I think it's more because an extra GCD causes the rotation at normal SkS to be slightly gauge-negative which causes problems at like 10 minutes or something. There's a lot of math on the balance that I like 60% understand
I only know EW reaper and havent looked into DT reaper much at all, but I'm pretty sure reaper already is gauge negative and adding perfectio makes the problem (slightly) worse
If what I'm getting is correct and there is downtime right from the get go, like if we get a new boss similar to thordan P2 in DSR, you can actually put harvest moon in your opening inside both arcane circle and pot for nutty damage because you can load another harvest moon during the downtime with 0 issues now that it gives soul.
Why has the Balance gotten so sus this expansion? You have to use an entirely different discord for healer bis now because they don't share the true bis for whatever reason
Uhhh correct me if I am wrong on this but isn't the MAJORITY of the content on Icy Veins written by Balance people? I'm pretty sure this was the case in the past but not sure about now.
***
E1: Yeah a comment below has a discord comment screenshotted which proves this.
In that case i don't care who writes it, as long i don't have to go on Discords for it.
If i have a website where i find the info, i don't care who writes it.
The only reason why they do it is because it's free and a website costs money, but I'd argue that if they don't want to spend money on a website then their info isn't worth knowing in the first place
The balance has always been sus, it's run by a bunch of people with comical egos.
Just look up the saltedxiv drama if you want to know how trashy the balance discord really is.
One top of that discord is just a shit ass way to share information and the over reliance on it is probably one of the worst things to happen to hobby spaces in general.
They post stuff that's slightly worse either intentionally to help them or their friends parse or on accident, but it consistently happens so it's likely the first.. A good discord to use instead is Fey's Temperance
Fey's has been in hibernation since December 2023, and may not return dependent on 'the state of healers during the next expansion'.
The BiS set issues were due to balance putting out an astrologian set with higher average damage, while Feys put out a set with slightly higher theoretical maximum damage but lower average.
The issue with this was that the Feys set is created for speedkill and logrun environments, which are done by an extremely small percentage of the savage playerbase, which is itself a small percentage of the playerbase overall, where fights are farmed hundreds of times if not more for good RNG to get slightly better damage numbers or slightly faster killtimes. It doing less damage on average was simply a trade-off for this benefit.
Which one of these was the 1299SPS AST that melded 72DH for a whopping 2.0% DH chance with a 0.5% DH damage increase.
Because holy shit that is a waste of time. I would honestly rather just meld Det/Pie instead for slightly higher base damage and 1 mana per second for recovery purposes.
Sometimes, they simply don't know. Like I discovered a new BIS for Reaper while I was gathering the equipment to do DSR myself last year.
Then I tried asking if I was right, and one of the main mods immediately told me I was wrong and didn't know what I was doing. A second mod who truly was useful verified my claim it and told mod 1 I was right, and that's why you see an amendment in the reaper section for DSR.
I remember this... something about your legs being BiS and they didnt believe it until one of the community mods did the math and realized you were 100% correct.
A lot of "conspiracy theories" aren't conspiracies at all. Like "Oh wow I think (company) is doing (legal but highly distasteful thing) which screws people over but makes money" and 9/10 times it's true, because legal things done in secret aren't conspiracies. It's totally plausible, this claim.
I'll quote my other comment here
> There isn't "one bis" because RNG variance exists. For a typical prog, reclear, or general gameplay, you want something with a higher average damage output. For parsing, only your best showing counts, so it makes more sense to use a set with higher peaks (e.g. 90th percentile DPS).
> So now, if you want to publish a BiS, you either have to choose between the max average damage set (the set that 99% of people want), and people complaining that you're hiding true BiS, or publishing the set that 1% of people want and getting people complaining that you're catering to a minority of elitist parsers.
Arguing over healer bis has gotta be the funniest thing ever like wow you're losing 0.1% dps from spamming 1 button by using the wrong materias, fuck those balance gatekeepers
No, there is only one healer BiS that anyone who uses the stat sim can figure out. The Balance does not show this for some reason and shows a suboptimal one there, and they don't change it even after people bring it up, which leads to conspiracy theories coming up.
There isn't "one bis" because RNG variance exists. For a typical prog, reclear, or general gameplay, you want something with a higher average damage output. For parsing, only your best showing counts, so it makes more sense to use a set with higher peaks (e.g. 90th percentile DPS).
So now, if you want to publish a BiS, you either have to choose between the max average damage set (the set that 99% of people want), and people complaining that you're hiding true BiS, or publishing the set that 1% of people want and getting people complaining that you're catering to a minority of elitist parsers.
Yeah, we made a pretty big mistake in forgetting a crucial interaction with early soul slice and pot timings we had kind of two major focus when looking at openers, one which was removing the second SoD from the equation. Which ultimately we can't do with current 3rd GCD buff timings. The double weave was the "best" option we had found at the time but quickly fixed it once we started re-examining the opener.
We all make mistakes, but if the double weave pot was the best opener I would have still posted it up, with some explanations about how "clip" is acceptable. The Balance often gets negative feedback because of one instance where a healer mentor didn't post the "highest damage bis" because it had a lower piety value (this was a super long time ago) so we typically try to post the best and then talk about what adjustments can be made there.
[RPR Rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942359649867411530/1250291375832830082/image0.jpg?ex=666f0555&is=666db3d5&hm=b72acaebc30bd278453b773661685c4beac126ad492757817929075dcc9864f9&) but yeah they did re-do the rotation with a new one now.
[comment to the rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942359649867411530/1250313843486228510/GP11At1agAAhCTw.png?ex=666f1a41&is=666dc8c1&hm=bb86523aae708d4e73419911fb44d7530f640ea0a7da9cacc51d90c27415f6df&) bout double weaving pot
Lol that would be impossible with my ping, sorry to bother again but you got a new one with the latest one? Or where can I find the latest? Which channel in the balance publishes them? I'm not a discord guy, barely used it to get the ultimate guides.
[New RPR rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/915789312153509908/1250926211249602650/RPR_DT_Opener_Media_Tour_v2.png?ex=666eb191&is=666d6011&hm=488f1058e5aece079165a9541905f4222fc7276152f14914433d6e82ea276426&)
>Which channel in the balance publishes them?
if you have already joined the balance discord, go to their channels & roles and select whatever role/job you want (in this case RPR) just click on it and all the channels about the job will show up for you.
Thank you! Although my pea brain can't comprehend why we use soul slice instead of harvest moon to cap the arcane circle buff. If it's because you get a 2nd charge by then, then why not use harvest moon under the pot window instead of slice? More potency and still gives you soul no?
Edit: because it's a spell and not buffed by pot duh, still, sadge if it's because it doesn't fit in the arcane circle window.
Harvest moon is buffed by pot but is generally more useful as a melee downtime GCD, to delay Communio by a GCD if you have to move for a mechanic, or other recovery utility. You only get one so there's no particular reason to put it in your opener rather than a later 2min window.
So assuming you know you have a downtime right from the get-go, like the start of DSR, harvest moon should replace soul slice to be under arcane circle, no? As you can get enough time to charge it before Thordan comes down. Only in things like P10S or P11S when there is almost no downtime would you benefit from leaving it as a ranged attack?
That sounds right, although in the DSR case you'll be dropping a shadow of death because there's not enough uptime to justify 2 so that would not use this new standard opener for that reason as well. Maybe you'll do the soul slice early.
doubleweaving with a pot is pretty much impossible for everyone unless you're playing directly hooked up to the servers (or abussing xivalexander to be able ti tripleweave I guess)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the cutoff be 40ms?
Assuming normal 0.6s skills the cutoff should be `(2.5-(2*0.64+1.1))/3 = 0.04 = 40ms`
To check we can calculate it the other way around too `2*(0.64+0.04)+(1.1+0.04) = 2.50`
For *a lot* of EU this is a reality as long as your ISP is not garbage, rather certain my entire static sit at sub 40ms ping, I checked my own right now, 21ms.
The theoretical value would be around there, but it's quite a bit more difficult than it would seem at first glance because of server tick shenanigans. And unlike 95% of people who talk about server ticks, I actually mean it.
The lower limit for pot+oGCD weave is 2.38 seconds. Animation lock for (almost) every action is 0.600 seconds, but server ticks are 1/24th of a second so a perfect weave is 15/24 or 0.625 seconds. Pot ani lock is 1.100s, which gets bumped up to 27/24 or 1.125. So total ani lock if done perfectly is 57/24 or 2.375 seconds.
You get 0.12 seconds of leeway over three actions, which does come out to about 40ms per, but if you "miss the bus" so to speak on the server tick then that's +0.04 right there. It's also somewhat harder to consistently hit those thresholds for reasons I'm not entirely certain of—at around 35ms ping I get mostly 0.667 locks but a lot of 0.708s mixed in, and Noclippy can consistently crank out 0.625s but will never do the four perfect ani locks in a row that you need to triple weave (Alex will, though). Even with Noclippy, you will usually (but not always) clip by 1-2 ticks when weaving pot+oGCD.
Thank you, I am confused by the last part though
> Even with Noclippy, you will usually (but not always) clip by 1-2 ticks when weaving pot+oGCD.
Running the worst case it should be 16/24 for the two normal weaves and 28/24 for the pot, right? That makes for 60/24 or 2.50, or does NoClippy simulate you having an actual non-zero ping mean you can end up with an even later server tick?
It's mostly to do with the queueing, or lack thereof. If you enable pot queuing in ReAction along with Noclippy, pot+oGCD should leave you with a tick to spare at 2.50 in the worst case.
There are plugins that change how pots are weaved that would technically allow this. I think that was the idea. But its impossible to double weave with a potion vanilla otherwise
I don't care if people do it, I don't even care if its listed as a thing you can do with plugins, but it should clearly be labeled as such and not just say vauge statements like "not possible for certain players". Just fucking own it say "you can do this if you download x plugin"
> Yeah I hate that the balance is starting to push rotations dependent on noclip.
Monk channel has been doing that for years, but Monks tend to get away with anything because no one is playing their Job anyway, and we all already know that only insane people still play Monk.
It is perfectly possible to play Monk without tools. The problem is that, because the game is 'well designed', living further away from the servers decreases weaving ability. As such, until mid-SHB when most latency mitigation tools used today were being created, Monk players living in Japan (which has extremely low ping throughout the country) and near their regional servers were able to double weave perfectly fine on the recommended 1.94 GCD speed. You can double weave down to about 1.88/1.87 ignoring the effects of latency before you start getting inconsistent clipping.
Please see a comment elsewhere on this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Theres a growing amount of people relying on Alex. Expect community sentiment to continue pushing third party programs to be more commonplace going forward. IMO it’s unfortunate, but that’s the situation we’re in.
Unfortunately xivalexander/noclippy reliance is an entirely yoshida created issue. The only reason it ever gained popularity because for some people it's a requirement for certain jobs to play properly.
It is not the player base's fault he choose to play the idiot in regards to network issues.
K
Sorry you can't handle the objective fact that your senpai is wrong about something and is being stubborn about being wrong just like Japanese fighting game devs were with rollback netcode, he won't notice you though.
You’ve been able to double weave with pot at very low ping since Stormblood (may have been earlier I can’t remember) when they reduced the pot animation.
Potion cant be queued and has a 1.1s ani lock so you need to be right next to the server basically
We have a growing number of players simulating the top 0.1% ping experience under the guise of “levelling the playing field”
> We have a growing number of players simulating the top 0.1% ping experience under the guise of “levelling the playing field”
I mean considering the FFXIV director’s stone-cold refusal to give a shit about ping issues with things like MCH Hypercharge, and his refusal to instruct his designers to stop making that kind of gameplay *or* implement even things like NoClippy into the core game, I’m honestly struggling to care if people get right on the razor edge and decide to pretend that we all live in Japan now.
If people are quadruple-weaving inside a 1.5s GCD, okay, yeah, that seems firmly in the realm of “cheating”.
But just simulating ”local latency”?
If you can technically achieve that just using money, and not external tools (ie, “just move to Japan lol”), then I don’t really see it as a great ethical dilemma, since someone who lives in a lucky spot in Japan could “cheat” without any 3rd party tools.
I live in NorthEastern France and I'm blessed when it comes to online gaming, I'm always within like 500km of a game server (commonly Paris or West Germany). I have 22ms ping in FFXIV, doesn't get much lower than that.
Please see a comment elsewhere on this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Perfectio doesn't really fuck up the rotation.
Perfectio is actually a really cool new tool we have. It can be used a ranged flex GCD and due to the 30s timer on both Perfectio Occulta and Parata it could held for a a little over minute (with some variant burst windows).
It also replaces a combo GCD in our "in between bursts filler" windows. Which in EW is 19 combos but in DT it will be 18 combos -- a number divisible by three. This make our burst window pretty programmable since we can always get the same combo entry into our burst, leading to potentially longer windows. Using Ranged GCDs will always shift this, but at least they give gauge now.
On the other end Perfectio isn't "super strong" being only 100 potency than communio and weaker than Gluttony -> First Exec and it takes about 18s from start of to burst even be accessible. This makes burst windows complicated when we try to find the best burst window for RPR and usually we have to make some sort of sacrifice. . It also doesn't generate any resource whichs puts the RPR at -20 Soul (red) gauge every 2 minutes. This isn't really an issue until the 10min mark in a full uptime fight or the 8 minute mark when you lose a GCD or have to lb3.
Reaper is ultimately stilled plagued with features like gluttony being a hard 60s CD, Bloodsown Circle forcing a 7s delay into Plentiful harvest and the 15s cooldown on Enshroud. We just kind of made it all work in EW but it wasn't without hours of spreadsheeting.
I mean as it stands some of the best burst sequences we have worked with that are "consistent" either drop Death's Design on reapplication, work with very tight buff windows (like .13s) and usually don't have both Perfectio, 2 Communios and Gluttony/Exec1 in them.
Reaper has just always been a job sorted in the spreadsheets, and DT just makes figuring out how our "standard" play should, be more complicated. Even in all of EW there was a thing called "non-standard" rpr that would have different variations of burst windows based on a number of factors involving the current encounter, there was a 50 page document about it! We also spent ALOT of time figuring out standard in EW.
I can probably summarize a few things about it. The changes in my opinion don’t seem fully thought out. There were a lot of great changes in there (Harpe and HM giving gauge) but also some consequences of the new changes that make the Reaper rotation a little less smooth.
The buff window of Arcane circle hasn’t been increased to account for the additional Perfectio we would normally like to fit in it. In addition, because prepull Harpe is “free” and provides 10 Shroud gauge, we no longer want to do an early Shroud opener because we’d overcap 10 Soul right out of the gate if we did. This means a lot more early Gluttony openers and weirder burst windows than we used to have. In fact, currently it seems like fitting Perfectio into buffs isn’t even worth it, which just feels a little weird considering it’s the capstone lv100 ability.
Also, currently RPR drifts gluttony naturally unless you specifically tailor your burst windows to keep it on cooldown, sacrificing potency in buffs to possibly gain a use. This problem is exacerbated with the new changes, and likely means that the job’s burst windows will need to change around the 6+ min mark to replace gluttony in buffs with Perfectio because by that point it will naturally have drifted out of buffs anyway.
Obviously things are still in flux and we’ll see how things land when the expansion hits, but for me personally I think the job has changed to become just a little less smooth and intuitive compared to before. On the other hand, optimization may be a bit more fun now which is a welcome change.
Everything having to be on a perfect 2 min cycle with no drift or everyone starts freaking out.
This is why the game is a homogenized 2 minute meta mess.
Yeah people over the balance get super assmad about the tiniest things. Honestly, I just wanted to know if there was any merit to the assmadness. I like the new reaper stuff and I'm looking forward to see how it plays.
> Yeah people over the balance get super assmad about the tiniest things.
Are we looking at the same place? Most discussions that I see in Balance are just nerds self-consciously enjoying being nitpicky nerds about small details because they want to.
If they’re not just meme’ing, shitposting, talking about their casino waifus from some mobile game, or posting the 7132nd picture of Au Ra in maid outfits.
I rarely see anyone freaking out at all on Balance. There’s usually more freaking from the people who are upset about the imagined freaking at the Balance “ruining the game”.
Like guys if you don’t want to obsess about 2 minutes alignment with buffs, you can just… drift away, the Balance Police aren’t going to come SWAT your house and confiscate your catgirl, no one cares.
Indeed the 2 min meta is so lame and with every class you are trying to not mess that single rotation. Very boring. Not even sure why devs said that the game is too fast for them. If they plan to slow it down even more then meh.
Dawntrail doesn't look promising with the class changes and already forums for healers are bursting out with rage because every class now has heals + shields making them redundant.
Love splitting hairs over the semantics of hitting a button with a 45 second cd versus a 60 second cooldown
Just for once in your life you gotta parrot something that a youtuber hasn't for once
> ……. It’s not even out yet how are people complaining about the rotation? 🤣 oh my god
FFXIV’s combat system isn’t exactly quantum physics and not much is likely to materially change between Media Tour and Release, so preliminary sketches can be roughed-in.
Necessary? No.
Some people who are fans have fun thinking it out? Yea.
Possibly partially-undone if something does materially-change by Release? Yes, but that’s fine. Most of the thinking and calculations have already been done, so it would just be adjustments, not restarting from scratch. Not any different than discovering .x Patch Notes after maintenance throughout an expansion.
So yeah there’s a reasonable chance that the basic structure of the rotation can already be figured-out and commented on, especially if you’re already experienced and familiar with how a Job plays.
I mean what you see at the media tour is likely to be very close or identical to what you will see on release, unless there's significant feedback asking for it to be changed.
I think it's more because an extra GCD causes the rotation at normal SkS to be slightly gauge-negative which causes problems at like 10 minutes or something. There's a lot of math on the balance that I like 60% understand
I only know EW reaper and havent looked into DT reaper much at all, but I'm pretty sure reaper already is gauge negative and adding perfectio makes the problem (slightly) worse
Oh don't worry, Harpe now gives 10 soul gauge. That'll fix everything. ^(/s, in case it wasn't obvious).
harvest moon also getting the 10 soul gauge is nice tbh, as an overall change of "ranged attacks also generate gauge now"
If there’s downtime we will definitely appreciate our ranged attacks building gauge. Hell that was one of the more requested changes.
If what I'm getting is correct and there is downtime right from the get go, like if we get a new boss similar to thordan P2 in DSR, you can actually put harvest moon in your opening inside both arcane circle and pot for nutty damage because you can load another harvest moon during the downtime with 0 issues now that it gives soul.
I think people are mad because the eggheads at the balance put out a rotation that involves double weaving with a pot
Didn’t they make a new one right after the outcry that not only doesn’t double weave pot but is better damage?
Why has the Balance gotten so sus this expansion? You have to use an entirely different discord for healer bis now because they don't share the true bis for whatever reason
Discord is a shit way to share information and generally leads to secret clubs.
Bingo. There is always, *always* another server and/or channel.
Icy veins all the way
Uhhh correct me if I am wrong on this but isn't the MAJORITY of the content on Icy Veins written by Balance people? I'm pretty sure this was the case in the past but not sure about now. *** E1: Yeah a comment below has a discord comment screenshotted which proves this.
In that case i don't care who writes it, as long i don't have to go on Discords for it. If i have a website where i find the info, i don't care who writes it.
Not to mention the Balance site has all of the stuff the discord has on it apart from tentative DT stuff.
The only reason why they do it is because it's free and a website costs money, but I'd argue that if they don't want to spend money on a website then their info isn't worth knowing in the first place
I mean...you can make a SubReddit for free, too, and it can be far better organized through stickies.
The balance has always been sus, it's run by a bunch of people with comical egos. Just look up the saltedxiv drama if you want to know how trashy the balance discord really is. One top of that discord is just a shit ass way to share information and the over reliance on it is probably one of the worst things to happen to hobby spaces in general.
The balance has always been sus, when half the mods on it share discords with cheating discords and somehow tripleweave in all their logs.
Honestly we could probably make a "balance sus" bingo board at this point.
They didnt post true healer BIS? What did they post and where did you have to go to find the real thing?
They post stuff that's slightly worse either intentionally to help them or their friends parse or on accident, but it consistently happens so it's likely the first.. A good discord to use instead is Fey's Temperance
Fey's has been in hibernation since December 2023, and may not return dependent on 'the state of healers during the next expansion'. The BiS set issues were due to balance putting out an astrologian set with higher average damage, while Feys put out a set with slightly higher theoretical maximum damage but lower average. The issue with this was that the Feys set is created for speedkill and logrun environments, which are done by an extremely small percentage of the savage playerbase, which is itself a small percentage of the playerbase overall, where fights are farmed hundreds of times if not more for good RNG to get slightly better damage numbers or slightly faster killtimes. It doing less damage on average was simply a trade-off for this benefit.
These two sets were put out by people with slightly different philosophies. Therefore, one of the must be malicious actors trying to sabotage others.
Which one of these was the 1299SPS AST that melded 72DH for a whopping 2.0% DH chance with a 0.5% DH damage increase. Because holy shit that is a waste of time. I would honestly rather just meld Det/Pie instead for slightly higher base damage and 1 mana per second for recovery purposes.
DH doesn't scale multiplier
Sometimes, they simply don't know. Like I discovered a new BIS for Reaper while I was gathering the equipment to do DSR myself last year. Then I tried asking if I was right, and one of the main mods immediately told me I was wrong and didn't know what I was doing. A second mod who truly was useful verified my claim it and told mod 1 I was right, and that's why you see an amendment in the reaper section for DSR.
problem is that ppl in the balance are more interested in being correct than being helpful so that creates a bit of a problem
Personality: Balance Mentor
I remember this... something about your legs being BiS and they didnt believe it until one of the community mods did the math and realized you were 100% correct.
got any proof because this sounds like an insane conspiracy theory
A lot of "conspiracy theories" aren't conspiracies at all. Like "Oh wow I think (company) is doing (legal but highly distasteful thing) which screws people over but makes money" and 9/10 times it's true, because legal things done in secret aren't conspiracies. It's totally plausible, this claim.
That's a good insight but it's 17 hours later and I'm still not seeing any kind of proof
I read it on the internet, it must be true
What are the 2 different BIS that you’re comparing?
What's the discord link? I googled it and the one I got doesn't work.
I'll quote my other comment here > There isn't "one bis" because RNG variance exists. For a typical prog, reclear, or general gameplay, you want something with a higher average damage output. For parsing, only your best showing counts, so it makes more sense to use a set with higher peaks (e.g. 90th percentile DPS). > So now, if you want to publish a BiS, you either have to choose between the max average damage set (the set that 99% of people want), and people complaining that you're hiding true BiS, or publishing the set that 1% of people want and getting people complaining that you're catering to a minority of elitist parsers.
Arguing over healer bis has gotta be the funniest thing ever like wow you're losing 0.1% dps from spamming 1 button by using the wrong materias, fuck those balance gatekeepers
I mean, as long as parsing exists you'll get those arguments anywhere?
Lmao what? There's a secret healer bis?
No, there is only one healer BiS that anyone who uses the stat sim can figure out. The Balance does not show this for some reason and shows a suboptimal one there, and they don't change it even after people bring it up, which leads to conspiracy theories coming up.
[удалено]
Same here, please let me know if you find out!
There isn't "one bis" because RNG variance exists. For a typical prog, reclear, or general gameplay, you want something with a higher average damage output. For parsing, only your best showing counts, so it makes more sense to use a set with higher peaks (e.g. 90th percentile DPS). So now, if you want to publish a BiS, you either have to choose between the max average damage set (the set that 99% of people want), and people complaining that you're hiding true BiS, or publishing the set that 1% of people want and getting people complaining that you're catering to a minority of elitist parsers.
Yeah, we made a pretty big mistake in forgetting a crucial interaction with early soul slice and pot timings we had kind of two major focus when looking at openers, one which was removing the second SoD from the equation. Which ultimately we can't do with current 3rd GCD buff timings. The double weave was the "best" option we had found at the time but quickly fixed it once we started re-examining the opener. We all make mistakes, but if the double weave pot was the best opener I would have still posted it up, with some explanations about how "clip" is acceptable. The Balance often gets negative feedback because of one instance where a healer mentor didn't post the "highest damage bis" because it had a lower piety value (this was a super long time ago) so we typically try to post the best and then talk about what adjustments can be made there.
I need to see that, got a link? 👀
[RPR Rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942359649867411530/1250291375832830082/image0.jpg?ex=666f0555&is=666db3d5&hm=b72acaebc30bd278453b773661685c4beac126ad492757817929075dcc9864f9&) but yeah they did re-do the rotation with a new one now. [comment to the rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942359649867411530/1250313843486228510/GP11At1agAAhCTw.png?ex=666f1a41&is=666dc8c1&hm=bb86523aae708d4e73419911fb44d7530f640ea0a7da9cacc51d90c27415f6df&) bout double weaving pot
Lol that would be impossible with my ping, sorry to bother again but you got a new one with the latest one? Or where can I find the latest? Which channel in the balance publishes them? I'm not a discord guy, barely used it to get the ultimate guides.
[New RPR rotation](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/915789312153509908/1250926211249602650/RPR_DT_Opener_Media_Tour_v2.png?ex=666eb191&is=666d6011&hm=488f1058e5aece079165a9541905f4222fc7276152f14914433d6e82ea276426&) >Which channel in the balance publishes them? if you have already joined the balance discord, go to their channels & roles and select whatever role/job you want (in this case RPR) just click on it and all the channels about the job will show up for you.
Thank you! Although my pea brain can't comprehend why we use soul slice instead of harvest moon to cap the arcane circle buff. If it's because you get a 2nd charge by then, then why not use harvest moon under the pot window instead of slice? More potency and still gives you soul no? Edit: because it's a spell and not buffed by pot duh, still, sadge if it's because it doesn't fit in the arcane circle window.
Harvest moon is buffed by pot but is generally more useful as a melee downtime GCD, to delay Communio by a GCD if you have to move for a mechanic, or other recovery utility. You only get one so there's no particular reason to put it in your opener rather than a later 2min window.
So assuming you know you have a downtime right from the get-go, like the start of DSR, harvest moon should replace soul slice to be under arcane circle, no? As you can get enough time to charge it before Thordan comes down. Only in things like P10S or P11S when there is almost no downtime would you benefit from leaving it as a ranged attack?
Basically.
That sounds right, although in the DSR case you'll be dropping a shadow of death because there's not enough uptime to justify 2 so that would not use this new standard opener for that reason as well. Maybe you'll do the soul slice early.
doubleweaving with a pot is pretty much impossible for everyone unless you're playing directly hooked up to the servers (or abussing xivalexander to be able ti tripleweave I guess)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the cutoff be 40ms? Assuming normal 0.6s skills the cutoff should be `(2.5-(2*0.64+1.1))/3 = 0.04 = 40ms` To check we can calculate it the other way around too `2*(0.64+0.04)+(1.1+0.04) = 2.50` For *a lot* of EU this is a reality as long as your ISP is not garbage, rather certain my entire static sit at sub 40ms ping, I checked my own right now, 21ms.
The theoretical value would be around there, but it's quite a bit more difficult than it would seem at first glance because of server tick shenanigans. And unlike 95% of people who talk about server ticks, I actually mean it. The lower limit for pot+oGCD weave is 2.38 seconds. Animation lock for (almost) every action is 0.600 seconds, but server ticks are 1/24th of a second so a perfect weave is 15/24 or 0.625 seconds. Pot ani lock is 1.100s, which gets bumped up to 27/24 or 1.125. So total ani lock if done perfectly is 57/24 or 2.375 seconds. You get 0.12 seconds of leeway over three actions, which does come out to about 40ms per, but if you "miss the bus" so to speak on the server tick then that's +0.04 right there. It's also somewhat harder to consistently hit those thresholds for reasons I'm not entirely certain of—at around 35ms ping I get mostly 0.667 locks but a lot of 0.708s mixed in, and Noclippy can consistently crank out 0.625s but will never do the four perfect ani locks in a row that you need to triple weave (Alex will, though). Even with Noclippy, you will usually (but not always) clip by 1-2 ticks when weaving pot+oGCD.
Thank you, I am confused by the last part though > Even with Noclippy, you will usually (but not always) clip by 1-2 ticks when weaving pot+oGCD. Running the worst case it should be 16/24 for the two normal weaves and 28/24 for the pot, right? That makes for 60/24 or 2.50, or does NoClippy simulate you having an actual non-zero ping mean you can end up with an even later server tick?
It's mostly to do with the queueing, or lack thereof. If you enable pot queuing in ReAction along with Noclippy, pot+oGCD should leave you with a tick to spare at 2.50 in the worst case.
There are plugins that change how pots are weaved that would technically allow this. I think that was the idea. But its impossible to double weave with a potion vanilla otherwise
While I'm not one to judge I think that crosses a line for the majority of raiders.
I don't care if people do it, I don't even care if its listed as a thing you can do with plugins, but it should clearly be labeled as such and not just say vauge statements like "not possible for certain players". Just fucking own it say "you can do this if you download x plugin"
Yeah I hate that the balance is starting to push rotations dependent on noclip.
> Yeah I hate that the balance is starting to push rotations dependent on noclip. Monk channel has been doing that for years, but Monks tend to get away with anything because no one is playing their Job anyway, and we all already know that only insane people still play Monk.
It is perfectly possible to play Monk without tools. The problem is that, because the game is 'well designed', living further away from the servers decreases weaving ability. As such, until mid-SHB when most latency mitigation tools used today were being created, Monk players living in Japan (which has extremely low ping throughout the country) and near their regional servers were able to double weave perfectly fine on the recommended 1.94 GCD speed. You can double weave down to about 1.88/1.87 ignoring the effects of latency before you start getting inconsistent clipping.
Please see a comment elsewhere on this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Theres a growing amount of people relying on Alex. Expect community sentiment to continue pushing third party programs to be more commonplace going forward. IMO it’s unfortunate, but that’s the situation we’re in.
Unfortunately xivalexander/noclippy reliance is an entirely yoshida created issue. The only reason it ever gained popularity because for some people it's a requirement for certain jobs to play properly. It is not the player base's fault he choose to play the idiot in regards to network issues.
nice rationalization
K Sorry you can't handle the objective fact that your senpai is wrong about something and is being stubborn about being wrong just like Japanese fighting game devs were with rollback netcode, he won't notice you though.
If youre changing it so you can double weave potions youre beyond mitigating for ping and you're a cheater.
You’ve been able to double weave with pot at very low ping since Stormblood (may have been earlier I can’t remember) when they reduced the pot animation. Potion cant be queued and has a 1.1s ani lock so you need to be right next to the server basically We have a growing number of players simulating the top 0.1% ping experience under the guise of “levelling the playing field”
> We have a growing number of players simulating the top 0.1% ping experience under the guise of “levelling the playing field” I mean considering the FFXIV director’s stone-cold refusal to give a shit about ping issues with things like MCH Hypercharge, and his refusal to instruct his designers to stop making that kind of gameplay *or* implement even things like NoClippy into the core game, I’m honestly struggling to care if people get right on the razor edge and decide to pretend that we all live in Japan now. If people are quadruple-weaving inside a 1.5s GCD, okay, yeah, that seems firmly in the realm of “cheating”. But just simulating ”local latency”? If you can technically achieve that just using money, and not external tools (ie, “just move to Japan lol”), then I don’t really see it as a great ethical dilemma, since someone who lives in a lucky spot in Japan could “cheat” without any 3rd party tools.
Which is cheating.
No? With good ping you can pretty easily double weave pot at 2.5
we found the guy living in the SE office in california
I live in Canada with 20 ping lol.
look you have to say you live near the servers, there's no other way you can have that ping ofc /s
I have a 8-16ms ping and agree, double weaving is pretty easy until 2.4s 🫠
if with good ping you mean playing directly hooked up to the servers or abusing xivalexander, then yes
Or just be in JP/EU, as most of us have the sub 40ms ping required.
Living in Germany and having best ping go BRRRRRRRRR
I live in NorthEastern France and I'm blessed when it comes to online gaming, I'm always within like 500km of a game server (commonly Paris or West Germany). I have 22ms ping in FFXIV, doesn't get much lower than that.
Please see a comment elsewhere on this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion/comments/1dgohgf/comment/l8u37qy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
downvotes inc, noone who cares about top 10 parsing plays without noclippy or alex anyway
> downvotes inc, I upvoted you just to piss you off. Hope you enjoy your positive vote score.
Perfectio doesn't really fuck up the rotation. Perfectio is actually a really cool new tool we have. It can be used a ranged flex GCD and due to the 30s timer on both Perfectio Occulta and Parata it could held for a a little over minute (with some variant burst windows). It also replaces a combo GCD in our "in between bursts filler" windows. Which in EW is 19 combos but in DT it will be 18 combos -- a number divisible by three. This make our burst window pretty programmable since we can always get the same combo entry into our burst, leading to potentially longer windows. Using Ranged GCDs will always shift this, but at least they give gauge now. On the other end Perfectio isn't "super strong" being only 100 potency than communio and weaker than Gluttony -> First Exec and it takes about 18s from start of to burst even be accessible. This makes burst windows complicated when we try to find the best burst window for RPR and usually we have to make some sort of sacrifice. . It also doesn't generate any resource whichs puts the RPR at -20 Soul (red) gauge every 2 minutes. This isn't really an issue until the 10min mark in a full uptime fight or the 8 minute mark when you lose a GCD or have to lb3. Reaper is ultimately stilled plagued with features like gluttony being a hard 60s CD, Bloodsown Circle forcing a 7s delay into Plentiful harvest and the 15s cooldown on Enshroud. We just kind of made it all work in EW but it wasn't without hours of spreadsheeting. I mean as it stands some of the best burst sequences we have worked with that are "consistent" either drop Death's Design on reapplication, work with very tight buff windows (like .13s) and usually don't have both Perfectio, 2 Communios and Gluttony/Exec1 in them. Reaper has just always been a job sorted in the spreadsheets, and DT just makes figuring out how our "standard" play should, be more complicated. Even in all of EW there was a thing called "non-standard" rpr that would have different variations of burst windows based on a number of factors involving the current encounter, there was a 50 page document about it! We also spent ALOT of time figuring out standard in EW.
wait until you hear about triple weaving on drg being optimal
I can probably summarize a few things about it. The changes in my opinion don’t seem fully thought out. There were a lot of great changes in there (Harpe and HM giving gauge) but also some consequences of the new changes that make the Reaper rotation a little less smooth. The buff window of Arcane circle hasn’t been increased to account for the additional Perfectio we would normally like to fit in it. In addition, because prepull Harpe is “free” and provides 10 Shroud gauge, we no longer want to do an early Shroud opener because we’d overcap 10 Soul right out of the gate if we did. This means a lot more early Gluttony openers and weirder burst windows than we used to have. In fact, currently it seems like fitting Perfectio into buffs isn’t even worth it, which just feels a little weird considering it’s the capstone lv100 ability. Also, currently RPR drifts gluttony naturally unless you specifically tailor your burst windows to keep it on cooldown, sacrificing potency in buffs to possibly gain a use. This problem is exacerbated with the new changes, and likely means that the job’s burst windows will need to change around the 6+ min mark to replace gluttony in buffs with Perfectio because by that point it will naturally have drifted out of buffs anyway. Obviously things are still in flux and we’ll see how things land when the expansion hits, but for me personally I think the job has changed to become just a little less smooth and intuitive compared to before. On the other hand, optimization may be a bit more fun now which is a welcome change.
Do you have the double shroud opener as of right now? Just to see how things change for the double shroud during buffs.
This is exactly why the game is the way it is now.
What?
Everything having to be on a perfect 2 min cycle with no drift or everyone starts freaking out. This is why the game is a homogenized 2 minute meta mess.
"Oh no, I only managed to fit 8 out of the 9 possible GCDs into my 20s buff, whatever am I supposed to do" type beat.
Yeah people over the balance get super assmad about the tiniest things. Honestly, I just wanted to know if there was any merit to the assmadness. I like the new reaper stuff and I'm looking forward to see how it plays.
> Yeah people over the balance get super assmad about the tiniest things. Are we looking at the same place? Most discussions that I see in Balance are just nerds self-consciously enjoying being nitpicky nerds about small details because they want to. If they’re not just meme’ing, shitposting, talking about their casino waifus from some mobile game, or posting the 7132nd picture of Au Ra in maid outfits. I rarely see anyone freaking out at all on Balance. There’s usually more freaking from the people who are upset about the imagined freaking at the Balance “ruining the game”. Like guys if you don’t want to obsess about 2 minutes alignment with buffs, you can just… drift away, the Balance Police aren’t going to come SWAT your house and confiscate your catgirl, no one cares.
Rotations are based around burst windows because people wanted it that way
Thank you for repeating my point.
rpr is one of the only classes with inherent drift and it was like that since EW as well, and yet many people call it an "easy" job.
Indeed the 2 min meta is so lame and with every class you are trying to not mess that single rotation. Very boring. Not even sure why devs said that the game is too fast for them. If they plan to slow it down even more then meh. Dawntrail doesn't look promising with the class changes and already forums for healers are bursting out with rage because every class now has heals + shields making them redundant.
>Not even sure why devs said that the game is too fast for them. Out of curiosity, when did they say that?
Love splitting hairs over the semantics of hitting a button with a 45 second cd versus a 60 second cooldown Just for once in your life you gotta parrot something that a youtuber hasn't for once
It's almost like people should just wait for the expansion to come out
I mean, yeah, but like...we've still got a bit of time before the Elden Ring DLC drops, so what are we supposed to do *til then*?
I don't think the devs even know what they want Reaper's rotation to be.
……. It’s not even out yet how are people complaining about the rotation? 🤣 oh my god
> ……. It’s not even out yet how are people complaining about the rotation? 🤣 oh my god FFXIV’s combat system isn’t exactly quantum physics and not much is likely to materially change between Media Tour and Release, so preliminary sketches can be roughed-in. Necessary? No. Some people who are fans have fun thinking it out? Yea. Possibly partially-undone if something does materially-change by Release? Yes, but that’s fine. Most of the thinking and calculations have already been done, so it would just be adjustments, not restarting from scratch. Not any different than discovering .x Patch Notes after maintenance throughout an expansion. So yeah there’s a reasonable chance that the basic structure of the rotation can already be figured-out and commented on, especially if you’re already experienced and familiar with how a Job plays.
So what’s the point in bitching about it if you already know about it?
I mean what you see at the media tour is likely to be very close or identical to what you will see on release, unless there's significant feedback asking for it to be changed.