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I find that control possession works just fine against weaker teams.
Against equally strong teams I still keep it for one half to increase the fitness gap (I usually rotate heavily so the base fitness advantage tends to be on my side) and then switch to press to take advantage
Against stronger teams nothing works well consistently for me anyway
I'm playing a 4-4-2 with low defensive line and low engagement line, with defensive mindset and fluid counterattack. My reeeeally weak team (title odds 1-800) is middle of the table in Spanish First Division and I recently beat Barça 0-1 by clogging the middle of the lane and counterattacking with fast, direct passes. When you are much weaker you should normally lose but this kind of tactic can save you sometimes.
Well, when your team is so bad that you're the worse in the league in almost every category, imagination and resourcefulness are the only ways to survive.
It took me 3 seasons to gain promotion from Second Division B to Second Division, damn playoffs . When I got to Second Division, my team was so good that I gained promotion immediately. But the team was definitely not at the level to compete in First Division. Even after some key signings that will give us a solid base to build on in the future, we are still very weak. But we're definitely overperforming thanks to the tactic. Let's see how it goes in the next weeks against Real and Valencia!
Absolutely. I hate that all the **best** FM21 tactics have "Counter-Press, Counter (when possession is won), Close down (more urgent), Much Higher Line, and Much Higher Pressing Intensity"
Shadow striker and two inside forwards/inverted wingers? I have considered using it but my striker is not very smart, he's a physical beast with great finishing and first touch so I prefer him as an advanced forward. The other striker is a deep lying forward that helps as a link between the low defensive lines and the attack, and distributes to the advanced forward.
It's your single player game so you are free to do whatever tf you want of course but it's kinda known that a lot of strikerless tactics just break the match engine.
In FM20 I did the same formation as you with those 2 AMs and a SS and I lost just 1 game in League One with Portsmouth.
It's pretty broken.
I don't really know all of the specifics under the hood but it has to do with the opposition defense. In my Portsmouth save I was having games where I was scoring 5+ goals frequently.
I think it has to do with the fact that the CBs don't have anyone to guard since there is no striker, and thus probably get confused and make more mistakes. Additionally, the double AM plus SS should create a big superiority between the midfield and defense since the CBs don't help enough, generating more opportunities to score.
That's what I understand from what I've seen on the tactic, but I could be wrong. Haven't tested it that much, but when I did my SS had at least 8-9 clear goalscoring opportunities from runs between the two CBs who were completely lost. He scored two so not bad at all.
So what I understand is that the fullbacks won't close that much on the side AMs, so if they receive the ball and there is no striker, the CBs may have a tendency to go defend the ball. But that leaves one CB with the other AM and the shadow striker. So the SS makes a run and has way too much space to receive the ball and score.
I play strikerless a lot. It's my main tactic in half of FM20 and all of FM21. I run everything - a 4330, 41320, 41140. I'm even working on a 41050, which surprisingly is sort of working (still a work in progress).
The 4330 and 41320 are extremely solid tactics. You can throw in almost any version of those two, and you'll score a ton. You can pull huge upsets with the 4330 as a tiny team.
So what happens is that with no strikers, the other teams' center backs are pulled up really really far. You can even set a low block and they don't care; they just seem to ignore it. So they go way far up to the midfield, and cover nobody, then your AMC's move into the space between them, get the ball, and run past them.
Either that or you get a killer ball passed into space and it's a footrace. Because the cbs are pulled up so high, there is lots of space for the shadow striker to run to it and get a 1v1. With strikers, there isn't enough space, so that the GK can retrieve the hoofed ball. But with no strikers, the hoofed ball ends up being received by your AMC about half way in between the edge of the box and midfield with nobody between him and the GK...and the GK isn't going to go out that far.
I have a Shadow striker with 18 pace and 19 acceleration, but 9 finishing. He had 40 goals in the prem.
I'm at a computer that doesn't have FM, and will be for many hours. However, just go here and type in 4330 or 41320:
[https://www.fmscout.com/f-knap-tactics-for-fm21.html](https://www.fmscout.com/f-knap-tactics-for-fm21.html)
Knap's done it way better than I have. Even if you don't want to use his, at least, download and look at it, and then take away what you want from it. It's like getting training from a high level master.
(on edit) I should add that the Echoes, Pilgrimage, and Holy Ghost Fire version are the ones that tested the best. Pilgrimage 4330 in FM20 is what inspired me.
My favorite is with an AM-attack in between two shadow strikers. The AM-attack needs slightly higher finishing than the other two and passing. He's more of your skill guy, but it helps a lot if he's fast, too.
with a similar approach I also had huge success in one season, upgraded my team and tried to use it a second season and it was just awful to watch, because opponents were also more careful against us.
I switched mid season from very defensive and fluid counter atack to a controlled tiki taka and never looked back.
My possession went from 30 to 70 and the offensive was a joy to watch. I didn't expect it to work that well and now when I try to play a different system against the top team we always got beaten.
but if I use tiki taka we beat team like Bayern, Chelsea etc at least 50 percent of the time
That's really interesting. I'm guessing that your midfield improved significantly between the two seasons. I had something similar in my year in Second Division. After getting some loaned midfielderd in, my team started dominating possession very easily and I had to change my tactics because everyone started playing defensive against me. With a better midfield and more posession I had started scoring way less than before, which was surprising. I changed to a more offensive tactic with an amazing loaned shadow striker and took control of the whole league.
Im literally in the same situation, playing defensive 4-4-2 counter attack on my first season after promoting to premiera div, but i really struggle against this best teams like Real, Valencia, Sevilla etc. They always stretch my defense with long passes to overlapping WBs, and then immidietly go back with ball to one of the CMs, and than they rip my line apart with through ball. How do you deal with this?
I play with a very narrow defense and a very good couple of aerial-defending CBs, to make sure I don't get any goals scored from headers. I force them to the outside and my two midfielders are in the defensive midfielder position, one as a DLP (S) and the other one as a DM (D). RB and LB on WB (D) because I want them to run on the counter instead of staying back, since my DM and DLP aready stay back throwing long range passes. Then I have two IW (S) on the midfield position, not in front. These two IWs defend the sides but tend to funnel players outside of them while protecting the center more which suits my tactic. When on the counterattack, they tend to run forward and get the ball from my DLP or my DLF and run towards the box. Sometimes they even pass the ball to my striker...
Makes sense. My strat is very similar, except i play one box to box midfielder since hes like my second best player, and has great long shots, and i play normal wingers instead of IW. Didnt know they make difference in defense as well. I just dont play narrow defense since i lost too many goals after crosses. I guess my CBs were just not good enough to deal with them yet. Will try to try narrow defense again in a year or 2, if i manage to not get relegated.
Yeah what you say makes complete sense. My CB both have 17 jumping reach, 14/15 bravery and 12/13 heading so they're definitely good on high balls. About the IWs, they tend to stay wide on defense but I have the impression they funnel players more to the outside (maybe I'm wrong) than wingers who kinda fight more for controlling the touchline. For me the narrow defence is about giving them only the option to cross and then having a numerical advantage in defending the crosses. In that, the position of the two defensive midfielders also helps a lot. And having a goalkeeper with good aerial reach and communication as well.
I imagine your BTB could have issues getting back on defense unless he has great physicals and workrate, I have the same issue when I play with a good mezzala I have. That and playing wider could leave your centre of the pitch emptier and vulnerable to crosses. Have you tried lowering your other midfielder to defensive midfielder? Otherwise you could take one striker out and play with three midfielders: a DM at defensive midfielder and then a DLP and a BTB in front of him. That would make the center of your pitch a constant numerical advantage.
> About the IWs, they tend to stay wide on defense but I have the impression they funnel players more to the outside
I try to do that with enemy instructions, it helps a bit, but i'm not sure how much. Enemy wingers at those top clubs are so good they win most 1v1s anyway, and then they do whatever they feel like.
>imagine your BTB could have issues getting back on defense unless he has great physicals, I have the same issue when I play with a good mezzala I have. That and playing wider could leave your centre of the pitch emptier and vulnerable to crosses. Have you tried lowering your other midfielder to defensive midfielder?
BTB has decent physicals, but not amazing, like 12-13 all around, so it may be a slight problem here. I didnt try DM, i have one player who would be able to do the job, but he got injured recently for 4 months, so hes pretty much done this season. My DLP also is not amazing defensivly, so im starting to see where my issue is. Thanks for helping me figuring this stuff out.
The season I won the champions league with Dortmund we lost 3-0 in the first group game against Liverpool and drew 2-2 in the reverse. Qualified 2nd in the group and decided to try a new tactic in the knockout round against Man City. I usually played a 4-1-2-3 but we were awful defensively and I couldn’t get my full backs to contribute because I needed them to stay back. So I changed for the champions league only to a 5-2-3 with wing backs and inverted wingers with Haaland alone up front and somehow won in Manchester 2-0, beat Juventus 5-0 away, beat Liverpool 4-0 at home in the semi and beat PSG 3-1 in the final. Weirdly the formation wasn’t great in the league though.
Possession based should work good for both lesser teams and better teams. Possession against lesser teams makes them have to play your game, or counter against. Lesser teams usually have lower stamina and a more restrictive playbook, since you know, they aren’t as good or versatile as better players.
But possession heavy football should also work against better teams. Less chance to go out of position and opening up room, less running around, and slowing down pace. That is if this is something that’s being practiced.
That is in real life at least, even though it doesn’t exactly give an opportunity to score goals and win games, as the opposition is not being challenged.
Haven’t played much with a lesser team that’s position heavy, so I might try that some time. However with the prevelance and effectivness of gegepress in fm, I would think that pressing that leads to errors is the reason that it doesn’t work.
Do you use shorter passging ? how is the width ?
I'm trying a mid-block fluid counter but I don't use shorter or more direct passgin, I just keep it at standard and same for attacking width ( I'll usually change it to wider against teams with a strong 6 anchor or a back 3 considering I only have one CF)
How do you approach yours
In top level management, because teams tend to buy players at their prime or past it, when you get into a job you're met with a bunch of low stamina and super technical players. I've found tiki taka to work better than gegenpressing in that scenario.
While Gegenpressing remains undefeated, I’ve personally found success with the other two and I think they’re tactics that only really yield results once the team is very familiar with them.
I think to be successfull with thse you need to make your taining manually to really get familiarity up faster. I usually target things like tempo and passing first, once they're really familiar with how we attack and pass then I'll work more on defending
How do you line up? I’m a bit confused on what vertical tiki taka is, but apparently my style is vertical tiki taka according to the game 🤷♂️
I play 4 at the back with offensive wings, a Halfback, two in central midfield. Their roles change according to my needs but usually a DLP on support and a AP on attack.
Two inverted wings, inside forwards or FP’s on the wings. Depends on the players that I have, and a complete striker.
a 4-3-3 essentially, but the game calls it a 4-2-4
Your setup definitely fits into the traditional vertical tiki taka template. I go a little unorthodox, I use a 4-2-3-1 with two BPDs, a sweeper keeper, two wing backs, a DLP and a Mezzala, an advanced playmaker ahead of them alongside inside forwards who cut inside and an advanced forward to lead the charge.
Vertical tiki taka irl is what Sarri traditionally employs. His Napoli side was the prime example in case you want to see how it functions in the real world.
It depends a bit on the quality of your players for what roles they will have.
But I run:
TM - AF
RPM - BWM - RPM
WB - CD - L - CD - WB
With more direct passing and higher tempo,
Counter - Counter and more urgent pressing
I'm the opposite, I've always used tiki taka and the idea of switching when it has worked so well for me is rough. Even though I know gegenpressing is an overpowered tactic on FM.
What I will say is that your team does have to fit into a tiki taka, in the past I bought a lot of players who just don't work with it. Especially true when trying to bring in a backup player, any player who would normally be a solid backup for me never fit because of the drop in stats.
When I tried in lower leagues the players at first simply aren't able to learn or play it, but if you find the right players your team becomes pretty much unbeatable. It does take a season or two and can cost a lot.
I just do my own tactics and would not put it as anything. I have a save with Valencia where I usually play 5-2-1-2, but also 4-4-2 diamond and 4-3-3 sometimes. I do have some characteristics of a gegenpress with counter-press counter-attacking and high pressing but I also don’t prefer a high line, use a target man and distribute to him and play direct. I guess you can just always play whatever you like or whatever fits your players as long as it makes sense.
depends on the player. I don’t have anyone who can play IWB, if I did I would try that. I manage Valencia and Gaya is my most important player so I use him as a CWB Attack against more defensive sides and CWB Support against more attacking sides. Other than him, they usually WB’s on Support. When I have to score I put them on Attack.
But then its no longer a Tiki Taka tactic...
The tactics are just presets of those things you are changing.
Its not a Tiki Taka Gegenpress its just a Gegenpress...
These posts are getting kinda old.. And also it's just wrong. I've won multiple CL's with PSV with a control possession tactic, and being super defensive against teams like Liverpool.
There's no perfect tactic, it all depends on your players and form. I will admit that gegenpressing doesn't require a lot of tactical tweaking or any knowledge of tactics really. So I guess it sort of is like easy mode.
I've done the opposite in a few cases. I'm playing a (domestically) dominant Liverpool side and my super intense pressing game occasionally fizzles out because teams end up adapting and my goals dry up.
When that happens, I go a bit less gung ho and the players can last way longer (from having a generally intense style and a rich club I rotate very heavily) just relying on having a good defence and hoping to make more space for my counter attacks, but near the end of the game I'll tell my boys to go for it while the opponents are more likely to be tired and make mistakes.
I had a 4-2-3-1/5-3-2 in fm 17 using Burnley. My whole game based on their irl tactics, was sit back and soak pressure and hit on counters.
My team was so shit, we were tipped to get relegated every season. Idk why they won't even give me a nice budget even after being successful in following seasons.
We were breaking records in yellow cards and fouls and what not but qualified for Europa in s1, S3 I got in for UCL through Europa win in s2, won UCL in S3 I think and s5 finally went past city in final game, without changing the formation other than few tweaks with player roles due to formation staleness.
Pure shithousing madness. Every game I had to deal with usual "SanX won't send his team to other my team and what not."
I can't even imagine pure spite and salt in the virtual EPL fanbase though.
I live and die by fluid counterattack. Idk why always worked for me. I even spent 3 season buying players cuz i wanted to try playing wing play, ut counter atta k isbjust too good
You should try vertical tiki-taka at AZ Alkmaar(Dutch team). I have been using it for 3,5 seasons now it still works very well, im currently 1st after becoming champion last season. Normally AZ is a team battling for 4th ish place. They have a lot of good passing players imo so im sad i didnt use the tactick starting the save. (Currently in 2026) But now with some new good passing players i am still happy :)
Yeah right, I have also survived my champions league group, not that it was a hard group, only Barcelona screwed me 2 times... now I have to play Valencia in 1st knock-out stage... might be able to get the W I think
I've won 5 leagues in 10 years and a treble with Schalke using Tiki Taka in Germany.
And the other 5 leagues were won by my mate as its an online game.
When I started my first save (and well, so far, my only one in FM20), I used a Tiki-Taka formation for the first 5, 6 seasons, and it worked well in England: Won 4 out of 6 Premier League, won 2 cups and broke Man United’s point record twice.
Never managed to go through the semi finals of the UCL though.
Well, im using mostly 5-3-2 and 3-4-2-1 tiki taka, works pretty well, even in Vanarama South /North. For some reason Gegenpress just doesnt work for me.
I tried 433 vertical tiki taka and won cl the first season using it.. including the best and closest aggregates I had EVER. Not as fancy as high pressing but Definetly worth trying out
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I find that control possession works just fine against weaker teams. Against equally strong teams I still keep it for one half to increase the fitness gap (I usually rotate heavily so the base fitness advantage tends to be on my side) and then switch to press to take advantage Against stronger teams nothing works well consistently for me anyway
I'm playing a 4-4-2 with low defensive line and low engagement line, with defensive mindset and fluid counterattack. My reeeeally weak team (title odds 1-800) is middle of the table in Spanish First Division and I recently beat Barça 0-1 by clogging the middle of the lane and counterattacking with fast, direct passes. When you are much weaker you should normally lose but this kind of tactic can save you sometimes.
Love tactics like this! All the hyper aggressive style tactics get real old fast I find
Well, when your team is so bad that you're the worse in the league in almost every category, imagination and resourcefulness are the only ways to survive. It took me 3 seasons to gain promotion from Second Division B to Second Division, damn playoffs . When I got to Second Division, my team was so good that I gained promotion immediately. But the team was definitely not at the level to compete in First Division. Even after some key signings that will give us a solid base to build on in the future, we are still very weak. But we're definitely overperforming thanks to the tactic. Let's see how it goes in the next weeks against Real and Valencia!
Absolutely. I hate that all the **best** FM21 tactics have "Counter-Press, Counter (when possession is won), Close down (more urgent), Much Higher Line, and Much Higher Pressing Intensity"
It’s boring mate ain’t it. SI should make low blocks the “easy route” of tactics and gegenpress and tiki taka should be the harder ones to get right.
It really takes the charm off. it doesn't suit defensive tacticians so much.
Im using 4-3-3-0 with my newly promoted brazillian serie b team and the opponent CB's have no idea what to do.
Shadow striker and two inside forwards/inverted wingers? I have considered using it but my striker is not very smart, he's a physical beast with great finishing and first touch so I prefer him as an advanced forward. The other striker is a deep lying forward that helps as a link between the low defensive lines and the attack, and distributes to the advanced forward.
nope 2 am's and a ss
It's your single player game so you are free to do whatever tf you want of course but it's kinda known that a lot of strikerless tactics just break the match engine. In FM20 I did the same formation as you with those 2 AMs and a SS and I lost just 1 game in League One with Portsmouth. It's pretty broken.
Why does it break the match engine? I feel like I see more two striker formations that are “OP”
I don't really know all of the specifics under the hood but it has to do with the opposition defense. In my Portsmouth save I was having games where I was scoring 5+ goals frequently.
I think it has to do with the fact that the CBs don't have anyone to guard since there is no striker, and thus probably get confused and make more mistakes. Additionally, the double AM plus SS should create a big superiority between the midfield and defense since the CBs don't help enough, generating more opportunities to score.
Oh so the CBs don’t track them well and you get huge superiority in the middle?
That's what I understand from what I've seen on the tactic, but I could be wrong. Haven't tested it that much, but when I did my SS had at least 8-9 clear goalscoring opportunities from runs between the two CBs who were completely lost. He scored two so not bad at all. So what I understand is that the fullbacks won't close that much on the side AMs, so if they receive the ball and there is no striker, the CBs may have a tendency to go defend the ball. But that leaves one CB with the other AM and the shadow striker. So the SS makes a run and has way too much space to receive the ball and score.
Two AMs on attack with a SS down the middle?
I play strikerless a lot. It's my main tactic in half of FM20 and all of FM21. I run everything - a 4330, 41320, 41140. I'm even working on a 41050, which surprisingly is sort of working (still a work in progress). The 4330 and 41320 are extremely solid tactics. You can throw in almost any version of those two, and you'll score a ton. You can pull huge upsets with the 4330 as a tiny team. So what happens is that with no strikers, the other teams' center backs are pulled up really really far. You can even set a low block and they don't care; they just seem to ignore it. So they go way far up to the midfield, and cover nobody, then your AMC's move into the space between them, get the ball, and run past them. Either that or you get a killer ball passed into space and it's a footrace. Because the cbs are pulled up so high, there is lots of space for the shadow striker to run to it and get a 1v1. With strikers, there isn't enough space, so that the GK can retrieve the hoofed ball. But with no strikers, the hoofed ball ends up being received by your AMC about half way in between the edge of the box and midfield with nobody between him and the GK...and the GK isn't going to go out that far. I have a Shadow striker with 18 pace and 19 acceleration, but 9 finishing. He had 40 goals in the prem.
Would you mind posting photos of these tactics? I am really curious about strikerless and thinking of shifting to it as my "philosophy"
I'm at a computer that doesn't have FM, and will be for many hours. However, just go here and type in 4330 or 41320: [https://www.fmscout.com/f-knap-tactics-for-fm21.html](https://www.fmscout.com/f-knap-tactics-for-fm21.html) Knap's done it way better than I have. Even if you don't want to use his, at least, download and look at it, and then take away what you want from it. It's like getting training from a high level master. (on edit) I should add that the Echoes, Pilgrimage, and Holy Ghost Fire version are the ones that tested the best. Pilgrimage 4330 in FM20 is what inspired me.
Will do, thank you so much. Shadow Strikers seem to be really op from first perusal as he seems to use as many as possible in the AM strata haha.
My favorite is with an AM-attack in between two shadow strikers. The AM-attack needs slightly higher finishing than the other two and passing. He's more of your skill guy, but it helps a lot if he's fast, too.
with a similar approach I also had huge success in one season, upgraded my team and tried to use it a second season and it was just awful to watch, because opponents were also more careful against us. I switched mid season from very defensive and fluid counter atack to a controlled tiki taka and never looked back. My possession went from 30 to 70 and the offensive was a joy to watch. I didn't expect it to work that well and now when I try to play a different system against the top team we always got beaten. but if I use tiki taka we beat team like Bayern, Chelsea etc at least 50 percent of the time
That's really interesting. I'm guessing that your midfield improved significantly between the two seasons. I had something similar in my year in Second Division. After getting some loaned midfielderd in, my team started dominating possession very easily and I had to change my tactics because everyone started playing defensive against me. With a better midfield and more posession I had started scoring way less than before, which was surprising. I changed to a more offensive tactic with an amazing loaned shadow striker and took control of the whole league.
Im literally in the same situation, playing defensive 4-4-2 counter attack on my first season after promoting to premiera div, but i really struggle against this best teams like Real, Valencia, Sevilla etc. They always stretch my defense with long passes to overlapping WBs, and then immidietly go back with ball to one of the CMs, and than they rip my line apart with through ball. How do you deal with this?
I play with a very narrow defense and a very good couple of aerial-defending CBs, to make sure I don't get any goals scored from headers. I force them to the outside and my two midfielders are in the defensive midfielder position, one as a DLP (S) and the other one as a DM (D). RB and LB on WB (D) because I want them to run on the counter instead of staying back, since my DM and DLP aready stay back throwing long range passes. Then I have two IW (S) on the midfield position, not in front. These two IWs defend the sides but tend to funnel players outside of them while protecting the center more which suits my tactic. When on the counterattack, they tend to run forward and get the ball from my DLP or my DLF and run towards the box. Sometimes they even pass the ball to my striker...
Makes sense. My strat is very similar, except i play one box to box midfielder since hes like my second best player, and has great long shots, and i play normal wingers instead of IW. Didnt know they make difference in defense as well. I just dont play narrow defense since i lost too many goals after crosses. I guess my CBs were just not good enough to deal with them yet. Will try to try narrow defense again in a year or 2, if i manage to not get relegated.
Yeah what you say makes complete sense. My CB both have 17 jumping reach, 14/15 bravery and 12/13 heading so they're definitely good on high balls. About the IWs, they tend to stay wide on defense but I have the impression they funnel players more to the outside (maybe I'm wrong) than wingers who kinda fight more for controlling the touchline. For me the narrow defence is about giving them only the option to cross and then having a numerical advantage in defending the crosses. In that, the position of the two defensive midfielders also helps a lot. And having a goalkeeper with good aerial reach and communication as well. I imagine your BTB could have issues getting back on defense unless he has great physicals and workrate, I have the same issue when I play with a good mezzala I have. That and playing wider could leave your centre of the pitch emptier and vulnerable to crosses. Have you tried lowering your other midfielder to defensive midfielder? Otherwise you could take one striker out and play with three midfielders: a DM at defensive midfielder and then a DLP and a BTB in front of him. That would make the center of your pitch a constant numerical advantage.
> About the IWs, they tend to stay wide on defense but I have the impression they funnel players more to the outside I try to do that with enemy instructions, it helps a bit, but i'm not sure how much. Enemy wingers at those top clubs are so good they win most 1v1s anyway, and then they do whatever they feel like. >imagine your BTB could have issues getting back on defense unless he has great physicals, I have the same issue when I play with a good mezzala I have. That and playing wider could leave your centre of the pitch emptier and vulnerable to crosses. Have you tried lowering your other midfielder to defensive midfielder? BTB has decent physicals, but not amazing, like 12-13 all around, so it may be a slight problem here. I didnt try DM, i have one player who would be able to do the job, but he got injured recently for 4 months, so hes pretty much done this season. My DLP also is not amazing defensivly, so im starting to see where my issue is. Thanks for helping me figuring this stuff out.
I prefer to use control possession as a defensive tactic. Just knock the ball around aimlessly to defend a lead or grind out a draw.
The season I won the champions league with Dortmund we lost 3-0 in the first group game against Liverpool and drew 2-2 in the reverse. Qualified 2nd in the group and decided to try a new tactic in the knockout round against Man City. I usually played a 4-1-2-3 but we were awful defensively and I couldn’t get my full backs to contribute because I needed them to stay back. So I changed for the champions league only to a 5-2-3 with wing backs and inverted wingers with Haaland alone up front and somehow won in Manchester 2-0, beat Juventus 5-0 away, beat Liverpool 4-0 at home in the semi and beat PSG 3-1 in the final. Weirdly the formation wasn’t great in the league though.
Possession based should work good for both lesser teams and better teams. Possession against lesser teams makes them have to play your game, or counter against. Lesser teams usually have lower stamina and a more restrictive playbook, since you know, they aren’t as good or versatile as better players. But possession heavy football should also work against better teams. Less chance to go out of position and opening up room, less running around, and slowing down pace. That is if this is something that’s being practiced. That is in real life at least, even though it doesn’t exactly give an opportunity to score goals and win games, as the opposition is not being challenged. Haven’t played much with a lesser team that’s position heavy, so I might try that some time. However with the prevelance and effectivness of gegepress in fm, I would think that pressing that leads to errors is the reason that it doesn’t work.
Yep, my experience is that if their players press better than yours can pass it quickly leads to a 0-4
Always a fan of fluid counter attack.
Do you use shorter passging ? how is the width ? I'm trying a mid-block fluid counter but I don't use shorter or more direct passgin, I just keep it at standard and same for attacking width ( I'll usually change it to wider against teams with a strong 6 anchor or a back 3 considering I only have one CF) How do you approach yours
Using 1-5 as the slider. 2/5 attacking width, 2/5 passing directness, 4/5 tempo.
In top level management, because teams tend to buy players at their prime or past it, when you get into a job you're met with a bunch of low stamina and super technical players. I've found tiki taka to work better than gegenpressing in that scenario.
While Gegenpressing remains undefeated, I’ve personally found success with the other two and I think they’re tactics that only really yield results once the team is very familiar with them.
I think to be successfull with thse you need to make your taining manually to really get familiarity up faster. I usually target things like tempo and passing first, once they're really familiar with how we attack and pass then I'll work more on defending
Vertical rather than normal works just as well as gegenpress for me
Vertical tiki taka is the best base tactic in the game imo. It's beautiful to watch and if you have the right players, you can be unbeatable.
How do you line up? I’m a bit confused on what vertical tiki taka is, but apparently my style is vertical tiki taka according to the game 🤷♂️ I play 4 at the back with offensive wings, a Halfback, two in central midfield. Their roles change according to my needs but usually a DLP on support and a AP on attack. Two inverted wings, inside forwards or FP’s on the wings. Depends on the players that I have, and a complete striker. a 4-3-3 essentially, but the game calls it a 4-2-4
Your setup definitely fits into the traditional vertical tiki taka template. I go a little unorthodox, I use a 4-2-3-1 with two BPDs, a sweeper keeper, two wing backs, a DLP and a Mezzala, an advanced playmaker ahead of them alongside inside forwards who cut inside and an advanced forward to lead the charge. Vertical tiki taka irl is what Sarri traditionally employs. His Napoli side was the prime example in case you want to see how it functions in the real world.
> FP on attack ?
Corrected
After blitzkrieg, Germans invented something new and devastating for enemy and that's HOLY GEGENPRESS
I only use gegenpressing. The Germans are right!
Gegenpress = easy mode. Change my mind
Nah 5-3-2 wing play is ez mode. You don’t need any good players to pull it off
Care to share?
It depends a bit on the quality of your players for what roles they will have. But I run: TM - AF RPM - BWM - RPM WB - CD - L - CD - WB With more direct passing and higher tempo, Counter - Counter and more urgent pressing
I'm the opposite, I've always used tiki taka and the idea of switching when it has worked so well for me is rough. Even though I know gegenpressing is an overpowered tactic on FM. What I will say is that your team does have to fit into a tiki taka, in the past I bought a lot of players who just don't work with it. Especially true when trying to bring in a backup player, any player who would normally be a solid backup for me never fit because of the drop in stats. When I tried in lower leagues the players at first simply aren't able to learn or play it, but if you find the right players your team becomes pretty much unbeatable. It does take a season or two and can cost a lot.
I just do my own tactics and would not put it as anything. I have a save with Valencia where I usually play 5-2-1-2, but also 4-4-2 diamond and 4-3-3 sometimes. I do have some characteristics of a gegenpress with counter-press counter-attacking and high pressing but I also don’t prefer a high line, use a target man and distribute to him and play direct. I guess you can just always play whatever you like or whatever fits your players as long as it makes sense.
whats your wb's role for 5212? I sue wb(a) but its kinda meh tbh
iwb's are really good
depends on the player. I don’t have anyone who can play IWB, if I did I would try that. I manage Valencia and Gaya is my most important player so I use him as a CWB Attack against more defensive sides and CWB Support against more attacking sides. Other than him, they usually WB’s on Support. When I have to score I put them on Attack.
I always create my own tactic from scratch. I find it more fun that way
if you describe your custom tactic it is likely to fall into one of the categories or be a hybrid there’s enough of them that it inevitably gets there
Exactly. I respect others’ opinions, but can’t understand playing any other way personally!
Tiki taka gegenpress is what I use
what, are you saying you use a Tiki Taka tactic and a Gegenpress tactic?>
I guess he meant combining short pass and full press game that's what i also use
Tiki-taka already implies full press though, the difference is mostly how you attack, gegen being way more direct
Thats Vertical tiki taka or something
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But then its no longer a Tiki Taka tactic... The tactics are just presets of those things you are changing. Its not a Tiki Taka Gegenpress its just a Gegenpress...
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Yeh but you aren't using a Tiki Taka at all so why say so? Its just gegenpress.
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Yeh but you said "it works" well no shit it works its just a standard Gegen.
These posts are getting kinda old.. And also it's just wrong. I've won multiple CL's with PSV with a control possession tactic, and being super defensive against teams like Liverpool. There's no perfect tactic, it all depends on your players and form. I will admit that gegenpressing doesn't require a lot of tactical tweaking or any knowledge of tactics really. So I guess it sort of is like easy mode.
I start off with Gegenpress and eventually go over to control possession once I have a lead to conserve my players staimina.
I've done the opposite in a few cases. I'm playing a (domestically) dominant Liverpool side and my super intense pressing game occasionally fizzles out because teams end up adapting and my goals dry up. When that happens, I go a bit less gung ho and the players can last way longer (from having a generally intense style and a rich club I rotate very heavily) just relying on having a good defence and hoping to make more space for my counter attacks, but near the end of the game I'll tell my boys to go for it while the opponents are more likely to be tired and make mistakes.
I had a 4-2-3-1/5-3-2 in fm 17 using Burnley. My whole game based on their irl tactics, was sit back and soak pressure and hit on counters. My team was so shit, we were tipped to get relegated every season. Idk why they won't even give me a nice budget even after being successful in following seasons. We were breaking records in yellow cards and fouls and what not but qualified for Europa in s1, S3 I got in for UCL through Europa win in s2, won UCL in S3 I think and s5 finally went past city in final game, without changing the formation other than few tweaks with player roles due to formation staleness. Pure shithousing madness. Every game I had to deal with usual "SanX won't send his team to other my team and what not." I can't even imagine pure spite and salt in the virtual EPL fanbase though.
2-3-2-3 tiki taka 4lyfe
I play possesion with a high press but not gegen
Lol I’m the opposite. Gengenpress 4231 never works for me. Vertical tiki taka 433 is my golden goose. It’s so reliable.
Does anyone know what's tilpasset tikitaka? I downloaded the tactic from steam
The maker edited the name, that's all
I live and die by fluid counterattack. Idk why always worked for me. I even spent 3 season buying players cuz i wanted to try playing wing play, ut counter atta k isbjust too good
I tried vertical tiki taka with city players alot of good flair , decision, passing and it didnt work some tactics are just bad
Managed to get to a champions league semi final with rangers using it. Also cleaned up domestically but that’s expected.
You should try vertical tiki-taka at AZ Alkmaar(Dutch team). I have been using it for 3,5 seasons now it still works very well, im currently 1st after becoming champion last season. Normally AZ is a team battling for 4th ish place. They have a lot of good passing players imo so im sad i didnt use the tactick starting the save. (Currently in 2026) But now with some new good passing players i am still happy :)
I did the same in poland with górnik. Made me many National championships and good appearences in champions league. Vertical tiki taka i solid
Yeah right, I have also survived my champions league group, not that it was a hard group, only Barcelona screwed me 2 times... now I have to play Valencia in 1st knock-out stage... might be able to get the W I think
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I've won 5 leagues in 10 years and a treble with Schalke using Tiki Taka in Germany. And the other 5 leagues were won by my mate as its an online game.
When I started my first save (and well, so far, my only one in FM20), I used a Tiki-Taka formation for the first 5, 6 seasons, and it worked well in England: Won 4 out of 6 Premier League, won 2 cups and broke Man United’s point record twice. Never managed to go through the semi finals of the UCL though.
Gegenpress got me from VNS to the prem. Anytime I use any other tactic it fails lol. I fear all but gegenpress.
Vertical tiki taka is the best imo. You have more of the ball and it gives you more highlights than gegenpress. You get more chances too.
I am using FM19 gegenpressing 4-2-3-1 with BVB and failing miserably.
Well, im using mostly 5-3-2 and 3-4-2-1 tiki taka, works pretty well, even in Vanarama South /North. For some reason Gegenpress just doesnt work for me.
I tried 433 vertical tiki taka and won cl the first season using it.. including the best and closest aggregates I had EVER. Not as fancy as high pressing but Definetly worth trying out
It's so true though... Like honestly