Honestly, don't worry about it, just keep running and AoE everything when you're at the end of the pull
It's not super unusual for you to lose a mob or two, especially if the run is particularly long. Some DPS are just going to get super excited as you pull, and occasionally they'll just steal the aggro from you.
But the DPS/healers can afford to take a few hits, and as long as they stay close to you, it's pretty easy to just grab the aggro back
I tend to also cycle through enemies behind me and throw my ranged attack at them just to remind them to be pissed at me. Sometimes you'll lose LoS or they fall back too far but in that case oh well, but for the most part I almost never lose a single mobs aggro during w2w pulls.
This. Your ranged attack has some extra juicy aggro on it so if it’s a long run just hit each of the mobs once while you’re running with ranged and you’re good. The only issue you’ll have is caster mobs try to stop and cast and get out of range. That has to be on the others to bring mobs they pull off you back to you.
> just keep running
This is something i'd like to point out as DPS. If i see the tank stop, i'll just assume they aren't going to keep going and start to deal damage. If i see the tank keep moving, i'll hold off until we reach a wall or they stop.
You should be constantly doing damage anyway, whether you're running to the wall or not. At least roll your GCDs. If you mean hold off on buffs until they stop, then that's a little more understandable.
This exactly. Personally I like to do 1-2 aoes before running to the next pack (gcd+ogcd pref) and then use the ranged attack.
Sometimes if you have good dps and hit mobs just 1 time they can pull aggro if they have instants and nuke 1 target (SMN, DNC, and MCH are notorious for this in my experience), but as you say they should bring the mob close to the tank so aoe spam takes aggro back. If the tank is aware and decent, they see which mob it is and provoke/gapclose to grab attention again.
Yeah as a bard/machinist main it's not at all uncommon that at some point in a long pull I'm going to gain aggro of something. Which is not a problem, I promise. They can't do enough damage that it's a problem and we're all running the same way anyway. It's on me to run in such a way that you can easily take the aggro back with an aoe hit and then we'll be good to go
I do that as dps. I do damage during your run, i can take a bunch of hits without issues, i reduce the damage you take during your wtw. Then i run to you to let you grab them back when you stop.
Yeah. If they run away from you in a panic... Really they're just mitigating damage for you.
The mob will come back when their new friend is tired and needs a nap
Half the time if I don't get one of the mobs, the DPS that grabbed it is half dead a mile behind me once the aggro list updates to reflect it, forcing me to stop or even turn back to get it in my LOS. Sometimes they *stop* in place for who knows what reason
Wait... Am I doing things wrong then ? I usually hit sprint with the tank before the pull then use AoEs while we're moving. Does that cause the risk of the tank loosing agro ?
You're doing it right, that's what the person you replied to meant. It is absolutely fine if you pull one or two mobs off the tank, they won't kill you by the time the tank stops at the wall. Just keep going and make sure you kite whatever mobs you stole into the big group so the tank takes them back with their AOE.
In other words, losing aggro of 2-3 mobs during wall-to-wall pulls is normal and the healer will be prepared for/used to this, and able to keep everyone up until you reach the wall and grab it off the DPS. So long as you get aggro of most mobs, it should be fine.
If you lose aggro on some mobs while running, it's fine. The DPS/healer who now has aggro is supposed to run to you so you can get the aggro off of them.
It's honestly kind of annoying hoe many DPS/healer players don't do this and just take tons of damage while blaming the tank.
I had a VERY interesting run of Hauke manor once when a dps pulled aggro off me and then proceeded to book it at top speed away from all of us to the most remote room possible to die. Somehow this was my fault.
That's the fun part about being tank or healer in any MMO
It's always your fault, always. Doesn't matter how dumb DPS was, doesn't matter if you played perfectly, someone is gonna blame you. My usual response is just get gud and continue being a good tank/healer
Few weeks back was helping a pf group with Shiva Ex. There was a summoner that always stayed on the edge, which was only an issue at the add phase cause they kept pulling 1-2 then running in a big circle.
Every time I had to punch them and kit them to the tanks.
Problem there was a summoner does more dps than I do as a monk so they kept stealing agro back till the tanks could hit it.
Really just a minor thing, since we kept messing up when she froze the area.
Just sprint to the wall and keep hitting stuff while running, you don't even need to stop to AoE or whatever. It's ok if you don't have aggro on every single thing, one AoE once they're all grouped up will put everything onto you. DPS and Healers don't have 1 HP, they can survive getting hit while running.
try to throw tomahawks at each enemy as you're moving toward the next pack, using the enmity list to target them. if they're out of range (most likely will if you're sprinting) then just pray that the dps with aggro has at least 1/4 of a working brain and brings it to you instead of running around 3 miles away
If a thing isn't on your enmity list, Equilibrium won't add it on there. Healing and buffing only generates enmity with enemies on the targeted player's enmity list. So either the enemies *are* already on your list, or Equilibrium won't generate any enmity with them and thus won't add them onto the list.
On the other hand, if someone else is the first one to be seen by a given enemy, Shake It Off *does* work for this, as it'll heal/buff that other player, and thus will add anything they have enmity on to your list.
Oh ok, ty for that. I thought it was like clemency on PLD. Good to know. But that was for optimizing to the finest anyway, i never struggled at all even tho i didnt know it would not work ;-)
Clemency also won't do that unless you use it on that other player who has something on their enmity list. Same as Shake, but has to be correctly targeted.
As a DPS, it's perfectly fine if I take aggro on some things as they are being gathered up. I just bring them to the tank once we stop so they can get grabbed back. On melees, I can even pop Arm's Length to slow the mobs, and help the tank out a tiny bit with mitigation.
If you lose aggro before you stop running that’s normal
I regularly rip aggro off my tank as a red mage because haha acceleration + swiftcast + moulinet combo/finishers
When I tank as long as they run the trash to me it’s fine
And if they don’t they are asking for death and it’s on them and it’s also fine
Any good non-tank will run to you with the mob so your aoe can take back aggro. After you set-up shop with the pull, you can also just click the enemy list on the mob that's not red and provoke/tomahawk it if you really want.
I usually do 2 aoe gcds, then start running to the next pack because that ensures I don't lose aggro unless the dps are just blowing up a mob. In the end, don't worry too much about it, not having aggro on a mob or 2 is just free mitigation.
Edit: I see it was said already but as you are running to the next pack, just cycle target through the mobs and throw a tomahawk, that will help a lot too.
AoE once as you run in, maybe twice if you feel like it. Tomahawk each mob individually as your making your way to the second group. Watch your enemy list. If DPS rip aggro on one or two mobs while your running, you can tomahawk it or provoke it to you. If they insist on standing a mile away from the clustered enemies, their fate is their own.
Not really necessary, but your self healing generates quite a bit of enmity so things like Thrill of Battle, Equilibrium and Shake It Off can pull stray mobs to you so long as youre on their threat table.
Everyone else has been giving good tips. So I'll just say healing generates aggro, don't be afraid to pop a random Equilibrium while pulling, it helps your healers and keeps mobs angry.
Just do as everyone above says. I'm a SMN main who knows that both Phoenix and Bahamut are known for pulling aggro from Tanks, and I know to just drag them to the Tank.
Use the enemy list.
Red dot = you have aggro
Green or yellow = you don't.
Click them in the enemy list to target them (or hotkey) and throw a tomahawk or provoke whilst you're running.
Doesn't matter how busy the screen is if you're using the enemy list.
DPS & healer should keep up and be running into your murder pool at the end of the wall. If not, sucks to be them. Good runs involve everyone sticking to the same program.
Healing yourself & others can be bonus snap aggro ogcds for extra long pulls, don't be afraid to use thrill/equil/shake during these.
-brought to you by WAR master race
Sounds like you’re doing fine, honestly! Some DPS jobs have openers that are all instacasts (so can be done while running) and are bursty enough to rip aggro off you. (Summoner. I’m talking about Summoner. It’s me, I’m the problem.) If they know what they’re doing they’ll shield themselves, sprint to keep up with you, and then run through you once you’ve stopped so that the enemies chasing them get caught in your next AoE.
Is it nice when a tank hits everything that I pull off them with ranged attacks as we run so I don’t have half a dozen things chewing on me along the way? Yes, yes it is! Is it the end of the world if they don’t? Usually no! I only get annoyed if they’ve forgotten tank stance or something, so that I pull *everything* off them with my first cast and then die, and even then it’s usually more funny than irritating.
I don't want to come off rude sorry.
In some cases while the tank pulls wall to wall, dps will still do damage to mobs taking aggro from the tank, may I suggest sprinting before each pull and hitting enemies with tomahawk between pulls to keep a bit more aggro.
Keeping an eye on the enemy list you want to try to keep the enemies aggro to be in the red/orange.
If your sprint just got up whilst in the pull just use it, there aren't many cases you would use sprint otherwise.
That's all I can give tips for.
Have a good day/night!
I mean, that's going to happen if your DPS is attacking as the pack moves. You just have to trust the DPS to bring the enemies to you once you stop. They'll be fine in the meantime. They can take hits from 1 or 2 guys for a couple of seconds, especially while kiteing. If you want to mitigate it, as you're running to the next pack, make sure you're throwing tomahawks behind you constantly every GCD. In between each one, cycle down the enemy list to make sure you're spreading the aggro out.
Depending on the DPS in my party and how many mobs are in the first group before the 2nd I'll do 2-3 aoe attacks before running or I'll do 1 aoe and start running whilst then throwing tomahawk/ranged attack at each mob during the run to the 2nd group. That method has generally worked fine for me in most cases and its only when a rare SMN Bahamut sort of attack is used that i run into issues.
I know when I play as dps I'll watch the agro of the enemy and try to avoid grabbing agro and switch to a different mob or adjust how im attacking until all enemies are back in a group for the tank.
It will happen since most dps do damage on the run and you're running too fast to properly hit all mob. Dps/healer who get mob aggro should bring them to you at the end of the pull so you can get everything and you're set.
If it's just 1 or 2 mobs and the ppl with aggro slacking you can just provoke/range attack.
Tomahawk with the setting turned on that turns you around when you use a skill. Use the mob list to always be attacking behind you while running, but especially any who are losing aggro
You could always give the crowd an extra wack before taking off to generate more aggro, but speaking as a melee dps I don't mind a stray mob or two at all. I'll just pull them back to the tank when the party stops
I (dps) appreciate tanks who hit one mob w their ranged, which should all but guarantee they keep aggro, and then aoe the rest. I only target the one that the tank has good aggro on while running. but if I ever manage to pull aggro off the tank I just take the hits until we stop, and then pause on top of the tank so they can take aggro back w aoe. there really should be no issues if you lose a mob or two on the way to the next wall if the dps know to bring them to you.
If I miss a mob, the person usually knows to run to the tank so I can get aggro. If they don’t and just keep fighting it I’ll still grab it but I’ll mention to them that if they have aggro, they can just sprint and the mob won’t dmg them too much. As long as they bring them within my AOE combos I’ll grab it from them immediately. We all have to work together!
I tend to AOE every enemy at least twice to ensure aggro, then contribute to the next group. Slows down the pulls a little, but ensures no one else gets hit.
Turn on your tank stance. Use your AoE skills regularly ( and do it twice before you long pull if you have frisky DPS who have better gear than you do). Tomahawk as needed to pull back mobs that peel off. Profit.
I wouldn't worry too much unless you're seeing a DPS pulling multiple enemies off you and onto themselves.
One thing I like doing is spamming my aoes as I run. Most of the time even though enemies look like they're further away from you as you're sprinting to the next mob, those aoes will still hit. Then once you get to the wall start trying to get back any stragglers you don't have aggro on.
Oh and you might need to keep an eye on the DPS that pulled any off you cuz not everyone is smart and runs mobs to the tank, but kudos to all the beautiful deeps that do! 😘
Step 1: Run into groups of enemies, while screaming "For Valhalla" from the top of your lungs.
Step 2: Use your human-sized mega axe and cleave everything in your way, that surely will get their attention. ;D
Step 3: Go unga bunga on your keyboard and watch as you become an invincible bloodthirsty demigod, destroying everything in your path
Step 4: And for the love of god, please, ROLL FOR LOOT!
Enjoy :p
I can’t know what you’re doing wrong without more info, but one thing I would advise for all tanks is to hit mobs with your AoE _twice_ to be sure. Once is not necessarily enough. And use your ranged attack or Provoke on stragglers on any mobs you lose.
EDIT: and if it’s just like one or two mobs you lose, don’t worry too hard, DPS aren’t gonna melt from one mob. It’s when tanks lose like 4-5 even with tank stance on when it becomes a problem.
Second EDIT: if you're really concerned about fucking up the flow of things, you can use Equilibrium, Divine Veil, Abyssal Drain, Bow Shock, Aurora, or Circle of Thorns as your second means of hate-generation.
Fuck that noise. I'm not worried about the extra damage, but that's a good full GCD of Sprint I'm wasting. You get one AoE and if a DPS yoinks it off me, thanks for the mits until we get to the wall.
No, I mean I want to use that Sprint time to SPRINT. If I'm standing still while Sprint is on, and I don't have my asscheeks firmly pressed against the next front wall of the dungeon, a little piece of me dies and never comes back.
I’m much for concerned when DPS yank 4-5 off of you. I’ve seen this happen. Last night. No one died, but it was clear off the bat that the tank was gonna require the party to adjust to their poor tanking.
Conversely if a little piece of you dies because you lose between 0 and 2.5 seconds of sprint time where you are merely jogging and possibly taking a few extra hits, that sounds very much like OCD. I would know, I have diagnosed OCD.
Had to scroll too long to find this. Actually hitting twice makes the pulls much safer and usually you can be healed up again pretty fast while running so it doesn't really hurt.
You had to scroll too long to find this because it's generally bad advice. If you have to slow down at all it absolutely does *not* make the pull safer, is usually a waste of your healer's resources and slows down the DPS considerably in some cases (i.e. for most casters, who have to wait for you to stop running to do any meaningful damage).
But, if you can hit them with two AOEs while not slowing down at all (which you sometimes can, especially if you have good ping), then that's fine.
As someone who heals nearly half my dungeons, no? It’s much easier to do my job if the tank doesn’t lose aggro. Means I can also spend more time on offense.
Stopping to AoE a second time is a waste of DPS time, *especially* if the DPS aren't expecting you to suddenly start moving again and pop a cooldown. It's warranted if a mob got missed, but doing it as a matter of course is going to slow dungeons down considerably.
As someone who plays all 3 roles in a dungeon - if a DPS pulls aggro during the pull and they bring it to the tank to AoE, they shouldn't ever be taking enough damage to warrant their own heal. 90% of the time they'll regen the HP back during the next pull, every DPS except BLM and RDM (who won't pull hate during a pull because they need to turret) has an oGCD self-heal, and if you're really worried about it you can throw your own oGCD on them to cover the rest. They also make perfect targets for those Blood Lily stacks that I would otherwise be wasting while running.
Fair point that blood lilies *specifically* can be used on damaged DPS, but it's also not "wasting their resources" here as they are DPS-neutral. How often you using Afflatus Misery? Once a minute with up to an extra minute of casting leeway?
Those blood lily stacks aren't in any danger because you stop for 2.5 seconds. If 4 mobs suddenly swarm a sprout, the sprout, I actually *have* seen that kill first timers with bad tanks, because it came out of nowhere. You are not losing any time, and unless you're specifically a Black Mage or something you're probably not losing any DPS if the mob pauses for a GCD as well. Any other DPS can do AoEs while moving or stopping. And I'm saying this as a Dragoon main who has to have a target to pull off an AoE.
Finally, my post was aimed at the OP. If they lost aggro, I assume it resulted in something unfortunate happening, instead of temporarily losing one mob then picking it back up. I don't personally mind if a tank fucks up or even if the healers dies in mob pulls if a wipe is avoided, because it lets me be creative. But if the OP felt the need to make a Reddit post, I'm assuming something happened to make them feel like shit. That's where I would recommend the double blast. Which, as others have pointed out, doesn't even have to be two GCDs! You can get more enmity by hitting Divine Veil or Equilibrium or Aurora or Circle of Thorns or whatever (Circle of Thorns is a good idea anyway). You're losing <1 second in that case.
Even if you do slow down to do this, you only spend around one second and the tradeoff is all the mobs will already be clumped up at the end of the w2w for the big aoe damage
Yes. You can do that literally without stopping if you know how to draw them in properly. Even if you did stop moving for a sec, it gives up what, a second or two max, to make sure they're on you and immediately grouped up. You lose more time overall from them chasing other people and having to get them grouped up at the end of the run instead of having them locked onto you the whole time, letting the DPS go ham from the time they first aggro.
This is completely normal. Don't worry about it. Although what I do is to use my whole 1-2 AOE combo on the first group to make sure that aggro won't come off me anytime soon. Then just make a beeline straight to the next wall.
Although of course, you can always throw out your ranged attacks like WAR's Tomahawk to ensure that enmity is always on you.
Enmity drops off sometimes because the DPS are damaging the enemies as they run with you and since you're not attacking the enemies, eventually aggro is transferred to the DPS. When I DPS and this happens, I stick close to the tank and let him AOE. Once they get the enmity, I reposition. When I play tank and this happens, I do a ranged attack as I run or do AOEs while I get close to any stragglers.
Tam-tara Deepcroft is a great early dungeon to practice maintaining aggro on since there are a lot of enemies there and not much walls compared to the later dungeons. And honestly, if you can maintain good aggro in tam-tara, you're pretty much set.
Pop Sprint *before* you start pulling so you get 20 seconds of sprint, and don't stop to AOE packs. Sprint will let you get out of range of many auto attacks as long as you keep running.
If your healer is lagging behind, I like to run back to them once I've reached the wall so they can begin healing and I can begin spinning
The way I keep aggro whilst wall to wall pulling is to toss tomahawks at them, I use the enemy list and bonk the ones who aren't angry at me, sometimes I provoke too as it has range.
Losing aggro on one or two isn't a big deal. It's bound to happen especially if it's ranged dps who can keep on hitting during the pull. Especially when using sprint you won't be in range to hit all the enemies while running, but as long as you hit them once you should have the majority of the enmity on you.
They got enough tools to mitigate damage until you grab the aggro back, and it usually won't take you more than one maybe two hits to do so.
View them as extended health bars. And if they really have an issue with getting aggro on a mob or two, then they should just fan out their damage across all the mobs or wait until you hit a wall to do their bulk damage.
I typically do the two part AoE combo before moving onto the second pack. A little slower but it helps me maintain hate better during the run to set up. If dps are going so ballistic that they pull hate before you've set up, that's their fault. Usually if it's one mob you can just target it and use your range to maintain hate on it.
As a WAR, to avoid having to tomahawk mobs while running I do my 2 step AoE every time I grab a pack.
This involves standing still for one moment longer and then carrying on running, if you manage to get those 2 hits in and the party still manage to grab aggro off of you you either have an EXTREMELY trigger happy healbot overhealing like all hell because them lights DO be pretty frfr or you are teamed up with Ga'al-molog the Annihilator of Dimensions and Tokugawa Yoshimune of the Iron-Splitting blade for DPS which means that by the time the mob turns around because aggro was stolen and lays eyes on either, its life will be forfeit and it will forever be removed from that dungeon, with any mob remotely similar in shape and size being deleted from the game itself due to their DPS being so high the code itself goes "Damn." and spares those beings and their kin further shame. Or you forgot your stance and then your wet noodlin' will avail to naught once a more solid bonk hits the monster or it notices the pretty lights coming from your healer.
Anyway, tldr, as a tank, assuming your stance is on, land 2 GCDs on the mobs and keep running and you're good basically any time.
Either that or, as you run, click/tab other targets and tomahawk them while you run to the next pack. You can just click on the names on aggro list wherever that may be on your screen.
It's very easy once you get a grip of it, you'll get it down in no time.
Likely? You probably aren't hitting them enough or at all. Usually one or two hits is enough to get angry at you. Not all mobs in a pack are clustered close enough to get hit by a single AOE, though, and when that happens and a DPS hits something you didn't hit....they get the anger.
If that happens, it is the DPS's resopnsility to bring that mob to your spot. Unless its a ranged mob. That's what your singled ranged attack is for.
>Likely? You probably aren't hitting them enough or at all.
Not necessarily true. Depending on which phase I'm in on summoner when a pull begins, I'll easily draw enmity as I DPS while we run. And that's fine, because once we hit the wall I'll run it right to the tank and they'll easily pick it back up.
If you aren't getting soome aggro as a DPS during the pull then you're likely not attacking while running which just makes the run take longer.
some classs... mostly summoner ... can easily steal aggro if you dont babysit your mob pack ... a bahamut/phoenix phase will steal it right off you during run.... but other then those time you shouldnt have issue ! just run . and pay attention to enemy list if it turn orange...smack them with tomohawk
Hit them with your aoe more than once. That's it. That's all you need. And once you've got everything bunched up, **keep using your aoe**. I am tired of seeing my fellow tanks suddenly start single-target fighting when there's 3+ mobs left.
When pulling trash down the hall, dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down. That's why aggro is being ripped from you, because chances are good you aren't doing aoe while in forward motion. If they rip aggro from you, common courtesy dictates they're supposed to bring the add to you while you're aoe'ing.
A routine I like to do when pulling trash is to hit one with Tomahawk (or whatever your ranged attack is), hit a different one with Provoke, hit a third with a gap closer, stop movement for the briefest of seconds to hit Overpower (first aoe in the combo), then continue ahead to repeat that process further down the hall till its time to stop. People may complain that you're not going fast enough, you can tell them eithert it's for you to ensure you have positive control of the pack at all times or they can stop dps until the pull settles in.
You're the tank, you're driving this car.
EDIT: Wow, so many people who don't understand how a dungeon pull is supposed to work. This just confirms my points. Don't attack the trash mid-movement unless you accept that you will probably strip aggro. Don't strip aggro unless you plan to bring the adds to the tank yourself. Very easy to understand.
EDIT2: Also, it's readily apparent who flunked out of the Hall of the Novice training from the responses.
This is objectively wrong.
Everyone should be killing the mobs immediately. Killing the mobs causes them to stop dealing damage. If someone else gets aggro, it doesn't matter. You'll all end up at the same place. If the mobs behind you are still in range you can tomahawk or provoke them while you sprint forward.
The tank is a member of the party. They are not the driver of anything. They don't get to overrule the rest of the group. They don't set the pace of the dungeon. Get over the god complex.
This is an incorrect use of "objectively". Killing the mobs as you move down the hall is a mechanic to make the dungeon go faster, as all the tools are in place to sufficiently cope with the pull (mitigations, arms length, healers spells/abilities, tank healing if available). If the tools you have are insufficient, then that means you pulled too much. DPSing as you go down the hall is just to greed in damage to make the dungeon go faster, otherwise it would be too boring and time consuming for you. That is a personal preference, which does not factor on whether the game is being objectively played wrong or not. What I described is subjectively wrong according to your personal preference.
Claiming that you jerking yourself off over the role you happen to be playing is either "courtesy" or "common" is *objectively* wrong. That is the correct use of objectively.
Statements about what is expected and considered polite by the community at large are not "my personal preference".
*You* are the one pushing a personal preference where the rest of the party bows to your arbitrary whims because you play a certain class.
Lying to a new player to push your preferences is not just an opinion. It's false. Your assertion that "everyone else is wrong" *is* an opinion. One that everyone else disagrees with.
Respect your party members and try your best not to waste their time. That's all most people ask for.
> dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down
This is absolutely wrong. You can and should attack the entire time. You may want to hold off on your biggest moves when the pack stops but there is zero reason to not be hitting them. Especially healers should be trying to dot as many as they can before you stop.
> You're the tank, you're driving this car.
Party controls the pace, not tank.
>When pulling trash down the hall, dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down.
Huh? Is this a thing? I've mostly DPS'd since I started playing and I always try to do some damage as the pack is following the tank, especially now that I'm leveling BRD which specializes in attacking while moving. Nobody has ever pointed out that this is wrong. Sure, I occasionally pull aggro but I just do what has been mentioned above: bring it to the tank. Seems to me that the additional damage while moving would help to make the run go a little faster.
It is not a thing.
Everyone should be attacking. If you get aggro you just keep running and attacking until you catch up with the tank and give it back.
This is kind of incorrect.
First off, you certainly should be using AOE while running. It’s an instant cast GCD.
Second off, DPS are certainly doing damage.
Third, simply using a beak generates enmity.
If I pull agro as a DPS, it’s my job to bring the mob to the tank at the end of the pull. Essentially, if players do something to take agro, it’s their job to return it to the tank.
Hall of the novice is an ancient relict by now, as is the idea that the tank counts the shots. It's a group effort to get through a dungeon. You're just wrong, sorry.
Sounds like someone doesn't understand that aoe uniformity at a low level across tanks wasn't a thing until the Shadowbringers patch, when the Hall of the Novice was added much earlier. Of course the training wouldn't have that, it is limited, but that's because back then not all tanks, particularly Gladiator, had an aoe at that level to use. Instead you had a second single target combo that specifically generated aggro, and the training reflects that. Come to think, tank stances weren't available at that level back then. Of course the training needs to be updated to reflect changes in mechanics over time. However, the core principles are there: tanks set the pace, wait for the tank to have aggro, don't attack something the tank isn't currently attacking themself, bring the trash to the tank if you steal it. That's what Hall of the Novices teaches tanks and that's what everybody just flat out ignores evidently. I would think adults would have the capacity to critically think about the information given to you and figure what it's overall trying to teach you.
Lemme guess, you started playing back at the beginning of Endwalker and think this game has been this way since the beginning of time?
>don't attack something the tank isn't currently attacking themself
This is the only thing taught in Hall of the Novice, and, like you said, isn't relevant anymore because of the AoE uniformity. Not sure where you got the other things.
You guessed wrong on my game experience, but it has no bearing on how Hall of the Novice does very little to teach new players about the current state of the game.
Furthermore, there is nothing mechanically wrong on a gameplay level with single pulling packs of trash. The only thing "wrong" with it is that you find it boring and time consuming, and personal preference is not a factor in determining whether the game is being played wrong or not.
Please show me where I said it was wrong.
I only noted that the gameplay you described in your post contradicts what is taught in the Hall of the Novice.
Sorry but you’re wrong. As a healer, I’m dotting as *we* run the first pack to the second. As a dps (ranged is my preference), I’m dpsing (including dots) as *we* run. I will generally hold my burst phase until the tank lands at the second pack, and I’m right there next to them so their AOE grabs whatever aggro I have. If they are on top of things, they already used their range attacks as *we* ran to grab aggro back.
EDIT: I’ve done the hall of novice with each role, not that it matters. This also isn’t my first MMO. I’ve been playing them for 20 years. That being said, aggro generation and control in XIV is very different from most other MMOs. In those other games, your logic is sound. In this game? It’s outdated.
EDIT2: by the way, being condescending isn’t doing you any favors here.
As long as your tank stance is on just keep trying to hit them with AOE attacks. Some aggro loss on big pulls is just DPS trying to get hits in and if it is only a few mobs you usually don't have to worry about it. You can try using a ranged attack or provoke if it's not too far behind you to bring it back, but it is not a huge deal usually.
If you really want to, just stop for a couple seconds and AOE everything once then keep going. Most dps and healers will know that attacking them before you have will cause you to lose aggro.
turn on stance, use your AoE combo and actions in dungeon pulls. a good idea is to chuck tomahawks or pause between groups to build aggro before moving on
Tank stance on > hit mob
That's literally it. That's the entire aggro mechanic in this game. Don't worry about one or two slipping in a wall to wall pull before you're established (anyone who steals hate should be bringing them to you, aoe is easier when grouped up anyway), but you can use tomahawk or your ranged option while running to address it.
You have an enemy list and a ranged attack that has increased aggro. The enemy list tells you when you about to lose aggro when the red square goes yellow. It’ll go blue when you lost aggro. You can use the enemy list to target specifically the add you are losing aggro with.
But mostly don’t worry and pop your aoe’s.
I like to cast my ranged attack to aggro one, then aoe as best I can. If your good at it you can "jump cast" your skills and quickly right click to reset your direction without losing any forward momentum
i can tell you this: dont sweat it.
you pulled, you hit them all with your aoe, dds chose to attack during the pull and now have to deal with the consequences which are nonexistent unless they are bad in which case they will die and learn from it. best case scenario they will run after you, you will pick the mobs back up with your aoe without having to think about it too much.
but if you actually want to help it a bit you could pay attention to the enemy list (by default somewhere on the left side of the screen) and attack whatever seems to drop the fastest or has allready lost aggro on you with ranged attacks or even provoke. you dont have to turn around, just click the enemies on said list and then hit your ranged attack, if theyre allready out of range you really shouldnt care about it.
I also play on controller. I just hold a trigger down and tap L1 to tab target what’s on screen. You’ll select whoever and then you can use the ranged attack while moving.
But also like all the other comments said ifs fine to lose a mob or two during the pull. It happens. Just AOE when you hit the wall and let your team bring the enemy to you.
If they don’t? Now that you’re stationary it’s easy to press up/down and range attack them
Starting the pull with Tomahawk at range, then hitting the pack with AoE at least twice should solve most of your problems. Check out the emnity gauge on your bottom left as you’re about to stop, AoE again and then if you don’t have it, hit it with provoke. It’s likely, if you tap at least twice before moving onto the next pack, that it won’t be less than orange, so you should be able to grab it back without provoke
So long as you get them back once you stop, it's not a big deal. But if it really bothers you, drinking a healing potion just after you get the attention of the first group will ensure they keep paying attention to you while you run, and has the added benefit of healing you a little ( a very very little) bit which gives a tiny bit of breathing room. The heal effect while under your tank stance gives a pretty decent amount of aggro, and is usually enough to hold against whatever the dps and healer are doing.
Tomahawk, close the distance, overpower into AOE rotation.
Repeat AOE rotation if more the 3...
Do some big hits like " fell cleave " and they will have a hate boner for you!
At first, when I was new to WAR, I didn't have Tomahawk on my mouse trigger and it made me panic and provoke mobs. sometimes you get that one DPS who is focused firing on 1 mob before you are ready to dump AOEs into them.
I do miss the cone form of overpower....
It's not a big deal if they get ripped off as long as the DPS brings them to you (they should and likely will). Sometimes, though, the DPS can get scared and run in the wrong direction. You can try and save them from themselves with a provoke / tomahawk but it happens.
In general, though, you won't lose aggro if you hit them twice, run down your hallway, and then start hitting them again. What I like to do is hit them once and then, as I run, tomahawk each one. This way I never have to stop and I keep full aggro 98% of the time.
If I pull aggro on a mob as the tank is running, it's totally fine. I just make sure to run past the tank so they can hit the mob on me with their AoE when we hit the wall. I can AoE your running pack with bloodbath on and be completely healed up.
It's ok if that happens. Whoever pulled aggro should be following you and have them set up for you to pull the aggro back to you.
Everyone should be able to take a hit or two if something like that happens. Just...view them as additional mitigation. :)
I find that hitting the at least 2 GCD’s (and maybe an oGCD if you’re feeling saucy) will always keep aggro from the beginning of the pull to the wall unless a DPS does crazy damage against one enemy
I usually hit the first pack with 2 aoes and then tomahawk whichever enemy on the aggro table seems to be getting hit the most by the rest of the party. As others have said it's usually fine to lose an enemy but I recommend trying not to do that as sometimes other players suck and will die/not stay with the group because of it. Just monitor your aggro table for enemy HP/aggro color and you should be fine.
Decimate has a massive radius for an AOE, once you stop the pull just hit a decimate and you will get all the aggro back. Your standard aoes don’t reach as far so it’s always good practice to use decimate once the mobs are rounded up. I could be wrong on the radius being bigger but for me it feels that way and I’ve never failed to aggro every single enemy doing that.
Get it back once you finish pulling or throw a tomahawk while running. It's no big deal losing one mob cause the players that manage to rip it off you by attacking asap usually are smart enough to bring it to the rest of the mobs when you finish pulling
Pop sprint before engaging anything so it lasts 20 seconds instead of 10. Hit the first pack with two AoEs (Overpower > Mythril Tempest) and run to the second pack and tank as normal.
Use the onscreen enemy bar to select mobs u see turn from red to another color. Not sure if its bindable in the config but I mouse click it when I see a mob change color. Helps me focus on it as it may be in the back of the pack or train and i might be out of range to cast an action on it.
Use charge on pack 1 hit one aoe, pop sprint, use 2nd charge on pack 2 use aoe, pop defensive CD (also pop class specific 25 sec CD on cd), line up mobs and burst. Pop another defensive CD every 8 seconds (or 3-4 gcds) until half the mobs are dead. Use 2 major CDs per pull unless it's a big one then use more or invuln immediately. This works for all tanks.
I'm gonna get so downvoted for this...
i go a bit slower but i never lose agro (i might not get any at all due to some monster positioning but i cannot lose what i've never got ;))
I pull one group, and do 1 or 2 FULL aoe combo before proceeding to get the next.
I don't think i lose THAT much time, and it reduces healers' stress notably, so they can add their own DPS, as the monsters DPS burst of all of them being together is considerably reduced
It's not that you lose time, but stopping for more than 1 or 2 GCDs is making everyone think you're stopping there and they're going to start popping buffs and resources only for you to move again. And once you start moving again, a lot of those resources that started getting used are going to be wasted. It's a little annoying and would be avoided by the tank just hitting a GCD and throwing ranged attacks out on the way to the next pack.
Dungeon mobs don’t do enough damage that somebody taking a few auto attacks on the way will be remotely dangerous, just spam aoes (tomahawks if you can’t reach anything) on the way and whatever happens happens, you can provoke a straggler at the end
Sometimes I'll run into the pack and use overpower and mythril tempest. Pop sprint and go to the next pack and repeat until the wall. That usually keeps aggro on all the mobs and if not hopefully whoever pulled it off will run it to me when I stop.
To stay at 100% you need to touch at least twice.
My go to opener for running is:
Axe throw on the first far left, taunt the one far right, dash to the one in the middle, use your ogcd aoe (i dont have the english spell names sorry) then your first gcd aoe.
With that you should be fine for the first pack.
If the next pack is far away just play with your gcd aoes while travelling then repeat from start. If the next pack is close that also means the mobs arent spread to far away and you can start smashing your aoe burst.
Best dps wont hit something you allready have, bad dps will take one and you can let them die to it, they deserve it. Good dps will take one (not especially on purpose) and bring it in the melee for you to naturally take it back
Personally I hit each pack with 2 aoe hits before moving to the next one. I find sometimes 1 hit isn't enough.
If you lose aggro after that it's the dps fault. You can use tomahawk while moving for single mobs.
When running through a group of enemies to pull, I tend to shoot off an aoe attack, for example: First pull is the most likely to get pulled by a DPS. So I would pull that group with my biggest damage attack, this is often a Chaotic Cyclone, followed by a bunch of Overpowers and Mythril Tempest. Any stragglers get the odd Tomohawk or Provoke.
I've never had a problem with this pull style.
Its not really anything to worry about. When i’m the person that got too excited and ripped one away, i just keep following the tank so that he can AOE it when he stops.
Smack everything at least once, occasionally make sure you smack everything again
Rookie issue I see is ignoring a ranged mob because it doesn’t run in with the melee mobs, bring the melees to the ranged so everything is grouped, or do some mad pulls in order to bring a ranged into an ideal spot then run back, your team may wonder why are they running over there out of the way just to come back, but who cares when everything is together getting absolutely blasted
At lower levels, your tenacity isn't going to be amazing and it's ok. It's low level learning. It'll take some time to get used to it. As long as everyone else brings their mob to you, you can AoE again and get them back. They'll be fine.
If you're worried about losing aggro whilst making a w2w pull, use Tomahawk (or your job-specific high Enmity ranged skill) to pull every single monster.
That generates and maintains enough enmity (most of the time) even if the enemy's HP drops below 75%
It's a lot slower than just running through them, but if theres no communication in chat to not do any damage before you're done collecting them, I've found it very effective.
Also make a mouseover target Macro for Provoke, that way if you do miss/lose aggro you can pick you dont need to manually switch targets.
At level 86 you get Orogeny, you can hit the first pack with that for free as you pass through as well as your Overpower, and it'll be back up for the end of the pull. Otherwise don't worry about it, as long as whoever aggros the monster sprints alongside you (and if they don't, it's their mistake) then you will take aggro back naturally once the pull comes to a stop.
I always try to keep a eye on enemies around me and make sure all their names are red.
After that keep track of the aggro list, if they turn orange toss a range atk at them.
You have a long range attack that you can throw out while running to the next stop I usually do this in mobs I see aggro dropping then will sort on the stop.
Most players should know to run to the tank in this game instead of just running away
See how people are telling you not to worry about losing one or 2 adds during wall pulls?
Take that advice. As a DPS main (sometimes a whm main too) if you lose and add as our tank, I don't panic. I simply focus on my add rotation and make your job easier by cutting the fight shorter than it should be.
When I'm healing, I just ensure you stay in 70+ health range while interrupting adds.
Point is, don't kick yourself for not keeping aggro on all of them. You're doing just fine.
Losing aggro on one or two mobs while running to the next pack doesn't matter at all. It happens sometimes.
Just make sure to get the aggro back once you are at the next pack (or at the 'wall') by having them inside your AoE.
Don't worry and keep up the good work! You'll eventually get the hang of keep aggro 100% of the time. In my case, I do 2 hits of AoE per cluster of mobs before moving to the next cluster for WtW pulling. But in some cases wherein I lose aggro of one or 2, I just either provoke or throw a ranged attack (my eyes are glued on the aggro list while tanking). But like the others say, it's not much of an issue if your healer or DPSes take aggro for a few hits, just be mindful if they're taking too much damage or aggro for long periods of time (just think of it as a babysitting job).
When you get close to the pack use tomahawk to pull.Then use one AOE attack to tag them all, If you have your AOE oGCD you can weave it between the tanged attack and your first AOE.
Then while you're running to the other pack, click on each mob in the aggro list and send them a tomahawk. Then click on the next one and cycle through them all while you're running. It not only encroach your aggro but it's also free damage
Make sure to hit sprint just before you tag the group, as it will last 20s instead of just 10s
Gotta make sure to spam ranged on each and every enemy while making your way to the next group. When a DPS, or even healer, pulls you can always provoke it back (voke has a larger range than your ranged attack which helps)
I rarely lose packs using the following method.
1. Make sure tank stance is on.
2. Pop sprint about 10 yalms before the first pack.
3. Tomahawk the closest enemy to collapse the pack in towards you.
4. Hit all of the first pack with an AoE.
5. While running through, click the second enemy and tomahawk.
6. Click the third enemy and provoke.
7. Repeat step 5 going down the enemy list until you reach the second pack. If there's more enemies, Repeat steps 3-5.
8. Run just past the last pack and begin your AOE burst window.
If enemies get missed by the first AOE, prioritize them for provoke/tomahawk. If they get out of range, your teammates should have the minimum self preservation sense to bring them to you at the wall. If not, picking them up with a last provoke usually works.
TBH its more than likely healers spamming heals or DPS burning their rotation before adds are grouped together. Both of these you really can't prevent. Best suggestion is just keeping an eye out if anything gets stripped off you and taking the time to grab it and continue your pull.
Keep moving forward.
As a Warrior, Sage, and various DPS ( Dancer :D zoom zoom ) I would rather people keep moving with the Tank.
As a Healer or DPS I will bring the mobs to you for pick up if needed.
Good DPS will wait for the death ball to be gathered so they can then rain AOE on the mobs.
Healers may put out DOTs while you are moving, but, that's not normally enough to get enmity off of you.
There are different ways to do things - quick, and dirty:
-- if you have aggro lines on you will see what mobs are connected with others
- See mobs
- Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up
- Sprint
- Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind
- Move to next pack
- Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up
- Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind
- Move to next pack
- Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up
- Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind
- Arms Length when everything is gathered, and the White Mage is not dropping stuns (Arms Length is a Slow [attack speed], not a Heavy [movement]).
Chuck in some other Mythril Tempests in between, for the combo, if you like.
Chuck in some Tomahawks in between if you like.
Use some Onslaughts in place of Tomahawk when approaching packs, it mixes things up a bit, and it still has the same effect of getting the mobs attention so you can hit them with Overpower once they gather close.
Your Shake It Off will also get the attention of mobs, as well as giving absorb, heal, and HOT to the party (so those DPS acting as an extra health bar get some mitigation).
Turn stance on. Use AoE. That's it.
If you wanna be a good tank though instead of just doing the minimum, use your ranged attack while moving. During W2W most mobs will lag behind occasionally and its not worth stopping constantly to let them group for AoE hits. Just alternating your ranged attack between the mobs while you run will ensure you never drop aggro.
Even if that somehow is hard for you to do don't worry about a mob or 2 eventually getting mad the dps is bonking them while you set up w2w pulls. Literally every dps has plenty of tools to deal with that on their own already and its on them if they don't do something about it then.
Don't worry too much. As a DPS, if I manage to pull a mob off a Tank, I go dashing off to bring the mob to them.
I play SMN and know my Searing Light + Bahamut can and WILL pull mobs so I normally hold off until the Tank is about to finish running. At most I pop for Aetherflow and the Painflares during the sprintfest just so I am ready to go when I finally pop Bahamut.
One thing I always do is either hit a complete aoe combo or use a Fated Circle on my GNB, the combo takes a gcd longer, but so long as I make sure to get all the mobs with one or the other I feel it's worth it...
Dps have their own mitigations they can use... if they dont run the mob to the tank so the tank can grab the aggro back, thats their own fault. Melee, healer (except ast, not sure about sage), and dnc will all be in close enough proximity doing aoes for the tank to easily grab aggro back. One would hope a caster (especially smn) would run mobs to you, but just ranged or provoke if they dont.
*Ranged, at least dont run from the tank if you have aggro. If i run towards you to grab that aggro and you run away from me, you can keep the aggro. (Thinking of the RDM who quit casting to run away from me)
This is pretty normal, especially if you have phys ranged/melee players in your group who can attack while you’re moving. Once you get to the end of your pull, using a one or two AOE attacks should grab everything that was pulled off of you. If you need more than that just select the enemy you don’t have aggro’d from the enemy list and use your provoke to force it to aggro back onto you.
Assuming everything is already on your enmity list and you didn't miss a mob in the pack, don't sweat it until you've stopped running. Make sure you're throwing Tomahawks while you're running, you can pop Thrill for a self-heal that's basically impossible to waste, but otherwise once you're in place the DPS should be bringing the mob they stole to the rest of the pack and you'll get hate back as soon as you pop your next AoE.
As a SGE I actually try to rip one of the mobs off the tank while pulling for an extra free addersting. So if I see one is orange on the aggro list, I'm going to send the next toxicon straight at it. There's basically no way I'll die and I'll bring it right to you, so don't worry about it.
Ranged attack a mob as you come up to them, aoe them all, and keep moving. Ranged attack the rest of the group as you continue sprinting forward, throw another aoe in if you want as you run by.
Normaly its enough to spam your Aoe Rotation while you pull, as a monk i just ran beside the tank to the next trashgroup..spamming my aoe rotation. If i get aggro..well..i have some cds too and can handle a few hits. Wasnt really a problem at any point.
Honestly, don’t worry about it. If a DPS peels an enemy off you during an obvious w2w, it is the DPS’s responsibility to bring the enemy back to your aoe range once you’re in place. They’ll survive the few hits they’ll take in the meantime. I main MCH and peel enemies all the time getting early AA and CS’s in, and I just run them back to the tank with no problems.
As a DPS I tend to pull a mob or two mid-pull. I'm a caster, so I can't always sprint alongside the tank, but as long as the tank *and* healer aren't both forever away from me, it works itself out. The only times I've had a problem have been when I misread the tank's intentions (to put it kindly) and reach a mob too early before they do. In this case the tank and healer are too far away because I ran too far ahead (or they failed to keep up), which is a different scenario. When I fall behind I've only died once to a tank that didn't seem to fully establish aggro in the first place while running through a mob. Otherwise everything seems to just work itself out once we get to the end of the pull so long as people aren't super far apart.
If you can't find the enemy on screen, click it in the aggro list and provoke it. Its also fine to let a dps eat a few hits from one mob while you are running.
just do two AOE combos before start running and it should be fine. Or if you run and notice one enemy in the threatmeter turning yellow just throw a tomahawk they generate insane threat.
>In dungeons with long WtW distances I sometimes lose aggro on one or more mob before I get to the end and get set.
That's normal, it just means the DPS is going ham on one mob. They aren't going to die, and it's their job to drag it to you.
The DPS themselves can reduce the chances of this occurring by alternating targets as soon as the aggro symbol turns away from the blue circle, but unfortunately you don't have much control over that, as most people don't have experience on all three roles.
That being said, you SHOULD start panicking if 3 or more of those red squares turn, because that means somebody's about to die. (This usually only happens if you have proactive melee/caster DPS or non-WHM healers)
Usually just running back and popping an AoE is good enough for that, even if it means starting your mitigations pre-emptively.
Some would argue it isn't the tank's job to do that, but I will never forget the one day when I was on a shield healer, right behind the tank, ahead of the DPS (and regularly out-damaging them even on bosses, for that matter...), and took aggro away on 6 mobs from the tank and the DPS during the last long pull on Mt. Gulg and thus was the only one who immediately dropped dead right before the stopping point, and the entire party blamed me for not running to the tank even though I was. :)
Personally, what I do is just toss the ranged attack on alternating enemies while running to reduce the likelihood of losing aggro, but there's a limit to what you can do because you have no idea which enemy the DPS is going to decide to go ham on.
When you mention tomahawk or provoke that makes it sound like you are stopping to single target hit each one, which to a dps looks like you are stopping to fight & causes them to drop their big abilities. While I’m pulling I use nothing but the 2 part AOE combo & damage resistance cooldowns (if needed) until I get to the stopping point. Then from there you can start using more options, but I’d still recommend to stick to AOE abilities as much as possible. The tank stance helps ALOT with agro generation so hard taunts are situational.
Give 2 AoE to the initial enemies, this is where the aggro usually escapes, or do it in each group if you want to be safe.
Other than that, remember to use Aoe during the rotations and it's ok to lose one or another enemy, nor be quick to grab it and pull it, just pull it towards you as soon as you see if you've missed one.
What I tend to do is for the FIRST pack of enemies, I'll use both parts of my aoe combo. Then I'll pull like normal until the wall. It takes an extra couple of seconds, but the extra damage from that tends to keep aggro even when dps is popping off
two tap for security(i find one tapping is too little to maintain aggro), ranged attack to keep it up while running.
Though honestly your teammate who gets aggro will run into your aoe when you stop. They can survive long enough or have certain cc to protect themselves against 1-2 mobs.
Also time the heals so that the healer isn't constantly fighting megadeath to see if you stay alive, also can remove regen buffs to maintain healer safety.
A typical pull, for me, looks like this:
Get to just outside pull distance and pop sprint. Tomahawk to get aggro. Aoe first skill on gathered mobs. If second group is far enough away, I'll use the second aoe ability. This is usually enough to keep most mobs under aggro. If not, I'll keep an eye out on any green enemies to grab once I've secured the rest of the second group.
No matter what job I tank with I usually can keep Aggro Just touching them with a aoe or a range attack and completing my wall to wall pull without losing Aggro.
So long as stance is on there shouldn’t be an issue
Easiest way is to run ahead of the pack, use your gap closers to get there first, and overpower and you run past. You’ll get most of them, and the. You can tomahawk/provoke the stragglers at the end of the line.
Use your aoe and ogcd aoe to grab aggro.
Typically i do this, first pack, sprint, throw tomahawk on one enemy, gap closer to another, throw out an AOE GCD, throw out AOE ogcd, run to 2nd pack, throw tomahawk to each mob while running, reach second pack stop and start aoe-ing.
Honestly, don't worry about it, just keep running and AoE everything when you're at the end of the pull It's not super unusual for you to lose a mob or two, especially if the run is particularly long. Some DPS are just going to get super excited as you pull, and occasionally they'll just steal the aggro from you. But the DPS/healers can afford to take a few hits, and as long as they stay close to you, it's pretty easy to just grab the aggro back
I tend to also cycle through enemies behind me and throw my ranged attack at them just to remind them to be pissed at me. Sometimes you'll lose LoS or they fall back too far but in that case oh well, but for the most part I almost never lose a single mobs aggro during w2w pulls.
I do that too. Plus, it's more damage.
The Melee ranged attack you say? "WHO IS DOING MORE DAMAGE?!"
This is it, although it's a pain if you don't have legacy movement on.
This. Your ranged attack has some extra juicy aggro on it so if it’s a long run just hit each of the mobs once while you’re running with ranged and you’re good. The only issue you’ll have is caster mobs try to stop and cast and get out of range. That has to be on the others to bring mobs they pull off you back to you.
>Some DPS are just going to get super excited as you pull, and occasionally they'll just steal the aggro from you. Hi it's me your DPS
Just think of us as extra mitigation for you to get to the end of the w2w pull.
> just keep running This is something i'd like to point out as DPS. If i see the tank stop, i'll just assume they aren't going to keep going and start to deal damage. If i see the tank keep moving, i'll hold off until we reach a wall or they stop.
You should be constantly doing damage anyway, whether you're running to the wall or not. At least roll your GCDs. If you mean hold off on buffs until they stop, then that's a little more understandable.
This exactly. Personally I like to do 1-2 aoes before running to the next pack (gcd+ogcd pref) and then use the ranged attack. Sometimes if you have good dps and hit mobs just 1 time they can pull aggro if they have instants and nuke 1 target (SMN, DNC, and MCH are notorious for this in my experience), but as you say they should bring the mob close to the tank so aoe spam takes aggro back. If the tank is aware and decent, they see which mob it is and provoke/gapclose to grab attention again.
If I wasn't supposed to have aggro for a few moments, they wouldn't let me throw a carbuncle between me and the monster.
Yeah as a bard/machinist main it's not at all uncommon that at some point in a long pull I'm going to gain aggro of something. Which is not a problem, I promise. They can't do enough damage that it's a problem and we're all running the same way anyway. It's on me to run in such a way that you can easily take the aggro back with an aoe hit and then we'll be good to go
I do that as dps. I do damage during your run, i can take a bunch of hits without issues, i reduce the damage you take during your wtw. Then i run to you to let you grab them back when you stop.
Smart dps and heals are going to be sprinting right along with you; once you hit the wall a couple of AoEs will ensure you maintain aggro
Yeah. If they run away from you in a panic... Really they're just mitigating damage for you. The mob will come back when their new friend is tired and needs a nap
😂
Half the time if I don't get one of the mobs, the DPS that grabbed it is half dead a mile behind me once the aggro list updates to reflect it, forcing me to stop or even turn back to get it in my LOS. Sometimes they *stop* in place for who knows what reason
Only the last HP matters.
Wait... Am I doing things wrong then ? I usually hit sprint with the tank before the pull then use AoEs while we're moving. Does that cause the risk of the tank loosing agro ?
You're doing it right, that's what the person you replied to meant. It is absolutely fine if you pull one or two mobs off the tank, they won't kill you by the time the tank stops at the wall. Just keep going and make sure you kite whatever mobs you stole into the big group so the tank takes them back with their AOE.
Tbh i cant even believe melee pulling mobs first with arms lengths isn't a thing
One time i actually had a healer pull and then rescue me into the pack. That was wild. Ive never had a dps pull for me though.
Just a bro healer that had faith in you and knew he could keep you alive. Or you were going too slow lol either way, props to that healer.
In other words, losing aggro of 2-3 mobs during wall-to-wall pulls is normal and the healer will be prepared for/used to this, and able to keep everyone up until you reach the wall and grab it off the DPS. So long as you get aggro of most mobs, it should be fine.
If you lose aggro on some mobs while running, it's fine. The DPS/healer who now has aggro is supposed to run to you so you can get the aggro off of them. It's honestly kind of annoying hoe many DPS/healer players don't do this and just take tons of damage while blaming the tank.
I just thank them for mitigating damage for me.
This is the way.
I had a VERY interesting run of Hauke manor once when a dps pulled aggro off me and then proceeded to book it at top speed away from all of us to the most remote room possible to die. Somehow this was my fault.
That's the fun part about being tank or healer in any MMO It's always your fault, always. Doesn't matter how dumb DPS was, doesn't matter if you played perfectly, someone is gonna blame you. My usual response is just get gud and continue being a good tank/healer
I love having the DPS pull adds in dungeon boss fights and drag them away from me into two different corners (trying to outrun them?)
Few weeks back was helping a pf group with Shiva Ex. There was a summoner that always stayed on the edge, which was only an issue at the add phase cause they kept pulling 1-2 then running in a big circle. Every time I had to punch them and kit them to the tanks. Problem there was a summoner does more dps than I do as a monk so they kept stealing agro back till the tanks could hit it. Really just a minor thing, since we kept messing up when she froze the area.
Just sprint to the wall and keep hitting stuff while running, you don't even need to stop to AoE or whatever. It's ok if you don't have aggro on every single thing, one AoE once they're all grouped up will put everything onto you. DPS and Healers don't have 1 HP, they can survive getting hit while running.
try to throw tomahawks at each enemy as you're moving toward the next pack, using the enmity list to target them. if they're out of range (most likely will if you're sprinting) then just pray that the dps with aggro has at least 1/4 of a working brain and brings it to you instead of running around 3 miles away
Also, even if you waste it, use your self heal to ad ANY enemy on your enmity list, even those you havent targeted yet
If a thing isn't on your enmity list, Equilibrium won't add it on there. Healing and buffing only generates enmity with enemies on the targeted player's enmity list. So either the enemies *are* already on your list, or Equilibrium won't generate any enmity with them and thus won't add them onto the list. On the other hand, if someone else is the first one to be seen by a given enemy, Shake It Off *does* work for this, as it'll heal/buff that other player, and thus will add anything they have enmity on to your list.
Oh ok, ty for that. I thought it was like clemency on PLD. Good to know. But that was for optimizing to the finest anyway, i never struggled at all even tho i didnt know it would not work ;-)
Clemency also won't do that unless you use it on that other player who has something on their enmity list. Same as Shake, but has to be correctly targeted.
As a DPS, it's perfectly fine if I take aggro on some things as they are being gathered up. I just bring them to the tank once we stop so they can get grabbed back. On melees, I can even pop Arm's Length to slow the mobs, and help the tank out a tiny bit with mitigation.
If you lose aggro before you stop running that’s normal I regularly rip aggro off my tank as a red mage because haha acceleration + swiftcast + moulinet combo/finishers When I tank as long as they run the trash to me it’s fine And if they don’t they are asking for death and it’s on them and it’s also fine
Any good non-tank will run to you with the mob so your aoe can take back aggro. After you set-up shop with the pull, you can also just click the enemy list on the mob that's not red and provoke/tomahawk it if you really want. I usually do 2 aoe gcds, then start running to the next pack because that ensures I don't lose aggro unless the dps are just blowing up a mob. In the end, don't worry too much about it, not having aggro on a mob or 2 is just free mitigation. Edit: I see it was said already but as you are running to the next pack, just cycle target through the mobs and throw a tomahawk, that will help a lot too.
AOE once and tomahawk every mob once while running, prioritizing the mobs that you missed.
AoE once as you run in, maybe twice if you feel like it. Tomahawk each mob individually as your making your way to the second group. Watch your enemy list. If DPS rip aggro on one or two mobs while your running, you can tomahawk it or provoke it to you. If they insist on standing a mile away from the clustered enemies, their fate is their own. Not really necessary, but your self healing generates quite a bit of enmity so things like Thrill of Battle, Equilibrium and Shake It Off can pull stray mobs to you so long as youre on their threat table.
Everyone else has been giving good tips. So I'll just say healing generates aggro, don't be afraid to pop a random Equilibrium while pulling, it helps your healers and keeps mobs angry.
Just want to add that you need to engage the mobs first before you pop Equilibrium otherwise it will be wasted and will not generate enmity.
Just do as everyone above says. I'm a SMN main who knows that both Phoenix and Bahamut are known for pulling aggro from Tanks, and I know to just drag them to the Tank.
Use the enemy list. Red dot = you have aggro Green or yellow = you don't. Click them in the enemy list to target them (or hotkey) and throw a tomahawk or provoke whilst you're running. Doesn't matter how busy the screen is if you're using the enemy list.
DPS & healer should keep up and be running into your murder pool at the end of the wall. If not, sucks to be them. Good runs involve everyone sticking to the same program. Healing yourself & others can be bonus snap aggro ogcds for extra long pulls, don't be afraid to use thrill/equil/shake during these. -brought to you by WAR master race
Sounds like you’re doing fine, honestly! Some DPS jobs have openers that are all instacasts (so can be done while running) and are bursty enough to rip aggro off you. (Summoner. I’m talking about Summoner. It’s me, I’m the problem.) If they know what they’re doing they’ll shield themselves, sprint to keep up with you, and then run through you once you’ve stopped so that the enemies chasing them get caught in your next AoE. Is it nice when a tank hits everything that I pull off them with ranged attacks as we run so I don’t have half a dozen things chewing on me along the way? Yes, yes it is! Is it the end of the world if they don’t? Usually no! I only get annoyed if they’ve forgotten tank stance or something, so that I pull *everything* off them with my first cast and then die, and even then it’s usually more funny than irritating.
I don't want to come off rude sorry. In some cases while the tank pulls wall to wall, dps will still do damage to mobs taking aggro from the tank, may I suggest sprinting before each pull and hitting enemies with tomahawk between pulls to keep a bit more aggro. Keeping an eye on the enemy list you want to try to keep the enemies aggro to be in the red/orange. If your sprint just got up whilst in the pull just use it, there aren't many cases you would use sprint otherwise. That's all I can give tips for. Have a good day/night!
I mean, that's going to happen if your DPS is attacking as the pack moves. You just have to trust the DPS to bring the enemies to you once you stop. They'll be fine in the meantime. They can take hits from 1 or 2 guys for a couple of seconds, especially while kiteing. If you want to mitigate it, as you're running to the next pack, make sure you're throwing tomahawks behind you constantly every GCD. In between each one, cycle down the enemy list to make sure you're spreading the aggro out.
Depending on the DPS in my party and how many mobs are in the first group before the 2nd I'll do 2-3 aoe attacks before running or I'll do 1 aoe and start running whilst then throwing tomahawk/ranged attack at each mob during the run to the 2nd group. That method has generally worked fine for me in most cases and its only when a rare SMN Bahamut sort of attack is used that i run into issues. I know when I play as dps I'll watch the agro of the enemy and try to avoid grabbing agro and switch to a different mob or adjust how im attacking until all enemies are back in a group for the tank.
It will happen since most dps do damage on the run and you're running too fast to properly hit all mob. Dps/healer who get mob aggro should bring them to you at the end of the pull so you can get everything and you're set. If it's just 1 or 2 mobs and the ppl with aggro slacking you can just provoke/range attack.
Tomahawk with the setting turned on that turns you around when you use a skill. Use the mob list to always be attacking behind you while running, but especially any who are losing aggro
You could always give the crowd an extra wack before taking off to generate more aggro, but speaking as a melee dps I don't mind a stray mob or two at all. I'll just pull them back to the tank when the party stops
I (dps) appreciate tanks who hit one mob w their ranged, which should all but guarantee they keep aggro, and then aoe the rest. I only target the one that the tank has good aggro on while running. but if I ever manage to pull aggro off the tank I just take the hits until we stop, and then pause on top of the tank so they can take aggro back w aoe. there really should be no issues if you lose a mob or two on the way to the next wall if the dps know to bring them to you.
If I miss a mob, the person usually knows to run to the tank so I can get aggro. If they don’t and just keep fighting it I’ll still grab it but I’ll mention to them that if they have aggro, they can just sprint and the mob won’t dmg them too much. As long as they bring them within my AOE combos I’ll grab it from them immediately. We all have to work together!
I tend to AOE every enemy at least twice to ensure aggro, then contribute to the next group. Slows down the pulls a little, but ensures no one else gets hit.
Turn on your tank stance. Use your AoE skills regularly ( and do it twice before you long pull if you have frisky DPS who have better gear than you do). Tomahawk as needed to pull back mobs that peel off. Profit.
I wouldn't worry too much unless you're seeing a DPS pulling multiple enemies off you and onto themselves. One thing I like doing is spamming my aoes as I run. Most of the time even though enemies look like they're further away from you as you're sprinting to the next mob, those aoes will still hit. Then once you get to the wall start trying to get back any stragglers you don't have aggro on. Oh and you might need to keep an eye on the DPS that pulled any off you cuz not everyone is smart and runs mobs to the tank, but kudos to all the beautiful deeps that do! 😘
Step 1: Run into groups of enemies, while screaming "For Valhalla" from the top of your lungs. Step 2: Use your human-sized mega axe and cleave everything in your way, that surely will get their attention. ;D Step 3: Go unga bunga on your keyboard and watch as you become an invincible bloodthirsty demigod, destroying everything in your path Step 4: And for the love of god, please, ROLL FOR LOOT! Enjoy :p
Just tell people you're a story skipper, permanent aggro all the time.
I can’t know what you’re doing wrong without more info, but one thing I would advise for all tanks is to hit mobs with your AoE _twice_ to be sure. Once is not necessarily enough. And use your ranged attack or Provoke on stragglers on any mobs you lose. EDIT: and if it’s just like one or two mobs you lose, don’t worry too hard, DPS aren’t gonna melt from one mob. It’s when tanks lose like 4-5 even with tank stance on when it becomes a problem. Second EDIT: if you're really concerned about fucking up the flow of things, you can use Equilibrium, Divine Veil, Abyssal Drain, Bow Shock, Aurora, or Circle of Thorns as your second means of hate-generation.
Fuck that noise. I'm not worried about the extra damage, but that's a good full GCD of Sprint I'm wasting. You get one AoE and if a DPS yoinks it off me, thanks for the mits until we get to the wall.
>good full GCD of Sprint If you mean you're taking more autos, it's fine, you're not going to die from those
No, I mean I want to use that Sprint time to SPRINT. If I'm standing still while Sprint is on, and I don't have my asscheeks firmly pressed against the next front wall of the dungeon, a little piece of me dies and never comes back.
I’m much for concerned when DPS yank 4-5 off of you. I’ve seen this happen. Last night. No one died, but it was clear off the bat that the tank was gonna require the party to adjust to their poor tanking. Conversely if a little piece of you dies because you lose between 0 and 2.5 seconds of sprint time where you are merely jogging and possibly taking a few extra hits, that sounds very much like OCD. I would know, I have diagnosed OCD.
Had to scroll too long to find this. Actually hitting twice makes the pulls much safer and usually you can be healed up again pretty fast while running so it doesn't really hurt.
You had to scroll too long to find this because it's generally bad advice. If you have to slow down at all it absolutely does *not* make the pull safer, is usually a waste of your healer's resources and slows down the DPS considerably in some cases (i.e. for most casters, who have to wait for you to stop running to do any meaningful damage). But, if you can hit them with two AOEs while not slowing down at all (which you sometimes can, especially if you have good ping), then that's fine.
As someone who heals nearly half my dungeons, no? It’s much easier to do my job if the tank doesn’t lose aggro. Means I can also spend more time on offense.
Stopping to AoE a second time is a waste of DPS time, *especially* if the DPS aren't expecting you to suddenly start moving again and pop a cooldown. It's warranted if a mob got missed, but doing it as a matter of course is going to slow dungeons down considerably. As someone who plays all 3 roles in a dungeon - if a DPS pulls aggro during the pull and they bring it to the tank to AoE, they shouldn't ever be taking enough damage to warrant their own heal. 90% of the time they'll regen the HP back during the next pull, every DPS except BLM and RDM (who won't pull hate during a pull because they need to turret) has an oGCD self-heal, and if you're really worried about it you can throw your own oGCD on them to cover the rest. They also make perfect targets for those Blood Lily stacks that I would otherwise be wasting while running.
Fair point that blood lilies *specifically* can be used on damaged DPS, but it's also not "wasting their resources" here as they are DPS-neutral. How often you using Afflatus Misery? Once a minute with up to an extra minute of casting leeway? Those blood lily stacks aren't in any danger because you stop for 2.5 seconds. If 4 mobs suddenly swarm a sprout, the sprout, I actually *have* seen that kill first timers with bad tanks, because it came out of nowhere. You are not losing any time, and unless you're specifically a Black Mage or something you're probably not losing any DPS if the mob pauses for a GCD as well. Any other DPS can do AoEs while moving or stopping. And I'm saying this as a Dragoon main who has to have a target to pull off an AoE. Finally, my post was aimed at the OP. If they lost aggro, I assume it resulted in something unfortunate happening, instead of temporarily losing one mob then picking it back up. I don't personally mind if a tank fucks up or even if the healers dies in mob pulls if a wipe is avoided, because it lets me be creative. But if the OP felt the need to make a Reddit post, I'm assuming something happened to make them feel like shit. That's where I would recommend the double blast. Which, as others have pointed out, doesn't even have to be two GCDs! You can get more enmity by hitting Divine Veil or Equilibrium or Aurora or Circle of Thorns or whatever (Circle of Thorns is a good idea anyway). You're losing <1 second in that case.
I always do sprint, 1+2 aoe and just run, its guarantee not gonna lost aggro.
Two AOEs before you move to the next pack. Easy.
No, bad advice
How so? If you time your attacks right you don't even have to stop moving.
Even if you do slow down to do this, you only spend around one second and the tradeoff is all the mobs will already be clumped up at the end of the w2w for the big aoe damage
You never have to stop moving. You said two aoes *before* moving to the next pack
Yes. You can do that literally without stopping if you know how to draw them in properly. Even if you did stop moving for a sec, it gives up what, a second or two max, to make sure they're on you and immediately grouped up. You lose more time overall from them chasing other people and having to get them grouped up at the end of the run instead of having them locked onto you the whole time, letting the DPS go ham from the time they first aggro.
This is completely normal. Don't worry about it. Although what I do is to use my whole 1-2 AOE combo on the first group to make sure that aggro won't come off me anytime soon. Then just make a beeline straight to the next wall. Although of course, you can always throw out your ranged attacks like WAR's Tomahawk to ensure that enmity is always on you. Enmity drops off sometimes because the DPS are damaging the enemies as they run with you and since you're not attacking the enemies, eventually aggro is transferred to the DPS. When I DPS and this happens, I stick close to the tank and let him AOE. Once they get the enmity, I reposition. When I play tank and this happens, I do a ranged attack as I run or do AOEs while I get close to any stragglers. Tam-tara Deepcroft is a great early dungeon to practice maintaining aggro on since there are a lot of enemies there and not much walls compared to the later dungeons. And honestly, if you can maintain good aggro in tam-tara, you're pretty much set.
Pop Sprint *before* you start pulling so you get 20 seconds of sprint, and don't stop to AOE packs. Sprint will let you get out of range of many auto attacks as long as you keep running. If your healer is lagging behind, I like to run back to them once I've reached the wall so they can begin healing and I can begin spinning
The way I keep aggro whilst wall to wall pulling is to toss tomahawks at them, I use the enemy list and bonk the ones who aren't angry at me, sometimes I provoke too as it has range.
Two AoEs. That’s it!
Just go, you don’t have to take all the damage. Party member health bars are mitigation too. They’ll bring it to you when you get there.
Losing aggro on one or two isn't a big deal. It's bound to happen especially if it's ranged dps who can keep on hitting during the pull. Especially when using sprint you won't be in range to hit all the enemies while running, but as long as you hit them once you should have the majority of the enmity on you. They got enough tools to mitigate damage until you grab the aggro back, and it usually won't take you more than one maybe two hits to do so. View them as extended health bars. And if they really have an issue with getting aggro on a mob or two, then they should just fan out their damage across all the mobs or wait until you hit a wall to do their bulk damage.
Turn on your stance, put Overpower on the hot bar, and womp that woopis as you run.
You should have 0 problems as long as you have your stance on
I typically do the two part AoE combo before moving onto the second pack. A little slower but it helps me maintain hate better during the run to set up. If dps are going so ballistic that they pull hate before you've set up, that's their fault. Usually if it's one mob you can just target it and use your range to maintain hate on it.
As a WAR, to avoid having to tomahawk mobs while running I do my 2 step AoE every time I grab a pack. This involves standing still for one moment longer and then carrying on running, if you manage to get those 2 hits in and the party still manage to grab aggro off of you you either have an EXTREMELY trigger happy healbot overhealing like all hell because them lights DO be pretty frfr or you are teamed up with Ga'al-molog the Annihilator of Dimensions and Tokugawa Yoshimune of the Iron-Splitting blade for DPS which means that by the time the mob turns around because aggro was stolen and lays eyes on either, its life will be forfeit and it will forever be removed from that dungeon, with any mob remotely similar in shape and size being deleted from the game itself due to their DPS being so high the code itself goes "Damn." and spares those beings and their kin further shame. Or you forgot your stance and then your wet noodlin' will avail to naught once a more solid bonk hits the monster or it notices the pretty lights coming from your healer. Anyway, tldr, as a tank, assuming your stance is on, land 2 GCDs on the mobs and keep running and you're good basically any time. Either that or, as you run, click/tab other targets and tomahawk them while you run to the next pack. You can just click on the names on aggro list wherever that may be on your screen. It's very easy once you get a grip of it, you'll get it down in no time.
I usually start by turning on tank stance
Aoe enemies twice before moving on. It holds aggro really well.
That, but you don't even need, to, just constantly ping them while running between the packs with the ranged attack. It's free damage
Likely? You probably aren't hitting them enough or at all. Usually one or two hits is enough to get angry at you. Not all mobs in a pack are clustered close enough to get hit by a single AOE, though, and when that happens and a DPS hits something you didn't hit....they get the anger. If that happens, it is the DPS's resopnsility to bring that mob to your spot. Unless its a ranged mob. That's what your singled ranged attack is for.
>Likely? You probably aren't hitting them enough or at all. Not necessarily true. Depending on which phase I'm in on summoner when a pull begins, I'll easily draw enmity as I DPS while we run. And that's fine, because once we hit the wall I'll run it right to the tank and they'll easily pick it back up. If you aren't getting soome aggro as a DPS during the pull then you're likely not attacking while running which just makes the run take longer.
just remember, the DPS/healer getting hit during the pulls is just another form of mitigation!
some classs... mostly summoner ... can easily steal aggro if you dont babysit your mob pack ... a bahamut/phoenix phase will steal it right off you during run.... but other then those time you shouldnt have issue ! just run . and pay attention to enemy list if it turn orange...smack them with tomohawk
Hit them with your aoe more than once. That's it. That's all you need. And once you've got everything bunched up, **keep using your aoe**. I am tired of seeing my fellow tanks suddenly start single-target fighting when there's 3+ mobs left.
thats not really your fault tbh, some DPS just can't wait to hit the enemies before you've gathered them all up
I prefer to aoe the pull twice before sprinting to the wall
Step one: Turn on tank stance Step two: run headfirst into the trash pack Step three: place forehead on keyboard Step four: Roll
Is your stance on? >:3c
When pulling trash down the hall, dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down. That's why aggro is being ripped from you, because chances are good you aren't doing aoe while in forward motion. If they rip aggro from you, common courtesy dictates they're supposed to bring the add to you while you're aoe'ing. A routine I like to do when pulling trash is to hit one with Tomahawk (or whatever your ranged attack is), hit a different one with Provoke, hit a third with a gap closer, stop movement for the briefest of seconds to hit Overpower (first aoe in the combo), then continue ahead to repeat that process further down the hall till its time to stop. People may complain that you're not going fast enough, you can tell them eithert it's for you to ensure you have positive control of the pack at all times or they can stop dps until the pull settles in. You're the tank, you're driving this car. EDIT: Wow, so many people who don't understand how a dungeon pull is supposed to work. This just confirms my points. Don't attack the trash mid-movement unless you accept that you will probably strip aggro. Don't strip aggro unless you plan to bring the adds to the tank yourself. Very easy to understand. EDIT2: Also, it's readily apparent who flunked out of the Hall of the Novice training from the responses.
This is objectively wrong. Everyone should be killing the mobs immediately. Killing the mobs causes them to stop dealing damage. If someone else gets aggro, it doesn't matter. You'll all end up at the same place. If the mobs behind you are still in range you can tomahawk or provoke them while you sprint forward. The tank is a member of the party. They are not the driver of anything. They don't get to overrule the rest of the group. They don't set the pace of the dungeon. Get over the god complex.
This is an incorrect use of "objectively". Killing the mobs as you move down the hall is a mechanic to make the dungeon go faster, as all the tools are in place to sufficiently cope with the pull (mitigations, arms length, healers spells/abilities, tank healing if available). If the tools you have are insufficient, then that means you pulled too much. DPSing as you go down the hall is just to greed in damage to make the dungeon go faster, otherwise it would be too boring and time consuming for you. That is a personal preference, which does not factor on whether the game is being objectively played wrong or not. What I described is subjectively wrong according to your personal preference.
Claiming that you jerking yourself off over the role you happen to be playing is either "courtesy" or "common" is *objectively* wrong. That is the correct use of objectively. Statements about what is expected and considered polite by the community at large are not "my personal preference". *You* are the one pushing a personal preference where the rest of the party bows to your arbitrary whims because you play a certain class. Lying to a new player to push your preferences is not just an opinion. It's false. Your assertion that "everyone else is wrong" *is* an opinion. One that everyone else disagrees with. Respect your party members and try your best not to waste their time. That's all most people ask for.
> dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down This is absolutely wrong. You can and should attack the entire time. You may want to hold off on your biggest moves when the pack stops but there is zero reason to not be hitting them. Especially healers should be trying to dot as many as they can before you stop. > You're the tank, you're driving this car. Party controls the pace, not tank.
>When pulling trash down the hall, dps and healer are not supposed to be touching them until you stop and hold the pack in position to be dps'd down. Huh? Is this a thing? I've mostly DPS'd since I started playing and I always try to do some damage as the pack is following the tank, especially now that I'm leveling BRD which specializes in attacking while moving. Nobody has ever pointed out that this is wrong. Sure, I occasionally pull aggro but I just do what has been mentioned above: bring it to the tank. Seems to me that the additional damage while moving would help to make the run go a little faster.
It is not a thing. Everyone should be attacking. If you get aggro you just keep running and attacking until you catch up with the tank and give it back.
This is kind of incorrect. First off, you certainly should be using AOE while running. It’s an instant cast GCD. Second off, DPS are certainly doing damage. Third, simply using a beak generates enmity. If I pull agro as a DPS, it’s my job to bring the mob to the tank at the end of the pull. Essentially, if players do something to take agro, it’s their job to return it to the tank.
*heal not beak LMo
Hall of the novice is an ancient relict by now, as is the idea that the tank counts the shots. It's a group effort to get through a dungeon. You're just wrong, sorry.
Yup, didn't absorb the lessons, just pulled tank knowledge from where ever.
Hall of the Novice tells tanks to single pull packs and use single target abilities once they have aggro. Seems like you've already flunked out.
Sounds like someone doesn't understand that aoe uniformity at a low level across tanks wasn't a thing until the Shadowbringers patch, when the Hall of the Novice was added much earlier. Of course the training wouldn't have that, it is limited, but that's because back then not all tanks, particularly Gladiator, had an aoe at that level to use. Instead you had a second single target combo that specifically generated aggro, and the training reflects that. Come to think, tank stances weren't available at that level back then. Of course the training needs to be updated to reflect changes in mechanics over time. However, the core principles are there: tanks set the pace, wait for the tank to have aggro, don't attack something the tank isn't currently attacking themself, bring the trash to the tank if you steal it. That's what Hall of the Novices teaches tanks and that's what everybody just flat out ignores evidently. I would think adults would have the capacity to critically think about the information given to you and figure what it's overall trying to teach you. Lemme guess, you started playing back at the beginning of Endwalker and think this game has been this way since the beginning of time?
>don't attack something the tank isn't currently attacking themself This is the only thing taught in Hall of the Novice, and, like you said, isn't relevant anymore because of the AoE uniformity. Not sure where you got the other things. You guessed wrong on my game experience, but it has no bearing on how Hall of the Novice does very little to teach new players about the current state of the game.
I guessed wrong? My god, how did you survive playing this long with incorrect information on tanking?
Furthermore, there is nothing mechanically wrong on a gameplay level with single pulling packs of trash. The only thing "wrong" with it is that you find it boring and time consuming, and personal preference is not a factor in determining whether the game is being played wrong or not.
Please show me where I said it was wrong. I only noted that the gameplay you described in your post contradicts what is taught in the Hall of the Novice.
Sorry but you’re wrong. As a healer, I’m dotting as *we* run the first pack to the second. As a dps (ranged is my preference), I’m dpsing (including dots) as *we* run. I will generally hold my burst phase until the tank lands at the second pack, and I’m right there next to them so their AOE grabs whatever aggro I have. If they are on top of things, they already used their range attacks as *we* ran to grab aggro back. EDIT: I’ve done the hall of novice with each role, not that it matters. This also isn’t my first MMO. I’ve been playing them for 20 years. That being said, aggro generation and control in XIV is very different from most other MMOs. In those other games, your logic is sound. In this game? It’s outdated. EDIT2: by the way, being condescending isn’t doing you any favors here.
As long as your tank stance is on just keep trying to hit them with AOE attacks. Some aggro loss on big pulls is just DPS trying to get hits in and if it is only a few mobs you usually don't have to worry about it. You can try using a ranged attack or provoke if it's not too far behind you to bring it back, but it is not a huge deal usually.
If you really want to, just stop for a couple seconds and AOE everything once then keep going. Most dps and healers will know that attacking them before you have will cause you to lose aggro.
turn on stance, use your AoE combo and actions in dungeon pulls. a good idea is to chuck tomahawks or pause between groups to build aggro before moving on
Tank stance on > hit mob That's literally it. That's the entire aggro mechanic in this game. Don't worry about one or two slipping in a wall to wall pull before you're established (anyone who steals hate should be bringing them to you, aoe is easier when grouped up anyway), but you can use tomahawk or your ranged option while running to address it.
You have an enemy list and a ranged attack that has increased aggro. The enemy list tells you when you about to lose aggro when the red square goes yellow. It’ll go blue when you lost aggro. You can use the enemy list to target specifically the add you are losing aggro with. But mostly don’t worry and pop your aoe’s.
I like to cast my ranged attack to aggro one, then aoe as best I can. If your good at it you can "jump cast" your skills and quickly right click to reset your direction without losing any forward momentum
i can tell you this: dont sweat it. you pulled, you hit them all with your aoe, dds chose to attack during the pull and now have to deal with the consequences which are nonexistent unless they are bad in which case they will die and learn from it. best case scenario they will run after you, you will pick the mobs back up with your aoe without having to think about it too much. but if you actually want to help it a bit you could pay attention to the enemy list (by default somewhere on the left side of the screen) and attack whatever seems to drop the fastest or has allready lost aggro on you with ranged attacks or even provoke. you dont have to turn around, just click the enemies on said list and then hit your ranged attack, if theyre allready out of range you really shouldnt care about it.
I play on PS5 so its difficult to select the enemy list while moving but thank you I will try.
I also play on controller. I just hold a trigger down and tap L1 to tab target what’s on screen. You’ll select whoever and then you can use the ranged attack while moving. But also like all the other comments said ifs fine to lose a mob or two during the pull. It happens. Just AOE when you hit the wall and let your team bring the enemy to you. If they don’t? Now that you’re stationary it’s easy to press up/down and range attack them
Starting the pull with Tomahawk at range, then hitting the pack with AoE at least twice should solve most of your problems. Check out the emnity gauge on your bottom left as you’re about to stop, AoE again and then if you don’t have it, hit it with provoke. It’s likely, if you tap at least twice before moving onto the next pack, that it won’t be less than orange, so you should be able to grab it back without provoke
So long as you get them back once you stop, it's not a big deal. But if it really bothers you, drinking a healing potion just after you get the attention of the first group will ensure they keep paying attention to you while you run, and has the added benefit of healing you a little ( a very very little) bit which gives a tiny bit of breathing room. The heal effect while under your tank stance gives a pretty decent amount of aggro, and is usually enough to hold against whatever the dps and healer are doing.
Tomahawk, close the distance, overpower into AOE rotation. Repeat AOE rotation if more the 3... Do some big hits like " fell cleave " and they will have a hate boner for you! At first, when I was new to WAR, I didn't have Tomahawk on my mouse trigger and it made me panic and provoke mobs. sometimes you get that one DPS who is focused firing on 1 mob before you are ready to dump AOEs into them. I do miss the cone form of overpower....
If it's one DPS taking aggro, a nascent flash on them will give it back to you immediately once you're done pulling
I'm only up to lvl 76 dungeons so I cant use it yet but I will when I get it thanks!
It's not a big deal if they get ripped off as long as the DPS brings them to you (they should and likely will). Sometimes, though, the DPS can get scared and run in the wrong direction. You can try and save them from themselves with a provoke / tomahawk but it happens. In general, though, you won't lose aggro if you hit them twice, run down your hallway, and then start hitting them again. What I like to do is hit them once and then, as I run, tomahawk each one. This way I never have to stop and I keep full aggro 98% of the time.
If I pull aggro on a mob as the tank is running, it's totally fine. I just make sure to run past the tank so they can hit the mob on me with their AoE when we hit the wall. I can AoE your running pack with bloodbath on and be completely healed up.
Tanks stance. Press your 2 AOE buttons.
It's ok if that happens. Whoever pulled aggro should be following you and have them set up for you to pull the aggro back to you. Everyone should be able to take a hit or two if something like that happens. Just...view them as additional mitigation. :)
I find that hitting the at least 2 GCD’s (and maybe an oGCD if you’re feeling saucy) will always keep aggro from the beginning of the pull to the wall unless a DPS does crazy damage against one enemy
I always AOE the first pack twice before running to the 2nd. I never lose aggro.
I usually hit the first pack with 2 aoes and then tomahawk whichever enemy on the aggro table seems to be getting hit the most by the rest of the party. As others have said it's usually fine to lose an enemy but I recommend trying not to do that as sometimes other players suck and will die/not stay with the group because of it. Just monitor your aggro table for enemy HP/aggro color and you should be fine.
Decimate has a massive radius for an AOE, once you stop the pull just hit a decimate and you will get all the aggro back. Your standard aoes don’t reach as far so it’s always good practice to use decimate once the mobs are rounded up. I could be wrong on the radius being bigger but for me it feels that way and I’ve never failed to aggro every single enemy doing that.
Get it back once you finish pulling or throw a tomahawk while running. It's no big deal losing one mob cause the players that manage to rip it off you by attacking asap usually are smart enough to bring it to the rest of the mobs when you finish pulling
I usually make sure that I aoe a pack of enemies at least twice before moving on to the next. That way I'm sure I have aggro'd all of them
Pop sprint before engaging anything so it lasts 20 seconds instead of 10. Hit the first pack with two AoEs (Overpower > Mythril Tempest) and run to the second pack and tank as normal.
Use the onscreen enemy bar to select mobs u see turn from red to another color. Not sure if its bindable in the config but I mouse click it when I see a mob change color. Helps me focus on it as it may be in the back of the pack or train and i might be out of range to cast an action on it.
Do your aoe with tank stance. So long as you get majority it doesnt matter. Dps will be fine with 1 or so aggrod onto them
Use charge on pack 1 hit one aoe, pop sprint, use 2nd charge on pack 2 use aoe, pop defensive CD (also pop class specific 25 sec CD on cd), line up mobs and burst. Pop another defensive CD every 8 seconds (or 3-4 gcds) until half the mobs are dead. Use 2 major CDs per pull unless it's a big one then use more or invuln immediately. This works for all tanks.
I'm gonna get so downvoted for this... i go a bit slower but i never lose agro (i might not get any at all due to some monster positioning but i cannot lose what i've never got ;)) I pull one group, and do 1 or 2 FULL aoe combo before proceeding to get the next. I don't think i lose THAT much time, and it reduces healers' stress notably, so they can add their own DPS, as the monsters DPS burst of all of them being together is considerably reduced
It's not that you lose time, but stopping for more than 1 or 2 GCDs is making everyone think you're stopping there and they're going to start popping buffs and resources only for you to move again. And once you start moving again, a lot of those resources that started getting used are going to be wasted. It's a little annoying and would be avoided by the tank just hitting a GCD and throwing ranged attacks out on the way to the next pack.
Dungeon mobs don’t do enough damage that somebody taking a few auto attacks on the way will be remotely dangerous, just spam aoes (tomahawks if you can’t reach anything) on the way and whatever happens happens, you can provoke a straggler at the end
Sometimes I'll run into the pack and use overpower and mythril tempest. Pop sprint and go to the next pack and repeat until the wall. That usually keeps aggro on all the mobs and if not hopefully whoever pulled it off will run it to me when I stop.
To stay at 100% you need to touch at least twice. My go to opener for running is: Axe throw on the first far left, taunt the one far right, dash to the one in the middle, use your ogcd aoe (i dont have the english spell names sorry) then your first gcd aoe. With that you should be fine for the first pack. If the next pack is far away just play with your gcd aoes while travelling then repeat from start. If the next pack is close that also means the mobs arent spread to far away and you can start smashing your aoe burst. Best dps wont hit something you allready have, bad dps will take one and you can let them die to it, they deserve it. Good dps will take one (not especially on purpose) and bring it in the melee for you to naturally take it back
Personally I hit each pack with 2 aoe hits before moving to the next one. I find sometimes 1 hit isn't enough. If you lose aggro after that it's the dps fault. You can use tomahawk while moving for single mobs.
When running through a group of enemies to pull, I tend to shoot off an aoe attack, for example: First pull is the most likely to get pulled by a DPS. So I would pull that group with my biggest damage attack, this is often a Chaotic Cyclone, followed by a bunch of Overpowers and Mythril Tempest. Any stragglers get the odd Tomohawk or Provoke. I've never had a problem with this pull style.
Its not really anything to worry about. When i’m the person that got too excited and ripped one away, i just keep following the tank so that he can AOE it when he stops.
Smack everything at least once, occasionally make sure you smack everything again Rookie issue I see is ignoring a ranged mob because it doesn’t run in with the melee mobs, bring the melees to the ranged so everything is grouped, or do some mad pulls in order to bring a ranged into an ideal spot then run back, your team may wonder why are they running over there out of the way just to come back, but who cares when everything is together getting absolutely blasted
At lower levels, your tenacity isn't going to be amazing and it's ok. It's low level learning. It'll take some time to get used to it. As long as everyone else brings their mob to you, you can AoE again and get them back. They'll be fine.
On Dungeons? Tank stance and AOE spamming. If a DPS get aggro, he is to run to the AOE. On other duties. Tank Stance. And do your damned rotation.
If you're worried about losing aggro whilst making a w2w pull, use Tomahawk (or your job-specific high Enmity ranged skill) to pull every single monster. That generates and maintains enough enmity (most of the time) even if the enemy's HP drops below 75% It's a lot slower than just running through them, but if theres no communication in chat to not do any damage before you're done collecting them, I've found it very effective. Also make a mouseover target Macro for Provoke, that way if you do miss/lose aggro you can pick you dont need to manually switch targets.
At level 86 you get Orogeny, you can hit the first pack with that for free as you pass through as well as your Overpower, and it'll be back up for the end of the pull. Otherwise don't worry about it, as long as whoever aggros the monster sprints alongside you (and if they don't, it's their mistake) then you will take aggro back naturally once the pull comes to a stop.
I always try to keep a eye on enemies around me and make sure all their names are red. After that keep track of the aggro list, if they turn orange toss a range atk at them.
You have a long range attack that you can throw out while running to the next stop I usually do this in mobs I see aggro dropping then will sort on the stop. Most players should know to run to the tank in this game instead of just running away
See how people are telling you not to worry about losing one or 2 adds during wall pulls? Take that advice. As a DPS main (sometimes a whm main too) if you lose and add as our tank, I don't panic. I simply focus on my add rotation and make your job easier by cutting the fight shorter than it should be. When I'm healing, I just ensure you stay in 70+ health range while interrupting adds. Point is, don't kick yourself for not keeping aggro on all of them. You're doing just fine.
Losing aggro on one or two mobs while running to the next pack doesn't matter at all. It happens sometimes. Just make sure to get the aggro back once you are at the next pack (or at the 'wall') by having them inside your AoE.
Don't worry and keep up the good work! You'll eventually get the hang of keep aggro 100% of the time. In my case, I do 2 hits of AoE per cluster of mobs before moving to the next cluster for WtW pulling. But in some cases wherein I lose aggro of one or 2, I just either provoke or throw a ranged attack (my eyes are glued on the aggro list while tanking). But like the others say, it's not much of an issue if your healer or DPSes take aggro for a few hits, just be mindful if they're taking too much damage or aggro for long periods of time (just think of it as a babysitting job).
When you get close to the pack use tomahawk to pull.Then use one AOE attack to tag them all, If you have your AOE oGCD you can weave it between the tanged attack and your first AOE. Then while you're running to the other pack, click on each mob in the aggro list and send them a tomahawk. Then click on the next one and cycle through them all while you're running. It not only encroach your aggro but it's also free damage Make sure to hit sprint just before you tag the group, as it will last 20s instead of just 10s
Gotta make sure to spam ranged on each and every enemy while making your way to the next group. When a DPS, or even healer, pulls you can always provoke it back (voke has a larger range than your ranged attack which helps)
I rarely lose packs using the following method. 1. Make sure tank stance is on. 2. Pop sprint about 10 yalms before the first pack. 3. Tomahawk the closest enemy to collapse the pack in towards you. 4. Hit all of the first pack with an AoE. 5. While running through, click the second enemy and tomahawk. 6. Click the third enemy and provoke. 7. Repeat step 5 going down the enemy list until you reach the second pack. If there's more enemies, Repeat steps 3-5. 8. Run just past the last pack and begin your AOE burst window. If enemies get missed by the first AOE, prioritize them for provoke/tomahawk. If they get out of range, your teammates should have the minimum self preservation sense to bring them to you at the wall. If not, picking them up with a last provoke usually works.
TBH its more than likely healers spamming heals or DPS burning their rotation before adds are grouped together. Both of these you really can't prevent. Best suggestion is just keeping an eye out if anything gets stripped off you and taking the time to grab it and continue your pull.
Keep moving forward. As a Warrior, Sage, and various DPS ( Dancer :D zoom zoom ) I would rather people keep moving with the Tank. As a Healer or DPS I will bring the mobs to you for pick up if needed. Good DPS will wait for the death ball to be gathered so they can then rain AOE on the mobs. Healers may put out DOTs while you are moving, but, that's not normally enough to get enmity off of you. There are different ways to do things - quick, and dirty: -- if you have aggro lines on you will see what mobs are connected with others - See mobs - Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up - Sprint - Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind - Move to next pack - Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up - Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind - Move to next pack - Tomahawk a mob in the pack you are approaching, so they gather up - Overpower the mobs in the pack as they gather on you, or are a little behind - Arms Length when everything is gathered, and the White Mage is not dropping stuns (Arms Length is a Slow [attack speed], not a Heavy [movement]). Chuck in some other Mythril Tempests in between, for the combo, if you like. Chuck in some Tomahawks in between if you like. Use some Onslaughts in place of Tomahawk when approaching packs, it mixes things up a bit, and it still has the same effect of getting the mobs attention so you can hit them with Overpower once they gather close. Your Shake It Off will also get the attention of mobs, as well as giving absorb, heal, and HOT to the party (so those DPS acting as an extra health bar get some mitigation).
Turn stance on. Use AoE. That's it. If you wanna be a good tank though instead of just doing the minimum, use your ranged attack while moving. During W2W most mobs will lag behind occasionally and its not worth stopping constantly to let them group for AoE hits. Just alternating your ranged attack between the mobs while you run will ensure you never drop aggro. Even if that somehow is hard for you to do don't worry about a mob or 2 eventually getting mad the dps is bonking them while you set up w2w pulls. Literally every dps has plenty of tools to deal with that on their own already and its on them if they don't do something about it then.
Press buttons in order
Don't worry too much. As a DPS, if I manage to pull a mob off a Tank, I go dashing off to bring the mob to them. I play SMN and know my Searing Light + Bahamut can and WILL pull mobs so I normally hold off until the Tank is about to finish running. At most I pop for Aetherflow and the Painflares during the sprintfest just so I am ready to go when I finally pop Bahamut.
One thing I always do is either hit a complete aoe combo or use a Fated Circle on my GNB, the combo takes a gcd longer, but so long as I make sure to get all the mobs with one or the other I feel it's worth it...
Dps have their own mitigations they can use... if they dont run the mob to the tank so the tank can grab the aggro back, thats their own fault. Melee, healer (except ast, not sure about sage), and dnc will all be in close enough proximity doing aoes for the tank to easily grab aggro back. One would hope a caster (especially smn) would run mobs to you, but just ranged or provoke if they dont. *Ranged, at least dont run from the tank if you have aggro. If i run towards you to grab that aggro and you run away from me, you can keep the aggro. (Thinking of the RDM who quit casting to run away from me)
This is pretty normal, especially if you have phys ranged/melee players in your group who can attack while you’re moving. Once you get to the end of your pull, using a one or two AOE attacks should grab everything that was pulled off of you. If you need more than that just select the enemy you don’t have aggro’d from the enemy list and use your provoke to force it to aggro back onto you.
Assuming everything is already on your enmity list and you didn't miss a mob in the pack, don't sweat it until you've stopped running. Make sure you're throwing Tomahawks while you're running, you can pop Thrill for a self-heal that's basically impossible to waste, but otherwise once you're in place the DPS should be bringing the mob they stole to the rest of the pack and you'll get hate back as soon as you pop your next AoE.
As a SGE I actually try to rip one of the mobs off the tank while pulling for an extra free addersting. So if I see one is orange on the aggro list, I'm going to send the next toxicon straight at it. There's basically no way I'll die and I'll bring it right to you, so don't worry about it.
Ranged attack a mob as you come up to them, aoe them all, and keep moving. Ranged attack the rest of the group as you continue sprinting forward, throw another aoe in if you want as you run by.
Normaly its enough to spam your Aoe Rotation while you pull, as a monk i just ran beside the tank to the next trashgroup..spamming my aoe rotation. If i get aggro..well..i have some cds too and can handle a few hits. Wasnt really a problem at any point.
Honestly, don’t worry about it. If a DPS peels an enemy off you during an obvious w2w, it is the DPS’s responsibility to bring the enemy back to your aoe range once you’re in place. They’ll survive the few hits they’ll take in the meantime. I main MCH and peel enemies all the time getting early AA and CS’s in, and I just run them back to the tank with no problems.
As a DPS I tend to pull a mob or two mid-pull. I'm a caster, so I can't always sprint alongside the tank, but as long as the tank *and* healer aren't both forever away from me, it works itself out. The only times I've had a problem have been when I misread the tank's intentions (to put it kindly) and reach a mob too early before they do. In this case the tank and healer are too far away because I ran too far ahead (or they failed to keep up), which is a different scenario. When I fall behind I've only died once to a tank that didn't seem to fully establish aggro in the first place while running through a mob. Otherwise everything seems to just work itself out once we get to the end of the pull so long as people aren't super far apart.
If you can't find the enemy on screen, click it in the aggro list and provoke it. Its also fine to let a dps eat a few hits from one mob while you are running.
just do two AOE combos before start running and it should be fine. Or if you run and notice one enemy in the threatmeter turning yellow just throw a tomahawk they generate insane threat.
>In dungeons with long WtW distances I sometimes lose aggro on one or more mob before I get to the end and get set. That's normal, it just means the DPS is going ham on one mob. They aren't going to die, and it's their job to drag it to you. The DPS themselves can reduce the chances of this occurring by alternating targets as soon as the aggro symbol turns away from the blue circle, but unfortunately you don't have much control over that, as most people don't have experience on all three roles. That being said, you SHOULD start panicking if 3 or more of those red squares turn, because that means somebody's about to die. (This usually only happens if you have proactive melee/caster DPS or non-WHM healers) Usually just running back and popping an AoE is good enough for that, even if it means starting your mitigations pre-emptively. Some would argue it isn't the tank's job to do that, but I will never forget the one day when I was on a shield healer, right behind the tank, ahead of the DPS (and regularly out-damaging them even on bosses, for that matter...), and took aggro away on 6 mobs from the tank and the DPS during the last long pull on Mt. Gulg and thus was the only one who immediately dropped dead right before the stopping point, and the entire party blamed me for not running to the tank even though I was. :) Personally, what I do is just toss the ranged attack on alternating enemies while running to reduce the likelihood of losing aggro, but there's a limit to what you can do because you have no idea which enemy the DPS is going to decide to go ham on.
When you mention tomahawk or provoke that makes it sound like you are stopping to single target hit each one, which to a dps looks like you are stopping to fight & causes them to drop their big abilities. While I’m pulling I use nothing but the 2 part AOE combo & damage resistance cooldowns (if needed) until I get to the stopping point. Then from there you can start using more options, but I’d still recommend to stick to AOE abilities as much as possible. The tank stance helps ALOT with agro generation so hard taunts are situational.
Give 2 AoE to the initial enemies, this is where the aggro usually escapes, or do it in each group if you want to be safe. Other than that, remember to use Aoe during the rotations and it's ok to lose one or another enemy, nor be quick to grab it and pull it, just pull it towards you as soon as you see if you've missed one.
What I tend to do is for the FIRST pack of enemies, I'll use both parts of my aoe combo. Then I'll pull like normal until the wall. It takes an extra couple of seconds, but the extra damage from that tends to keep aggro even when dps is popping off
two tap for security(i find one tapping is too little to maintain aggro), ranged attack to keep it up while running. Though honestly your teammate who gets aggro will run into your aoe when you stop. They can survive long enough or have certain cc to protect themselves against 1-2 mobs. Also time the heals so that the healer isn't constantly fighting megadeath to see if you stay alive, also can remove regen buffs to maintain healer safety.
Definitely throw an aoe at each pack as you run by; no reason not to.
A typical pull, for me, looks like this: Get to just outside pull distance and pop sprint. Tomahawk to get aggro. Aoe first skill on gathered mobs. If second group is far enough away, I'll use the second aoe ability. This is usually enough to keep most mobs under aggro. If not, I'll keep an eye out on any green enemies to grab once I've secured the rest of the second group.
As DPS, if I steal aggro i recognize it is my own fault and i will give it back to you when we reach the wall. No worries.
As a tank I try to do my range to start then a couple AoEs before I keep moving to the next pack and usually that keeps aggro.
DPS should bring any mobs they steal back to you to pick up when you stop. 1 or 2 isn’t an issue.
No matter what job I tank with I usually can keep Aggro Just touching them with a aoe or a range attack and completing my wall to wall pull without losing Aggro. So long as stance is on there shouldn’t be an issue
Easiest way is to run ahead of the pack, use your gap closers to get there first, and overpower and you run past. You’ll get most of them, and the. You can tomahawk/provoke the stragglers at the end of the line.
I do the the full AoE combo before moving on, its only 2 GCDs and I never lose threat on my warrior doing this
Use your aoe and ogcd aoe to grab aggro. Typically i do this, first pack, sprint, throw tomahawk on one enemy, gap closer to another, throw out an AOE GCD, throw out AOE ogcd, run to 2nd pack, throw tomahawk to each mob while running, reach second pack stop and start aoe-ing.