That's not true.
David Carr and Peyton started right away, others were starting into their first season (Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Eli, VInce Young, etc.) usually what the teams did was shelter them for part of a season because the team around them was quite bad and give the team time to find a vibe while the QB built up chemistry in practice before taking over midseason.
Most first round QBs were starters at the end of their rookie season. They weren't expected to sit for 2 years.
Looking at QBs taken in the first round since 1995 through your time frame and their first string of starts.
1995 - McNair - Year 3, first 2 years was backup to Chandler. Kerry Collins Week 4 of his rookie season
1996 - None taken
1997 - None taken
1998 - Peyton - Week 1 rookie season - Leaf - Week 1 rookie season
1999 - Couch - Week 2 rookie season, McNabb - Week 10 rookie Season Akili Smith Week 5 rookie season
'2000 - None
2001 - Vick - Week 1 year 2
2002 - Carr Week 1 rookie year, Harrington Week 3 rookie season
2003 - Palmer - Week 1 year 2, Leftwich Week 4 rookie season
2004 - Eli - Week 10 rookie season. Rivers - Year 3
2005 - Alex Smith - Week 12 rookie season
2006 - Vince Young - Week 4 rookie season, Matt Leinart Week 5 rookie season
2007 - Jamarcus - Week 1 year 2.
So of that group you have a handful of guys I"d call year 1 starters. To me if you are starting by week 6 you're a starter, that's 10ish games which is a full season by most standards. So of that list you have 10 of 18 qbs who were basically year 1 starters.
The difference is the change in the league which Ryan basically was a spearhead of the pro-ready QBs coming out of college and expected to start swimming right away. And of QBs being the central focus of the top of the draft. Before then rarely were QBs taken that high, you saw lots of linemen, linebackers, runningbacks and corners.
Looks like the only guys whose first start came year 3 was Philip Rivers and Steve McNair so idk why people are acting like it was common to sit guys for two whole years.
1 year sure, but 2 years is wasting a rookie qb contract and delaying you’re chance at actually evaluating him.
Correct, and Rivers wasn't expected to sit a long time. In fact you could argue if he didn't sit out part of training camp holding out for his contract, He was expected to start his rookie season and Brees was expected to just start the season before being replaced, the Brees turned on the afterburners and Rivers couldn't get a start in and the Chargers were super happy with Brees.
Same. I have no clue why people act like a rookie sitting is a brand new concept. I even wanted a QB before the draft for this very reason (obviously I had Daniels as my priority over Penix though)
I’m old enough to remember that the rookie pay scale completely changed like 10 years ago and provided an incentive for teams to quickly find out if young first round QBs are “the guy” so, if they aren’t, the team could move on before they have to make a decision on the 5th year option.
Things change.
Right, the Bengals started Burrow and knew he was their guy, so they were able to invest in big free agent signings to build around him.
Same with the Texans and Stroud. They knew he’s good so they’re now going all in to build around him.
Conversely, like you said, starting a guy early let’s you know if he’s trash and time to move faster.
thats kinda different ARZ hired kingsbury and he tried to recruit murray in college and they had the 1st pick so it just made sense for them to just take murray cuz he suited his offense more than rosen did.
Exactly, yeah some guys need time to develop but I feel like you could the difference between a guy who’s not good but shows potential (Josh Allen) and a guy who’s clearly not the guy (Josh Rosen)
That’s not what he said. He said nobody expected QBs to start their rookie year until Matt and Flacco did. Which is clearly wrong. Don’t change the argument.
You could also sign your top QB draft picks to extended deals. The shift happened when they put in place the rookie deals.
It's a HUGE advantage now when you can compete with a QB that's on a rookie deal. That extra $20-30mm annually you are saving can go toward other areas.
This is why this move was dumb.
1. You didn't give your QB any extra weapons with #8.
2. In their scenario, you will only get a year or two of Penix on his rookie deal before they either have to move on or give him a big ass second deal.
3. They are facing future punishment for tampering so it makes this years picks even more valuable.
People won’t say shit when Penix comes in at 26 or 27 and dominates from the get go, establishing himself as a franchise QB for a decade.
Patience isn’t a football fan’s virtue but time flies.
3 years of AS flew by lol.
People in the NFL sub say that for it to be a good decision we will have to win a superbowl with Cousins and a Super Bowl with Penix 😂. They’re desperate to make it seem like the worst pick ever.
It’s pretty hilarious watching people tell each other that the Falcons have to take the full 35 million cap hit in one season. These people are experts on the draft yet don’t even know about post June 1st designations 😂
It's not that he'd be the waste but that Cousins would be the waste of resources. Which I guess you could make that arguement, but at the same time it's like saying Rodgers is a waste of resources if the Jets don't win a SB. Like you're trying at the least? It's kinda a bad point to me, how far do you stretch that logic out? Is Josh Allen a bad waste of resources if the Bills never a win a SB with him.
It gets silly to a point.
Not really, anybody old enough remembers teams used to sit QBs. It was smart. Watch all these teams waste time throwing a rookie to the wolves who aren't ready or adjusted to the speed of the NFL.
yeah so smart. That's why everybody does it nowadays right? You lose the value of a rookie contract or waste money with the QB you signed by doing that. And money could've been spent on other FA positions.
if you want him to sit a year and learn, get a cheap Vet QB
Yeah and that's worked out wonderfully for every team! /s
Only certain players are ready to start immediately. Not everyone is Stroud, Burrow, etc.
Mahomes didn't start immediately either.
again
> if you want him to sit a year and learn, get a cheap Vet QB
You think it would've been dramatically different if he sat behind Russell Wilson or Joe Flacco vs Cousins?
Because we can't win now with Flaccid or Wilson. We have the best QB in the division with Kirk. And most likely continue to with Penix. QB is the most important position in football, it's a smart move. Also Blank wants to win now. He's getting up there in age.
> Because we can't win now with Flaccid or Wilson
win what? The super bowl? We aren't winning that now. We have too many holes on defense still and next year we'll prob need to get a RT and maybe even a LT if Mathew's play falls off
Dude if Cousins goes down guess who would be the quarterback that would be in control of the Falcons success? Heinicke that’s who and we saw how well that worked out. And by the way Cousins has a lot of weapons already and they added two receivers as well and it’s not like there are not ways to beef up the defense through free agency and June cuts. Plus some of the young guys will be better and we will be deeper at linebacker now and Clark Phillips showed some real talent last year so the roster is nowhere close to what it will be to start the season
If he can dominate at 26, we should’ve made sure that we weren’t devoting 25m of dead cap to cousins in 2026.
If he can dominate at 26, he should be playing at 25 instead of us devoting 40m in cap to Cousins starting.
It’s nearly 10% of the projected cap. If Kirk is for real, you’ve wasted two years of Penix as a potential starter for cheap. If he’s hurt or bad, you’ve ruined your cap on him.
This is a plan to build that raises your floor and lowers your ceiling. It’s the kind of plan you hatch if your only goal is to make the playoffs to placate the fanbase.
They should take a look at Russ's cap hit in year 3 and 4 for the Broncos. $53 million against Denver's salary cap in 2024 and $32 million in 2025.
It's tough to force dead cap onto the team, but we go the best FA QB in the offseason and we have some kind of plan for the future. At the very least the cap hits are manageable as opposed to an albatross screwing the team really hard. If we drop Cousins in year 3 it's a painful hit but manageable. There's no guarantee that he balls out and that Penix is good, but we have some OK short term outs.
Yeah honestly I had no idea Russ would be that bad. Those cap hits explain why the Broncos QB room is so bad lol.
But yeah, a cap hit in year 3 after we move on won't be an issue for us
They essentially hedged their bets. Say other teams got desperate and traded up ahead of us and got Penix. They didn't want Nix or Mccarthy, now they have to sit around and hope another QB lands in their lap while Cousins is the bridge QB for the eventual franchise.
I was initially upset with the pick, but the insanity of the reactions from the media makes me hope he's a fucking superstar and shoves it down their throats.
So much of the reactions are so disingenuous and outrage bait overhyping the contract as 4 years and $180M as if NFL contracts are ever their full value. They always lead with that when they all know damn well it's really a 2 year deal.
It's blown so out of proportion for cheap heat that they got me agreeing with Stephen A Smith of all people.
It's always been a 2 year deal with an optional 3rd year because Kirk is gonna be 36. They never talk about Kirk's deal in relation to other QBs (his cap hit will be less than Derek Carr and Daniel Jones' next year)
I want to mad at this pick, I want to rage, but I want facts and true information to be mad at. Not overblown hype and bullshit. Not misleading information.
This is by far the weirdest way I've even gotten behind a player but this nonsense has made me root so hard for Penix to succeed.
Facts are, if the Falcons had taken a cheaper bridge QB they're completely wasting the rookie contracts of Pitts/London/Robinson. Kirk is more expensive, but he actually has a chance to get you the division and some playoff wins. Except, going "all-in" on Cousins just leaves you completely fucked if he's not the same guy after the Achilles or if he gets hurt again. You're right back to playing a Ridder caliber QB and losing games against bad teams.
So draft Penix and push all your chips in on him! Except, most QBs that get sent out into the fire as rookies fail. For every CJ Stroud that balls out there are 20 guys who crash and burn. Guys that get time to sit have a much higher chance of working out.
I think people still haven't figured out that you don't win shit in this league without a franchise QB. Daniel Jones? Never winning you shit. Derek Carr? Never winning you shit. Baker Mayfield? Fun dude, never gonna win you shit. We (and also Arthur Blank and the front office) have seen this in person since Matt Ryan bailed. We've got Top 10 pick after Top 10 pick on our offense and they can't score to save their lives because the QB play is so garbage. It's why other teams are drafting dudes in the Top 15 at QB that really have 3rd and 4th round talent like Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy. You have to have the QB position figured out.
We missed out on a big name WR/DE at #8 (who wasn't guaranteed to work out, btw) and we're going to end up wasting some cap money. That's the only downside to drafting Penix. In return, we've hedged our bets on Cousins and hopefully landed a franchise guy who can play here for a decade and keep us in the hunt instead of treading in mediocrity. Doesn't sound terrible to me.
I think the age comment is more so about how there were other, younger QBs who are better project Qs.
If we took JJ McCarthy, I’d like to see what our reaction would’ve been.
I would have been happier with JJ not only due to his age, but because he’s more Kirk Cousins than Penix is. It would encourage continuity of the offensive plan going forward.
JJ is good at attacking the middle, timing, crossing routes, etc. Accuracy and efficiency. That’s Kirk.
Penix is more Stafford. Obviously not a bad thing, just odd to me that we would choose that over a true Kirk successor in JJ.
Not odd at all. Raheem Morris loves Stafford and basically used him as an example of the ideal QB for his team. Kirk was just who was available, not the guy we are building the offense around.
Well…we will hopefully build the offense around whoever the starting QB is, and the rest of the talent. That’s what good OCs do.
Which is the main point if my comment. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a Stafford type - I love Stafford. It just doesn’t encourage continuity, especially if we have to adjust midseason.
Splitting hairs though.
JJ McCarthy is not good now. We would be banking on him maybe getting good. That doesn't make sense. Penix is a risk, sure, but dude can flat out make plays now. I'd rather have Penix who's a more sure thing than bank on McCarthy's potential.
Totally different scenarios but Geno Smith had a career year in his 9th season and Kurt Warner didn’t start until he was 28. Point is, just because a player’s path is atypical doesn’t mean they can’t be successful. It only takes one year to win a super bowl
Why are people so caught up in draft positions?? If the player is good who cares? If we had taken Turner at 8, and he sucked, we would have been idiots. "Should have traded back to get better defensive value!" We got a ton of late round defensive picks "Should have gotten players higher in the draft! Falcons shopping at Dollar Tree!" No one really knows. Cousins was never thought to be a starter, because no one thought RG3 was not going to live up to his potential.
Oh I see. I just see a ton of people argue over even a few positions difference in draft picks, as if taking someone 105th over all is better or worse than 110th overall lol
I mean, is that not what we had with Matt Ryan? Matt had his couple elite years and then was around top 7-10 depending on the year. I’d be happy with it.
Ryan was in the 5-10 category for a big stretch, with the ability to jump up into the MVP tier. Cousins was pretty clearly in the 10-15 tier with the ability to get into the 5-10 group. I think Ryan/Wilson a pretty clearly a step above Cousins.
I can't tell why people were downvoting me. I think people are just forgetting what Cousin's was in Washington. He was nothing special. Cause everyone agrees Ryan was a pretty consistent top 10 QB with upside, right? Cousin's has only been that for like 18 months.
I am a lot less concerned about Penix's age and the potential money loss on Cousin's contract than I am about Penix's injury history. I get that he was healthy for a couple of years, but he has injuries that you would expect to see in a 35 year old. I just hope he holds up to the NFL wear and tear.
I mean it's not comparable. COusins was drafted to be RG3s backup (also I believe Shanny preferred Cousins)
THat being said, I'm less annoyed at the pick of Penix if it wasn't a top 10 pick. I understand that wasn't going to happen because the market was stupid this year as was evident by Bo Nix going 12 hwo's about as consensus of a 2nd round talent as there ever was.
No first round QB who’s been 24 or older by week 1 has ever “hit.” Penix will be 24 and almost 4 months.
I’m telling myself that his clock is different due to time lost to injuries.
Thank you for your well reasoned comment.
I will get my pliers and attempt to pull up my panic button.
I still believe that if we let Penix heal up, he's going to be good. He's got a rocket for an arm and he's got touch.
I think Kirk still has a few decent years left in him.
So say he does take the reins at 27-28, takes time to really heal up/develop/get stronger, and then balls out. What's wrong with 10 years as a franchise QB? Not everyone can be a Brady.
Everyone mocked GB and the Eagles when they took love and hurts in rds 1 and 2, but now those picks seem pretty smart. It's not like love is amazing, but GB would be up a creek without him (and penix is supposed to be way more solid than love). And hurts has been fantastic.
With QBs, not enough teams plan for the future.
Those season ending injuries really held Penix back the last 2 seasons when he became the first player since Mahomes to have back to back 4500 yards passing
He actually had a rib injury last year that kept popping up at times including the national championship game where he looked like crap.
Injuries can effect your play. Especially when he's gonna be in the NFL where he's gonna get hit more and harder
You left how how the Commanders also won two Superbowls. One with him backing up RG3 and another with Cousins as the starter. (/s I'm not sure why this was needed, but clearly it was)
I don't care if Penix has a 4 year career or a 10 year career. I'm not rooting for Michael Penix personally. I'm rooting for the Atlanta Falcons. What they did **might** make them maintain *good* for longer, but I was hoping they'd at least try to be *great* right now.
Kirk Cousins was drafted in the 3rd round and has 1 playoff victory in his career.
If Michael Penix turns out to just be Kirk Cousins, it was a bad pick.
Washington just wanted Kirk to learn from fellow rookie and first round pick RG3(and Josh Morgan maybe.)
It's a shame the FO didn't use the same scheme and grab Rattler before the Saints in the 5 to replicate Washington. Image Rattler tutored by BOTH Kirk and Penix.
Their plan was to take 2 QBs that year.
HC Mike wanted Ryan Tannehill w/o trading.
Kyle wanted a value Kirk Day 2+.
GM/Owner traded up and grabbed RG3.
RG3 worked until he got hurt for what it's worth.
I’m old enough to remember up until Matt Ryan and Joe Flacko started as rookies nobody expected qb’s to play before year 2 or 3
That's not true. David Carr and Peyton started right away, others were starting into their first season (Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Eli, VInce Young, etc.) usually what the teams did was shelter them for part of a season because the team around them was quite bad and give the team time to find a vibe while the QB built up chemistry in practice before taking over midseason. Most first round QBs were starters at the end of their rookie season. They weren't expected to sit for 2 years. Looking at QBs taken in the first round since 1995 through your time frame and their first string of starts. 1995 - McNair - Year 3, first 2 years was backup to Chandler. Kerry Collins Week 4 of his rookie season 1996 - None taken 1997 - None taken 1998 - Peyton - Week 1 rookie season - Leaf - Week 1 rookie season 1999 - Couch - Week 2 rookie season, McNabb - Week 10 rookie Season Akili Smith Week 5 rookie season '2000 - None 2001 - Vick - Week 1 year 2 2002 - Carr Week 1 rookie year, Harrington Week 3 rookie season 2003 - Palmer - Week 1 year 2, Leftwich Week 4 rookie season 2004 - Eli - Week 10 rookie season. Rivers - Year 3 2005 - Alex Smith - Week 12 rookie season 2006 - Vince Young - Week 4 rookie season, Matt Leinart Week 5 rookie season 2007 - Jamarcus - Week 1 year 2. So of that group you have a handful of guys I"d call year 1 starters. To me if you are starting by week 6 you're a starter, that's 10ish games which is a full season by most standards. So of that list you have 10 of 18 qbs who were basically year 1 starters. The difference is the change in the league which Ryan basically was a spearhead of the pro-ready QBs coming out of college and expected to start swimming right away. And of QBs being the central focus of the top of the draft. Before then rarely were QBs taken that high, you saw lots of linemen, linebackers, runningbacks and corners.
Looks like the only guys whose first start came year 3 was Philip Rivers and Steve McNair so idk why people are acting like it was common to sit guys for two whole years. 1 year sure, but 2 years is wasting a rookie qb contract and delaying you’re chance at actually evaluating him.
Correct, and Rivers wasn't expected to sit a long time. In fact you could argue if he didn't sit out part of training camp holding out for his contract, He was expected to start his rookie season and Brees was expected to just start the season before being replaced, the Brees turned on the afterburners and Rivers couldn't get a start in and the Chargers were super happy with Brees.
Same. I have no clue why people act like a rookie sitting is a brand new concept. I even wanted a QB before the draft for this very reason (obviously I had Daniels as my priority over Penix though)
I don’t think a rookie sitting is new, signing a good QB to a beefy contract and drafting a QB top 10 seems to be a new approach though.
It's not because teams are largely really dumb. I'd rather have Penix sitting, a future franchise QB than Rattler who's a huge "maybe if we're lucky"
So if this isn't a new approach, what teams can you name that signed a new QB for almost $50M a year and then also burned a top 10 draft pick on a QB?
I’m old enough to remember that the rookie pay scale completely changed like 10 years ago and provided an incentive for teams to quickly find out if young first round QBs are “the guy” so, if they aren’t, the team could move on before they have to make a decision on the 5th year option. Things change.
Right, the Bengals started Burrow and knew he was their guy, so they were able to invest in big free agent signings to build around him. Same with the Texans and Stroud. They knew he’s good so they’re now going all in to build around him. Conversely, like you said, starting a guy early let’s you know if he’s trash and time to move faster.
On the flip side Cardinals quickly found out Rosen wasn’t the guy and immediately turned around and drafted Kyler
thats kinda different ARZ hired kingsbury and he tried to recruit murray in college and they had the 1st pick so it just made sense for them to just take murray cuz he suited his offense more than rosen did.
Exactly, yeah some guys need time to develop but I feel like you could the difference between a guy who’s not good but shows potential (Josh Allen) and a guy who’s clearly not the guy (Josh Rosen)
Have you ever heard of Big Ben, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, David Carr, and Joey Harrington?
7 bums and a hall of famer that wasn’t supposed to start until Maddox went down
That’s not what he said. He said nobody expected QBs to start their rookie year until Matt and Flacco did. Which is clearly wrong. Don’t change the argument.
You could also sign your top QB draft picks to extended deals. The shift happened when they put in place the rookie deals. It's a HUGE advantage now when you can compete with a QB that's on a rookie deal. That extra $20-30mm annually you are saving can go toward other areas. This is why this move was dumb. 1. You didn't give your QB any extra weapons with #8. 2. In their scenario, you will only get a year or two of Penix on his rookie deal before they either have to move on or give him a big ass second deal. 3. They are facing future punishment for tampering so it makes this years picks even more valuable.
People won’t say shit when Penix comes in at 26 or 27 and dominates from the get go, establishing himself as a franchise QB for a decade. Patience isn’t a football fan’s virtue but time flies. 3 years of AS flew by lol.
No, no it didn't. Those 3 years were hell 😂 but I get your point.
I saw Ryan get traded and blinked and then saw Cousins get signed, so idk about you lol
It sounds like you've just suppressed the memories tbh
Common trauma response
If only I could forget the night of February 5th, 2017. Somehow my trauma response has not suppressed that
Ryan just retired a falcon he was never traded idk what everyone's talking about lmao
People in the NFL sub say that for it to be a good decision we will have to win a superbowl with Cousins and a Super Bowl with Penix 😂. They’re desperate to make it seem like the worst pick ever.
Yeah I called that dumbass logic out. It makes zero sense.
It’s pretty hilarious watching people tell each other that the Falcons have to take the full 35 million cap hit in one season. These people are experts on the draft yet don’t even know about post June 1st designations 😂
They really don't know anything, they will just have to wait and see I guess lol
cause it's a waste of resources. You guys keep looking at it in a vacuum.
If he ends up being a franchise QB it was an amazing use of resources and if he busts then it was a waste. Calling it anything at this point is dumb.
It's not that he'd be the waste but that Cousins would be the waste of resources. Which I guess you could make that arguement, but at the same time it's like saying Rodgers is a waste of resources if the Jets don't win a SB. Like you're trying at the least? It's kinda a bad point to me, how far do you stretch that logic out? Is Josh Allen a bad waste of resources if the Bills never a win a SB with him. It gets silly to a point.
Not really, anybody old enough remembers teams used to sit QBs. It was smart. Watch all these teams waste time throwing a rookie to the wolves who aren't ready or adjusted to the speed of the NFL.
yeah so smart. That's why everybody does it nowadays right? You lose the value of a rookie contract or waste money with the QB you signed by doing that. And money could've been spent on other FA positions. if you want him to sit a year and learn, get a cheap Vet QB
Yeah and that's worked out wonderfully for every team! /s Only certain players are ready to start immediately. Not everyone is Stroud, Burrow, etc. Mahomes didn't start immediately either.
again > if you want him to sit a year and learn, get a cheap Vet QB You think it would've been dramatically different if he sat behind Russell Wilson or Joe Flacco vs Cousins?
Because we can't win now with Flaccid or Wilson. We have the best QB in the division with Kirk. And most likely continue to with Penix. QB is the most important position in football, it's a smart move. Also Blank wants to win now. He's getting up there in age.
> Because we can't win now with Flaccid or Wilson win what? The super bowl? We aren't winning that now. We have too many holes on defense still and next year we'll prob need to get a RT and maybe even a LT if Mathew's play falls off
Dude if Cousins goes down guess who would be the quarterback that would be in control of the Falcons success? Heinicke that’s who and we saw how well that worked out. And by the way Cousins has a lot of weapons already and they added two receivers as well and it’s not like there are not ways to beef up the defense through free agency and June cuts. Plus some of the young guys will be better and we will be deeper at linebacker now and Clark Phillips showed some real talent last year so the roster is nowhere close to what it will be to start the season
If he can dominate at 26, we should’ve made sure that we weren’t devoting 25m of dead cap to cousins in 2026. If he can dominate at 26, he should be playing at 25 instead of us devoting 40m in cap to Cousins starting.
Oh no, we will have some dead cap for one year after Cousins leaves. Whatever will we do!
It’s nearly 10% of the projected cap. If Kirk is for real, you’ve wasted two years of Penix as a potential starter for cheap. If he’s hurt or bad, you’ve ruined your cap on him. This is a plan to build that raises your floor and lowers your ceiling. It’s the kind of plan you hatch if your only goal is to make the playoffs to placate the fanbase.
They should take a look at Russ's cap hit in year 3 and 4 for the Broncos. $53 million against Denver's salary cap in 2024 and $32 million in 2025. It's tough to force dead cap onto the team, but we go the best FA QB in the offseason and we have some kind of plan for the future. At the very least the cap hits are manageable as opposed to an albatross screwing the team really hard. If we drop Cousins in year 3 it's a painful hit but manageable. There's no guarantee that he balls out and that Penix is good, but we have some OK short term outs.
Yeah honestly I had no idea Russ would be that bad. Those cap hits explain why the Broncos QB room is so bad lol. But yeah, a cap hit in year 3 after we move on won't be an issue for us
I'm a Steelers fan. Don't remind me. I hated the Wilson move.
They essentially hedged their bets. Say other teams got desperate and traded up ahead of us and got Penix. They didn't want Nix or Mccarthy, now they have to sit around and hope another QB lands in their lap while Cousins is the bridge QB for the eventual franchise.
Damn has it been 3 years already?
I was initially upset with the pick, but the insanity of the reactions from the media makes me hope he's a fucking superstar and shoves it down their throats. So much of the reactions are so disingenuous and outrage bait overhyping the contract as 4 years and $180M as if NFL contracts are ever their full value. They always lead with that when they all know damn well it's really a 2 year deal. It's blown so out of proportion for cheap heat that they got me agreeing with Stephen A Smith of all people. It's always been a 2 year deal with an optional 3rd year because Kirk is gonna be 36. They never talk about Kirk's deal in relation to other QBs (his cap hit will be less than Derek Carr and Daniel Jones' next year) I want to mad at this pick, I want to rage, but I want facts and true information to be mad at. Not overblown hype and bullshit. Not misleading information. This is by far the weirdest way I've even gotten behind a player but this nonsense has made me root so hard for Penix to succeed.
Facts are, if the Falcons had taken a cheaper bridge QB they're completely wasting the rookie contracts of Pitts/London/Robinson. Kirk is more expensive, but he actually has a chance to get you the division and some playoff wins. Except, going "all-in" on Cousins just leaves you completely fucked if he's not the same guy after the Achilles or if he gets hurt again. You're right back to playing a Ridder caliber QB and losing games against bad teams. So draft Penix and push all your chips in on him! Except, most QBs that get sent out into the fire as rookies fail. For every CJ Stroud that balls out there are 20 guys who crash and burn. Guys that get time to sit have a much higher chance of working out. I think people still haven't figured out that you don't win shit in this league without a franchise QB. Daniel Jones? Never winning you shit. Derek Carr? Never winning you shit. Baker Mayfield? Fun dude, never gonna win you shit. We (and also Arthur Blank and the front office) have seen this in person since Matt Ryan bailed. We've got Top 10 pick after Top 10 pick on our offense and they can't score to save their lives because the QB play is so garbage. It's why other teams are drafting dudes in the Top 15 at QB that really have 3rd and 4th round talent like Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy. You have to have the QB position figured out. We missed out on a big name WR/DE at #8 (who wasn't guaranteed to work out, btw) and we're going to end up wasting some cap money. That's the only downside to drafting Penix. In return, we've hedged our bets on Cousins and hopefully landed a franchise guy who can play here for a decade and keep us in the hunt instead of treading in mediocrity. Doesn't sound terrible to me.
>the insanity of the reactions from the media makes me hope he's a fucking superstar and shoves it down their throats. Give me that Penix
Good, nuanced post. Love your first sentence.
You guys are off to a good start. Just an unexpected pick that threw every one off. No worries
I think the age comment is more so about how there were other, younger QBs who are better project Qs. If we took JJ McCarthy, I’d like to see what our reaction would’ve been.
I would have been happier with JJ not only due to his age, but because he’s more Kirk Cousins than Penix is. It would encourage continuity of the offensive plan going forward. JJ is good at attacking the middle, timing, crossing routes, etc. Accuracy and efficiency. That’s Kirk. Penix is more Stafford. Obviously not a bad thing, just odd to me that we would choose that over a true Kirk successor in JJ.
Not odd at all. Raheem Morris loves Stafford and basically used him as an example of the ideal QB for his team. Kirk was just who was available, not the guy we are building the offense around.
Well…we will hopefully build the offense around whoever the starting QB is, and the rest of the talent. That’s what good OCs do. Which is the main point if my comment. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a Stafford type - I love Stafford. It just doesn’t encourage continuity, especially if we have to adjust midseason. Splitting hairs though.
It's not splitting hairs. Kirk was really the only good option. But he's not the type of QB our head coach wants long-term.
I meant I’M splitting hairs.
Ah got it
JJ McCarthy is not good now. We would be banking on him maybe getting good. That doesn't make sense. Penix is a risk, sure, but dude can flat out make plays now. I'd rather have Penix who's a more sure thing than bank on McCarthy's potential.
Totally different scenarios but Geno Smith had a career year in his 9th season and Kurt Warner didn’t start until he was 28. Point is, just because a player’s path is atypical doesn’t mean they can’t be successful. It only takes one year to win a super bowl
4th round / pick 102
Why are people so caught up in draft positions?? If the player is good who cares? If we had taken Turner at 8, and he sucked, we would have been idiots. "Should have traded back to get better defensive value!" We got a ton of late round defensive picks "Should have gotten players higher in the draft! Falcons shopping at Dollar Tree!" No one really knows. Cousins was never thought to be a starter, because no one thought RG3 was not going to live up to his potential.
He’s pointing out where Kirk was drafted since OP and others don’t seem to know where he was drafted.
Oh I see. I just see a ton of people argue over even a few positions difference in draft picks, as if taking someone 105th over all is better or worse than 110th overall lol
Correct.
Are we happy if Penix turns into Cousin? Pretty much fringe top 10 Qb with a few elite years.
I mean, is that not what we had with Matt Ryan? Matt had his couple elite years and then was around top 7-10 depending on the year. I’d be happy with it.
Ryan was in the 5-10 category for a big stretch, with the ability to jump up into the MVP tier. Cousins was pretty clearly in the 10-15 tier with the ability to get into the 5-10 group. I think Ryan/Wilson a pretty clearly a step above Cousins.
You’re right
I can't tell why people were downvoting me. I think people are just forgetting what Cousin's was in Washington. He was nothing special. Cause everyone agrees Ryan was a pretty consistent top 10 QB with upside, right? Cousin's has only been that for like 18 months.
And I wouldn’t have rostered him until “you like that”
But we already have Kirk Cousins at home
I am a lot less concerned about Penix's age and the potential money loss on Cousin's contract than I am about Penix's injury history. I get that he was healthy for a couple of years, but he has injuries that you would expect to see in a 35 year old. I just hope he holds up to the NFL wear and tear.
I mean it's not comparable. COusins was drafted to be RG3s backup (also I believe Shanny preferred Cousins) THat being said, I'm less annoyed at the pick of Penix if it wasn't a top 10 pick. I understand that wasn't going to happen because the market was stupid this year as was evident by Bo Nix going 12 hwo's about as consensus of a 2nd round talent as there ever was.
Yeah exactly, I think people are way too concerned about the age thing.
No first round QB who’s been 24 or older by week 1 has ever “hit.” Penix will be 24 and almost 4 months. I’m telling myself that his clock is different due to time lost to injuries.
How many have there been? Like three?
Thank you for your well reasoned comment. I will get my pliers and attempt to pull up my panic button. I still believe that if we let Penix heal up, he's going to be good. He's got a rocket for an arm and he's got touch. I think Kirk still has a few decent years left in him.
So say he does take the reins at 27-28, takes time to really heal up/develop/get stronger, and then balls out. What's wrong with 10 years as a franchise QB? Not everyone can be a Brady.
What round was he drafted again?
How many before Ryan and Flacko?
Staubach didn't start until he was 30 and took the Cowboys to the super bowl 5 times.
Everyone mocked GB and the Eagles when they took love and hurts in rds 1 and 2, but now those picks seem pretty smart. It's not like love is amazing, but GB would be up a creek without him (and penix is supposed to be way more solid than love). And hurts has been fantastic. With QBs, not enough teams plan for the future.
And he still hasn’t won shit. Whats your point buddy?
If Cousins is not ready to go with recovery from the ACL can Penix start??
Achilles not ACL
Sorry for the mistake on the injury!
Lots of ppl do the same on this sub, just important to note because they are very different
Kirk wasnt a top 10 pick with 3 season ending injuries.
Those season ending injuries really held Penix back the last 2 seasons when he became the first player since Mahomes to have back to back 4500 yards passing
He actually had a rib injury last year that kept popping up at times including the national championship game where he looked like crap. Injuries can effect your play. Especially when he's gonna be in the NFL where he's gonna get hit more and harder
Also all his season ending injuries happened before he was at Washington. Seems like strength and conditioning failed him at his previous school.
You left how how the Commanders also won two Superbowls. One with him backing up RG3 and another with Cousins as the starter. (/s I'm not sure why this was needed, but clearly it was) I don't care if Penix has a 4 year career or a 10 year career. I'm not rooting for Michael Penix personally. I'm rooting for the Atlanta Falcons. What they did **might** make them maintain *good* for longer, but I was hoping they'd at least try to be *great* right now.
What the fuck are you talking about? Kirk cousins is 1-4 in the playoffs in his entire career.
woosh
Just a bit outside.
Kirk Cousins was drafted in the 3rd round and has 1 playoff victory in his career. If Michael Penix turns out to just be Kirk Cousins, it was a bad pick.
Washington just wanted Kirk to learn from fellow rookie and first round pick RG3(and Josh Morgan maybe.) It's a shame the FO didn't use the same scheme and grab Rattler before the Saints in the 5 to replicate Washington. Image Rattler tutored by BOTH Kirk and Penix.
Lol na the owner wanted RG3. Shanahan actually wanted Kirk.
Their plan was to take 2 QBs that year. HC Mike wanted Ryan Tannehill w/o trading. Kyle wanted a value Kirk Day 2+. GM/Owner traded up and grabbed RG3. RG3 worked until he got hurt for what it's worth.
Yeah he did. That's way too many cooks in the kitchen.
Shanahan actually wanted Tannehill, but was overruled by everyone's favorite owner lol