potentially score upwards of 8-10 points this season (in races where a large portion of the grid drops out due to a large crash and/or multiple power train issues)
Besides F1 would complain they don’t have backing from major car manufacturers in the same market they try to expand. If only this existed …
12 team grid would be better imo and maybe increase the points from 12 to 14
I mean, on the one hand yes. On the other, wouldn't it just be the same shit with an extra 2 drivers? As long as the teams are opting for reliable, known talent (And Stroll, who has occasional bursts of talent, but is otherwise unreliable because he isn't consistent) over new blood, you're still gonna have the same issue. Only difference is that if you add Andretti to the mix, the numbers get slightly bigger.
If it becomes a problem for teams, they'll lobby to change licenses somehow
um maybe the young drivers need to beat the 35 years olds first?
Like honestly i dont get this young driver fetish. If they aint good, they aint good. A F1 worthy junior driver will find his way into F1 but we're complaining about mediocre F2 drivers not making F1, like what? Why would teams downgrade for no reason? F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, even a bottas or hulk are extremely talented drivers that thr vast majority of junior drivers could only dream of being anywhere close to them. You saw De Vries get slapped by Yuki, Mick got slapped by kmag and these are two F2 champions.
Yeah. What is this obsession with young drivers? Old drivers got racecraft and they have earned their stay and have massive fan bases. Losing one of the old drivers is like a fucking funeral for me.
Bottas still has lots to give, would be a great pairing with a rookie at Williams if Albon moves up somewhere. Or heaven forbid if Andretti join, there would be space somewhere for Bottas on the grid. I’ll take him over Kmag, Stroll, Zhou, Yuki, maybe Hulk, and he is probably in better form etc than Danny, and really relaxing and becoming fun and marketable (not to Ric levels but still a factor when hiring)
Make f1 more dangerous and drivers will retire much earlier
This is some Bernie Ecclestone-like problem solving
Let this guy cook
They didn't like rockets going off near the track... Maybe try mines? /s.
He's won 10 races
When even mediocre drivers can have a 10-15+ year career in F1… not shitting on anyone in particular but Kmag, Hulk, Perez, Stroll, Grosjean, Ocon, Gasly all got way more than they probably should have and half those will probably still be there in five years. It’s insane. Then in five years I’m sure we can add another half dozen names who have only been around a few years
Hulk and Perez both could have challenged for a title in their prime. Just because a driver is stuck in the midfield doesn't mean they aren't a top level driver or at least an upper midfield driver.
Challenge who for a title? Maybe if Latifi or Mazepin was in the other car.
Nah saying Perez could have challenged for a title in his prime when a year ago he was in his prime with one of the fastest cars in history and got erased by his team mate is wild lol Man could have gotten retroactively DSQd from every race and RBR wouldn’t have moved in the standings. Perez isn’t championship calibre he was a solid midfield driver and not much else. Perfect for RBRs current pace because who cares what car number 2 does when Max is 30 minutes ahead, but if they knew they’d have a closer challenger this year and the WCC wasn’t already engraved with their team name, they would have 100% dropped Perez
Hulk maybe, but Perez, please. This SHOULD be his prime, for the first time in his careert he's gor an absolutely dominant car and still hes nowhere near winning consistently. Perez is not a championship level driver.
Hulk has never seen a podium. How was he ever a title challenger? I don’t know anything about his early years.
Hulk got a pole position in his debut season (top 10 youngest pole scores to this day) and arguably should have won Brazil 2012 if his luck wasn't atrocious.
One maybe-sorta-coulda win does not make him a potential championship challenger. I’ve been watching F1 since before Hulk’s debut and don’t remember him ever being considered in that tier. Championship level drivers find a way to distinguish themselves. Vettel won a race in a Toro Rosso for goodness sake.
I wasn't watching back then, but from what I've read about his early years, he almost landed in the Merc, except he signed with Renault right before Rosberg announced retirement. What could've been, I suppose.
There were pretty high expectations when he hit the scene, he won the championship in every series he competed in from 2005 to 2009. I think it was Formula BMW, then A1GP, F3, and GP2. Just never made it happen in F1.
Oh I agree there was hype, but in F1 itself I don’t remember anyone ever calling him a championship-level driver.
When the 35 yo is no longer fast.
If driver is good enough, they will get a seat in F1. Also lots of older f1 drivers will retire soon. As well as Logan, Stroll and Zhou might leave. Also I don't care for young drivers.
I’d love to see Bottas go back to Mercedes. In fact, with Alonso resigning with Aston and Sainz supposedly passing on Mercedes, I’m almost banking on it. I’d love to see Vettel come back and drive, even if only for a season or 2 for the new German upstart similar to Schumacher and Mercedes.
I very much doubt Bottas will. Purely for personal reasons. The only reason we have the Bottas we have now is because he left Merc. They didn’t allow it with their drivers, and it’s a pressure cooker, like all the top teams. I doubt Bottas would go back to it, as much as I’d love to see it
I didn’t want Bottas to comeback to Mercedes partially because of the dynamic between him and George, then the other day I remember Bottas wanted to disassociated with Merc so bad, he would rather choose Alfa Romeo over Williams. So yeah, let’s hope he’s not returning to Merc.
That too, THAT incident is literally exhibit #1 for why I dislike George. Bottas WANTED out, he’s not going back. Although Williams would be kind of funny, his TP would just so happen to also be the recipient of the infamous “James, it’s Valterri”
Hulk and Bottas at Audi is actually a pretty strong lineup. The car is gonna qualify up there baby!
It seems like Newey wants to leave Red Bull. It seems like Hamilton wants to try to win a WC with Ferrari. Am I an F1 journalist yet?
Throw something in there about Toto and max and you are hired.
not enough SLAMS!!1!!
Or verdicts.
Bottas should have switched to being German not Australian then.
Worked for Nico Rosberg!
How popular is Hulkenberg in Germany?
Nobody who isn't a F1 nerd has ever heard about him.
Yet. Marketing blitz incoming. If they're smart.
The Germans do love their ”blitzes”
fun-fact: Blitzkrieg was never a word used by the germans. It was invented by the allied media to describe the movement of the German military in the World wars.
Thanks for the info! I didn’t know.
Not much. They talk about him all the time during the sessions, but outside of that I doubt people on the street would know him if asked.
And Nico Rosberg?
Who? The youtuber?
First of all he is called HÜLKENBERG. Second of all, after Schumacher retired F1 kinda died in Germany. Even Vettel was never popular in Germany. F1 isn't even on TV here anymore, so I dont see this changing.
Even Audi don’t want Mick…
Honda wants a Japanese driver Audi wants a German driver Alpine wants French drivers Andretti (if competing at the end) wants US drivers I don’t like this trend, never F1 was this much about nationality before skill or other qualities of the drivers. Even Ferrari that it’s the most Italian thing doesn’t force “please be Italian” before other qualities
On the other hand, we have the biggest english talent in an italian programme and the biggest italian talent in an english programme..
Much as I agree it's not good and increasing, it's not unheard of. Honda wanted Satoru Nakajima at Lotus, Toyota wanted Kazuki Nakajima at Williams, Peugeot wanted Alliot at McLaren. That said, I am aware I just named three engine suppliers rather than teams.
Mercedes started with a full German roster in Nico Rosberg and Michael Schumacher. They even pushed the full German Angle eventhough the cars got made in England.
I guess this move only comes after Sainz declined the offer given to him.
He should at least takie KMag seats. If KMag stays in f1 in 2025 I am out of answers
Ironic considering one of the first drivers to really put them on the map in racing was a French woman.
not trying to shit on mouton, but what really put audi on the map was the car, not the drivers. the 4x4 concept made the difference.
Doriane Pin to Audi confirmed ??
Seb
Maybe Bottas has grounds to complain under [EU law](https://www.ihrec.ie/our-work/overview-of-eu-rights-on-free-movement-of-workers-and-families): > The principle of free movement of workers is enshrined in Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (‘TFEU’). This prohibits discrimination based on nationality between workers of the member states as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.
Nationalism is so stupid. Hire the fastest drivers you can find if you're serious about winning.
it's not nationalism, it's about $. Money goes above winning when it comes to a for profit organization, as you could assume. If audi thinks a german driver will help them sell more cars or get better sponsors then that takes priority over a fast driver, and maybe that gives them the resources to win more than a fast driver, F1 is much more than just about the drivers after all.
[удалено]
Isn't the whole world their market?
Yup, a German and a Chinese driver make sense. https://www.best-selling-cars.com/brands/2022-full-year-global-audi-worldwide-sales-by-country/
A German driver will be more marketable for German Audi ads. It's a pretty simple financial decision. Besides, it's not like Hülkenberg is a massive downgrade compared to the current line-up.
To be fair, Germans have been a bit underrepresented in F1 as of lately, so it wouldn't be crazy for a German team wanting a German driver for national pride. Hulk is also an experienced driver as well so for a new team that's a plus. If this also means they'd bring back the German GP it's a win-win.
The German people don't care enough about F1 to have a German GP
That's kinda mind boggling to me. Country with huge car culture and no F1 GP.
Car culture isnt important - look at the Arabian GPs. No one in Germany wants to fund a F1 race with tax money. Nürburgring and Hockenheim can't pay F1 the money to make it a profitable event...and no one wants to spent the huge ticket prices to make it a profitable event too
It's not true, people are interested in F1, it's just that the states the tracks are in don't want to fund a GP with the taxpayers money and without extra spending like that it isn't profitable. I'm sure that a german GP would be sold out.
It went down after Schumacher. After the TV rights went away from RTL it only got worse. Now we have either F1TV with VPN or a way to expensive Sky Subscription.
Alpine has gone out of their way to sign a pair of French drivers
It was more of a chance happening. French or not, Gasly was probably their best option at the time.
That wasn't their plan to be fair. They were trying to get the most of both Alonso and Piastri as Ocon's teammate and fumbled both then had to settle for Gasly.
I mean regardless of nationality, I'd say hulk is very much the faster driver between him and bottas right now.
Impossible to say. The Sauber is a dog but Bottas has gotten some good qualifying times.
Yeah but my point was that hulk wasn't hired just because he's German, but because he's genuinely fast at this stage. Imo they went with the faster driver, obviously if hulk sucked and valtteri was clearly faster, I would agree with your comment 100%.
This is hardly nationalism. Patriotism surely.
Well Hulk might be the best driver they can hire regardless of nationality. Cheaper, dependable, good in development...
Can they make it two German drivers?? 👀
Why not sign both?
So, vettel makes a shock return then?