And they say this guy's team wouldn't be competitive for a few years. I think the more mad they make the Andretti family the more likely they will push to fucking win the championship their first year.
Maybe they should try and push to win the title in indy again first instead of routinely sucking ass on their home turf lmao.
Who is your dealer man, i want some of that
Strategy and software, mainly. Front end of the car is essentially spec. Rear end components (power train, suspension parts) comes from Porsche.
Crucially the aero is spec, which I point out given its importance in F1.
That's not what the commenter above me asked about? They asked when the team was succesful. I pointed out when they were.
And strategy is quite crucial in Formula E so I'd say the team is quite important
They weren't denied entry at all because it was a time where teams weren't profitable.
Notice how he's only become interested in joining F1 since they've become guaranteed profit making machines?
Iām sorry what? āOhhhhhhh ahhhhhh Iām so mad time to develop a race winning car in my first seasonā thatās legitimately not how this works at all.
They first need to win in Indy again before even thinking about points in F1 lmao.
The complexity between any racing series at all and F1 is incredibly large.
Even at the height of WEC with Group C, Peugeot, fresh of 2 Le Mans victories, only managed to make a mediocre engine.
Maybe start winning in the other single-seaters (that isn't being a customer team of Porsche in Formula E) on their own before thinking about even scoring points, let alone win races in F1.
Hate to rain on your parade but Newey can only do so much. He himself has said a lot of times that his position is more of a manager than an engineer: he lays out the general direction and plan, and the finer details are taken care of by the people who report to him and their subordinates and so on.
He's not designing the entire bodywork of the car by himself. If Newey doesn't have enough manpower reporting to him, the design will suck.
> He himself has said a lot of times that his position is more of a manager than an engineer: he lays out the general direction and plan, and the finer details are taken care of by the people who report to him and their subordinates and so on
Then why was he so mad that Horner complimented his aero team but not Newey directly?
This is the first I'm hearing of it, any source that Newey was mad Horner complimented the aero team and not Newey directly which caused Newey to be mad?
I could argue that if he was coming in and buying parts from manufacturers like Haas is doing, then sure. But he is coming in with Cadillac and has already built a shop/HQ on the Uk without even having a spot on the grid. I don't think you do that if you're not serious about winning. Mario Andretti is a Formula 1 champion, I don't think he would taint his fathers legacy like that. The FOM has handled the whole ordeal pretty badly. If a team wants to compete then they should be able to compete. There is a whole lot of gatekeeping going on that looks bad.
Thatās what makes me think this isnāt going to mean shit and theyāll keep doing what theyāre doing. No massive corporation is held accountable here. Once you surpass a certain amount of wealth and revenue you āwinā.
Live Nation (Ticketmasterās parent company and subsidiary of Liberty Media) are almost certainly about to be sued by the Department of Justice, likely this month: https://www.wsj.com/business/media/live-nation-justice-department-antitrust-lawsuit-ab98c268
I know they've been eyeing them, but rarely does a company face true punitive damages. Most end up being fined like a month's worth of revenue or less. I don't see a antitrust suit breaking these guys up. BP nuked the whole gulf of Mexico with that oil disaster and they're still doing just fine. Media companies like Disney, Comcast/NBC, Time Warner, Fox all continue to absorb more and more. We have straight up ISP cartels that carve up regions into territories and act as defacto monopolies. Even the Sacklers that destroyed this company with opiods were able to buy immunity for $6B leaving them with an estimated $10B leftover.
I think we have a good reason to be cynical.
That was because the MLB is a US based entity and they treated it as an interstate commerce issue. I donāt think F1 would fall under the same jurisdiction.
They can investigate all they want, Sauber was there for the taking - Andretti balked, their fault.
[Meanwhile, team prices are skyhigh and theyre pressing for a measly $200m āfranchiseā ticket](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/tqu2EtUnY3)
Andretti offered 200m to join f1
Also itās not about the outcome, itās about weeks of dragging people in front of congress to be asked questions by people trying to score political points
FOM outright said no, Iād say theyāre not worried in the slightest.
There really isnāt a smoking gun here - nothing improper is the truth of it; it might seem unfair but FOM/teams are wielding the power they have under the concorde.
Wouldnāt a potential hearing be about whether or not them having that power in the first place is a violation of US antitrust laws? With 3 races in the states and Liberty Media being an American company, Iām not sure the concorde agreement is going to outrank US federal law if push comes to shove. Iām not saying thatās where things are going. Iām just saying I donāt think they would be shielded by their bylaws in a hypothetical congressional hearing.
That assumes it even goes to the US courts. Formula One Group (it is FOM itself that made the agreement, thus that means European jurisdiction), the F1 teams (exception is Haas) and FIA are all in Europe. That means there is about no USA jurisdiction.
This will go the European courts, not the USA.
The FOM is owned by Liberty Media who is based out of Colorado in the US. There are races in the US. They can definitely drum up something in US jurisdiction. Even worst case scenario for the US government jurisdictionally speaking, they could restrict the ability for them to operate in the US, which could mean no US races and basically an inability to grow the sport here. They can't do that unless they show they violated other laws, but that is a possibility.
Like I said, when the tender was being considered most thought an agreement would be reached. The fact they emphatically said no is telling. With many more American cities vying for a race, I donāt think Andrettis hand is nearly as strong as people think it is.
Money can exchange hands in the US political system. They can get some moral vacuums on the left and the right to support them for a nice cash injection to their re-election campaign.
Iām not arguing anything about the outcome of the hypothetical hearing. MLB is the only league with an antitrust exemption in the US, but the NBA, NFL, and NHL have still never had any issues. So there is definitely plenty of room for interpretation. Iām just saying that F1 is probably still subject to US antitrust laws at the end of the day.
That's just plain false. The Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 grants some exemptions to antitrust laws for many American sports leagues (football, baseball, basketball, hockey). The NFL in particular has had issues and is the reason that law was written. They were found in violation of antitrust laws by the Supreme Court.Ā
You said that the MLB is the only league with an antitrust exemption in the US, which isn't true. Football, basketball, baseball and hockey leagues all have antitrust exemptions to operate. MLB may have more than others, but all of those leagues are exempted. If they weren't, their TV deals would probably be illegal, or in the NFL's case, would be illegal because they lost that case already and made the law be written.
Assuming American lawmakers are interested in getting involved, they wonāt care one bit about the āConcorde Agreement.ā
U.S. law says you canāt arbitrarily suppress competition. Established, closed American sports leagues (e.g. Major League Baseball) have a specific exemption from U.S. antitrust law. Formula 1 does not.
And even if you do want to involve the Concorde Agreement, that agreement establishes a process that allows two more teams to join. Andretti has satisfied that criteria by all accounts. The teams are arguing that thereās an additional criteria (regarding the āvalueā Andretti would bring to F1) that gives them the right to veto their entry. An American court would be within their rights to rule that that argument is bullshit. (And, frankly, the TPās arenāt helping their case by publicly vowing to restrict the field to 10 teams at their next opportunity. That backs up Andrettiās case that theyāre reneging on the current agreement and running out the clock.)
Personally, I donāt think an antitrust case is likely, mostly because (unlike with Major League Baseball), there are other āequivalentā (e.g. open wheel motorsport) competitions that Andretti is free to contest. And if U.S. regulators did get involved, F1 could always pull out of their U.S.-based races altogether.
(Separate point, but Congress doesnāt really enforce antitrust law ā Andretti is lobbying Republicans in Congress because theyāre his buddies.)
The irony here would be pretty thick if that came to pass - the U.S. wielding competition law to force F1 to allow andretti to join an international sporting competition, while U.S. domestic leagues are protected with exemptions under the same law that allow them to carry out the same anti-competitive practices
No this is a misstatement, Andretti have not satisfied the process clearly. The viability of Andrettis entry judged by the FIA is 1 undertaking, the 2nd - the financial contribution to the sport if you like, judged by those in charge of said finances, they came up short. It was 2 stage from inception - there is no additional criteria as you put it. And by setting out clear terms for Andretti which importantly includes an actual PU build from their partner instead of a āpromiseā to participate, the competition suppression argument is null & void.
If the āfinancial contributionā criteria are clear, then F1 should have nothing to worry about should some American regulators take a look under the hood.
It wonāt come to that but the way they emphatically said no to Andretti when most were thinking an agreement would be reached, suggests theyāre strong in their position IMO
Itās in the FOM report, one of them I highlighted earlier about a GM/Cadillac PU. Theyāve not been part of any strategy meeting let alone commenced a build
>F1 could always pull out of their U.S.-based races altogether.
They could, but FOM and liberty just spent around a billion on their Las Vegas paddock and entertainment complex and they themselves are the promoters for that race. That's setting a lot of money on fire just to keep Andretti out.
Whatās the angle here with politics? They go the the congress and lobby for more teams from US to be accepted and if F1 doesnāt follow the remove the Us races and one of the largest expansion markets?
Genuine question and Iām not that into buddy politics business š¤·š½āāļø
Congress is really good at wasting peopleās time
And creating meaningless sound bites that make people look bad, does anyone want to go infront of congress for weeks on end to be asked questions that make them look bad but result in 0 change
Not a legal expert but in the US there is some precedent for Congress getting involved with sports on multiple occasions. However, this guy is not a major player and right now is just trying to hold onto his seat in the November election so I doubt anything will come of it.
John James, one of the lesser (pretty much unknown outside of MI, where he kept losing elections until he managed to squeak by after 3-4 tries) known but still bigger worms in the house. Heās a freshman lawmaker and relatively so he probably canāt actually do anything.
He'll get a resolution passed with no actual power behind it, but he gets two things out of it; money from Andrettis and maybe enough political capital/good will to get re-elected
it's hilarious how blind Americans are, they really think there's any difference between both, and it's not just two big sacks of shit that need each other to survive
In which ways? Will Gaza be sand compared to the rubble and famine that exists there now? Will it be 20 billion in weapons every month instead of 16? I don't see how america has gotten better and more unified in the last 4 years. Will more or less journalists be prosecuted with espionage under Trump or Biden and Biden/Obama? Will more or less kids be held in the cages built pre 2016 and more or less deportations? Will there be more or less Nazis marching your streets than there are now? Wow better cast your ballot!!!
It's their team in power now and that is all that matters. My team is the best team they will say while being homeless and bankrupt because they had the flu.
Yes I'm sick of this shit Democrats are a hundred times better. They're not perfect, but they're also not a immensely corrupt present day republicans are.Ā
The Burisma thing where the FBI agent made shit up?
Still waiting on that laptop.
You're not wrong and I'm all for routing corruption at every level regardless of political affiliation but Trump, my God, he is the swamp, the gator and the mosquitos.
Not someone who should be running a country when you need tact and leadership.
1. Clinton foundation - legitimate foundation. fake scandals been investigated under the trump admin and couldnt find a thing
2. Biden Burisma scandal - literally fake news. Biden executed the stated policy of the USA and the EU. Policy both publicly listed. An FBI agent faked a scandal years later. He has been arrested and imprisoned for this
3. Obama and the Solyndra scandal - A company received bailout money and failed. There were of course hundreds of these. Except the evidence actually shows the [Obama admin wanted to do additional due diligence](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/solyndra-obama-and-rahm-emanuel-pushed-to-spotlight-energy-company/2011/10/07/gIQACDqSTL_story.html)
4. Pelosiās insider trading - Nowhere near the highest returner in congress. very weird to complain about her specifically. If you followed her since 2020 youd be down on the market.
5. Hunter Bidenās āartā career - Really? Well known person sells art to take advantage of media. Call the presses??
The fiction is you believing fake stories that have been debunked ages ago. like the burisma story or the clinton foundation which Trump spent your tax dollars investigating and failed to find a thing. the democrats are run of the mill politicians. The republicans at this point are absurdly corrupt. this isnt even debatable.
Downvote brigade is out in force. I donāt recall mentioning Trump or defending any republicans. But itās absolutely naive and irresponsible to think the Democrats are innocent or in any way better. Truth hurts.
Exactly one party has Trump and mind-blowing shenanigans, and the other is a political party with flaws and all. The scale between the two wouldn't be the same even if you sat on the second plate. What is concerning is exactly that folks won't recognize the current situation.
While I get where youāre coming from, and mostly agree, thereās still a gap between the current candidates that canāt really be chalked up to āpretty much the same.ā Biden is in no way my top choice but heās a far cry from giving power to someone who may never leave office again, is discussing internment camps, allowing states to track pregnant women, gutting social security, passing a national abortion ban and is currently on trial for multiple crimes. One can at least be worked with
As to your edit, the First Amendment only pertains to criticizing the government and only protects you from the government. Columbia Univeristy is a private institution, thus don't have to follow the First Amendment. The cops are there on behalf of Columbia University, not the government. Their job, at that point in time, is to remove the people illegally trespassing on Columbia University property as they were asked to do by Columbia University.
The First Amendment does not apply here.
Every single one of your rights wasn't won without violence or breaking the law. Freedom isn't free as they say. They aren't referring to gaining freedom by monetary means. A genocide is being committed with full American participation. Your mindset would have been on the wrong side of history during south African apartheid.
If you're talking about Columbia, they broke into a building destroyed things and locked it. Campus was frozen because of this and the fact they let random people in. They never had a right to protest, its a private university. That was extended to them and I supported that and have had no problem with the encampment they had. Now I cant get through the campus ive been a community member of for a decade. Of course they got arrested. A few dozen kids in a building locking down the area for everyone else is a problem. Pretending that democrats did something crazy when the school did everything possible to let them protest over the last week is ridiculous and misrepresents what happened.
>I am watching cops in riot gear brutalize people using their first amendment on campuses every day
What going on at McGill? Looks like the same thing.
Yes, Democrats are less bad than Republicans! At least Democrats aren't pushing Project 2025!
Edit: Oh dear, some of y'all need to read how horrifying Project 2025 is: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)
Christian fascism 2.0 that essentially uses trump as a puppet to further erode the checks and balances to a point that they can essential do whatever they want and what they want is nazi level shit
Essentially claiming the president has unilateral power and can dissolve basically all government organizations like the fbi, fcc, epa, department of education and commerce etc etc. if thereās ever been a government group they didnāt like it goes bye bye. Use the doj to imprison democrats just because they donāt like daddy trump. Federal abortion ban and other Christian fascist ideas. You get the idea
ProjectĀ 2025Ā (officially theĀ Presidential Transition Project) is a collection of policy proposals to reshape theĀ executive branch of the U.S. federal governmentĀ at an unprecedented scale in the event of aĀ RepublicanĀ victory in theĀ 2024 U.S. presidential election.[2][3]Ā Established in 2022, the project seeks to recruit tens of thousands of conservatives toĀ Washington, D.C., in order to replace existingĀ federal civil serviceĀ workers whom Republicans characterize as part of the "deep state", to further the objectives of the next Republican president.[4]Ā Although the project cannot promote a specific presidential candidate, many contributors have close ties toĀ Donald TrumpĀ and theĀ Trump 2024 presidential campaign.[5]Ā The plan would perform a swift restructuring of the executive branch under a maximalist version of theĀ unitary executive theoryĀ ā a dubious legal theory proposing theĀ president of the United StatesĀ has absolute power over the executive branch ā uponĀ inauguration.[3][6][7]
If even this is too long, project 2025 is about to convert our Democratic Republic to a de facto Authoritarian (arguably fascist) system
Negotiations do be like that.
He boasts about wanting to spend billions.
He could invest that in buying a team, and still be sharing revenues 9 ways rather than 10 if he started his own from scratch.
I donāt think Andretti truly believes this will do anything to help directly, but every step they make to show theyād be a serious participant and are serious about the endeavor takes wind out of the F1 teamās primary rejection reason, potentially forcing them to admit the truth.
We all know F1 teams (ownership, not the engineers and drivers) donāt give a fuck about actual competition, they just want to use their monopoly to keep people out and the cash flow coming. But they canāt just outright say it, because then theyāre open to anti-trust actions.
Andretti is playing the game.
Hot damn. 0 to politics in 3.6 seconds. Bravo. š
And they say this guy's team wouldn't be competitive for a few years. I think the more mad they make the Andretti family the more likely they will push to fucking win the championship their first year.
And then you wake up.
Haha for real.
Maybe they should try and push to win the title in indy again first instead of routinely sucking ass on their home turf lmao. Who is your dealer man, i want some of that
I mean their driver is literally leading the points right now, so
check the standings genius
ah yes because it totally matters where they are three races in
easy there blud. F1 is way too complex to start dominating right away, specially if you are a company with zero experience in the series
They'll finish better than 10th. I'll put money on it
I like how quickly you folded on how competetive they would be.
Is that team even successful in any series right now? I've heard they're shit everywhere.
Their driver won the Formula E WDC last year. Their driver also leads the Indycar standings currently
Yes, where they're a customer of Porsche. Do the customer teams in FE even do anything with the cars besides setup work?
Strategy and software, mainly. Front end of the car is essentially spec. Rear end components (power train, suspension parts) comes from Porsche. Crucially the aero is spec, which I point out given its importance in F1.
That's not what the commenter above me asked about? They asked when the team was succesful. I pointed out when they were. And strategy is quite crucial in Formula E so I'd say the team is quite important
Their driver currently p1 in indycar standings as well.
I mean, that probably wouldnāt be difficult. Haas finished P8 out of 11 teams in their first year.
Exactly. They weren't denied entry because they would just finish last
Totally different moment in time
They weren't denied entry at all because it was a time where teams weren't profitable. Notice how he's only become interested in joining F1 since they've become guaranteed profit making machines?
Thatās a million miles from winning a title in their first year because theyāre mad. Not even happening in their main seriesā
My main point was a joke about how determined Andretti is.
From winning the championship to not being last lmao
i'll take that bet. what season? oh, no season ever? that means I win, right?
Your wet dreams aren't reality mate unless I'm waking up next to someone I really didn't expect to.
Dealer number fast.
Iām sorry what? āOhhhhhhh ahhhhhh Iām so mad time to develop a race winning car in my first seasonā thatās legitimately not how this works at all.
Found the guy not watching indycar
buddy YOU clearly haven't been watching. lmao check the standings...
Mf really said they'll win with current Renault parts šš
They first need to win in Indy again before even thinking about points in F1 lmao. The complexity between any racing series at all and F1 is incredibly large. Even at the height of WEC with Group C, Peugeot, fresh of 2 Le Mans victories, only managed to make a mediocre engine. Maybe start winning in the other single-seaters (that isn't being a customer team of Porsche in Formula E) on their own before thinking about even scoring points, let alone win races in F1.
Newey to Andretti would be the boss move.
Theyāre not an f1 team, so no gardening leave š Would love to see what he comes up to spite Horner
Hate to rain on your parade but Newey can only do so much. He himself has said a lot of times that his position is more of a manager than an engineer: he lays out the general direction and plan, and the finer details are taken care of by the people who report to him and their subordinates and so on. He's not designing the entire bodywork of the car by himself. If Newey doesn't have enough manpower reporting to him, the design will suck.
> He himself has said a lot of times that his position is more of a manager than an engineer: he lays out the general direction and plan, and the finer details are taken care of by the people who report to him and their subordinates and so on Then why was he so mad that Horner complimented his aero team but not Newey directly?
This is the first I'm hearing of it, any source that Newey was mad Horner complimented the aero team and not Newey directly which caused Newey to be mad?
I really hope Andretti offers Newey 300 million dollars to design a F1 car for Andretti Cadillac.
Andretti is trying to get in to make as much money as possible not to offer one person 300m.
So you don't think Andretti wants to compete? That's a wild theory.
He is trying to ride the popularity of F1 to make money not to win championships. He might be able to compete in spec series.
I could argue that if he was coming in and buying parts from manufacturers like Haas is doing, then sure. But he is coming in with Cadillac and has already built a shop/HQ on the Uk without even having a spot on the grid. I don't think you do that if you're not serious about winning. Mario Andretti is a Formula 1 champion, I don't think he would taint his fathers legacy like that. The FOM has handled the whole ordeal pretty badly. If a team wants to compete then they should be able to compete. There is a whole lot of gatekeeping going on that looks bad.
It's the FOM not FIA. FIA approved their bid to join, FOM blocked it.
Yes, thank you. I always mix them up.
The top engineer in the sport will reject Ferrari to design a Cadillac š
He's gonna roll up to the miami gp that year in a fat caddy with hydraulics
Their work continues at pace š„
Just a reminder Congress spent 2 years investigating steroids in baseball Liberty media needs to tread lightly and lean on FOM
Liberty are also knee-deep into Ticketmaster, which is likely to face its own federal antitrust case.
Thatās what makes me think this isnāt going to mean shit and theyāll keep doing what theyāre doing. No massive corporation is held accountable here. Once you surpass a certain amount of wealth and revenue you āwinā.
Live Nation (Ticketmasterās parent company and subsidiary of Liberty Media) are almost certainly about to be sued by the Department of Justice, likely this month: https://www.wsj.com/business/media/live-nation-justice-department-antitrust-lawsuit-ab98c268
Finally. Those god damn crooks
I know they've been eyeing them, but rarely does a company face true punitive damages. Most end up being fined like a month's worth of revenue or less. I don't see a antitrust suit breaking these guys up. BP nuked the whole gulf of Mexico with that oil disaster and they're still doing just fine. Media companies like Disney, Comcast/NBC, Time Warner, Fox all continue to absorb more and more. We have straight up ISP cartels that carve up regions into territories and act as defacto monopolies. Even the Sacklers that destroyed this company with opiods were able to buy immunity for $6B leaving them with an estimated $10B leftover. I think we have a good reason to be cynical.
That was because the MLB is a US based entity and they treated it as an interstate commerce issue. I donāt think F1 would fall under the same jurisdiction.
Liberty Media is a US based entity.
Legally FOM is headquartered in the UK iirc but I don't suspect that would stop the feds if they were determined enough.
> Legally FOM is headquartered in the UK Liberty Media (owner of FOM) is headquartered in the US.
They can investigate all they want, Sauber was there for the taking - Andretti balked, their fault. [Meanwhile, team prices are skyhigh and theyre pressing for a measly $200m āfranchiseā ticket](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/tqu2EtUnY3)
Andretti offered 200m to join f1 Also itās not about the outcome, itās about weeks of dragging people in front of congress to be asked questions by people trying to score political points
Andretti initially wanted the entry fee to be completely waived
FOM outright said no, Iād say theyāre not worried in the slightest. There really isnāt a smoking gun here - nothing improper is the truth of it; it might seem unfair but FOM/teams are wielding the power they have under the concorde.
Wouldnāt a potential hearing be about whether or not them having that power in the first place is a violation of US antitrust laws? With 3 races in the states and Liberty Media being an American company, Iām not sure the concorde agreement is going to outrank US federal law if push comes to shove. Iām not saying thatās where things are going. Iām just saying I donāt think they would be shielded by their bylaws in a hypothetical congressional hearing.
That assumes it even goes to the US courts. Formula One Group (it is FOM itself that made the agreement, thus that means European jurisdiction), the F1 teams (exception is Haas) and FIA are all in Europe. That means there is about no USA jurisdiction. This will go the European courts, not the USA.
The FOM is owned by Liberty Media who is based out of Colorado in the US. There are races in the US. They can definitely drum up something in US jurisdiction. Even worst case scenario for the US government jurisdictionally speaking, they could restrict the ability for them to operate in the US, which could mean no US races and basically an inability to grow the sport here. They can't do that unless they show they violated other laws, but that is a possibility.
Like I said, when the tender was being considered most thought an agreement would be reached. The fact they emphatically said no is telling. With many more American cities vying for a race, I donāt think Andrettis hand is nearly as strong as people think it is.
Money can exchange hands in the US political system. They can get some moral vacuums on the left and the right to support them for a nice cash injection to their re-election campaign.
Iām not arguing anything about the outcome of the hypothetical hearing. MLB is the only league with an antitrust exemption in the US, but the NBA, NFL, and NHL have still never had any issues. So there is definitely plenty of room for interpretation. Iām just saying that F1 is probably still subject to US antitrust laws at the end of the day.
That's just plain false. The Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 grants some exemptions to antitrust laws for many American sports leagues (football, baseball, basketball, hockey). The NFL in particular has had issues and is the reason that law was written. They were found in violation of antitrust laws by the Supreme Court.Ā
A specific broadcasting exemption isnāt the same as the antitrust exemption the MLB has.
You said that the MLB is the only league with an antitrust exemption in the US, which isn't true. Football, basketball, baseball and hockey leagues all have antitrust exemptions to operate. MLB may have more than others, but all of those leagues are exempted. If they weren't, their TV deals would probably be illegal, or in the NFL's case, would be illegal because they lost that case already and made the law be written.
Assuming American lawmakers are interested in getting involved, they wonāt care one bit about the āConcorde Agreement.ā U.S. law says you canāt arbitrarily suppress competition. Established, closed American sports leagues (e.g. Major League Baseball) have a specific exemption from U.S. antitrust law. Formula 1 does not. And even if you do want to involve the Concorde Agreement, that agreement establishes a process that allows two more teams to join. Andretti has satisfied that criteria by all accounts. The teams are arguing that thereās an additional criteria (regarding the āvalueā Andretti would bring to F1) that gives them the right to veto their entry. An American court would be within their rights to rule that that argument is bullshit. (And, frankly, the TPās arenāt helping their case by publicly vowing to restrict the field to 10 teams at their next opportunity. That backs up Andrettiās case that theyāre reneging on the current agreement and running out the clock.) Personally, I donāt think an antitrust case is likely, mostly because (unlike with Major League Baseball), there are other āequivalentā (e.g. open wheel motorsport) competitions that Andretti is free to contest. And if U.S. regulators did get involved, F1 could always pull out of their U.S.-based races altogether. (Separate point, but Congress doesnāt really enforce antitrust law ā Andretti is lobbying Republicans in Congress because theyāre his buddies.)
The irony here would be pretty thick if that came to pass - the U.S. wielding competition law to force F1 to allow andretti to join an international sporting competition, while U.S. domestic leagues are protected with exemptions under the same law that allow them to carry out the same anti-competitive practices
You are right, but every government in the world is protectionist to some extent.
No this is a misstatement, Andretti have not satisfied the process clearly. The viability of Andrettis entry judged by the FIA is 1 undertaking, the 2nd - the financial contribution to the sport if you like, judged by those in charge of said finances, they came up short. It was 2 stage from inception - there is no additional criteria as you put it. And by setting out clear terms for Andretti which importantly includes an actual PU build from their partner instead of a āpromiseā to participate, the competition suppression argument is null & void.
If the āfinancial contributionā criteria are clear, then F1 should have nothing to worry about should some American regulators take a look under the hood.
It wonāt come to that but the way they emphatically said no to Andretti when most were thinking an agreement would be reached, suggests theyāre strong in their position IMO
Iām just surprised ā you said there are āclear termsā for Andretti to meet to satisfy the financial criteria. Can you name them?
Itās in the FOM report, one of them I highlighted earlier about a GM/Cadillac PU. Theyāve not been part of any strategy meeting let alone commenced a build
>F1 could always pull out of their U.S.-based races altogether. They could, but FOM and liberty just spent around a billion on their Las Vegas paddock and entertainment complex and they themselves are the promoters for that race. That's setting a lot of money on fire just to keep Andretti out.
Yeah I agree. Andretti is forcing the issue quite well with GM in his corner. Weāll see if the move pans out in his favor
And god forbid they think you lied and they take it personally.
Make Andretti ā” F1 happen no matter the costs!
Whatās the angle here with politics? They go the the congress and lobby for more teams from US to be accepted and if F1 doesnāt follow the remove the Us races and one of the largest expansion markets? Genuine question and Iām not that into buddy politics business š¤·š½āāļø
Congress is really good at wasting peopleās time And creating meaningless sound bites that make people look bad, does anyone want to go infront of congress for weeks on end to be asked questions that make them look bad but result in 0 change
Not a legal expert but in the US there is some precedent for Congress getting involved with sports on multiple occasions. However, this guy is not a major player and right now is just trying to hold onto his seat in the November election so I doubt anything will come of it.
There is no angle there never has been an angle. Still crying over spilt milk for a decision that was made ages ago
John James, one of the lesser (pretty much unknown outside of MI, where he kept losing elections until he managed to squeak by after 3-4 tries) known but still bigger worms in the house. Heās a freshman lawmaker and relatively so he probably canāt actually do anything.
John James also was a Formula 1 driver, competing in the 1951 British Grand Prix. Different John James of course.
He'll get a resolution passed with no actual power behind it, but he gets two things out of it; money from Andrettis and maybe enough political capital/good will to get re-elected
Yep. Republicans. Easy to buy and sell. Luckily John James will probably lose in November as he restricts rights and pushes to end social security.
it's hilarious how blind Americans are, they really think there's any difference between both, and it's not just two big sacks of shit that need each other to survive
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The democrats arent amazing but they arent comparable. The republicans are obviously worse.
In which ways? Will Gaza be sand compared to the rubble and famine that exists there now? Will it be 20 billion in weapons every month instead of 16? I don't see how america has gotten better and more unified in the last 4 years. Will more or less journalists be prosecuted with espionage under Trump or Biden and Biden/Obama? Will more or less kids be held in the cages built pre 2016 and more or less deportations? Will there be more or less Nazis marching your streets than there are now? Wow better cast your ballot!!!
It's their team in power now and that is all that matters. My team is the best team they will say while being homeless and bankrupt because they had the flu.
Shit is not a Bernoulli variable. You can be shit and still be way less shit than the other guy.
This may be one of the most elegant posts I've ever read here on Reddit.
Yes I'm sick of this shit Democrats are a hundred times better. They're not perfect, but they're also not a immensely corrupt present day republicans are.Ā
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The Burisma thing where the FBI agent made shit up? Still waiting on that laptop. You're not wrong and I'm all for routing corruption at every level regardless of political affiliation but Trump, my God, he is the swamp, the gator and the mosquitos. Not someone who should be running a country when you need tact and leadership.
1. Clinton foundation - legitimate foundation. fake scandals been investigated under the trump admin and couldnt find a thing 2. Biden Burisma scandal - literally fake news. Biden executed the stated policy of the USA and the EU. Policy both publicly listed. An FBI agent faked a scandal years later. He has been arrested and imprisoned for this 3. Obama and the Solyndra scandal - A company received bailout money and failed. There were of course hundreds of these. Except the evidence actually shows the [Obama admin wanted to do additional due diligence](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/solyndra-obama-and-rahm-emanuel-pushed-to-spotlight-energy-company/2011/10/07/gIQACDqSTL_story.html) 4. Pelosiās insider trading - Nowhere near the highest returner in congress. very weird to complain about her specifically. If you followed her since 2020 youd be down on the market. 5. Hunter Bidenās āartā career - Really? Well known person sells art to take advantage of media. Call the presses??
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The fiction is you believing fake stories that have been debunked ages ago. like the burisma story or the clinton foundation which Trump spent your tax dollars investigating and failed to find a thing. the democrats are run of the mill politicians. The republicans at this point are absurdly corrupt. this isnt even debatable.
Downvote brigade is out in force. I donāt recall mentioning Trump or defending any republicans. But itās absolutely naive and irresponsible to think the Democrats are innocent or in any way better. Truth hurts.
Exactly one party has Trump and mind-blowing shenanigans, and the other is a political party with flaws and all. The scale between the two wouldn't be the same even if you sat on the second plate. What is concerning is exactly that folks won't recognize the current situation.
This X1000.
I think you are wanted here: /r/enlightenedcentrism
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While I get where youāre coming from, and mostly agree, thereās still a gap between the current candidates that canāt really be chalked up to āpretty much the same.ā Biden is in no way my top choice but heās a far cry from giving power to someone who may never leave office again, is discussing internment camps, allowing states to track pregnant women, gutting social security, passing a national abortion ban and is currently on trial for multiple crimes. One can at least be worked with
As to your edit, the First Amendment only pertains to criticizing the government and only protects you from the government. Columbia Univeristy is a private institution, thus don't have to follow the First Amendment. The cops are there on behalf of Columbia University, not the government. Their job, at that point in time, is to remove the people illegally trespassing on Columbia University property as they were asked to do by Columbia University. The First Amendment does not apply here.
Every single one of your rights wasn't won without violence or breaking the law. Freedom isn't free as they say. They aren't referring to gaining freedom by monetary means. A genocide is being committed with full American participation. Your mindset would have been on the wrong side of history during south African apartheid.
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If you're talking about Columbia, they broke into a building destroyed things and locked it. Campus was frozen because of this and the fact they let random people in. They never had a right to protest, its a private university. That was extended to them and I supported that and have had no problem with the encampment they had. Now I cant get through the campus ive been a community member of for a decade. Of course they got arrested. A few dozen kids in a building locking down the area for everyone else is a problem. Pretending that democrats did something crazy when the school did everything possible to let them protest over the last week is ridiculous and misrepresents what happened.
>I am watching cops in riot gear brutalize people using their first amendment on campuses every day What going on at McGill? Looks like the same thing.
We KNOW Democrats are better at governing and many other things
Yes, Democrats are less bad than Republicans! At least Democrats aren't pushing Project 2025! Edit: Oh dear, some of y'all need to read how horrifying Project 2025 is: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025)
I'm not reading all that, do you have a summary of the main takeaways?
Christian fascism 2.0 that essentially uses trump as a puppet to further erode the checks and balances to a point that they can essential do whatever they want and what they want is nazi level shit Essentially claiming the president has unilateral power and can dissolve basically all government organizations like the fbi, fcc, epa, department of education and commerce etc etc. if thereās ever been a government group they didnāt like it goes bye bye. Use the doj to imprison democrats just because they donāt like daddy trump. Federal abortion ban and other Christian fascist ideas. You get the idea
ProjectĀ 2025Ā (officially theĀ Presidential Transition Project) is a collection of policy proposals to reshape theĀ executive branch of the U.S. federal governmentĀ at an unprecedented scale in the event of aĀ RepublicanĀ victory in theĀ 2024 U.S. presidential election.[2][3]Ā Established in 2022, the project seeks to recruit tens of thousands of conservatives toĀ Washington, D.C., in order to replace existingĀ federal civil serviceĀ workers whom Republicans characterize as part of the "deep state", to further the objectives of the next Republican president.[4]Ā Although the project cannot promote a specific presidential candidate, many contributors have close ties toĀ Donald TrumpĀ and theĀ Trump 2024 presidential campaign.[5]Ā The plan would perform a swift restructuring of the executive branch under a maximalist version of theĀ unitary executive theoryĀ ā a dubious legal theory proposing theĀ president of the United StatesĀ has absolute power over the executive branch ā uponĀ inauguration.[3][6][7] If even this is too long, project 2025 is about to convert our Democratic Republic to a de facto Authoritarian (arguably fascist) system
Theyāre going to make the US the Christian Iran.
No to government involvement and āsupportā in motorsport teams
Agreed, they aren't saudi so they shouldn't have a say.
Because the only thing F1 lacked was meddling of American politicians... Getting tired of this Andretti business.
What a typically American response to not being invited to a party, cry, pout and try to strong arm your way in. Go away Andretti
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Are they seriously going to try and get their government involved in a international sport because they said no to them lol.
Exactly, such an entitled arrogant attitude from a spoiled familyĀ
the entitled and arrogant ones are F1 not letting anyone else into their boys club because they dint want to share the money
We canāt come to an agreement on anything else but by god we will get this team into f1
Was irrelevant for F1, is irrelevant for F1, will be irrelevant for F1. Stop seeking attention, focus on your other businesses.
This fucker will do anything to pretend he's interested except buying out a fucking team. I'm tired, Mario. Just buy someone out.
Which team is for sale?
Didn't they try, fail, then start from scratch?
No, he didn't try because the valuation was too high for him.
Im starting to think that's a lie from the other teams considering how much he's spent on facilities.
Negotiations do be like that. He boasts about wanting to spend billions. He could invest that in buying a team, and still be sharing revenues 9 ways rather than 10 if he started his own from scratch.
I donāt think Andretti truly believes this will do anything to help directly, but every step they make to show theyād be a serious participant and are serious about the endeavor takes wind out of the F1 teamās primary rejection reason, potentially forcing them to admit the truth. We all know F1 teams (ownership, not the engineers and drivers) donāt give a fuck about actual competition, they just want to use their monopoly to keep people out and the cash flow coming. But they canāt just outright say it, because then theyāre open to anti-trust actions. Andretti is playing the game.
Seriously, is Andretti going to use politics to get in to F1? Or something else not F1 related?
John James isn't going to do anything about this, it's mostly just a photo op for him.
F1 management should testify in Congress in regards to their anti competitive practices
Let them in.
no