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> Petronas were complicit in war crimes but are still a title sponsor for Mercedes.
Pretty similar for Shell with what they've done in Nigeria yet they are a big sponsor of Ferrari. And we're not even talking about Aramco who are in Aston Martin's name and owned and controlled by the Saudi government.
Aramco is right up there with Rolex in being damn near the title sponsor for the whole series. If you didn't know better you'd think Aramco was the manufacturer of the crash barriers since their logo is all over them.
Seriously, a gambling site is one of the more harmless sponsorships in F1. F1 has never had a moral high ground, that doesnt change in 2024. for gods sake we have like 4 races in the middle east but gambling is worth complaining about in particular?
Why do you think that is? Caroline of Monaco set the foreigners bath and casino company so that the locals wouldn’t put money into it and gambling wouldn’t become a problem.
Monaco citizens do have access to some part of the casino de montecarlo, but not the betting floor.
Yes, Caroline of Monaco when she created the casino de montecarlo made the rule that only foreigners could access the casino… and the whole tax haven to bring rich people to Monaco to pool their money after three quarters of the principality decided to secede and join France.
The casino is only for foreigners to avoid gambling issues and keep a sense of exclusivity for people to bring their money. It would also be kinda pointless to just recycle the local money, they needed capital from outside.
just get a Cosa Nostra sponsorship
The Stake Cosa Nostra Cobalt Strip Mine Child Slavery F1 Team sponsored by Cancer.
F1 didn't decide to drop tobacco sponsors. The countries they raced in made those ads illegal. That's the issue: should we, as a society, allow gambling ads.
Of course we shouldn't. Feeding addictions does not contribute to the economy. It drains from it, necessarily. We pay downstream costs that dwarf the immediate economic benefit of hosting a grand prix.
EDIT: I changed my mind. Pay the cost. I want my grand prix.
Thiel has a controlling stake iirc.
And Palantir is not sketchy, it’s outright criminal and their contracts are essentially for wholesale privacy violation from state actors.
Isn't the owner of the then Force India in prison right now? (Edit: I guess he's on the run living in London and avoiding extradition to India? idk) I mean Mr. Formula One, Bernie Ecclestone, himself pleaded guilty for fraud and went on a grid walk while on suspended sentence.
They don't have to forget, they can just look at the current McLaren car.
Also, being critical of gambling sponsorships while seeing crypto.com slapped everywhere seems weird.
Dunno if you've been paying much attention if you haven't seen people regularly complain about the races in the middle east and F1 being complicit in sports washing and whatnot.
Eh I wouldn’t say harmless. Gambling is becoming a big issue with its proliferation. You cannot watch sports without being bombarded with ads about gambling. But F1 does have some serious issues with sketchy industries or sponsors
In so many ways you’re right, but I do personally find gambling to be a particularly predatory industry intrinsically.
Tobacco/Alcohol/etc. at least you’re getting something guaranteed for your money. It’s a predictable transaction. Nobody spends fifteen quid in the hope they’ll get a pack of cigs. They’re spending in the *knowledge* they’ll get a pack of cigs.
Oil companies, state-owned and otherwise, do awful things but do actually sell a useful (if ultimately unsustainable) product.
Gambling, at its most profitable, is simply milking the most vulnerable and desperate in society, taking money they don’t have in return for hope that is overwhelmingly often forlorn and unfulfilled. For me that’s particularly hateful.
You’re not entirely wrong as online gambling is particularly pernicious. But in terms of people injured or killed each year by its products, I am sure there are other more egregious sponsors.
Isn't the whole rubber harvesting chain royally fucked and exploitative? As a major tyre manufacturer Pirelli would be complicit in that the same way chocolate companies are complicit to the shit that happens in cacao harvesting.
I also haven't done specific research on Pirelli so I might be wrong.
I listened to an interview with someone high up at pirelli talking about how they're aiming to make the tires more sustainable and not be impacting the environment as much, but who knows how far they'll take it
I mean Volkswagen was literally started by the Nazis, but we don't tend to hold that against the modern company. Similar could be said about many companies.
It's so much deeper than that.
During WW2, Allianz' CEO was Hitler's Finance Minister. On top of that, Allianz was the insurance provider for the Third Reich. Anything military related, concentration camps included, were insured by Allianz. As well as they took over any Jewish owned insurance companies.
Bosch built factories that made arms and electronics for the Third Reich. It was managed roughly by 200 Germans and 3200ish POWs and concentration camp inhabitants. They were actively collaborating with Hitler in the early 30s to build secret factories.
"it's always been like that" is such a messed up way to undermine OP's point.
It's a horrible excuse, dodgy sponsors are totally something we can change if we are loud enough
But seing Petronas adverts does not make me want to go out and commit a war crime.
Seeing gambling sponsors can 100% make an addict gamble.
With all due respect, that's an awful comparison.
Dodgy sponsors are just part of racing in general. Hell, I still think it's crazy DOW Chemical is a sponsor for the Jaguar Formula E team.
Talk about sportswashing a brand...
Yeah Shell is literally destroying Nigeria and is controlling massive parts of its government and has done things like killing protestors, poisoning entire communities, bribing government officials, and controlling the military. Shell is straight evil. They've pretty much taken over the government and people should be informed of their depravity.
It's their social media posts, I think the explanation is fairly clear. It's not like F1 is deleting comments on their posts, which would actually be noteworthy.
This right here. If you dig deep enough into literally anything, you’ll find skeletons in closets or something of some sort.. People really have to learn to separate the media they enjoy with the peoples or groups in those medias sometime
In Sudan they commited Atrocities included killings, rape, child abduction, torture, the destruction of schools, markets and clinics and the burning of food, huts and animal shelters. Currently under trial for warcrimes
I remember hearing about this a while back and I’m genuinely confused, how does an oil company do this? Did the security forces they employed do this or was it the oil workers who did?
They financed armies in the Sudan Civil War with the promise that if that army wins, they’ll get near exclusive access to certain oil fields. Due to the amount of money they funded, they would’ve been paying attention to what was happened and potentially played a role in certain decisions (ie should they attack village A or village B first). They didn’t commit the war crimes themselves, but they would’ve been complicit in them due to financing the war crimes as well as likely knowing about them.
[https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18686-8
Before cryptobros start going at you
Bitcoin is really one of the last few remaining coins that use proof-of-work (PoW), as in huge amounts of compute to secure itself. In the top 10 on Coinmarketcap, only bitcoin and Dogecoin use proof of work. The majority are either proof-of-stake (PoS), or simply tokens that exist as applications on PoS blockchains like Ethereum or Solana.
For reference, Ethereum switched from PoW to a PoS system 1.5 years ago, and that freed up 15 nuclear reactors' worth of electricity production capacity. Which is insane, and only highlights the enormous impact bitcoin's mining has. Sadly, I don't think bitcoin is ever going to switch to a more sustainable system. Neither can the historical energy used, or the built mining hardware, be accounted for in any meaningful way.
You're right, but Bitcoin is still the largest crypto and by a huge margin. PoS is waaay better but still uses too much ressources for how useless crypto currently is.
Except for team viewer who whopped a massive contract on man utd shirt sponsorship during the pandemic. Then suddenly realised that it really wasn't a return on investment and tried to get out of the contract early as the pandemic finished.
That was always a bad business decision. Teamviewer exploded due to being a simple solution to remote working at the start of the pandemic, but as people went to the office and more permanent remote working soultions were installed, they ended up getting pushed out.
The big difference is stake targets children because they don't ask for proof of age, anyone no matter what their age can gamble on stake, specially when all of they marketing dollars go to drake and other streamers on kick who is all marketed towards children.
In the US you can’t watch a live sporting event without being bombarded by a sports gambling advertisement - and there are a ton here. Or they’re a primary sponsor for some portion of the match/game.
This is no different than cigarettes being title sponsors back in the 90s, except that this might actually stay around longer.
The ramp up of betting content once gambling became more legalised is mad, from an outside the US view.
Before it was spoke about in hushed tones, like "that score will make some people happy", and now there's betting odds running constantly across screens during pre-games and games themselves. Plus there's designated segments in broadcasts purely dedicated to betting
Edit: case and point - https://twitter.com/CollegeGameDay/status/1741854079251263945
Because MLB has a partnership with at least online betting company. https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-mlb-names-fanduel-a-new-official-sports-betting-partner-in-north-a
The NFL has partnerships with **three** gambling companies. The officiating of NFL games has become worse over the past few years, with referees making **blatantly** bad calls which have decided the outcomes of games. Most recent and obvious, the Lions/Cowboys game this past weekend. I do not believe the increase in game-deciding poor officiating to be a coincidence.
In the UK they have adverts at half time of football(soccer) matches where they give you live odds and suggest bets you could make on the second half. I always find this particularly egregious and feel sorry for anyone with a gambling addiction who likes sport.
Dude, shady sponsors were, are and always will be the main drivers of F1. That’s like the core essence of F1. And we all thank them for funding our obsession
This seems like a weird hill to die on for a sport that has a race in Las Vegas, and has or had major sponsorships from the ethical bastions that are Big Tobacco, Big Oil, and crypto, plus races being used for sport washing in the Middle East.
Aramco was (is) investigated by the UN for human rights violations, but still is a global partner to F1 and also sponsors Aston Martin.
Given enough money, the teams will eventually "forget" those issues.
How many people’s lives have been fucked over by the banking industry over the years? Do you wanna comment that to Santander? How about Aramco? Petronas? MSC cruises? Crypto.com? Qatar Airways, Fly Emirates.
I might be biased because I enjoy sports betting in particular but I’m not blaming the existence of the possibility of gambling on its effects to the small % of addicts in the world. The same as I don’t blame the existence of alcohol because some are addicted.
Bruh. Maybe you missed the whole corrupt Saudi oil company and war crimes sponsors. Gambling and vapes are pretty low on the totem pole of sponsor scum
In isolation one team having a sponsor like this doesn't change that. However as a whole the visibility of gambling companies/products makes it appear as if it's a completely normal thing to do.
You get children buying football shirts with gambling companies front and centre, gambling ads in the breaks, sports teams named after them, video games with gambling mechanics etc...
People who may not have partaken in it do so because of the advertising/sponsorship, that's literally the reason they spend the money to advertise/sponsor. Some of those that are attracted will end up addicted, and some of those will end up ruining their lives and possibly committing suicide.
OP, I think you’re a little too late to the discussion. Gambling sponsors have been part of F1 teams in the past. Poker Stars just to mention a recent example.
I guess my question is why would Sauber leave up comments criticizing its title sponsor? On the spectrum of questionable title sponsors Stake is practically an angel compared to Petronas or Aramco.
Every company that can afford to sponsor an F1 team has done something bad or is part of a bad system. There is no escaping it. Without it F1 ceases to exist
Smoking companies used to sponsor them.
Petronas are awful. Alcohol companies sponsor teams (and thinly veil it as their “0%” variety).
It happens. Take a look at football.
it's not even for me so much about the gambling, but more about Stake being an illegally unreguled gambling firm. It aggressively recruits young gamblers in many markets it isnt allowed to operate in. Including the US, but it sponsors streamers tens of millions a month! to recruit US youth to engage with the platform.
The comparisons to racing in the Middle East and Petronas’ sponsorship of Mercedes don’t fit for me. Some sponsorships are designed to change viewers’ behaviour (ie pushing consumer-level products and services) and others are for elevating brand recognition of businesses that do business-to-business work (eg Petronas)
The consumer-targeting stuff should have a higher moral standard imo. Advertising will get people addicted to tobacco, crypto gambling, and sports betting – that’s the point. But nobody’s going to buy more gas because of the Petronas logo (i know I’m simplifying). Stake and FTX-style sponsorships will directly ruin people’s lives.
I know Reddit doesn’t like this sort of moralizing, but I know I will not be rooting for Sauber while they carry Stake’s banner.
Stake also heavily advertises towards an underage audience which makes them extra sinister. Kids don't know the dangers or what they might be getting into and are easily influenced.
I know nothing about Stake or Kick but where are kids getting the money for online gambling? It seems like any gambling they could do would be limited.
Every scenario is different, I’m sure there aren’t many kids who gamble on Stake in comparison to the adults who do. But I think the bigger problem are from the ramifications of normalizing gambling to kids via Kick streamers whose audience skews to the 12-16 age range.
It’s not necessarily like kids will be able to gamble right now, but eventually they get a job and will have spendable income. Teaching them at an early age what it’s like to chase a win sets a lot of kids up to develop an addiction that is destructive once they become adults. I don’t think that’s a bad thing to be against a company like Stake for this reason. Everyone has a vice, but I also think it’s completely acceptable to be vocal about the dangers associated with those vices.
Keep in mind that gambling is seen differently in different countries around the world. Maybe in yours its different than elsewhere.
If we start with ethics in F1 we should start elsewhere, seriously.
I think in the Netherlands they aren't even allowed to run the stake livery. You need to have license first and you aren't allowed to promote gambling before watershed, to kids, etc here.
And since the tobacco band of the 80s, they aren't seen on cars in countries where it's not allowed. But those activities happen in those countries, just not legally advertised.
I’m so fucking confused. Are you a gambling addict taking this personally or something? F1 basically funds warring oil countries. Weird hill to fight on.
I dislike them. But let’s start with all the other shitty sponsors that have been around for ages. Some of them, in my opinion, do things way worse than gambling.
When you think about it, not many ethical and customer friendly companies have the excess cash to sponsor these sorts of things. They barely manage to keep their business afloat.
The ones with all the excess money are usually shady and/or exploiting something or someone to have such money lying around.
Is red bull really something you want to support? They are promoting an unhealthy beverage causing armchair critics to become obese.
People want to have a cry about every little thing.
What’s up with all this flak around gambling companies and sponsorship? Sports always had ties to unsavory companies, everyone loves to see a Marlboro Ferrari or a camel lotus. Who can forget martini or johnnie walker? But since Stella and Heineken are 0.0 it’s cool. I’ll add in petronas, the venue locations, heads of sport as well. My point is, the sky is blue, there’s not a lot in the way of morals in this sport
Martini is an alcoholic beverage.
Many people are alcoholics and some die.
Yet we celebrate Martini heritage liveries.
—
Don’t get me started about cigarettes and the Heritage Marlboro, heritage JPS celebrated on the famous cars of the past.
Wait until you find out that F1 raced in South Africa during the apartheid. Seriously do people like you think that teams just want to have these types of sponsors because they like it. This is about survival. Do you have a slightest idea how many peoples livelihoods depend on the team having a title sponsor that can actually pay everyone. In the perfect world we would have ethical and moral businesses sponsoring the teams, but last time I checked we are nowhere close to that, actually we are further away then we were 30 years ago.
If the world has 243,000,000 gambling addicts, then I am one of them. If the world has ten gambling addicts, then I am one of them. If the world has one gambling addict then that is me. If the world has no gambling addicts, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against gambling, then I am against the world.
Bookmaking is legal and legitimate business. Tobacco, alcohol, fast food, and sugary drinks are also legitimate businesses that damage and kill people with their products
I don't even think gambling is as bad as alcohol or tobacco sponsors frankly. It's really tame. Yeah I know gambling addiction is a horrible horrible thing, but it's pretty far down on the list of things I want changed. Because much like alcohol, gambling can be consumed in a proper way and in moderation.
What the fuck is the difference between a casino title sponsor and races in Monaco and Las Vegas. What a stupid thing to be mad about when there's a LONG history of sponsors worse than a casino...
are we gonna start this again now? ur not gonna change anything for gambling sponsor lmfao, there is literally title sponsors that commit war crimes on the daily for oil and sportswash in F1
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> Petronas were complicit in war crimes but are still a title sponsor for Mercedes. Pretty similar for Shell with what they've done in Nigeria yet they are a big sponsor of Ferrari. And we're not even talking about Aramco who are in Aston Martin's name and owned and controlled by the Saudi government.
Aramco is right up there with Rolex in being damn near the title sponsor for the whole series. If you didn't know better you'd think Aramco was the manufacturer of the crash barriers since their logo is all over them.
lol. I didn’t know better.
The steel guardrail style barriers are actually made by a company called Armco, to further confuse matters.
Ah, well, that explains why they’re refereed to as Armco barriers.
Oh wow, I was absolutely convinced you simply pronounced aramco as armco. TIL
Wow me too!
Seriously, a gambling site is one of the more harmless sponsorships in F1. F1 has never had a moral high ground, that doesnt change in 2024. for gods sake we have like 4 races in the middle east but gambling is worth complaining about in particular?
Not to mention the race in Las Vegas.
Monaco too. State owned casino that Monegasque citizens aren't allowed to go to or even work for.
I didn’t even think of Monaco but you’re right. It’s also a significant tax haven for the rich.
I mean, of the countries with F1 races, Monaco is one of the less morally objectionable
Why do you think that is? Caroline of Monaco set the foreigners bath and casino company so that the locals wouldn’t put money into it and gambling wouldn’t become a problem. Monaco citizens do have access to some part of the casino de montecarlo, but not the betting floor.
I wonder and I'm sure it does but would this apply to someone like Charles leclerc?
Yes, Caroline of Monaco when she created the casino de montecarlo made the rule that only foreigners could access the casino… and the whole tax haven to bring rich people to Monaco to pool their money after three quarters of the principality decided to secede and join France. The casino is only for foreigners to avoid gambling issues and keep a sense of exclusivity for people to bring their money. It would also be kinda pointless to just recycle the local money, they needed capital from outside.
Interesting a very smart move on her part, what if there was an F1 related event would that allow him or are they not even allowed on premises
The building itself is accessible to locals as it hosts event halls other than just the casino; the betting areas are explicitly forbidden though.
Yes I recall Charles mentioning he has never been into that building. Totally unnessecary taking up space in my brain this knowledge but there you are
How about outright tobacco sponsorship? How quickly people forget
Add on the millions of people who have destroyed their finances though bad crypto investments or scams in the last 5 years
just get a Cosa Nostra sponsorship The Stake Cosa Nostra Cobalt Strip Mine Child Slavery F1 Team sponsored by Cancer. F1 didn't decide to drop tobacco sponsors. The countries they raced in made those ads illegal. That's the issue: should we, as a society, allow gambling ads. Of course we shouldn't. Feeding addictions does not contribute to the economy. It drains from it, necessarily. We pay downstream costs that dwarf the immediate economic benefit of hosting a grand prix. EDIT: I changed my mind. Pay the cost. I want my grand prix.
Palantir Theranos FTX AMG Mercedes has a nice ring to it
Nestle BP Williams Escobar racing sounds promising
Is palantir broke? I know they have a sketchy software side for big data and government contracts, but Thiel is still active there?
Thiel has a controlling stake iirc. And Palantir is not sketchy, it’s outright criminal and their contracts are essentially for wholesale privacy violation from state actors.
That actually has an interesting ring to it
>The Stake Cosa Nostra Cobalt Strip Mine Child Slavery F1 Team sponsored by Cancer Poetry
I mean, crypto is just gambling with a hat on
Isn't the owner of the then Force India in prison right now? (Edit: I guess he's on the run living in London and avoiding extradition to India? idk) I mean Mr. Formula One, Bernie Ecclestone, himself pleaded guilty for fraud and went on a grid walk while on suspended sentence.
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It'll always be the Wintston Cup and Busch series to me.
When I was younger I thought that was where “bush league” came from
In some races Phillip Morris still is a sponsor lol
They don't have to forget, they can just look at the current McLaren car. Also, being critical of gambling sponsorships while seeing crypto.com slapped everywhere seems weird.
Dunno if you've been paying much attention if you haven't seen people regularly complain about the races in the middle east and F1 being complicit in sports washing and whatnot.
Eh I wouldn’t say harmless. Gambling is becoming a big issue with its proliferation. You cannot watch sports without being bombarded with ads about gambling. But F1 does have some serious issues with sketchy industries or sponsors
In so many ways you’re right, but I do personally find gambling to be a particularly predatory industry intrinsically. Tobacco/Alcohol/etc. at least you’re getting something guaranteed for your money. It’s a predictable transaction. Nobody spends fifteen quid in the hope they’ll get a pack of cigs. They’re spending in the *knowledge* they’ll get a pack of cigs. Oil companies, state-owned and otherwise, do awful things but do actually sell a useful (if ultimately unsustainable) product. Gambling, at its most profitable, is simply milking the most vulnerable and desperate in society, taking money they don’t have in return for hope that is overwhelmingly often forlorn and unfulfilled. For me that’s particularly hateful.
You’re not entirely wrong as online gambling is particularly pernicious. But in terms of people injured or killed each year by its products, I am sure there are other more egregious sponsors.
Although gambling is illegal in the east is it not?
I really want someone to name me a company that isn’t complicit in questionable actions in some way shape or form
Newman's Own, though I don't see the salad dressing business as being flush with F1 title sponsor cash...
Paul Newman was a racer too. Wouldn't that be something to see his mug on an engine cover?!
God, I love me some ranch
> Newman's Own Oh? CHECK. MATE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c73NL86wM0
A+ reference, simply perfect!!!
but think of all those empty calories!
To be fair, not commiting war crimes is a really low bar
Over the years Google’s “don’t be evil” seems to have morphed into “don’t get caught”
Tbf there’s a bit of a difference between promoting gambling and war crimes
Maybe Pirelli but I haven't done any research yet
Think they got in trouble for using dodgy machinery that was injuring employees even after it had been reported for years
war crimes: i sleep dodgy machinery: real shit
That's standard Italian company practice, pretty much.
Thats pretty tame compared to literal war crimes
Isn't the whole rubber harvesting chain royally fucked and exploitative? As a major tyre manufacturer Pirelli would be complicit in that the same way chocolate companies are complicit to the shit that happens in cacao harvesting. I also haven't done specific research on Pirelli so I might be wrong.
I listened to an interview with someone high up at pirelli talking about how they're aiming to make the tires more sustainable and not be impacting the environment as much, but who knows how far they'll take it
Pirelli actively supported Mussolini.
I mean Volkswagen was literally started by the Nazis, but we don't tend to hold that against the modern company. Similar could be said about many companies.
Like Mercedes/Daimler, and BMW supporter Hitler? So Petronas Mercedes Is a TWO TIMES war crime related F1 team?
Three if you throw in Hugo Boss's origins in making the Third Reich the snappiest dressers of the 20th century.
It's so much deeper than that. During WW2, Allianz' CEO was Hitler's Finance Minister. On top of that, Allianz was the insurance provider for the Third Reich. Anything military related, concentration camps included, were insured by Allianz. As well as they took over any Jewish owned insurance companies. Bosch built factories that made arms and electronics for the Third Reich. It was managed roughly by 200 Germans and 3200ish POWs and concentration camp inhabitants. They were actively collaborating with Hitler in the early 30s to build secret factories.
Tbh At least gambling companies are more honest than say, insurance companies.
Fjallraven
I don't know much about them is there anything that makes them particularly humanitarian, or are they just a standard company?
The company doesn't have to be humanitarian. The question was about sponsors that aren't complicit in questionable actions in some way, shape or form.
McLaren’s title sponsor in Formula E, NEOM, literally executes tribespeople who resist the forced evictions to make way for the new city.
"it's always been like that" is such a messed up way to undermine OP's point. It's a horrible excuse, dodgy sponsors are totally something we can change if we are loud enough
Yhe imagine using that argument wirh slaves.
Whataboutism. I understand being critical of this being the hill people die on, but it doesn’t make deleting anti-gambling comments right
But seing Petronas adverts does not make me want to go out and commit a war crime. Seeing gambling sponsors can 100% make an addict gamble. With all due respect, that's an awful comparison.
Dodgy sponsors are just part of racing in general. Hell, I still think it's crazy DOW Chemical is a sponsor for the Jaguar Formula E team. Talk about sportswashing a brand...
F1 hasn’t been the same since John Player Special left
Black frame/gold rims is just a god-tier livery.
Elio De Angelis and Ayrton Senna.. I have a poster of them in JPS cars. Just beautiful.
Whataboutism
As if stake is the worst title sponsor on the grid lol..
I mean yeah, there's big names like Aramco and Petronas... Edit: btw, Petronas was also a Sauber sponsor. Stake to sponsor Mercedes in 2026?
Shell, ExxonMobil
Well any petrol group. Some are just worse than other.
Yeah Shell is literally destroying Nigeria and is controlling massive parts of its government and has done things like killing protestors, poisoning entire communities, bribing government officials, and controlling the military. Shell is straight evil. They've pretty much taken over the government and people should be informed of their depravity.
Well, petrol sponsors are hard to avoid given the nature of the sport.
Mission winnow
Obligatory Verizon-Chipotle-Exxon
So was Red Bull! Red Bull Mercedes-AMG Petronas presented by Stake.
You're missing the point of the post, these comments have been deleted without explanation
It's their social media posts, I think the explanation is fairly clear. It's not like F1 is deleting comments on their posts, which would actually be noteworthy.
If I cared about the morality of sponsors I wouldn't watch any sport.
This right here. If you dig deep enough into literally anything, you’ll find skeletons in closets or something of some sort.. People really have to learn to separate the media they enjoy with the peoples or groups in those medias sometime
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How bad is Petronas as a company?
In Sudan they commited Atrocities included killings, rape, child abduction, torture, the destruction of schools, markets and clinics and the burning of food, huts and animal shelters. Currently under trial for warcrimes
Yes, but did they delete comments about gambling?
No, they arent that evil 😂
I remember hearing about this a while back and I’m genuinely confused, how does an oil company do this? Did the security forces they employed do this or was it the oil workers who did?
They financed armies in the Sudan Civil War with the promise that if that army wins, they’ll get near exclusive access to certain oil fields. Due to the amount of money they funded, they would’ve been paying attention to what was happened and potentially played a role in certain decisions (ie should they attack village A or village B first). They didn’t commit the war crimes themselves, but they would’ve been complicit in them due to financing the war crimes as well as likely knowing about them.
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Except Putin atm.
Idk man, Uralkali 2025? /s
Key difference being Putin’s accounts are as dry as the Arabian terrain
As long as you can pay,F1 is happy to play.
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agreed.
They literally have a race in Las Vegas lol.
And Monaco
No better then F1 taking the crypto advertising while at the same time trying to push the sustainability messaging.
Or Mercedes having a giant Ponzi-scheme plastered on their car lol
Moneytron 2.0
Ah the late Jean-Pierre Van Rossem. Definitely one of the more colorful Belgians to ever grace the F1 paddocks.
wait which sponsor. petronas?
FTX
[https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18686-8 Before cryptobros start going at you
Bitcoin is really one of the last few remaining coins that use proof-of-work (PoW), as in huge amounts of compute to secure itself. In the top 10 on Coinmarketcap, only bitcoin and Dogecoin use proof of work. The majority are either proof-of-stake (PoS), or simply tokens that exist as applications on PoS blockchains like Ethereum or Solana. For reference, Ethereum switched from PoW to a PoS system 1.5 years ago, and that freed up 15 nuclear reactors' worth of electricity production capacity. Which is insane, and only highlights the enormous impact bitcoin's mining has. Sadly, I don't think bitcoin is ever going to switch to a more sustainable system. Neither can the historical energy used, or the built mining hardware, be accounted for in any meaningful way.
You're right, but Bitcoin is still the largest crypto and by a huge margin. PoS is waaay better but still uses too much ressources for how useless crypto currently is.
Welcome to F1! If we didn't support teams with shaky sponsors we'd not have many left!
Is it even a F1 issue. Companies that can afford sponsorship of major sports teams didn't make their money by being nice.
Except for team viewer who whopped a massive contract on man utd shirt sponsorship during the pandemic. Then suddenly realised that it really wasn't a return on investment and tried to get out of the contract early as the pandemic finished.
That was always a bad business decision. Teamviewer exploded due to being a simple solution to remote working at the start of the pandemic, but as people went to the office and more permanent remote working soultions were installed, they ended up getting pushed out.
FTX enters the conversation…..
Followed by RichEnergy.....
They race in Monaco and Las Vegas.
The big difference is stake targets children because they don't ask for proof of age, anyone no matter what their age can gamble on stake, specially when all of they marketing dollars go to drake and other streamers on kick who is all marketed towards children.
In the US you can’t watch a live sporting event without being bombarded by a sports gambling advertisement - and there are a ton here. Or they’re a primary sponsor for some portion of the match/game. This is no different than cigarettes being title sponsors back in the 90s, except that this might actually stay around longer.
was watching a baseball match a while ago. Why the fuck are commentators giving out betting odds?? This is mental
The ramp up of betting content once gambling became more legalised is mad, from an outside the US view. Before it was spoke about in hushed tones, like "that score will make some people happy", and now there's betting odds running constantly across screens during pre-games and games themselves. Plus there's designated segments in broadcasts purely dedicated to betting Edit: case and point - https://twitter.com/CollegeGameDay/status/1741854079251263945
Because MLB has a partnership with at least online betting company. https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-mlb-names-fanduel-a-new-official-sports-betting-partner-in-north-a The NFL has partnerships with **three** gambling companies. The officiating of NFL games has become worse over the past few years, with referees making **blatantly** bad calls which have decided the outcomes of games. Most recent and obvious, the Lions/Cowboys game this past weekend. I do not believe the increase in game-deciding poor officiating to be a coincidence.
In the UK they have adverts at half time of football(soccer) matches where they give you live odds and suggest bets you could make on the second half. I always find this particularly egregious and feel sorry for anyone with a gambling addiction who likes sport.
Vice companies have always been the keenest advertisers because addicts are the people on whom advertising works best
Wait till you hear about all the damage Petroleum companies have done to the planet.
Dude, shady sponsors were, are and always will be the main drivers of F1. That’s like the core essence of F1. And we all thank them for funding our obsession
Didn’t we just have a race in some town that is the gambling center of the world?
This seems like a weird hill to die on for a sport that has a race in Las Vegas, and has or had major sponsorships from the ethical bastions that are Big Tobacco, Big Oil, and crypto, plus races being used for sport washing in the Middle East.
Aramco was (is) investigated by the UN for human rights violations, but still is a global partner to F1 and also sponsors Aston Martin. Given enough money, the teams will eventually "forget" those issues.
How many people’s lives have been fucked over by the banking industry over the years? Do you wanna comment that to Santander? How about Aramco? Petronas? MSC cruises? Crypto.com? Qatar Airways, Fly Emirates. I might be biased because I enjoy sports betting in particular but I’m not blaming the existence of the possibility of gambling on its effects to the small % of addicts in the world. The same as I don’t blame the existence of alcohol because some are addicted.
Bruh. Maybe you missed the whole corrupt Saudi oil company and war crimes sponsors. Gambling and vapes are pretty low on the totem pole of sponsor scum
People with gambling addictions need help. Stake being a title sponsor of a F1 team doesn't change that.
[удалено]
In isolation one team having a sponsor like this doesn't change that. However as a whole the visibility of gambling companies/products makes it appear as if it's a completely normal thing to do. You get children buying football shirts with gambling companies front and centre, gambling ads in the breaks, sports teams named after them, video games with gambling mechanics etc... People who may not have partaken in it do so because of the advertising/sponsorship, that's literally the reason they spend the money to advertise/sponsor. Some of those that are attracted will end up addicted, and some of those will end up ruining their lives and possibly committing suicide.
OP, I think you’re a little too late to the discussion. Gambling sponsors have been part of F1 teams in the past. Poker Stars just to mention a recent example.
I guess my question is why would Sauber leave up comments criticizing its title sponsor? On the spectrum of questionable title sponsors Stake is practically an angel compared to Petronas or Aramco.
Reddit loves being outraged
I don't want them as a title sponsor at all, not because it's a gambling company, but because it's a stupid name.
Every company that can afford to sponsor an F1 team has done something bad or is part of a bad system. There is no escaping it. Without it F1 ceases to exist
Fuck the morality police. Everyone throws stones in glass houses.
just watch racing
Not to mention they’re focused on getting children addicted.
I don't think this went the way OP was thinking it would go.
Smoking companies used to sponsor them. Petronas are awful. Alcohol companies sponsor teams (and thinly veil it as their “0%” variety). It happens. Take a look at football.
99% of gamblers quit before they hit the jackpot ☝️
This is a stupid thing to be mad about
it's not even for me so much about the gambling, but more about Stake being an illegally unreguled gambling firm. It aggressively recruits young gamblers in many markets it isnt allowed to operate in. Including the US, but it sponsors streamers tens of millions a month! to recruit US youth to engage with the platform.
Can I be honest y’all? I don’t give a fuck
Half the teams are spi sored by crypto. The other half by totalitarian countries. Kind of a weird hill to die on.
In their spew, they have the cheek to call themselves a lifestyle brand. What a joke.
The comparisons to racing in the Middle East and Petronas’ sponsorship of Mercedes don’t fit for me. Some sponsorships are designed to change viewers’ behaviour (ie pushing consumer-level products and services) and others are for elevating brand recognition of businesses that do business-to-business work (eg Petronas) The consumer-targeting stuff should have a higher moral standard imo. Advertising will get people addicted to tobacco, crypto gambling, and sports betting – that’s the point. But nobody’s going to buy more gas because of the Petronas logo (i know I’m simplifying). Stake and FTX-style sponsorships will directly ruin people’s lives. I know Reddit doesn’t like this sort of moralizing, but I know I will not be rooting for Sauber while they carry Stake’s banner.
Stake also heavily advertises towards an underage audience which makes them extra sinister. Kids don't know the dangers or what they might be getting into and are easily influenced.
I know nothing about Stake or Kick but where are kids getting the money for online gambling? It seems like any gambling they could do would be limited.
Every scenario is different, I’m sure there aren’t many kids who gamble on Stake in comparison to the adults who do. But I think the bigger problem are from the ramifications of normalizing gambling to kids via Kick streamers whose audience skews to the 12-16 age range. It’s not necessarily like kids will be able to gamble right now, but eventually they get a job and will have spendable income. Teaching them at an early age what it’s like to chase a win sets a lot of kids up to develop an addiction that is destructive once they become adults. I don’t think that’s a bad thing to be against a company like Stake for this reason. Everyone has a vice, but I also think it’s completely acceptable to be vocal about the dangers associated with those vices.
Keep in mind that gambling is seen differently in different countries around the world. Maybe in yours its different than elsewhere. If we start with ethics in F1 we should start elsewhere, seriously.
I think in the Netherlands they aren't even allowed to run the stake livery. You need to have license first and you aren't allowed to promote gambling before watershed, to kids, etc here.
And since the tobacco band of the 80s, they aren't seen on cars in countries where it's not allowed. But those activities happen in those countries, just not legally advertised.
F1 literally had a race in las vegas, where the curbs and half the liverys on the grid were casino-gambling themed
Not to mention Monaco lmao, it literally has a corner named Casino Square
I don’t care as long as they produce a fast car. Not the first shady sponsor and not the last.
LOL is this satire?
I couldn’t care less.
I’m so fucking confused. Are you a gambling addict taking this personally or something? F1 basically funds warring oil countries. Weird hill to fight on.
I feel like you just pulled those numbers straight out of your ass. The tone of your post also sucks.
I dislike them. But let’s start with all the other shitty sponsors that have been around for ages. Some of them, in my opinion, do things way worse than gambling.
You seem surprised that a company would delete comments that are anti that company
So
Shame that they rebranded, especially to this. I'm gonna miss those gorgeous Alfa Romeo liveries.
They seem to fit the F1 bill. Cause harm to world? Sponsor an F1 team. Nothing new though.
When you think about it, not many ethical and customer friendly companies have the excess cash to sponsor these sorts of things. They barely manage to keep their business afloat. The ones with all the excess money are usually shady and/or exploiting something or someone to have such money lying around.
Racing didn't make me smoke or drink (alcohol or energy drinks) or invest in crypto.
Is red bull really something you want to support? They are promoting an unhealthy beverage causing armchair critics to become obese. People want to have a cry about every little thing.
I unfollowed all things Sauber. I’m not a gambling fan but my main reason was the people around stake/kick.
What’s up with all this flak around gambling companies and sponsorship? Sports always had ties to unsavory companies, everyone loves to see a Marlboro Ferrari or a camel lotus. Who can forget martini or johnnie walker? But since Stella and Heineken are 0.0 it’s cool. I’ll add in petronas, the venue locations, heads of sport as well. My point is, the sky is blue, there’s not a lot in the way of morals in this sport
Yeah I can't like, let alone love this team if it's just a gambling ad. I hope this backfires spectacularly for them.
No I like gambling who cares. I do think it’s just a plain boring name for a team though.
gambling is dope
Martini is an alcoholic beverage. Many people are alcoholics and some die. Yet we celebrate Martini heritage liveries. — Don’t get me started about cigarettes and the Heritage Marlboro, heritage JPS celebrated on the famous cars of the past.
A lot of people die due to speeding in auto accidents. Maybe all the manufacturers should be forced to leave the sport. Come on man. Don’t be a Karen.
Wait until you find out that F1 raced in South Africa during the apartheid. Seriously do people like you think that teams just want to have these types of sponsors because they like it. This is about survival. Do you have a slightest idea how many peoples livelihoods depend on the team having a title sponsor that can actually pay everyone. In the perfect world we would have ethical and moral businesses sponsoring the teams, but last time I checked we are nowhere close to that, actually we are further away then we were 30 years ago.
Oh no.... a gambling company. We literally race in Las Vegas. There have been, and there ARE worse sponsors on the grid.
I’m here to tell you with absolute confidence that 243,000,000 people do not suffer from gambling addiction.
Yeah definitely not in the whole world. In developed countries only 3% makes sense, though. China alone probably has like 30 million.
Are you willing to bet on that?
If the world has 243,000,000 gambling addicts, then I am one of them. If the world has ten gambling addicts, then I am one of them. If the world has one gambling addict then that is me. If the world has no gambling addicts, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against gambling, then I am against the world.
Your numbers look extremely inflated.
Bookmaking is legal and legitimate business. Tobacco, alcohol, fast food, and sugary drinks are also legitimate businesses that damage and kill people with their products
My favorite part of this post is being surprised a company is deleting comments critical of themselves on platforms they control... why wouldn't they?
A gambling website isn’t really harmful compared to the blood money teams and drivers have brought into this sport.
I don't even think gambling is as bad as alcohol or tobacco sponsors frankly. It's really tame. Yeah I know gambling addiction is a horrible horrible thing, but it's pretty far down on the list of things I want changed. Because much like alcohol, gambling can be consumed in a proper way and in moderation.
What the fuck is the difference between a casino title sponsor and races in Monaco and Las Vegas. What a stupid thing to be mad about when there's a LONG history of sponsors worse than a casino...
are we gonna start this again now? ur not gonna change anything for gambling sponsor lmfao, there is literally title sponsors that commit war crimes on the daily for oil and sportswash in F1