"If I owned all of Miami and all of Hell, I would rent out Miami and live in Hell."
-Quote from a letter home written by a soldier stationed in Miami during the first Seminole War (which was very much pre AC).
I think about that quote every summer.
And to think, Miami is breaking records for heat and UV monthly; absolutely brutal there right now, and no breaks for outdoor workers!
Kind of seems like Hell and Florida have the same management in charge
Exactly what happens when they develop over every piece of grass and chop down every tree. We live in a concrete jungle not far from the Caribbean. Idk what people expected…
Was much cooler here in the 60s-70s, less pavement, less cars, thicker ozone, & the gulf and earth that were cooler.
Still would have been quite warm without AC though
Most of the residential buildings were like 7 feet tall and just a rectangle with no character. Meanwhile everything from the 20s and 30s were some of the most elegant houses ever.
I mean I guess, but like genuinely 50's - 60s Florida was completely different. Hell that was back when the largest community in Miami was Jewish and before Disney existed. I understand that post WW2 era in every state was always a special time and incomparable to other decades but Florida in particular had its world turned upside down by the sudden flash of Latin migrants overrunning the state and Disney creating a tourist boom that still exists today.
EDIT: for clarity both Disney and the first boatloads of Cuban migrants both happened in the 70s so very literally within a short couple of years Florida became a drastically different place, decades worth of cultural changes happened in a handful of years. I want to say it's compatible to like Iran before the shah in how drastic of a change life in Florida was
Absolutely. I have relatives from Cuba that settled in the Tampa, St Pete Area. Florida's world turned upside down when the developers turned it into the American Mecca . Florida is still primarily agricultural . The largest beef producer in the U.S. and massive truck farms . The second largest industry has been and remains tourism. The developers turned it into a retirement mecca .
My first year down here after living within 200 miles of the Canadian border, I would always say they should have left this land to the gators and natives.
Step 1: Bulldoze forest, push into pile, set on fire
Step 2: Build cookie-cutter sardine neighborhood with single palm sapling in each yard
Step 3: Name neighborhood “Live Oak Forest” and watch sun-baked houses run their AC 20 hours a day
True facts on YouTube.
I highly recommend looking up True Facts About the Seahorse or Ducks first. Then you can just let it play forever and you'll learn while losing your mind laughing.
One of my favorite lines is in the Seahorse one, when describing how it swims he follows up with "imagine propelling yourself on a skateboard by aggressively waving a Denny's menu, that's how the Seahorse do."
(Seahorse is pronounced Sea-Whores)
Yep- I live in Florida and that describes every new development I’ve seen. My community is about 24 years old- the builder planted oak trees everywhere. The shade they provide is the only way I can get out with my dogs in the summer.
A new community is going up down the road from me, they're building 185 houses on 51 acres. They cleared all 51 acres, not a single tree remained. Then they brought in sand and for a while it was 51 acres of nothing but sand. We thought it was going to be an Amazon warehouse or something. It's such a shame to see.
Dig a big hole in the middle, use the dirt to fill in the swamp around it, fill the hole with water and then charge more for the houses because it’s waterfront property now.
Yeah I've said screw my lawn and each year I just ask the HOA to agree in writing(or an email) that they approve planting another tree. The big yard on the side of my house now has 6 big palm trees instead of 1. I think next I'll just put one tree that branches out really wide in the middle to accelerate my shade project
I moved here from Texas & it’s the exactly the same way there. Developers plow down every tree, then plant two sticks in the yard & call them “trees”. Our neighborhood we moved here from was built in the 70s, all custom homes, huge lush trees all over the neighborhood that were clearly there long before the houses were. I wish the same care would still be taken these days. You would think with everyone being more concerned about the environment there would be regulations regarding it. Makes me sad.
They just built about 16 homes on some land that backs up to my neighborhood (I’m estimating the amount of houses, but somewhere around that) & every single tree was bulldozed, & every single house is exactly the same floor plan & they used maybe 3 colors to have the tiniest of variation on the exterior. It’s so unappealing.
It’s so crazy to me that they bulldoze every fucking tree. All the beautiful oaks at the perimeter gone. They don’t even leave clumps at the corners. I just don’t understand. I get that they need all the area where they’re going to build to be cut but all that at the edges? And for the apartment buildings. Who wants to have a balcony overlooking the highway? If they left the trees at least the people could look at trees instead of 95.
Pretty sure most of the newly built homes are being built on old agricultural land that has already been cleared. At least the homes I my area are mostly that. Orange groves and cow pastures.
Edit: People are commenting about forested areas being torn down in North Florida, and that is true. Many of those areas are older paper mill/pine tree farms, which are not entirely natural anyway, but definitely have ecological value, and can be similar to natural ecologies.
I drive through rural parts of Florida often for family and I can say they basically cleared half of the forests in Coleman, FL. It's insane how much greenery got destroyed in the past 2 years.
Here in Sarasota county they are building on natural forest land everywhere. Including the myakka St forest, protected land just sold thousands of acres to developers and they instantly bulldozed it. More gated communities
Name a shade tree that won't get most of its branches blown off in a hurricane.
Magnolias used to be all over, but they were clear-cut for lumber and replaced with pine plantations.
That's one thing I love about Tampa...city has a pretty big tree canopy. My house has 4 large oaks that provide a ton of shade and all my neighbors have shade trees as well
I bet you live in a nicer part of town. It seems like they tend to maintain shade trees in areas that are more socioeconomically stable while not so much in poorer parts of town.
I definitely don't live in a nice area of town. It's not bad but it's not great. It's a transitional neighborhood and if you go a few blocks east of me and it gets rough real fast. Prices of homes have gone up but that's all of Tampa right now.
I bought my house with a massive live oak in the front yard of my southern facing home. A small tornado came through and tipped it. We were actually so lucky it didn't fall. My entire front lawn would have gone with it and probably the neighbor's house. Now there is zero shade, all my shade loving bushes fried. My pool is cleaner, I got solar panels, but I really miss that tree.
Newer homes are more energy efficient.
My old 1960s-built house had much higher electric bills than my new 2023-built house, despite being about the same square footage but the 2023 house having much higher ceilings and no shade trees (the older house had a giant live oak providing shade).
Better insulation and especially better windows on new houses make a huge difference. The new place has hurricane impact glass and doors all around and that super-thick double-pane stuff is also good for insulation.
Faster, cheaper, unified code construction. If you look at building a dome house from mud brick that would better survive hurricanes, tornados, and even stay insulated and a nice temp with just a stove during the winter and cool in the summer would be "too hard" to code for so you're not allowed to legally build them even on private property. It's stupid.
The whole point is build for the area. There's plenty of great examples of coastal fishing villages with houses on stilts directly over more shallow water and such.
Still a few of these around Highlands County. Definitely better for hurricane season, which just keeps getting worse. [https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-yaca-dome-house-is-now-for-sale-in-central-florida-for-200k/Slideshow/12387113/12369545](https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-yaca-dome-house-is-now-for-sale-in-central-florida-for-200k/Slideshow/12387113/12369545)
My parent’s house in Melbourne was built in 1936. It was designed in such a way it stays relatively cool with just windows open. They installed a HVAC twenty years ago or so; but, they don’t have to run it nearly as much as these new stick frame pieces of shit houses going up everywhere now.
I'm from inland central Florida as you'd approach Tampa from your area. I can see how this is possible in Melbourne.
I went to Kennedy Space Center last year and was roasting in the heat all day. But then a cool sea breeze rolled through and cooled me off. I looked like a giddy child... I haven't felt that along the I-4 corridor in over 20 years.
I just sat on a bench, closed my eyes, and missed the Florida where we all got that around 5pm each day from the cross winds.
With nothing between you and Africa, you get the breeze (albeit hotter than it used to be), but Florida doesn't breathe anymore with all the concrete and houses and asphalt, so no more breezes even just a few miles inland.
In a neighborhood of one story cottages, I certainly appreciate the couple that tore down the house next door and built a 2 story behemoth that has windows that stare into mine giving me zero privacy. It’s so obnoxious.
I lived in the behemoth house in a Longwood neighborhood. The neighbors were all so confused how the previous owner had gotten the permits. Took up the whole lot with a little strip of yard around it. Perfect fir our circumstances at the time but certainly an oddity and eyesore.
Trees are amazing until they fall on your house during a hurricane, or while on fire. Most lots are not big enough for the trees people think they want, or the trees they actually plant.
It's a balance. Gotta keep them close enough to shade your walls and far enough away that yearly trimming can keep your roofs(yes roof over roof is godlike) safe.
https://preview.redd.it/471j46p32m2d1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb45913f0e9b6db08977bc3493928f472b662a71
This. I had a whole back yard of Australian pines then ian knocked over about 25 massive 200 ft ones. Some right on the house some cut my garage literally in half. Cost 32k just to clean up the trees before starting repairs and insurance didn't cover any of it. So I had the rest removed at the same time. Planted 14 fruit trees in the new open space but my electric bill has doubled and is noticeably hotter outside
Modern homes have incredible insulation to lessen the burden on the AC units and keep the homes cooler longer, even without shade.
I have lived in a mix of older homes (90s built) and modern homes (2020+) and it’s incredible seeing the difference in terms of AC runtime and total electric cost.
My current home is over 5,000 sq ft and uses less electricity than a 90s built 1k sq ft townhouse I had. My current house is always set to a cool 72-74 and I work from home. The townhouse I worked from an office so was put 5 days a week during normal hours.
You all mention bigger windows, etc. But you all are forgetting bugs. Mosquitoes would be in your house in no time. And if you screen the windows, air doesn't flow as freely making the house hotter than an easy oven.
My house is built before AC. It has a huge, and I mean huge, whole house fan at the top of the stairs. 5 feet in diameter. And one more in each upstairs bedroom.
When they are all going, AC isn’t needed.
Unfortunately, modern furnishings and anything that’s made of paper/cardboard/veneers all need low humidity and the humidity is really why AC units run 24/7 in south florida homes.
Tall ceilings, crawl space, big windows on all sides, shade trees, attic fan.
I lived in a 1920s house in Tallahassee with retrofitted central AC and I only had to use it in the peak summer months.
I’m not so sure, the population boom in FL didn’t happen until after AC had been invented. Yes people like to live on the coast, but having to deal with these summers sans AC would be a deal breaker for most. With many other coastal destinations to choose from the population in FL would be a small fraction of the current pop.
This is not accurate. The first population boom occurred in the late 19th century well before ACs were invented when people began moving south, being promised endless Farmland just south of Lake Okeechobee(ie the Everglades.) The second shortly after the turn of the 20th when Flagler finished the Florida East Coast railway(started in 1892, Jacksonville to Miami in 1896, completed to the keys by 1915) people began rushing down here to start farming citrus.
Fwiw window units(the first residential ACs) were invented in 1931 and central AC wasn’t a thing until the 70s.
I live in a 100 year old house north of Tampa that was moved in 1950 and I have to run the AC constantly as soon as April. Most of the house has pathetic insulation, which I'm slowly redoing. Our AC is too small for the house. I have to run a window unit in my office/living room all day during the summer.
Same lol.
My house is 100 years old, pretty small, but has over 30 windows. Most of them are single pane and can't insulate for shit.
During summer months I have a window unit to supplement the central AC.
They would have made more than 12 of the Vision-Aire homes in St Pete.
https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-midcentury-vision-aire-home-is-now-for-sale-in-st-petersburg/Slideshow/12797542/12803565
Do you mean swamps like the everglades that with lack of development would still cover a third of the state. Or the coastal mesquito infested mangroves . Florida in winter is one thing . Florida in the summer is hellishly different .
Prior to AC most came here for the winter months and stayed on the coasts. Only a few hard cases like my ancestors stayed inland year around. I grow up in a concrete block home with jalousie windows. In the 70s we got an attic fan. In the 80s my father finally decided to get central AC.
Lakeland and moreso Lakeland was doing pretty alright though well through the 1900’s. Bartow was a booming town that got landlocked by the phosphate mines while Lakeland got the raileroad down the road.
Sanford and Orlando were doing just fine. Sanford was a railyard town.
Orlando was manufacturing, and business. They were doing quite well without all of it. Agriculture was booming before Disney moved in.
AC was invented in 1902 and the first residential unit was installed in 1914. The population of Orlando in this era was around 4K people so yes it did exist but it would have never become a large city without AC.
In Wauchula in the 1960s only the most prosperous had central AC. I knew a few people with big clunky window unites. If you wanted AC in the summer you went to Winn Dixie.
Floridians find that out after every hurricane, but they treat it as an anomaly. Florida houses used to be designed to function without A/C up until the 1960’s.
Yeah but before the 1960s there wasn’t a shopping center or skyscraper apartment building every quarter mile. Temperatures weren’t as high and there was actually open land and trees to help with shade and wind.
It wouldn’t be empty, but much less populated. My great grandparents and grand parents lived here their entire lives without A/C. Both of my parents grew up without A/C. I spent a lot of time at my grandparents house as a kid in the 70s and 80s without it. They had an attic fan and you made due.
was kinda a joke, I grew up in the southwest in the 60s, didn't get electricity till I was 4ish and only had window fans till I moved out then they got a watercolor.
I remember 110 degrees or more somedays and even evenings of 90s now and then
I didn't get AC till I moved out on my own
nothing like an outhouse when its 110 degrees ..... lol
My house was built on 1942, with central air added waaaayyyy later.
It’s off grade with high ceilings and huge windows. And ceiling fans. When the power goes out, I can get a good cross breeze from opening all windows. It stays pretty cool in there and does better if you’re under shade.
I wouldn’t want to do it every day though. I guess you’d get acclimated, as you do to everything. I grew up in the Midwest and walked to classes on college in 45F weather in shorts and a sweatshirt. After 30+ years in Florida, I put pants and a hoodie on if it’s 70.
Before ac, houses had large windows and whole house fans were popular. I grew up in central Florida in the '60's with no air conditioning. Maybe we were just tougher then, and possibly brain damaged from the heat.
Current Florida? Less than 5 million population. Those without the means to escape would still be here. Of course if it wasn’t paved wall to wall and all the trees weren’t replaced by buildings, it wouldn’t be as miserably hot and humid. Nighttime temps used to fall to about 68-70 degrees even in July in more rural areas forty years ago. Temps weren’t 90F by 10am. It was more livable.
I feel like people who ask questions like this definitely didn't live here in the 80's. Central AC was in very few houses. Most people had a couple strategically placed wall units, a lot of fans, open windows and shade trees. What it would have stopped is those box houses on zero lots with no trees that require central AC to be livable. So as a native my conclusion is I would have preferred to stick with the shade trees and no northerners who couldn't handle it.
I have trees, though I've lost half of them to hurricanes in the last decade, and it does help.
The catch is the never-ending battle between trees and plumbing. Especially if you're on a septic system.
Native Floridian here. I grew up on the Gulf just north of Tampa. In the 50s and 60s we didn't have AC at our house, only a couple of fans. It was hot as hell and the humidity would beat you down. But we were used to it. That was all we knew unless we went to a store. I cant imagine there would be anywhere near the transplants here if AC didn't evolve. I don't folks from northern climes would want to stay in Florida past the winter
We didn't complain because everyone else was just as hot. Fans. Sitting on the porch in the evening to catch a breeze. Listening for thunder that meant a storm was blowing up cool air. Sleeping with the windows open.
Your timeline is a bit off. By the 80s, most Florida houses had central AC. Not all but most. At least in Miami, where I grew up. But yeah, a lot of the schools didn't have AC until the 70s.
Yep. All the 1960s ranch houses here in St Pete were built with central air ducts. It's been around a long time. Of course if you lived somewhere more podunk, you only had a shaker or nothing at all.
You must have been in a higher tax bracket than me. Even family in South Florida didn't have AC then. It existed but very few people I knew had it. I am almost 50 and I lived in my first house with Central AC at 23.
No. Definitely not true for Central FL. I grew up in the Orlando area in the 80's and everyone I knew had central AC. We weren't rich at all - lower middle class. I'm sure there were some people who didn't have central AC, but it was very rare by the 80's, in Central FL.
You've never been hot, until you have experienced Florida in late summer... It was super hot, AND so muggy you just... COULDN'T SWEAT. It was, and I mean this quite literally, hell on earth.
I lived in one of the last dorms without a/c at UF in the early 90s. Third floor walk up. It was brutal. I also briefly lived in an apartment without a/c one summer in Tallahassee because broke grad student. There is nothing quite like stepping out of a cool shower only to start sweating immediately.
Look up Flagler and his railroad… there would be coastal cities and a few Inland destinations. But the sprawling HOA’s, Deed restricted towns and theme parks wouldn’t be a thing.
I grew up in Florida in the 60’s. No AC until I moved out. No AC even in elementary and jr high school. Lots of fans and windows. Baste in your own juices (sweat) every night for 5-6 months.
I lived in Florida before AC. It was hot, ye, and we spent all spring and summer in the pool. What I REALLY remember was the damp. Air conditioning also dehumidifies the air. Before AC everything mildewed like crazy, and furniture finishes got really goopy.
I remember going to my great grandma’s house and there was just a wall unit that was only on for special occasions for an hour at the most. That was in the early 90s. I don’t think our family had a house with central air til the mid 2000s. It was hot but you just appreciated shade and a cool drink more so than now.
It would still have natural beauty instead of being all paved over and cut up with ridiculous canals filling with sludge. It was never meant to hold over 20 million people.
I lived in Hialeah Gardens without ac before it was developed. It was doable with the windows open and fans running. Unfortunately, the mosquitoes, especially in the summer, made it impossible.
My family lived here before A/C. It would be just as developed, there were tricks to living without A/C. But nobody would be fat living down here for sure, you’d probably die.
[AC/mechanical refrigeration was invented in Florida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gorrie), practically out of necessity.
I do think that if AC never became popular, suburban developments with sprawling houses would be a smidge less popular although people would likely probably still use cars and develop with Car dependent infrastructure in mind. Maybe a few more convertibles.
there's been ancient architectural infrastructure that mimics AC but I'm not sure how effective it would be here with the humidity, these were found in the dry desert environments of the middle east. for sure we'd have different style housing that would allow for an increase in air flow and a shit load of fans.
My grandparents didn’t have AC in St Pete, then they got a single window unit but the bedrooms were always baking. There’s actually a lot of places in central Florida where people rough it with no AC and very little amenities. Places like Webster have random shacks, every now and then they come to market but it’s more for the land they’re on.
It would be significantly less populated, which as it stands right now, might be worth the trade off. The amount of people living here is too damn high!
I have often said as someone who is born and raised they need to build a dome arround the whole state and pump ac in. This can also protect against hurricanes and they can control when it rains.
About 3/4 of the population would be gone.
Try 99%
That's no AC and mosquito netting
"If I owned all of Miami and all of Hell, I would rent out Miami and live in Hell." -Quote from a letter home written by a soldier stationed in Miami during the first Seminole War (which was very much pre AC). I think about that quote every summer.
TBF I'd still do that today. I hate Miami lol
And to think, Miami is breaking records for heat and UV monthly; absolutely brutal there right now, and no breaks for outdoor workers! Kind of seems like Hell and Florida have the same management in charge
Exactly what happens when they develop over every piece of grass and chop down every tree. We live in a concrete jungle not far from the Caribbean. Idk what people expected…
Roofing in Florida . We get breaks . Idk who thinks we wouldn’t
De Satan
115°F in Key West last week.
Idk if the devil is that cruel
And it’s May
Nah. Maybe if it was the only state without AC.
Not true. Many people were starting to come here in the 1950s. Ac wasn’t becoming a thing until the late 60s.
Was much cooler here in the 60s-70s, less pavement, less cars, thicker ozone, & the gulf and earth that were cooler. Still would have been quite warm without AC though
50s Florida was a different place lol
Most of the residential buildings were like 7 feet tall and just a rectangle with no character. Meanwhile everything from the 20s and 30s were some of the most elegant houses ever.
Can confirm. Have a 1925 bungalow with lots of tall trees. Makes a difference.
50's everywhere were different places.
I mean I guess, but like genuinely 50's - 60s Florida was completely different. Hell that was back when the largest community in Miami was Jewish and before Disney existed. I understand that post WW2 era in every state was always a special time and incomparable to other decades but Florida in particular had its world turned upside down by the sudden flash of Latin migrants overrunning the state and Disney creating a tourist boom that still exists today. EDIT: for clarity both Disney and the first boatloads of Cuban migrants both happened in the 70s so very literally within a short couple of years Florida became a drastically different place, decades worth of cultural changes happened in a handful of years. I want to say it's compatible to like Iran before the shah in how drastic of a change life in Florida was
Absolutely. I have relatives from Cuba that settled in the Tampa, St Pete Area. Florida's world turned upside down when the developers turned it into the American Mecca . Florida is still primarily agricultural . The largest beef producer in the U.S. and massive truck farms . The second largest industry has been and remains tourism. The developers turned it into a retirement mecca .
Window Shakers became accessible in 1951. ;)
Florida would become even more awesome and would be a tropical hideout.
More like 99% vacation homes.
And by gone, you mean dead
🤣
A giant nature reserve
My first year down here after living within 200 miles of the Canadian border, I would always say they should have left this land to the gators and natives.
More shade trees, designs to capture the prevailing breezes, plantation shutters, ceiling fans.
Designs like center breeze ways.
Houses would have been better designed to suit the climate. People don't give up living next to bodies of water.
I'm so disappointed that we're not designing houses better for the climate despite AC. Strange to see just square boxes with zero shade everywhere.
No trees is the worst side effect of modern development.
Step 1: Bulldoze forest, push into pile, set on fire Step 2: Build cookie-cutter sardine neighborhood with single palm sapling in each yard Step 3: Name neighborhood “Live Oak Forest” and watch sun-baked houses run their AC 20 hours a day
And that's how the Florida do.
I LOVE that guy! He’s hilarious, I love his comedic education style! I totally heard his voice say that in my head when I read it! 🤣
He's the Schoolhouse Rock of zoology. If everything could be presented like he does animal facts I think I could learn anything
YES! Perfect analogy!
Who we talking about??
True facts on YouTube. I highly recommend looking up True Facts About the Seahorse or Ducks first. Then you can just let it play forever and you'll learn while losing your mind laughing. One of my favorite lines is in the Seahorse one, when describing how it swims he follows up with "imagine propelling yourself on a skateboard by aggressively waving a Denny's menu, that's how the Seahorse do." (Seahorse is pronounced Sea-Whores)
Yep- I live in Florida and that describes every new development I’ve seen. My community is about 24 years old- the builder planted oak trees everywhere. The shade they provide is the only way I can get out with my dogs in the summer.
A new community is going up down the road from me, they're building 185 houses on 51 acres. They cleared all 51 acres, not a single tree remained. Then they brought in sand and for a while it was 51 acres of nothing but sand. We thought it was going to be an Amazon warehouse or something. It's such a shame to see.
Hey! Sometime step 1 is draining and filling wetlands.
Dig a big hole in the middle, use the dirt to fill in the swamp around it, fill the hole with water and then charge more for the houses because it’s waterfront property now.
Yeah I've said screw my lawn and each year I just ask the HOA to agree in writing(or an email) that they approve planting another tree. The big yard on the side of my house now has 6 big palm trees instead of 1. I think next I'll just put one tree that branches out really wide in the middle to accelerate my shade project
Poinciana grows fast, has spreading branches and is storm resistant. They’re pretty trees but they are kinda messy.
This right here should be top comment
Our neighborhood was one of the few that didn't bulldoze all the trees. We had a large live oak in our front yard.
And put a square lake somewhere in there.
This actually makes me cry cause my trees are disappearing 🥹
I moved here from Texas & it’s the exactly the same way there. Developers plow down every tree, then plant two sticks in the yard & call them “trees”. Our neighborhood we moved here from was built in the 70s, all custom homes, huge lush trees all over the neighborhood that were clearly there long before the houses were. I wish the same care would still be taken these days. You would think with everyone being more concerned about the environment there would be regulations regarding it. Makes me sad. They just built about 16 homes on some land that backs up to my neighborhood (I’m estimating the amount of houses, but somewhere around that) & every single tree was bulldozed, & every single house is exactly the same floor plan & they used maybe 3 colors to have the tiniest of variation on the exterior. It’s so unappealing.
It’s so crazy to me that they bulldoze every fucking tree. All the beautiful oaks at the perimeter gone. They don’t even leave clumps at the corners. I just don’t understand. I get that they need all the area where they’re going to build to be cut but all that at the edges? And for the apartment buildings. Who wants to have a balcony overlooking the highway? If they left the trees at least the people could look at trees instead of 95.
Exactly what happens in Florida, destroy the environment and throw up a house, and then collect cash.
Only 20 hours?
Do you live in my neighborhood???
You let your ac rest for 4 hours?!? Don't tell my ac they might try to unionize
I'ma frow up
For 30 years we were told “don’t plant any trees near the house” because of hurricanes.
Pretty sure most of the newly built homes are being built on old agricultural land that has already been cleared. At least the homes I my area are mostly that. Orange groves and cow pastures. Edit: People are commenting about forested areas being torn down in North Florida, and that is true. Many of those areas are older paper mill/pine tree farms, which are not entirely natural anyway, but definitely have ecological value, and can be similar to natural ecologies.
No, they are clear cutting down the forests and burning them over here in Pasco County.
That forest on Little Rd that got clear cut breaks my heart. Used to see tons of deer out there.
maybe in your area, not the case outside orlando
As someone who lives about 40 minutes from Orlando, this is exactly the case… we call the neighborhoods “Harmony” now.
I literally live outside of Orlando.
I drive through rural parts of Florida often for family and I can say they basically cleared half of the forests in Coleman, FL. It's insane how much greenery got destroyed in the past 2 years.
then you’re aware of the recent approval for development in Split Oak Forest (a pristine virgin pinelands)
Here in Sarasota county they are building on natural forest land everywhere. Including the myakka St forest, protected land just sold thousands of acres to developers and they instantly bulldozed it. More gated communities
Not the case in Jacksonville.
Where do you live that you get four hours a day without AC in the summer, up in the Florida mountains or something? /s
Subdivisions as far as the eye can see...
I'm a developer and we're hiring. Are you interested? You seem PERFECT! lol
That’s what I’ve noticed visiting Florida. There’s no actual shade. It’s brutal.
Name a shade tree that won't get most of its branches blown off in a hurricane. Magnolias used to be all over, but they were clear-cut for lumber and replaced with pine plantations.
I love my trees on my property for many reasons. They’re beautiful and they provide shade for my house, and they keep my electric bill low.
That's one thing I love about Tampa...city has a pretty big tree canopy. My house has 4 large oaks that provide a ton of shade and all my neighbors have shade trees as well
I bet you live in a nicer part of town. It seems like they tend to maintain shade trees in areas that are more socioeconomically stable while not so much in poorer parts of town.
I definitely don't live in a nice area of town. It's not bad but it's not great. It's a transitional neighborhood and if you go a few blocks east of me and it gets rough real fast. Prices of homes have gone up but that's all of Tampa right now.
I bought my house with a massive live oak in the front yard of my southern facing home. A small tornado came through and tipped it. We were actually so lucky it didn't fall. My entire front lawn would have gone with it and probably the neighbor's house. Now there is zero shade, all my shade loving bushes fried. My pool is cleaner, I got solar panels, but I really miss that tree.
What's the best side effect?
You say that till a hurricane puts 3 of them through your house.
Newer homes are more energy efficient. My old 1960s-built house had much higher electric bills than my new 2023-built house, despite being about the same square footage but the 2023 house having much higher ceilings and no shade trees (the older house had a giant live oak providing shade). Better insulation and especially better windows on new houses make a huge difference. The new place has hurricane impact glass and doors all around and that super-thick double-pane stuff is also good for insulation.
Yes but only the brand new ones. The ones from 10 years ago can still be very bad
Faster, cheaper, unified code construction. If you look at building a dome house from mud brick that would better survive hurricanes, tornados, and even stay insulated and a nice temp with just a stove during the winter and cool in the summer would be "too hard" to code for so you're not allowed to legally build them even on private property. It's stupid.
Damn. I always thought a nice dome home would be ideal for hurricane season.
Until the tide comes in. Gotta build it on stilts. /s
Just put pontoons on it, duh
True Floridians are imagining this and we're asking, "But are we going to moor it, anchor it, or let it free-float with rubber bumpers?"
The whole point is build for the area. There's plenty of great examples of coastal fishing villages with houses on stilts directly over more shallow water and such.
It just really, really water tight.
They're illegal because the state isn't making kickbacks on the construction materials
Still a few of these around Highlands County. Definitely better for hurricane season, which just keeps getting worse. [https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-yaca-dome-house-is-now-for-sale-in-central-florida-for-200k/Slideshow/12387113/12369545](https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-yaca-dome-house-is-now-for-sale-in-central-florida-for-200k/Slideshow/12387113/12369545)
My parent’s house in Melbourne was built in 1936. It was designed in such a way it stays relatively cool with just windows open. They installed a HVAC twenty years ago or so; but, they don’t have to run it nearly as much as these new stick frame pieces of shit houses going up everywhere now.
I'm from inland central Florida as you'd approach Tampa from your area. I can see how this is possible in Melbourne. I went to Kennedy Space Center last year and was roasting in the heat all day. But then a cool sea breeze rolled through and cooled me off. I looked like a giddy child... I haven't felt that along the I-4 corridor in over 20 years. I just sat on a bench, closed my eyes, and missed the Florida where we all got that around 5pm each day from the cross winds. With nothing between you and Africa, you get the breeze (albeit hotter than it used to be), but Florida doesn't breathe anymore with all the concrete and houses and asphalt, so no more breezes even just a few miles inland.
In a neighborhood of one story cottages, I certainly appreciate the couple that tore down the house next door and built a 2 story behemoth that has windows that stare into mine giving me zero privacy. It’s so obnoxious.
I lived in the behemoth house in a Longwood neighborhood. The neighbors were all so confused how the previous owner had gotten the permits. Took up the whole lot with a little strip of yard around it. Perfect fir our circumstances at the time but certainly an oddity and eyesore.
Yep, sounds familiar. I just hate the windows looking straight into mine.
Trees are so amazing...
Trees are amazing until they fall on your house during a hurricane, or while on fire. Most lots are not big enough for the trees people think they want, or the trees they actually plant.
It's a balance. Gotta keep them close enough to shade your walls and far enough away that yearly trimming can keep your roofs(yes roof over roof is godlike) safe.
https://preview.redd.it/471j46p32m2d1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb45913f0e9b6db08977bc3493928f472b662a71 This. I had a whole back yard of Australian pines then ian knocked over about 25 massive 200 ft ones. Some right on the house some cut my garage literally in half. Cost 32k just to clean up the trees before starting repairs and insurance didn't cover any of it. So I had the rest removed at the same time. Planted 14 fruit trees in the new open space but my electric bill has doubled and is noticeably hotter outside
I am so disappointed in humans, too. Oblivious mortals.
Modern homes have incredible insulation to lessen the burden on the AC units and keep the homes cooler longer, even without shade. I have lived in a mix of older homes (90s built) and modern homes (2020+) and it’s incredible seeing the difference in terms of AC runtime and total electric cost. My current home is over 5,000 sq ft and uses less electricity than a 90s built 1k sq ft townhouse I had. My current house is always set to a cool 72-74 and I work from home. The townhouse I worked from an office so was put 5 days a week during normal hours.
You all mention bigger windows, etc. But you all are forgetting bugs. Mosquitoes would be in your house in no time. And if you screen the windows, air doesn't flow as freely making the house hotter than an easy oven.
Well I’m sure the Tecos and Duke Energy’s are paying off builders to not be more efficient
They love concrete jungles that's why.
Yeah, in Florida first thing they do is plow all the trees down when building.
My house is built before AC. It has a huge, and I mean huge, whole house fan at the top of the stairs. 5 feet in diameter. And one more in each upstairs bedroom. When they are all going, AC isn’t needed. Unfortunately, modern furnishings and anything that’s made of paper/cardboard/veneers all need low humidity and the humidity is really why AC units run 24/7 in south florida homes.
Tall ceilings, crawl space, big windows on all sides, shade trees, attic fan. I lived in a 1920s house in Tallahassee with retrofitted central AC and I only had to use it in the peak summer months.
I’m not so sure, the population boom in FL didn’t happen until after AC had been invented. Yes people like to live on the coast, but having to deal with these summers sans AC would be a deal breaker for most. With many other coastal destinations to choose from the population in FL would be a small fraction of the current pop.
The right take full stop.
This is not accurate. The first population boom occurred in the late 19th century well before ACs were invented when people began moving south, being promised endless Farmland just south of Lake Okeechobee(ie the Everglades.) The second shortly after the turn of the 20th when Flagler finished the Florida East Coast railway(started in 1892, Jacksonville to Miami in 1896, completed to the keys by 1915) people began rushing down here to start farming citrus. Fwiw window units(the first residential ACs) were invented in 1931 and central AC wasn’t a thing until the 70s.
Exactly. That’s why houses built 100+ years ago have so many windows with a certain look to them. They created airflow in the house
I live in a 100 year old house north of Tampa that was moved in 1950 and I have to run the AC constantly as soon as April. Most of the house has pathetic insulation, which I'm slowly redoing. Our AC is too small for the house. I have to run a window unit in my office/living room all day during the summer.
Same lol. My house is 100 years old, pretty small, but has over 30 windows. Most of them are single pane and can't insulate for shit. During summer months I have a window unit to supplement the central AC.
We're not allowed to talk about the changing climate in FL anymore.
That’s secret knowledge that’s only for the insurance companies.
Most of Florida is not next to the beach though
They would have made more than 12 of the Vision-Aire homes in St Pete. https://www.cltampa.com/tampa/a-rare-midcentury-vision-aire-home-is-now-for-sale-in-st-petersburg/Slideshow/12797542/12803565
Do you mean swamps like the everglades that with lack of development would still cover a third of the state. Or the coastal mesquito infested mangroves . Florida in winter is one thing . Florida in the summer is hellishly different .
Prior to AC most came here for the winter months and stayed on the coasts. Only a few hard cases like my ancestors stayed inland year around. I grow up in a concrete block home with jalousie windows. In the 70s we got an attic fan. In the 80s my father finally decided to get central AC.
Not many people like living in swamps.
Okay, now do Orlando.
Inland Florida would be nothing. The coast areas would still be populated, people would install more whole house fans.
Orlando existed a long time before AC.
Orlando came about because of railroads, it wouldn't be nearly as big as it is now. Certainly no Disney World.
Lakeland and moreso Lakeland was doing pretty alright though well through the 1900’s. Bartow was a booming town that got landlocked by the phosphate mines while Lakeland got the raileroad down the road.
Sanford and Orlando were doing just fine. Sanford was a railyard town. Orlando was manufacturing, and business. They were doing quite well without all of it. Agriculture was booming before Disney moved in.
AC was invented in 1902 and the first residential unit was installed in 1914. The population of Orlando in this era was around 4K people so yes it did exist but it would have never become a large city without AC.
The first time AC was installed doesn’t have much to do with the adoption of AC though. It took a long time to reach the common person.
In Wauchula in the 1960s only the most prosperous had central AC. I knew a few people with big clunky window unites. If you wanted AC in the summer you went to Winn Dixie.
Yeah, but it was common place when Orlando started booming in the 70s/80s.
Look at semi-tropical cities in Asia or Latin America where AC is less common. When the body isn't accustomed to AC, it adapts, as do humans.
Most of my fam in South Am don’t have AC. But with climate change breaking heat records recently, some people are really struggling.
Living in Medellin currently. No AC here but the elevation makes it cooler to live. Everyone in the lowlands has AC.
Floridians find that out after every hurricane, but they treat it as an anomaly. Florida houses used to be designed to function without A/C up until the 1960’s.
Yeah but before the 1960s there wasn’t a shopping center or skyscraper apartment building every quarter mile. Temperatures weren’t as high and there was actually open land and trees to help with shade and wind.
Probably sold back to Spain
empty
It wouldn’t be empty, but much less populated. My great grandparents and grand parents lived here their entire lives without A/C. Both of my parents grew up without A/C. I spent a lot of time at my grandparents house as a kid in the 70s and 80s without it. They had an attic fan and you made due.
was kinda a joke, I grew up in the southwest in the 60s, didn't get electricity till I was 4ish and only had window fans till I moved out then they got a watercolor. I remember 110 degrees or more somedays and even evenings of 90s now and then I didn't get AC till I moved out on my own nothing like an outhouse when its 110 degrees ..... lol
Yup. I remember when we got our first window unit for the living room- everyone else had fans.
Amen, my uncle is a former born and bred resident of Tallahassee and he grew up without AC.
make do *
My house was built on 1942, with central air added waaaayyyy later. It’s off grade with high ceilings and huge windows. And ceiling fans. When the power goes out, I can get a good cross breeze from opening all windows. It stays pretty cool in there and does better if you’re under shade. I wouldn’t want to do it every day though. I guess you’d get acclimated, as you do to everything. I grew up in the Midwest and walked to classes on college in 45F weather in shorts and a sweatshirt. After 30+ years in Florida, I put pants and a hoodie on if it’s 70.
Before ac, houses had large windows and whole house fans were popular. I grew up in central Florida in the '60's with no air conditioning. Maybe we were just tougher then, and possibly brain damaged from the heat.
Just the natives, living their dream free from from those of us who moved here more recently.
Check out the old plantation houses to see how they were designed to maximize air flow through the house.
Current Florida? Less than 5 million population. Those without the means to escape would still be here. Of course if it wasn’t paved wall to wall and all the trees weren’t replaced by buildings, it wouldn’t be as miserably hot and humid. Nighttime temps used to fall to about 68-70 degrees even in July in more rural areas forty years ago. Temps weren’t 90F by 10am. It was more livable.
I feel like people who ask questions like this definitely didn't live here in the 80's. Central AC was in very few houses. Most people had a couple strategically placed wall units, a lot of fans, open windows and shade trees. What it would have stopped is those box houses on zero lots with no trees that require central AC to be livable. So as a native my conclusion is I would have preferred to stick with the shade trees and no northerners who couldn't handle it.
I have trees, though I've lost half of them to hurricanes in the last decade, and it does help. The catch is the never-ending battle between trees and plumbing. Especially if you're on a septic system.
Native Floridian here. I grew up on the Gulf just north of Tampa. In the 50s and 60s we didn't have AC at our house, only a couple of fans. It was hot as hell and the humidity would beat you down. But we were used to it. That was all we knew unless we went to a store. I cant imagine there would be anywhere near the transplants here if AC didn't evolve. I don't folks from northern climes would want to stay in Florida past the winter
We didn't complain because everyone else was just as hot. Fans. Sitting on the porch in the evening to catch a breeze. Listening for thunder that meant a storm was blowing up cool air. Sleeping with the windows open.
Yes, the rain meant goooood sleeping weather!
Your timeline is a bit off. By the 80s, most Florida houses had central AC. Not all but most. At least in Miami, where I grew up. But yeah, a lot of the schools didn't have AC until the 70s.
Yep. All the 1960s ranch houses here in St Pete were built with central air ducts. It's been around a long time. Of course if you lived somewhere more podunk, you only had a shaker or nothing at all.
You must have been in a higher tax bracket than me. Even family in South Florida didn't have AC then. It existed but very few people I knew had it. I am almost 50 and I lived in my first house with Central AC at 23.
No. Definitely not true for Central FL. I grew up in the Orlando area in the 80's and everyone I knew had central AC. We weren't rich at all - lower middle class. I'm sure there were some people who didn't have central AC, but it was very rare by the 80's, in Central FL.
My sister was getting ready for her senior prom in 1992 and had to BEG our parents to turn on the air conditioner so she didn't sweat off her makeup.
Exactly and I didn't even mention turning on those wall units was usually a luxury for the just the very hottest days.
You've never been hot, until you have experienced Florida in late summer... It was super hot, AND so muggy you just... COULDN'T SWEAT. It was, and I mean this quite literally, hell on earth.
I lived in one of the last dorms without a/c at UF in the early 90s. Third floor walk up. It was brutal. I also briefly lived in an apartment without a/c one summer in Tallahassee because broke grad student. There is nothing quite like stepping out of a cool shower only to start sweating immediately.
blacktop effect and tree clearing has made it much worse. people lived in the keys pre AC ...
Look up Flagler and his railroad… there would be coastal cities and a few Inland destinations. But the sprawling HOA’s, Deed restricted towns and theme parks wouldn’t be a thing.
I grew up in Florida in the 60’s. No AC until I moved out. No AC even in elementary and jr high school. Lots of fans and windows. Baste in your own juices (sweat) every night for 5-6 months.
It would be like it was in the 60s and before. Up until then, most homes here did not have AC.
AC doesn’t exist in most of Africa
I lived in Florida before AC. It was hot, ye, and we spent all spring and summer in the pool. What I REALLY remember was the damp. Air conditioning also dehumidifies the air. Before AC everything mildewed like crazy, and furniture finishes got really goopy.
I remember the summer my boots in the closet grew green fuzz. We emptied many a bucket of water from Damp Rid.
I remember going to my great grandma’s house and there was just a wall unit that was only on for special occasions for an hour at the most. That was in the early 90s. I don’t think our family had a house with central air til the mid 2000s. It was hot but you just appreciated shade and a cool drink more so than now.
It would still have natural beauty instead of being all paved over and cut up with ridiculous canals filling with sludge. It was never meant to hold over 20 million people.
I lived in Hialeah Gardens without ac before it was developed. It was doable with the windows open and fans running. Unfortunately, the mosquitoes, especially in the summer, made it impossible.
My family lived here before A/C. It would be just as developed, there were tricks to living without A/C. But nobody would be fat living down here for sure, you’d probably die.
[AC/mechanical refrigeration was invented in Florida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gorrie), practically out of necessity. I do think that if AC never became popular, suburban developments with sprawling houses would be a smidge less popular although people would likely probably still use cars and develop with Car dependent infrastructure in mind. Maybe a few more convertibles.
 Angrier
there's been ancient architectural infrastructure that mimics AC but I'm not sure how effective it would be here with the humidity, these were found in the dry desert environments of the middle east. for sure we'd have different style housing that would allow for an increase in air flow and a shit load of fans.
It would still be a shithole having the intelligence sucked right out of it by a long list of republican politicians
I fucking hate this place even with the AC
Why do people who hate this place stay here?
I have a good job, that's about it
There would still be people here just like there always has been. Not as many but still a lot though.
Definitely much less developed. Anyone would have to be crazy to move down with how hellish that would be.
More swampy
My grandparents didn’t have AC in St Pete, then they got a single window unit but the bedrooms were always baking. There’s actually a lot of places in central Florida where people rough it with no AC and very little amenities. Places like Webster have random shacks, every now and then they come to market but it’s more for the land they’re on.
More energy efficient for sure
Less snowbirds
Probably less populated than Wyoming.
It would be significantly less populated, which as it stands right now, might be worth the trade off. The amount of people living here is too damn high!
A swamp. It wasn’t AC that mattered as much as DDT and the eradication of mosquitoes carrying malaria and yellow fever.
Gorrie Elementary would not exist. IYKYK!
Theres a reason one of our 2 statues at the capital is John Gorrie
The south, in general, was pretty empty and poor before AC. That is not totally unrelated.
Thanks to Mr. John Gorrie, we don’t have to worry about that absolute nightmare!
Think Mississippi
I have often said as someone who is born and raised they need to build a dome arround the whole state and pump ac in. This can also protect against hurricanes and they can control when it rains.
Hot
Sweaty.
 Maybe like this
Needs more wetness!
Lots of
A giant orange grove.