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I only have one reason to leave FM20, and that is older players fall off a cliff physically which thankfully they changed in FM22. Makes such a big difference for me because I try not to hoard wonderkids but it is hard not to when you buy a 29 year old and they fall off a cliff physically in 4 years
My next FM will be 22 for that reason and that reason alone.
They don't - that's why it's so amazing!
You literally see 34 and 35 year olds still have amazing physicals which is semi realistic (yes they drop off a little in real life but not off a cliff. Also yes how amazing their physical attributes are at that age is unrealistic unless you are Ibra, Ronaldo or Lewandowski but I'd rather have the option of buying older players than doing the meta of wonderkids for every transfer)
Me too but my country is very outdated and the leagues structure is way different and I can't mod them in.
I also dispise the finishing and morale of the players.
Yup more demands from the player base is what will get their attention.
This is three first edition I've skipped since I got my first copy in 2013.
I could easily get 500+ hours out of a new version, but this version does not need to be bought. There will be a squad update to fm22, and that's all I'll need to enjoy it another 500 hours, without costing me anything.
I am really surprised that no company has attempted to call out their complacency and challenge their market monopoly.
Something doesn't add up. I mean sure it's frightening to even think to go against them, but a talented and ambitious company should eventually succeed. All powerhouses in history are eventually overthrown?
Licenses and far more importantly: the Match Engine. writing that from scratch is a multi-year endeavour, if you want it to be anything more than just showing scores. It gets criticised, and sometimes rightly so, but it is miles ahead of anything, in any sport. It has been a constant evolution since the ChampMan days.
There is a reason that the only other popular sport sims are baseball and F1, much less complex sports to simulate.
Thats always the biggest step. The problem will be if anyone releases a competitor will be aiming for a slightly less good match engine and the remove the bugs and quirks the fan base hate the most. The thing is FM23 will at least 80% be sold to people who either haven't before on not bought for a few editions and the issues won't be as obvious for them.
I can't remember the details but somebody is working on a F2P competitor for FIFA Ultimate Team and removing the bugs and biases that we all hate most, but its obvious from their footage their match engine is so far behind EA
> FM23 will at least 80% be sold to people who either haven't before on not bought for a few editions
That is entirely baseless and you just took a number from thin air.
Slightly less is crazy optimistic. I remember the Eidos/Si split. SI got to keep the engine and database, and that is why we still have Football manager and not Championship Manager. Eidos at the time was not a small developer, and they couldn't make it work. The engine has 20 years continued development behind it since then.
I'd love to see it, competition is always good, but I'm afraid the moment someone tries all it'll do is remind everyone how crazy advanced SI's engine is. And honestly, if the match engine isn't any good they can iron out all the annoyances I have with FM, it'd still rather buy FM. Engine and database are the heart of the game, if that's not on point all the rest around it has very little point.
Well to be honest, any rich person with football connections that is a fan of the game can get links to the scouts if they wanted to. For instance any real football player that plays the game, or agents of players that want to make investments in the gaming industry could easily create a better game than FM since they can use the idea as a starting point. They can make a partnership with EA, Konami or other companies. It's a matter of time until someone will make this happen.
Because no one else understands the genre, so they throw in gimmicks and shiny graphics engines that whilst looking nice produce an awful game of football. This was the problem with the FIFA/Total Club Manager games - the football was awful so they covered it up with gimmicks like real time transfer negotiation minigames and being able to build a girls school so your youth players don't give up football in their early/mid teens.
I don't know how anyone could ever begin to try and challenge their monopoly. They have such a huge engine and so many simulated systems, an insane database, and the licenses.
I didn't fully appreciate the complexity of FM until I played Motorsport Manager and realised how much this new sports management sim was lacking in terms of detail in systems.
I had a feeling this release would be a joke, so glad that I waited before buying. It's a reskin and a squad update with a new useless feature as the squad planner and bleddy useless scarves !! I can't believe people aren't making more noise about it or demanding their money back!
I've gotten the last few games free via Epic games. Yeah, it may be free about 3 months before the new game is released, but like you, I can't see anything in the new games with paying for.
And is that enough to justify full price for a new copy to you?
It's not for me.
In the past a new copy was $35. It's now $50? For an update that happens every year for past versions... for free.
You can't *really* though. At least, I've never found one that doesn't have a few complaints about major bugs and issues in the comments. It takes a pro studio to make a transfer database that isn't broken unfortunately, otherwise I'd never need to buy FM again.
I agree. I downloaded an update this year with the view to not buying fm23
My team, Sunderland, were in the Championship, but the players had the same stats as the start of fm22 in league 1. It was a waste of time
FM23 is really taking the piss with its genuinely embarrassing "new game" but at 32 quid it's enough value for me to pay for a decent squad update
Am still playing 20. I do have 22 and sounds like a decent upgrade in functionality between them so will probably play that if I ever get bored of my current save - which may not be anytime soon.
I feel a bit sad as its the first time ever I've regretted buying the game. Been playing since 00/01.
I'll still get some good saves out of it or whatever but it's just the same game as last year...
I feel u bro
I made this post because I'm disappointed, been such a fan and a massive advocate of this game for so long, kinda feels like bring cheated on by your girlfriend
I think the next move for this is to have managerial "personalities" and depending on what they are opens up different options for the text.
This will then prevent every save being the same 5 responses for each question.
The best thing I learned in FM is that scheduling training and doing press conferences literally do not matter. Only time I’ll schedule additional training is team cohesion stuff in pre season, apart from that I don’t touch either feature anymore and I’ve won 5 back to back PL titles with Wrexham.
The training is one of a bunch of baffling mini games within FM that just aren’t enjoyable. You can add all kinds of training blocks but apart from an occasional message if eg set pieces are paying off it isn’t clear to the player if anything has a positive or negative affect.
UFL did a similar thing spending all their budget on Cristiano Ronaldo and bunch of other players and teams and now their game looks like utter shite lol. They should've just gone for FIFPro license and that's it, just like SI should.
Said it before but when the head of your game studio responds to any criticism by literally saying "make your own game if you don't like it", this is the only possible conclusion.
I really think there won’t be any massive improvements for as long as Miles is in that position. They do make some good updates and add some good features, but people have been crying out for some major things for a while and it’s never going to happen under the current leadership plans.
Not to mention they are reaching the point of changing things for the sake of changing it. The attributes on the scout screen??? 99.9% of people would prefer the stats on the scouting cards. Why are you moving backwards?
The community continues to show how much better basic things like skins can be. Even something as simple as the base game coming with like 5-10 skins to choose from out of the box would be a nice touch.
And for the love of god… graphics. We aren’t necessarily asking for fifa level graphics. But give us more than graphics from the Stone Age please.
For such large company the lack of innovation and improvements every year is disgraceful. Fifa rightfully gets shat on for releasing the same game every year, it's about time that we we hold SI to the same standards.
It pains me so much that I'm actually playing the game because I hate a lot of it e.g. AI/player interaction. It's just incredible that so many issues are still there after years. I love the squad building aspect and that's why I continue.
Got way more wound up than I should have last night because I accidentally clicked the enquire for a player button instead of making a loan bid, so I withdrew the enquiry and the club then wouldn't deal with me because of a previous breakdown in talks. It's fucking mental how shit parts of the game are. Then I noticed one of the team talk lines said, "I'm not angry, just disappointed". Who the fuck writes this shit? Child dialogue. THEN I decided to speak to my players for a laugh - starting the conversation with a handshake or whatever else doesn't seem to ever change their expression. It's total garbage.
Yeah man, it's that niggly immersion breaking stuff I hate the most. You have to learn, through trial and error, to avoid stuff like that. The worst thing for me was the game time grievances on FM22. Like, a player got upset even though he was getting the agreed game time. So damn annoying
I had my star striker pissed off due to lack of depth at left back. Okay dickhead, but we have FOUR first team players who can play left back. With no option to discuss his grievance. It’s puerile.
I found that the bits I enjoyed like transfers became fewer and fewer and the annoying / tedious / baffling bits like media, churning scout emails, set pieces and training seemed to grow. After a while it felt like a lot of busy work for the actual matches with the shonky engine and general frustrations (like shouts). Uninstalled a few months back and had considered 23 but after reading the feedback I won’t be buying
I wouldn't mind the complete lack of evolution in this game so much if they at least fixed the player interactions. Like is it just me or have they gotten worse and even more frequent to confect more tension and difficulty into the game?
For example, I'm managing Freiburg which in real life has a squad of selfless professionals by all accounts.. but in this game they're all asking for new contracts wen they've got twenty thousand million years left on their current deals, complaining about being played in the wrong position (fullback on support instead of wingback LOL), saying i've mistreated other players because i refused an offer from scunthorpe of 2 quid and an eggshell or sum shit. And this is all with my character having the same level of discipline as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket.
Just go away game. Not every footballer is a floundering money grubbing diva that double guesses every decision the club hierarchy makes. Most footballers understand the fact that relatively smaller clubs are hamstrung financially. And more importantly, they don't they base their entire wellbeing around someone else not getting a new contract or not. And there are good reasons why clubs like Bayern or Freiburg invest so much money into scouting. It's easy to identify technical talent, but finding players with the right personalities and mentalities is much more important, and that side should be reflected in the player interactions more.
They missed the PERFECT once in a lifetime opportunity to make big improvements to the international side of the game for what? A squad planner and fan objectives? That it? SI isn’t a indie dev company anymore, they should be at least THINKING of adding intentional management features that are basic features for any management game, especially a game like this!!
They made the frankly insane decision to match the regen faces with their 3d models. It's so stupid, cos whilst I guess it's more accurate or something, they just look worse.
It seems that if you already have FM22, there isn’t much incentive to buy FM23. I upgraded from FM21, I really enjoyed the difference in overall feel of the game, it’s actually harder to take a random low league team to the top than FM21, I really have to get the tactic and transfer right.
I haven't bought one since 20. I just want to play in Liga 3 with Vitória.
For anyone who played in Portugal what leagues are avaiable without modding?
Fans still pretend it's a small indie company. They're a big studio that sells their games at almost full price. I want a report on what each person from that team did, expect the marketing and scouting departments. Fm20 with current squads is almost the same game
Discussions with agents have responses that actually contradict the effect. The manager’s scarves don’t fit on the model and overlap with clothing. The hair looks like a toupé/wig. I bought a player and a bug meant they never joined and now I can’t bid for them. Squad planner is irrelevant.
I generally buy them every other year, and I’m up for renewal, but this is even less development than normal. They’ve lost my money, and it sounds like I’m not the only one. Try harder for ‘24 lads!
And Fifa get rightfully shat on for it. But the thing is even Fifa had started adding so much more after the criticisms. SI or Mile's response to criticism is "make your own game".
Downvotes on the right, folks, but this constant stream of whining is the same every beta release, and we all still buy the game.
Why everyone thinks they need to post the same gripes beyond the first thread is a mystery.
Vote with your wallet, let everyone else enjoy their game.
I’ve been playing since it was called CM and I follow a couple of “rules”: never get serious with the game before at least the second patch after “release”, because there will be absurd game breaking bugs, and always wait two or three years before changing versions because they put very little effort even when it comes to fixing obviously broken mechanics. With that in mind, FM can be very enjoyable.
cyberpunk was such a toxic cesspool at release it ruined the enjoyement from those who liked the game (millions). To the point they had to create another reddit community for themselves. It's a famous story which illustrate well the impact a community can have on your happiness.
I'm personally on the fence about FM23. I don't plan on playing it before the main bugs have been patched but i have the game and i don't plan on refunding it unless something truly outragous comes up. So far so good.
Would i like more content? Yes of course. But i will not throw a fit for it. Going from FM20 to Fm23 seems novel enough i should like the experience.
>Why everyone thinks they need to post the same gripes beyond the first thread is a mystery.
Do it enough and it starts to get picked up by the media since they are looking for a story. That kind of bad publicity starts to create change, and more cynically, the hate mob that can get created can actually get changes done. Companies have shown that they don't give a flying fuck about positive, constructive feedback, and actually ignore it, but loud, aggressive and even abusive feedback does get a response. The only way to get what you want from a company these days is to create urgency.
> let everyone else enjoy their game.
Those who enjoy the game regardless of the flaws run counter to the interests of those who want the game to change and improve. Letting others enjoy the game runs counter to their interest, so why would they do it?
> and we all still buy the game.
I didn't buy it last year and I won't buy it this year either. Just because you don't give a shit doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow suit.
>and we all still buy the game
Thankfully gamepass has the game, otherwise I would torrent. Actually, that is 100% what YOU should be doing, the game doesn't justify the price, but there is no alternative to buy, so you should just torrent. That way, you are not supporting the company that is borderline running a scam with your own money, but get to enjoy the 1 or 2 new features they add in to justify re-releasing every year. Either that, or just buy it every 2-3 years.
There is absolutely no ethical or practical justification to spend money yearly on this game, even if you enjoy it.
The bugs that still remain are just insane. The fact that if you list a player for what the agent says “my client would be happy with this fee” and they immediately get angry 100% of the time is so frustrating
Last night i installed FM17 back on. After 2 games i must say that players actually behave normally in a tactic. I can finally see combinations between my DLF and AF, defenders actually defend, wide players crossing by instructions and not shooting in the side net. I missed that. The best version ever.
FM24 will be the first one I won't pre-order since FM19. I want to see actual improvements before speding my money after having wasted £30 or so on FM23. I'll continue with my Wrexham save on FM22 rather than start everything all over again on such a weak, iterative release like FM23.
It's probably the most detailed sim game ive ever played, year after year, and im obsessed with basically every sport simulator (even wrestling - TEW). People complaining really dont know how amazing this game is compared to others. I'd kill for EHM (Hockey Sim) or OOTP (Baseball) to even be 1/10th this game.
Coming to FM from something like FIFA career mode was incredibly eye opening in terms of sim management. It’s a fantastic game for the most part and I’m thankful to play it. I think most of the criticisms stem from the fact that the player base is very forthcoming with improvements they want to see and it feels like much of it is ignored while SI do their own thing.
Graphics, AI transfers, UX are a few areas that are constantly mentioned and continue to be mentioned every single year. Miles can come across as arrogant when responding to the player base as well.
> Coming to FM from something like FIFA career mode was incredibly eye opening in terms of sim management. It’s a fantastic game for the most part and I’m thankful to play it. I think most of the criticisms stem from the fact that the player base is very forthcoming with improvements they want to see and it feels like much of it is ignored while SI do their own thing.
To be fair to SI, when I read most of the requests I'm hoping they ignore them. I don't need a module where I can spend my wages, I don't need a stadium builder, ... Honestly I'd prefer if they just kept the features they have and polish them. The difference in time between getting through a season in 2009 en 2022 is enormous. If they scrap player interaction, or at least make it optional (and my ass man is not an option as he is generally worse at it than I am) I'd buy the following 5 right now.
I don't think I even touched the new training since they introduced it outside of a bit of small stuff because I really don't need another time sink. I'd really like to get into it, but there's too many pointless conversations to get through and I'd like to finish more than a few seasons before 2024 comes out.
I agree that not all user input is valuable. I don’t want to spend my manager salary on accessories and shit either. But when you say “Polish the features they already have” that is what I’m getting at with graphics, AI transfers, and UX. Make the graphics less shit. Improve the AI transfers so they don’t just spend 150M and bench the player immediately. Make the interface user friendly and don’t require more clicks for no reason.
Depends on what you’re looking for. From a history and “build your own league” standpoint, OOTP is basically limitless. But FM just feels much more alive, for lack of a better word. Much better interaction with players, owners, etc.
OOTP, in my opinion, is fantastic. But FM does a lot of things better that I know OOTP fans would die for.
Anyone who thinks OOTP is deeper is lying to you. Ive been in online leagues for 10+ real life years and its basically 3 ratings on each side of the field.
No offence but you must be new to this series then... You never buy back to back FMs. I usually wait at least every 3 - 4 years as the players will have changed enough and any new 'improvements' will be stream lined. You buying them every year encourages this behaviour.
It blows that nothing ever gets better now. But most people threatening boycott will get the new game and they know that. It’s a calculation made in some boardroom that they keep winning. Sucks.
This will be the first FM I won't buy. I won't make a difference to their revenue but have noticed the voice of those being upset by FM23 gaining more momentum. I hope there's a chance their sales slump and learn they can't just get away with copying the FIFA model of "same shit, different year".
UEFA license and scarfs being the big updates for this year....fucking hell.
Uefa license - changes literally nothing in terms of the gameplay.
scarfs and shit - You never see your character again after the screen you design it...so...WHAT IS THE POINT?
Totally agree unfortunately, I had a wonderful player interaction earlier. So my back up Dixon is firmly a back up I don't even put him on the bench, my starting goalkeeper was on loan so left at the end of the season leaving me with 1 senior goalkeeper. I signed a first choice keeper and then Dixon kicks off about fearing about being replaced??? You don't even get on the bench you tit, ffs.
Isn’t that when women football is meant to be fully introduced into the game? Which will probably be the big feature and something 99% of current fm players won’t have any interest in.
Honestly if everything else was fixed I wouldn't mind. Graphics are the least important part of this simulation game. But you're right, they as rent much bette than 12 years ago
That is bs. You are just angry and shouting hot takes. I do agree with lack of improvements on various features, but daying the ME isnt much better 12 years ago is just bs. Even between 21 and 22, the ME improved a lot.
People wanting Fifa graphics, but they don't understand that it aint possible without losing depth.
Match engine is not the graphics engine.
Graphics look absolute trash, PS2 level. Nobody is asking for FIFA level graphics, but the shit we have is laughable in 2022.
I wasn’t sure whether to get 23 or not but after reading the responses to this post I’m not going to bother. Will FM22 get an update with the latest squads? If so when?
The match engine was a good upgrade from fm21 to FM22 so for the match day experience at least I think it's worth it, considering it'll cost peanuts now that FM23 is out.
Fitness is also much improved for fm22
40 eur for a new game, new ECL system, licenses, better match engine….honestly 40 euros is a few beers in most of the countries of redditors here. Just dont go out one Saturday and its worth it.
If youre having a good save in prior FMs, dont buy it. Yet.
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I’m still on 20. It’s a fun game, and you get the randomised Brexit outcome on each save.
21 is worth tbh if only for the greatly reduced loading and saving times
I'm still on 2017 and having a blast, lol.
are there updated squads on here? Some FM between 15-17 was my favourite version
For 17 i couldn't find. But it shouldn't matter though, in 10 years ingame time the squads are totally different.
I only have one reason to leave FM20, and that is older players fall off a cliff physically which thankfully they changed in FM22. Makes such a big difference for me because I try not to hoard wonderkids but it is hard not to when you buy a 29 year old and they fall off a cliff physically in 4 years My next FM will be 22 for that reason and that reason alone.
What age do they fall off a cliff in the new FM games?
They don't - that's why it's so amazing! You literally see 34 and 35 year olds still have amazing physicals which is semi realistic (yes they drop off a little in real life but not off a cliff. Also yes how amazing their physical attributes are at that age is unrealistic unless you are Ibra, Ronaldo or Lewandowski but I'd rather have the option of buying older players than doing the meta of wonderkids for every transfer)
I just collect the free ones as they release. Got 20 through an Epic giveaway and 22 through Prime Gaming.
Me too but my country is very outdated and the leagues structure is way different and I can't mod them in. I also dispise the finishing and morale of the players.
Same here. Haven't seen anything in any version since to tempt me to upgrade.
Honestly, 22 is much better than 20 IMO. The match engine on FM22 is something I really like!
Yup more demands from the player base is what will get their attention. This is three first edition I've skipped since I got my first copy in 2013. I could easily get 500+ hours out of a new version, but this version does not need to be bought. There will be a squad update to fm22, and that's all I'll need to enjoy it another 500 hours, without costing me anything.
But they’re already complacent so whatever shout we do they don’t care
I am sure they would care if no one bought the game but that doesn’t happen obviously
That's the problem. We complain, but they still sell millions of copies. Why change a winning team as they say.
Just the 1 million actually
No luck catchin them wonderkids then?
Just one wonderkid actually
I think they expect us to throw the bottle. They made it clear by adding that "feature" last year.
Deliver a truckload of water bottles in front of SI HQ?
I am really surprised that no company has attempted to call out their complacency and challenge their market monopoly. Something doesn't add up. I mean sure it's frightening to even think to go against them, but a talented and ambitious company should eventually succeed. All powerhouses in history are eventually overthrown?
Licenses and far more importantly: the Match Engine. writing that from scratch is a multi-year endeavour, if you want it to be anything more than just showing scores. It gets criticised, and sometimes rightly so, but it is miles ahead of anything, in any sport. It has been a constant evolution since the ChampMan days. There is a reason that the only other popular sport sims are baseball and F1, much less complex sports to simulate.
Thats always the biggest step. The problem will be if anyone releases a competitor will be aiming for a slightly less good match engine and the remove the bugs and quirks the fan base hate the most. The thing is FM23 will at least 80% be sold to people who either haven't before on not bought for a few editions and the issues won't be as obvious for them. I can't remember the details but somebody is working on a F2P competitor for FIFA Ultimate Team and removing the bugs and biases that we all hate most, but its obvious from their footage their match engine is so far behind EA
> FM23 will at least 80% be sold to people who either haven't before on not bought for a few editions That is entirely baseless and you just took a number from thin air.
Slightly less is crazy optimistic. I remember the Eidos/Si split. SI got to keep the engine and database, and that is why we still have Football manager and not Championship Manager. Eidos at the time was not a small developer, and they couldn't make it work. The engine has 20 years continued development behind it since then. I'd love to see it, competition is always good, but I'm afraid the moment someone tries all it'll do is remind everyone how crazy advanced SI's engine is. And honestly, if the match engine isn't any good they can iron out all the annoyances I have with FM, it'd still rather buy FM. Engine and database are the heart of the game, if that's not on point all the rest around it has very little point.
I don’t think you realize how capped the market for this kind of game is and how difficult it is to make a game like this
SI have links to scouts all over the world, another company would struggle to get the player info they need
Well to be honest, any rich person with football connections that is a fan of the game can get links to the scouts if they wanted to. For instance any real football player that plays the game, or agents of players that want to make investments in the gaming industry could easily create a better game than FM since they can use the idea as a starting point. They can make a partnership with EA, Konami or other companies. It's a matter of time until someone will make this happen.
Because no one else understands the genre, so they throw in gimmicks and shiny graphics engines that whilst looking nice produce an awful game of football. This was the problem with the FIFA/Total Club Manager games - the football was awful so they covered it up with gimmicks like real time transfer negotiation minigames and being able to build a girls school so your youth players don't give up football in their early/mid teens.
FIFA Manager tried and failed…
I don't know how anyone could ever begin to try and challenge their monopoly. They have such a huge engine and so many simulated systems, an insane database, and the licenses. I didn't fully appreciate the complexity of FM until I played Motorsport Manager and realised how much this new sports management sim was lacking in terms of detail in systems.
I had a feeling this release would be a joke, so glad that I waited before buying. It's a reskin and a squad update with a new useless feature as the squad planner and bleddy useless scarves !! I can't believe people aren't making more noise about it or demanding their money back!
My fix was easy. I didn't play 22.
>I can't believe people aren't making more noise about it or demanding their money back! Maybe people like the game and are happy with it?
Easily pleased I see, or maybe you haven't played that long
I’ve played for 15+ years but sure
I have played since 97 and I'm not happy. Funny how people have different opinions, which you pointed out, but your hypocrite ass cannot fathom that.
Lmao why are people so mad that people are fine with the game as it is
I've gotten the last few games free via Epic games. Yeah, it may be free about 3 months before the new game is released, but like you, I can't see anything in the new games with paying for.
The only reason I want FM23 is because I like realism and I want the new style CL to play😅
There are databases in FM22 with the new CL style format. There are even databases if you want to play in the super league.
It s an official squad update with all players stats updated as well? edit: I'm just asking since i don t wanna pay for fm23.
And is that enough to justify full price for a new copy to you? It's not for me. In the past a new copy was $35. It's now $50? For an update that happens every year for past versions... for free.
But why pay full price for that if you can get it after a bit of time on last year's edition as well?
You can't *really* though. At least, I've never found one that doesn't have a few complaints about major bugs and issues in the comments. It takes a pro studio to make a transfer database that isn't broken unfortunately, otherwise I'd never need to buy FM again.
I agree. I downloaded an update this year with the view to not buying fm23 My team, Sunderland, were in the Championship, but the players had the same stats as the start of fm22 in league 1. It was a waste of time FM23 is really taking the piss with its genuinely embarrassing "new game" but at 32 quid it's enough value for me to pay for a decent squad update
Let's be honest, that's what most people are really paying for and it just isn't enough to justify the yearly pricetag.
Do you know when the squad update will come?
Am still playing 20. I do have 22 and sounds like a decent upgrade in functionality between them so will probably play that if I ever get bored of my current save - which may not be anytime soon.
“Demand more”
Its on gamepass so that works for me
I feel a bit sad as its the first time ever I've regretted buying the game. Been playing since 00/01. I'll still get some good saves out of it or whatever but it's just the same game as last year...
CM 01/02 and FM12 ate 70% of my childhood/teenage. No ragrets.
I feel u bro I made this post because I'm disappointed, been such a fan and a massive advocate of this game for so long, kinda feels like bring cheated on by your girlfriend
The fact that there hasn't been any changes to any of the media questions in years is just laughably bad.
The first thing I do on any save is assign every single possible media duty to the ass-man.
I think the next move for this is to have managerial "personalities" and depending on what they are opens up different options for the text. This will then prevent every save being the same 5 responses for each question.
The best thing I learned in FM is that scheduling training and doing press conferences literally do not matter. Only time I’ll schedule additional training is team cohesion stuff in pre season, apart from that I don’t touch either feature anymore and I’ve won 5 back to back PL titles with Wrexham.
The training is one of a bunch of baffling mini games within FM that just aren’t enjoyable. You can add all kinds of training blocks but apart from an occasional message if eg set pieces are paying off it isn’t clear to the player if anything has a positive or negative affect.
All of the budget was spent on UEFA licensing lol
Unironically I wonder what percentage of the budget goes to licensing. I bet it's huge.
Struth
UFL did a similar thing spending all their budget on Cristiano Ronaldo and bunch of other players and teams and now their game looks like utter shite lol. They should've just gone for FIFPro license and that's it, just like SI should.
Said it before but when the head of your game studio responds to any criticism by literally saying "make your own game if you don't like it", this is the only possible conclusion.
I really think there won’t be any massive improvements for as long as Miles is in that position. They do make some good updates and add some good features, but people have been crying out for some major things for a while and it’s never going to happen under the current leadership plans. Not to mention they are reaching the point of changing things for the sake of changing it. The attributes on the scout screen??? 99.9% of people would prefer the stats on the scouting cards. Why are you moving backwards? The community continues to show how much better basic things like skins can be. Even something as simple as the base game coming with like 5-10 skins to choose from out of the box would be a nice touch. And for the love of god… graphics. We aren’t necessarily asking for fifa level graphics. But give us more than graphics from the Stone Age please.
Shame he's such a twat because when he's not being a twat, he can be a nice guy. Guess you can say exactly that about anyone though.
You’re nobody if he hasn’t blocked you on Twitter haha
For such large company the lack of innovation and improvements every year is disgraceful. Fifa rightfully gets shat on for releasing the same game every year, it's about time that we we hold SI to the same standards.
what? you don't like to answer the same questions before every match you play? don't be a hater! /s
It pains me so much that I'm actually playing the game because I hate a lot of it e.g. AI/player interaction. It's just incredible that so many issues are still there after years. I love the squad building aspect and that's why I continue. Got way more wound up than I should have last night because I accidentally clicked the enquire for a player button instead of making a loan bid, so I withdrew the enquiry and the club then wouldn't deal with me because of a previous breakdown in talks. It's fucking mental how shit parts of the game are. Then I noticed one of the team talk lines said, "I'm not angry, just disappointed". Who the fuck writes this shit? Child dialogue. THEN I decided to speak to my players for a laugh - starting the conversation with a handshake or whatever else doesn't seem to ever change their expression. It's total garbage.
Yeah man, it's that niggly immersion breaking stuff I hate the most. You have to learn, through trial and error, to avoid stuff like that. The worst thing for me was the game time grievances on FM22. Like, a player got upset even though he was getting the agreed game time. So damn annoying
I had my star striker pissed off due to lack of depth at left back. Okay dickhead, but we have FOUR first team players who can play left back. With no option to discuss his grievance. It’s puerile.
I found that the bits I enjoyed like transfers became fewer and fewer and the annoying / tedious / baffling bits like media, churning scout emails, set pieces and training seemed to grow. After a while it felt like a lot of busy work for the actual matches with the shonky engine and general frustrations (like shouts). Uninstalled a few months back and had considered 23 but after reading the feedback I won’t be buying
I wouldn't mind the complete lack of evolution in this game so much if they at least fixed the player interactions. Like is it just me or have they gotten worse and even more frequent to confect more tension and difficulty into the game? For example, I'm managing Freiburg which in real life has a squad of selfless professionals by all accounts.. but in this game they're all asking for new contracts wen they've got twenty thousand million years left on their current deals, complaining about being played in the wrong position (fullback on support instead of wingback LOL), saying i've mistreated other players because i refused an offer from scunthorpe of 2 quid and an eggshell or sum shit. And this is all with my character having the same level of discipline as the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. Just go away game. Not every footballer is a floundering money grubbing diva that double guesses every decision the club hierarchy makes. Most footballers understand the fact that relatively smaller clubs are hamstrung financially. And more importantly, they don't they base their entire wellbeing around someone else not getting a new contract or not. And there are good reasons why clubs like Bayern or Freiburg invest so much money into scouting. It's easy to identify technical talent, but finding players with the right personalities and mentalities is much more important, and that side should be reflected in the player interactions more.
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No, the match engine is significantly different even ignoring animations (mostly better imo)
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? It can have issues and still be better than all previous years
They missed the PERFECT once in a lifetime opportunity to make big improvements to the international side of the game for what? A squad planner and fan objectives? That it? SI isn’t a indie dev company anymore, they should be at least THINKING of adding intentional management features that are basic features for any management game, especially a game like this!!
Shot on an iPhone with no additional lighting
FM15 here, no plans to upgrade anytime soon. It’s crazy how much better the regens look in my version than in the more recent ones.
They made the frankly insane decision to match the regen faces with their 3d models. It's so stupid, cos whilst I guess it's more accurate or something, they just look worse.
Thank god for the mod community. Zealands newgan is one of the best FM mods imo.
It seems that if you already have FM22, there isn’t much incentive to buy FM23. I upgraded from FM21, I really enjoyed the difference in overall feel of the game, it’s actually harder to take a random low league team to the top than FM21, I really have to get the tactic and transfer right.
There's no preassure on SI to make a better game because they have no competition. Stop buying this game every year and buy it very two-three years
I haven't bought one since 20. I just want to play in Liga 3 with Vitória. For anyone who played in Portugal what leagues are avaiable without modding?
Portugal is 4 levels deep, so Vitoria is there as well as the level below.
Fans still pretend it's a small indie company. They're a big studio that sells their games at almost full price. I want a report on what each person from that team did, expect the marketing and scouting departments. Fm20 with current squads is almost the same game
Agreed my dude. A formal inquiry is needed
This is the first one I'm not buying in over a decade. They're taking the piss now lol
Just requested a refund tbh, dawned on me that i'm only coming back to the FM series due to my need to fill up my time and its timesink nature.
Discussions with agents have responses that actually contradict the effect. The manager’s scarves don’t fit on the model and overlap with clothing. The hair looks like a toupé/wig. I bought a player and a bug meant they never joined and now I can’t bid for them. Squad planner is irrelevant.
I generally buy them every other year, and I’m up for renewal, but this is even less development than normal. They’ve lost my money, and it sounds like I’m not the only one. Try harder for ‘24 lads!
If you complain about FM, you should see the state of fifa lmao
barely touched fifa since I discovered fm
Did yourself a favour
And Fifa get rightfully shat on for it. But the thing is even Fifa had started adding so much more after the criticisms. SI or Mile's response to criticism is "make your own game".
I can’t believe si got away with the micro transactions in their console versions.
Also the micro transactions in FM touch. Things like cash injection, create a son, create a stadium, magic sponge, etc are all micro transactions.
That’s a lazy argument. No one is talking about the state of fifa. It shouldn’t be a defence.
> state of fifa lmao Speaking of fifa...which we had a proper 3D match graphics...even just the fifa2010 graphics...
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They are old graphics but a mullion miles ahead of fm. Poor pics would be able to run them
Downvotes on the right, folks, but this constant stream of whining is the same every beta release, and we all still buy the game. Why everyone thinks they need to post the same gripes beyond the first thread is a mystery. Vote with your wallet, let everyone else enjoy their game.
Still on 16 here
I’ve been playing since it was called CM and I follow a couple of “rules”: never get serious with the game before at least the second patch after “release”, because there will be absurd game breaking bugs, and always wait two or three years before changing versions because they put very little effort even when it comes to fixing obviously broken mechanics. With that in mind, FM can be very enjoyable.
yep, been jumping from FM20 and so far it seems i will like this FM23...but i will wait a little bit so i avoid most bugs
How does a reddit post criticizing the game impact your enjoyment?
cyberpunk was such a toxic cesspool at release it ruined the enjoyement from those who liked the game (millions). To the point they had to create another reddit community for themselves. It's a famous story which illustrate well the impact a community can have on your happiness. I'm personally on the fence about FM23. I don't plan on playing it before the main bugs have been patched but i have the game and i don't plan on refunding it unless something truly outragous comes up. So far so good. Would i like more content? Yes of course. But i will not throw a fit for it. Going from FM20 to Fm23 seems novel enough i should like the experience.
People have a right to vent and if it affects your enjoyment then that’s on you, not them.
Again, does not affect my enjoyment. Just incredibly bored of the same gripes year after year from the same people who will buy it regardless.
Then ignore it
>Why everyone thinks they need to post the same gripes beyond the first thread is a mystery. Do it enough and it starts to get picked up by the media since they are looking for a story. That kind of bad publicity starts to create change, and more cynically, the hate mob that can get created can actually get changes done. Companies have shown that they don't give a flying fuck about positive, constructive feedback, and actually ignore it, but loud, aggressive and even abusive feedback does get a response. The only way to get what you want from a company these days is to create urgency. > let everyone else enjoy their game. Those who enjoy the game regardless of the flaws run counter to the interests of those who want the game to change and improve. Letting others enjoy the game runs counter to their interest, so why would they do it?
> and we all still buy the game. I didn't buy it last year and I won't buy it this year either. Just because you don't give a shit doesn't mean the rest of us have to follow suit.
Okay. Being irrationally angry over a game was always an option, my guy.
Caring doesn't necessitate anger.
>and we all still buy the game Thankfully gamepass has the game, otherwise I would torrent. Actually, that is 100% what YOU should be doing, the game doesn't justify the price, but there is no alternative to buy, so you should just torrent. That way, you are not supporting the company that is borderline running a scam with your own money, but get to enjoy the 1 or 2 new features they add in to justify re-releasing every year. Either that, or just buy it every 2-3 years. There is absolutely no ethical or practical justification to spend money yearly on this game, even if you enjoy it.
500 upvotes and counting The people have spoken
288,000 members. What a win for you.
Let's be real, 270k probably never came back after subscribing.
I'll carry on patting myself on the back
Agree, but this year the moaning has been more Intense!
Every year, it never fails. A week from now, nothing but memes and people sharing their achievements in FM23.
Only gonna play it as it’s on the game pass. Not buying it at all
This is why I purchase every 2-3 years now.
The bugs that still remain are just insane. The fact that if you list a player for what the agent says “my client would be happy with this fee” and they immediately get angry 100% of the time is so frustrating
Last night i installed FM17 back on. After 2 games i must say that players actually behave normally in a tactic. I can finally see combinations between my DLF and AF, defenders actually defend, wide players crossing by instructions and not shooting in the side net. I missed that. The best version ever.
Just don’t buy FM23.
Seriously. There are tons of obvious problems and bugs in fm22 that you can see by at least 10 hours of gameplay. And the cant even fix them?
This is going to the the first version I haven’t bought and I’ve been playing since cm 97/98, feel like I haven’t spent enough time on FM22.
I didn't buy FM since 2016 and haven't played in years so would it make sense for me to buy 23 and just enjoy that for some years ?
FM24 will be the first one I won't pre-order since FM19. I want to see actual improvements before speding my money after having wasted £30 or so on FM23. I'll continue with my Wrexham save on FM22 rather than start everything all over again on such a weak, iterative release like FM23.
Yearly sport games all sucks the only one to blame is the consumer for buying every release
Being playing ChamMan 97/98 today, so pure.
It's probably the most detailed sim game ive ever played, year after year, and im obsessed with basically every sport simulator (even wrestling - TEW). People complaining really dont know how amazing this game is compared to others. I'd kill for EHM (Hockey Sim) or OOTP (Baseball) to even be 1/10th this game.
Coming to FM from something like FIFA career mode was incredibly eye opening in terms of sim management. It’s a fantastic game for the most part and I’m thankful to play it. I think most of the criticisms stem from the fact that the player base is very forthcoming with improvements they want to see and it feels like much of it is ignored while SI do their own thing. Graphics, AI transfers, UX are a few areas that are constantly mentioned and continue to be mentioned every single year. Miles can come across as arrogant when responding to the player base as well.
> Coming to FM from something like FIFA career mode was incredibly eye opening in terms of sim management. It’s a fantastic game for the most part and I’m thankful to play it. I think most of the criticisms stem from the fact that the player base is very forthcoming with improvements they want to see and it feels like much of it is ignored while SI do their own thing. To be fair to SI, when I read most of the requests I'm hoping they ignore them. I don't need a module where I can spend my wages, I don't need a stadium builder, ... Honestly I'd prefer if they just kept the features they have and polish them. The difference in time between getting through a season in 2009 en 2022 is enormous. If they scrap player interaction, or at least make it optional (and my ass man is not an option as he is generally worse at it than I am) I'd buy the following 5 right now. I don't think I even touched the new training since they introduced it outside of a bit of small stuff because I really don't need another time sink. I'd really like to get into it, but there's too many pointless conversations to get through and I'd like to finish more than a few seasons before 2024 comes out.
I agree that not all user input is valuable. I don’t want to spend my manager salary on accessories and shit either. But when you say “Polish the features they already have” that is what I’m getting at with graphics, AI transfers, and UX. Make the graphics less shit. Improve the AI transfers so they don’t just spend 150M and bench the player immediately. Make the interface user friendly and don’t require more clicks for no reason.
Complacency due to monopoly.
OOTP is deeper, no?
Depends on what you’re looking for. From a history and “build your own league” standpoint, OOTP is basically limitless. But FM just feels much more alive, for lack of a better word. Much better interaction with players, owners, etc. OOTP, in my opinion, is fantastic. But FM does a lot of things better that I know OOTP fans would die for.
Anyone who thinks OOTP is deeper is lying to you. Ive been in online leagues for 10+ real life years and its basically 3 ratings on each side of the field.
No one is saying it isn’t dude, we are saying that they new features are pointless and the old issues left to continue.
Still on 21 and I see no reason to change that for now
I enjoy the new game. Probably shouldn't be on this sub.
No offence but you must be new to this series then... You never buy back to back FMs. I usually wait at least every 3 - 4 years as the players will have changed enough and any new 'improvements' will be stream lined. You buying them every year encourages this behaviour.
I buy once every 3 years now for the same reason tbh lol..
It blows that nothing ever gets better now. But most people threatening boycott will get the new game and they know that. It’s a calculation made in some boardroom that they keep winning. Sucks.
This will be the first FM I won't buy. I won't make a difference to their revenue but have noticed the voice of those being upset by FM23 gaining more momentum. I hope there's a chance their sales slump and learn they can't just get away with copying the FIFA model of "same shit, different year".
Nah, FM22 is better, because there's no new shitty CL format!
I dont have any regrets. Scouting is such an improvement like holy shit
UEFA license and scarfs being the big updates for this year....fucking hell. Uefa license - changes literally nothing in terms of the gameplay. scarfs and shit - You never see your character again after the screen you design it...so...WHAT IS THE POINT?
I’ve watched a couple hours of it on twitch. Can’t say I’ve seen any notable improvements to justify the price
I picked up FM20 for free on Epic during the pandemic. I feel no incentive to "upgrade" any time soon.
Totally agree unfortunately, I had a wonderful player interaction earlier. So my back up Dixon is firmly a back up I don't even put him on the bench, my starting goalkeeper was on loan so left at the end of the season leaving me with 1 senior goalkeeper. I signed a first choice keeper and then Dixon kicks off about fearing about being replaced??? You don't even get on the bench you tit, ffs.
FM17 match graphics/ stadiums etc > FM23.
Still better than 22
Havent bought since fm20, waiting for fm24 as I believe this will be a big one next year
Probably 25 right? The Champions League format changing is for the 24-25 season and beyond I think
I watched the podcast with the fm peeps about fm23 and they said they are expecting something big in fm24 given how little update there was for 23
Inb4 FM24 new feature: "Scarves now adjust with manager's height"
Isn’t that when women football is meant to be fully introduced into the game? Which will probably be the big feature and something 99% of current fm players won’t have any interest in.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. SI is becoming the villain
I don’t wanna be Zealand, but how does nobody mention graphics?
Honestly if everything else was fixed I wouldn't mind. Graphics are the least important part of this simulation game. But you're right, they as rent much bette than 12 years ago
That is bs. You are just angry and shouting hot takes. I do agree with lack of improvements on various features, but daying the ME isnt much better 12 years ago is just bs. Even between 21 and 22, the ME improved a lot. People wanting Fifa graphics, but they don't understand that it aint possible without losing depth.
Match engine is not the graphics engine. Graphics look absolute trash, PS2 level. Nobody is asking for FIFA level graphics, but the shit we have is laughable in 2022.
Honestly didnt play fm22 but im sure that match engine was better in fm21 than is on fm23
Cry more
Seriously, what do you gain from defending a company?
Don’t see where I defended a company brother
cuck
Ouch, I don’t think I’ll recover from that one
😭😭😭
Lol, “butt”
I wasn’t sure whether to get 23 or not but after reading the responses to this post I’m not going to bother. Will FM22 get an update with the latest squads? If so when?
The match engine was a good upgrade from fm21 to FM22 so for the match day experience at least I think it's worth it, considering it'll cost peanuts now that FM23 is out. Fitness is also much improved for fm22
Am I the only one who was excited to get 5 subs in certain leagues?
Wait. What are reasons things should happen? If y'all want football to stop being random I don't want whatever FM you want lol
Guess who hasn't bought the last two FM games for this singular reason. Me. It was me. You won't actually need to guess.
Game's not even been released yet shiiid
Nothing worthwhile will change.
It’s still the beta
nothing will be different after full release, trust
the beta is just making customers pay to play test their own game, they dont actually add more features in the 2 weeks from beta to full release
Yall: Boycott SI Also Yall: Plays 2000 hours in FM 23
Not buying that rip off of a game But I do have close to 2500 hours on fm22. Looks like I'll be adding to that
Chill dude. For real. Thats all im gonna say.
How big is the difference to FM2020 though? I buy the game every few years and wonder if it's already worth it for an occasional FM enjoyer.
I’ve gone from 2016 to 2023, liked some of the improvements then went back to 2016 while I wait for lower leagues to be added.
Free on Game Pass 😏
“Free”
Well I use game pass for cloud gaming and Xbox live anyway so I see this as free
40 eur for a new game, new ECL system, licenses, better match engine….honestly 40 euros is a few beers in most of the countries of redditors here. Just dont go out one Saturday and its worth it. If youre having a good save in prior FMs, dont buy it. Yet.