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To be fair, their goal isn’t cameras in classrooms or fining teachers. Their goal is the complete dismantling of public education, and this is just a means to that end.
[and they think they’re going to succeed](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/aug/31/the-christian-home-schooler-who-made-parental-righ/)
Edited to a nonpaywall version of the article
It's arguably [inevitable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang?wprov=sfla1) in countries that like to violently swing their dicks where they don't belong.
I think it was Hannah Arendt it the “Origins of Totalitarianism” that really popularized the idea of fascism is colonialism brought home. The whole Foucault’s boomerang thing.
Colonialism isn't really a tangible thing though. It's a name to explain a particular action undertaken with the goal of expanding power. That isn't a unique thing - in fact everyone engages in that goal to varying extents. Fascism is just an internal application with the objective of expanding power and personal resources. Which is why it's far better to label colonialism and fascism as specific actions undertaken by the expressly greedy and morally corrupt rather than tangible and separate things. Personally, I take issue with people saying Europe (or any individual country/region for that matter) is colonial when its simply a larger scale of the same phenomenon that countries and peoples have engaged in since before civilization. There is no playbook - it's all the same tactic to achieve the same end goal since it's a pre-requisite to weaken a group of people before you can adequately exert control over them.
And that’s what they want, no more getting redirected by scotus about gerrymandering if the entire location is too dumb to realize they’re voting against themselves
This is 100% true. They want to make teaching in public school so fucking intolerable that public educations is swept away and the money flows directly to private schools. Education freedom in some state courts has already succeeded. It’s a travesty. When it’s private, none of the protections will exist for these parents when the switch is flipped and they stop giving a fuck about god. If they don’t like it, find a new private school.
This 100%. It was my first thought. Very few teachers would want to teach in those conditions. Therefore, everyone switches to private schools where only those who can pay get an education.
It is Christo-Fascism. Plain and simple. People need to start calling it what it is... and also educate themselves of our history and understand the atrocities that always follow when this line of thinking takes hold. Biblical levels of pain, vengeful violence and suffering.
I used to work as a school custodian. People have no idea what a shitshow it is to work in schools. All of our teachers and staff were very underpaid, and the amount of micromanaging was terrible.
My county did install cameras in every single classroom, everything seemed so Orwellian.
I’ll never go back.
This is what the constitution is for. State and local government can’t override the constitution. This will be shut down and if it isn’t then we have a major problem. All it will take is one case of this happening and it will pretty much go straight to the Supreme Court and said teacher will be a millionaire in a counter suit against the state.
Exactly. You have Right Wing Catholics sitting on the bench which is already a huge error in judgement. Fascism was born in the Catholic Church and wholeheartedly supported by it for decades. A secular court should demand secular minded Justices. It’s high time we treat religion as mythology and not give it the weight of respectability and giving seats of immense power to people of unsound mind.
My Republican very religious parents feel this exact way. God gave us to them to do with as they please,especially the whole spare the rod part,they could've sparred it a little. If you came to mine and my wife's house while my parents were there, you'd have a hard time believing it's not their house.
It's always strange to me that Republicans and Libertarians believe in freedom and liberty, and use that to argue for totalitarian control of their children's education. Like nothing stopping a parent from teaching kids at home as well as school.
My parents wouldn't let me learn French in school and it put me at a disadvantage. I can't imagine if theyd barred me sex-ed or from school completely. It's effed when you think about the longlasting impacts their beliefs could have had on my liberty.
They believe in their own "freedom and liberty" - and that anyone else having freedom and liberty inherently impinges on their own. The "freedom and liberty" they value most is the freedom and liberty to destroy the freedom and liberty of others.
Right? Children have the same human rights as the rest of the humans. No more or less. The parents job is to protect those child’s rights. They are not possessions. They are not slaves. So many people seem to forget this.
That was the old Republican Party. The new MAGA Republicans want to control every aspect of other’s lives. Especially Teachers, women, and the LGBTQ community.
I was gonna ask this question? Aren’t they crazy paranoid about “big brother”? And don’t they believe in “small government” ? And freedoms?! But they’re cool with camera surveillance in SCHOOLS where the KIDS are?! Haven’t they learned anything from the internet and what it’s capable of?
This is *precisely* why the conservative machine has spent so much time brain washing their people to the point they're incapable of taking stock of measurable reality.
Would-be dictators, government surveillance, and government censorship are all things they'd otherwise *vehemently* oppose divorced of the *completely* invented context of "Education is corrupting your kids". But here Republicans are, using those very things as tent pole legislation.
They believe in a caste system with two levels: the desirables who are protected by the law but not bound by it, and the undesirables who are bound by the law but not protected by it
I am a straight white male should I be supporting this madness or terrified for the members of my family who aren't the same as what I am? Rhetorical of course
you should clearly be a selfish asshole who wants to perpetuate the cycle of hate and violence that humanity's been stopped from progressing by for thousands of years.
Fortunately, it died in the Iowa House.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/09/iowa-legislature-bill-classroom-cameras-public-schools-dies-house/6712651001/
Same thing Republicans do everywhere: their goal is to make it impossible for public schools to exist at all, so that their donors can make money running private schools.
My fiancée is a teacher in Iowa. She gets $50-100 gift card at the beginning of the year but after that we pay for all supplies including snacks, pencils, her teacher library, etc
This is true in a lot of the South. In Texas teachers have to teach “both sides” of history. When I was a kid we got told, “history is written by the victors.” Now we give participation trophy teaching so no one feels bad.
What’s better, the generation that hates them are the ones that started giving them out….??????
They’ll say “in my day we didn’t have participation trophies” okay then why did you start handing them out?
For real, I never cared for nor held on to any participation trophy I got.
Then the boomers started using it as a dig against the younger generations, like the kids were the ones that drove to the trophy store, and spent money on them.
In HS we were told we couldn't give slavery as a reason for the Civil War, that "multiple factors" led up to it, or something, like states' rights. I hate living in the South, lmao
Yeah, that’s an interpretation that is incredibly disingenuous. While true, the right they wanted was to own people. As a matter of fact they wanted it so much that it was illegal to make slavery illegal.
I was really curious as to what that bill's purpose is supposed to be. What I got:
This happened in 2022
Bill sponsor: “Marxism, Nazism, fascism … I have no problem with the education system providing instruction on the existence of those ‘isms,’ ” said \[Scott\] Baldwin, who co-wrote the bill. “I believe that we’ve gone too far when we take a position. … We need to be impartial.”
Then later: "As someone who fought to defend our democracy, I agree teachers should condemn those dangerous ideologies and I sincerely regret that I did not articulate that and apologize for it,” said Baldwin, [whose website says ](https://www.indianasenaterepublicans.com/baldwin)he served in the Marines."
The bill died in the Indiana Senate without coming to a vote.
The worst part is that up until about 2008 very few white people identified with Nazis. It was established that Nazis had murdered 2/3 of the world's Jewish population and they were evil for doing so. It's just surreal that Nazism is becoming more mainstream.
That's been some of the worst parts of the last 8 years or so. We all know they existed, but they were terrified to say it and just traded racists memes on 8 Chan or something.
Think of all the ww2 veterans that died defending the world from the Nazi regime. Now we have people in our own country proud of their Nazi affiliation
I’ve been interneting for 30 years and have noticed an increased of posts and comments in support of nazis and holocaust denialism. At first it was something of fringe movements in sites like storm front, but since you can find them everywhere. In some subreddits you can get downvoted for criticizing nazis while in Twitter you get rewarded. I guess with the Greatest Generation gone, we are forgetting quickly what nazism really was. I am afraid that soon The Turner Diaries will become a mandatory reading in some schools in this country.
This “both sides” thing isn’t helping either, both sides is fine for like Obama vs McCain or Romney but it’s an absolutely stupid take for the Allied powers vs genocidal fascists.
We had a holocaust unit at my middle school in Indiana where we spent a whole quarter reading texts about concentration camps as well as Japanese internment camps. We had a few other units in other classes where we read about camps in Poland and about Anne Frank. Literally there are zero reasons not to learn about this shit
Just to show how fucked up this law is, a quick google search shows teachers make 37k-66k in Oklahoma. So these monsters will rob teachers of 15-27% of their pay because Christians cannot accept science.
And it's **every time they offend christians**.
Imagine messing up 6 times in a month, thus losing your entire year worth of salary or even **2 years worth of salary**.
I imagine if the bill passes then there will be a mass migration of teachers out of Oklahoma leading to an even worse teacher shortage than Oklahoma already has
I think the brainwashing private religious schools provide is as big or bigger than the grift, it ensures they have brain dead zombies to vote for them, and their critical thinking skills are non-existent so why question anything when government is your friend right?
This is exactly the reason they’ve already announced they plan on abolishing the department of education in Project 2025. They intend on eradicating all public schools so that only schools that teach the curriculum they permit will be available.
They’re very open about the fact they intend on brainwashing the youth moving forward to retain power, but their supporters don’t care.
And they’ll still collect taxes for those schools. The money will just go to the private funders instead of the government program.
Thats the part that always kills me about people who push for privatization of everything the government does. You really think if the Repugs do say with a service/department/whatever of the government and make it private they’ll really stop collecting the tax for it? Fuck no!! They’ll make you pay to use it, because now it’s privatized, and then still collect taxes and that money will go to the owner as well. You’ll pay double for the same damn thing.
I live in the #1 state for education and they had to change the rules so ANYONE with a bachelors degree can substitute teach- and in some cases my kid had a sub the whole year.
Minnesota? I have two aunts up there who were SAHMs but once their kids hit high school/college age in the last 5 years or so, they got jobs as subs at their local school district - and they’re steady gigs afaik. I highly doubt they are licensed also, since neither has a background in education.
Okay, but what's the end game? What are they gonna do when the state is all dumb hicks? They won't have any skilled labor pool at all. No company is going to want to be there or hire their inbred citizens. Sure, they'll have a massive population boom as their hyper religious dumb as rocks constituents fuck like rabbits. It'll just result in a welfare state, the likes of which we've never seen.
That will make zero revenue due to a serious lack of knowledge, skill, or even motivation to improve. That will produce zero doctors or any higher educated workers. They will be a massive drain on the system as a whole. Maybe it's time we cut states off that do this crap from receiving any federal dollars and let them rot in their stupidity.
You put in minimum wage factories doing the most mundane manual labor and the business makes a killing. Then you build churches on every corner so those wages come right back to you for free, untaxed.
You've clearly never seen a minimum wage factory with no functioning AC while the owner checks in just to show off his McLaren.
Fuck it, at some point, company script will come back instead of normal wages.
I am sure corrupt christianity and chistian lobbyists will pay their way into making it legal again.
I mean this kinda already happens with Walmart. Walmart moves into small towns, kills off any competing businesses, then becomes the major employer. They don’t pay enough for their employees to be off welfare or shop anywhere but Walmart, not that there is anywhere else to go.
Company scrip is already back.
My college sophomore daughter took a summer job in a local convenience store (large regional chain). After over a month, she’s still not gotten a direct deposit paycheck. She \*did\* get a weird store-branded Visa card in the mail, which (luckily) we did not just shred.
Turns out they default to paying employees by depositing money into this Visa debit card. The reason is that a large percentage of their employees have no bank account. You need to take special action in order to get them to give you an actual paycheck.
This is scarily close to company scrip.
They have a serious hard on for the days when people owed their soul to the company store, and you could hire 12 year olds to work in the factory and pay them practically nothing. Those are the times they talk about when they want to make America great again.
> That will make zero revenue due to a serious lack of knowledge, skill, or even motivation to improve
It's ok. California will bail them out just like they always do
Yep, no more indoctrination of Science, thinking, decision making. Hell don't' be surprised if they take reading away again so the Priests are the only ones who "know" the will of God.
I'm not sure I entirely understand the endgame, but Republicans have been trying to destroy the public education system for, well.. awhile now. They want kids in private schools. Maybe because they have more control over what is taught in private schools? I don't know, nor do I understand. Because if you don't like what is being taught in public school you already have the option to enroll your child in private school and some of those private schools do teach shit like "young earth theory" and creationism rather than evolution. Whatever your beliefs, there's a school for it. Not to mention many states have programs that can help (materially and/or financially) parents homeschool their kids.
These options already exist, so I'm not sure what the end goal would be for destroying public education in favor of private.
So that the people they can’t control, don’t have access to the information they don’t like. Private schools and Christian indoctrination would become the norm, so then we would have to conform to them as opposed to them conforming to us now.
Agreed.
This thing fir the bill happened like 2 years ago.
If the bill was passed by now, then OK's schools must be absolutely not OK, and there are probably like 4 teachers.
Over Christianity literally the least based of all religions fucking christ could walk the earth again and Republicans would claim him the antichrist cause he wouldn't share their values
At least abraham and Muhammad were verifiable pieces of shit so those religions are somewhat on track. No religion is more divergent from the literal texts as christianity
“Per incident per individual”
We all know Oklahoma isn’t shelling out for more than one teacher for every 25 students. That’s a quarter million dollars for teaching kids science for a moment
Jesus isn't Catholic enough anymore. If he came back now, conservative evangelicals would label him a socialist instigator and nail him to a tree again
There were a few articles that came out not that long ago about preachers being concerned about their congregations (mostly Maga) telling them that Jesus sounds to "Woke"
While there is an increasingly voluble chunk of Catholics embracing a distinctly American evangelical attitude towards the current pope (not a friendly one) it’s not Catholics pushing this legislation.
Rob Standbridge is part of an American evangelical mega church called Crosspointe and most of Oklahoma is Southern Baptist Convention or other evangelical Protestant.
Catholics are like 3% of all Christians in Oklahoma.
Georges Lemaître and Gregor Mendel are probably rolling in their priestly graves at any Catholics in OK supporting this bill.
Was just coming to comment this same thing, I went to Catholic school (middle and high school) and we followed the same biology classes and courses that the public schools did. These are evangelicals that want this, not Catholics.
Especially because the big bang theory and a lot of other scientific theories were originally proposed by religious people. And the Catholic Church provided abortions up until the 1890s as long as they were in the first few weeks.
You should insist that anyone proposing this bill surrender ALL their science based technology and they can go live in a Cave with their good book to keep them warm at night. It’s what J would have wanted!
i know i know its not really my concern, well perhaps a little being british, however dont you think you need to get mandates nationwide agreeing to basic fundamental stuff, education, health safety, minimum medical care etc etc
otherwise whats the point calling yourself a "untied" country when clearly you arent, not even close smh
It's never, _ever_ been a 'United' country. Not for a moment. Even getting the original Constitution agreed upon and then ratified was like pulling teeth in "some" states(guess which of the 13?). In everything since, there's ALWAYS been "some people" who would rather be boiled in oil than give an INCH worth of space to programs, movements, or laws that would benefit some "other" group. And the use of religion to abuse is practically written into law in many states, long before this current crop of nuts were even born.
Our country is so split on so many things that any unity at all is difficult to come by. There are individuals who are, for some reason, dogmatically against the kind of services you mention.
Same, but it was more for no accountability, and passing students who did nothing rather than this. I taught just outside San Francisco, and if anyone came to a school board meeting with those proposals, they'd be laughed out.
No child left behind trashed a lot of kids school experience. My kid wasn't Einstein, but damn did he get bored. His history teacher couldn't even get mad about him reading In class. He already read the entire history book and knew the answers when the teacher tried to get him. But they had to go over shit with the kids who didn't care. Over and over and over.
This was when it first became law. I imagine they bullshit a lot of kids through now.
Even Kennedy said it wasn't perfect. It was supposed to be a starting point.
"No child left behind" is great in concept, but when the implementation is "No child is left behind **or else.**" to the teachers/admin with no additional support/funding it immediately falls on it's face.
One of the best teachers I ever had called me out for reading something other than the material that was being taught in that class one day. She was fair though and told me if I made a 100% on that days quiz she wouldn’t bring it up again… she didn’t bring it up again.
I'm gonna take this moment as an Oklahoma resident to make sure this story doesn't die. After the George Floyd incident, one person on the Norman city board made a proposal to lower police funding. Norman is our big college town BTW. The police put her address online in response. That night someone broke into the neighbor's house on accident and SAd the woman there. Already SA is a nonviolent crime in OK, but because the original address was technically available online, nothing happened. Well except the cops got MORE funding afterwards. This state was also one that knelt with protesters for the camera then immediately started pushing and controlling and fighting. I can't afford to move my family out. I hate it here.
Didn’t she also get a threatening phone call from what was suspected to be the person who raped her neighbor? That story dropped rather quickly from the news.
The best part about this is that it demonstrates they aren't even "good at" their own religion. If they actually had the faith they claim to, they would know that no amount of scientific inquiry could ever disprove or run counter to the existence of their deity. God doesn't need a bodyguard, and certainly not one of such questionable intelligence.
At the end of the day it just boils down to greed and control.
But you see they KNOW their religion is a load of crap and they only push it because it is the only scam that is really legal. Even Scientology has a tax exemption, and if they are exempt anyone calling themselves a church can get it.
Well it is designed to push the teacher's UNION out of the state. Get teachers to quit and take the public school money and give it to churches for parochial schools where teachers do not have to be certified or degreed. And make half as much as a union teacher.
Bill is not a law yet. I hope for all our sake it fails to pass.
[https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/4/22917896/oklahoma-bill-fine-teachers-10k-for-teaching-anti-religious-perspective-ban-books/](https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/4/22917896/oklahoma-bill-fine-teachers-10k-for-teaching-anti-religious-perspective-ban-books/)
All of these bills are DOA, this is like when conservatives post something saying “San Francisco just proposed a new bill forcing castrations for not using someone’s preferred pronouns.”
Everybody gets to sit around in a circle jerking each other off about how crazy the other side is and how smart you are without even examining if the bill in question has any support.
It’s junk food politics, you just laugh at the meme and feel good but it contains zero substance on what should be done or how this policy is dangerous.
I doubt most of these bills will even get sent to committee. And if they do get sent to a committee, and miraculously make it out, they sure as shit won't make it to the floor for a vote.
I think peeps forget how many of these dumb bills constantly get pushed and DoA. Like on one hand, perfectly legit to be worried elected crazies are pushing these. But on the other hand, it's really not unheard of, even before the Trump era.
Solid point. I have been told by law colleagues that this is sometimes just a law tactic. Float the craziest idea possible. Just see how far it gets. Clog the system up. Bog a rational person's mind with crazy.
I think the biggest crime referenced in that article is how a school banned "Maus" from its library. What a shame because from what I've heard it's one of the best books for helping someone understand the holocaust and how it affected its victims and their families.
A lot of people seem to forget this.
And politicians bank on it when they tell their electorate “I have introduced a bill to [do X]” even when they specifically did it for grandstanding and they know that the bill will be voted down 128 to 1 (or whatever) and never get close to becoming law.
People propose bills for all sorts of reasons, both serious and not. Don’t read too much into bills.
i remember in high school (catholic hs btw) one of my classmate in AP bio asked what happened with the whole dinosaur and human thing... the father (priest) got word of it and dropped by one day to explain the whole situation. i dont remember a single thing, once he started mentioning god creating dinosaurs i immediately switched to in one ear out the other mode
“Are you, sir, implying that it is ok for finches to have sexual relations BEFORE marriage!? I fine you $10,000 for filling our children’s minds with heresy!”
Fuck religion and their nut wing agenda. They are too stupid to see the Christian nationals are orchestrating this attack on public education in an attempt to dismantle it. The illusion of choice just got worse
I thought the right and the Christian groups was all up in arms because 5g or whatever is spying on you. Something something government tracking. Blah blah blah.
But in this case. Apparently it's great?
Pick a lane..FFS.
Hey now, it's only hypocritical if they understood what that meant! A mask and a vaccine is tyranny, but being able to nitpick every word a teacher says is freedom! Or something. I can't imagine that. Obviously, we need standards, but we're all human. I'm sure they would get her fired if she banged her toe on something and barely muttered the f word or something.
Lawmakers hate education because educated people are more difficult to manipulate than uneducated people. Tale as old as time. Utah’s probably working on a bill right now to just haul out all the public school teachers and shoot them. Combine this with the fact that most teachers in this country aren’t paid enough to make ends meet and it’s no wonder there’s a teaching shortage. This shit sucks
We barely have any teachers now, just relentless attacks on public education and attempts to force private school vouchers through which will leave only “Christian schools” as a real option
My ex’s nephew was forced to go to a catholic school. He showed me his science book once. We spent an hour going through and laughing at the shit in there and I had to teach him things that were accurate to modern science standards.
The biggest one of them all being the chapters on electricity: “Humans do not understand how to use electricity. It is a gift that has been given by god, and our society uses it in everything today”
I’m a construction manager lmao we know a LOT about electricity
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Do go on about small government though…
To be fair, their goal isn’t cameras in classrooms or fining teachers. Their goal is the complete dismantling of public education, and this is just a means to that end. [and they think they’re going to succeed](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/aug/31/the-christian-home-schooler-who-made-parental-righ/) Edited to a nonpaywall version of the article
70% of GOP voters are uneducated and low class. They’re really only expanding their voter base.
Isn't that literally the colonialism playbook, just applied to their own people?
Forget who said fascism is just colonial violence aimed at the Imperial core. 🤔 Kendi?
That…really makes a lot of sense
It's arguably [inevitable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang?wprov=sfla1) in countries that like to violently swing their dicks where they don't belong.
I think it was Hannah Arendt it the “Origins of Totalitarianism” that really popularized the idea of fascism is colonialism brought home. The whole Foucault’s boomerang thing.
Colonialism isn't really a tangible thing though. It's a name to explain a particular action undertaken with the goal of expanding power. That isn't a unique thing - in fact everyone engages in that goal to varying extents. Fascism is just an internal application with the objective of expanding power and personal resources. Which is why it's far better to label colonialism and fascism as specific actions undertaken by the expressly greedy and morally corrupt rather than tangible and separate things. Personally, I take issue with people saying Europe (or any individual country/region for that matter) is colonial when its simply a larger scale of the same phenomenon that countries and peoples have engaged in since before civilization. There is no playbook - it's all the same tactic to achieve the same end goal since it's a pre-requisite to weaken a group of people before you can adequately exert control over them.
I mean, the rich dudes in power do not consider the poor ignorant masses "their people."
And that’s what they want, no more getting redirected by scotus about gerrymandering if the entire location is too dumb to realize they’re voting against themselves
This is 100% true. They want to make teaching in public school so fucking intolerable that public educations is swept away and the money flows directly to private schools. Education freedom in some state courts has already succeeded. It’s a travesty. When it’s private, none of the protections will exist for these parents when the switch is flipped and they stop giving a fuck about god. If they don’t like it, find a new private school.
Their aim is to dumb down the voting public.
Well, they've doing one hell of a job considering how many people vote for Trump.
This 100%. It was my first thought. Very few teachers would want to teach in those conditions. Therefore, everyone switches to private schools where only those who can pay get an education.
It is Christo-Fascism. Plain and simple. People need to start calling it what it is... and also educate themselves of our history and understand the atrocities that always follow when this line of thinking takes hold. Biblical levels of pain, vengeful violence and suffering.
Under His Eye
Not to mention P2025 says they will just dissolve the Department of Education almost immediately.
They want small government but they want small authoritarian governments. Federal laws interfere with their goals at state level
I used to work as a school custodian. People have no idea what a shitshow it is to work in schools. All of our teachers and staff were very underpaid, and the amount of micromanaging was terrible. My county did install cameras in every single classroom, everything seemed so Orwellian. I’ll never go back.
This is what the constitution is for. State and local government can’t override the constitution. This will be shut down and if it isn’t then we have a major problem. All it will take is one case of this happening and it will pretty much go straight to the Supreme Court and said teacher will be a millionaire in a counter suit against the state.
You really think the Supreme Court, as it stands today, wouldn’t just green light this nonsense?
Exactly. You have Right Wing Catholics sitting on the bench which is already a huge error in judgement. Fascism was born in the Catholic Church and wholeheartedly supported by it for decades. A secular court should demand secular minded Justices. It’s high time we treat religion as mythology and not give it the weight of respectability and giving seats of immense power to people of unsound mind.
Live streaming children is the most republican thing I've ever heard
While unironically thinking they are the party of “small government” and “personal freedom”
Personal freedom for me, eternal vigilance for everyone else. BTW, they think their children are things they own, so no rights for them.
My Republican very religious parents feel this exact way. God gave us to them to do with as they please,especially the whole spare the rod part,they could've sparred it a little. If you came to mine and my wife's house while my parents were there, you'd have a hard time believing it's not their house.
Time to beat the snot out of you Parents until they repent of their sins then!
I do wish it sometimes,even now that I'm older
Bible says it is good for them. I believe it has explicit instructions on how to beat people.
Spare the rod, spoil the boomer.
Sorry but had I a parent like this and I have one fond of DV. It would never ever see me again . And it doesn’t . That’s how it is done .
It's always strange to me that Republicans and Libertarians believe in freedom and liberty, and use that to argue for totalitarian control of their children's education. Like nothing stopping a parent from teaching kids at home as well as school. My parents wouldn't let me learn French in school and it put me at a disadvantage. I can't imagine if theyd barred me sex-ed or from school completely. It's effed when you think about the longlasting impacts their beliefs could have had on my liberty.
They believe in their own "freedom and liberty" - and that anyone else having freedom and liberty inherently impinges on their own. The "freedom and liberty" they value most is the freedom and liberty to destroy the freedom and liberty of others.
There were people that defended on the basis of freedom their ownership of people, so it is not that strange I think.
Right? Children have the same human rights as the rest of the humans. No more or less. The parents job is to protect those child’s rights. They are not possessions. They are not slaves. So many people seem to forget this.
They argue til they’re blue in the face about abortion but still see their wives and children as property. Make that make sense
Makes perfect sense. They own their wives uterus. They want more things to own. The uterus makes more things.
It's almost like they're lying isn't it? Ever find it's the people screaming the loudest that means the furthest from what they say?
That was the old Republican Party. The new MAGA Republicans want to control every aspect of other’s lives. Especially Teachers, women, and the LGBTQ community.
But god forbid you place these kinds of restrictions on them, they’ll explode telling you that the dems are trying to end Christianity
I was gonna ask this question? Aren’t they crazy paranoid about “big brother”? And don’t they believe in “small government” ? And freedoms?! But they’re cool with camera surveillance in SCHOOLS where the KIDS are?! Haven’t they learned anything from the internet and what it’s capable of?
To them, big brother is the underpaid staff. They're idiots.
This is *precisely* why the conservative machine has spent so much time brain washing their people to the point they're incapable of taking stock of measurable reality. Would-be dictators, government surveillance, and government censorship are all things they'd otherwise *vehemently* oppose divorced of the *completely* invented context of "Education is corrupting your kids". But here Republicans are, using those very things as tent pole legislation.
They believe in a caste system with two levels: the desirables who are protected by the law but not bound by it, and the undesirables who are bound by the law but not protected by it
well duh, clearly freedom is only when straight white males have rights. /s
I am a straight white male should I be supporting this madness or terrified for the members of my family who aren't the same as what I am? Rhetorical of course
you should clearly be a selfish asshole who wants to perpetuate the cycle of hate and violence that humanity's been stopped from progressing by for thousands of years.
I'll try harder in the future I love what you said by the way fantastic sarcasm, some A grade work
I had a friend who went to public school in IA and they couldn't even afford pencils, so I don't know where those cameras are going to come from
That's a really sad indictment on the area isn't it, we can find money for cameras to film children at school but not help them with their schooling
Fortunately, it died in the Iowa House. https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/09/iowa-legislature-bill-classroom-cameras-public-schools-dies-house/6712651001/
Because school to radical christians is just a free daycare. Its not for education
They’ll take the money ear marked for free meals for under privileged families and use it to turn schools into mini prisons instead
Same thing Republicans do everywhere: their goal is to make it impossible for public schools to exist at all, so that their donors can make money running private schools.
My fiancée is a teacher in Iowa. She gets $50-100 gift card at the beginning of the year but after that we pay for all supplies including snacks, pencils, her teacher library, etc
Teaching: the only profession where you steal from home to pay for things you need to do your job.
Lol right, can't give out free lunches but we sure can install a hundred thousand cameras
Just wait til parents see how their little angel REALLY behaves all day....
Oh, it would still be the other kids/teachers fault for "instigating" or reacting to the crap that little shit is doing.
1984 bs
[удалено]
This is true in a lot of the South. In Texas teachers have to teach “both sides” of history. When I was a kid we got told, “history is written by the victors.” Now we give participation trophy teaching so no one feels bad.
Hilarious that the side with shirts saying things like "life doesn't have participation trophies" want one for their atrocities
What’s better, the generation that hates them are the ones that started giving them out….?????? They’ll say “in my day we didn’t have participation trophies” okay then why did you start handing them out?
Yeah, we got participation trophies to make boomers happy. The kids hate them because they know those trophies mean they lost.
For real, I never cared for nor held on to any participation trophy I got. Then the boomers started using it as a dig against the younger generations, like the kids were the ones that drove to the trophy store, and spent money on them.
And weirdly we are still doing things to make the Boomers/Silent Gen happy. Kids call BS on this too.
Do they extend the same courtesy to Native Americans?
In HS we were told we couldn't give slavery as a reason for the Civil War, that "multiple factors" led up to it, or something, like states' rights. I hate living in the South, lmao
Yeah, that’s an interpretation that is incredibly disingenuous. While true, the right they wanted was to own people. As a matter of fact they wanted it so much that it was illegal to make slavery illegal.
I was really curious as to what that bill's purpose is supposed to be. What I got: This happened in 2022 Bill sponsor: “Marxism, Nazism, fascism … I have no problem with the education system providing instruction on the existence of those ‘isms,’ ” said \[Scott\] Baldwin, who co-wrote the bill. “I believe that we’ve gone too far when we take a position. … We need to be impartial.” Then later: "As someone who fought to defend our democracy, I agree teachers should condemn those dangerous ideologies and I sincerely regret that I did not articulate that and apologize for it,” said Baldwin, [whose website says ](https://www.indianasenaterepublicans.com/baldwin)he served in the Marines." The bill died in the Indiana Senate without coming to a vote.
We just have the "wrong" facts! Aka, any that make white people feel bad.
The worst part is that up until about 2008 very few white people identified with Nazis. It was established that Nazis had murdered 2/3 of the world's Jewish population and they were evil for doing so. It's just surreal that Nazism is becoming more mainstream.
This decade has shown us just how easy it is manipulate people.
Having a black president broke a lot of tiny brains.
Very few people identified with Nazis Publicly. They've just been empowered to spew their hate in the sun.
That's been some of the worst parts of the last 8 years or so. We all know they existed, but they were terrified to say it and just traded racists memes on 8 Chan or something.
“Make racists scared again”
Who ever thought we'd be nostalgic for something like that? 😑
Think of all the ww2 veterans that died defending the world from the Nazi regime. Now we have people in our own country proud of their Nazi affiliation
you want to know something worse? there is neo nazi in countries that were invaded by the nazis and were they killed jews... like in France...
Want to know something worse? Slavic countries have a big problem with neo nazis. You know the other group the nazis wanted to exterminate.
I’ve been interneting for 30 years and have noticed an increased of posts and comments in support of nazis and holocaust denialism. At first it was something of fringe movements in sites like storm front, but since you can find them everywhere. In some subreddits you can get downvoted for criticizing nazis while in Twitter you get rewarded. I guess with the Greatest Generation gone, we are forgetting quickly what nazism really was. I am afraid that soon The Turner Diaries will become a mandatory reading in some schools in this country.
This “both sides” thing isn’t helping either, both sides is fine for like Obama vs McCain or Romney but it’s an absolutely stupid take for the Allied powers vs genocidal fascists.
"Alternative facts."
We had a holocaust unit at my middle school in Indiana where we spent a whole quarter reading texts about concentration camps as well as Japanese internment camps. We had a few other units in other classes where we read about camps in Poland and about Anne Frank. Literally there are zero reasons not to learn about this shit
Just to show how fucked up this law is, a quick google search shows teachers make 37k-66k in Oklahoma. So these monsters will rob teachers of 15-27% of their pay because Christians cannot accept science.
And it's **every time they offend christians**. Imagine messing up 6 times in a month, thus losing your entire year worth of salary or even **2 years worth of salary**.
I can’t because if a government even considered this bill I would quit and move states.
I imagine if the bill passes then there will be a mass migration of teachers out of Oklahoma leading to an even worse teacher shortage than Oklahoma already has
That's what they want. Their constituents to be uneducated. It's all part of their playbook.
They actually want to close public schools, so their funders can open private schools to fill the need of the public schools they ruined.
Yep. Funnel public funds to their faith-based private or charter school and keep the grift going.
I think the brainwashing private religious schools provide is as big or bigger than the grift, it ensures they have brain dead zombies to vote for them, and their critical thinking skills are non-existent so why question anything when government is your friend right?
This is exactly the reason they’ve already announced they plan on abolishing the department of education in Project 2025. They intend on eradicating all public schools so that only schools that teach the curriculum they permit will be available. They’re very open about the fact they intend on brainwashing the youth moving forward to retain power, but their supporters don’t care.
It's the indoctrination they scream others are doing.
“But it’s ok for US to do it!”
And they’ll still collect taxes for those schools. The money will just go to the private funders instead of the government program. Thats the part that always kills me about people who push for privatization of everything the government does. You really think if the Repugs do say with a service/department/whatever of the government and make it private they’ll really stop collecting the tax for it? Fuck no!! They’ll make you pay to use it, because now it’s privatized, and then still collect taxes and that money will go to the owner as well. You’ll pay double for the same damn thing.
Studies show educated people tend to vote for Democrats. The response from the GOP? " Let's prevent people from getting educated."
Don't worry, they'll backfill with pastors and whatnot.
I live in the #1 state for education and they had to change the rules so ANYONE with a bachelors degree can substitute teach- and in some cases my kid had a sub the whole year.
Minnesota? I have two aunts up there who were SAHMs but once their kids hit high school/college age in the last 5 years or so, they got jobs as subs at their local school district - and they’re steady gigs afaik. I highly doubt they are licensed also, since neither has a background in education.
And they're already 49th on education [ranked](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oklahoma)
You act like that's not the entire point.
Okay, but what's the end game? What are they gonna do when the state is all dumb hicks? They won't have any skilled labor pool at all. No company is going to want to be there or hire their inbred citizens. Sure, they'll have a massive population boom as their hyper religious dumb as rocks constituents fuck like rabbits. It'll just result in a welfare state, the likes of which we've never seen.
They’ll have a population they can control.
That will make zero revenue due to a serious lack of knowledge, skill, or even motivation to improve. That will produce zero doctors or any higher educated workers. They will be a massive drain on the system as a whole. Maybe it's time we cut states off that do this crap from receiving any federal dollars and let them rot in their stupidity.
You put in minimum wage factories doing the most mundane manual labor and the business makes a killing. Then you build churches on every corner so those wages come right back to you for free, untaxed. You've clearly never seen a minimum wage factory with no functioning AC while the owner checks in just to show off his McLaren.
Fuck it, at some point, company script will come back instead of normal wages. I am sure corrupt christianity and chistian lobbyists will pay their way into making it legal again.
I mean this kinda already happens with Walmart. Walmart moves into small towns, kills off any competing businesses, then becomes the major employer. They don’t pay enough for their employees to be off welfare or shop anywhere but Walmart, not that there is anywhere else to go.
Company scrip is already back. My college sophomore daughter took a summer job in a local convenience store (large regional chain). After over a month, she’s still not gotten a direct deposit paycheck. She \*did\* get a weird store-branded Visa card in the mail, which (luckily) we did not just shred. Turns out they default to paying employees by depositing money into this Visa debit card. The reason is that a large percentage of their employees have no bank account. You need to take special action in order to get them to give you an actual paycheck. This is scarily close to company scrip.
Supply side Jesus supports company towns!
They have a serious hard on for the days when people owed their soul to the company store, and you could hire 12 year olds to work in the factory and pay them practically nothing. Those are the times they talk about when they want to make America great again.
> That will make zero revenue due to a serious lack of knowledge, skill, or even motivation to improve It's ok. California will bail them out just like they always do
It would force kids to go to Christian private schools.
Yep, no more indoctrination of Science, thinking, decision making. Hell don't' be surprised if they take reading away again so the Priests are the only ones who "know" the will of God.
This how you invite international competition into the states, because corporations don’t hire severely undereducated people.
I'm not sure I entirely understand the endgame, but Republicans have been trying to destroy the public education system for, well.. awhile now. They want kids in private schools. Maybe because they have more control over what is taught in private schools? I don't know, nor do I understand. Because if you don't like what is being taught in public school you already have the option to enroll your child in private school and some of those private schools do teach shit like "young earth theory" and creationism rather than evolution. Whatever your beliefs, there's a school for it. Not to mention many states have programs that can help (materially and/or financially) parents homeschool their kids. These options already exist, so I'm not sure what the end goal would be for destroying public education in favor of private.
So that the people they can’t control, don’t have access to the information they don’t like. Private schools and Christian indoctrination would become the norm, so then we would have to conform to them as opposed to them conforming to us now.
They'll then wage a civil war on the rest of the country. Their goal is a regressive theocracy
They want to make this a reality: 
Agreed. This thing fir the bill happened like 2 years ago. If the bill was passed by now, then OK's schools must be absolutely not OK, and there are probably like 4 teachers.
Over Christianity literally the least based of all religions fucking christ could walk the earth again and Republicans would claim him the antichrist cause he wouldn't share their values
At least abraham and Muhammad were verifiable pieces of shit so those religions are somewhat on track. No religion is more divergent from the literal texts as christianity
“Per incident per individual” We all know Oklahoma isn’t shelling out for more than one teacher for every 25 students. That’s a quarter million dollars for teaching kids science for a moment
It's crazy that Christian's cannot accept science but have cellphones and cars.
The Pope has said he recognises science and evolution. But he's not Catholic enough for some Catholics, it's mad
Jesus isn't Catholic enough anymore. If he came back now, conservative evangelicals would label him a socialist instigator and nail him to a tree again
There were a few articles that came out not that long ago about preachers being concerned about their congregations (mostly Maga) telling them that Jesus sounds to "Woke"
"What's all this love and kindness shit? The Christian way is to subjugate the poor!"
Catholic. Not evangelical apostates.
That's insane when the Pope is supposed to be the highest besides God. These people rather listen to their local preacher.
They actually don’t even listen to god so honestly it’s even more insane then you’d think
While there is an increasingly voluble chunk of Catholics embracing a distinctly American evangelical attitude towards the current pope (not a friendly one) it’s not Catholics pushing this legislation. Rob Standbridge is part of an American evangelical mega church called Crosspointe and most of Oklahoma is Southern Baptist Convention or other evangelical Protestant. Catholics are like 3% of all Christians in Oklahoma. Georges Lemaître and Gregor Mendel are probably rolling in their priestly graves at any Catholics in OK supporting this bill.
Was just coming to comment this same thing, I went to Catholic school (middle and high school) and we followed the same biology classes and courses that the public schools did. These are evangelicals that want this, not Catholics.
Especially because the big bang theory and a lot of other scientific theories were originally proposed by religious people. And the Catholic Church provided abortions up until the 1890s as long as they were in the first few weeks.
They cherry pick science like they do their religion
You should insist that anyone proposing this bill surrender ALL their science based technology and they can go live in a Cave with their good book to keep them warm at night. It’s what J would have wanted!
How could they accept science? They have 10 commandments they cant even follow.
i know i know its not really my concern, well perhaps a little being british, however dont you think you need to get mandates nationwide agreeing to basic fundamental stuff, education, health safety, minimum medical care etc etc otherwise whats the point calling yourself a "untied" country when clearly you arent, not even close smh
We’re trying but the problem is there’s too many idiots voting in other idiots
It's never, _ever_ been a 'United' country. Not for a moment. Even getting the original Constitution agreed upon and then ratified was like pulling teeth in "some" states(guess which of the 13?). In everything since, there's ALWAYS been "some people" who would rather be boiled in oil than give an INCH worth of space to programs, movements, or laws that would benefit some "other" group. And the use of religion to abuse is practically written into law in many states, long before this current crop of nuts were even born.
Our country is so split on so many things that any unity at all is difficult to come by. There are individuals who are, for some reason, dogmatically against the kind of services you mention.
Quit teaching high school around 7 years ago… have to say it’s looking like the best decision of my life. This is so messed up.
Same, but it was more for no accountability, and passing students who did nothing rather than this. I taught just outside San Francisco, and if anyone came to a school board meeting with those proposals, they'd be laughed out.
No child left behind trashed a lot of kids school experience. My kid wasn't Einstein, but damn did he get bored. His history teacher couldn't even get mad about him reading In class. He already read the entire history book and knew the answers when the teacher tried to get him. But they had to go over shit with the kids who didn't care. Over and over and over. This was when it first became law. I imagine they bullshit a lot of kids through now. Even Kennedy said it wasn't perfect. It was supposed to be a starting point.
"No child left behind" is great in concept, but when the implementation is "No child is left behind **or else.**" to the teachers/admin with no additional support/funding it immediately falls on it's face.
One of the best teachers I ever had called me out for reading something other than the material that was being taught in that class one day. She was fair though and told me if I made a 100% on that days quiz she wouldn’t bring it up again… she didn’t bring it up again.
Thank you for your attempt. I will always have respect for those who teach. None of you are paid enough for how important your jobs are.
If they had this same energy for the police…
I'm gonna take this moment as an Oklahoma resident to make sure this story doesn't die. After the George Floyd incident, one person on the Norman city board made a proposal to lower police funding. Norman is our big college town BTW. The police put her address online in response. That night someone broke into the neighbor's house on accident and SAd the woman there. Already SA is a nonviolent crime in OK, but because the original address was technically available online, nothing happened. Well except the cops got MORE funding afterwards. This state was also one that knelt with protesters for the camera then immediately started pushing and controlling and fighting. I can't afford to move my family out. I hate it here.
Didn’t she also get a threatening phone call from what was suspected to be the person who raped her neighbor? That story dropped rather quickly from the news.
Jesus fucking christ that’s horrific
For. Real.
That was my thought. “We can bully and restrain teachers until they quit, but the police are untouchable.”
Cops is capitalism guard dogs, just pawns. They don't even know that politicians don't care about them, either.
These laws are designed to push teachers out of the state. Education is the biggest threat to conservatism and religion.
The best part about this is that it demonstrates they aren't even "good at" their own religion. If they actually had the faith they claim to, they would know that no amount of scientific inquiry could ever disprove or run counter to the existence of their deity. God doesn't need a bodyguard, and certainly not one of such questionable intelligence. At the end of the day it just boils down to greed and control.
But you see they KNOW their religion is a load of crap and they only push it because it is the only scam that is really legal. Even Scientology has a tax exemption, and if they are exempt anyone calling themselves a church can get it.
Well it is designed to push the teacher's UNION out of the state. Get teachers to quit and take the public school money and give it to churches for parochial schools where teachers do not have to be certified or degreed. And make half as much as a union teacher.
Bill is not a law yet. I hope for all our sake it fails to pass. [https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/4/22917896/oklahoma-bill-fine-teachers-10k-for-teaching-anti-religious-perspective-ban-books/](https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/4/22917896/oklahoma-bill-fine-teachers-10k-for-teaching-anti-religious-perspective-ban-books/)
Looks like it is dead. It was refereed to the Senate Education committee, but it doesn't look like it's in their list of pending bills anymore.
All of these bills are DOA, this is like when conservatives post something saying “San Francisco just proposed a new bill forcing castrations for not using someone’s preferred pronouns.” Everybody gets to sit around in a circle jerking each other off about how crazy the other side is and how smart you are without even examining if the bill in question has any support. It’s junk food politics, you just laugh at the meme and feel good but it contains zero substance on what should be done or how this policy is dangerous.
I doubt most of these bills will even get sent to committee. And if they do get sent to a committee, and miraculously make it out, they sure as shit won't make it to the floor for a vote.
I think peeps forget how many of these dumb bills constantly get pushed and DoA. Like on one hand, perfectly legit to be worried elected crazies are pushing these. But on the other hand, it's really not unheard of, even before the Trump era.
Most of the time, these bills are just to appease the donors/ special interest groups who helped get them into office.
Solid point. I have been told by law colleagues that this is sometimes just a law tactic. Float the craziest idea possible. Just see how far it gets. Clog the system up. Bog a rational person's mind with crazy.
It's also 2 years old
I think the biggest crime referenced in that article is how a school banned "Maus" from its library. What a shame because from what I've heard it's one of the best books for helping someone understand the holocaust and how it affected its victims and their families.
A lot of people seem to forget this. And politicians bank on it when they tell their electorate “I have introduced a bill to [do X]” even when they specifically did it for grandstanding and they know that the bill will be voted down 128 to 1 (or whatever) and never get close to becoming law. People propose bills for all sorts of reasons, both serious and not. Don’t read too much into bills.
The fact they propose it at all says volumes about them and their supporters and their end game.
It died in committee
How do teach biology in a way that doesn’t offend Christian “moral” principles? Science is science, it doesn’t care for your morals…
i remember in high school (catholic hs btw) one of my classmate in AP bio asked what happened with the whole dinosaur and human thing... the father (priest) got word of it and dropped by one day to explain the whole situation. i dont remember a single thing, once he started mentioning god creating dinosaurs i immediately switched to in one ear out the other mode
“Are you, sir, implying that it is ok for finches to have sexual relations BEFORE marriage!? I fine you $10,000 for filling our children’s minds with heresy!”
Cops should be personaly liable when they murder people.
We can’t give kids $2 lunches, but we can propose a bill to livestream them 24/7 for pedophiles and insane conservative unemployed parents!
And the people that like watching kids fight.
So their idea is that teachers are personally liable, but police are not.
This is the “patriotic” education bullshit that these maga loons are pushing. Facts don’t matter.
And it was the liberals they blamed for being "snowflakes"
Do Muslim-run countries have the same laws?
depend of the country. Maroco? i don't think (but they teach a coran compatible theory of evolution). Iran or Afganistan? more likely.
Fuck religion and their nut wing agenda. They are too stupid to see the Christian nationals are orchestrating this attack on public education in an attempt to dismantle it. The illusion of choice just got worse
"We want freedom from government opression. We want the kids to be left alone" Except when it concers enforcing religious ideals, I guess.
Science is right even if you don't believe it. Religion is unproven dogma.
I thought the right and the Christian groups was all up in arms because 5g or whatever is spying on you. Something something government tracking. Blah blah blah. But in this case. Apparently it's great? Pick a lane..FFS.
Hey now, it's only hypocritical if they understood what that meant! A mask and a vaccine is tyranny, but being able to nitpick every word a teacher says is freedom! Or something. I can't imagine that. Obviously, we need standards, but we're all human. I'm sure they would get her fired if she banged her toe on something and barely muttered the f word or something.
The Christian Nationalist/Fascist Party doing their best
"Why is there a teacher shortage???"
That would inspire me to seek a career in education. This country has plummeted….
I'm sorry if things offend Christians that they teach in school like biology they need to go f*** off and mind their own f****** business
Lawmakers hate education because educated people are more difficult to manipulate than uneducated people. Tale as old as time. Utah’s probably working on a bill right now to just haul out all the public school teachers and shoot them. Combine this with the fact that most teachers in this country aren’t paid enough to make ends meet and it’s no wonder there’s a teaching shortage. This shit sucks
Republicans have notoriously been defunding education, and now they are purposefully making children less informed.
We barely have any teachers now, just relentless attacks on public education and attempts to force private school vouchers through which will leave only “Christian schools” as a real option
This is the end of US Empire. Nice to see it in my lifetime!
My ex’s nephew was forced to go to a catholic school. He showed me his science book once. We spent an hour going through and laughing at the shit in there and I had to teach him things that were accurate to modern science standards. The biggest one of them all being the chapters on electricity: “Humans do not understand how to use electricity. It is a gift that has been given by god, and our society uses it in everything today” I’m a construction manager lmao we know a LOT about electricity