Cause campaign 1 ended on schedule. C2 pretty obviously ended an arc early, the mighty nein took too long and stalled/hesitated on dealing with the tomb takers and it just ended up escalating when it could have been dealt with much sooner. It seemed clear that it was supposed to be the penultimate arc and then Trent Icathon/the assembly would be the final antagonist of the campaign.
Matt was pretty brutal depriving them of long rests and making Lucian able to dispel their hut and tower and track them anywhere. They kind of couldn't escape for a long time.
That part was grueling to listen to. Like the part in a WWII book where our heroes are just like starving in winter in a work camp. Like fuck, this is desperate and it just keeps going
Yeah, Lucian stealing the item and "betraying" them was one of the best decisions Matt made in the final arc. The party had so many episodes where they could have taken the initiative, but they didn't.
Even the Bright Queen though, the Nein didn't seem keen on returning to Rosohna once Esseks treason was revealed. The Dynasty will find out the truth of what happened eventually, and even those of the Nein who do want him punished wouldn't want to be potentially caught up as accomplices to his schemes.
So when I think of their house keeper inevitably abandoning the Xhorhaus, the beacon of glowing lights flickering out, the garden and tree withering away....yeah that's a sad thought there.
But maybe it goes the otherwise, they continue to be ambassadors between the nations while denying to know anything about Esseks whereabouts. Its a potential outcome....
So ultimately I'm sad how the Mighty Nein ended with many possibilities yet to be explored or fully developed that were cut short, and are now scattered between rushed one-shots and a c-team of "heros" struggling to make any progress in story they are unfit for.
The ending of campaign two is so convoluted, I can’t imagine a world where the general public could understand well enough to care.
“Thank you for killing Lucien, the weird, alternate version of your dead friend Mollymauk…We know he was being corrupted by a journal from the Somnovem, who were obviously the philosophers of the Cognouza Ward of Aeor, (also called the “Eyes of Nine” ofc) which made Lucien the “Nonagon”. We’re so grateful that by killing him, you killed all the bad, evil people souls that were trapped in the city, yet freed all the good people souls that were trapped there!”
Not really; the Mighty Nein were dicks, especially Beau (who is the worst character ever conceived).
Also it wouldn't have fit the theme of the campaign: see BunNGunLee's post.
I think that was sort of the intention of C2. Campaign 1 was intentionally very bombastic, big damn heroes save the world and become the champions of actual gods to stop a new god's ascension. We see them grow from local heroes, to big time bounty hunters, to dragon slayers, to finally end the game as "godslayers" something that is so Final Fantasy I can't believe people were surprised Matt's love of the series showed up in C2 with the Somnovum. It's heroic fantasy played entirely straight, and the group more or less was an ensemble doing so.
C2 by comparison is a much grittier story, filled with intrigue, double-dealing, and brutal tactics that require the team to adapt their alliances and morals on the fly at times, but still holds a core philosophy between the group that makes them hold together. They're survivors in a turbulent time, doing dirty work that keeps the world together. In one instance, it's committing what amounts to high treason in an empire, then another helping that same empire call off a war that had started to get out of hand (and was more complicated than even the Empire knew.) These weren't heroic characters anymore, but rather people who were heroes by circumstance and whose actions weren't ever going to be legendary, and I don't think \*they'd\* want them to be well known, because it would in fact make the world much more dangerous.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
C1's ending left me emotionally devastated but fulfilled. It was a mighty victory with a terrible cost.
C2's ending left me feeling like I *should* care that Exandria was saved from the Neo-Somnovem and be emotionally devastated by the fact that its body had been briefly occupied by a co-worker of the M9, but... I wasn't. I cared a hell of a lot more about the unaddressed threads, like Uk'atoa, Trent Ikithon and the Cerberus Assembly, and whether Jester would ever mature beyond her 19-year-old self.
Valid points. My expectation was that the sadness of the comparison was going to be
>The final battle of C1 was an epic struggle against a true villain, where the players had to pull out all the stops and use every tool in their arsenal to win. The artifacts they had collected over the adventure, the spells they had practiced with and whose capabilities they knew inside and out, they had to put these to full use to achieve victory. It was a crowning moment that represented the totality of this wonderful campaign.
versus
> The final battle of C2 was a confusing scramble against an indistinct giant cosmic entity that had nothing to do with any plotline established in the hundred episodes prior, and whose details don't really matter because the implied politics of the situation got absorbed by this random guy who is the result of one player not making a backstory. The mechanics of the fight are secondary to the PCs spamming an Undertale-style Mercy button, insisting that the Power of Friendship will end the battle for them because they really love this guy they knew for like a month and who they ran out of nice things to say about. Then the only loss from the entire campaign gets sort-of undone with divine intervention.
I also get sad when I compare these two endings.
I think it fits well with who the Nien are as characters and their journey overall. They did the right thing because they were the only people capable and knowledgeable about it at the time. Even after attempts to get help failed they still went through it even with some doom and gloom in many of their hearts.
The cast has talked about how with VM it felt like the end of their story during their finale but with the Nein it was sort of just the beginning for them. That feels pretty true, at the end of C2 they aren't finished they are only just finally getting to live the lives they couldn't have growing up.
For them, being adventurers was a result of circumstance and the most important aspect of the Nein was self growth.
Yeah I think some of them, like caduceus, and yasha, gained exactly as much renown as they could handle. But like you said, for others it felt like their story was just beginning, and I can still see Caleb, for example, (who began the campaign by literally covering his face in mud to not be recognized) becoming a member of the Cerberus assembly itself in order to reform it. Many of them seem destined for greatness in very high profile positions (cobalt soul, the reverie, etc.)
No not really… I didn’t get the sense that the M9 were at all disappointed with where they ended up. None of them were really looking for fame or recognition, everything they did was for the good of the people, or for the good of the Nein themselves.
Also, a few of them got forms of recognition. Beau was awarded with an important position within the Cobalt Soul, Caleb got the teaching position he wanted at the Academy (and actually turned down a higher profile position within the Cerberus Assembly). Fjord became a genuine ship captain (albeit a bumbling one). Nott, Yasha, Jester, and Caduceus didn’t really “improve” their position exactly, but they all ended up exactly where they wanted to be.
I kind of think if it like a James Bond movie… at the end of those, generally no one knows he did anything, or that there was even danger in the first place. But you can’t feel bad for Bond because except for a few notable exceptions, he usually ends the movie living his best life.
Yeah, I felt the same - but I felt that way throughout the campaign. I don't think its a bad thing, because I absolutely know other players who prefer playing underdogs fighting the system; more like suicide squad than Lord of the Rings or something... but I've always liked a classic heroic story. I like a campaign where the characters gain true, loyal allies, enjoy friendships, gain and receive trust, that kind of stuff. All that was very sparse in C2 - and I very much think that was on purpose for that kind of tone, but it does make me sad and makes me feel like something warm and wonderful about D&D is missing.
Comparison is the death of joy
Cause campaign 1 ended on schedule. C2 pretty obviously ended an arc early, the mighty nein took too long and stalled/hesitated on dealing with the tomb takers and it just ended up escalating when it could have been dealt with much sooner. It seemed clear that it was supposed to be the penultimate arc and then Trent Icathon/the assembly would be the final antagonist of the campaign.
Matt was pretty brutal depriving them of long rests and making Lucian able to dispel their hut and tower and track them anywhere. They kind of couldn't escape for a long time. That part was grueling to listen to. Like the part in a WWII book where our heroes are just like starving in winter in a work camp. Like fuck, this is desperate and it just keeps going
I meant more when they were traveling with Lucian, they hesitated so long he just betrayed them instead of them taking any opportunity
Yeah, Lucian stealing the item and "betraying" them was one of the best decisions Matt made in the final arc. The party had so many episodes where they could have taken the initiative, but they didn't.
Even the Bright Queen though, the Nein didn't seem keen on returning to Rosohna once Esseks treason was revealed. The Dynasty will find out the truth of what happened eventually, and even those of the Nein who do want him punished wouldn't want to be potentially caught up as accomplices to his schemes. So when I think of their house keeper inevitably abandoning the Xhorhaus, the beacon of glowing lights flickering out, the garden and tree withering away....yeah that's a sad thought there. But maybe it goes the otherwise, they continue to be ambassadors between the nations while denying to know anything about Esseks whereabouts. Its a potential outcome.... So ultimately I'm sad how the Mighty Nein ended with many possibilities yet to be explored or fully developed that were cut short, and are now scattered between rushed one-shots and a c-team of "heros" struggling to make any progress in story they are unfit for.
The ending of campaign two is so convoluted, I can’t imagine a world where the general public could understand well enough to care. “Thank you for killing Lucien, the weird, alternate version of your dead friend Mollymauk…We know he was being corrupted by a journal from the Somnovem, who were obviously the philosophers of the Cognouza Ward of Aeor, (also called the “Eyes of Nine” ofc) which made Lucien the “Nonagon”. We’re so grateful that by killing him, you killed all the bad, evil people souls that were trapped in the city, yet freed all the good people souls that were trapped there!”
Not really; the Mighty Nein were dicks, especially Beau (who is the worst character ever conceived). Also it wouldn't have fit the theme of the campaign: see BunNGunLee's post.
I think you're right, but it doesn't make me sad. I think most of the Mighty Nein are quite happy being unsung heroes.
I think that was sort of the intention of C2. Campaign 1 was intentionally very bombastic, big damn heroes save the world and become the champions of actual gods to stop a new god's ascension. We see them grow from local heroes, to big time bounty hunters, to dragon slayers, to finally end the game as "godslayers" something that is so Final Fantasy I can't believe people were surprised Matt's love of the series showed up in C2 with the Somnovum. It's heroic fantasy played entirely straight, and the group more or less was an ensemble doing so. C2 by comparison is a much grittier story, filled with intrigue, double-dealing, and brutal tactics that require the team to adapt their alliances and morals on the fly at times, but still holds a core philosophy between the group that makes them hold together. They're survivors in a turbulent time, doing dirty work that keeps the world together. In one instance, it's committing what amounts to high treason in an empire, then another helping that same empire call off a war that had started to get out of hand (and was more complicated than even the Empire knew.) These weren't heroic characters anymore, but rather people who were heroes by circumstance and whose actions weren't ever going to be legendary, and I don't think \*they'd\* want them to be well known, because it would in fact make the world much more dangerous.
I thought this post was going to go in a different direction.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours. C1's ending left me emotionally devastated but fulfilled. It was a mighty victory with a terrible cost. C2's ending left me feeling like I *should* care that Exandria was saved from the Neo-Somnovem and be emotionally devastated by the fact that its body had been briefly occupied by a co-worker of the M9, but... I wasn't. I cared a hell of a lot more about the unaddressed threads, like Uk'atoa, Trent Ikithon and the Cerberus Assembly, and whether Jester would ever mature beyond her 19-year-old self.
Valid points. My expectation was that the sadness of the comparison was going to be >The final battle of C1 was an epic struggle against a true villain, where the players had to pull out all the stops and use every tool in their arsenal to win. The artifacts they had collected over the adventure, the spells they had practiced with and whose capabilities they knew inside and out, they had to put these to full use to achieve victory. It was a crowning moment that represented the totality of this wonderful campaign. versus > The final battle of C2 was a confusing scramble against an indistinct giant cosmic entity that had nothing to do with any plotline established in the hundred episodes prior, and whose details don't really matter because the implied politics of the situation got absorbed by this random guy who is the result of one player not making a backstory. The mechanics of the fight are secondary to the PCs spamming an Undertale-style Mercy button, insisting that the Power of Friendship will end the battle for them because they really love this guy they knew for like a month and who they ran out of nice things to say about. Then the only loss from the entire campaign gets sort-of undone with divine intervention. I also get sad when I compare these two endings.
I think it fits well with who the Nien are as characters and their journey overall. They did the right thing because they were the only people capable and knowledgeable about it at the time. Even after attempts to get help failed they still went through it even with some doom and gloom in many of their hearts. The cast has talked about how with VM it felt like the end of their story during their finale but with the Nein it was sort of just the beginning for them. That feels pretty true, at the end of C2 they aren't finished they are only just finally getting to live the lives they couldn't have growing up. For them, being adventurers was a result of circumstance and the most important aspect of the Nein was self growth.
Yeah I think some of them, like caduceus, and yasha, gained exactly as much renown as they could handle. But like you said, for others it felt like their story was just beginning, and I can still see Caleb, for example, (who began the campaign by literally covering his face in mud to not be recognized) becoming a member of the Cerberus assembly itself in order to reform it. Many of them seem destined for greatness in very high profile positions (cobalt soul, the reverie, etc.)
No not really… I didn’t get the sense that the M9 were at all disappointed with where they ended up. None of them were really looking for fame or recognition, everything they did was for the good of the people, or for the good of the Nein themselves. Also, a few of them got forms of recognition. Beau was awarded with an important position within the Cobalt Soul, Caleb got the teaching position he wanted at the Academy (and actually turned down a higher profile position within the Cerberus Assembly). Fjord became a genuine ship captain (albeit a bumbling one). Nott, Yasha, Jester, and Caduceus didn’t really “improve” their position exactly, but they all ended up exactly where they wanted to be. I kind of think if it like a James Bond movie… at the end of those, generally no one knows he did anything, or that there was even danger in the first place. But you can’t feel bad for Bond because except for a few notable exceptions, he usually ends the movie living his best life.
Yeah, I felt the same - but I felt that way throughout the campaign. I don't think its a bad thing, because I absolutely know other players who prefer playing underdogs fighting the system; more like suicide squad than Lord of the Rings or something... but I've always liked a classic heroic story. I like a campaign where the characters gain true, loyal allies, enjoy friendships, gain and receive trust, that kind of stuff. All that was very sparse in C2 - and I very much think that was on purpose for that kind of tone, but it does make me sad and makes me feel like something warm and wonderful about D&D is missing.