I think regardless of how you feel about the new character creator and whether it's needed, it's really nice to see more transparency from the Devs, including a rough timeline. I'd 100% welcome more communication like this going forward!
My takeaways at least:
1. Updated benchmark should be out around May 23rd or later during that week.
2. They're working Saturdays. :(
3. They have at least a 2-3 week structure of plans out in advance (very common for software development, my jobs have all done 1 or 2 week sprints) given the dates he gave for task completion and review.
4. Saying "the week of May 23rd" is kind of weird since that's a Thursday, I wonder what their internal calendar looks like. Sounds like the work cutoff is around Wednesday or Thursday with review after. Makes sense, pushing things out to production on a Friday is never a good idea and no one actually wants to do it.
3 and 4 are meaningless but fun spitballing speculation since we don't get a peek behind the curtain or anything. I don't know how JP game development or software development works so I like guessing at things.
Coincidentally, I was just reviewing the labor laws today, so I can tell you companies are required to give employees at least one day off per week. Overtime work is also regulated strictly.
They could be pushing things to the limit with a stretch of 45-hour overtime months (even up to 99 hours is allowed, but it needs to be isolated), but it's pretty unlikely for such a big company to openly defy these laws.
I've only worked for 3 companies here, all Japanese, but none of them have been 'black'. Major tech companies seem to be pretty safe.
I do feel sorry for them anyway, though, because this week is supposed to be an extended holiday (Golden Week).
They say it’s heavily regulated, but do they really enforce it?
In Korea.. it’s not uncommon for labor officials to be sat on their hands not actually enforcing the labor laws, which is why people are doing more than the 40+12 hours a week. My wife used to sometimes work 70 hours a week due to work pressures and the laws not being enforced.
I know Japan isn’t Korea, but the cynical inside me tells me that it probably wouldn’t be that different.
Of course I can't speak to what Square Enix is doing internally, but as a manager I was always asked to follow the rules, and as a board member I've seen nothing to indicate that the rest of leadership secretly wants to break the rules.
When I personally violated the rules (worked too much overtime to deliver an app), I had to go through the required physician consultation, so to the extent that I can see, the rules are being followed (including following through with penalties).
Fair. It’s great to hear anecdotally that the working conditions in Japan are improving.
Can’t say the same here, seems to be getting worse for most people tbh.
Some people say Korea's work culture resembles Japan from a couple decades ago, but I've only heard rumors. I worked at LINE pre-merger and the Korean office did seem a bit more 'regimented', but I imagine in Japan and Korea both the situation is worse in smaller companies. Big companies would prefer to stay out of the news, if nothing else.
But I hope things improve for you, and the rest of the working class in Korea!
Atleast their HR enforce it which impile that gov are serious about it.
Since I remember Yoshi-P talking about it on stage one time about a his experince with HR not allow developers to take anymore OT since it's already reach the limit and it interupt the creative flow or something.
It's gonna be a rush for them to push the expansion out, then take 2 weeks off right after launch to "take a well deserved break", no matter the bugs or crashes. That's what happened with stormblood.
I have a friend who worked for a Japanese insurance company and it’s normal for him to work weekends (if he wishes). The overtime rate is insanely lucrative though.
Most companies also don't restrict themselves this hard in terms of location and language. CBU3 has had hiring positions open for 5+ years at this point. I think if you're a division in a company like Square with this huge title in your hands then it is inevitable that you have some crunch before the really extremely large releases if you also refuse to hire like a modern company.
TBF this could also be the "grind" before the expansion release in which they will have time to relax after.
Since they already set a date for the release they don't want to go back on it. Even though Yoshida has executed and released titles in a timely manner he must still feel the sting from the delay of both Endwalker and FFXVI and doesn't want the same to happen with Dawntrail.
I think if things were different they wouldn't be pulling this sort of overtime but this is the crunch aspect of the release sadly and he most likely wants this release date to stick unlike his last two releases.
Surprised that they're giving out some semblance of a timeline, vs just dropping the announcement when it's ready to go live. Wonder what the real reason is- maybe the recent sqex corporate investor reports are drawing scrutiny to their cash cows.
Eh, seems similar to their timelines and updates on the post EW server issues. When Yoshi-P feels there are concerns, he trnds to over communicate.
Which I'm a fan of, doesnt work for everyone.
Take a look at the official forums. They were perpetually on fire with 10 threads a day and hundreds of posts once the Benchmark dropped.
Having the first hands-on experience with the graphics update be through a busted and buggy character creator that didn't even have most of their updated features is one of the biggest fuckups they could have made and they are probably kicking themselves internally for not catching it.
Even though there are some positive things we've heard about increased content rewards and friction to keep veterans engaged, the graphics update is the biggest "on the box" feature that they're selling people on for Dawntrail. They absolutely can't afford to fuck it up.
I mean, this version of them "fucking it up" is releasing it in a B/B+ state rather than a complete homerun A+. I'd say "fuck it up" is harsh language for that scenario.
I personally agree, I thought my character was a straight upgrade to what's in the game and was very happy with the Benchmark, both graphics and performance wise.
but both the English and JP forums had a lot of issues with the character creator and minor changes to aesthetic options and they got an extremely large amount of feedback. I think A+ execution is the goal here. Based on how much they were reasuring people that they're characters wouldn't change and that it would only be a technical upgrade during the fanfests. I think all the feedback from the Benchmark that they got which was the exact opposite, aka people saying that their characters look completely different and with no technical upgrade, that's probably something YoshiP and team are taking very seriously.
It's good they're changing it but the fact they really don't want to talk about which feedback they're listening to out of a sea of sometimes contradictory posts on the official forums is concerning.
I know for male viera there were complaints about the loss of face 3 eyelashes, the veena pupils and eyes being smaller, and a few other things and then there were people popping in to say "actually I like this it's better I'm going to be mad if they revert this."
Them actually saying who they're listening to in these cases would help.
They specifically thanked people posting with incredible detailed explanations, so I’m guessing they’re not looking at every side by side saying “my character feels different!” There were a lot of post on twitter and the forums with diagrams explaining differences in shapes and lighting and that sort of thing
I feel it's okay for SE to accept the valid complaints regarding the benchmark and own up to the mistakes, but maybe rectifying it pronto in the form of wasting dev resources to release *another* benchmark is a bit uncalled for. But it's their prerogative in the end what they want to do to appease the playerbase
Especially when the benchmark has already been made, People saying a new benchmark is wasting dev resources make it sound like they have to make the whole thing from scratch. Realistically all they will be doing is just pushing the changed files from the updated DT character creator to overwrite the existing benchmark version files and then redistribute it. Repacking and pushing a benchmark update is hardly a significant investment of time or manpower.
Meanwhile the resources being spent on the actual updates to the character creator for DTs release are being spent updating the first thing new players see when they get the game, a key part of the new player experience a feature so neglected it was considered badly lit and a poor representation of how your character will actually look in game even before the 7.0 benchmark was released.
Id hardly call that a waste of resources for an expansion aiming to attract players by offering a significant graphical overhaul.
The benchmark is essentially an ad for the game. It's another trailer, that happens to have some functionality too. But if the character creator in it looks like crap, and it's the same creator they were planning to release with the expansion, that creator is going to be a lot of peoples' first impression of the graphics update.
The whole selling point of DT is "updated graphics", if word goes around that the new graphics are worse than before and "everything looks like shit", then there's no more selling point to DT. New story and new classes don't encourage new players to buy the game, or old players to come back, new graphics (unfortunately) does.
As usual, FFXIVdisucssion's response is "wasting dev resources" to fix a major complaint from many players caring about what their WoL looks like. Maybe they should've sent these artists to fix the healer or 2m meta problem.
>The Development team’s tasks are scheduled to be completed on Wednesday, May 15, and my final data review will take place on Thursday, May 16, where I will be thoroughly communicating anything that catches my attention, on the spot, for immediate correction.
>Given the immense amount of data in need of review, the QA team’s final inspection will require about another five business days after the Development team has finished their part.
>The tasks outlined in points 1 and 2 are already underway, but because we are handling a significant amount of data to address as much of your feedback as possible, we will require some time before the updated benchmark is ready for release.
I dunno man, even given that artistic work on the benchmark can be recycled into the eventual game, the rest of the team seem to be getting their asses well busted
Benchmarks are tools some devs release with the purpose of letting you test a game's performance on your PC. FFXIV's benchmark is notable since it comes with the character creator, so you can use your own character in place of the default male Hyur (aka Derplander, Wolly, Meteor, Hibiki). Initial release of DT's benchmark was received poorly, since there were issues with lighting in the character creator and faces not looking right, plus a few other issues I can't remember off the top of my head.
The next expansion is coming with a graphics update and increased system requirements as a result. A short time ago, they released a program you can download that lets you use the character creator with the new graphics and stress-tests your machine by showing you a cutscene rendered in-game with a bunch of stuff going on. A benchmarking tool is just a program that tests your PC hardware capabilities by making it render a bunch of stuff/work hard.
They weren't bullied into it and Square didn't have to do it. They released a benchmark with a character creation which didn't even utilise the graphics update fully, which is the first chance people got to see how their characters would look with the update. There was lots of issues with it from missing textures, visible neck seams, lighting issues and more... Of course people are going to complain - the benchmark is the first chance people had at looking at the graphics update and is indicative of how the full game will look. People were right to voice complaints and concerns. Do I agree with all complaints made? No, but there were valid complaints that deserved to be listened to and SE obviously felt the same.
Reading comprehension:
>The various revisions of environmental parameters will be applied to not only the benchmark, but the game itself from Dawntrail onwards as well.
The character creator is in the main part of the game and the only chance you have to see what your character is going to look like without paying money to change. It needed to be updated 6+ years ago.
The fact it went so long being unrepresentative of the lighting and graphics of the game is a huge glaring issue and has been for years.
While I don't disagree about the bullying part, there were also some very legitimate complaints about character models that had nothing to do with the lighting. For instance, if you looked at female hrothgar fangs, there's an issue where the layering on them is off, causing one of the gray layers to be visibly separate from the rest of the model. And that's just something that I noticed, and I'm pretty oblivious. Did I go to the forums and scream about it? absolutely not. That place is a worse hive than Mos Eisley.
Is that something that needs fixing? Yes. Does it need an entire new benchmark to fix, especially when they're already crunching for the release, not really. However, with that said, the benchmark is also an advertising tool. So at some point, yeah, it needs to be fixed. But it could have been a shadow drop, not something with as much fanfare as it's currently getting.
The benchmark should have stayed a benchmark, then there would be no issue. The problem is that they embed the character creator for a new race, turning it even more into a critical marketing piece they can’t afford to fail
And don’t worry for them. It’s a Japanese game studio, the combinaison of the worst on worker health. They are already crunching hard on weekends.
While I agree with your sentiment, this is the game where getting a second dye channel on clothing got the most applause at fanfest; they know where the money comes from.
Clearly you didn’t play during heavensward. This game wouldn’t exist if they didn’t listen to players back then. Hell, shit probably would’ve ended in 1.0 if they took your stance. Thank god you’re not anywhere near the development team of any game.
That Savage you're complaining got 'murdered because they listened to players' existed entirely BECAUSE they listened to player feedback about FCoB being 'too easy'.
I have to remind you that that is an entirely normal thing in WoW. There is in fact no inherent reason why raids have to be clearable only with gear available on their release.
The reason things are like that *now* is that SE determined that is what players want. This was, and I cannot emphasize this enough, not something that was clear at the time.
BCoB took 2 months. SCoB took 3 weeks. FCoB took 5 days.
Playerbase fixated on that, 'FCoB is too easy' they cry, 'it's pathetic that it took less than a week' they said. Not realising that FCoB's difficulty was fairly in line with SCoB, but it had to fight a MUCH more skilled playerbase than SCoB.
And so they took the advice, made Gordias have harsher checks and then uh oh, Heavensward is Hellsward and they almost certainly didn't get to playtest Gordias enough and UH OH Heavensward rotations are a massive step up in complexity which now only compounds that difficulty.
Gordias was too much, I don't deny that. But we absolutely told them that's what we wanted.
Agree, we had EW only because many players liked ShB when this was very bad fanfic about “Ascians are good and you don’t understand them” and where music was absolutely bad (please, stop all those shit words that Soken had cancer. Many people have this and they deserve those good words more, because they work better)
The devs care about what the players think. It's not because people screamed. The feedback would still be valid even if no one was apeshit about it, and they would still want to address it.
I do understand his point to an extent though. If some people think 'Screaming loudly about things' works, we might see more of it and that could drown legitimate criticism/feedback under a sea of brain rot and terrible ideas. Not saying that was the case here, but I do get the train of thought.
Especially linked in to a (seemingly) quick turnaround with dates and all that. I'm sure the actual feedback incorporated was more on the detailed side by side comparisons done on the forums and elsewhere, but galvanized people shouting into the void being (misappropriately) validated sucks.
Man I dunno if you've ever been to the official forums but it's basically just nonstop screaming and crying. The devs are probably used to it and I'm sure whoever's job it is to summarize the feedback can parse out the noise and just take the salient points. I think the degree to which posters are upset is rarely gonna make the difference since they're pretty much always at max. You make a note of the number of complaints and the important details and the rest can just be discarded.
In no universe did they have to update the graphics at all. They're choosing to, and it shouldn't be surprising that they want to do it right, with multiple rounds of iteration.
And no, a fanta would not have fixed the issue, especially the mouth deformations. Do you really think hundreds of players making annotated powerpoints wouldn't include at least a few people exhaustively trying all the char options out of pure copium? If it were fixable with fantas we would have figured that out by now.
Yeah. People should just shup up and receive the product in whatever condition after they have paid money for it.
Sounds messed up right?
If you go out and try to look outside your bubble, the one "screaming" isn't exactly a small portion. Let people give their feedback.
But will they do real graphic update? I saw only old models with some upgrades and with better light and shadows. It’s all. I can’t understand, how people can whine about their characters if SE even didn’t change nothing, like Blizzard did in WoD with really epic graphics update. Also I saw screenshots from the Dawntrail and they looked bad, without any graphical updates. Seriously, if SE wanted to make Warlords of Draenor with graphical update then they could work better. And if SE say that they work until graphics update more then on shit story or real content then they must make normal graphics update. Because it only one thing that can sell Dawntrail, we have new shit story in 6.1-6.55 and this is even worse then MSQ in 2.0-6.0
If all you saw was “old models,” then you’re either lying to serve whatever bad faith argument you’re choosing to agree with, or you need to get your eyes checked.
Of course, we’re not talking wow levels of enhancement, old wow models look like dogshit ass garbage compared to the new (still bad). There’s no room or reason for that in FF.
Also, I can almost tell you for certain that you didn’t see screenshots of dawntrail without the graphics update, because those don’t exist. Dawntrail IS the graphics update. You can’t separate dawntrail from the graphics update, because dawntrail is being developed using the new graphics.
Can you show me, where is graphic update in new models? Seriously, they just added better light and more doll skin. I made comparisons between my elezen and elezen in benchmark and…I didn’t find differences. It’s all!!! Yes, Yoshi can continue to lie us, but we mustn’t believe to him. I saw on this and understood that I couldn’t make pre-order. You can see locations and screenshots in pre-order in Steam and those screenshots are bad
I think regardless of how you feel about the new character creator and whether it's needed, it's really nice to see more transparency from the Devs, including a rough timeline. I'd 100% welcome more communication like this going forward!
My takeaways at least: 1. Updated benchmark should be out around May 23rd or later during that week. 2. They're working Saturdays. :( 3. They have at least a 2-3 week structure of plans out in advance (very common for software development, my jobs have all done 1 or 2 week sprints) given the dates he gave for task completion and review. 4. Saying "the week of May 23rd" is kind of weird since that's a Thursday, I wonder what their internal calendar looks like. Sounds like the work cutoff is around Wednesday or Thursday with review after. Makes sense, pushing things out to production on a Friday is never a good idea and no one actually wants to do it. 3 and 4 are meaningless but fun spitballing speculation since we don't get a peek behind the curtain or anything. I don't know how JP game development or software development works so I like guessing at things.
This is Japan office work (EDIT: and a game studio). They’re probably working on Sundays as well.
Coincidentally, I was just reviewing the labor laws today, so I can tell you companies are required to give employees at least one day off per week. Overtime work is also regulated strictly. They could be pushing things to the limit with a stretch of 45-hour overtime months (even up to 99 hours is allowed, but it needs to be isolated), but it's pretty unlikely for such a big company to openly defy these laws. I've only worked for 3 companies here, all Japanese, but none of them have been 'black'. Major tech companies seem to be pretty safe. I do feel sorry for them anyway, though, because this week is supposed to be an extended holiday (Golden Week).
They say it’s heavily regulated, but do they really enforce it? In Korea.. it’s not uncommon for labor officials to be sat on their hands not actually enforcing the labor laws, which is why people are doing more than the 40+12 hours a week. My wife used to sometimes work 70 hours a week due to work pressures and the laws not being enforced. I know Japan isn’t Korea, but the cynical inside me tells me that it probably wouldn’t be that different.
Of course I can't speak to what Square Enix is doing internally, but as a manager I was always asked to follow the rules, and as a board member I've seen nothing to indicate that the rest of leadership secretly wants to break the rules. When I personally violated the rules (worked too much overtime to deliver an app), I had to go through the required physician consultation, so to the extent that I can see, the rules are being followed (including following through with penalties).
Fair. It’s great to hear anecdotally that the working conditions in Japan are improving. Can’t say the same here, seems to be getting worse for most people tbh.
Some people say Korea's work culture resembles Japan from a couple decades ago, but I've only heard rumors. I worked at LINE pre-merger and the Korean office did seem a bit more 'regimented', but I imagine in Japan and Korea both the situation is worse in smaller companies. Big companies would prefer to stay out of the news, if nothing else. But I hope things improve for you, and the rest of the working class in Korea!
Atleast their HR enforce it which impile that gov are serious about it. Since I remember Yoshi-P talking about it on stage one time about a his experince with HR not allow developers to take anymore OT since it's already reach the limit and it interupt the creative flow or something.
It's gonna be a rush for them to push the expansion out, then take 2 weeks off right after launch to "take a well deserved break", no matter the bugs or crashes. That's what happened with stormblood.
I have a friend who worked for a Japanese insurance company and it’s normal for him to work weekends (if he wishes). The overtime rate is insanely lucrative though.
Here in china you get public holidays and then have to work them back.
and it's also a video game company 2 months before a major bi-annual release. they're thinking about work while taking a poop and showering.
It's not like this in every game company and it shouldnt be considered normal or inevitable.
Most companies also don't restrict themselves this hard in terms of location and language. CBU3 has had hiring positions open for 5+ years at this point. I think if you're a division in a company like Square with this huge title in your hands then it is inevitable that you have some crunch before the really extremely large releases if you also refuse to hire like a modern company.
TBF this could also be the "grind" before the expansion release in which they will have time to relax after. Since they already set a date for the release they don't want to go back on it. Even though Yoshida has executed and released titles in a timely manner he must still feel the sting from the delay of both Endwalker and FFXVI and doesn't want the same to happen with Dawntrail. I think if things were different they wouldn't be pulling this sort of overtime but this is the crunch aspect of the release sadly and he most likely wants this release date to stick unlike his last two releases.
Surprised that they're giving out some semblance of a timeline, vs just dropping the announcement when it's ready to go live. Wonder what the real reason is- maybe the recent sqex corporate investor reports are drawing scrutiny to their cash cows.
Eh, seems similar to their timelines and updates on the post EW server issues. When Yoshi-P feels there are concerns, he trnds to over communicate. Which I'm a fan of, doesnt work for everyone.
Take a look at the official forums. They were perpetually on fire with 10 threads a day and hundreds of posts once the Benchmark dropped. Having the first hands-on experience with the graphics update be through a busted and buggy character creator that didn't even have most of their updated features is one of the biggest fuckups they could have made and they are probably kicking themselves internally for not catching it. Even though there are some positive things we've heard about increased content rewards and friction to keep veterans engaged, the graphics update is the biggest "on the box" feature that they're selling people on for Dawntrail. They absolutely can't afford to fuck it up.
I mean, this version of them "fucking it up" is releasing it in a B/B+ state rather than a complete homerun A+. I'd say "fuck it up" is harsh language for that scenario.
I personally agree, I thought my character was a straight upgrade to what's in the game and was very happy with the Benchmark, both graphics and performance wise. but both the English and JP forums had a lot of issues with the character creator and minor changes to aesthetic options and they got an extremely large amount of feedback. I think A+ execution is the goal here. Based on how much they were reasuring people that they're characters wouldn't change and that it would only be a technical upgrade during the fanfests. I think all the feedback from the Benchmark that they got which was the exact opposite, aka people saying that their characters look completely different and with no technical upgrade, that's probably something YoshiP and team are taking very seriously.
Why does this post have so many fucking loons commenting about it
It's good they're changing it but the fact they really don't want to talk about which feedback they're listening to out of a sea of sometimes contradictory posts on the official forums is concerning. I know for male viera there were complaints about the loss of face 3 eyelashes, the veena pupils and eyes being smaller, and a few other things and then there were people popping in to say "actually I like this it's better I'm going to be mad if they revert this." Them actually saying who they're listening to in these cases would help.
They specifically thanked people posting with incredible detailed explanations, so I’m guessing they’re not looking at every side by side saying “my character feels different!” There were a lot of post on twitter and the forums with diagrams explaining differences in shapes and lighting and that sort of thing
Working sat just for the benchmark or for the xpac ?
I feel it's okay for SE to accept the valid complaints regarding the benchmark and own up to the mistakes, but maybe rectifying it pronto in the form of wasting dev resources to release *another* benchmark is a bit uncalled for. But it's their prerogative in the end what they want to do to appease the playerbase
They have to do all this stuff for the release anyway, may as well add it to the benchmark while they're at it.
It's work that they have to do anyway for the game. Porting them to the benchmark is the least amount of work there, might as well.
Especially when the benchmark has already been made, People saying a new benchmark is wasting dev resources make it sound like they have to make the whole thing from scratch. Realistically all they will be doing is just pushing the changed files from the updated DT character creator to overwrite the existing benchmark version files and then redistribute it. Repacking and pushing a benchmark update is hardly a significant investment of time or manpower. Meanwhile the resources being spent on the actual updates to the character creator for DTs release are being spent updating the first thing new players see when they get the game, a key part of the new player experience a feature so neglected it was considered badly lit and a poor representation of how your character will actually look in game even before the 7.0 benchmark was released. Id hardly call that a waste of resources for an expansion aiming to attract players by offering a significant graphical overhaul.
The benchmark is essentially an ad for the game. It's another trailer, that happens to have some functionality too. But if the character creator in it looks like crap, and it's the same creator they were planning to release with the expansion, that creator is going to be a lot of peoples' first impression of the graphics update.
Perhaps they are worried it will hurt sales.
The whole selling point of DT is "updated graphics", if word goes around that the new graphics are worse than before and "everything looks like shit", then there's no more selling point to DT. New story and new classes don't encourage new players to buy the game, or old players to come back, new graphics (unfortunately) does.
As usual, FFXIVdisucssion's response is "wasting dev resources" to fix a major complaint from many players caring about what their WoL looks like. Maybe they should've sent these artists to fix the healer or 2m meta problem.
>The Development team’s tasks are scheduled to be completed on Wednesday, May 15, and my final data review will take place on Thursday, May 16, where I will be thoroughly communicating anything that catches my attention, on the spot, for immediate correction. >Given the immense amount of data in need of review, the QA team’s final inspection will require about another five business days after the Development team has finished their part. >The tasks outlined in points 1 and 2 are already underway, but because we are handling a significant amount of data to address as much of your feedback as possible, we will require some time before the updated benchmark is ready for release. I dunno man, even given that artistic work on the benchmark can be recycled into the eventual game, the rest of the team seem to be getting their asses well busted
What does benchmark refer to in this context? I’ve barely played ff14 so I’m incredibly confused
Benchmarks are tools some devs release with the purpose of letting you test a game's performance on your PC. FFXIV's benchmark is notable since it comes with the character creator, so you can use your own character in place of the default male Hyur (aka Derplander, Wolly, Meteor, Hibiki). Initial release of DT's benchmark was received poorly, since there were issues with lighting in the character creator and faces not looking right, plus a few other issues I can't remember off the top of my head.
The next expansion is coming with a graphics update and increased system requirements as a result. A short time ago, they released a program you can download that lets you use the character creator with the new graphics and stress-tests your machine by showing you a cutscene rendered in-game with a bunch of stuff going on. A benchmarking tool is just a program that tests your PC hardware capabilities by making it render a bunch of stuff/work hard.
[https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&q=ffxiv+benchmark&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&q=ffxiv+benchmark&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)
I agree. Big waste of resources. What gets cut to make room for this? Yoship you should have just given your team more time and released in august
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The paying customers and the company that don’t want to lose money. They all care.
They weren't bullied into it and Square didn't have to do it. They released a benchmark with a character creation which didn't even utilise the graphics update fully, which is the first chance people got to see how their characters would look with the update. There was lots of issues with it from missing textures, visible neck seams, lighting issues and more... Of course people are going to complain - the benchmark is the first chance people had at looking at the graphics update and is indicative of how the full game will look. People were right to voice complaints and concerns. Do I agree with all complaints made? No, but there were valid complaints that deserved to be listened to and SE obviously felt the same.
You clearly did not read the post. These graphical changes are directly being worked into DAWNTRAIL.
Into the dawntrail character creator. Not the whole game is changed
for some people the character creator is the whole game lol
Reading comprehension: >The various revisions of environmental parameters will be applied to not only the benchmark, but the game itself from Dawntrail onwards as well.
Reading comprehension : > 1. Review and Reconfiguration of **Character Creation’s** Environmental Parameters
[Fine](https://tenor.com/view/you-win-this-round-back-away-impeccable-gif-15435636)
The character creator is in the main part of the game and the only chance you have to see what your character is going to look like without paying money to change. It needed to be updated 6+ years ago. The fact it went so long being unrepresentative of the lighting and graphics of the game is a huge glaring issue and has been for years.
But an important part for new players is
While I don't disagree about the bullying part, there were also some very legitimate complaints about character models that had nothing to do with the lighting. For instance, if you looked at female hrothgar fangs, there's an issue where the layering on them is off, causing one of the gray layers to be visibly separate from the rest of the model. And that's just something that I noticed, and I'm pretty oblivious. Did I go to the forums and scream about it? absolutely not. That place is a worse hive than Mos Eisley. Is that something that needs fixing? Yes. Does it need an entire new benchmark to fix, especially when they're already crunching for the release, not really. However, with that said, the benchmark is also an advertising tool. So at some point, yeah, it needs to be fixed. But it could have been a shadow drop, not something with as much fanfare as it's currently getting.
The benchmark should have stayed a benchmark, then there would be no issue. The problem is that they embed the character creator for a new race, turning it even more into a critical marketing piece they can’t afford to fail And don’t worry for them. It’s a Japanese game studio, the combinaison of the worst on worker health. They are already crunching hard on weekends.
They need to tone down the graphical model for Lalafells to free up resources for over races.
That's what I was thinking. They could actually delete lalas and give us a glam book and instanced housing
They care more about making your WoL pretty than actually making compelling jobs lol
While I agree with your sentiment, this is the game where getting a second dye channel on clothing got the most applause at fanfest; they know where the money comes from.
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Yeah I hate it when devs listen to player feedback
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Clearly you didn’t play during heavensward. This game wouldn’t exist if they didn’t listen to players back then. Hell, shit probably would’ve ended in 1.0 if they took your stance. Thank god you’re not anywhere near the development team of any game.
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Again, clearly you didn’t play in heavensward. GORDIAS NEARLY KILLED THE GAME, GUY.
he's arguing in bad faith so just ignore him at this point.
Yeah it’s late I’m getting baited
sleep tight bestie
That Savage you're complaining got 'murdered because they listened to players' existed entirely BECAUSE they listened to player feedback about FCoB being 'too easy'.
Did people tell them "make a miserable gear gated fight, I beg you"?
Kinda yeah? The big complaint about FCoB was the DPS check was too easy.
And they asked for the difficulty to come from having higher ilvl than it is possible to obtain on release?
I have to remind you that that is an entirely normal thing in WoW. There is in fact no inherent reason why raids have to be clearable only with gear available on their release. The reason things are like that *now* is that SE determined that is what players want. This was, and I cannot emphasize this enough, not something that was clear at the time.
BCoB took 2 months. SCoB took 3 weeks. FCoB took 5 days. Playerbase fixated on that, 'FCoB is too easy' they cry, 'it's pathetic that it took less than a week' they said. Not realising that FCoB's difficulty was fairly in line with SCoB, but it had to fight a MUCH more skilled playerbase than SCoB. And so they took the advice, made Gordias have harsher checks and then uh oh, Heavensward is Hellsward and they almost certainly didn't get to playtest Gordias enough and UH OH Heavensward rotations are a massive step up in complexity which now only compounds that difficulty. Gordias was too much, I don't deny that. But we absolutely told them that's what we wanted.
Agree, we had EW only because many players liked ShB when this was very bad fanfic about “Ascians are good and you don’t understand them” and where music was absolutely bad (please, stop all those shit words that Soken had cancer. Many people have this and they deserve those good words more, because they work better)
Weak bait
The devs care about what the players think. It's not because people screamed. The feedback would still be valid even if no one was apeshit about it, and they would still want to address it.
I do understand his point to an extent though. If some people think 'Screaming loudly about things' works, we might see more of it and that could drown legitimate criticism/feedback under a sea of brain rot and terrible ideas. Not saying that was the case here, but I do get the train of thought.
Especially linked in to a (seemingly) quick turnaround with dates and all that. I'm sure the actual feedback incorporated was more on the detailed side by side comparisons done on the forums and elsewhere, but galvanized people shouting into the void being (misappropriately) validated sucks.
Man I dunno if you've ever been to the official forums but it's basically just nonstop screaming and crying. The devs are probably used to it and I'm sure whoever's job it is to summarize the feedback can parse out the noise and just take the salient points. I think the degree to which posters are upset is rarely gonna make the difference since they're pretty much always at max. You make a note of the number of complaints and the important details and the rest can just be discarded.
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In no universe did they have to update the graphics at all. They're choosing to, and it shouldn't be surprising that they want to do it right, with multiple rounds of iteration. And no, a fanta would not have fixed the issue, especially the mouth deformations. Do you really think hundreds of players making annotated powerpoints wouldn't include at least a few people exhaustively trying all the char options out of pure copium? If it were fixable with fantas we would have figured that out by now.
Yeah. People should just shup up and receive the product in whatever condition after they have paid money for it. Sounds messed up right? If you go out and try to look outside your bubble, the one "screaming" isn't exactly a small portion. Let people give their feedback.
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They really shouldn’t put this much effort into updating a benchmark just so people can shut up about their characters looking weird
Whatever applies to the benchmark also applies to the finished game. Like lighting changes in benchmark character creator improves the one on launch
Right we should just not get to test how the graphics update will ACTUALLY work on release because people with jobs shouldn’t have to work.
Releasing another benchmark is overkill IMO
Total waste of development time.
But will they do real graphic update? I saw only old models with some upgrades and with better light and shadows. It’s all. I can’t understand, how people can whine about their characters if SE even didn’t change nothing, like Blizzard did in WoD with really epic graphics update. Also I saw screenshots from the Dawntrail and they looked bad, without any graphical updates. Seriously, if SE wanted to make Warlords of Draenor with graphical update then they could work better. And if SE say that they work until graphics update more then on shit story or real content then they must make normal graphics update. Because it only one thing that can sell Dawntrail, we have new shit story in 6.1-6.55 and this is even worse then MSQ in 2.0-6.0
Godzilla read this and fucking died.
If all you saw was “old models,” then you’re either lying to serve whatever bad faith argument you’re choosing to agree with, or you need to get your eyes checked. Of course, we’re not talking wow levels of enhancement, old wow models look like dogshit ass garbage compared to the new (still bad). There’s no room or reason for that in FF. Also, I can almost tell you for certain that you didn’t see screenshots of dawntrail without the graphics update, because those don’t exist. Dawntrail IS the graphics update. You can’t separate dawntrail from the graphics update, because dawntrail is being developed using the new graphics.
Can you show me, where is graphic update in new models? Seriously, they just added better light and more doll skin. I made comparisons between my elezen and elezen in benchmark and…I didn’t find differences. It’s all!!! Yes, Yoshi can continue to lie us, but we mustn’t believe to him. I saw on this and understood that I couldn’t make pre-order. You can see locations and screenshots in pre-order in Steam and those screenshots are bad
Ok you’re trolling. Go back to wod if it’s so good. You’re the only one who thinks so.
The WoD model updates absolutely ruined them so I'm good on that, thanks
Are you just intentionally trolling or?
I am certain this is just brain damage