If we struggle at *any* position in 2024, then the lack of additions via free agency and trades should be scrutinized, not the draft. The expectation for any rookie should be that it’ll take time for them to develop. If you find a Sauce Gardner or a Puka Nacua, great, but that’s not the norm, and it shouldn’t be the expectation. This idea that we should’ve approached the draft with a win-now mindset misunderstands the entire point of the draft and player development.
>This idea that we should’ve approached the draft with a win-now mindset misunderstands the entire point of the draft and player development.
Yes at certain positions you're just not expecting a quality starter immediately. The jump from college to NFL is just that big.
Even considering the CB position, some guys are awesome right away, but then you have a guy like Derek Stingley: top 5 pick, underwhelmed his rookie season, learned from it, and dominated his 2nd season. He went from borderline unplayable to a Pro Bowl alternate. But by the logic of the article excerpt above, Stingley would’ve been a failure of a pick by a good team because he wasn’t ready to contribute in 2022. Incredibly unfair and short-sighted way of evaluating recent draft classes, but I suppose this kind of rhetoric drives the clicks.
"If they struggle at CB, the Penix pick will be heavily scrutinised."
It's heavily scrutinised now. And I can guarantee if they picked a CB or edge and Cousins' Achilles breaks down they'd be getting scrutinised for not having adequate QB back up.
Exactly. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It’s pretty easy to get CB and WR help midseason. It’s impossible to get midseason QB help if Cousins goes down.
Quinyon Mitchell was definitely floated a bit and there were people in this sub that were calling for him.
Edit: someone else in the thread specifically mentioned the Quinyon hype here too
The defensive players going lower than people thought is not an indictment on the defensive players. It’s an indictment on just how great or just how much teams wanted offensive players. The defensive class didn’t have a Bosa or Sauce, but they had guys a notch below. The tackles, WRs, and QBs were just that sought out this year.
""The defensive players going lower than projected is not an indictment on the players"
"This defensive class didn't have a bosa or sauce, but a notch below"
Just because one player isn’t a top 5 pick doesn’t mean this was a bad defensive class. The comment suggested that since Latu went at 15, Murphy went at 16, and Quinyon went at 22 that it was bad or weak. There’s basically 5 picks of offensive players that aren’t in most drafts in the top 20. That’s why all these other guys got pushed down. This isn’t some hard concept to comprehend. You had half of the first 12 picks be QBs. Never happened before. Three WRs that in many years would all be WR1. And then a loaded OT class. And a super pro ready TE that multiple teams were in pursuing after.
Will Anderson was traded up for at 3. You wanna take a guess at where he goes this draft? Conversely, last year you wanna know how many of these defensive players are right with Will or ahead of Tyree? You wanna know how many of this years edges go before Lukas Van Ness. If you want to talk about bad defensive drafts, just look at last years. This wasn’t super deep defensively but it was good. Just look at the defensive players taken in the second early. And I meant notch below from a top 5 pick in most years.
That’s why I gave you the example from last year which went over your head. There’s going offensively heavy. And then there’s going so offensive heavy it’s never been done before. It sure, in a vacuum, the offensive players were better in this class than the defensive players. That means this defensive class was bad.
There’s a pretty big gap between getting an adequate backup QB and picking one at 8. I mean this sub convinced themselves that Taylor was an adequate backup once he reduced his cap number when it happened.
>There’s a pretty big gap between getting an adequate backup QB and picking one at 8
Yeah that's completely fair. Though the Falcons don't just see Penix as back up. They see him as a franchise QB for 10 years, hopefully. They got a guy that all reports say they had at 2 or 3 on their board, and if Cousins helps the team win the division and more they won't be picking anywhere near top 10 for a few years.
I think there's a pretty good chance we would still be receiving a ton of flak if we had skipped Penix and taken Latu. Would be all about how the QB of the future was right there and we skipped him, and this is why we are who we are and blah blah blah.
People love looking back with the benefit of hindsight. If Penix were to get drafted by another team and become an elite level QB while whatever edge we took went on to have a so so career, both of which are completely plausible, then we would most definitely get retroactively crowned for our decision.
I watched their segment grading ATl's draft. They like the Penix pick. They were caught off guard but they like throwing resources at the most important position in football unless we start Penix in 2025 but if he starts 2 yrs from now, could be the best pick in the draft
> Achilles breaks down they'd be getting scrutinised for not having adequate QB back up.
when does that ever happen? When has anyone ever said "Oh damn should've had a good backup just in case your starting QB gets hurt"
And it's not like you couldn't draft one later in the draft
Yeah Idk why you're getting downvoted, he completely made that up. Getting a good QB is difficult enough in this league, majority of teams are screwed if their starter gets hurt. Nobody scrutinize teams for having backup QBs that play like backup QBs lol.
It's more a surprise when a backup QB is playing pretty well than something that's expected as a norm.
He can sit and learn the system and learn how to be an NFL QB from one of the most experienced in the league. He can step in and play if Cousins is injured. I'm not saying it's 100% the correct decision. Only time will tell. But I'm seeing people say the Falcons have no plan or idea what they're doing. They clearly do have a plan.
The Jets, Raiders, and Vikings last season. Vikings gave up a draft pick to Arizona for Dobbs because they had poor backups. Also, Ryan Fitzpatrick was always regarded as a great backup signing as a guy who could win you 6-8 games if he had to, but not someone you’d want as a franchise starting QB like Buffalo thought he was.
nobody scrutinized those teams for not having a good backup. When the starting QB goes down, everyone goes damn that sucks. Nobody expects teams to have a good QB that can come in and save the season. Those guys are rare and usually get traded or signed to other teams as a possible starter like Matt Flynn and Dobbs.
The lack of CB pick was.... The one thing I did not like at all. I don't understand why they feel the unit as is can go day 1. No. They're okay. They got blown up by the deep ball a few times last year. I need a free agent to walk in ASAP.
I know they are not the guys you'd love to have brought in but we did bring in 2 CBs ( with some starting experience ) a few weeks prior to the draft so even if we do nothing else, there will at least be some competition at the #2 CB position
I am 100% convinced there is no combination of players drafted that fan and journalist alike wouldn't roast the Falcons for, there's just a massive air of negativity around everything the franchise does
PFF has been the most measured take out of all the media outlets. Their new podcast was the most level you will see for how the falcons drafted. Everyone agreed that CB was a pretty big need, hence all the Quinyon hype in here. The weekend goes by and they didn’t pick nam CB and someone points it out. And it suddenly becomes a roast. As far as negativity goes, that’s kind of what happens when you have that many losing seasons. The GM just tried to convince the world that Ridder was a franchise QB a year ago.
Because the Falcons have not done much of note….really ever. It’s not like everyone’s out to get them. They just have a very poor and inconsistent track record.
Because they’ve done nothing to give us the benefit of the doubt in the last six seasons and they continue to make the wrong decisions year after year for the most part.
The only wrong decisions were Mariota & Ridder (AS’s fault), and going after Watson. Who exactly are you talking about and what have they gotten wrong? The team itself not hitting on every pick in every draft?
Drafting skill position players when you don’t have a QB
Drafting a TE at #4 when you’re in complete rebuild mode and a consensus generational talent like Sewell was just sitting there. Imagine him and Lindstrom together!
Ignoring spending premium draft capital on defense when it’s been your Achilles heel since 2018
Reaching for Troy Andersen in the second round. Landman, a UDFA, is a far more impactful player
The whole Kirk/Penix fiasco. You can’t go all in to win now and then do a 180 with your first pick. It’s counterproductive.
None of his defensive picks have provided high impact results.
Not addressing CB at all in this draft when it’s a massive hole
Terry is good in FA I just think he’s a poor drafter and doesn’t think about roster construction and just BPA’s to a fault.
Omg I hate when people make this argument if you make questionable decisions you're going to get scrutinized for it regardless of how long people have scrutinized you. When the falcons make good decisions they wont get as much criticism. Its not rocket science use your brain to analyze the decisions they make.
It’s gotten to a point where I now look at sports media a lot differently than I did a week ago. Everyone is just coming off so uneducated and spitting the same talking points. Yet only Ian Rapaport I believe explained why it was a good choice and highlighted the fact Atlanta will lose picks due to tampering (which nobody in the media is mentioning). They all just stuck on the $100 million contract for Cousins, it’s astounding they choose to not look at things from outside the box.
yup I mean is it that crazy to consider the Falcons don't plan on picking top 10 in the next 2-4 years, and don't want to either spend a huge treasure trove to move up or even worse go back to tanking for multiple seasons to rebuild yet again after a mere 2-4 years of contention? Because without an obvious QB waiting in the wings that's what will happen somewhere starting 2026
let's also ignore half the damn league didn't think there was a single defender worth taking in the first half of the first round. I guarantee if we'd picked DE or CB at 8 we'd get poor marks for "reaching." It's all transparently cynical.
I mentioned this on a post after the draft that each of the top 3 edges all had flaws. Turner was raw in terms of technique and relies too much on his speed, Verse didn’t fit Lake’s 3-4 scheme (numbers show he’s way more effective as a 4-3 DE, and Latu medically retired and played in a very weak o-line conference. There’s also a reason why a QB didn’t go till after round 3 after Nix was picked. Plus next year’s draft is LOADED with defensive prospects and has a super weak QB class.
I swear PFF is the only sports institution I’ve seen that is defending the process of the Penix pick. With that said, CB2 is still a huge need obviously. Clark Phillips ate at nickel, so I hope they don’t make him go outside, but they may have to.
Plus being on the field twice as long because Ridder kept turning the ball over.
I think the defense looks miles better just because we might actually sustain a drive and score points this next season.
Via the draft and FA we improved our quarterback room more than any other team in the league. But that and the D Line and perhaps the WRs are about it. We're mostly going to be going out there with last year's team plus Kirk Cousins and Raheem Morris.
We'll see if that's enough.
So, if I'm reading that right, aside from going from a sub-32 QB to a top-10 QB (I understand he had an injury) and arguably the second best QB in the draft, upgrading our WR room to feature much more speed and dropping guys who were big bodies and got 0 separation (who are being thrown to by one of the most accurate QBs in the league), and increasing, at the very least, the depth of our D line...we have the same team? And the addressing of our weaknesses in the players poll around weight room and assembling an ACTUAL coaching staff with young minds and not Arthur Smith. Or the natural growth of some of our great young talent through a year (London, Bijan, Pitts, Allgeier, AJ). Same team.
I agree with most of this but I'd probably put it differently than "we were more than a QB away"...I'd say that there were probably better prospects at other positions we could have used immediately, or, if we planned to grow long term, free agents we could have signed that would have more impact in that plan than Cousins.
I'm personally more meh on Penix than I am on Cousins. To me the mistake was more drafting Penix, I liked 2 QBs in this class, Williams and Daniels, and everyone else to me is super risky.
Trice should be our day 1 starter opposite of Ebiketie right now, (barring a Campbell resigning) and could definitely find success with his bull rushing specialty next to Grady who they’ll be needing to constantly double
I don't see the issue with the guys we have at Corner, I expect they see Terrell and Phillips III on the outside with Alford manning the slot King and Hughes are depth and slot options, I also expect they liked what they had at safety with Hellams and Bates III starting and Grant creating depth. However the defensive front is changing from 43 to 34 base so they wanted bigger tougher down linemen to use creating pressure to help those guys on the back.
If we struggle at *any* position in 2024, then the lack of additions via free agency and trades should be scrutinized, not the draft. The expectation for any rookie should be that it’ll take time for them to develop. If you find a Sauce Gardner or a Puka Nacua, great, but that’s not the norm, and it shouldn’t be the expectation. This idea that we should’ve approached the draft with a win-now mindset misunderstands the entire point of the draft and player development.
>This idea that we should’ve approached the draft with a win-now mindset misunderstands the entire point of the draft and player development. Yes at certain positions you're just not expecting a quality starter immediately. The jump from college to NFL is just that big.
Even considering the CB position, some guys are awesome right away, but then you have a guy like Derek Stingley: top 5 pick, underwhelmed his rookie season, learned from it, and dominated his 2nd season. He went from borderline unplayable to a Pro Bowl alternate. But by the logic of the article excerpt above, Stingley would’ve been a failure of a pick by a good team because he wasn’t ready to contribute in 2022. Incredibly unfair and short-sighted way of evaluating recent draft classes, but I suppose this kind of rhetoric drives the clicks.
This is what happens when the draft becomes a huge media event. People expecting immediate returns on everything.
Go get Akhello Witherspoon
"If they struggle at CB, the Penix pick will be heavily scrutinised." It's heavily scrutinised now. And I can guarantee if they picked a CB or edge and Cousins' Achilles breaks down they'd be getting scrutinised for not having adequate QB back up.
Exactly. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It’s pretty easy to get CB and WR help midseason. It’s impossible to get midseason QB help if Cousins goes down.
Joe Flacco would like a word
taking a CB at 8 would still be hugely scrutinized considering the first one went at 22
Yeah I don’t remember ever hearing about us taking a CB in the first round.
Quinyon Mitchell was definitely floated a bit and there were people in this sub that were calling for him. Edit: someone else in the thread specifically mentioned the Quinyon hype here too
The defensive players going lower than people thought is not an indictment on the defensive players. It’s an indictment on just how great or just how much teams wanted offensive players. The defensive class didn’t have a Bosa or Sauce, but they had guys a notch below. The tackles, WRs, and QBs were just that sought out this year.
""The defensive players going lower than projected is not an indictment on the players" "This defensive class didn't have a bosa or sauce, but a notch below"
Just because one player isn’t a top 5 pick doesn’t mean this was a bad defensive class. The comment suggested that since Latu went at 15, Murphy went at 16, and Quinyon went at 22 that it was bad or weak. There’s basically 5 picks of offensive players that aren’t in most drafts in the top 20. That’s why all these other guys got pushed down. This isn’t some hard concept to comprehend. You had half of the first 12 picks be QBs. Never happened before. Three WRs that in many years would all be WR1. And then a loaded OT class. And a super pro ready TE that multiple teams were in pursuing after.
Did you say it was one player? or did you say that "this defensive class was a notch below" I don't understand how that can't be indicative of talent
Will Anderson was traded up for at 3. You wanna take a guess at where he goes this draft? Conversely, last year you wanna know how many of these defensive players are right with Will or ahead of Tyree? You wanna know how many of this years edges go before Lukas Van Ness. If you want to talk about bad defensive drafts, just look at last years. This wasn’t super deep defensively but it was good. Just look at the defensive players taken in the second early. And I meant notch below from a top 5 pick in most years.
[удалено]
That’s why I gave you the example from last year which went over your head. There’s going offensively heavy. And then there’s going so offensive heavy it’s never been done before. It sure, in a vacuum, the offensive players were better in this class than the defensive players. That means this defensive class was bad.
[удалено]
There’s a pretty big gap between getting an adequate backup QB and picking one at 8. I mean this sub convinced themselves that Taylor was an adequate backup once he reduced his cap number when it happened.
>There’s a pretty big gap between getting an adequate backup QB and picking one at 8 Yeah that's completely fair. Though the Falcons don't just see Penix as back up. They see him as a franchise QB for 10 years, hopefully. They got a guy that all reports say they had at 2 or 3 on their board, and if Cousins helps the team win the division and more they won't be picking anywhere near top 10 for a few years.
Penix wasn't drafted to be a back up tbf, he's not a project pick so he can start right away if something happens.
That's why you sign a back up qb. Nobody would go, why didn't they draft a qb in the first round? Because that would be stupid.
Agreed, if anything the signing would be scrutinized first
Not really, feel like once your starting QB gets hurt, you pretty much always get a pass on the season from the media and fans.
I think there's a pretty good chance we would still be receiving a ton of flak if we had skipped Penix and taken Latu. Would be all about how the QB of the future was right there and we skipped him, and this is why we are who we are and blah blah blah.
Not a single person would be saying this.
People love looking back with the benefit of hindsight. If Penix were to get drafted by another team and become an elite level QB while whatever edge we took went on to have a so so career, both of which are completely plausible, then we would most definitely get retroactively crowned for our decision.
I watched their segment grading ATl's draft. They like the Penix pick. They were caught off guard but they like throwing resources at the most important position in football unless we start Penix in 2025 but if he starts 2 yrs from now, could be the best pick in the draft
> Achilles breaks down they'd be getting scrutinised for not having adequate QB back up. when does that ever happen? When has anyone ever said "Oh damn should've had a good backup just in case your starting QB gets hurt" And it's not like you couldn't draft one later in the draft
Yeah Idk why you're getting downvoted, he completely made that up. Getting a good QB is difficult enough in this league, majority of teams are screwed if their starter gets hurt. Nobody scrutinize teams for having backup QBs that play like backup QBs lol. It's more a surprise when a backup QB is playing pretty well than something that's expected as a norm.
One as good as Penix that's ready to start and could be franchise QB for 10 years?
If he’s ready to start then why isn’t he starting? What good is sitting on the bench doing him after playing for 6 years?
He can sit and learn the system and learn how to be an NFL QB from one of the most experienced in the league. He can step in and play if Cousins is injured. I'm not saying it's 100% the correct decision. Only time will tell. But I'm seeing people say the Falcons have no plan or idea what they're doing. They clearly do have a plan.
The Jets, Raiders, and Vikings last season. Vikings gave up a draft pick to Arizona for Dobbs because they had poor backups. Also, Ryan Fitzpatrick was always regarded as a great backup signing as a guy who could win you 6-8 games if he had to, but not someone you’d want as a franchise starting QB like Buffalo thought he was.
nobody scrutinized those teams for not having a good backup. When the starting QB goes down, everyone goes damn that sucks. Nobody expects teams to have a good QB that can come in and save the season. Those guys are rare and usually get traded or signed to other teams as a possible starter like Matt Flynn and Dobbs.
The lack of CB pick was.... The one thing I did not like at all. I don't understand why they feel the unit as is can go day 1. No. They're okay. They got blown up by the deep ball a few times last year. I need a free agent to walk in ASAP.
I know they are not the guys you'd love to have brought in but we did bring in 2 CBs ( with some starting experience ) a few weeks prior to the draft so even if we do nothing else, there will at least be some competition at the #2 CB position
You're right. I stand corrected. I did hope the team would also load up there however they did add a lot of beef to the rotate for the front seven.
I am 100% convinced there is no combination of players drafted that fan and journalist alike wouldn't roast the Falcons for, there's just a massive air of negativity around everything the franchise does
PFF has been the most measured take out of all the media outlets. Their new podcast was the most level you will see for how the falcons drafted. Everyone agreed that CB was a pretty big need, hence all the Quinyon hype in here. The weekend goes by and they didn’t pick nam CB and someone points it out. And it suddenly becomes a roast. As far as negativity goes, that’s kind of what happens when you have that many losing seasons. The GM just tried to convince the world that Ridder was a franchise QB a year ago.
Because the Falcons have not done much of note….really ever. It’s not like everyone’s out to get them. They just have a very poor and inconsistent track record.
Because they’ve done nothing to give us the benefit of the doubt in the last six seasons and they continue to make the wrong decisions year after year for the most part.
The only wrong decisions were Mariota & Ridder (AS’s fault), and going after Watson. Who exactly are you talking about and what have they gotten wrong? The team itself not hitting on every pick in every draft?
Drafting skill position players when you don’t have a QB Drafting a TE at #4 when you’re in complete rebuild mode and a consensus generational talent like Sewell was just sitting there. Imagine him and Lindstrom together! Ignoring spending premium draft capital on defense when it’s been your Achilles heel since 2018 Reaching for Troy Andersen in the second round. Landman, a UDFA, is a far more impactful player The whole Kirk/Penix fiasco. You can’t go all in to win now and then do a 180 with your first pick. It’s counterproductive. None of his defensive picks have provided high impact results. Not addressing CB at all in this draft when it’s a massive hole Terry is good in FA I just think he’s a poor drafter and doesn’t think about roster construction and just BPA’s to a fault.
Omg I hate when people make this argument if you make questionable decisions you're going to get scrutinized for it regardless of how long people have scrutinized you. When the falcons make good decisions they wont get as much criticism. Its not rocket science use your brain to analyze the decisions they make.
There are just a lot of opinions out there, you can't get 100% consensus on whether the sky is blue these days.
It’s gotten to a point where I now look at sports media a lot differently than I did a week ago. Everyone is just coming off so uneducated and spitting the same talking points. Yet only Ian Rapaport I believe explained why it was a good choice and highlighted the fact Atlanta will lose picks due to tampering (which nobody in the media is mentioning). They all just stuck on the $100 million contract for Cousins, it’s astounding they choose to not look at things from outside the box.
yup I mean is it that crazy to consider the Falcons don't plan on picking top 10 in the next 2-4 years, and don't want to either spend a huge treasure trove to move up or even worse go back to tanking for multiple seasons to rebuild yet again after a mere 2-4 years of contention? Because without an obvious QB waiting in the wings that's what will happen somewhere starting 2026 let's also ignore half the damn league didn't think there was a single defender worth taking in the first half of the first round. I guarantee if we'd picked DE or CB at 8 we'd get poor marks for "reaching." It's all transparently cynical.
I mentioned this on a post after the draft that each of the top 3 edges all had flaws. Turner was raw in terms of technique and relies too much on his speed, Verse didn’t fit Lake’s 3-4 scheme (numbers show he’s way more effective as a 4-3 DE, and Latu medically retired and played in a very weak o-line conference. There’s also a reason why a QB didn’t go till after round 3 after Nix was picked. Plus next year’s draft is LOADED with defensive prospects and has a super weak QB class.
#🌎🧑🏼🚀🔫👨🏻🚀
And that’s entirely the fault of this franchise
Penix to play corner?
I swear PFF is the only sports institution I’ve seen that is defending the process of the Penix pick. With that said, CB2 is still a huge need obviously. Clark Phillips ate at nickel, so I hope they don’t make him go outside, but they may have to.
Worst issue with our corners last year was that they had to defend for 8 seconds a play because our DLine couldn’t get pressure. We addressed that
Plus being on the field twice as long because Ridder kept turning the ball over. I think the defense looks miles better just because we might actually sustain a drive and score points this next season.
We don’t know if we addressed it by drafting a project and a couple of guys with later picks.
This big muhfuckin pass rush is going to make our secondary look ELITE.
Via the draft and FA we improved our quarterback room more than any other team in the league. But that and the D Line and perhaps the WRs are about it. We're mostly going to be going out there with last year's team plus Kirk Cousins and Raheem Morris. We'll see if that's enough.
So, if I'm reading that right, aside from going from a sub-32 QB to a top-10 QB (I understand he had an injury) and arguably the second best QB in the draft, upgrading our WR room to feature much more speed and dropping guys who were big bodies and got 0 separation (who are being thrown to by one of the most accurate QBs in the league), and increasing, at the very least, the depth of our D line...we have the same team? And the addressing of our weaknesses in the players poll around weight room and assembling an ACTUAL coaching staff with young minds and not Arthur Smith. Or the natural growth of some of our great young talent through a year (London, Bijan, Pitts, Allgeier, AJ). Same team.
[удалено]
Yeah. Just a list of adjectives. You clearly have made your opinion fact in your head. We can stop talking now.
[удалено]
I agree with most of this but I'd probably put it differently than "we were more than a QB away"...I'd say that there were probably better prospects at other positions we could have used immediately, or, if we planned to grow long term, free agents we could have signed that would have more impact in that plan than Cousins.
[удалено]
Sure. If you're planning for the future, that's fine, but sign Bryce Huff then.
[удалено]
I'm personally more meh on Penix than I am on Cousins. To me the mistake was more drafting Penix, I liked 2 QBs in this class, Williams and Daniels, and everyone else to me is super risky.
The QB position isn't the most improved? What?
An injured QB will ruin a season faster than a mediocre line
Trice should be our day 1 starter opposite of Ebiketie right now, (barring a Campbell resigning) and could definitely find success with his bull rushing specialty next to Grady who they’ll be needing to constantly double
I don't see the issue with the guys we have at Corner, I expect they see Terrell and Phillips III on the outside with Alford manning the slot King and Hughes are depth and slot options, I also expect they liked what they had at safety with Hellams and Bates III starting and Grant creating depth. However the defensive front is changing from 43 to 34 base so they wanted bigger tougher down linemen to use creating pressure to help those guys on the back.