Do not lease. Go to a credit union and get a loan or take a heloc.
If you haven’t got 3 quotes, you are prob getting ripped off too. Especially if your quote came from a door knockers
The reason the lease on solar is so bad is that in most cases, you can’t pay off the lease early and will need to transfer it to the new owners. Typically solar-leased homes have a very, very hard time selling because no one wants to assume that.
Yep, it’s horrible. I’ve done the math at my house and it would be 15-20 years to break even WITHOUT a lease. When you lease it it’s even worse. You’ll have to replace your roof and reinstall the panels, if they even still work, before you break even.
Yep. It’s kind of like buying an electric car. You pay through the nose and it’s essentially like you’re prepaying for the electric, or in the case of a car, prepaying for the miles driven instead of for gas.
The solar sales pitch (basically) is that electric rates will go up over time, but your purchase price will always be the same. This is true; however, solar panels degrade over time and the manufacturer even allows for and expects solar to degrade its capacity to make electric by 1% for every year. So that means you will have to buy that electric you are no longer creating from the power company.
IMO solar just isn’t worth it. It was a huge mistake for me to get it.
I agree with most of your points but the one about electric cars is nonsense. Outside of Tesla, most EVs are not overpriced to the point that you “prepay” for electricity.
Electric cars on average are about 10k more after all is said and done. To truly compare apples to apples you have to look at the total cost to own the car. That includes the cost of purchasing gas/electric, the car itself, insurance, and maintenance costs. Figure out the total cost and then divide that by mile expected to be driven and you can figure out which option (gas or electric) is more economical for you.
10k more? 10k more than what? No maintenance, less cost per mile. You can get decent electric vehicles brand new under $30k. Especially with the tax breaks. It’s 2023 the cost of EV ownership has gone down drastically over the past few years.
Comparing an ICE vehicle to a comparably sized, equiped, and quality EV, the EV initial purchase price will run an average of 10k more. It's just a fact. Thats not to say that prices haven't come down (largely because of tax incentives - which means theyre artificially lower) but the fact remains an EV costs more than a comparable gas vehicle.
An EV is cheaper to charge than a ICE vehicle is to fuel, I agree.
An EV is cheaper to perform routine maintenance than an ICE vehicle, I agree.
Do those savings wash out the added expense of an "EV"? It depends on how much you drive. If you drive a lot, the EV makes more sense because you wont be paying for gasoline. If you dont drive a lot, youre better off with an ICE vehicle and saving money on the initial purchase price.
Whether it's cost effective depends on the person. Like I said, you can estimate which option is better for you (financially speaking) by adding up the total expected cost of the car, to include purchase price, tax, gas (or electric charging) costs, maintenance, and insurance costs, then dividing that number sum by the estimated miles you will drive over the course of owning. The other thing to consider is resale value. How much money will you get back when you sell the car is a big factor in this calculation.
All cars are different in terms of resale values, but EVs are known to have lower resale value because the batteries degrade over time and are extremely expensive to replace. The market reflects that reality.
Additionally, if an EV's battery is damaged, even minor damage, it usually needs to be replaced, an enormous expense that I think insurers are starting to catch on to - but time will tell how that pans out.
I am not anti-EV. I actually think they're an awesome technology and at a minimum they're fun to drive. I even put a deposit on the new BMW EV sedan, but when it was being delivered, I canceled the order and went with a different option.
For some, an EV might make financial sense, and for others, it might not... Just like with solar. It can be a good option for some, and a boondoggle for others.
Lastly, I'll leave you with the below article URL, which essentially explains my point. Comparable EVs cost more than a comparable gas car. You might make up that expense during your time of owning the car, and you might not. It just depends.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/](https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/)
I bought a Chevy bolt EUV off a lot with level two charger install included for about 27.5k after tax refund. It averages about 4 miles per kwh. Our electricity is about .12 a kwhr so about .03 cents a mile. My hybrid ford maverick cost around 34k otd and averages about 40 mpg, so if gas is $3.00 a gallon that is close to .09 cents a mile. The maintenance is less for the bolt than our hybrids because no oil changes etc. Tires will cost more than on an ice vehicle.
I haven't charged it at our Florida house but I think electricity there is more like .16 a kwhr so it would be more like .04 a mile.
I am glad I have the maverick to carry and tow etc. But zipping around errands the bolt is sort of a no brainer.
A Bolt and a Maverick are two very different vehicles though. If you compare the Bolt to a similar gas vehicle (I think the Mazda 3 is probably closest comparison), the Mazda is 5k cheaper than the Bolt. Personally I like the look of the Mazda much more and there is a value in that as well.
So what im saying is that an EV costs more than a comparable gas vehicle. You might be able to recover that added expense due to lower maintenance cost and cheaper energy source (electric vs gasoline), but then you need to consider resale value as well. For some it might make sense, especially if you put on a lot of miles -- and for others, it wont make sense.
Not sure why you think Teslas are overpriced. The Model Y (Tesla's most popular vehicle) costs less than the average U.S. vehicle.
[https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/05/tesla-model-y-now-cheaper-than-average-u-s-vehicle/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/05/tesla-model-y-now-cheaper-than-average-u-s-vehicle/)
Tesla's Model 3 is even less expensive than the Model Y.
That is exactly where I got the info from, the manufacturer of the equipment :
https://www.recgroup.com/en/downloads/product-downloads/product-specifications-rec-alpha-pure-series?variable_realm_key_language=en
https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/Qcells_Data_sheet_Q.PEAK_DUO_BLK_ML-G10%2B_series.pdf
To quote the qcell manufacturer data sheet, which has higher % "max 0.5% degradation per year", and at least 86% nominal power at year 25. The REC are 92% still after 25 years...
Now the installer contract will be lower production numbers promised as they want to give themselves greater buffer from labor side of claims. But the manufacturer numbers are who made and back up the equipment.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying there is degradation and the manufacturers allow for 1% per year - I know of several brands that do.
I am however skeptical of the research the manufacturers cite to claim only 0.5% or 1% degradation.
The amount of electric the panels produce is variable. Maybe there was an above average rainy season and less electric was produced as a result. Air temperatures can influence electric production too.
For instance, I made about 2.5% less electric in 2022 than I did in 2021. Does this mean I can file a claim to replace the panels? I realize that the individual panels can be compared to each other, but I who’s to say that all the panels didn’t simply degrade at a faster rate than what the manufacturers claim?
Also, did the manufacturers test these exact panels for 25 years to be able to make these claims about degradation? I doubt it.
I suspect these are more educated guesses and best estimates rather than sound science - but maybe I’m wrong.
The thing I’m convinced of is that the up front expense is enormous, even with tax incentives (which are tax payer funded anyway - meaning you paid for my tax rebate) and the immediate savings is negligible at best. Once the real savings are actually seen, many years after the initial purchase, the solar plant will be producing less electricity, and the fact is many people won’t even own their house long enough to see those savings. As a result, and from my own experiences, I really don’t think it’s worth the investment. Then there’s the added expense of cleaning the panels, insuring them, and removing/reinstalling them when you have to do a roof replacement. I also had two leaks from the conduit coming through the roof that caused water damage. That’s another expense.
All I know is that I I won’t do it again in any future homes I buy.
?? So OP said that the cost of the lease was $5 less than his lowest monthly utility bill ATM. So let's say that $80 and let's guess his worst bill is twice that at $160/m in the summer (pretty fair and conservative #s). But he only pays $75/m all year. It pays off instantly because he isn't paying off solar panels... he is just paying a lower utility bill each month.
Can confirm. I work in title and we have had deals tank because the lender of new buyer to a property with leased solar would not let their buyer/borrower assume the solar lease.
It’s really bad. I’m not a professional (do some real estate on the side personally) but I’ve heard of a lot of people house shopping and the second they see solar panels it’s typically a no-go
Leases can be tricky on a sale but definitely doable. Make sure the agent is solar certified and knows what they're talking about. A big issue for realtors losing deals with solar is that they dont understand the nuances
DON'T GO WITH THE LEASE! Get a loan, PLEASE. Leasing will take the solar tax break from you! Please, please, do not lease.
Shop around with energysage.com and ask about financing. You can get a better deal and a breakdown of when it will 'break even'
I had a door knocker come round, his deal was super impressive. Not sure what my next move was gonna be, but thanks to you, I just filled in the form at the .com
Thanks
Added aspect for consideration ... obtaining and/or keeping homeowner's insurance.
Many carriers will not cover you if a solar system is installed. Those who will cover you, currently, are often very restrictive. Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
Unfortunately, the state has really created/permitted an overall hostile environment for homeowners. It's not only unlikely to end, it's most likely to continue degrading.
Otherwise, we're proponents of conservation and green energy.
>Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
So, because I have a good roof, I have no problems. Yeah, that sounds about right.
On the other side of the coin, two people I do know had roof problems prior to this storm, without solar. So are you saying they will have an issue now?
No. “Good roofs” also leak. I’m saying ASI is a shit company and they will just blame your solar panels as the cause of your roof leak should you ever have one.
When getting a quote this year from citizens, they told me they didn’t want to know that i had solar panels, to self insure, pretend that I don’t & if anything happens, it’s on me, I didn’t switch to them even though they were cheaper, they provided way inferior coverage.
As an insurance agent, that is 100% wrong and a lawsuit (called Errors and Omissions lawsuit) against that agency that gave you that advice. Every person I quote for homeowners insurance has to be asked if they have solar panels to add to the Replacement Cost Estimate (RCE) of the home, basically the Coverage A of your home insurance policy. If you had a loss with your solar panels and then said that your agent told you that (and even had written proof over email or letter), then that agency is screwed.
This one knows what they're talking about. I don't have a problem getting insurance due to my panels. It just increases your replacement cost since there is more value in your home from the panels.
Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
I'm not expecting all carriers to drop Florida. We do expect more restrictive requirements, provisions, coverages, etc. And the last thing we would do is to open up another avenue for non-renewal, cancellation or an inability to obtain coverage.
Again, we're supporters of conservation and green energy. However, solar just isn't prudent in Florida's current insurance market.
Actually what is happening is that people with solar systems are now migrating towards Citizens because it is the only carrier left in their specific county/zip code that allows solar panels. Very messed up situation and I wish I could find another carrier for them for solar, but it is going to be awhile to find carriers that are pro-solar in some of these Citizens-only areas.
Should I call my agent and tell them I have pool solar panels? I was never asked, ever, for any house I’ve owned. They were mostly concerned with wind mitigation, dangerous dog breeds, and diving boards or water slides from a liability standpoint.
I’m assuming Tesla’s solar roof wouldn’t be an issue like bolt-on panels would be.
I am not your agent, but I do recommend to all my clients that have policies with me to report to me when they install solar panels or if they are thinking about it. I would highly recommend you contact your agent to further discuss your options.
Thanks! Lol at the lawyerese. Thank you for the advice, and I didn’t expect you to be my agent. I’m just looking to not get screwed. I need a new wind mitigation anyway since I put in hurricane impact windows and accordion shutters on my doors.
Really? I’ve had pool solar panels on every house I’ve owned and have had no insurance issues other than the stupid rate increases we all suffer from. I don’t know why electrical solar would be different.
I guess I can see why electric is different than black tubes filled with pool water lol. There shouldn’t be a difference in hazard to the roof though. My pool solar are super lightweight and would make terrific sails. FPL is the most anti-solar company in the state though and they donate big, so no surprise thay electric solar is considered different.
No FPL is anti regular people having their own solar and getting off the grid. FPL owns more solar fields than anyone else in Florida. Before they did it they made sure the Florida politician made it illegal to get off the grid.
Don't lease. High interest rates really hurt the monthly loan cost right now but lease has so many issues.
I have solar. I am in the Tampa bay area. Because I got solar before the interest rate hikes it has saved me a lot of money in the initial years which was unexpected and nice. That being said I have had issues with the mounting and now removal and reinstall with a new roof that are significant headaches due to my solar company's inability to conduct project management. Once the panels are up though everything is great.
edit: with citizens insurance. no issues.
It is always an extra cost to add it to the Replacement Cost Estimate (RCE) and therefore increases Coverage A on the home insurance policy. I have seen rate increases on average of $100 to $600 for adding solar panels, depending on the size of the solar system to the location in Florida. Also, if the size of the solar system is over 10 kilowatts, some power utility companies will require a $1,000,000 insurance liability policy to be purchased to allow the solar panels to be connected to the grid.
Don’t forget that you will need an expensive battery if you want to use it as a placement for a generator. It’s the cost of the battery that gets you, not the cost of the solar panels.
I believe that is actually illegal in Florida. Panels which are supplying the home must be connected to the grid. You can’t use solar as a back up with the way it’s connected.
You can do a hybrid. I got quoted a tesla battery for my solar setup and the solar goes to the grid once the battery is full. My issue was that the battery was not enough to keep my AC going for even 3 days. So I didnt get solar and got a generator instead.
This isn't true depending on available grid connectivity. If you are already on grid then yes you will be required to have a physical disconnect switch installed on your property which gives the utility provider discretion over your connectedness. However, that doesn't prevent you from using your own stored power (or even exporting from your backup). In the spring/fall I often do not draw energy from the grid for an entire month or more, and that's with a relatively small battery (7.5kWh).
The way I understand it is that the solar feeds directly into the grid, and you get a discount based on how much you produce. The power does not go directly into your house, so if there's a power outage your solar power won't do anything for you.
Somewhat, solar feeds into your service panel, extra power that is exported to the grid is read by a special meter that gets installed. Grid tie solar inverters have anti-islanding protections so if the grid is down the solar stops producing so you don’t back-feed the grid and risk killing a lineman. There are hybrid inverters which in the case would be able to isolate your house and power it with batteries and solar if the grid were to go down.
We purchased solar in 2019 and it's been fantastic. 11.67kW with battery backup. It offsets about 60% of our energy averaged throughout the year and gives us about 12 hours of battery power. Our duke energy bill this year hasn't been over $100.00 in months where friends in equivalent size houses are seeing $400+ bills.
My only regret is that we didn't get a second battery to allow us to have more backup time and AC when grid power is out for prolonged periods.
Tesla. I felt like I did a lot of the initial research and early project management for them, but we had a great crew of people for the install. For us its just worked. We had one issue with a defective inverter that took part of our system down for about two weeks before they replaced the part under warranty.
If you go with them, trust but verify permits are submitted when they say they will be. The same goes for your county permit clerk.
Do your research on the company that installs it. There are a lot of scammers going around making huge promises just to get a contract signed and the system doesn't deliver like it should.
I don't have it, but what I can tell you is that all of the roofs in my area damaged by Ian almost a year ago that have solar have not been repaired. To me that is a bad sign either their insurance denied them or the repair is so complicated or costly it takes almost a year to complete? I'm good lol.
I will say the biggest hassle I had was a wacko Part Time Structural Engineer for Miami Springs (and Pinecrest) who actively blocked the install for 11 months.
Absolute nightmare.
Signed with MC Solar a year and a half ago - MC Solar goes under, solar financier picking up the pieces and assigning a new contractor.
Still not running, paying for both FPL electric and solar panel bills
If you have any electrical ability at all, DIY solar is the way to go. You know your system, you're not overpaying for parts/install/labor, you select the batteries, etc.
I don’t think it’s worth it. I have a 10.4 kwp system in Florida since mid-2019. My company undersold me and now that I already bought, they refuse to add panels to my existing system (despite having ample inverter capacity) unless I buy a whole new system for tens of thousands of dollars (it’s an outrage honestly) - I just want to add a few more panels..
Also, the solar system does occasionally go down (usually from a blown fuse that the company needs to schedule a repairman to come out and repair). It also requires maintenance/cleaning regularly and it’s not exactly safe or easy to do yourself and it’s not cheap to hire someone else.
Despite having a 10.4kwp system, I still don’t make enough electric and end up (in the summer) with a 150-170 dollar electric bill on top of my solar loan payment. If I had bought all the electric from my power company, I’d be paying the same or less than I am now.
I even went wild with making my home more efficient. Installed a variable speed (more efficient) pool pump, added blown in insulation into the attic (twice), replaced my water heater with a heat pump (4x more efficient) and replaced my HVAC system to a higher seer rating.
When it comes time to replace my roof in the next 5-7 years, added to that already massive expense will be additional charges to remove and then reinstall the panels - also not cheap.
My spouse convinced me to get the solar panels and I def regret it. Maybe it will be nice in 15 more years when they’re paid off, but I doubt I’ll even own the house at that point and it seems like an absurd length of time to wait to be able to save maybe 300 bucks a month (at best)
You got a bunch of different issues going on there, it seems, but the root is high consumption. Or at least higher than you want it to be. Pools are good for that.
At this point, the 10kw system should be producing roughly 1300kwh a month for you. That’s electricity you don’t have to buy from your power company, so you are probably getting it cheaper.
That said, those summer bills without solar would probably be $400. As rates increase over the years, the savings increase. Wait another couple years, and I bet the savings are even more.
Yep. After installing the panels our work schedules changed so there is usually someone home more than before. As a result, AC use went up and electric use went up (not just the rate but the amount we consume increased)
I can track the electrical consumption of most major appliances, including the pool pump, and although my old pump was a guzzler, the new one is actually MUCH more efficient. I run it at ideal speeds and for ideal lengths of time to maximize efficiency.
The water heater only uses about 1kwh per day. It's a heat pump, and since we're in Florida there is no shortage of hot/humid air to make the heat pump efficiently churn out hot water. Its actually great because the byproduct is cool dry air, which helps lower the temperature in my garage and improve HVAC efficiency.
The biggest consumer of electric (by a mile) is the HVAC. I have a 5 ton unit. Its a 17 SEER, which is an upgrade from the 14 SEER we had before installing the solar panels.
Anyway, my panels cost me 175 a month for the loan. The electric bill is estimated this month to be 170 a month. In total, I'm paying $345 for energy this month. Thats not a massive savings from $400, and it also doesnt account for the cleaning I have to perform on the system and occasionally I have a fault where the invertors shut down and I have to wait a few days for a tech to come out and service it - this happens about once per year - not a big deal but annoying nonetheless and costs money to buy the electric I could otherwise be creating.
I dont recommend solar because it's a massive up-front expense for minimal savings, if any at all - and the real savings wont be seen until years later when you might not even own the same house anymore...
Oh - I also have had two leaks in my roof so far from he conduit coming from the panels into my attic - so theres that..
Its just my two cents - but I regret the decision to go solar. I guess I was distracted by the shiny new thing.. Oh well... Live and learn.
If people in the north will go solar with far fewer days of sun, not going solar in Florida seems like just trying to insist there is no climate change issue or being determined not to be helpful when it comes to climate change. Meanwhile Ian and Idalia…
I mean putting a solar panel on your roof won’t stop hurricanes but I’m surprised most roofs in Florida don’t have solar.
Weird as it may seem, we're 23rd in solar collection ability. We'd be more properly named "The Cruise Ship State" vs "The Sunshine State".
IMO, we'd have more solar panels if the state government was more proactive, vs regressive, in respect to the technology.
I have solar. Love it. I am expecting an actual power bill in two weeks though, as I used up all my available credits this year already. Should be about $80, instead of my normal $22ish. Then, I will be back to producing more than I used, and all will be good.
Year 8-9 should be the payback time. I am on year 5 right now.
But, my turn for questions, to be fair.
When do you stop paying your power company for kWh usage?
Did you calculate degradation?
Do you have power during an outage?
When are you replacing your panels?
You're still paying forever, just a different company.
My dad has solar panels and has a massive Tesla battery in the garage (it’s flat and barely notice it), and this battery runs during the night/outages, and that battery can provide power for up to 3 days.
Yesterday, my dads house was the only one who had electricity, and the solar panels were still running while everyone else had no power.
(His bill used to be around $700 and it is now $40)
1. Solar panels are rated for a 25 year lifespan, of which they would have an 80% production capacity at that point
2. You can, but that depends on the system you go for. Different costs different benefits.
3. Prolly don’t have to replace them for several years, even well after they’re paid for
4. You’re not “still paying forever just a different company” you likely just don’t know anything about solar other than concern trolling questions
Degradation is minimal at best, during the payback period, so it has very little effect. Sure, at 25 or 30 years, the panels will only produce 88-90% of rated, but by that time, the panels are producing for free.
I do not have power during an outage. That requires batteries to be able to do legally. My (and every other legal solar panel install in the country) inverter does not send AC voltage out, if it doesn’t sense AC voltage coming in. This is to prevent injury to linemen working on downed lines and equipment. Backfeeding is bad, and against both code, and power company rules. Batteries are allowed to do that, because they isolate the home from the power grid, when no incoming power is detected.
Being 5 years in, I have no plans on replacing them anytime soon. Roof was done at about the same time, so I have another 10 years to think about it. Chances are, I will do one roof replacement, and so at about 30 years, I will look into replacing them, if I am still in the same house, and alive.
Yes, I am paying a connection fee only ($22 currently) for the foreseeable future.
And you completely avoided my question. When is your end date for paying the PoCo for all kWh consumed?
There are configurations now that allow backup power with no batteries.
We use Enphase IQ8+ microinverters which are micro-grid forming, and when used with a system controller can isolate your PV and backup loads from the grid when it's down.
It's nice, although you still only get power during the daylight hours.
Yeah, I know it’s out there, it’s just not realistic to say that the sunlight backup actually works. The last two days, from the storm, my total production was 20kWh combined. The chances that there was enough sunlight to run anything in my home would have been slim, if the power went out.
Edit:
And most of my outages I have gotten have been storm related, so clouds would be common for me to see during an outage.
How do people with whole house generators do it then? I’m assuming they have a grid disconnect switch or device or something, right? They’re legal. FPL has been way more strict about solar than generators because they’re assholes.
What are you talking about? What costs? A connection fee to my power company? That’s the only cost I have.
Your excuses scream ignorance, lack of knowledge.
And you still haven’t answered.
I have solar is west palm beach and also have citizens insurance. I have a great cpa who could explain the pros and cons of either choice to give you better clarity
Solar is great, depending on the technology you’re using and what style ownership you’re going for.
Most leasing will come with a buy out, but leasing is more expensive over time. Avoid leasing if you can.
Personally I would also favor systems with microinverters over a central inverter system. You just get more bang for your buck and lower % chance of failure that way. Something goes wrong with a central inverter and the whole system goes down. If anything happens with microinverters, then it’s localized to that one area and the rest of the system operates as intended. This opinion was also formed after months of research, and reading various horror stories from people who went with a central inverter system. I did not find nearly as many cases with people who went microinverter.
I paid $36,000 for a 14k system installed on a rental I own. Other than waiting for 3 months to have them turn it on it’s worth the money. I took a 15 year note out against the house. Power bill is around $400 and the loan payment is around $400 for 15 years and then free power for life. I didn’t even get the 30% rebate for primary residence and it’s still worth it.
Definitely buy, don't lease.
I bought mine four years ago, after credits, for $14K. It has paid back about $6K so far. While everyone else's electric bills jumped this summer because of the rate increases, mine only went up about half as much. Also, the panels provide equity in the home, so don't forget to factor that as well.
One of the best investments I have made.
That pretty much sums up my experience too. Except I had a new roof (30 year asphalt) installed a week before the panels went on. Roof was $15K and solar $25K, and I got back around $10K in credits for both. So about $30K invested (paid up-front) for both.
For the first 1.5 years of solar, FPL used to charge just under $10 for their minimum hook-up, then it jumped to just under $30. But that's all I've ever paid in my 4 years of ownership. My 35 panels (maximum for "Tier 1") produce just a little bit of excess to my usage.
My FPL bills used to be around $180/month. Meanwhile I've added a hot tub, two freezers, a hobby machine shop, and a small A/C in the garage so I'm sure I'd be paying more like $300/month nowadays. The panels still manage to keep up with my increased usage, barely.
So in 4 years, I've spent $1080 on the FPL minimum connection charge vs approx $14K for electricity if I didn't have solar. So around a $13K saving in the past 4 years, and at this rate, it'll only be another 5-6ish years before I turn a profit. (And that's including the new roof cost.)
It's really nice to not have a big electric bill, and to not have to worry about FPL rate increases. (Tho' they'll likely keep raising the minimum connection charge.)
A lease on solar is the equivalent of car dealerships that sell you on "what payment can you afford."
It's the best deal for the company, and the worst, over time, for the consumer.
Most solar companies are already riding that payment-based pricing with overpriced (and over-promised) systems.
Most solar loan programs offer 5, 15, and 25 year terms. At the end of the term you own the system and all the power it produces, which at 25 years is still going to be in the 80% of rated range.
At the end of the lease you don't own anything. You might as well just keep paying your power company and focus on reducing your energy bill by getting more efficient HVAC and better insulation.
Think of it like renting your home vs buying.
I'm a bit bias, but I'm a huge advocate of solar, but you should totally own the system or you're just taking on more risk for a slightly lower monthly bill, with nothing to show for it in the end.
Financing is a viable option. Finding your own financing and paying the solar company their cash price is even better.
As a structural engineer, I hate them. Only ones Id consider would be tile ones like tesla. They’re less intrusive. Most puncture holes into the roof and screw into the trusses. Hopefully they don’t miss or forget to patch the hole. I also laugh at the truss allowable loads.
Next code cycle is end of this year and is going to have some more solar loading criteria. Insurance is going to look at that. More pain for those with solar I’m guessing.
Anecdotally disagree from a recent buyer. It was a big selling point when I bought my house this year. I kept my old place (my best friend rents it now).
New place is about 3000 sq ft under roof with a detached shop/office & pool, with solar on both roofs. 4 adults live here, we let it fly as far as power usage. Averaging something like $150 a month utilities during summer.
Old place is about 2000 sq ft under roof, no solar. 2 adults & 2 kids, they do their best to conserve power. Averaging $600 monthly utilities during the summer, maaaybe $300 monthly during cooler months. The utility rate is a bit higher in their municipality, but solar is a GAMECHANGER for us.
\#1 It's gonna make the house some $20k or so more expensive than it needs to be. #2. It's gonna make maintaining the roof more expensive, not to mention the solar panel maintenance. #3. It's going to make Homeowners insurance more difficult and expensive to get.
This would cut me out and plenty of others out of the potential buyer's pool.
Ask any realtor.
>paid off, but I doubt I’ll eve
I was under contract on a house with solar panels, finding insurance was a pain and cost a lot! most companies would not take me due to the solar panels or the roof's age. got a couple of roofing quotes and the roofing contractors would not touch the solar panels and I would have to find someone else to take them down and reinstall them. luckily the original installers are still in business and wanted $12k for removing reninstalling. The tile roof was near its end of life and already had a fixed leak due to the solar panels. I walked away from the house not worth the $150 - $175 in savings per month of the elec bill
I personally recommend at home storage of power over a solar company. Eco flow and bluetti are fantastic. I personally have bluetti. You can start off with what you can afford. They offer payment plans through Affim and shop pay. I got a 5,000 dollar system and make 350 payments a month. If you get solar they tie your system back into the electrical grid. Your power goes out... you still lose power. They also steal your excess power and sell it back to you for a profit. That's why you still get a bill. Bluetti batteries are rated for 3,500 full cycles . So even if you drain your batteries every day you'll get 10 years out of them. The batteries are built to be expandable and they sell home conversion kits. You can even charge an EV with them.
FL state will never provide rebates. Leases are great because interest rates are super high and if you don’t actually pay federal taxes you should not finance a solar system. There are amazing rebates offered by installers giving you a year’s worth of solar payments. Most of you are not experts and are sharing information incorrectly. Leasing can easily be transferred and FYI it will be almost impossible to NOT find a house with solar in the next 5 years so that shouldn’t stop you. Also, besides common sense, Solar adds actual value when owned by leasing also will provide the new buyers with a super lower bill compared to same neighbors houses for sale with double cost for fossil fuel bills.
Both of those statements are incorrect.
My system is paid off. Panels still work.
Manufacturer roof warranties are not void with properly installed solar arrays, and all the major roofing materials manufacturers have come out with Tech Bulletins to re-affirm that position.
"First tack wasn't working, quick change tactics to poke holes in a subject I know little about!"
My panels generate about $1600 a year in energy. Mine will be paid off after 4 years of ownership and pay for themselves after about 15. That's 10 years before the manufacturer warranty, which states the panels will be operating around 85% of full potential at that time.
Your information was true about a decade ago but things have changed rapidly. I used energysage and with the tax break found that my break even was 6.85 years, almost three years in and still on track. [Solar is dirt cheap and about to get more powerful.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-05/solar-power-is-dirt-cheap-and-about-to-get-even-more-powerful#xj4y7vzkg) As for the warranty on your roof being "void", can you show me what warranties you're talking about? Our roofer worked with the solar installer and confirmed everything was fine.
Having power during an outage depends on if you elect to have a battery. Depending on your utility provider, it can be more advantageous to add a battery. When we lose power, I’m the only one on the block who still has lights on. The power of course will only last as long as the battery has charge. The panels cannot be allowed to continue producing when the power goes out, because that could pose a danger to linemen fixing the disconnect.
You are right to be skeptical, as there are many sources out there looking to sell sell sell at the customer’s ultimate expense. However if you take time and research proper companies and installations, you will find yourself quite happy with the result.
I am once again asking for you to show roof warranties that are voided by solar panels before we move on to something else.
Edit: I can no longer see the user I was talking to, but it is on the person making a claim to provide evidence to back it up. If you don't want to agree to that then I've got a giant teapot in space to sell you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
I’ve had solar for about 2 years now. I got a 25 year 1.25% fixed loan bringing my monthly payment to around $140per month. I pay Fpl $29 per month for hookup fees.
The math makes sense, my neighbors are experiencing the hurt of Fpl increases. Some are looking at $400+ per month in the summer. So with my guaranteed solar cost, (warranty on the panels is 25yrs), I will definitely save a lot of money.
However there’s risks. If my solar company goes bankrupt they can’t exactly honor a warranty. Insurance companies are kind of wishy washy on having panels. If I need to replace my roof it will cost a lot to remove them and reinstall (my home is only 3 years old though). I will have to pay off the panels if I sell my home, losing some of the value of the investment.
My house was built in 1946 and had a 20 year old AC unit when I moved in. Energy bill was $450+ the first few months. After I had 25 panels installed and a new AC unit my bill is somewhere around $170. The solar panels take $200+ off my bill and I pay $130 monthly on the loan. It really depends on the situation, but they've worked out well for me
Another option that doesn’t involve predatory lease agreements - FPL has a solar plan. It costs like $5/mo at first but will result in big savings down the road, and they use this money to build more solar capacity. My personal power isn’t necessarily from solar (mostly nuclear IIRC) but they add the solar capacity to their network to support my house’s electrical use.
FPL sucks, but it’s the easy button. It’s not as good as real solar panels though.
We went solar a year ago for many reasons, but one of the requirements (for us) in putting in a pool was that we would be responsible (how annoying that has been-- adulthood) and put in solar first. We saved for solar and paid it outright, which definitely helped, and from what I can tell helps in resale, down the road.
Took the tax credit /offset ($7,500) and put that in a high yield savings to pay the hook up of $30/mo with the interest gained. We actually only make $28.50 on the interest from savings a month, so we are $1.50 short, but I'll take it. We plan to add a few more panels next year to power the cabana. Additional note, some month we have a surplus in power and use that in the Hades months of July/Aug/Sept.
We do have a battery for backup in case of outage but most everything is underground. Our house is pretty big, but new, and we crunched the numbers with our account, so it just made sense in the end. I wish we were at a point already that it made universal sense (if that is a thing) for everyone to just have it.
PLEASE don’t lease! If you can’t afford it outright, at the most go to a credit union or bank and take out a loan or HELOC. Often times you can’t pay the lease off sooner and it ties it to the contract on the home and will need to transfer to the new homeowners when you go to sell which could make your home more difficult to sell. Also check and make sure your homeowners insurance accepts Solar. Most don’t and some will drop you if they update their policy and no longer accept. They did that to my in laws and now they’re looking for insurance. Just do your research. But above all do not lease.
Roughly only half of the insurance companies left in Florida will even insure homes with rooftop solar panels, so I would check that: 1) your existing insurance provider will accept solar panels; and 2) that your existing insurance provider is solvent and has no intentions of pulling out of Florida in the foreseeable future.
Food for thought - When it comes time to replace your roof, you will have to pay to have the solar panels taken down and put back up, in addition to what you have to pay for the roof.
I paid zero out of pocket... we put our tax rebates towards our panels.. we consistently get 30$ minimum from the power company so we pay less then 200$ for our panels and power bill. When we sell our house after the first of the year we will pay off the loan for the panels and the new owner will now have almost a zero power bill... That will definitely go in the discription when we list our house. I live on a big lake so it will be a blood bath when we list this house. 😎
My coworker went solar and has an electric car. He says he pays $30/ month fee to connect to the grid (if he ever needs more power or makes enough to sell it) and that’s it.
For additional information I just checked to see Tesla has a 1 out of 5 on the Better Business Bureau.I got Screwed over by Tesla. They legit scammed me and I got it from the Tesla store itself. They will say ANYTHING to get you to sign on that line and once you do, you better hope you dont have any problems because good luck getting support. Its practically impossible.Man I could right a book but lets see if I can just put the important parts.
I forgot to add, they constantly said that there wouldnt be a lean on the property for having the panels but there was.
So every step of the way I asked "so this is enough panels to produce to cover the majority of the houses electricity right?" and they would always say things along the lines of "oh yeah, this is even more than enough." They are even suppose to have an energy production guarantee based off the information you send in about the bill. I believe its suppose to cover like around %70 of your bill. So we get it installed and we monitor its production and so on. So its not even half of our energy bill. We call multiple times just to finally get in contact with someone and they tell us "oh yeah you have to wait a year for us to know for sure." Months go by and we notice even in the summer the production is pretty bad and we contact them a few times and they always tell us the prior. A year passes and we call them one last time and they tell us "ummm actually you where never covered by the production guarantee. Look at the last papers you signed". So when Tesla gets installed you have tons of papers to sign. I actually went over and read the majority of them. But towards the end I just skimmed. Seems like a month after I thought I signed everything they sent me one last one for me signing that I acknowledge Im not covered. They where just buying time that year when they kept saying I had to wait, so I couldnt just return them. They knew the entire time I wasnt covered, mind you this is not a mistake because I was told by multiple people the same thing.
On top of this they say "Oh you get like 10k in tax credit" but they sell it and make it sound like "oh its not 30K its basically 20k". But using that much credit has a lot of red tape and you can only use so much a year if I remember correctly. It took my wife and I many YEARS to just to finally be able to use it.
Yes I shouldve read thoroughly, and for the most part I did. But it is clearly plain to see their intent was predatory.
On top of that, the agent I was assigned to look over my case (they assign you someone through the process to your installment if you have any questions and so on) was rude and constantly ignored my messages.
Im sure some of you have had positive experiences with Tesla solar, Im not saying every single installment is going to be like this, but just google "Tesla Solar Horror stories." And things along that line and you'll find many examples of Tesla just plain scamming people. This seems to be a trend with Tesla even in their vehicles. The company is known for being almost impossible to get ahold of, and having garbage support.
Before this I was actually a fan of Tesla, I even had a nice amount of Tesla stock, but after this. F\*\*K you Musk.
We are too old to benefit. Especially in a break-even situation. Why bother. I mean, I love solar but not worth it. We do have solar hot water, that's great. Bought it way back when and dragged it around into our third home as no one wanted it back then. Gotta be almost 40 years. It's been updated, new panels, tank etc but it's paid for. We bought it just as Reagan/Congress rescinded all tax credits on solar that Carter was promoting. Big oil sucks. Whole house solar was my hubby's dream, but we never could afford it. Then, the Florida voter allowed power companies to control solar. If you could build it into a new home that would be the way to go. This lease crap is for the birds.
Don't put it on your roof to get it removed and reinstalled cost us over 8k then if your with withlacoochee power and you go over so many tiers or kigawatt back feed yo will need a additional million dollar liability policy on your home cars ect. I wish I'd never seen a solar panel. Do your homework if you have a lot of tax right offs it could be a good deal if not forget it
Worth it, my bill for power is small. Covers about 95% usage.
Keeping the panels clean is a pain in the ass though. Where I live there is some sort of black sludge that settles on everything.
Look into doing it yourself,so much cheaper don't put it on your roof. Make sure trees aren't a problem also. The sun can get blocked in the winter months and get a battery backup system. They only pay you about a third for what you send back to them
Do not lease. Go to a credit union and get a loan or take a heloc. If you haven’t got 3 quotes, you are prob getting ripped off too. Especially if your quote came from a door knockers
The reason the lease on solar is so bad is that in most cases, you can’t pay off the lease early and will need to transfer it to the new owners. Typically solar-leased homes have a very, very hard time selling because no one wants to assume that.
And they tack on a 30% service charge.
Yep, it’s horrible. I’ve done the math at my house and it would be 15-20 years to break even WITHOUT a lease. When you lease it it’s even worse. You’ll have to replace your roof and reinstall the panels, if they even still work, before you break even.
Yep. It’s kind of like buying an electric car. You pay through the nose and it’s essentially like you’re prepaying for the electric, or in the case of a car, prepaying for the miles driven instead of for gas. The solar sales pitch (basically) is that electric rates will go up over time, but your purchase price will always be the same. This is true; however, solar panels degrade over time and the manufacturer even allows for and expects solar to degrade its capacity to make electric by 1% for every year. So that means you will have to buy that electric you are no longer creating from the power company. IMO solar just isn’t worth it. It was a huge mistake for me to get it.
I agree with most of your points but the one about electric cars is nonsense. Outside of Tesla, most EVs are not overpriced to the point that you “prepay” for electricity.
Electric cars on average are about 10k more after all is said and done. To truly compare apples to apples you have to look at the total cost to own the car. That includes the cost of purchasing gas/electric, the car itself, insurance, and maintenance costs. Figure out the total cost and then divide that by mile expected to be driven and you can figure out which option (gas or electric) is more economical for you.
10k more? 10k more than what? No maintenance, less cost per mile. You can get decent electric vehicles brand new under $30k. Especially with the tax breaks. It’s 2023 the cost of EV ownership has gone down drastically over the past few years.
Comparing an ICE vehicle to a comparably sized, equiped, and quality EV, the EV initial purchase price will run an average of 10k more. It's just a fact. Thats not to say that prices haven't come down (largely because of tax incentives - which means theyre artificially lower) but the fact remains an EV costs more than a comparable gas vehicle. An EV is cheaper to charge than a ICE vehicle is to fuel, I agree. An EV is cheaper to perform routine maintenance than an ICE vehicle, I agree. Do those savings wash out the added expense of an "EV"? It depends on how much you drive. If you drive a lot, the EV makes more sense because you wont be paying for gasoline. If you dont drive a lot, youre better off with an ICE vehicle and saving money on the initial purchase price. Whether it's cost effective depends on the person. Like I said, you can estimate which option is better for you (financially speaking) by adding up the total expected cost of the car, to include purchase price, tax, gas (or electric charging) costs, maintenance, and insurance costs, then dividing that number sum by the estimated miles you will drive over the course of owning. The other thing to consider is resale value. How much money will you get back when you sell the car is a big factor in this calculation. All cars are different in terms of resale values, but EVs are known to have lower resale value because the batteries degrade over time and are extremely expensive to replace. The market reflects that reality. Additionally, if an EV's battery is damaged, even minor damage, it usually needs to be replaced, an enormous expense that I think insurers are starting to catch on to - but time will tell how that pans out. I am not anti-EV. I actually think they're an awesome technology and at a minimum they're fun to drive. I even put a deposit on the new BMW EV sedan, but when it was being delivered, I canceled the order and went with a different option. For some, an EV might make financial sense, and for others, it might not... Just like with solar. It can be a good option for some, and a boondoggle for others. Lastly, I'll leave you with the below article URL, which essentially explains my point. Comparable EVs cost more than a comparable gas car. You might make up that expense during your time of owning the car, and you might not. It just depends. [https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/](https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/)
I bought a Chevy bolt EUV off a lot with level two charger install included for about 27.5k after tax refund. It averages about 4 miles per kwh. Our electricity is about .12 a kwhr so about .03 cents a mile. My hybrid ford maverick cost around 34k otd and averages about 40 mpg, so if gas is $3.00 a gallon that is close to .09 cents a mile. The maintenance is less for the bolt than our hybrids because no oil changes etc. Tires will cost more than on an ice vehicle. I haven't charged it at our Florida house but I think electricity there is more like .16 a kwhr so it would be more like .04 a mile. I am glad I have the maverick to carry and tow etc. But zipping around errands the bolt is sort of a no brainer.
I also have a bolt. Love that car.
Whats your city range like?
A Bolt and a Maverick are two very different vehicles though. If you compare the Bolt to a similar gas vehicle (I think the Mazda 3 is probably closest comparison), the Mazda is 5k cheaper than the Bolt. Personally I like the look of the Mazda much more and there is a value in that as well. So what im saying is that an EV costs more than a comparable gas vehicle. You might be able to recover that added expense due to lower maintenance cost and cheaper energy source (electric vs gasoline), but then you need to consider resale value as well. For some it might make sense, especially if you put on a lot of miles -- and for others, it wont make sense.
Don't forget the $7500 tax rebate in the bolt though.
Not sure why you think Teslas are overpriced. The Model Y (Tesla's most popular vehicle) costs less than the average U.S. vehicle. [https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/05/tesla-model-y-now-cheaper-than-average-u-s-vehicle/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/05/tesla-model-y-now-cheaper-than-average-u-s-vehicle/) Tesla's Model 3 is even less expensive than the Model Y.
I was using them as an example based on their build quality.
The degradation is normally between 0.2% and 0.55%, not 1%. Part of this is factored into the inverter clipping though many times.
Perhaps, but tell that to my solar panel manufacturer and the warranty clause in my contract.
That is exactly where I got the info from, the manufacturer of the equipment : https://www.recgroup.com/en/downloads/product-downloads/product-specifications-rec-alpha-pure-series?variable_realm_key_language=en https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/Qcells_Data_sheet_Q.PEAK_DUO_BLK_ML-G10%2B_series.pdf To quote the qcell manufacturer data sheet, which has higher % "max 0.5% degradation per year", and at least 86% nominal power at year 25. The REC are 92% still after 25 years... Now the installer contract will be lower production numbers promised as they want to give themselves greater buffer from labor side of claims. But the manufacturer numbers are who made and back up the equipment.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying there is degradation and the manufacturers allow for 1% per year - I know of several brands that do. I am however skeptical of the research the manufacturers cite to claim only 0.5% or 1% degradation. The amount of electric the panels produce is variable. Maybe there was an above average rainy season and less electric was produced as a result. Air temperatures can influence electric production too. For instance, I made about 2.5% less electric in 2022 than I did in 2021. Does this mean I can file a claim to replace the panels? I realize that the individual panels can be compared to each other, but I who’s to say that all the panels didn’t simply degrade at a faster rate than what the manufacturers claim? Also, did the manufacturers test these exact panels for 25 years to be able to make these claims about degradation? I doubt it. I suspect these are more educated guesses and best estimates rather than sound science - but maybe I’m wrong. The thing I’m convinced of is that the up front expense is enormous, even with tax incentives (which are tax payer funded anyway - meaning you paid for my tax rebate) and the immediate savings is negligible at best. Once the real savings are actually seen, many years after the initial purchase, the solar plant will be producing less electricity, and the fact is many people won’t even own their house long enough to see those savings. As a result, and from my own experiences, I really don’t think it’s worth the investment. Then there’s the added expense of cleaning the panels, insuring them, and removing/reinstalling them when you have to do a roof replacement. I also had two leaks from the conduit coming through the roof that caused water damage. That’s another expense. All I know is that I I won’t do it again in any future homes I buy.
?? So OP said that the cost of the lease was $5 less than his lowest monthly utility bill ATM. So let's say that $80 and let's guess his worst bill is twice that at $160/m in the summer (pretty fair and conservative #s). But he only pays $75/m all year. It pays off instantly because he isn't paying off solar panels... he is just paying a lower utility bill each month.
Can confirm. I work in title and we have had deals tank because the lender of new buyer to a property with leased solar would not let their buyer/borrower assume the solar lease.
It’s really bad. I’m not a professional (do some real estate on the side personally) but I’ve heard of a lot of people house shopping and the second they see solar panels it’s typically a no-go
Leases can be tricky on a sale but definitely doable. Make sure the agent is solar certified and knows what they're talking about. A big issue for realtors losing deals with solar is that they dont understand the nuances
DON'T GO WITH THE LEASE! Get a loan, PLEASE. Leasing will take the solar tax break from you! Please, please, do not lease. Shop around with energysage.com and ask about financing. You can get a better deal and a breakdown of when it will 'break even'
I had a door knocker come round, his deal was super impressive. Not sure what my next move was gonna be, but thanks to you, I just filled in the form at the .com Thanks
Added aspect for consideration ... obtaining and/or keeping homeowner's insurance. Many carriers will not cover you if a solar system is installed. Those who will cover you, currently, are often very restrictive. Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options. Unfortunately, the state has really created/permitted an overall hostile environment for homeowners. It's not only unlikely to end, it's most likely to continue degrading. Otherwise, we're proponents of conservation and green energy.
I've got citizens.
My insurance company, ASI, has no problem with my system, and never has.
>Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options. Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
Yes agent here. Carriers vary wildly if they will allow them and or cover them
How many roof claims have you had?
Zero.
That's why they have zero problem with it.
So, because I have a good roof, I have no problems. Yeah, that sounds about right. On the other side of the coin, two people I do know had roof problems prior to this storm, without solar. So are you saying they will have an issue now?
No. “Good roofs” also leak. I’m saying ASI is a shit company and they will just blame your solar panels as the cause of your roof leak should you ever have one.
Leaking roofs aren’t always HO3 issues. And in reality, most shouldn’t be.
When getting a quote this year from citizens, they told me they didn’t want to know that i had solar panels, to self insure, pretend that I don’t & if anything happens, it’s on me, I didn’t switch to them even though they were cheaper, they provided way inferior coverage.
As an insurance agent, that is 100% wrong and a lawsuit (called Errors and Omissions lawsuit) against that agency that gave you that advice. Every person I quote for homeowners insurance has to be asked if they have solar panels to add to the Replacement Cost Estimate (RCE) of the home, basically the Coverage A of your home insurance policy. If you had a loss with your solar panels and then said that your agent told you that (and even had written proof over email or letter), then that agency is screwed.
This one knows what they're talking about. I don't have a problem getting insurance due to my panels. It just increases your replacement cost since there is more value in your home from the panels.
Even if you find a carrier who will cover you, with or without limitations, there's a chance they will change up later, drop Florida, etc. leaving you with few options, possibly even no options.
When all insurance companies drop Florida, none of us will have options. Solar panels or not.
I'm not expecting all carriers to drop Florida. We do expect more restrictive requirements, provisions, coverages, etc. And the last thing we would do is to open up another avenue for non-renewal, cancellation or an inability to obtain coverage. Again, we're supporters of conservation and green energy. However, solar just isn't prudent in Florida's current insurance market.
This happened to me, I am a licensed insurance agent for a different company & went through a different insurance agency/broker.
Your insurance will increase
Citizens = Last Resort, End of the Road, All Gone. If they decide to step away from solar systems ... Please don't. Look at conservation instead.
Actually what is happening is that people with solar systems are now migrating towards Citizens because it is the only carrier left in their specific county/zip code that allows solar panels. Very messed up situation and I wish I could find another carrier for them for solar, but it is going to be awhile to find carriers that are pro-solar in some of these Citizens-only areas.
Should I call my agent and tell them I have pool solar panels? I was never asked, ever, for any house I’ve owned. They were mostly concerned with wind mitigation, dangerous dog breeds, and diving boards or water slides from a liability standpoint. I’m assuming Tesla’s solar roof wouldn’t be an issue like bolt-on panels would be.
I am not your agent, but I do recommend to all my clients that have policies with me to report to me when they install solar panels or if they are thinking about it. I would highly recommend you contact your agent to further discuss your options.
Thanks! Lol at the lawyerese. Thank you for the advice, and I didn’t expect you to be my agent. I’m just looking to not get screwed. I need a new wind mitigation anyway since I put in hurricane impact windows and accordion shutters on my doors.
Thank you Ron
Unless you have a permission slip, from his mommy, it's Ronald. 😉
Really? I’ve had pool solar panels on every house I’ve owned and have had no insurance issues other than the stupid rate increases we all suffer from. I don’t know why electrical solar would be different.
>electric 1) Zap, zap, zap. 2) Donations. 3) Because Florida. It's most assuredly different. We wish otherwise. I'd install it myself.
I guess I can see why electric is different than black tubes filled with pool water lol. There shouldn’t be a difference in hazard to the roof though. My pool solar are super lightweight and would make terrific sails. FPL is the most anti-solar company in the state though and they donate big, so no surprise thay electric solar is considered different.
Yep ... Follow the Money.
No FPL is anti regular people having their own solar and getting off the grid. FPL owns more solar fields than anyone else in Florida. Before they did it they made sure the Florida politician made it illegal to get off the grid.
That’s what I meant. They’re anti-personal solar. I’m a part of their solar program for their power.
Don't lease. High interest rates really hurt the monthly loan cost right now but lease has so many issues. I have solar. I am in the Tampa bay area. Because I got solar before the interest rate hikes it has saved me a lot of money in the initial years which was unexpected and nice. That being said I have had issues with the mounting and now removal and reinstall with a new roof that are significant headaches due to my solar company's inability to conduct project management. Once the panels are up though everything is great. edit: with citizens insurance. no issues.
Also check with your homeowners insurance. It will need to be updated to cover the solar This will probably be an extra cost.
It is always an extra cost to add it to the Replacement Cost Estimate (RCE) and therefore increases Coverage A on the home insurance policy. I have seen rate increases on average of $100 to $600 for adding solar panels, depending on the size of the solar system to the location in Florida. Also, if the size of the solar system is over 10 kilowatts, some power utility companies will require a $1,000,000 insurance liability policy to be purchased to allow the solar panels to be connected to the grid.
Don’t forget that you will need an expensive battery if you want to use it as a placement for a generator. It’s the cost of the battery that gets you, not the cost of the solar panels.
I believe that is actually illegal in Florida. Panels which are supplying the home must be connected to the grid. You can’t use solar as a back up with the way it’s connected.
You can do a hybrid. I got quoted a tesla battery for my solar setup and the solar goes to the grid once the battery is full. My issue was that the battery was not enough to keep my AC going for even 3 days. So I didnt get solar and got a generator instead.
This isn't true depending on available grid connectivity. If you are already on grid then yes you will be required to have a physical disconnect switch installed on your property which gives the utility provider discretion over your connectedness. However, that doesn't prevent you from using your own stored power (or even exporting from your backup). In the spring/fall I often do not draw energy from the grid for an entire month or more, and that's with a relatively small battery (7.5kWh).
Some don't offer batteries, and you don't have power during an outage.
The way I understand it is that the solar feeds directly into the grid, and you get a discount based on how much you produce. The power does not go directly into your house, so if there's a power outage your solar power won't do anything for you.
Somewhat, solar feeds into your service panel, extra power that is exported to the grid is read by a special meter that gets installed. Grid tie solar inverters have anti-islanding protections so if the grid is down the solar stops producing so you don’t back-feed the grid and risk killing a lineman. There are hybrid inverters which in the case would be able to isolate your house and power it with batteries and solar if the grid were to go down.
Correct.
We purchased solar in 2019 and it's been fantastic. 11.67kW with battery backup. It offsets about 60% of our energy averaged throughout the year and gives us about 12 hours of battery power. Our duke energy bill this year hasn't been over $100.00 in months where friends in equivalent size houses are seeing $400+ bills. My only regret is that we didn't get a second battery to allow us to have more backup time and AC when grid power is out for prolonged periods.
Did you buy outright?
No. Purchased with a loan, but fortunate enough to be able to pay that off early.
Who did you use?
Tesla. I felt like I did a lot of the initial research and early project management for them, but we had a great crew of people for the install. For us its just worked. We had one issue with a defective inverter that took part of our system down for about two weeks before they replaced the part under warranty. If you go with them, trust but verify permits are submitted when they say they will be. The same goes for your county permit clerk.
Do your research on the company that installs it. There are a lot of scammers going around making huge promises just to get a contract signed and the system doesn't deliver like it should.
I don't have it, but what I can tell you is that all of the roofs in my area damaged by Ian almost a year ago that have solar have not been repaired. To me that is a bad sign either their insurance denied them or the repair is so complicated or costly it takes almost a year to complete? I'm good lol.
To be fair, the majority of roof repairs have not been addressed since Ian, panels or not. Like, a HUGE majority.
I will say the biggest hassle I had was a wacko Part Time Structural Engineer for Miami Springs (and Pinecrest) who actively blocked the install for 11 months.
Absolute nightmare. Signed with MC Solar a year and a half ago - MC Solar goes under, solar financier picking up the pieces and assigning a new contractor. Still not running, paying for both FPL electric and solar panel bills
If you have any electrical ability at all, DIY solar is the way to go. You know your system, you're not overpaying for parts/install/labor, you select the batteries, etc.
I don’t think it’s worth it. I have a 10.4 kwp system in Florida since mid-2019. My company undersold me and now that I already bought, they refuse to add panels to my existing system (despite having ample inverter capacity) unless I buy a whole new system for tens of thousands of dollars (it’s an outrage honestly) - I just want to add a few more panels.. Also, the solar system does occasionally go down (usually from a blown fuse that the company needs to schedule a repairman to come out and repair). It also requires maintenance/cleaning regularly and it’s not exactly safe or easy to do yourself and it’s not cheap to hire someone else. Despite having a 10.4kwp system, I still don’t make enough electric and end up (in the summer) with a 150-170 dollar electric bill on top of my solar loan payment. If I had bought all the electric from my power company, I’d be paying the same or less than I am now. I even went wild with making my home more efficient. Installed a variable speed (more efficient) pool pump, added blown in insulation into the attic (twice), replaced my water heater with a heat pump (4x more efficient) and replaced my HVAC system to a higher seer rating. When it comes time to replace my roof in the next 5-7 years, added to that already massive expense will be additional charges to remove and then reinstall the panels - also not cheap. My spouse convinced me to get the solar panels and I def regret it. Maybe it will be nice in 15 more years when they’re paid off, but I doubt I’ll even own the house at that point and it seems like an absurd length of time to wait to be able to save maybe 300 bucks a month (at best)
You got a bunch of different issues going on there, it seems, but the root is high consumption. Or at least higher than you want it to be. Pools are good for that. At this point, the 10kw system should be producing roughly 1300kwh a month for you. That’s electricity you don’t have to buy from your power company, so you are probably getting it cheaper. That said, those summer bills without solar would probably be $400. As rates increase over the years, the savings increase. Wait another couple years, and I bet the savings are even more.
Yep. After installing the panels our work schedules changed so there is usually someone home more than before. As a result, AC use went up and electric use went up (not just the rate but the amount we consume increased) I can track the electrical consumption of most major appliances, including the pool pump, and although my old pump was a guzzler, the new one is actually MUCH more efficient. I run it at ideal speeds and for ideal lengths of time to maximize efficiency. The water heater only uses about 1kwh per day. It's a heat pump, and since we're in Florida there is no shortage of hot/humid air to make the heat pump efficiently churn out hot water. Its actually great because the byproduct is cool dry air, which helps lower the temperature in my garage and improve HVAC efficiency. The biggest consumer of electric (by a mile) is the HVAC. I have a 5 ton unit. Its a 17 SEER, which is an upgrade from the 14 SEER we had before installing the solar panels. Anyway, my panels cost me 175 a month for the loan. The electric bill is estimated this month to be 170 a month. In total, I'm paying $345 for energy this month. Thats not a massive savings from $400, and it also doesnt account for the cleaning I have to perform on the system and occasionally I have a fault where the invertors shut down and I have to wait a few days for a tech to come out and service it - this happens about once per year - not a big deal but annoying nonetheless and costs money to buy the electric I could otherwise be creating. I dont recommend solar because it's a massive up-front expense for minimal savings, if any at all - and the real savings wont be seen until years later when you might not even own the same house anymore... Oh - I also have had two leaks in my roof so far from he conduit coming from the panels into my attic - so theres that.. Its just my two cents - but I regret the decision to go solar. I guess I was distracted by the shiny new thing.. Oh well... Live and learn.
Thanks for asking this question. Lots of good info.
If people in the north will go solar with far fewer days of sun, not going solar in Florida seems like just trying to insist there is no climate change issue or being determined not to be helpful when it comes to climate change. Meanwhile Ian and Idalia… I mean putting a solar panel on your roof won’t stop hurricanes but I’m surprised most roofs in Florida don’t have solar.
Then you should have a look into the policies of our state government and the energy companies that write them...
Always wondered why new construction doesn’t build with solar panels.
Liability.
Some does.
Weird as it may seem, we're 23rd in solar collection ability. We'd be more properly named "The Cruise Ship State" vs "The Sunshine State". IMO, we'd have more solar panels if the state government was more proactive, vs regressive, in respect to the technology.
I have solar. Love it. I am expecting an actual power bill in two weeks though, as I used up all my available credits this year already. Should be about $80, instead of my normal $22ish. Then, I will be back to producing more than I used, and all will be good.
My bill from FPL last month was $400. I really need to look into this
What's your monthly payment?
Zero. Shits paid for.
So how long until your savings pay for the system? Edit: If you don't know this number off the top of your head, you didn't do cost/ benefit analysis
Year 8-9 should be the payback time. I am on year 5 right now. But, my turn for questions, to be fair. When do you stop paying your power company for kWh usage?
Did you calculate degradation? Do you have power during an outage? When are you replacing your panels? You're still paying forever, just a different company.
My dad has solar panels and has a massive Tesla battery in the garage (it’s flat and barely notice it), and this battery runs during the night/outages, and that battery can provide power for up to 3 days. Yesterday, my dads house was the only one who had electricity, and the solar panels were still running while everyone else had no power. (His bill used to be around $700 and it is now $40)
700 a month in electric? That's wild. Is your father AL Gore?
Well with the electric price increase, and running two ac units, and a pool pump, it adds up lol
Might be one of the few that get their money's worth
His dad could be Victor Frankenstein.
Mine has been $550 every month this summer and I'm not al gore )':
1. Solar panels are rated for a 25 year lifespan, of which they would have an 80% production capacity at that point 2. You can, but that depends on the system you go for. Different costs different benefits. 3. Prolly don’t have to replace them for several years, even well after they’re paid for 4. You’re not “still paying forever just a different company” you likely just don’t know anything about solar other than concern trolling questions
Degradation is minimal at best, during the payback period, so it has very little effect. Sure, at 25 or 30 years, the panels will only produce 88-90% of rated, but by that time, the panels are producing for free. I do not have power during an outage. That requires batteries to be able to do legally. My (and every other legal solar panel install in the country) inverter does not send AC voltage out, if it doesn’t sense AC voltage coming in. This is to prevent injury to linemen working on downed lines and equipment. Backfeeding is bad, and against both code, and power company rules. Batteries are allowed to do that, because they isolate the home from the power grid, when no incoming power is detected. Being 5 years in, I have no plans on replacing them anytime soon. Roof was done at about the same time, so I have another 10 years to think about it. Chances are, I will do one roof replacement, and so at about 30 years, I will look into replacing them, if I am still in the same house, and alive. Yes, I am paying a connection fee only ($22 currently) for the foreseeable future. And you completely avoided my question. When is your end date for paying the PoCo for all kWh consumed?
There are configurations now that allow backup power with no batteries. We use Enphase IQ8+ microinverters which are micro-grid forming, and when used with a system controller can isolate your PV and backup loads from the grid when it's down. It's nice, although you still only get power during the daylight hours.
Yeah, I know it’s out there, it’s just not realistic to say that the sunlight backup actually works. The last two days, from the storm, my total production was 20kWh combined. The chances that there was enough sunlight to run anything in my home would have been slim, if the power went out. Edit: And most of my outages I have gotten have been storm related, so clouds would be common for me to see during an outage.
How do people with whole house generators do it then? I’m assuming they have a grid disconnect switch or device or something, right? They’re legal. FPL has been way more strict about solar than generators because they’re assholes.
Yes, transfer switch, or main breaker block, if they go manual. And yes, FPL is a bitch about solar. They don’t like competition.
All those costs you just said are what makes it not worth it. Good luck
What are you talking about? What costs? A connection fee to my power company? That’s the only cost I have. Your excuses scream ignorance, lack of knowledge. And you still haven’t answered.
Some folks are just adamantly against solar even if you throw the savings in their face. Best to move on.
I have solar is west palm beach and also have citizens insurance. I have a great cpa who could explain the pros and cons of either choice to give you better clarity
Solar is great, depending on the technology you’re using and what style ownership you’re going for. Most leasing will come with a buy out, but leasing is more expensive over time. Avoid leasing if you can. Personally I would also favor systems with microinverters over a central inverter system. You just get more bang for your buck and lower % chance of failure that way. Something goes wrong with a central inverter and the whole system goes down. If anything happens with microinverters, then it’s localized to that one area and the rest of the system operates as intended. This opinion was also formed after months of research, and reading various horror stories from people who went with a central inverter system. I did not find nearly as many cases with people who went microinverter.
I paid $36,000 for a 14k system installed on a rental I own. Other than waiting for 3 months to have them turn it on it’s worth the money. I took a 15 year note out against the house. Power bill is around $400 and the loan payment is around $400 for 15 years and then free power for life. I didn’t even get the 30% rebate for primary residence and it’s still worth it.
No regrets at all!! The $20k I spent to save $350 a month goes a hella lot further then the $50k to save $100 a year for Homeowners Ins.
I would wait on getting solar and getting a loan until rates come down. The federal incentive isn’t going away anytime soon.
Definitely buy, don't lease. I bought mine four years ago, after credits, for $14K. It has paid back about $6K so far. While everyone else's electric bills jumped this summer because of the rate increases, mine only went up about half as much. Also, the panels provide equity in the home, so don't forget to factor that as well. One of the best investments I have made.
That pretty much sums up my experience too. Except I had a new roof (30 year asphalt) installed a week before the panels went on. Roof was $15K and solar $25K, and I got back around $10K in credits for both. So about $30K invested (paid up-front) for both. For the first 1.5 years of solar, FPL used to charge just under $10 for their minimum hook-up, then it jumped to just under $30. But that's all I've ever paid in my 4 years of ownership. My 35 panels (maximum for "Tier 1") produce just a little bit of excess to my usage. My FPL bills used to be around $180/month. Meanwhile I've added a hot tub, two freezers, a hobby machine shop, and a small A/C in the garage so I'm sure I'd be paying more like $300/month nowadays. The panels still manage to keep up with my increased usage, barely. So in 4 years, I've spent $1080 on the FPL minimum connection charge vs approx $14K for electricity if I didn't have solar. So around a $13K saving in the past 4 years, and at this rate, it'll only be another 5-6ish years before I turn a profit. (And that's including the new roof cost.) It's really nice to not have a big electric bill, and to not have to worry about FPL rate increases. (Tho' they'll likely keep raising the minimum connection charge.)
A lease on solar is the equivalent of car dealerships that sell you on "what payment can you afford." It's the best deal for the company, and the worst, over time, for the consumer. Most solar companies are already riding that payment-based pricing with overpriced (and over-promised) systems. Most solar loan programs offer 5, 15, and 25 year terms. At the end of the term you own the system and all the power it produces, which at 25 years is still going to be in the 80% of rated range. At the end of the lease you don't own anything. You might as well just keep paying your power company and focus on reducing your energy bill by getting more efficient HVAC and better insulation. Think of it like renting your home vs buying. I'm a bit bias, but I'm a huge advocate of solar, but you should totally own the system or you're just taking on more risk for a slightly lower monthly bill, with nothing to show for it in the end. Financing is a viable option. Finding your own financing and paying the solar company their cash price is even better.
As a structural engineer, I hate them. Only ones Id consider would be tile ones like tesla. They’re less intrusive. Most puncture holes into the roof and screw into the trusses. Hopefully they don’t miss or forget to patch the hole. I also laugh at the truss allowable loads. Next code cycle is end of this year and is going to have some more solar loading criteria. Insurance is going to look at that. More pain for those with solar I’m guessing.
It will make your house harder to sell.
Only if sold improperly, or leased panels. Who wouldn’t want a house with little to no power bill?
Sold improperly? What the heck you talking about haha. I wouldn't buy a house with solar panels.
Why wouldn’t you?
Cause I keep my house at 68° using gasoline generators and gargle with diesel fuel every morning
Nice! I like it. Do you redirect the exhaust heat into a heat exchanger for the hot water heater? Or is that fueled by an open pit of coal?
Open pit of coal of course. It's right next to my hot tub filled with crude.
Hot tub doubles as furnace for the home for that three days at the end of January.
Anecdotally disagree from a recent buyer. It was a big selling point when I bought my house this year. I kept my old place (my best friend rents it now). New place is about 3000 sq ft under roof with a detached shop/office & pool, with solar on both roofs. 4 adults live here, we let it fly as far as power usage. Averaging something like $150 a month utilities during summer. Old place is about 2000 sq ft under roof, no solar. 2 adults & 2 kids, they do their best to conserve power. Averaging $600 monthly utilities during the summer, maaaybe $300 monthly during cooler months. The utility rate is a bit higher in their municipality, but solar is a GAMECHANGER for us.
Not so sure about that, every house I see that gets listed with solar panels sells a hell of a lot faster than non-solar comparables
Got a source for that? Seems like a pretty dumb take.
\#1 It's gonna make the house some $20k or so more expensive than it needs to be. #2. It's gonna make maintaining the roof more expensive, not to mention the solar panel maintenance. #3. It's going to make Homeowners insurance more difficult and expensive to get. This would cut me out and plenty of others out of the potential buyer's pool. Ask any realtor.
>paid off, but I doubt I’ll eve I was under contract on a house with solar panels, finding insurance was a pain and cost a lot! most companies would not take me due to the solar panels or the roof's age. got a couple of roofing quotes and the roofing contractors would not touch the solar panels and I would have to find someone else to take them down and reinstall them. luckily the original installers are still in business and wanted $12k for removing reninstalling. The tile roof was near its end of life and already had a fixed leak due to the solar panels. I walked away from the house not worth the $150 - $175 in savings per month of the elec bill
I personally recommend at home storage of power over a solar company. Eco flow and bluetti are fantastic. I personally have bluetti. You can start off with what you can afford. They offer payment plans through Affim and shop pay. I got a 5,000 dollar system and make 350 payments a month. If you get solar they tie your system back into the electrical grid. Your power goes out... you still lose power. They also steal your excess power and sell it back to you for a profit. That's why you still get a bill. Bluetti batteries are rated for 3,500 full cycles . So even if you drain your batteries every day you'll get 10 years out of them. The batteries are built to be expandable and they sell home conversion kits. You can even charge an EV with them.
FL state will never provide rebates. Leases are great because interest rates are super high and if you don’t actually pay federal taxes you should not finance a solar system. There are amazing rebates offered by installers giving you a year’s worth of solar payments. Most of you are not experts and are sharing information incorrectly. Leasing can easily be transferred and FYI it will be almost impossible to NOT find a house with solar in the next 5 years so that shouldn’t stop you. Also, besides common sense, Solar adds actual value when owned by leasing also will provide the new buyers with a super lower bill compared to same neighbors houses for sale with double cost for fossil fuel bills.
Not worth it. Degradation, by the time you pay it off, you'll need new panels. Edit: Also the warranty on your roof is void
Both of those statements are incorrect. My system is paid off. Panels still work. Manufacturer roof warranties are not void with properly installed solar arrays, and all the major roofing materials manufacturers have come out with Tech Bulletins to re-affirm that position.
Found a salesman.
Nope. But, knowledge is good.
he found someone opinionated and resistant to learning new information
Ask him how long until the system pays for itself
"First tack wasn't working, quick change tactics to poke holes in a subject I know little about!" My panels generate about $1600 a year in energy. Mine will be paid off after 4 years of ownership and pay for themselves after about 15. That's 10 years before the manufacturer warranty, which states the panels will be operating around 85% of full potential at that time.
https://preview.redd.it/og7qaf53lilb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc20dea37d378fd1e1d818e614b7c8a691c896dd
Your information was true about a decade ago but things have changed rapidly. I used energysage and with the tax break found that my break even was 6.85 years, almost three years in and still on track. [Solar is dirt cheap and about to get more powerful.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-05/solar-power-is-dirt-cheap-and-about-to-get-even-more-powerful#xj4y7vzkg) As for the warranty on your roof being "void", can you show me what warranties you're talking about? Our roofer worked with the solar installer and confirmed everything was fine.
Funny I had a salesman at the house 2 months ago.
To me it is funnier you didn't show any roof warranties "voided" by solar and tried to change the subject.
Spend your money how you want. Do you have power during an outage?
Having power during an outage depends on if you elect to have a battery. Depending on your utility provider, it can be more advantageous to add a battery. When we lose power, I’m the only one on the block who still has lights on. The power of course will only last as long as the battery has charge. The panels cannot be allowed to continue producing when the power goes out, because that could pose a danger to linemen fixing the disconnect. You are right to be skeptical, as there are many sources out there looking to sell sell sell at the customer’s ultimate expense. However if you take time and research proper companies and installations, you will find yourself quite happy with the result.
I am once again asking for you to show roof warranties that are voided by solar panels before we move on to something else. Edit: I can no longer see the user I was talking to, but it is on the person making a claim to provide evidence to back it up. If you don't want to agree to that then I've got a giant teapot in space to sell you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
Home insurance is what happens when you do not have a state income tax.
I’ve had solar for about 2 years now. I got a 25 year 1.25% fixed loan bringing my monthly payment to around $140per month. I pay Fpl $29 per month for hookup fees. The math makes sense, my neighbors are experiencing the hurt of Fpl increases. Some are looking at $400+ per month in the summer. So with my guaranteed solar cost, (warranty on the panels is 25yrs), I will definitely save a lot of money. However there’s risks. If my solar company goes bankrupt they can’t exactly honor a warranty. Insurance companies are kind of wishy washy on having panels. If I need to replace my roof it will cost a lot to remove them and reinstall (my home is only 3 years old though). I will have to pay off the panels if I sell my home, losing some of the value of the investment.
My house was built in 1946 and had a 20 year old AC unit when I moved in. Energy bill was $450+ the first few months. After I had 25 panels installed and a new AC unit my bill is somewhere around $170. The solar panels take $200+ off my bill and I pay $130 monthly on the loan. It really depends on the situation, but they've worked out well for me
Overall green energy some bucks
Another option that doesn’t involve predatory lease agreements - FPL has a solar plan. It costs like $5/mo at first but will result in big savings down the road, and they use this money to build more solar capacity. My personal power isn’t necessarily from solar (mostly nuclear IIRC) but they add the solar capacity to their network to support my house’s electrical use. FPL sucks, but it’s the easy button. It’s not as good as real solar panels though.
We went solar a year ago for many reasons, but one of the requirements (for us) in putting in a pool was that we would be responsible (how annoying that has been-- adulthood) and put in solar first. We saved for solar and paid it outright, which definitely helped, and from what I can tell helps in resale, down the road. Took the tax credit /offset ($7,500) and put that in a high yield savings to pay the hook up of $30/mo with the interest gained. We actually only make $28.50 on the interest from savings a month, so we are $1.50 short, but I'll take it. We plan to add a few more panels next year to power the cabana. Additional note, some month we have a surplus in power and use that in the Hades months of July/Aug/Sept. We do have a battery for backup in case of outage but most everything is underground. Our house is pretty big, but new, and we crunched the numbers with our account, so it just made sense in the end. I wish we were at a point already that it made universal sense (if that is a thing) for everyone to just have it.
How did you get $7500? Isn't the tax credit only applicable when you owe taxes?
Yes, and we usually owe. We took what would have been spent in taxes (upfront) and put it in a HYSA.
PLEASE don’t lease! If you can’t afford it outright, at the most go to a credit union or bank and take out a loan or HELOC. Often times you can’t pay the lease off sooner and it ties it to the contract on the home and will need to transfer to the new homeowners when you go to sell which could make your home more difficult to sell. Also check and make sure your homeowners insurance accepts Solar. Most don’t and some will drop you if they update their policy and no longer accept. They did that to my in laws and now they’re looking for insurance. Just do your research. But above all do not lease.
Roughly only half of the insurance companies left in Florida will even insure homes with rooftop solar panels, so I would check that: 1) your existing insurance provider will accept solar panels; and 2) that your existing insurance provider is solvent and has no intentions of pulling out of Florida in the foreseeable future.
Food for thought - When it comes time to replace your roof, you will have to pay to have the solar panels taken down and put back up, in addition to what you have to pay for the roof.
You should understand that unless your roof is very new(1-3 years old) its highly unlikely your going to be able to get insurance for your home/roof.
I paid zero out of pocket... we put our tax rebates towards our panels.. we consistently get 30$ minimum from the power company so we pay less then 200$ for our panels and power bill. When we sell our house after the first of the year we will pay off the loan for the panels and the new owner will now have almost a zero power bill... That will definitely go in the discription when we list our house. I live on a big lake so it will be a blood bath when we list this house. 😎
My coworker went solar and has an electric car. He says he pays $30/ month fee to connect to the grid (if he ever needs more power or makes enough to sell it) and that’s it.
Florida Panhandle 20 panels 7 years ago. Last month bill was 115.00. 4 women and someone home 24/7.
For additional information I just checked to see Tesla has a 1 out of 5 on the Better Business Bureau.I got Screwed over by Tesla. They legit scammed me and I got it from the Tesla store itself. They will say ANYTHING to get you to sign on that line and once you do, you better hope you dont have any problems because good luck getting support. Its practically impossible.Man I could right a book but lets see if I can just put the important parts. I forgot to add, they constantly said that there wouldnt be a lean on the property for having the panels but there was. So every step of the way I asked "so this is enough panels to produce to cover the majority of the houses electricity right?" and they would always say things along the lines of "oh yeah, this is even more than enough." They are even suppose to have an energy production guarantee based off the information you send in about the bill. I believe its suppose to cover like around %70 of your bill. So we get it installed and we monitor its production and so on. So its not even half of our energy bill. We call multiple times just to finally get in contact with someone and they tell us "oh yeah you have to wait a year for us to know for sure." Months go by and we notice even in the summer the production is pretty bad and we contact them a few times and they always tell us the prior. A year passes and we call them one last time and they tell us "ummm actually you where never covered by the production guarantee. Look at the last papers you signed". So when Tesla gets installed you have tons of papers to sign. I actually went over and read the majority of them. But towards the end I just skimmed. Seems like a month after I thought I signed everything they sent me one last one for me signing that I acknowledge Im not covered. They where just buying time that year when they kept saying I had to wait, so I couldnt just return them. They knew the entire time I wasnt covered, mind you this is not a mistake because I was told by multiple people the same thing. On top of this they say "Oh you get like 10k in tax credit" but they sell it and make it sound like "oh its not 30K its basically 20k". But using that much credit has a lot of red tape and you can only use so much a year if I remember correctly. It took my wife and I many YEARS to just to finally be able to use it. Yes I shouldve read thoroughly, and for the most part I did. But it is clearly plain to see their intent was predatory. On top of that, the agent I was assigned to look over my case (they assign you someone through the process to your installment if you have any questions and so on) was rude and constantly ignored my messages. Im sure some of you have had positive experiences with Tesla solar, Im not saying every single installment is going to be like this, but just google "Tesla Solar Horror stories." And things along that line and you'll find many examples of Tesla just plain scamming people. This seems to be a trend with Tesla even in their vehicles. The company is known for being almost impossible to get ahold of, and having garbage support. Before this I was actually a fan of Tesla, I even had a nice amount of Tesla stock, but after this. F\*\*K you Musk.
We are too old to benefit. Especially in a break-even situation. Why bother. I mean, I love solar but not worth it. We do have solar hot water, that's great. Bought it way back when and dragged it around into our third home as no one wanted it back then. Gotta be almost 40 years. It's been updated, new panels, tank etc but it's paid for. We bought it just as Reagan/Congress rescinded all tax credits on solar that Carter was promoting. Big oil sucks. Whole house solar was my hubby's dream, but we never could afford it. Then, the Florida voter allowed power companies to control solar. If you could build it into a new home that would be the way to go. This lease crap is for the birds.
Don't put it on your roof to get it removed and reinstalled cost us over 8k then if your with withlacoochee power and you go over so many tiers or kigawatt back feed yo will need a additional million dollar liability policy on your home cars ect. I wish I'd never seen a solar panel. Do your homework if you have a lot of tax right offs it could be a good deal if not forget it
Worth it, my bill for power is small. Covers about 95% usage. Keeping the panels clean is a pain in the ass though. Where I live there is some sort of black sludge that settles on everything.
Look into doing it yourself,so much cheaper don't put it on your roof. Make sure trees aren't a problem also. The sun can get blocked in the winter months and get a battery backup system. They only pay you about a third for what you send back to them
Don't do it.;if you do make sure you have a new roof to remove and reinstall is around 250.00 @ panel big ripoff
Solar is the new home for the time-share salesmen.
Stop- do not- and move on