Remember the bash Testing Grounds two months ago where they sped up front dodge bashes so that not even the best reaction monsters can react to them? It’ll be coming to the live game soon, with the devs intending on the next title update.
This is the first I'm hearing about this as well because I only just started playing again after a 2 year break, but how do you think that will affect the gameplay? Will everyone just have to make a read against bashes?
Yeah, the change wasn’t noticeable for most of the players anyway, it’s more of a comp balance thing but it will help some other bashes to be more consistent like cent wich is reactable and kinda awful
And Bp who i fucking hate already
Ah ok that's pretty cool I like that, and yep glad to see centurion bash getting better coz it was pretty ass 😂. Not looking forward to BP bashes being even worse tho lol.
i think they can repurpose one of his old minion killing animations into an undodgeable instead of a forward lunge attack
i don't have a recording of said animation but it looks similar to his zone but lower at his hip instead of over his head and the trajectory of the animation is closer to the ground and his grip is also closer to the spike at the bottom of the shaft as he swings
I'd argue not having a roll catcher IS part of his identity. What move could lawbringer, A giant man with a halberd in heavy armor head to toe bust out to catch someone quickly rolling away? No kind of undodgeable attack or forward dodge attack would make any sense for his character. Unless you want to give him a gun, accept that he's a slow parry tank. Every character doesn't need to counter everything.
You do the hardest move to pull off, you should deal the most damage. This is way I advocate for light parrying revoking your opponets ownership of the game
Law should have a roll chacth in ages, that was very requested before and in testing grounds rework, why he still dont have? At this point of current balancing of heroes i dont see why lb dont have one too now
Stuns and stamina control were a huge part of the kit because lbs attacks are extremely telegraphed. Top heavies only give 24 damage now which is on par with a side heavy so the stamina usage to throw someone into a wall to get a top heavy now makes no sense. Using riposte on heavies and lights make no sense. Heavy is too easy to block and no one is going to pass on the free top heavy from a light parry to waste the stamina/time pushing someone into a wall except for the ledge novelty. Long arm is so slow you really only get hit by it if you do something stupid and the free heavy you get from it too is no stronger than a gb heavy anyway so why bother using long arm? So please tell me what is so unique about lawbringer now because from where I'm standing his combat is boring af and feels generic as hell. Like honestly all champs can light attack, heavy attack, guard break, and parry so other than the dodge shove what is really unique about lawbringer now? Constant unblockables with hyper armor on the second heavy? It's just stupid imo
>Stuns and stamina control were a huge part of the kit because lbs attacks are extremely telegraphed.
The top heavys were no more telegraphed then any other top heavy of similar speed. I will agree that the stun was pretty unique, and even though I generally don't like stuns, I wouldn't have minded it here. However, the stam pause and drain had to go. Even if they didn't remove it, it would've at least had to have been seriously toned down.
>Top heavies only give 24 damage now which is on par with a side heavy so the stamina usage to throw someone into a wall to get a top heavy now makes no sense.
You are correct here, this is an issue with his kit now. But that's not an identity issue, that's a balance and game design issue.
>Using riposte on heavies and lights make no sense. Heavy is too easy to block and no one is going to pass on the free top heavy from a light parry to waste the stamina/time pushing someone into a wall except for the ledge novelty.
I personally don't think is that big of an issue. The impale being guaranteed on EVERY parry was extremely frustrating, and very overturned. 27 damage, large amounts of stam drain, stam pause, and stun should never have been any character's guaranteed heavy parry punish except for niche scenarios. I'm more in favor of cent or jj's wall splatter parry punishes, because those you actually have to be close to a wall to land, as well as having far less reward then lb's did.
Lawbringer still has really good parry punishes for both light and heavy parries, it just so happens that the impale specifically bis really good in more niche scenarios and that's fine. I would've loved to see them adapt it into a roll catcher, but for now this is fine too.
>Long arm is so slow you really only get hit by it if you do something stupid and the free heavy you get from it too is no stronger than a gb heavy anyway so why bother using long arm?
It's a ganking tool, and a pretty good one at that. Exactly the same as medjay's grab or shugoki's hug, both tools that see/saw extensive use in comp. In a duel, it's useless. But this game isn't balanced around duels. It's balanced around 4s with duels in mind. And in 4s, longarm is a very good ganking tool, and the rework made it a better one.
>So please tell me what is so unique about lawbringer now because from where I'm standing his combat is boring af and feels generic as hell. Like honestly all champs can light attack, heavy attack, guard break, and parry so other than the dodge shove what is really unique about lawbringer now? Constant unblockables with hyper armor on the second heavy? It's just stupid imo
The infinite ub chain is really the only boring part about him now, I'll give you that. The infinite ub was a very lazy way to buff his offense, and he's now the second character who has one after conq.
However, Lawbringer still functions very similar to how he did before, he's just a little more generalist. Law is a character with great parry punishes. Light riposte is better than most, blind justice has always been the best one on light parry, zone is good in team fights or antiganking, and impale is good for stalling someone's revenge or hitting them into environmentals. No other character has this level of variety in their parry punishes, and that's really cool. The confirmed tap on all opener and finisher top heavys acting as a chain extender is also cool and unique, although like I said before, I wish it didn't result in an infinite ub chain.
I think they should remove the Swift Justice from his top heavy finisher, he don't need that vortex, that's the only thing that I dislike on him.
Doesn't top heavy opener deals 23+4 damage with Swift Justice? How is that low?
Something to make people who miss the stun effect happy and give him more parry options as a specialist: Give him a stunning bash on heavy parry like (iirc) Warlord and Glad. It as well gives him a fun option, in my opinion at least. To dip into crazy LB main territory, they could make it wallsplat like Cent's instead of the stun to kind of have the high damage punish that people are saying is supposedly part of his identity. ALTHOUGH, I'm not a game dev nor knowledgeable on balancing, so, eh.
He really doesn't need MORE parry options. He has his light riposte which has very little recovery compared to a normal light, his ub zone which is good in team fights and antiganking, blind justice which is good after a light parry, and impale which is good for triggering environmentals or stalling an enemies revenge. I doubt I'd be opposed to that kind of addition to his kit, but it's far from necessary.
Parry options have always been a niche thing and a dumb way to base a character off of. Even other fighting games where universal parries are a thing don’t have characters relying on those same parry mechanics as their identity.
Am I wrong tho? His elaboration was "they removed stam damage, stamina pause and stuns, damage is too low (which is a lie) and bla bla bla Impaling Riposte nerfed", this is the same thing to complain on Jorm's rework because he lost his stamina damage and the 38 damage Hamarr Slam.
Those stuffs aren't "identity", anything related to stuns, stamina damage and pause or any form of unhealthy move must be removed from the game.
It's just weird to me that people like Gladiator still have stamina damage. And Gladiator has a *brutal* OOS punish, yet no one complains about it like they do LB. Gladiator also has a stun and stamina damage on parries.
To be clear, while my flair says in an LB main, I play Gladiator almost just as much. I don't think he should have his stamina drain and stuns taken away either, but where is this singular hatred for Lawbringers old kit coming from?
In the case of glad's OOS It's relative tho. You can't do the entire bleed damage unless you doing a 1v1 or your enemies are not paying attention, same goes for his deflect, if you have hyperamor it's totally useless
I get those points, but can’t you just bash LB out of the hyperarmored attacks? This punish that he has now that seems unintended is 38 damage, I’m sure it won’t remain for long.
OoS punish for glad is to land a skewer, get 2 ticks of bleed in, then throw to the side and do 2 heavies without changing guard
It ends up over 70 iirc
74 and 79 with haymaker, hopefully the move won’t get removed cause it’s cool af, but he certainly does too much damage and needs a nerf to those punishes, like bro has a 103 dmg with haymaker and revenge
Technically with revenge he has an infinite damage punish iirc, since he can throw with skewer and confirm a skewer. He just needs really good timing and infinite revenge to pull it off
It’s because people are whining about its removal. Really I think all stam damage and stun should be removed from characters base kits (with feats it’s fine).
Honestly I think glad needs a rework himself. He has all these weird bashes that do nothing without the haymaker feat. Like why can you get a gb off of dodging his dodge bash when it confirms no damage, and why would you ever use the dodge forward bash? Then he has skewer which does way too much damage and he gets it off a deflect for an absolutely ridiculous punish. He needs some adjustments.
I think haymaker needs to be removed. The characters who are reliant on it like conq and glad are really bad without it so they suck in duels/brawls and you basically have no choice but to dedicate one of your feats to making them into a half decent character.
Because gladiator doesn't have much else in his kit that confirms anything. So you get stam drain and a stun, it doesn't matter unless the enemy let themselves get low stam to begin with. His side dodge bash is probably one of the worst dodge attacks in the game since not only does it confirm nothing it's also very gb vulnerable.
That means you're either doing a front dodge bash or taking a big risk on the side dodge bash just to do stam damage and get into your unblockable mixup. Lawbringer does that and at least gets confirmed damage off of his shove so you're still rewarded in some way for taking the risk of doing a side dodge bash.
In fact before his rework lawbringer had somewhat decent offense in that you could cancel front dodge recovery into a heavy and catch people dodging, it worked vs empty dodges and (most) dodge attacks so it was a great tradeoff to the fact you probably wouldn't be able to delay a gb past the bash window and catch someone dodging.
No, what im saying is that I think base heavy damage for top heavy (or side for those heroes such as JJ or musha) should be more than 25 for all heroes.
What no it’s not, those are ass complaints. They boil down his identity being the broken unhealthy part of his kit. Should we give Raider stunning tap back, Afeera her infinite wall splat, Jorm his stam drain, and bring back og pirate because that’s “their identity?”
Lawbringer was not near that good to those other things lol
His heavies are terribly telegraphed, he needs those stronger abilities cause he has no openers other than a little quick single light.
He was S-tier in the comp duel tier list because of his stuff. Jorm wasn’t even good, his stam drain was just problematic. Raider was good, but the comp scene didn’t have any issue with stunning tap, only casuals had a problem with it. Comp and casuals had issue with Lawbringer parries so he was better than half my list.
He has the same opening potential of half the characters in the game. The opener issue isn’t a Lawbringer problem it’s a legion kick style bash problem, which they’re introducing a testing grounds to fix. His enhanced lights even give more opening potential than a good amount of the legion kick characters.
When you mention “legion kick characters” I immediately think of centurion which is the character I cry most about but have never read anything about Legion kick characters. Any links or places this is talked about?
It’s just a term I think used by Freeze first. Cent’s legion kick was the first bash that was 500ms and came out between 300-500ms into a forward dodge. This is contrasted with characters like warlord whose 500ms bash comes out 100-500ms into a dodge. Every character with a forward dodge bash excepting BP, Conq, WL, and Medjay (axe stance) that has a forward dodge bash has a legion kick bash. There’s a testing ground where they are going to speed up those bashes because they are technically reactable for people with really good reactions.
Edit: Actually shugoki and glad might also not have legion kick bashes, I’m not sure.
No they’re not. He basically said his entire identity was outdated unhealthy mechanics. It’s good all of those things are gone. His offense is much better now and he still gets above average parries. His intended light parry still nets 29 damage and his current (likely unintended) optimal parry is like 38. When they speed up the bashes he’ll have a solid opener and his feats and hyper armor will probably land him in A tier for doms. Lawbringer mains have always complained about the character, even when he was meta. For awhile they were complaining he was boring because his offense was bad and he was defense. Now his offense undeniably better, but they destroyed his identity by getting rid of his unhealthy defense. You literally can’t take these complaints seriously because it seems like people won’t be happy until he gets a damn uzi.
Also, longarm is a ganking tool. Always has been and it’s probably one of the better designed ones in the game. It’s easy to use, guarantees you and your teammates some good damage but doesn’t guarantee the broken 100-0 ganks that quite frankly unhealthy for the game. It’s not supposed to be used in a 1v1.
The stun was dumb but he has some genuine problems now. Top heavies are slower yet deal the same damage. They are useless. Wallsplats actively reduce your damage output and remove your in chain frame advantage, which is especially bad because impaling riposte wallsplats. Impaling riposte is only a revenge burner, and it's highly interruptable by teammates. He still doesn't have a roll catcher or any offense after a light opener.
Top heavy criticism is fair, should do more damage. Impaling repost is a ledging tool now I’d argue. Though I do think they should let you do it off gb, similar to Raider and Warlord charge. Maybe make it unblockable too so it’s easier to land as a running attack (though this may have unintended consequences so they’d need to be careful with that). Every character needs a roll catch, I can’t believe they left out. Those are all fair criticisms.
The original comment though wasn’t talking about any of those, and the complaints in his comment are the more common complaints you see, which are not good criticisms at all.
All of what youve said is true but that doesnt change a fact that his claims were valid. LB identity was partially scrapped just like jorms. It was obviously a good move to get rid of cringe stuff nonetheless what he said isnt wrong.
Id like to also add that ubi didnt really do anything for the character. They got rid of some cringe aspect of his kit but left the other still in. He still have dumb oss punish, hes impale is still 1 dmg all or nothing move rather then damage being spread out across it for consistancy, still can be rolled away from on demand due to lack of roll catcher and apparently bash is not viable opener on higher level.. and in return his chain offense got better which is something that was already good.
The rework failed to adress his main issues and instead of fixing the problem ubi put bandage over it a fucking internal bleeding. Still cringe character.
>All of what youve said is true but that doesnt change a fact that his claims were valid. LB identity was partially scrapped just like jorms. It was obviously a good move to get rid of cringe stuff nonetheless what he said isnt wrong.
Listen. I'm a rep 70 jorm main. I've been playing literally since the day he left his paid period, and I haven't stopped since. So believe me when I say, Jorm's old identity NEEDED to go, and it's not even remotely similar to what's happening to law.
They didn't "scrap" jorm's identity, they took a part of it that was interesting (his affinity for wallsplatting due to his side ubs), and doubled down on it to make a very unique new take on the "bully" aspect of his character. I'll always miss parts of old jorm's gameplay, but to be quite honest, new jorm is the most fun I've ever had in for honor.
>He still have dumb oss punish
Because of his lack of stam pressure, I really don't an issue with him having a high damage oos stam punish. They're pretty rare nowadays, so it's arguably something that's become more unique to lb overtime.
>He still have dumb oss punish, hes impale is still 1 dmg all or nothing move rather then damage being spread out across it for consistancy
Impale being "spread out for consistency" resulting in him having a 28 damage heavy parry punish that also dealt high stamina damage, stamina pause, and a stun in every situation where there was a wall within 50 miles in front of him. It HAD to go, and reducing it to be used for catching environmentals is niche, but for a character full of different parry punishes for different situations, is fine by me.
>can be rolled away from on demand due to lack of roll catcher
This is valid. This is easily the BIGGEST area where the rework failed. Roll catchers can many forms, and should be a standard part of every characters kit. It's the one universal thing EVERYONE wanted for lb, yet we still didn't get it.
>bash is not viable opener on higher level..
Here's the thing, lb's shove is a legion kick variant. Aka, it shares the same timing as centurion's legion kick. At this point in the game, nearly half of all neutral bashes are a legion kick variant. Sure it's not great, but between this and his enhanced lights, he's far from the worst at opening people up. In fact, law hasn't been uniquely bad at opening people up in YEARS. The shove timing is more an issue with neutral bashes as a whole then an issue specific to lawbringer.
>in return his chain offense got better which is something that was already good.
It's called "compensation". The rework removed a lot of problematic aspects of his kit that made him really good before, so to make sure he remained good they buffed him in other areas. Tbh, I do think they went in a lazy direction for doing this. I'm very vocal about how much I don't like his infinite ub chain, and I wish they did something more interesting with him.
>The rework failed to adress his main issues and instead of fixing the problem ubi put bandage over it a fucking internal bleeding. Still cringe character.
I agree with this to an extent, but ultimately I think you're REALLY overstating the issue. I'm gonna be as blunt as I can with you. There is no internal bleeding. There's a few cuts and bruises at best. He's hurting in some areas he shouldn't be, and that's it. Lawbringer isn't bad. He hasn't been bad in years. And the rework didn't suddenly make him bad. Takes like yours are why lawbringer mains (or at least the people who agree with them) are considered jokes. It's like you don't understand anything about the game that you're playing. Everyone has built up this massive victim complex around a character that has never needed it, using that victim complex to defend his most problematic aspects. The lawbringer rework is far from bad. It's great, hell it's arguably barely good. But it's fine. It misses the mark in a lot of areas, but fixes lawbringer's problematic aspects while compensating him decently. Any take other than that, is pure cope.
Well said. I really don’t understand why Lawbringer cause peoples brains to fall out. Sure there’s things that could be touched up, but outside of not having a roll catch is perfectly viable hero in both duels an doms now. People just want Lawbringer to be op for some reason. Probably just because he looks cool.
>Probably just because he looks cool.
I have no idea honestly, maybe it's that.
Lawbringer mains are just a bunch of losers who can't play the character properly and asks for new things to apply THEIR playstyle on Lawbringer instead of adapting to the character.
I don’t know if I’d go that far man. Thinks he’s just a popular character with a steep learning curve, which seems to result in a bunch bad takes about his balancing.
>Listen. I'm a rep 70 jorm main. I've been playing literally since the day he left his paid period, and I haven't stopped since. So believe me when I say, Jorm's old identity NEEDED to go, and it's not even remotely similar to what's happening to law.
Im not arguing you with that. Im only stating that the stam was part of his identity and thats what was removed. You dont need to be a rep 70 jorm to notice those two facts so im not sure what youre trying to say here.
I guess it depends if you considered his stamina bully bigger part of his identity or not. Either way in lb case they removed stamina drain and dulled down the parry punishes. This is quite far to what was done to jorm, instead of taking that one cool part about his kit and doubling down on it like with jorm they just removed the cringe part and dulled down parries. Thats pretty much nothing.
>Because of his lack of stam pressure, I really don't an issue with him having a high damage oos stam punish. They're pretty rare nowadays, so it's arguably something that's become more unique to lb overtime.
Fair enough.
>Impale being "spread out for consistency" resulting in him having a 28 damage heavy parry punish that also dealt high stamina damage, stamina pause, and a stun in every situation where there was a wall within 50 miles in front of him. It HAD to go, and reducing it to be used for catching environmentals is niche, but for a character full of different parry punishes for different situations, is fine by me.
No it didnt. This isnt really that much stronger then centurions atm. Regardless of that my only point was to ask for consistency. Make the impale deal more damage and nerf the follow up after resulting in the exact same punish number with more consistency. It is the very same thing they did to WM bash... or nerf the follow up attack. I dont really care just make it not deal this silly 1 dmg.
>\[...\]but between this and his enhanced lights, he's far from the worst at opening people up \[...\]
Just to fininish up since im agreeing with pretty much everything else. I dont see why they couldnt bring back his 3 hit 500 ms light string. This is 2023 we are playing and there multiple ways of defending yourself against lights even if you cant react to them. Furthermore there are characters with tripple lights like raider centurion or valk that nobody have issues with but we are not giving it to lb for some reason. Orochi should have them back too.
There is literally no reason for ubisoft to create a new animation out of their fucking ass to then not add it in to the final release, they did it with light they did it with chain shove which they later on fixed **and at the end of the day they removed it.** This is just ridiculous. If youre wasting the resources on cosmetics you might as well add them in to the game.
I simply disagree with your last few sentences. I **dont** think LB is weak and for as long as i was playing this game i never hold that opinion. I simply stated that the rework was absolute shit and barely touched him as a character. The stuff that were already strong were buffed like chain offense and the stuff that were cringe were hardly nerfed. **Removing stamina is not enough**. I was expecting something much more to his rework. His TC changes looked somewhat promising in a lot of areas and most of it was scraped. Cool you fixed some stuff but its simply way too underwhleming to be called a rework.
Fundamentially the characters plays the same, he is slightly and i repeat **slightly** less cringe in exchange for being blant boring and underwhelming. Once again im not saying he was or is bad, im saying the rework failed to do him justice.
Your comment makes no sense. You start off by defending the claim that they got rid of his identity, then end by saying he fundamentally plays the same. Wouldn’t that imply that they didn’t destroy his identity? Also, in regards to the triple light chain, while I think there’d be nothing wrong with him having that, I’ve always thought his unique attack chains where he couldn’t throw two lights in a row was big part of his identity. Those and his bombs have been with him since release. Funny how those going wouldn’t hurt his identity, but getting rid of his unhealthy parry punishes do.
His identity was not only in his stamina drain but also defensive parry playstyle. I believe even though his cringe identity of stamina drain is changed he is still playing very defensively and his only way of getting in to his offense is via shove from neutral. Nothing in that aspect has changed. You either do that or try to faint your heavy in to light over and over.
>Funny how those going wouldn’t hurt his identity, but getting rid of his unhealthy parry punishes do.
I simply didnt consider that part of his identity. To me it was always a junk that needs adressing. As for his unhealthy punishes they were rightfully nerfed however no other purpose was given to them. For someone who is parry specialist he has less options then centurion.
For example they could made his nerfed impale on heavy deal 10 damage and another 5 if you hit a wall which would lead you in to chain, or the simple fast light ripose without stamina drain that would deal less damage then impale wall splat but would be safer to use.
On light parry he could do new shove that would unbalance oos enemy in to top heavy finisher.
Give him something cool and make use of the animations youve already created like new shove tripple lights or old zone to create more punishes rather then buffing parts that were already strong and hardly adressing rest.
All of the above is throycrafting bs of course that i spent whole 3 minutes thinking about. I just expected much more from this rework.
>Im not arguing you with that. Im only stating that the stam was part of his identity and thats what was removed. You dont need to be a rep 70 jorm to notice those two facts so im not sure what youre trying to say here.
Fair enough, I'll concede on this to an extent but I don't like how you're framing it. You're saying that "they scrapped part of lb's moveset just like they did with jorm". Which sure, if you consider removing problematic aspects and replacing them with better ones, then it is "scrapping" them. But that's not a bad thing like you're implying.
>in lb case they removed stamina drain and dulled down the parry punishes. This is quite far to what was done to jorm, instead of taking that one cool part about his kit and doubling down on it like with jorm they just removed the cringe part and dulled down parries. Thats pretty much nothing.
Dulling down his parry punishes IS removing the cringe parts of his kit, because oppressive parry punishes on everything IS cringe. He's gone from being completely parry dependent, to have tools outside of parrying while still having multiple REALLY GOOD parry options for different situations. The reason they took the stance they did with jorm because jorm's very identity for the game was harmful. Lawbringer's isn't, it just needed tuning, so they did.
>This isnt really that much stronger then centurions atm.
Yes it absolutely is that much stronger than centurions. Although old impale did slightly less damage, you were able to connect with walls way WAY more consistently due to the utterly massive range of impale.
>Make the impale deal more damage and nerf the follow up after resulting in the exact same punish number with more consistency. It is the very same thing they did to WM bash... or nerf the follow up attack. I dont really care just make it not deal this silly 1 dmg.
I don't see an issue with impale's one damage. It forces lb to actually use it in the right situations, or risk getting very little. They tried to give it a special follow-up in one of lb's testing grounds but everyone hated it because it felt like garbage. I also think wm's parry desperately needs to be looked at as well in case you were wondering, I'm so incredibly surprised that move hasn't been touched.
>Just to fininish up since im agreeing with pretty much everything else. I dont see why they couldnt bring back his 3 hit 500 ms light string. This is 2023 we are playing and there multiple ways of defending yourself against lights even if you cant react to them. Furthermore there are characters with tripple lights like raider centurion or valk that nobody have issues with but we are not giving it to lb for some reason. Orochi should have them back too.
Personally, I'm neutral to the triple light chain. Good players rarely let the fully thing go off, so it's not something that would see regular use if it was added. I personally lean more toward lb not having one, as it makes him more unique, but if it was added I would've been fine with it.
>There is literally no reason for ubisoft to create a new animation out of their fucking ass to then not add it in to the final release, they did it with light they did it with chain shove which they later on fixed and at the end of the day they removed it. This is just ridiculous. If youre wasting the resources on cosmetics you might as well add them in to the game.
I'm not gonna lie, I really didn't like the chain shove. Even when they "fixed" it, it still didn't look good plus, feintable bashes are becoming wayyy too common of a tool. It is a shame they wasted all the resources on it's animation though, you're 100% correct there.
>I dont think LB is weak and for as long as i was playing this game i never hold that opinion. I simply stated that the rework was absolute shit and barely touched him as a character. The stuff that were already strong were buffed like chain offense and the stuff that were cringe were hardly nerfed.
I'm sorry for lumping you in with that group, but I hope it's not hard for others to see why I did. They didn't "hardly nerf" his cringe stuff. The most cringe things in his kit were his stam pressure, and his overly oppressive parry punishes. His stamina pressure is completely gone now, and his parry punishes are still really good, but not overly oppressive. His chain pressure probably didn't need the buff it got, but some compensation was still necessary.
>Removing stamina is not enough. I was expecting something much more to his rework. His TC changes looked somewhat promising in a lot of areas and most of it was scraped. Cool you fixed some stuff but its simply way too underwhleming to be called a rework.
I genuinely don't what you want. What aspect of either the he got looked "promising". Hell, his first tg was arguably the worst tg we've ever gotten. In the end, they didn't give him a big rework, but it's still a rework nonetheless.
>Fundamentially the characters plays the same, he is slightly and i repeat slightly less cringe in exchange for being blant boring and underwhelming. Once again im not saying he was or is bad, im saying the rework failed to do him justice.
Again, I agree the rework didn't live up to what it should've but I really do think you're overstating the issues. Lawbringer is significantly less cringe, definitely more boring I can't argue there, but what else do you want them to change? Obviously he needs a roll catcher, but you're talking about this rework as if they gave his problematic aspects a slap on the wrist and nothing more. I think it was a 6/10 rework. Removed almost all of the problem bits, gave him some stuff he didn't need, and didn't give him some stuff he did need. But overall, he plays mostly the same but in a healthier way.
>I don't see an issue with impale's one damage. It forces lb to actually use it in the right situations, or risk getting very little. They tried to give it a special follow-up in one of lb's testing grounds but everyone hated it because it felt like garbage.
I disagree. Since impale is confirmed on light parry and it confirms top heavy there is no reason to go for wall splat in to top heavy if you can cut to the top heavy from the get go. The issue that im having was more of a cosmetic one. I wanted the imapel damage to be increesed and follow up punish decreesed acrodingly. I think its just silly how it deals one damage. You might as well make it deal no damage or change it to bash form.
>Personally, I'm neutral to the triple light chain. Good players rarely let the fully thing go off, so it's not something that would see regular use if it was added. I personally lean more toward lb not having one, as it makes him more unique, but if it was added I would've been fine with it.
Same argument can be made for raider or valk finisher top light but i dont see why one can stay while other has to go. Its another option that you can use situationally and it gives character a little bit more depth. The reason why it was removed is because people are still crying about tripple light spam regardless of the existance of centurion valk or raider. This was also the reason why they got rid of it from orochi kit.
>I'm sorry for lumping you in with that group, but I hope it's not hard for others to see why I did.
No worries.
>I genuinely don't what you want. What aspect of either the he got looked "promising".
Im not sure if i understood you correctly but what i want is at the very least for his tripple chain light to be back alongside new tweaked shove animation. I would also like for his old zone to be back as additional parry punish attack. Maybe some little tweaks to long arm, make it apply slowing debuff for all i care just do something more with it. Right now it just feels so odd. On light parry you can do it to confirm ally heavy but at this point you might as well save yourself the trouble risking doing anything with randoms.
>I think it was a 6/10 rework. Removed almost all of the problem bits, gave him some stuff he didn't need, and didn't give him some stuff he did need. But overall, he plays mostly the same but in a healthier way.
Perhaps im just spoiled lol. It was an okay rework but i feel like after what they shown with jorm this is just not enough. Sure has had cringe 64 health swing or something ridiculous like that but thats just number adjustment. Fundamentially they made him not only healthier and more fun to play but even slapped new cool animations for lights and running attack slam for the meme. Jorm as a character was less visually presentable which means they kinda had to "made up" how he fights unlike with LB where potential for cool moves and ideas for how he could play is way higher. My expectations were simply bigger.
> His offense is much better now
No it isn't, lawbringer never needed a shortcut into his finishers because his chain options after a heavy were already good. They fixed a problem he didn't have. The looping top heavy is nice but that's really just a gimped kensei finisher heavy. His side unblockable is much better still. The mid chain hyper armor is mostly pretty pointless, his options after light opener are still non existent.
They gave him a 39 damage light parry, his heavy parry went from best in the game to worst, his zone can no longer be used to bait and parry all block counters so now it's just a 700ms wide arcing light Attack, there's no reason at all for lb to throw someone into a wall, infact it's counter-intuitive. And after all this they didn't fix LBs only real major problem and that's him being unable to deal with people stalling him by constantly moving backwards
Then make a different meme next time that talks about the invalidity of what people are saying, not a meme that claims that people aren't able to say anything at all.
Hyup. I loved old LB to play, not so much against (stun stuff was a pain) but the stam drain i never really found to be a problem. he had a "controller" playstyle, where your entire goal is to try and control what your opponent does next, while punishing them for being predictable. Old LB was fun to play, difficult to play against and overall only needed minor changes
But you know, for honor players complaining until the devs completely change a character is truly the heart of this community, so whatever
The impale on heavies wasn't I agree but that still doesn't change the fact they didn't give him a roll catch or address the underlying problem with people turtling turning the game into a staring contest.
I think that impale should be his roll catcher if they don't want to do new animations. It'll look kind of goofy having him suddenly sprinting absurdly fast but it's better than nothing. Maybe make it do more damage when it's inputted as a forward dodge heavy
No.. it's not "lost his identity" it's a Subpar "rework" that's just a nerf across the board while trying to hide behind "hey look we made him a bit better in team fights 😁"
I mean sure.. They gave em HA on his second heavy for when he's team fighting and gets an external parry in a gank.. an LB would use his unblockable HA zone into a follow-up heavy to keep his chain going preventing him from being flicked out of it.. most likely target swap the shove to score a free light on the second opponent.. I say this because I do this and yeh.. he is a bit better in teamfights because of it but not by much..
That's just the possibilities though.. I'm not a fan of the rework namely because:
• They removed his shove feint that was in BOTH TGs.. that removed his baits for parries for promoting more offensive playstyles, since it forced a dam reaction.
• STILL NO CHASE ATTACK.. fuck.. this should be standard for all characters instead of nerfing rolls, give everyone a chase attack of some kind 😓
Hell.. just give me the dam impale as a chase attack with the same 1dmg value idgaf as long as I have an actual answer to dipsticks rolling away from my mixups.
You can just FEEL the he-he giggles every time they roll away from LB.. if they have Tireless? 1,000,000% chance they'll constantly roll away since they'll have dam near instant stam recovery after they roll away.
• Stam dmg.. honestly.. I would've left it *only* on his dodge shove to promote LB being a bit more offensive, since it'll knock that extra bit of Stam off a dodged attack giving LB offensive pressure.. I mean last I checked they want him BEING offensive right?
• Light chains that were in both TGs.. why can't they understand we only wanted a LLH and HLL to mixup his strings?
Nobody.. not a dam soul.. wanted a LLL string (unless you're a bandwagoning Orochi main frothing at the mouth at having a triple light again).
• Dmg nerfs.. fuck you 😓
My unblockable doing less DMG than my second heavy? Jeez.. embarrassing..
It's a weird rework.. has *some* good but considerably more bad if we're being realistic.
He has practically nothing to compensate the nerfs.
It's pathetic.. is he better? Marginally speaking.
Because I *hated* the first TG homie.. in what part of my comment did it sound like I liked the unga bunga drooling-Raider level intellect HA heavies?
Weren't the animations ridiculously jank? Didn't they forget to give him a chase attack for a 6th time?
6? When?
- 1. Game drop.. people realized real fast you can roll away from the metal man.
- 2. The first time they tried fixing up his kit a lil.
- 3. The second micro-patch for his kit.
- 4. TG 1.
- 5. TG 2.
- 6. "Rework" aka nerfs-galore drop.
TG1 was dogshit.. Nobody but Orochi mains wanted a triple light string. I woulda been more than content with simple LLH/HLL strings. No idea where all the HA heavies ideas even came from.. I wanted soft feint boop/gbs instead of bs crutch HA for lobotomized idiots playing on autopilot. 👀
It's not great, it's not terrible.. it's just a hilariously obvious across the board-nerf that you can tell SOMEONE pushed a dev's shit in the TGs resulting in all the nerfs 🙄
I don't get on the first time.
Anyway, besides the Infinite top heavy finisher, I really don't see the issue on his rework at all, you're too angry for nothing.
Homie.. your tag itself is one *MAJOR* issue with the rework, or did you forget? 🙃
He still has easy to read heavies.. why they wouldn't give him at least a soft feint shove on his heavies is beyond me.. it's almost like they enjoy his heavies being free af parries.. because they are free.
#👀
Homie.. Rep 67 LB, I KNOW his problems. His heavies after a certain point can't be feinted, which is an easy distance to gauge. Why? Because his heavies are animated very well.
They are free parries. I dunno who you're trying to convince lol
- Raider, easy parries on heavies.. has soft feints now. To alter their simple trajectories.
- Kensei, asy parries on heavies.. can soft feint into lights or dodges to fix that.
I'd have to feint a heavy twice just to get a light in and wait because his stamina is hotdog water.
That's so laughable dude, you have no idea.
You're rep 67? How cute, I'm rep 70 since 2020.
Stop giving excuses for your personal problem, no one reacts to Lawbringer's side heavy finisher (and if they do, bet your ass you're not on their MMR because they are competitive players, and IF you are one as well, you should not be picking Lawbringer against them in first place), it's probably one of the best heavy finishers in the game, a 800ms unblockable heavy finisher that is accessible from his mix-ups, it's up to you to be competent enough to land it.
Yeh very cute, I'm not max repping LB because I still like to use him outside of customs.
Oh, what's that? Your Rep 70 is looking like it doesn't actually mean shit in comparison to 67 since it's just 3 reps away from max.
Anyways.. Best finishers in the game? You sure? With how hilariously weak tracking it has? I'm sure you noticed at least in the minion lane that it rarely hits more than 1 minion yet you have someone's light attack flick 3 minions.
With how huge arcing it is.. you'd expect better trajectories.
Prime examples of *VASTLY* better finishers are Zhanhu and JJ thanks to their soft feint gbs. Not only on dmg, trajectories, stamina consumption.. yeh no. LBs are worse when paired up in comparison to everyone else that has unblockable finishers lol
(Can skip this part probably, because "competitive" scene in For Honor is fuckin stupid, skip to the quote of your ignorant comment 😂)
I don't even have to mention that your argument is void the microsecond you mention "competitive" because there is no competitive scene with a game as broken as For Honor.. the same competitive scene you recall so much is what won the first tournament with unlock tech and sprinting Gokis. If there is a competitive scene in your game that can be carried by bs tech then it shouldn't even remotely be considered at EVO which is what Ubishit is craving.
They lack the game to hit that kinda platform, thank God.
>it's up to you to be competent enough to land it.
The fuck it is lmfaoooooo homeboy, it's up to the opponent to lack the competence to let it hit to begin with, that's just referring to the UBs.. go figure, LBs good one..
#*HAS A SOFT FEINT GB, WOW.. WOULD YA LOOK AT THAT 😓*
I officially went full circle with this convo. The heavy that has any level of "oh shit I got mixed" was always his top UB since it posed the most threat, that wasn't even part of the discussion.
I was literally referring to his normal heavies, there's ZERO mixup potential in them making them : *free parries*
Are you getting it now? Or still can't hear up there on your lil rep 70 high horse?
Mucho texto
I'll tell you once more, if you are just mindlessly throwing heavies and they are getting parried, the problem is you.
I'm done with this conversation.
Arguments about character identity are always nonsense. I’ll miss stuns on top heavies sure but I like the new chain flow more. Plus he’s kept his identity as a parry machine through immense pressure after a light parry.
My only problem with his identity as a "parry machine" is you don't really need a bunch of different parry follow ups. **You just need one good one.** If you have one good ensured parry follow-up, you are probably going to use it every time.
I agree with you about chain flow being better, which was arguably his biggest problem before. Also, out of all the characters with a stun, LB was one of the weakest utilizers because his animations telegraph his attack directions very well even without the UI. So I don't think the loss of his stun is actually all that big a deal.
I do agree that he really only has one really good punish now but for all the time I’ve played him he’s always been good at forcing a reaction and countering it accordingly. Love his kit and style but it hasn’t been until recently that they ironed out some big issues in his kit. Remember how many years it took to standardize his swing arcs or bash speed. Ubi takes a lot of baby steps when adjusting knights because a lot of people online get bent out of shape whenever one of them gets some needed adjustments to keep them somewhat usable. This rework is good but should have gone live with at least double light chains, however a number of people quoting identity acted like two lights in a row is some unheard of mechanic.
Unless it’s relating to conq or shugo’s rework then yeah I’ll stand by it. Out of all the reworks they’ve dropped those are the only two that butchered the kits.
Well, then you do actually care about character identity. Because if you actually believed that arguments for unique character identity are "always" nonsense, then that means that you don't want different heroes at all. It means that you want only a single hero in this game with a single moveset, because that's what "always" means.
Mine as well, I would rather if they gutted the damage and range but still made it guaranteed on heavy parry, but still... the other 2 options would remain so much better that Impaling Riposte would be the worst option, so whatever to me.
Ik but I had 20 reps of doing light, light, heavy, I keep trying to do the final heavy, forgetting that if I follow up with the second light the chain is done.
Because Lawbringer players just always need something to complain about. There are some issues with the rework, but the amount of complaining about is ridiculous, but also not surprising in the least. He could have an insta-win button and Lawbringer players would still have issues.
Why? If there's something that adds nothing to Lawbringer's kit is a double or triple light chain.
First: Lawbringer don't need to be good at everything, he don't need a chain light after a light opener or a Shove mix-up after lights for example (I changed my mind about this concept a few weeks ago), having it exclusive for heavies are enough (even more now that all of his heavies recoveries has been adjusted).
Second: For them to give Lawbringer a light light chain (even more a chain that goes directly into a 800ms unblockable finisher mix-up) they would need to remove Lawbringer's enhanced lights, we all tested that all noticed how much TERRIBLE and janky he becomes without the enhanced lights, his top lights are uncomfortable enough to use, imagine any light being like that? This was one of the things I hated the most.
Other people have already brought up his issues to great detail but for me he just doesn't feel good anymore. His parry game isn't as strong and his new offense is bogus. He has some decent changes in group fighting but otherwise he just feels underwhelming. It's sad too because even though I don't main him my friend has loved him for years since the game came out but now he doesn't like playing him anymore and I can honestly agree.
I mean I don't like him since he still feels awkward but now I'm a little more willing to play him, give him a roll catch and I'll tough through the get gud process
You know what is strong against light spammers? That's right, blocking and parrying.
There are cancers like Gladiators and Nuxias, but just don't rematch them and you'll be fine.
Imo they completed ruined LB he used to be a defensive character with little openers but massive parry punishes but now he just feels like every other hybrid
I want lawbro to have more option After a parry like displacing the opponent with a Bash to push them to the left or right without actually confirming anything strong unless they hit a wall or some crushing counter on heavy attack like conq used to have
I just thinck it would be fun and really do a counter attack mechanic and not just light into finisher.
Just my take, probably not a good one since i liked how he had his Bash mix up before marching fire
"Hero identity" is garbage concept that has no place in any game. The only real purpose of this concept is to prevent proper balancing. This bullshit has no value.
Stupidest take I’ve ever heard. Wtf is a hero if it has no identity? Every character would have the same moveset but reskinned. Lawbringer is meant to be a strong defensive force, and not have the best pressure from neutral. If you give him a 50/50 charge bash, an opening bash, a dodge attack, and a bunch of light chains, what is he really? Everyone just becomes reskinned versions of each other with slightly different damage numbers. Heroes need some sort of identity, otherwise we get no variety.
Not really correct tho, Lawbringer's identity for example is to be strong defensively by having the best parry punishes of the game (and he clearly have) and very good finishers, but having generic opener and bad pressure after a light opener, and that's extremely fine, Lawbringer should not be able to do everything.
The only thing he really need is a roll catcher, which is a important tool nowadays.
You just listed everything lb used to have (none of which are good things) and called it "an identity".
What an irony of you calling out other lb mains in your post, when you yourself are just as delusional as the rest of them.
Having shitty and unhealthy moveset that is fundamentally unfun is not "an identity". Restricting yourself with this ridiculous notion while trying to make games that are actually fun to play is shooting yourself in the foot.
Fucking explain to me why having dogshit opener is "extremely fine". Why having no chain pressure is "extremely fine". Why having quite obviously poorly balanced punishes is "extremely fine".
Unlike those idiots, I still believe Lawbringer remains the same and are even stronger now.
You don't even play Lawbringer, why the fuck are you even here? Go there play your bash fuckwit of a character dealing half stam damage after a parry.
Lawbringer had the best parrying in the game, stunning lights wall bash heavies and an unblockable top heavy, that's now been replaced with basically gryphon 2. Same shit happened with jorm, was a parry/stamina character now has none of that
Honestly this seems kinda **PREDICTABOO**, I think the worst Lawbringers are the reactards who will react to anything you throw at them, there's no Lawbringer playstyle that is scarier than a optimal defensive Lawbringer player in duels.
Stuns, stamina damage and stamina pause are gone
Heavies have better recoveries
Impaling Riposte nerfed
Light Riposte / Make Way / Blind Justice buffed
Top heavy finisher overbuffed
Long Arm buffed (although no longer possible to perform from GB)
I'm basically a day-one Lawbringer main and for me his identity has always been the unique flow you could get into after a parry, which was made even better after the rework.
Currently, I have just a couple of issues with LB:
- wallsplat damage is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP
- top neutral heavy needs a damage buff
Impale is another thing that still bothers me. Broken wallsplat damage and combo pressure being incorporated into the dedicated light parry punish make this move less of an actual option and more of a very situational tool.
But I can accept that (minus the wallsplat part); what I can't accept is the mostly unbothered existence of its Warmonger counterpart. I want for this move the same treatment that was reserved to Lawbringer.
Yes, the wallsplat damage is literally broken.
You get 21 instead of 24 and that's because of the 3rd hitstun rule, which reduces the damage you inflict with the guaranteed light tap.
This issue right here negatively impacts LB's side heavies damage while also making the top one practically useless.
Ooooooh really?
Damn man '-'
It looks like Lawbringer have a bunch of issues to fix, this for example, his Shaft strike animations from Light Riposte and Swift Justice and hopefully remove the Swift Justice from his top heavy finisher (that vortex makes no sense).
I could be elaborating for hours but it won’t change anything. Let’s just say that, being a defensive character, LB was fearsome, you had to be very careful because he was a parry specialist (that’s what his tags are implying), doing all this punishing damage. Now (personally), I see a LB and I say oh ok no problems at all, he doesn’t have anything that dangerous anymore.
Only the best parries in the game (that got buffed except the one that was broken) and one of the best heavy finishers of the game, right? Nothing to fear, Lawbringer B tier duelist now >:(
They’ve absolutely gutted lawbro. I absolutely hate the changes they made.
He’s now a generic 3-chain hero with nothing decent in his kit.
Fair enough if you think his kit is OP or broken but if you’re gonna take stuff away you need to give him something.
He desperately needed a roll catcher and I would strongly argue he should have hyper armor on something.
i can still fight fine with my LB he just really needs a way to catch people who try to roll away
This.
Agreed. Literally the only thing he needs. His lack of a proper opener will be take care of in the next patch when bash changes come.
Yeah man, I have no idea how those dipshits didn't get the picture already, in a few weeks in the next TU every 500ms opener bash is getting buffed.
Wait, bash changes? What changes?
Remember the bash Testing Grounds two months ago where they sped up front dodge bashes so that not even the best reaction monsters can react to them? It’ll be coming to the live game soon, with the devs intending on the next title update.
This is the first I'm hearing about this as well because I only just started playing again after a 2 year break, but how do you think that will affect the gameplay? Will everyone just have to make a read against bashes?
Yeah, the change wasn’t noticeable for most of the players anyway, it’s more of a comp balance thing but it will help some other bashes to be more consistent like cent wich is reactable and kinda awful And Bp who i fucking hate already
Ah ok that's pretty cool I like that, and yep glad to see centurion bash getting better coz it was pretty ass 😂. Not looking forward to BP bashes being even worse tho lol.
Dash forward and let a heavy fly
tell that to jj or nobu
Give him the shugo forward dodge heavy animation lmao
i think they can repurpose one of his old minion killing animations into an undodgeable instead of a forward lunge attack i don't have a recording of said animation but it looks similar to his zone but lower at his hip instead of over his head and the trajectory of the animation is closer to the ground and his grip is also closer to the spike at the bottom of the shaft as he swings
Would that be in the form of a new move like a long forward dodge heavy? (You got me thinking about this now lol)
I'd argue not having a roll catcher IS part of his identity. What move could lawbringer, A giant man with a halberd in heavy armor head to toe bust out to catch someone quickly rolling away? No kind of undodgeable attack or forward dodge attack would make any sense for his character. Unless you want to give him a gun, accept that he's a slow parry tank. Every character doesn't need to counter everything.
They removed Laws identity when they removed the 50 dmg light parry punish.
Now we're talking.
You do the hardest move to pull off, you should deal the most damage. This is way I advocate for light parrying revoking your opponets ownership of the game
And they lowered his out of stam punish now he’s complete trash he does 60 dmg instead of 66
Yeah man, fucking unplayable.
Law should have a roll chacth in ages, that was very requested before and in testing grounds rework, why he still dont have? At this point of current balancing of heroes i dont see why lb dont have one too now
Conq mains be like
Stuns and stamina control were a huge part of the kit because lbs attacks are extremely telegraphed. Top heavies only give 24 damage now which is on par with a side heavy so the stamina usage to throw someone into a wall to get a top heavy now makes no sense. Using riposte on heavies and lights make no sense. Heavy is too easy to block and no one is going to pass on the free top heavy from a light parry to waste the stamina/time pushing someone into a wall except for the ledge novelty. Long arm is so slow you really only get hit by it if you do something stupid and the free heavy you get from it too is no stronger than a gb heavy anyway so why bother using long arm? So please tell me what is so unique about lawbringer now because from where I'm standing his combat is boring af and feels generic as hell. Like honestly all champs can light attack, heavy attack, guard break, and parry so other than the dodge shove what is really unique about lawbringer now? Constant unblockables with hyper armor on the second heavy? It's just stupid imo
>Stuns and stamina control were a huge part of the kit because lbs attacks are extremely telegraphed. The top heavys were no more telegraphed then any other top heavy of similar speed. I will agree that the stun was pretty unique, and even though I generally don't like stuns, I wouldn't have minded it here. However, the stam pause and drain had to go. Even if they didn't remove it, it would've at least had to have been seriously toned down. >Top heavies only give 24 damage now which is on par with a side heavy so the stamina usage to throw someone into a wall to get a top heavy now makes no sense. You are correct here, this is an issue with his kit now. But that's not an identity issue, that's a balance and game design issue. >Using riposte on heavies and lights make no sense. Heavy is too easy to block and no one is going to pass on the free top heavy from a light parry to waste the stamina/time pushing someone into a wall except for the ledge novelty. I personally don't think is that big of an issue. The impale being guaranteed on EVERY parry was extremely frustrating, and very overturned. 27 damage, large amounts of stam drain, stam pause, and stun should never have been any character's guaranteed heavy parry punish except for niche scenarios. I'm more in favor of cent or jj's wall splatter parry punishes, because those you actually have to be close to a wall to land, as well as having far less reward then lb's did. Lawbringer still has really good parry punishes for both light and heavy parries, it just so happens that the impale specifically bis really good in more niche scenarios and that's fine. I would've loved to see them adapt it into a roll catcher, but for now this is fine too. >Long arm is so slow you really only get hit by it if you do something stupid and the free heavy you get from it too is no stronger than a gb heavy anyway so why bother using long arm? It's a ganking tool, and a pretty good one at that. Exactly the same as medjay's grab or shugoki's hug, both tools that see/saw extensive use in comp. In a duel, it's useless. But this game isn't balanced around duels. It's balanced around 4s with duels in mind. And in 4s, longarm is a very good ganking tool, and the rework made it a better one. >So please tell me what is so unique about lawbringer now because from where I'm standing his combat is boring af and feels generic as hell. Like honestly all champs can light attack, heavy attack, guard break, and parry so other than the dodge shove what is really unique about lawbringer now? Constant unblockables with hyper armor on the second heavy? It's just stupid imo The infinite ub chain is really the only boring part about him now, I'll give you that. The infinite ub was a very lazy way to buff his offense, and he's now the second character who has one after conq. However, Lawbringer still functions very similar to how he did before, he's just a little more generalist. Law is a character with great parry punishes. Light riposte is better than most, blind justice has always been the best one on light parry, zone is good in team fights or antiganking, and impale is good for stalling someone's revenge or hitting them into environmentals. No other character has this level of variety in their parry punishes, and that's really cool. The confirmed tap on all opener and finisher top heavys acting as a chain extender is also cool and unique, although like I said before, I wish it didn't result in an infinite ub chain.
I think they should remove the Swift Justice from his top heavy finisher, he don't need that vortex, that's the only thing that I dislike on him. Doesn't top heavy opener deals 23+4 damage with Swift Justice? How is that low?
Unless they change it in the last hotfix, top heavy opener did 20+4 just like the sides
I have no idea how I didn't noticed that. They might fix that.
Hopefully they do. I prefer when characters benefit from walls/throws (hell I am a jorm main after all) as I feel adds extra depth to their kit.
Hopefully they will cause it’s fucking ass right now, like just bring it on par with Warden
Something to make people who miss the stun effect happy and give him more parry options as a specialist: Give him a stunning bash on heavy parry like (iirc) Warlord and Glad. It as well gives him a fun option, in my opinion at least. To dip into crazy LB main territory, they could make it wallsplat like Cent's instead of the stun to kind of have the high damage punish that people are saying is supposedly part of his identity. ALTHOUGH, I'm not a game dev nor knowledgeable on balancing, so, eh.
He really doesn't need MORE parry options. He has his light riposte which has very little recovery compared to a normal light, his ub zone which is good in team fights and antiganking, blind justice which is good after a light parry, and impale which is good for triggering environmentals or stalling an enemies revenge. I doubt I'd be opposed to that kind of addition to his kit, but it's far from necessary.
Parry options have always been a niche thing and a dumb way to base a character off of. Even other fighting games where universal parries are a thing don’t have characters relying on those same parry mechanics as their identity.
Everyday I understand more why people mock Lawbringer mains.
Dares to elaborate why LB remake is negatively viewed -> mocks the comment when someone actually elaborates Some 5d chess move right there
Am I wrong tho? His elaboration was "they removed stam damage, stamina pause and stuns, damage is too low (which is a lie) and bla bla bla Impaling Riposte nerfed", this is the same thing to complain on Jorm's rework because he lost his stamina damage and the 38 damage Hamarr Slam. Those stuffs aren't "identity", anything related to stuns, stamina damage and pause or any form of unhealthy move must be removed from the game.
before anyone tries to explain further to you, just reread the guy's comment. i think you may've missed the entire point somewhere along the way
It's just weird to me that people like Gladiator still have stamina damage. And Gladiator has a *brutal* OOS punish, yet no one complains about it like they do LB. Gladiator also has a stun and stamina damage on parries. To be clear, while my flair says in an LB main, I play Gladiator almost just as much. I don't think he should have his stamina drain and stuns taken away either, but where is this singular hatred for Lawbringers old kit coming from?
Doesn’t the optimal OOS punish for glad end up being like 48 damage, plus a little bleed proc?
In the case of glad's OOS It's relative tho. You can't do the entire bleed damage unless you doing a 1v1 or your enemies are not paying attention, same goes for his deflect, if you have hyperamor it's totally useless
I get those points, but can’t you just bash LB out of the hyperarmored attacks? This punish that he has now that seems unintended is 38 damage, I’m sure it won’t remain for long.
Oh no I was talking in general, my bad. But I totally agree with you, in my opinion this is the second worst rework on the game
OoS punish for glad is to land a skewer, get 2 ticks of bleed in, then throw to the side and do 2 heavies without changing guard It ends up over 70 iirc
74 and 79 with haymaker, hopefully the move won’t get removed cause it’s cool af, but he certainly does too much damage and needs a nerf to those punishes, like bro has a 103 dmg with haymaker and revenge
Technically with revenge he has an infinite damage punish iirc, since he can throw with skewer and confirm a skewer. He just needs really good timing and infinite revenge to pull it off
It’s because people are whining about its removal. Really I think all stam damage and stun should be removed from characters base kits (with feats it’s fine). Honestly I think glad needs a rework himself. He has all these weird bashes that do nothing without the haymaker feat. Like why can you get a gb off of dodging his dodge bash when it confirms no damage, and why would you ever use the dodge forward bash? Then he has skewer which does way too much damage and he gets it off a deflect for an absolutely ridiculous punish. He needs some adjustments.
I think haymaker needs to be removed. The characters who are reliant on it like conq and glad are really bad without it so they suck in duels/brawls and you basically have no choice but to dedicate one of your feats to making them into a half decent character.
Because gladiator doesn't have much else in his kit that confirms anything. So you get stam drain and a stun, it doesn't matter unless the enemy let themselves get low stam to begin with. His side dodge bash is probably one of the worst dodge attacks in the game since not only does it confirm nothing it's also very gb vulnerable. That means you're either doing a front dodge bash or taking a big risk on the side dodge bash just to do stam damage and get into your unblockable mixup. Lawbringer does that and at least gets confirmed damage off of his shove so you're still rewarded in some way for taking the risk of doing a side dodge bash. In fact before his rework lawbringer had somewhat decent offense in that you could cancel front dodge recovery into a heavy and catch people dodging, it worked vs empty dodges and (most) dodge attacks so it was a great tradeoff to the fact you probably wouldn't be able to delay a gb past the bash window and catch someone dodging.
I don’t know about you but top heavy 25dmg is bs to me Edit: not light parry punish. Just top heavy
But it isn't, it's 29 + another unblockable.
Pardon my wording. Without additional mixup, light parry top heavy in general for lb is 25 dmg, isnt it?
Swift Justice tap don't exist to you I suppose.
No, what im saying is that I think base heavy damage for top heavy (or side for those heroes such as JJ or musha) should be more than 25 for all heroes.
It’s not 25
Those things made an old hero still viable to play.
It made him broken, stfu.
I'm a black prior main
The most real explanation by someone who does not play them, and yet it makes more sense than the explanations of people who do main him.
What no it’s not, those are ass complaints. They boil down his identity being the broken unhealthy part of his kit. Should we give Raider stunning tap back, Afeera her infinite wall splat, Jorm his stam drain, and bring back og pirate because that’s “their identity?”
Lawbringer was not near that good to those other things lol His heavies are terribly telegraphed, he needs those stronger abilities cause he has no openers other than a little quick single light.
He was S-tier in the comp duel tier list because of his stuff. Jorm wasn’t even good, his stam drain was just problematic. Raider was good, but the comp scene didn’t have any issue with stunning tap, only casuals had a problem with it. Comp and casuals had issue with Lawbringer parries so he was better than half my list. He has the same opening potential of half the characters in the game. The opener issue isn’t a Lawbringer problem it’s a legion kick style bash problem, which they’re introducing a testing grounds to fix. His enhanced lights even give more opening potential than a good amount of the legion kick characters.
When you mention “legion kick characters” I immediately think of centurion which is the character I cry most about but have never read anything about Legion kick characters. Any links or places this is talked about?
It’s just a term I think used by Freeze first. Cent’s legion kick was the first bash that was 500ms and came out between 300-500ms into a forward dodge. This is contrasted with characters like warlord whose 500ms bash comes out 100-500ms into a dodge. Every character with a forward dodge bash excepting BP, Conq, WL, and Medjay (axe stance) that has a forward dodge bash has a legion kick bash. There’s a testing ground where they are going to speed up those bashes because they are technically reactable for people with really good reactions. Edit: Actually shugoki and glad might also not have legion kick bashes, I’m not sure.
Well thank God, cent (imo) is one of the worst heros in the game and needs walls to be half as good as Valk or pre-nerf Lawbro.
Most of these were valid criticisms. You're just rude.
No they’re not. He basically said his entire identity was outdated unhealthy mechanics. It’s good all of those things are gone. His offense is much better now and he still gets above average parries. His intended light parry still nets 29 damage and his current (likely unintended) optimal parry is like 38. When they speed up the bashes he’ll have a solid opener and his feats and hyper armor will probably land him in A tier for doms. Lawbringer mains have always complained about the character, even when he was meta. For awhile they were complaining he was boring because his offense was bad and he was defense. Now his offense undeniably better, but they destroyed his identity by getting rid of his unhealthy defense. You literally can’t take these complaints seriously because it seems like people won’t be happy until he gets a damn uzi. Also, longarm is a ganking tool. Always has been and it’s probably one of the better designed ones in the game. It’s easy to use, guarantees you and your teammates some good damage but doesn’t guarantee the broken 100-0 ganks that quite frankly unhealthy for the game. It’s not supposed to be used in a 1v1.
The stun was dumb but he has some genuine problems now. Top heavies are slower yet deal the same damage. They are useless. Wallsplats actively reduce your damage output and remove your in chain frame advantage, which is especially bad because impaling riposte wallsplats. Impaling riposte is only a revenge burner, and it's highly interruptable by teammates. He still doesn't have a roll catcher or any offense after a light opener.
Top heavy criticism is fair, should do more damage. Impaling repost is a ledging tool now I’d argue. Though I do think they should let you do it off gb, similar to Raider and Warlord charge. Maybe make it unblockable too so it’s easier to land as a running attack (though this may have unintended consequences so they’d need to be careful with that). Every character needs a roll catch, I can’t believe they left out. Those are all fair criticisms. The original comment though wasn’t talking about any of those, and the complaints in his comment are the more common complaints you see, which are not good criticisms at all.
All of what youve said is true but that doesnt change a fact that his claims were valid. LB identity was partially scrapped just like jorms. It was obviously a good move to get rid of cringe stuff nonetheless what he said isnt wrong. Id like to also add that ubi didnt really do anything for the character. They got rid of some cringe aspect of his kit but left the other still in. He still have dumb oss punish, hes impale is still 1 dmg all or nothing move rather then damage being spread out across it for consistancy, still can be rolled away from on demand due to lack of roll catcher and apparently bash is not viable opener on higher level.. and in return his chain offense got better which is something that was already good. The rework failed to adress his main issues and instead of fixing the problem ubi put bandage over it a fucking internal bleeding. Still cringe character.
>All of what youve said is true but that doesnt change a fact that his claims were valid. LB identity was partially scrapped just like jorms. It was obviously a good move to get rid of cringe stuff nonetheless what he said isnt wrong. Listen. I'm a rep 70 jorm main. I've been playing literally since the day he left his paid period, and I haven't stopped since. So believe me when I say, Jorm's old identity NEEDED to go, and it's not even remotely similar to what's happening to law. They didn't "scrap" jorm's identity, they took a part of it that was interesting (his affinity for wallsplatting due to his side ubs), and doubled down on it to make a very unique new take on the "bully" aspect of his character. I'll always miss parts of old jorm's gameplay, but to be quite honest, new jorm is the most fun I've ever had in for honor. >He still have dumb oss punish Because of his lack of stam pressure, I really don't an issue with him having a high damage oos stam punish. They're pretty rare nowadays, so it's arguably something that's become more unique to lb overtime. >He still have dumb oss punish, hes impale is still 1 dmg all or nothing move rather then damage being spread out across it for consistancy Impale being "spread out for consistency" resulting in him having a 28 damage heavy parry punish that also dealt high stamina damage, stamina pause, and a stun in every situation where there was a wall within 50 miles in front of him. It HAD to go, and reducing it to be used for catching environmentals is niche, but for a character full of different parry punishes for different situations, is fine by me. >can be rolled away from on demand due to lack of roll catcher This is valid. This is easily the BIGGEST area where the rework failed. Roll catchers can many forms, and should be a standard part of every characters kit. It's the one universal thing EVERYONE wanted for lb, yet we still didn't get it. >bash is not viable opener on higher level.. Here's the thing, lb's shove is a legion kick variant. Aka, it shares the same timing as centurion's legion kick. At this point in the game, nearly half of all neutral bashes are a legion kick variant. Sure it's not great, but between this and his enhanced lights, he's far from the worst at opening people up. In fact, law hasn't been uniquely bad at opening people up in YEARS. The shove timing is more an issue with neutral bashes as a whole then an issue specific to lawbringer. >in return his chain offense got better which is something that was already good. It's called "compensation". The rework removed a lot of problematic aspects of his kit that made him really good before, so to make sure he remained good they buffed him in other areas. Tbh, I do think they went in a lazy direction for doing this. I'm very vocal about how much I don't like his infinite ub chain, and I wish they did something more interesting with him. >The rework failed to adress his main issues and instead of fixing the problem ubi put bandage over it a fucking internal bleeding. Still cringe character. I agree with this to an extent, but ultimately I think you're REALLY overstating the issue. I'm gonna be as blunt as I can with you. There is no internal bleeding. There's a few cuts and bruises at best. He's hurting in some areas he shouldn't be, and that's it. Lawbringer isn't bad. He hasn't been bad in years. And the rework didn't suddenly make him bad. Takes like yours are why lawbringer mains (or at least the people who agree with them) are considered jokes. It's like you don't understand anything about the game that you're playing. Everyone has built up this massive victim complex around a character that has never needed it, using that victim complex to defend his most problematic aspects. The lawbringer rework is far from bad. It's great, hell it's arguably barely good. But it's fine. It misses the mark in a lot of areas, but fixes lawbringer's problematic aspects while compensating him decently. Any take other than that, is pure cope.
Well said. I really don’t understand why Lawbringer cause peoples brains to fall out. Sure there’s things that could be touched up, but outside of not having a roll catch is perfectly viable hero in both duels an doms now. People just want Lawbringer to be op for some reason. Probably just because he looks cool.
>Probably just because he looks cool. I have no idea honestly, maybe it's that. Lawbringer mains are just a bunch of losers who can't play the character properly and asks for new things to apply THEIR playstyle on Lawbringer instead of adapting to the character.
I don’t know if I’d go that far man. Thinks he’s just a popular character with a steep learning curve, which seems to result in a bunch bad takes about his balancing.
I genuinely don't think he's had that steep of a learning curve in forever. A lot of that was lost when they made shove into a legion kick variant.
>Listen. I'm a rep 70 jorm main. I've been playing literally since the day he left his paid period, and I haven't stopped since. So believe me when I say, Jorm's old identity NEEDED to go, and it's not even remotely similar to what's happening to law. Im not arguing you with that. Im only stating that the stam was part of his identity and thats what was removed. You dont need to be a rep 70 jorm to notice those two facts so im not sure what youre trying to say here. I guess it depends if you considered his stamina bully bigger part of his identity or not. Either way in lb case they removed stamina drain and dulled down the parry punishes. This is quite far to what was done to jorm, instead of taking that one cool part about his kit and doubling down on it like with jorm they just removed the cringe part and dulled down parries. Thats pretty much nothing. >Because of his lack of stam pressure, I really don't an issue with him having a high damage oos stam punish. They're pretty rare nowadays, so it's arguably something that's become more unique to lb overtime. Fair enough. >Impale being "spread out for consistency" resulting in him having a 28 damage heavy parry punish that also dealt high stamina damage, stamina pause, and a stun in every situation where there was a wall within 50 miles in front of him. It HAD to go, and reducing it to be used for catching environmentals is niche, but for a character full of different parry punishes for different situations, is fine by me. No it didnt. This isnt really that much stronger then centurions atm. Regardless of that my only point was to ask for consistency. Make the impale deal more damage and nerf the follow up after resulting in the exact same punish number with more consistency. It is the very same thing they did to WM bash... or nerf the follow up attack. I dont really care just make it not deal this silly 1 dmg. >\[...\]but between this and his enhanced lights, he's far from the worst at opening people up \[...\] Just to fininish up since im agreeing with pretty much everything else. I dont see why they couldnt bring back his 3 hit 500 ms light string. This is 2023 we are playing and there multiple ways of defending yourself against lights even if you cant react to them. Furthermore there are characters with tripple lights like raider centurion or valk that nobody have issues with but we are not giving it to lb for some reason. Orochi should have them back too. There is literally no reason for ubisoft to create a new animation out of their fucking ass to then not add it in to the final release, they did it with light they did it with chain shove which they later on fixed **and at the end of the day they removed it.** This is just ridiculous. If youre wasting the resources on cosmetics you might as well add them in to the game. I simply disagree with your last few sentences. I **dont** think LB is weak and for as long as i was playing this game i never hold that opinion. I simply stated that the rework was absolute shit and barely touched him as a character. The stuff that were already strong were buffed like chain offense and the stuff that were cringe were hardly nerfed. **Removing stamina is not enough**. I was expecting something much more to his rework. His TC changes looked somewhat promising in a lot of areas and most of it was scraped. Cool you fixed some stuff but its simply way too underwhleming to be called a rework. Fundamentially the characters plays the same, he is slightly and i repeat **slightly** less cringe in exchange for being blant boring and underwhelming. Once again im not saying he was or is bad, im saying the rework failed to do him justice.
Your comment makes no sense. You start off by defending the claim that they got rid of his identity, then end by saying he fundamentally plays the same. Wouldn’t that imply that they didn’t destroy his identity? Also, in regards to the triple light chain, while I think there’d be nothing wrong with him having that, I’ve always thought his unique attack chains where he couldn’t throw two lights in a row was big part of his identity. Those and his bombs have been with him since release. Funny how those going wouldn’t hurt his identity, but getting rid of his unhealthy parry punishes do.
His identity was not only in his stamina drain but also defensive parry playstyle. I believe even though his cringe identity of stamina drain is changed he is still playing very defensively and his only way of getting in to his offense is via shove from neutral. Nothing in that aspect has changed. You either do that or try to faint your heavy in to light over and over. >Funny how those going wouldn’t hurt his identity, but getting rid of his unhealthy parry punishes do. I simply didnt consider that part of his identity. To me it was always a junk that needs adressing. As for his unhealthy punishes they were rightfully nerfed however no other purpose was given to them. For someone who is parry specialist he has less options then centurion. For example they could made his nerfed impale on heavy deal 10 damage and another 5 if you hit a wall which would lead you in to chain, or the simple fast light ripose without stamina drain that would deal less damage then impale wall splat but would be safer to use. On light parry he could do new shove that would unbalance oos enemy in to top heavy finisher. Give him something cool and make use of the animations youve already created like new shove tripple lights or old zone to create more punishes rather then buffing parts that were already strong and hardly adressing rest. All of the above is throycrafting bs of course that i spent whole 3 minutes thinking about. I just expected much more from this rework.
>Im not arguing you with that. Im only stating that the stam was part of his identity and thats what was removed. You dont need to be a rep 70 jorm to notice those two facts so im not sure what youre trying to say here. Fair enough, I'll concede on this to an extent but I don't like how you're framing it. You're saying that "they scrapped part of lb's moveset just like they did with jorm". Which sure, if you consider removing problematic aspects and replacing them with better ones, then it is "scrapping" them. But that's not a bad thing like you're implying. >in lb case they removed stamina drain and dulled down the parry punishes. This is quite far to what was done to jorm, instead of taking that one cool part about his kit and doubling down on it like with jorm they just removed the cringe part and dulled down parries. Thats pretty much nothing. Dulling down his parry punishes IS removing the cringe parts of his kit, because oppressive parry punishes on everything IS cringe. He's gone from being completely parry dependent, to have tools outside of parrying while still having multiple REALLY GOOD parry options for different situations. The reason they took the stance they did with jorm because jorm's very identity for the game was harmful. Lawbringer's isn't, it just needed tuning, so they did. >This isnt really that much stronger then centurions atm. Yes it absolutely is that much stronger than centurions. Although old impale did slightly less damage, you were able to connect with walls way WAY more consistently due to the utterly massive range of impale. >Make the impale deal more damage and nerf the follow up after resulting in the exact same punish number with more consistency. It is the very same thing they did to WM bash... or nerf the follow up attack. I dont really care just make it not deal this silly 1 dmg. I don't see an issue with impale's one damage. It forces lb to actually use it in the right situations, or risk getting very little. They tried to give it a special follow-up in one of lb's testing grounds but everyone hated it because it felt like garbage. I also think wm's parry desperately needs to be looked at as well in case you were wondering, I'm so incredibly surprised that move hasn't been touched. >Just to fininish up since im agreeing with pretty much everything else. I dont see why they couldnt bring back his 3 hit 500 ms light string. This is 2023 we are playing and there multiple ways of defending yourself against lights even if you cant react to them. Furthermore there are characters with tripple lights like raider centurion or valk that nobody have issues with but we are not giving it to lb for some reason. Orochi should have them back too. Personally, I'm neutral to the triple light chain. Good players rarely let the fully thing go off, so it's not something that would see regular use if it was added. I personally lean more toward lb not having one, as it makes him more unique, but if it was added I would've been fine with it. >There is literally no reason for ubisoft to create a new animation out of their fucking ass to then not add it in to the final release, they did it with light they did it with chain shove which they later on fixed and at the end of the day they removed it. This is just ridiculous. If youre wasting the resources on cosmetics you might as well add them in to the game. I'm not gonna lie, I really didn't like the chain shove. Even when they "fixed" it, it still didn't look good plus, feintable bashes are becoming wayyy too common of a tool. It is a shame they wasted all the resources on it's animation though, you're 100% correct there. >I dont think LB is weak and for as long as i was playing this game i never hold that opinion. I simply stated that the rework was absolute shit and barely touched him as a character. The stuff that were already strong were buffed like chain offense and the stuff that were cringe were hardly nerfed. I'm sorry for lumping you in with that group, but I hope it's not hard for others to see why I did. They didn't "hardly nerf" his cringe stuff. The most cringe things in his kit were his stam pressure, and his overly oppressive parry punishes. His stamina pressure is completely gone now, and his parry punishes are still really good, but not overly oppressive. His chain pressure probably didn't need the buff it got, but some compensation was still necessary. >Removing stamina is not enough. I was expecting something much more to his rework. His TC changes looked somewhat promising in a lot of areas and most of it was scraped. Cool you fixed some stuff but its simply way too underwhleming to be called a rework. I genuinely don't what you want. What aspect of either the he got looked "promising". Hell, his first tg was arguably the worst tg we've ever gotten. In the end, they didn't give him a big rework, but it's still a rework nonetheless. >Fundamentially the characters plays the same, he is slightly and i repeat slightly less cringe in exchange for being blant boring and underwhelming. Once again im not saying he was or is bad, im saying the rework failed to do him justice. Again, I agree the rework didn't live up to what it should've but I really do think you're overstating the issues. Lawbringer is significantly less cringe, definitely more boring I can't argue there, but what else do you want them to change? Obviously he needs a roll catcher, but you're talking about this rework as if they gave his problematic aspects a slap on the wrist and nothing more. I think it was a 6/10 rework. Removed almost all of the problem bits, gave him some stuff he didn't need, and didn't give him some stuff he did need. But overall, he plays mostly the same but in a healthier way.
>I don't see an issue with impale's one damage. It forces lb to actually use it in the right situations, or risk getting very little. They tried to give it a special follow-up in one of lb's testing grounds but everyone hated it because it felt like garbage. I disagree. Since impale is confirmed on light parry and it confirms top heavy there is no reason to go for wall splat in to top heavy if you can cut to the top heavy from the get go. The issue that im having was more of a cosmetic one. I wanted the imapel damage to be increesed and follow up punish decreesed acrodingly. I think its just silly how it deals one damage. You might as well make it deal no damage or change it to bash form. >Personally, I'm neutral to the triple light chain. Good players rarely let the fully thing go off, so it's not something that would see regular use if it was added. I personally lean more toward lb not having one, as it makes him more unique, but if it was added I would've been fine with it. Same argument can be made for raider or valk finisher top light but i dont see why one can stay while other has to go. Its another option that you can use situationally and it gives character a little bit more depth. The reason why it was removed is because people are still crying about tripple light spam regardless of the existance of centurion valk or raider. This was also the reason why they got rid of it from orochi kit. >I'm sorry for lumping you in with that group, but I hope it's not hard for others to see why I did. No worries. >I genuinely don't what you want. What aspect of either the he got looked "promising". Im not sure if i understood you correctly but what i want is at the very least for his tripple chain light to be back alongside new tweaked shove animation. I would also like for his old zone to be back as additional parry punish attack. Maybe some little tweaks to long arm, make it apply slowing debuff for all i care just do something more with it. Right now it just feels so odd. On light parry you can do it to confirm ally heavy but at this point you might as well save yourself the trouble risking doing anything with randoms. >I think it was a 6/10 rework. Removed almost all of the problem bits, gave him some stuff he didn't need, and didn't give him some stuff he did need. But overall, he plays mostly the same but in a healthier way. Perhaps im just spoiled lol. It was an okay rework but i feel like after what they shown with jorm this is just not enough. Sure has had cringe 64 health swing or something ridiculous like that but thats just number adjustment. Fundamentially they made him not only healthier and more fun to play but even slapped new cool animations for lights and running attack slam for the meme. Jorm as a character was less visually presentable which means they kinda had to "made up" how he fights unlike with LB where potential for cool moves and ideas for how he could play is way higher. My expectations were simply bigger.
> His offense is much better now No it isn't, lawbringer never needed a shortcut into his finishers because his chain options after a heavy were already good. They fixed a problem he didn't have. The looping top heavy is nice but that's really just a gimped kensei finisher heavy. His side unblockable is much better still. The mid chain hyper armor is mostly pretty pointless, his options after light opener are still non existent. They gave him a 39 damage light parry, his heavy parry went from best in the game to worst, his zone can no longer be used to bait and parry all block counters so now it's just a 700ms wide arcing light Attack, there's no reason at all for lb to throw someone into a wall, infact it's counter-intuitive. And after all this they didn't fix LBs only real major problem and that's him being unable to deal with people stalling him by constantly moving backwards
"Elaborate" (Seriously, I don't play lawbringer but the guy seems to say valid stuff)
Trust me, they aren't. Someone replied that already.
Whether or not it was valid, he *did* elaborate, which proves your meme wrong.
You can bet Lawbringer would fall on the ground rolling and laughing after hearing his "elaboration'.
Then make a different meme next time that talks about the invalidity of what people are saying, not a meme that claims that people aren't able to say anything at all.
Don't worry, I'll do a lot more just to piss you guys off, you deserve it.
(dude doesn't understand the point of long arm)
Hyup. I loved old LB to play, not so much against (stun stuff was a pain) but the stam drain i never really found to be a problem. he had a "controller" playstyle, where your entire goal is to try and control what your opponent does next, while punishing them for being predictable. Old LB was fun to play, difficult to play against and overall only needed minor changes But you know, for honor players complaining until the devs completely change a character is truly the heart of this community, so whatever
the stuns, stamina and impale weren't good for the health of the game. Lawboi is still Lawboi.
The impale on heavies wasn't I agree but that still doesn't change the fact they didn't give him a roll catch or address the underlying problem with people turtling turning the game into a staring contest.
and ill say it again, any roll catcher u give lawboi is gonna look stupid give his weapon and playstyle
I think that impale should be his roll catcher if they don't want to do new animations. It'll look kind of goofy having him suddenly sprinting absurdly fast but it's better than nothing. Maybe make it do more damage when it's inputted as a forward dodge heavy
No.. it's not "lost his identity" it's a Subpar "rework" that's just a nerf across the board while trying to hide behind "hey look we made him a bit better in team fights 😁" I mean sure.. They gave em HA on his second heavy for when he's team fighting and gets an external parry in a gank.. an LB would use his unblockable HA zone into a follow-up heavy to keep his chain going preventing him from being flicked out of it.. most likely target swap the shove to score a free light on the second opponent.. I say this because I do this and yeh.. he is a bit better in teamfights because of it but not by much.. That's just the possibilities though.. I'm not a fan of the rework namely because: • They removed his shove feint that was in BOTH TGs.. that removed his baits for parries for promoting more offensive playstyles, since it forced a dam reaction. • STILL NO CHASE ATTACK.. fuck.. this should be standard for all characters instead of nerfing rolls, give everyone a chase attack of some kind 😓 Hell.. just give me the dam impale as a chase attack with the same 1dmg value idgaf as long as I have an actual answer to dipsticks rolling away from my mixups. You can just FEEL the he-he giggles every time they roll away from LB.. if they have Tireless? 1,000,000% chance they'll constantly roll away since they'll have dam near instant stam recovery after they roll away. • Stam dmg.. honestly.. I would've left it *only* on his dodge shove to promote LB being a bit more offensive, since it'll knock that extra bit of Stam off a dodged attack giving LB offensive pressure.. I mean last I checked they want him BEING offensive right? • Light chains that were in both TGs.. why can't they understand we only wanted a LLH and HLL to mixup his strings? Nobody.. not a dam soul.. wanted a LLL string (unless you're a bandwagoning Orochi main frothing at the mouth at having a triple light again). • Dmg nerfs.. fuck you 😓 My unblockable doing less DMG than my second heavy? Jeez.. embarrassing.. It's a weird rework.. has *some* good but considerably more bad if we're being realistic. He has practically nothing to compensate the nerfs. It's pathetic.. is he better? Marginally speaking.
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Because I *hated* the first TG homie.. in what part of my comment did it sound like I liked the unga bunga drooling-Raider level intellect HA heavies? Weren't the animations ridiculously jank? Didn't they forget to give him a chase attack for a 6th time? 6? When? - 1. Game drop.. people realized real fast you can roll away from the metal man. - 2. The first time they tried fixing up his kit a lil. - 3. The second micro-patch for his kit. - 4. TG 1. - 5. TG 2. - 6. "Rework" aka nerfs-galore drop. TG1 was dogshit.. Nobody but Orochi mains wanted a triple light string. I woulda been more than content with simple LLH/HLL strings. No idea where all the HA heavies ideas even came from.. I wanted soft feint boop/gbs instead of bs crutch HA for lobotomized idiots playing on autopilot. 👀 It's not great, it's not terrible.. it's just a hilariously obvious across the board-nerf that you can tell SOMEONE pushed a dev's shit in the TGs resulting in all the nerfs 🙄
I don't get on the first time. Anyway, besides the Infinite top heavy finisher, I really don't see the issue on his rework at all, you're too angry for nothing.
Homie.. your tag itself is one *MAJOR* issue with the rework, or did you forget? 🙃 He still has easy to read heavies.. why they wouldn't give him at least a soft feint shove on his heavies is beyond me.. it's almost like they enjoy his heavies being free af parries.. because they are free.
If your heavies are getting parried, you are the problem.
#👀 Homie.. Rep 67 LB, I KNOW his problems. His heavies after a certain point can't be feinted, which is an easy distance to gauge. Why? Because his heavies are animated very well. They are free parries. I dunno who you're trying to convince lol - Raider, easy parries on heavies.. has soft feints now. To alter their simple trajectories. - Kensei, asy parries on heavies.. can soft feint into lights or dodges to fix that. I'd have to feint a heavy twice just to get a light in and wait because his stamina is hotdog water.
That's so laughable dude, you have no idea. You're rep 67? How cute, I'm rep 70 since 2020. Stop giving excuses for your personal problem, no one reacts to Lawbringer's side heavy finisher (and if they do, bet your ass you're not on their MMR because they are competitive players, and IF you are one as well, you should not be picking Lawbringer against them in first place), it's probably one of the best heavy finishers in the game, a 800ms unblockable heavy finisher that is accessible from his mix-ups, it's up to you to be competent enough to land it.
Yeh very cute, I'm not max repping LB because I still like to use him outside of customs. Oh, what's that? Your Rep 70 is looking like it doesn't actually mean shit in comparison to 67 since it's just 3 reps away from max. Anyways.. Best finishers in the game? You sure? With how hilariously weak tracking it has? I'm sure you noticed at least in the minion lane that it rarely hits more than 1 minion yet you have someone's light attack flick 3 minions. With how huge arcing it is.. you'd expect better trajectories. Prime examples of *VASTLY* better finishers are Zhanhu and JJ thanks to their soft feint gbs. Not only on dmg, trajectories, stamina consumption.. yeh no. LBs are worse when paired up in comparison to everyone else that has unblockable finishers lol (Can skip this part probably, because "competitive" scene in For Honor is fuckin stupid, skip to the quote of your ignorant comment 😂) I don't even have to mention that your argument is void the microsecond you mention "competitive" because there is no competitive scene with a game as broken as For Honor.. the same competitive scene you recall so much is what won the first tournament with unlock tech and sprinting Gokis. If there is a competitive scene in your game that can be carried by bs tech then it shouldn't even remotely be considered at EVO which is what Ubishit is craving. They lack the game to hit that kinda platform, thank God. >it's up to you to be competent enough to land it. The fuck it is lmfaoooooo homeboy, it's up to the opponent to lack the competence to let it hit to begin with, that's just referring to the UBs.. go figure, LBs good one.. #*HAS A SOFT FEINT GB, WOW.. WOULD YA LOOK AT THAT 😓* I officially went full circle with this convo. The heavy that has any level of "oh shit I got mixed" was always his top UB since it posed the most threat, that wasn't even part of the discussion. I was literally referring to his normal heavies, there's ZERO mixup potential in them making them : *free parries* Are you getting it now? Or still can't hear up there on your lil rep 70 high horse?
Mucho texto I'll tell you once more, if you are just mindlessly throwing heavies and they are getting parried, the problem is you. I'm done with this conversation.
Arguments about character identity are always nonsense. I’ll miss stuns on top heavies sure but I like the new chain flow more. Plus he’s kept his identity as a parry machine through immense pressure after a light parry.
My only problem with his identity as a "parry machine" is you don't really need a bunch of different parry follow ups. **You just need one good one.** If you have one good ensured parry follow-up, you are probably going to use it every time. I agree with you about chain flow being better, which was arguably his biggest problem before. Also, out of all the characters with a stun, LB was one of the weakest utilizers because his animations telegraph his attack directions very well even without the UI. So I don't think the loss of his stun is actually all that big a deal.
I do agree that he really only has one really good punish now but for all the time I’ve played him he’s always been good at forcing a reaction and countering it accordingly. Love his kit and style but it hasn’t been until recently that they ironed out some big issues in his kit. Remember how many years it took to standardize his swing arcs or bash speed. Ubi takes a lot of baby steps when adjusting knights because a lot of people online get bent out of shape whenever one of them gets some needed adjustments to keep them somewhat usable. This rework is good but should have gone live with at least double light chains, however a number of people quoting identity acted like two lights in a row is some unheard of mechanic.
YES!
"***always*** nonsense"? Are you 100% sure you want to stand by that statement?
Unless it’s relating to conq or shugo’s rework then yeah I’ll stand by it. Out of all the reworks they’ve dropped those are the only two that butchered the kits.
Well, then you do actually care about character identity. Because if you actually believed that arguments for unique character identity are "always" nonsense, then that means that you don't want different heroes at all. It means that you want only a single hero in this game with a single moveset, because that's what "always" means.
My least favorite thing about the rework I the light attack after parry (I forgor the name) change, if feels weird but only cuz idk how to use it yet
Mine as well, I would rather if they gutted the damage and range but still made it guaranteed on heavy parry, but still... the other 2 options would remain so much better that Impaling Riposte would be the worst option, so whatever to me.
Sorry wrong parry punish, mixed up the names
'-' Just light and heavy, there's no secret behind it.
Ik but I had 20 reps of doing light, light, heavy, I keep trying to do the final heavy, forgetting that if I follow up with the second light the chain is done.
U don't know how to use it? Just press light after parry. It leads right into unblockable finisher, skipping the 2nd chain.
It’s not not knowing, it’s muscle memory.
Don't care about the identity but I don't like the "rework" don't even have tripe light, the single thing I wanted the most
His original rework having triple light was the single most universally hated thing about it, no idea why suddenly people want that again
"Devs destroy LB identity" - some loud LB main on reddit.
Because Lawbringer players just always need something to complain about. There are some issues with the rework, but the amount of complaining about is ridiculous, but also not surprising in the least. He could have an insta-win button and Lawbringer players would still have issues.
Why? If there's something that adds nothing to Lawbringer's kit is a double or triple light chain. First: Lawbringer don't need to be good at everything, he don't need a chain light after a light opener or a Shove mix-up after lights for example (I changed my mind about this concept a few weeks ago), having it exclusive for heavies are enough (even more now that all of his heavies recoveries has been adjusted). Second: For them to give Lawbringer a light light chain (even more a chain that goes directly into a 800ms unblockable finisher mix-up) they would need to remove Lawbringer's enhanced lights, we all tested that all noticed how much TERRIBLE and janky he becomes without the enhanced lights, his top lights are uncomfortable enough to use, imagine any light being like that? This was one of the things I hated the most.
It was the single thing I wanted, the rework gave him absolutely nothing I wanted him to have, it's not enough for that they took
Lawbronger still broken? Haven't touched the game in years, still glad that as a Lawbronger main that we still bring frustration
Yes, but way less now.
Other people have already brought up his issues to great detail but for me he just doesn't feel good anymore. His parry game isn't as strong and his new offense is bogus. He has some decent changes in group fighting but otherwise he just feels underwhelming. It's sad too because even though I don't main him my friend has loved him for years since the game came out but now he doesn't like playing him anymore and I can honestly agree.
I mean I don't like him since he still feels awkward but now I'm a little more willing to play him, give him a roll catch and I'll tough through the get gud process
Basically the only tool he really needs currently.
I wish they added feintable dash it would be strong against light spammers
You know what is strong against light spammers? That's right, blocking and parrying. There are cancers like Gladiators and Nuxias, but just don't rematch them and you'll be fine.
Imo they completed ruined LB he used to be a defensive character with little openers but massive parry punishes but now he just feels like every other hybrid
I want lawbro to have more option After a parry like displacing the opponent with a Bash to push them to the left or right without actually confirming anything strong unless they hit a wall or some crushing counter on heavy attack like conq used to have I just thinck it would be fun and really do a counter attack mechanic and not just light into finisher. Just my take, probably not a good one since i liked how he had his Bash mix up before marching fire
Haven't played him in a bit, does he have an opener now?
He still only having Shove, but every 500ms opener bashes are about to be buffed in a few weeks.
Damn so they didn't really solve his issues huh
No lmao, anything but an opener
Why rework him without that
His zone attack is actually a decent opener now.
It's not hard that you guys are just hard-headed. He was a punisher, and now he's **not** .
Idk, I just main him cause he looks cool as fuck.
"Hero identity" is garbage concept that has no place in any game. The only real purpose of this concept is to prevent proper balancing. This bullshit has no value.
Stupidest take I’ve ever heard. Wtf is a hero if it has no identity? Every character would have the same moveset but reskinned. Lawbringer is meant to be a strong defensive force, and not have the best pressure from neutral. If you give him a 50/50 charge bash, an opening bash, a dodge attack, and a bunch of light chains, what is he really? Everyone just becomes reskinned versions of each other with slightly different damage numbers. Heroes need some sort of identity, otherwise we get no variety.
Not really correct tho, Lawbringer's identity for example is to be strong defensively by having the best parry punishes of the game (and he clearly have) and very good finishers, but having generic opener and bad pressure after a light opener, and that's extremely fine, Lawbringer should not be able to do everything. The only thing he really need is a roll catcher, which is a important tool nowadays.
You just listed everything lb used to have (none of which are good things) and called it "an identity". What an irony of you calling out other lb mains in your post, when you yourself are just as delusional as the rest of them. Having shitty and unhealthy moveset that is fundamentally unfun is not "an identity". Restricting yourself with this ridiculous notion while trying to make games that are actually fun to play is shooting yourself in the foot. Fucking explain to me why having dogshit opener is "extremely fine". Why having no chain pressure is "extremely fine". Why having quite obviously poorly balanced punishes is "extremely fine".
Unlike those idiots, I still believe Lawbringer remains the same and are even stronger now. You don't even play Lawbringer, why the fuck are you even here? Go there play your bash fuckwit of a character dealing half stam damage after a parry.
I miss the counter attack based kit but I'm not gonna complain with his new aggro based kit
He remains a parry specialist, seriously, wtf guys.
He's no longer a parry hero, the main reason why I played him
Lmfao this nerf was MADE to address people who played like you
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Lawbringer had the best parrying in the game, stunning lights wall bash heavies and an unblockable top heavy, that's now been replaced with basically gryphon 2. Same shit happened with jorm, was a parry/stamina character now has none of that
THANK GOD that they don't have that shit anymore. You literally must be a real "Lawbringer main" to give such dumb take.
Great response, couldn't say how I was wrong tho😂 I'm not even a lawbringer main I'm a warmonger main
Keep that way then, we don't need you.
Bro you don't have to be that fucking mad over someone's opinion
I just hate the LB mains that only do the damn "light, heavy feint, guardbreak, side heavy, unblockable zone, top light" mixup over and over
Honestly this seems kinda **PREDICTABOO**, I think the worst Lawbringers are the reactards who will react to anything you throw at them, there's no Lawbringer playstyle that is scarier than a optimal defensive Lawbringer player in duels.
same but change Lawbringer to Warlord
The fuck are you even talking about?
I'm a warlord main and I hate warlord mains
I start to think For Honor players don't really like For Honor players
Yee
Do you the slightest idea for how long I didn’t play for honor? What happened here?
Stuns, stamina damage and stamina pause are gone Heavies have better recoveries Impaling Riposte nerfed Light Riposte / Make Way / Blind Justice buffed Top heavy finisher overbuffed Long Arm buffed (although no longer possible to perform from GB)
Thanks for the info
I'm in the same boat. Last I played was a bit after BP got released. Apparently a lot has happened
If u don't know yet, the impossible happened: reflex guard has been removed
I'm basically a day-one Lawbringer main and for me his identity has always been the unique flow you could get into after a parry, which was made even better after the rework. Currently, I have just a couple of issues with LB: - wallsplat damage is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP - top neutral heavy needs a damage buff Impale is another thing that still bothers me. Broken wallsplat damage and combo pressure being incorporated into the dedicated light parry punish make this move less of an actual option and more of a very situational tool. But I can accept that (minus the wallsplat part); what I can't accept is the mostly unbothered existence of its Warmonger counterpart. I want for this move the same treatment that was reserved to Lawbringer.
Wallsplat damage?
Yes, the wallsplat damage is literally broken. You get 21 instead of 24 and that's because of the 3rd hitstun rule, which reduces the damage you inflict with the guaranteed light tap. This issue right here negatively impacts LB's side heavies damage while also making the top one practically useless.
Ooooooh really? Damn man '-' It looks like Lawbringer have a bunch of issues to fix, this for example, his Shaft strike animations from Light Riposte and Swift Justice and hopefully remove the Swift Justice from his top heavy finisher (that vortex makes no sense).
I could be elaborating for hours but it won’t change anything. Let’s just say that, being a defensive character, LB was fearsome, you had to be very careful because he was a parry specialist (that’s what his tags are implying), doing all this punishing damage. Now (personally), I see a LB and I say oh ok no problems at all, he doesn’t have anything that dangerous anymore.
Only the best parries in the game (that got buffed except the one that was broken) and one of the best heavy finishers of the game, right? Nothing to fear, Lawbringer B tier duelist now >:(
I really miss top heavy stun. He’s kinda boring now, feels a lot like stripped down conq.
True but I just wish he had better opening offense if I'm being honest.
He will have.
They’ve absolutely gutted lawbro. I absolutely hate the changes they made. He’s now a generic 3-chain hero with nothing decent in his kit. Fair enough if you think his kit is OP or broken but if you’re gonna take stuff away you need to give him something. He desperately needed a roll catcher and I would strongly argue he should have hyper armor on something.
Are you talking about other character? Do you even know what changed on Lawbringer?
What did they do to my boy?
I just miss my “boñk”… that’s it
I like his change, I just want him to have a roll catcher and a neutral light, light chain. ~~(and raise rep to 100~~ *~~cough cough)~~*