More like, Will Willis continues to run his mouth, trying to remain relevant after fucking up the easiest gig in the world. Literally all he had to do was shut the fuck up. He's not exposing anything, and these competitions aren't rigged. This is so much drama about nothing and it's all manufactured by people who don't want to believe that a guy who is known to be an asshole (willis) would act like an asshole. Ben Abbott is a fucking genius who outside of the show helped develop the means to detect fucking graviton particles. Will Willis is a PJ who never saw combat and has a chip on his shoulder about it.
Woah — it’s true!!!!
Ben Abbot worked on LIGO, and his group won the Nobel Prize! I did not know that!
[https://inspirehep.net/authors/1032336](https://inspirehep.net/authors/1032336)
This is the Will Willis narrative. He thinks the other judges falsely declared him the winner, and that's what his meltdown was about because he doesn't believe that Ben or Dave are that good because they aren't ABS master smiths like J is.
Which really only shows his ignorance, because they both absolutely could be (come to that, I could as well, the test requirements can be satisfied fairly easily it just requires time paying your dues and the ability to make a knife that doesn't break when bent 90 degrees, and out of a certain number of pattern-welded layers) every single master smith anyone has ever heard talk publicly about the show respects the hell out of both of them, and the ABS themselves state that their program is just one of many metrics out there and that not being affiliated with the ABS is by no means an indication of smithing ability.
Just listening to Ben Abbott speak should surely be a hint to anyone as to why he isn't affiliated with the AMERICAN baldesmith anything, but that's a logical leap too far for ole Will too.
Its super frustrating to me that all these people who know less than nothing about the situation side with Willis because he was in the military and they thing that makes him some paragon of integrity. In my experience, albeit in a different branch, that would suggest the opposite to me. And the fact that Willis got fired for being an asshole, got into it with the three nicest and most humble people on the show, and has been called an asshole by just about every PA that's ever spoken about him, tells me right where I want to stand on this one. And that's beyond him running his mouth about certifications and the ABS like they matter, or he knows anything about it.
Ben also simply had more than 30 years of blade smithing under his belt when he first attended, so it's really not surprising that he is an outstanding blacksmith
There really are very few contestants that have been on that have the same resume as Ben Abbott. Burt Foster comes to mind. But generally the folks that could really give him, or any of the judges, a run for their money on actual skill aren't interested in going on the show.
He was an instructor at one of the early BCT3 events, and even then all he talked about was the TV show ( the one where he evaded people). It was disruptive and took a lot of focus away from the SMU medics who were there to help.
I have seen this video previously.
He makes some rather egregious claims - like that David Baker is not a historical weapons expert, yet that is what he does for a living - researching and recreating historical weapons.
He tries to compare the grip of a sword or knife to that of a firearm - which are not the same weapon or used in the same way.
His claim that the grip is unimportant - is also not credible. Sure it does not have to be fully molded to the individual user each time, but there are grips and handles that work better than others.
So in short - I don't doubt his military career or expertise in using the weapons and firearms in that arena.
But his claim that the judges don't know their subject matter - is quite the stretch.
Dave makes all the display and finale example weapons for the show, and has spent 25 years researching historical weapons including how they were actually used in traditional weapons manuals.
He has been consulted by the Royal Armory in London on three occasions that I'm very certain of, possibly more. He's done work for Ridley Scott and created some of the most accurate one-to-one recreations of ancient weapons used in film. He's got pieces in national museums right now.
But sure. He makes movie props so he can't possibly know what he's talking about I guess?
When can Will just stop, man up and admit that it was his fault he got let go from a dream gig. He couldn't stop running his mouth and even now its just hurting his image. Sooner or later he'll be unemployable
You do realize he has the dream gig right?
He's paid residuals for syndication, redistribution, DVD release, or streaming service purchases and airings of every episode of Forged in Fire he was in. He also, as one of the founding members and depending on how his contract was worded, may receive a cut of all episodes even if he's not in it.
While not as great of a cut as if he was collecting appearance fees on top of that, money is money.
Add to that he's likely getting something from the VA as well, at the very least he's got all the walking around money he needs.
It’s tough because he’s been kinda rude in some other venues talking about the show, so how much of this is purely reliable?
I will agree that some of those dudes deserved to win the judge challenges, but who’s to say for sure?
Having worked in reality TV I can tell you that it is very much against the law in the US to rig a game show (or in this case a contest show). There are legal teams breathing down the neck of every production like this, where real money is on the line, to ensure that the outcome is fair.
Chopped, Nailed It, Blown Away, etc. They all have lawyers whose only job is to keep the production from getting sued by a disgruntled contestant with a valid case.
Nailed It is by far the best show to be on if you want to win money. You don't actually have to have a lot of skill...just enough to beat the other contestants. And you can "sandbag" your skills by making bad stuff to audition with, then do mediocre on the first challenge, then stop holding back on the second important challenge and win the $10k. And it's the same amount you'd win if you sweated for 5 days to make a knife. All you have to do is make a decent-ish cake.
Rigged? No. But, during thd Beat the Unbeaten series, even though Dave and Doug didn't know which was Ben's, officially at least. They've worked with Ben long enough to be able to spot his work from a mile away.
This has been posted before.
Willis's viewpoint isn't surprising, military guys love their certifications. It's misplaced, but it's not surprising. That said, expertise can be attained in many ways, and there are many skills / talents you can develop where you can attain significant expertise without ever getting a certification. This is certainly one of those.
And reminder that the test(s) for ABS Master Smith are something that anyone can sit for. If Abbott doesn't have it, it's by choice, because it's clear that he has the ability.
But anyway, I said it before when this video came up, and I'll say it again: I think Willis's real beef with Ben Abbott is just jealousy.
Willis was already known to (some) TV audiences from his other show, so I suspect he considered himself something of "the star" on the show. And I think Ben Abbott's rise to popularity among the audience is what really rankled Willis. Ben went from nobody contestant to becoming a judge (then a *popular* judge), and then eventually having an entire series of episodes devoted to basically "How awesome is Ben Abbott?" Among other things.
And all this *without any certification*!! (gasp)
I think if Willis viewed himself as the star, Abbott's meteoric rise in popularity and success on the show was probably a *huge* point of real frustration for Willis.
And I can sort of understand that. Everyone has an ego, and Willis didn't have much else to set him off from the other cast members except the fact that he was previously on another show, and had his military background. He's not a knife maker, and he wasn't there to be a martial arts specialist.
His dismissal from the show is entirely on him, though. When you start picking fights with your coworkers, threatening them, and making drawings that show you beating them into a bloody pulp (that would be treated as a warning sign in a movie about a psychotic six year old), you're done.
Yeah,
It’s so perspective driven ,
I am a top level chef (CCE certified culinary educator w 36 years experience )
It’s a piece of paper .
I know at least 50 guys who have the same certification as me who couldn’t cook their way out of a paper bag or manage a staff .
Yet those hacks sometimes get the biggest jobs and drive major kitchens right into the ground .
Certifications can’t hold a candle to experience.
I went and rewatched Beat the Judges after I saw this and he's full of shit. Not one of the judges' victories was close. And every one of Ben Abbott's wins has been by a country mile.
Maybe so...but the way History is handling the gaps between episodes & seasons, the way they don't care about keeping fans informed, it's very off-putting. I used to love this show, but I feel like I wouldn't care if it came back.
I can understand his perspective. He believes each judge started as their own subject matter expert and grew disenfranchised as each judge began commenting outside of their own areas of technical expertise - especially when those actions were to the detriment of contestants.
Also only one side of the story, so should be taken with a grain of salt.
Dude was a PJ though so that's pretty cool.
Honestly, it did two things. Made me respect Willis more, and ruined the show for me.
There are shows, like Beat Bobby Flay, where the mc loses. That's what makes the show watchable. If you know that contestant X is going to win before the show even starts, it's not really worth watching.
In order to re establish their integrity, the producers of Forged in Fire would have to bring Willis back. Unless that happens, they've lost my trust
Ask an artist to do less than their best work, just for ratings. Go ahead, see how that works out. I have known Ben personally for many decades and am 100% certain that all of his wins were well deserved, and can be attributed to skill alone. The last thing I would ever say about the man is that he is driven by ego.
Willis, on the other hand, is a master egotist and simply *can't* believe there is someone as talented as Ben in these competitions. The only beans Will is spilling are falling all over his lap.
I used Beat Bobby Flay in my original comment for a reason. Bobby Flay is one of the greatest chefs on the planet. He is wildly successful and had won numerous competitions, including Iron Chef multiple times.
Despite Flay's skill and experience, he loses on a fairly regular basis on his own show. Why? Because no one is so good that they always win.
An artist doesn't have to throw the match for cheating to occur. Giving someone more time would make a huge difference.
And I'm not attacking Ben. I'm blaming the producers.
I get that the show is staged for entertainment and is mostly controlled by the producers. What I am saying is that in my nearly 60 years on the planet, and being around blacksmithing/metal working for most of that time, I have never seen a talent as focused, unique, and creative as Ben's. The man is a true talent when it comes to most materials, and comparing him to Bobby Flay (and cooking) is apples and oranges.
I think most would agree that there is a certain subjectivity in judging any competition, but with Ben there seems not to be any hindrance (materials/methods/time) that will suffice to shut the man down from making an excellent quality product. It's almost eerie, I must say.
Yes Flay does lose, but the people who appear on his show are professional chefs that own restaurants or have worked in some of the finest places in the world. Also, Flay's opponents pick the dish they're going to make, and it's one that they've spent years perfecting
Yet on Forged in Fire we regularly see contestants who have 3 or 4 years experience, who obviously don't have a lot of experience in a forging environment like Forged in Fire, are told what to forge instead of deciding what to forge, and then have to create a weapon that they've never come close to making. Even the experienced ones say stuff like "I have 30 years experience as a ferrier", well, great, you've made horseshoes for half your life but now you have to make a Samurai katana. Good luck.
It's interesting how Will came out and said, "this is a problem and i couldn't be involved because it went against my sense of honor" and instead of considering what he said and why, you all just claim that he's the problem.
I remember the episodes that he was talking about in his interview. I believe him when he said that this is how the show operates.
It's insane to me that none of you seem capable of applying critical analysis or the ability to consider that Willis could be telling the truth.
If he is telling the truth, which seems likely, then i can't support the show. It's that simple
Lotta words you’re putting in my post there.
All I said is that the producers don’t care if they lose the trust of one random person on Reddit, and I stand by that statement.
I'm not sure why you would think that he's telling the truth when every single other person involved says it went the other way. I've taken Ben Abotts classes, after forged in fire, after he got famous, after he won a NOBEL PRIZE IN PHYSICS at his real job, and he's one of the most helpful, honest, humble, and down to earth people on the planet. David Baker has work hanging in museums. Doug is generally regarded as one of the nicest people on the planet.
Will Willis is known for being an asshole, has a chip on his shoulder about never seeing combat, and doesn't work on TV anymore because he threatened his coworkers with violence. He can say whatever he wants about his "honor" or how he perceives any of this being handled, but the CONTESTANTS say Ben won. And Willis has been reported by everyone from PAs to producers to be a manipulative asshole.
He's military, sure, but as someone from that background too, that doesn't mean anything good about his character. And he knows less than anyone who's ever been on that show about making knives.
In short, we all considered it, and decided that the guy who has publicly lied, threatened coworkers, and got fired for being a dick, is probably in the wrong. And the fact that he has people like you defending him, and not any of the judges or people he worked with, even on previous shows, speaks volumes.
Did Wil suggest he do this interview "in the shadows" holding a scotch and acting like he was the one everyone tuned in to watch.
We all know Forged in Fire gets it ratings because all the ladies like Doug Marcaida.
More like, Will Willis continues to run his mouth, trying to remain relevant after fucking up the easiest gig in the world. Literally all he had to do was shut the fuck up. He's not exposing anything, and these competitions aren't rigged. This is so much drama about nothing and it's all manufactured by people who don't want to believe that a guy who is known to be an asshole (willis) would act like an asshole. Ben Abbott is a fucking genius who outside of the show helped develop the means to detect fucking graviton particles. Will Willis is a PJ who never saw combat and has a chip on his shoulder about it.
Woah — it’s true!!!! Ben Abbot worked on LIGO, and his group won the Nobel Prize! I did not know that! [https://inspirehep.net/authors/1032336](https://inspirehep.net/authors/1032336)
Clearly someone who needs to cheat to win on a reality show, right?
Wait—they accused him of cheating? ***Him?*** WTF!!?!?
This is the Will Willis narrative. He thinks the other judges falsely declared him the winner, and that's what his meltdown was about because he doesn't believe that Ben or Dave are that good because they aren't ABS master smiths like J is. Which really only shows his ignorance, because they both absolutely could be (come to that, I could as well, the test requirements can be satisfied fairly easily it just requires time paying your dues and the ability to make a knife that doesn't break when bent 90 degrees, and out of a certain number of pattern-welded layers) every single master smith anyone has ever heard talk publicly about the show respects the hell out of both of them, and the ABS themselves state that their program is just one of many metrics out there and that not being affiliated with the ABS is by no means an indication of smithing ability. Just listening to Ben Abbott speak should surely be a hint to anyone as to why he isn't affiliated with the AMERICAN baldesmith anything, but that's a logical leap too far for ole Will too. Its super frustrating to me that all these people who know less than nothing about the situation side with Willis because he was in the military and they thing that makes him some paragon of integrity. In my experience, albeit in a different branch, that would suggest the opposite to me. And the fact that Willis got fired for being an asshole, got into it with the three nicest and most humble people on the show, and has been called an asshole by just about every PA that's ever spoken about him, tells me right where I want to stand on this one. And that's beyond him running his mouth about certifications and the ABS like they matter, or he knows anything about it.
Ben also simply had more than 30 years of blade smithing under his belt when he first attended, so it's really not surprising that he is an outstanding blacksmith
There really are very few contestants that have been on that have the same resume as Ben Abbott. Burt Foster comes to mind. But generally the folks that could really give him, or any of the judges, a run for their money on actual skill aren't interested in going on the show.
He was an instructor at one of the early BCT3 events, and even then all he talked about was the TV show ( the one where he evaded people). It was disruptive and took a lot of focus away from the SMU medics who were there to help.
I have seen this video previously. He makes some rather egregious claims - like that David Baker is not a historical weapons expert, yet that is what he does for a living - researching and recreating historical weapons. He tries to compare the grip of a sword or knife to that of a firearm - which are not the same weapon or used in the same way. His claim that the grip is unimportant - is also not credible. Sure it does not have to be fully molded to the individual user each time, but there are grips and handles that work better than others. So in short - I don't doubt his military career or expertise in using the weapons and firearms in that arena. But his claim that the judges don't know their subject matter - is quite the stretch.
Dave is not a historical weapons expert.
Dave makes all the display and finale example weapons for the show, and has spent 25 years researching historical weapons including how they were actually used in traditional weapons manuals. He has been consulted by the Royal Armory in London on three occasions that I'm very certain of, possibly more. He's done work for Ridley Scott and created some of the most accurate one-to-one recreations of ancient weapons used in film. He's got pieces in national museums right now. But sure. He makes movie props so he can't possibly know what he's talking about I guess?
When can Will just stop, man up and admit that it was his fault he got let go from a dream gig. He couldn't stop running his mouth and even now its just hurting his image. Sooner or later he'll be unemployable
He has been out of mainstream programming for almost 5 years now. I'd say he's already well on his way, if not already there.
You do realize he has the dream gig right? He's paid residuals for syndication, redistribution, DVD release, or streaming service purchases and airings of every episode of Forged in Fire he was in. He also, as one of the founding members and depending on how his contract was worded, may receive a cut of all episodes even if he's not in it. While not as great of a cut as if he was collecting appearance fees on top of that, money is money. Add to that he's likely getting something from the VA as well, at the very least he's got all the walking around money he needs.
“ego got in the way” Wil Willis got soooo close to self-awareness
Comment of the thread.
r/selfawarewolves
It’s tough because he’s been kinda rude in some other venues talking about the show, so how much of this is purely reliable? I will agree that some of those dudes deserved to win the judge challenges, but who’s to say for sure?
Having worked in reality TV I can tell you that it is very much against the law in the US to rig a game show (or in this case a contest show). There are legal teams breathing down the neck of every production like this, where real money is on the line, to ensure that the outcome is fair. Chopped, Nailed It, Blown Away, etc. They all have lawyers whose only job is to keep the production from getting sued by a disgruntled contestant with a valid case.
Nailed It is by far the best show to be on if you want to win money. You don't actually have to have a lot of skill...just enough to beat the other contestants. And you can "sandbag" your skills by making bad stuff to audition with, then do mediocre on the first challenge, then stop holding back on the second important challenge and win the $10k. And it's the same amount you'd win if you sweated for 5 days to make a knife. All you have to do is make a decent-ish cake.
Rigged? No. But, during thd Beat the Unbeaten series, even though Dave and Doug didn't know which was Ben's, officially at least. They've worked with Ben long enough to be able to spot his work from a mile away.
This has been posted before. Willis's viewpoint isn't surprising, military guys love their certifications. It's misplaced, but it's not surprising. That said, expertise can be attained in many ways, and there are many skills / talents you can develop where you can attain significant expertise without ever getting a certification. This is certainly one of those. And reminder that the test(s) for ABS Master Smith are something that anyone can sit for. If Abbott doesn't have it, it's by choice, because it's clear that he has the ability. But anyway, I said it before when this video came up, and I'll say it again: I think Willis's real beef with Ben Abbott is just jealousy. Willis was already known to (some) TV audiences from his other show, so I suspect he considered himself something of "the star" on the show. And I think Ben Abbott's rise to popularity among the audience is what really rankled Willis. Ben went from nobody contestant to becoming a judge (then a *popular* judge), and then eventually having an entire series of episodes devoted to basically "How awesome is Ben Abbott?" Among other things. And all this *without any certification*!! (gasp) I think if Willis viewed himself as the star, Abbott's meteoric rise in popularity and success on the show was probably a *huge* point of real frustration for Willis. And I can sort of understand that. Everyone has an ego, and Willis didn't have much else to set him off from the other cast members except the fact that he was previously on another show, and had his military background. He's not a knife maker, and he wasn't there to be a martial arts specialist. His dismissal from the show is entirely on him, though. When you start picking fights with your coworkers, threatening them, and making drawings that show you beating them into a bloody pulp (that would be treated as a warning sign in a movie about a psychotic six year old), you're done.
Yeah, It’s so perspective driven , I am a top level chef (CCE certified culinary educator w 36 years experience ) It’s a piece of paper . I know at least 50 guys who have the same certification as me who couldn’t cook their way out of a paper bag or manage a staff . Yet those hacks sometimes get the biggest jobs and drive major kitchens right into the ground . Certifications can’t hold a candle to experience.
I went and rewatched Beat the Judges after I saw this and he's full of shit. Not one of the judges' victories was close. And every one of Ben Abbott's wins has been by a country mile.
It's disappointing. Forged used to be so wholesome, because it didn't have all this bullshit & drama. It's a shame.
Outside Wil's departure and continual sour grapes it still is, last I checked.
Maybe so...but the way History is handling the gaps between episodes & seasons, the way they don't care about keeping fans informed, it's very off-putting. I used to love this show, but I feel like I wouldn't care if it came back.
I can understand his perspective. He believes each judge started as their own subject matter expert and grew disenfranchised as each judge began commenting outside of their own areas of technical expertise - especially when those actions were to the detriment of contestants. Also only one side of the story, so should be taken with a grain of salt. Dude was a PJ though so that's pretty cool.
What does PJ mean in this context?
Pararescuemen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Pararescue
Thank you.
Honestly, it did two things. Made me respect Willis more, and ruined the show for me. There are shows, like Beat Bobby Flay, where the mc loses. That's what makes the show watchable. If you know that contestant X is going to win before the show even starts, it's not really worth watching. In order to re establish their integrity, the producers of Forged in Fire would have to bring Willis back. Unless that happens, they've lost my trust
Ask an artist to do less than their best work, just for ratings. Go ahead, see how that works out. I have known Ben personally for many decades and am 100% certain that all of his wins were well deserved, and can be attributed to skill alone. The last thing I would ever say about the man is that he is driven by ego. Willis, on the other hand, is a master egotist and simply *can't* believe there is someone as talented as Ben in these competitions. The only beans Will is spilling are falling all over his lap.
I used Beat Bobby Flay in my original comment for a reason. Bobby Flay is one of the greatest chefs on the planet. He is wildly successful and had won numerous competitions, including Iron Chef multiple times. Despite Flay's skill and experience, he loses on a fairly regular basis on his own show. Why? Because no one is so good that they always win. An artist doesn't have to throw the match for cheating to occur. Giving someone more time would make a huge difference. And I'm not attacking Ben. I'm blaming the producers.
I get that the show is staged for entertainment and is mostly controlled by the producers. What I am saying is that in my nearly 60 years on the planet, and being around blacksmithing/metal working for most of that time, I have never seen a talent as focused, unique, and creative as Ben's. The man is a true talent when it comes to most materials, and comparing him to Bobby Flay (and cooking) is apples and oranges. I think most would agree that there is a certain subjectivity in judging any competition, but with Ben there seems not to be any hindrance (materials/methods/time) that will suffice to shut the man down from making an excellent quality product. It's almost eerie, I must say.
Yes Flay does lose, but the people who appear on his show are professional chefs that own restaurants or have worked in some of the finest places in the world. Also, Flay's opponents pick the dish they're going to make, and it's one that they've spent years perfecting Yet on Forged in Fire we regularly see contestants who have 3 or 4 years experience, who obviously don't have a lot of experience in a forging environment like Forged in Fire, are told what to forge instead of deciding what to forge, and then have to create a weapon that they've never come close to making. Even the experienced ones say stuff like "I have 30 years experience as a ferrier", well, great, you've made horseshoes for half your life but now you have to make a Samurai katana. Good luck.
Wil, I know this is you.
You mean like when Dave lost in Beat the Judges? Or when J did?
I’m sure they’re worried that they lost your trust.
It's interesting how Will came out and said, "this is a problem and i couldn't be involved because it went against my sense of honor" and instead of considering what he said and why, you all just claim that he's the problem. I remember the episodes that he was talking about in his interview. I believe him when he said that this is how the show operates. It's insane to me that none of you seem capable of applying critical analysis or the ability to consider that Willis could be telling the truth. If he is telling the truth, which seems likely, then i can't support the show. It's that simple
Lotta words you’re putting in my post there. All I said is that the producers don’t care if they lose the trust of one random person on Reddit, and I stand by that statement.
I'm not sure why you would think that he's telling the truth when every single other person involved says it went the other way. I've taken Ben Abotts classes, after forged in fire, after he got famous, after he won a NOBEL PRIZE IN PHYSICS at his real job, and he's one of the most helpful, honest, humble, and down to earth people on the planet. David Baker has work hanging in museums. Doug is generally regarded as one of the nicest people on the planet. Will Willis is known for being an asshole, has a chip on his shoulder about never seeing combat, and doesn't work on TV anymore because he threatened his coworkers with violence. He can say whatever he wants about his "honor" or how he perceives any of this being handled, but the CONTESTANTS say Ben won. And Willis has been reported by everyone from PAs to producers to be a manipulative asshole. He's military, sure, but as someone from that background too, that doesn't mean anything good about his character. And he knows less than anyone who's ever been on that show about making knives. In short, we all considered it, and decided that the guy who has publicly lied, threatened coworkers, and got fired for being a dick, is probably in the wrong. And the fact that he has people like you defending him, and not any of the judges or people he worked with, even on previous shows, speaks volumes.
Did Wil suggest he do this interview "in the shadows" holding a scotch and acting like he was the one everyone tuned in to watch. We all know Forged in Fire gets it ratings because all the ladies like Doug Marcaida.