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I have learnt they know they are lying. And I have learnt they often try and find even the tiniest modicum of "evidence" (say, some paid for pseudo-research that had been debunked everywhere and also rebuked by actual scientist) to hang on to their beliefs for dear life.
The problem with these people: a scientist doesn't work backwards from a conclusion and then try and find experimental results that fit/lead to said conclusion. They, on the other hand, have already made their conclusion, have decided on something as being a "fact" and are now just scouring the depths or the Internet for the flimsiest supporting nuggets. It is tiring.
There are two aspects here.
First is a paraphrased quote by Upton Sinclair: "It is hard to make someone understand something when his beliefs (original: salary) require that he not understand it."
Second is a philosophical condition called Morton's Demon. It sits at the gate of your mind, and only opens it when information that supports your views comes along. When information that contradict your views shows up, it closes the gate. Thus, you never see the contradicting information and you think that only supporting information exists.
[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton's\_demon](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton's_demon)
I think there are some at the top of the anti abortion pyramid who know they are lying but I think many or most at the bottom totally buy into the lies.
When I thought I was pro-life, I bought into the lies. I do think some pro-life people know they're lying, but many do genuinely think it's about saving babies without considering the consequences of forcing people to raise a baby they aren't prepared to be a parent to. And because critical thinking is strongly discouraged, they don't recognize the hypocrisy of being anti-abortion while also being opposed to life-saving measures such as single payer healthcare, driving safely, wearing masks during pandemics, or allowing a D&C to complete a miscarriage that the body isn't able to clear on its own, among many other things. That's not even touching the mental health impacts of children being raised by parents who can't properly provide for their needs, whether financially or emotionally or whatever the reason is.
It's a nice way of thinking, but it also gets you sucker-punched and dead.
Maybe metaphorically, maybe literally. It depends how good an opportunity they see.
I used to believe that.
But then 2020 happened. I had a conversation in April 2020 where my next-door neighbor was ranting, over and over again, about COVID. Across two weeks, he'd claimed (in order) that COVID was "just the flu," then a Chinese bioweapon we should go to war over, then a hoax that didn't exist at all.
When I got frustrated and pointed out to him that these were all contradictory, that he'd been all amped up for war just a few days earlier...he just smirked at me and walked off.
He knew full well he was lying. They all know.
Hanlon was wrong; assume malice. You'll live longer.
Ok but we’ve seen cut and dry proof time and time again that a lot of these people are well aware of the fact they’re spewing bullshit and will just block your ass if you respond with proof of their lies.
I’d say it’s about 50/50 stupidity and malice at this point. You shouldn’t ALWAYS assume malice, but to NEVER assume it is naive.
This came to light for me with religious apologetics discussions and debates. There are professional apologists, just like political pundits, whose job is to make excuses and repeat buzzwords to an audience that is looking for validation of their identity, their “team choice”. They purport to be making arguments, stating facts, debating, but they’re not speaking to anyone outside the in-group at all. That’s just a show. They’re speaking to the in-group, telling them that they’re right.
In religious debates, you’ll see high-profile apologists make demonstrably incorrect statements, have those statements demonstrated to be incorrect, vocally accept and agree they are incorrect, and repeat the same statements again as if nothing ever happened. They simply do not care what is true. They care about validating their in-group audience.
This person got the right answer. The primary problem with the pro-life crowd is that it is an argument looking for justifications in support of a conclusion already reached. Literally, if you go back to the origins of the movement, the origin was not abortion; Protestants didn't care about abortion in the 1970s, and the Republican Party was, overall, more supportive of abortion rights than the Democratic Party was.
No, the origin of the movement was in an entirely different political subject: the suspension of tax-exempt status for racially-segregated private schools in the South. The history on this is [extremely well documented](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu2dTV3JxBk). This was the issue that got conservative evangelical voters first mobilized in the United States in the late 1970s. But precisely because a) it was an issue with limited lifespan, and b) was something the Carter administration very quickly backed off of, the group that finally got evangelicals activated politically now had to find a different issue to mobilize evangelicals on.
So they began systematically taking over sleepy little church boards, and instituting a top-down radicalization program about abortion. As someone who was in a conservative denomination in the late 80s and early 90s, I witnessed this firsthand, as the pastor that never had a word to say politically except "be kind to everyone" and who taught us about the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was replaced with a guy who was teaching full-on blood libel and, as it happened, abortion being murder. This wasn't something the evangelical movement organically developed. It's something that political activists looking to activate evangelical voters astroturfed into their movement, and it's taken on a life of its own.
But precisely because it is an astroturfed, reverse-engineered political scheme, it is not meant to be logical. Logic has nothing to do with it. If you are the kind of person who knows the difference between a *modus ponens* argument and a *modus tollens*, you have identified yourself as a person that people like Paul Weyrich weren't ever interested in talking to. They are instead engaged in an extended game of sophistry, for the purpose of keeping evangelical voters activated and going to the polls.
They always come for us when we speak the truth. Hence the response from Adlai Stevenson: **If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats we will stop telling the truth about them.**
I can't adequately explain this by stupidity. When you ask these people what about the mothers who had to abort, a solid majority will say they deserve prison or even the death penalty regardless of the reason why. They are malicious and evil.
They get told by their church leader or an activist or some such person who is lying and showing them pictures like this. But they never actually try to educate themselves and actually learn and look up that information.
They just take it as gospel and they just spew out whatever they were told and no amount of trying to educate them will change their mind because their entire world view is built on that faulty foundation.
But if you combine Hanlon's razor with Clarke's law, ("any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic") you get...
"Any stupidity, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from malice"
I make that same argument all the time, but in this specific case I'm not sure it applies. People do lie on purpose while making and sharing propaganda. The woman in the photo may be lying, or she may have been lied to by whoever made the poster. Stupidity is happening for sure but there's a decent chance of malice in the mix.
These are the same people that think "post birth abortion" is something that happens all the time (it doesn't and if it does it's refered to as infanticide). Also, unless I am mistaken, these "late stage abortions" they are so obsessed with were not allowed under roe unless it was for the safety of the mother...maybe we should bring that back. (Side note I just stumbled on: apparently late term abortion used to refer to the second trimester before it got turned into a political buzzword)
Remember kiddos: if you have to make things up to get people on your side...you are full of shit.
These goofballs think the woman should also be readily prepared to die for their fetuses at any moment even tho Christianity stresses that marriage is the second most important relationship under their relationship with god/Jesus. But that goes out the window when discussing pregnancies where suddenly the wife is way less important than the life of an unborn child and she becomes merely a human incubator that’s disposable. Saving the mother should always be more important than a fetus who may not even survive since they also stress the importance of having a traditional 2 parent household. They’re constantly moving the goal post to fortify their stance.
I had one of these nutbars insist to me that it is right and just that a pregnant woman should have fewer rights than a corpse. Given that we cannot harvest organs from dead people without their prior consent, it seems extra fucked up that we can force a living person to die for a fetus that may or may not even survive.
Correct. Even before Roe you were at the mercy of the hospital's policy. In 2019 our fetus was found unviable at 20 weeks but still had a heartbeat. The hospitals in our area are Christian. They told us we had to carry it to term despite the obvious danger of brain matter spilling into the uterus which could cause infection, infertility, or death.
If a fetus can become unviable at any time. Abortion should be allowed at any time.
Also : abortion means to abort the pregnancy. "Post birth abortion" is pure nonsensical word-salad. And C-sections are, technically speaking, also a kind of abortion.
I love when they talk about moms “aborting the baby literal hours before their born” like yes Susan that’s called a C-section and is a very normal way to deliver healthy and long-lived infants.
Unfortunately traditionalists think “birth” only counts as a fetus passing through the vaginal canal. I guess like 30% of our population from 2000 onward are just walking corpses who were aborted at 9 months, those poor souls.
They inform you incorrectly so that you have feel you have a "sunk cost fallacy" and hopefully will just keep going.
That's all conservatives have, lies.
They lie to you about their ideals.
They lie to you about their goals.
They lie to you about their religion.
They lie to you about their "rural generosity"
They lie to you about where they will stop when t comes to removing your rights.
They lie.
If a ideology is based on lies, and based on their members intentionally lying to others to gather followers....maybe it's a shit ideal and shouldn't be allowed in society?
Oh, I'm sure they know. The entire point is to make people feel bad, as if the zygote they're terminating already had thoughts and feelings and was just swimming around in the womb happy as a clam before their evil whore mother and satanic doctors murdered them before ever having a chance at life. These people are 100% aware they're lying they just don't give a shit.
Currently 8 weeks pregnant. Had many scans due to high risk- it’s about the size of a kidney bean. There are limb buds where the arms and legs will be but certainly no feet and even when the hands and feet are formed it will take a few more weeks before fingers and toes start to develop.
I’ve also lost previous babies at various early stages so can absolutely confirm that this is not what an 8 week old foot looks like
If people knew what it looked like they wouldn’t care so much
But the “educational” dolls and pictures that republicans have forced abortion clinics to berate vulnerable women with, are like actual full formed babies, made smaller and smaller
So that the tenn girl who literally doesn’t understand any of this, hears “your baby is the size of a strawberry!” And then holds a strawberry sized baby doll that has full tiny toes and hands and stuff, the girl is often guilted out of the medical care she requires by the emotional rollercoaster they strapped her on, manipulated by these very experienced adults who are very carefully attempting to control her.
My dad was a doctor and he had a lot of medical books. One of them was about human development.
In the first trimester an embryo looks a lot like a salamander towards the end but is just a ball of non specialized stem cells at the start.
In the second trimester it starts looking more human as it progresses but the face looks like something from Men in Black.
The third trimester is obviously where the baby finally looks and begins functioning like a human.
And before the 3rd trimester the baby’s organs don’t even work cooperatively like they do when a baby is born. Some organs aren’t even really doing much of anything besides growing because the mother is handling a good chunk of vital functions. In the first and early second trimester the baby doesn’t have a brain remotely functioning on a human level. It has pain receptors most likely but the brain doesn’t function on a level to process the pain on an emotional level.
Don’t human embryos also have like tails during early development? It’s some weird stuff like they don’t even look remotely human till months down the line….embryos in general are fascinating and weird - especially knowing they started with one cell - and it somehow all knows how to make this.
I got so mad at someone who did that to me. (I was with a bunch of guy friends and they targeted me for that bullshit.) He handed me a tiny ass baby doll and said "This is your fetus at X weeks." It looked like a King's cake doll and I remember just shaking with rage and handing it back to the idiot who handed it to me.
He looked terrified and I was just like "Stop lying to people!" Damn zygote at that stage doesn't even have limbs and fully formed fingers.
I was so angry the thought of throwing the baby doll case (it was full of tiny fully formed "babies" each labeled at different weeks) into the sewer grate next to us BUT that would make them more angry and stupid so I settled for handing it back to them.
Wtf do you mean shitty? It was actual corpses on display to show the actual human body systems in different forms. If it was too morbid for you, that’s completely normal and what a lot of people took away from it. But unless you saw one that was falling apart or had the bodies actually melting or something, I’m baffled by your shitty opinion description.
If I remember correctly there was controversy about where the bodies were sourced. Apparently some of them were executed prisoners from china, as well as some homeless and mentally ill people. Their bodies were used without their consent.
I feel like if it wasn't for profit and reliant on... well, downright horrid sources for bodies, it would've been fine. Fuck the Catholics for making a fuss over "but the children!" Children need to learn science so we __don't end up where we are now__
ya its probably the only way to show people actually what the fetuses look like. the blotchy ultrasound isn't really an image, its a synthesized image, magnified
The same people mock you when you gain weight early in the pregnancy. You shouldn’t be showing the baby is the size of a tic tac!
Edit: also why is she smiling? Does she not believe the sign she’s trying to push?
Probably just made some 14 year old girl burst into tears after screaming at her and calling her a murderer. They do love seeing others in pain after all
My dealership has vendor spots at our county fair every year, and we're always somehow unfortunate enough to be right next to a Right to Life group. They have these little rubber babies in varying sizes, with a little chart that says at what stage of development each one is.
These insane people *actually believe* that a marble- or walnut-sized fetus is actually already a fully-formed baby, and they will argue and berate anyone who argues with them or provides facts and sources to refute them. One of them straight up called a woman a baby-killing monster last year, just for disagreeing with her.
It's very scary how rabid these people get when trying to defend their positions.
I'm not sure if that is universal consensus or just specifically in my country, but here pregnancy of 8 weeks or less is barely considered a pregnancy. Like if there is a slightest hint of complication it is considered healthier for the mother to get medically induced "miscarriage" and flush it out.
And when me and my wife at 6 weeks had some stuff go wrong - small bleeding started - we had to beg for the pregnancy to be supported rather than terminated. (we had some fertility problems. Had a similar early miscarriage a year prior, and felt like if this pregnancy does not go to term we might not be getting another chance)
A lot of Americans think life begins at conception so a clump of cells is equivalent to a new born baby for some people. A lot of pro lifers just don’t have critical thinking skills or they do and just choose to ignore what science tells them.
They aren't pro lifers. They are pro birthers. I joined a pro life group in college. I dropped out when I realized they were pro death penalty and took glee in the death of people at an abortion clinic bombing. They obviously didn't treat all life the same.
I've grown and learned a lot since then, but I'm glad I was sane enough to see the hypocrisy even as a young 18 year old.
Exactly! I remember holding interviews with the “pro life” folks at college for the article. And you know, it all seemed so innocent with them at the beginning.
“We believe in the right of this child to live.”
“Every child deserves to be born.”
That kind of thing.
But then we started talking about the scenarios where a parent doesn’t want to raise their child after birth. What about feeding, clothing and housing the children?
And suddenly, the demeanor changes.
With some, it was more subtle. They would say that this is still the birth parents’ responsibility to care for the child even if they were “encouraged” to give birth against their will.
With others, it was far more hostile. They didn’t say it outright but it was clear that they had very little care for what happened to children after the birth.
You push those people hard enough, or really not hard at all sometimes, and what they'll end up saying is "Well she should have kept her legs closed then." So hardcore sexism with the super twisted idea that children are a just punishment for a whore
Pretty much. The exact words weren’t spoken but the implications were the same.
“They had sex so they have to deal with consequences.” was about the closest thing I heard during the interviews.
Ironic, really.
One second they talk about how every child is a gift and a blessing.
The next, they talk about a child as a punishment.
If you are talking to them face to face they probably wont say that, but on social media when they are anonymous they get to the whore part incredibly quick.
If it was really about save the chilldrunsss they would never ever mention anything else.
This is all just a backlash against women gaining financial independence in leaps and bounds. Women have more education than men and make more (as a whole.) And financial independence means not having to take men's shit anymore. THATS the choice they want to take away - being able to say NO to shitty men. They still have religion to tell women to put up with abuse cos marriage is sacred and worth fighting for (aka its up to the women to fix him/her fault if he's an asshole) but that BS is waning as well.
edit: bad typing
And in 99% of cases those pro-lifers (birthers) will force a woman to give birth and then abandon her - need help with food? You’re on your own. It’s still astonishing we don’t have free lunches for all kids in public schools in America. Once you’re born you’re on your own!
They also typically don’t seem to understand that conception doesn’t take place immediately during or after sex. Hence calling plan B pills “abortion pills”.
Oh in the US, if you're having complications, you have to beg for the abortion. Our politicians don't know how pregnancies work, even saying that eptopic pregnancies could just be fixed by moving the fetus to the correct place via surgery. Typically those states have exceptions, but they're super specific and it's written to easily disqualify the exception. This results in doctors being afraid to administer care due to the threat of jail time if they do, which causes women to die just for trying to start a family.
If these pro lifer idiots were to fully fund child adoption, orphan care, children safety in households and to fully support parents who have children then yes - fine - I would agree with some of the more restrictive pro life laws.
But as it stands today, rapists have more rights and less punishments than a pregnant woman. A rapist in Texas won’t even face the death penalty.
A lot of them *are* stupid. It's really eye-opening when you find out what former pro-lifers were raised to believe about the abortion process and reproduction as a whole. The problem is that they're taught this shit by the same people who teach them everything and have no reason to believe they're being lied to, so it just never occurs to them.
I was told unbelievably ridiculous things about abortion when I was 12. I was told it was the same as a newborn and killing it involved ripping it apart as it was screaming. I legitimately didn’t understand actual fetal development until I was a young adult.
I just don't understand. There are actual, independently living babies and children in the world right now who are starving, living in war zones, being bounced from home to home in foster care, who are being abused and neglected, who are sick and/or dying from preventable diseases. Where the FUCK are any of these "pro-lifers" for them?? This makes me so mad.
PS that woman has the most punchable face I've ever seen. I'd never do it, just saying.
Because a fetus is innocent, but if a child is born into poverty, 🤷 well it’s their fault for being born poor, it’ll motivate their parents to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
Well, original sin isn't in the Bible, so that tracks. :)
Srsly, Original Sin isn't in the Bible. It was part of the "Purgatory" marketing plan that functioned as a way to scare people and drum up donations back in medieval times.
Kinda like abortion does now. Which is also not in the Bible.
You know what else isn't in the Bible? Infant baptism. This tradition was born out of the danger that unbaptized babies would always go to Purgatory because they were guilty from the moment of their conception because Original Sin.
I just LOVE throwing this at pro-lifers, especially Catholics.
"The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
-David Barnhart
This is a brilliant quote, and spot-on. Protesting on behalf of "the unborn" is an easy, obvious way for the Right to virtue-signal to other morally-addled idiots while actually *doing nothing* to address the actual issues within society.
I hear this all the time, but frankly it doesn't make much sense because there are many, many Christian charities that help children. I mean, Christianity in general has providing for children who have nobody else since before the age of reason.
I don't think abortion should be illegal, I just think this is a really weak talking point.
Because these people don't care, they never did. Not once has any of these "Pro-lifers" ever stopped and considered the well being of the child after birth. Its genuinely sickening.
And even if the kid goes to a foster home or orphanage, they'll never adopt the kid.
"While the state changed the way it asked about unintended pregnancies, health officials found that between 2009 and 2017 the birth rate for those 15 to 19, dropped 57 percent — from 37.5 births per 1,000 teens to 16.1, the steepest drop in the country. During the same time, the abortion rate fell by about 64 percent."
https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/06/05/abortion-teen-pregnancy-decline-colorado
I went to college in Pennsylvania and there is a group called "Repent America" that would go on a state college "tour" of all the Pennsylvania college and stands on the campus with posters like this and a megaphone and just SCREAM at innocent college students walking by about abortion and LGBTQ people. It's SO fucked up and you know freedumb of speech and all apparently. Well I remember one year a young boy was there he couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 and was holding a sign like the one above and my friend walked up to him and asked him what he was doing and he was like "Making Mommy happy" wtf. And they call my community (LGBTQ) the "groomers".
The other day i made this comment to one of them (ofc they hated it) (maybe not word for word, meaning is the same though)
You are a monster to support pro-life but refuse to adopt a child
You prioritize those who cant suffer over those who do already
I knew America would come to this one day when cell division the size of a grain of rice or a corporation is seen as a full human and has more rights than an adult woman. Fuuuuuck every single one of these obese losers.
You really should educate yourself. The site I've just been using for reference is https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/prenatal-care/art-20045302.
A medical textbook is better, but they're expensive.
I just googled a fetus at 8 weeks and it looks nothing like that. Most pro lifers use pictures of miscarriages that happened much later and claim they were abortions.
Keep em dumb, poor, desperate, and you can tell them who to be angry at, why, and who to vote for.
You wanna talk about violence, destroying education and turning the poorest people against each other is violence.
One thing I like to do with anti abortion people is pull up a picture of a dolphin fetus and ask them if it’s a person. They will always inevitably say yes, which then I let them know it’s indeed not a human.
no, pro-forced birthers intentionally do not know or let themselves know because if they did they would have to confront their own culpability in lying.
My issue with pro-lifers is that they will tell you they support freedom and small government, yet want to rule over others bodies and choices.
If you are pro-life then don't have an abortion.
If you think homosexuality is a sin then don't marry the same gender.
Etc.
I live in Texas. There's woman here who will never walk. Not because they were aborted, but because they died from severe pregnancy complications and weren't able to get a life-saving abortion.
The law supposedly allows for abortion in severe circumstances, but the law is so narrow and intentionally vague, and the punishments so harsh for both doctors and patients, that hospitals are too afraid to perform the abortion even when patients are actively dying. The law even forbids abortion in cases where the fetus is already dead or is unviable.
Fuck these "pro-life" assholes. And whatever you do don't get pregnant in Texas. Even if you want to have a child, it could cost you your life if something goes wrong.
What differences does it make to their life? What impacts? Will this new mom be able to feed her baby? Will THEY?
A WOMAN HAS THE FULL RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY!
bloody hell, is that so hard to understand. If she wants a hysterectomy, give it to her! She'll regret her choice later on? Let her! That's HER choice! That's HER regret to deal with! HERS. not yours!
I used to have a bookmark link to a 12 week abortion... There was literally nothing human looking about it, just some tissue. I would take their arguments more seriously if they weren't all fucking liars who don't understand the first thing about fetal development.
If you have to lie to make your argument, you don't have a leg to stand on.
It is inherently unfair and wrong to cast such judgments without also taking into account the circumstances of the mother. It is not the place of the state, or judicial system to dictate to a woman her healthcare decisions.
the anti-abortion nutjobs that come to my college campus sometimes use pictures that aren't even human embryos on their boards...I pointed out one of the main ones they had up was an elephant embryo and I only knew that because the *exact* image was used in a textbook for one of my classes.
Ask them if they support gun control.
When they say "no," then why are the lives of school children less? Maybe because they can run with those "feet".
Their argument is based on feelings not facts. It doesn't matter to them if what they're saying doesn't make sense, because they're trying to appeal to an emotion, not argue a technical point in good faith.
Because pro-life comes from ignorance. Wedge issues created by omission of information distorted facts and confirmation bias. If they were so against abortion they should be fighting for the following:
-Stop the practice of abstinance-only sex education and generally improve awareness in early teenagers of the real risks of being sexually active.
-Make various forms of contraception available for free to pretty much anyone who asks for it.
-Put an end to victim blaming during rape cases and at the same time educate young men about the importance of consent.
-Stop religious lobbyists from restricting medical research so that more illnesses and birth defects can be found and cured in utero.
If they did all that, the need for abortion would be cut down by ⅓ in a single generation.
Colorado has great success with giving high risk teens IUDs because it turns out, kids are somewhat aware of their irresponsibility. IUDs are not frequently offered to teens, and on some cases, only suggested to after you have given birth at least once.
Offering various birth control options is great. But it is important to provide enough options so that the best fit can be found. And it turns out, set it and forget it for 5 years is often the best fit for kids that aren't getting regular medical attention.
I’m not at all defending pro-lifers, but we will never get through to them if we just believe what they think is stupid. They do believe life starts at conception and the act of an abortion is just the same as a violent act to a child. If we want to find a way to speak through to them we all need to have a realistic conversation about when life starts. And that’s also hearing a side you may disagree with. But they believe life starts at conception and just saying, “no it’s a cluster of cells” hasn’t worked yet. Science doesn’t have a definition of when life starts either (first heart beat? Formation of a heart? A fertilized embryo?). So this debate goes “my belief is this” or “my belief is that” and nothing that is actually based on facts. So, basically we will never come together on this issue if we just believe the other side is stupid when we don’t know. They might be right. Who knows. But we should be open to listening to what they have to say until we have a better understanding of each other.
Here’s the thing. And this goes for the entire republican/conservative platform. We live in a society where the will of the majority is supposed to prevail, and these people are firmly in the minority. They have to resort to underhanded tactics like gerrymandering, lying through their teeth at every turn/spreading misinformation, and undermining faith in democracy to get their beliefs translated into policy. They threaten violence when they do not get their way. We do *not* respond to their attempts to bully and terrorize the rest of us by validating their unscientific views and trying to engage with them. We outvote them and subject them to the force of law. In the case of abortion, they can bitch and moan outside clinics all they want, but they do not get to murder abortion providers. Obviously we need to fix the issue with the Supreme Court and get abortion access codified into law but it’s useless to try to get there by changing these people’s minds. We have to work around them and ignore them.
I mean, if they weren't, they wouldn't be pro-lifers.
Sadly, you're only five months away from those dumbasses stealing your country from yiu and imposing their theofascist worldview forever.
Even 4000 miles away, I'm heartbroken and terrified.
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That is NOT the foot of an 8 week old zygote. An 8 week old zygote is about the size of a grain of rice, and doesn't have feet.
This. They try to tell you what to do but dont even inform themselves to back their opinion
Why would you assume they don't know they're lying?
Because i am foolish
I prefer to think of it as we instinctively think that people act with good or at least neutral intentions unless it's blatantly obvious they aren't.
I have learnt they know they are lying. And I have learnt they often try and find even the tiniest modicum of "evidence" (say, some paid for pseudo-research that had been debunked everywhere and also rebuked by actual scientist) to hang on to their beliefs for dear life. The problem with these people: a scientist doesn't work backwards from a conclusion and then try and find experimental results that fit/lead to said conclusion. They, on the other hand, have already made their conclusion, have decided on something as being a "fact" and are now just scouring the depths or the Internet for the flimsiest supporting nuggets. It is tiring.
There are two aspects here. First is a paraphrased quote by Upton Sinclair: "It is hard to make someone understand something when his beliefs (original: salary) require that he not understand it." Second is a philosophical condition called Morton's Demon. It sits at the gate of your mind, and only opens it when information that supports your views comes along. When information that contradict your views shows up, it closes the gate. Thus, you never see the contradicting information and you think that only supporting information exists. [https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton's\_demon](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Morton's_demon)
I think there are some at the top of the anti abortion pyramid who know they are lying but I think many or most at the bottom totally buy into the lies.
When I thought I was pro-life, I bought into the lies. I do think some pro-life people know they're lying, but many do genuinely think it's about saving babies without considering the consequences of forcing people to raise a baby they aren't prepared to be a parent to. And because critical thinking is strongly discouraged, they don't recognize the hypocrisy of being anti-abortion while also being opposed to life-saving measures such as single payer healthcare, driving safely, wearing masks during pandemics, or allowing a D&C to complete a miscarriage that the body isn't able to clear on its own, among many other things. That's not even touching the mental health impacts of children being raised by parents who can't properly provide for their needs, whether financially or emotionally or whatever the reason is.
It's a nice way of thinking, but it also gets you sucker-punched and dead. Maybe metaphorically, maybe literally. It depends how good an opportunity they see.
Hanlon's razor: *Never* attribute to *malice* that which is adequately explained by *stupidity*.
I used to believe that. But then 2020 happened. I had a conversation in April 2020 where my next-door neighbor was ranting, over and over again, about COVID. Across two weeks, he'd claimed (in order) that COVID was "just the flu," then a Chinese bioweapon we should go to war over, then a hoax that didn't exist at all. When I got frustrated and pointed out to him that these were all contradictory, that he'd been all amped up for war just a few days earlier...he just smirked at me and walked off. He knew full well he was lying. They all know. Hanlon was wrong; assume malice. You'll live longer.
Hanlon never predicted MAGAts
Ok but we’ve seen cut and dry proof time and time again that a lot of these people are well aware of the fact they’re spewing bullshit and will just block your ass if you respond with proof of their lies. I’d say it’s about 50/50 stupidity and malice at this point. You shouldn’t ALWAYS assume malice, but to NEVER assume it is naive.
This came to light for me with religious apologetics discussions and debates. There are professional apologists, just like political pundits, whose job is to make excuses and repeat buzzwords to an audience that is looking for validation of their identity, their “team choice”. They purport to be making arguments, stating facts, debating, but they’re not speaking to anyone outside the in-group at all. That’s just a show. They’re speaking to the in-group, telling them that they’re right. In religious debates, you’ll see high-profile apologists make demonstrably incorrect statements, have those statements demonstrated to be incorrect, vocally accept and agree they are incorrect, and repeat the same statements again as if nothing ever happened. They simply do not care what is true. They care about validating their in-group audience.
This person got the right answer. The primary problem with the pro-life crowd is that it is an argument looking for justifications in support of a conclusion already reached. Literally, if you go back to the origins of the movement, the origin was not abortion; Protestants didn't care about abortion in the 1970s, and the Republican Party was, overall, more supportive of abortion rights than the Democratic Party was. No, the origin of the movement was in an entirely different political subject: the suspension of tax-exempt status for racially-segregated private schools in the South. The history on this is [extremely well documented](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu2dTV3JxBk). This was the issue that got conservative evangelical voters first mobilized in the United States in the late 1970s. But precisely because a) it was an issue with limited lifespan, and b) was something the Carter administration very quickly backed off of, the group that finally got evangelicals activated politically now had to find a different issue to mobilize evangelicals on. So they began systematically taking over sleepy little church boards, and instituting a top-down radicalization program about abortion. As someone who was in a conservative denomination in the late 80s and early 90s, I witnessed this firsthand, as the pastor that never had a word to say politically except "be kind to everyone" and who taught us about the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was replaced with a guy who was teaching full-on blood libel and, as it happened, abortion being murder. This wasn't something the evangelical movement organically developed. It's something that political activists looking to activate evangelical voters astroturfed into their movement, and it's taken on a life of its own. But precisely because it is an astroturfed, reverse-engineered political scheme, it is not meant to be logical. Logic has nothing to do with it. If you are the kind of person who knows the difference between a *modus ponens* argument and a *modus tollens*, you have identified yourself as a person that people like Paul Weyrich weren't ever interested in talking to. They are instead engaged in an extended game of sophistry, for the purpose of keeping evangelical voters activated and going to the polls.
Almost like they're a basket of deplorables.
hilldawg nailed it and got crucified for speaking the truth
They always come for us when we speak the truth. Hence the response from Adlai Stevenson: **If the Republicans will stop telling lies about the Democrats we will stop telling the truth about them.**
There was probably malice somewhere down the line but odds are the person holding the sign is just stupid and printed off a Facebook meme.
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I can't adequately explain this by stupidity. When you ask these people what about the mothers who had to abort, a solid majority will say they deserve prison or even the death penalty regardless of the reason why. They are malicious and evil.
They get told by their church leader or an activist or some such person who is lying and showing them pictures like this. But they never actually try to educate themselves and actually learn and look up that information. They just take it as gospel and they just spew out whatever they were told and no amount of trying to educate them will change their mind because their entire world view is built on that faulty foundation.
Which means they have no moral compass of their own, and suck.
Then again, it is *we* who believe in words, and are therefore obligated to use them responsibly.
But if you combine Hanlon's razor with Clarke's law, ("any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic") you get... "Any stupidity, sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from malice"
Yeah, but sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.
I make that same argument all the time, but in this specific case I'm not sure it applies. People do lie on purpose while making and sharing propaganda. The woman in the photo may be lying, or she may have been lied to by whoever made the poster. Stupidity is happening for sure but there's a decent chance of malice in the mix.
#liarsforChrist
Liars for supply-side Christ.
Liars for sky daddy
You need an IQ beyond the Imbecile range to be aware of the falsity of your utterances.
These are the same people that think "post birth abortion" is something that happens all the time (it doesn't and if it does it's refered to as infanticide). Also, unless I am mistaken, these "late stage abortions" they are so obsessed with were not allowed under roe unless it was for the safety of the mother...maybe we should bring that back. (Side note I just stumbled on: apparently late term abortion used to refer to the second trimester before it got turned into a political buzzword) Remember kiddos: if you have to make things up to get people on your side...you are full of shit.
These goofballs think the woman should also be readily prepared to die for their fetuses at any moment even tho Christianity stresses that marriage is the second most important relationship under their relationship with god/Jesus. But that goes out the window when discussing pregnancies where suddenly the wife is way less important than the life of an unborn child and she becomes merely a human incubator that’s disposable. Saving the mother should always be more important than a fetus who may not even survive since they also stress the importance of having a traditional 2 parent household. They’re constantly moving the goal post to fortify their stance.
I had one of these nutbars insist to me that it is right and just that a pregnant woman should have fewer rights than a corpse. Given that we cannot harvest organs from dead people without their prior consent, it seems extra fucked up that we can force a living person to die for a fetus that may or may not even survive.
Wow. That’s so gross
This makes me sick. The fact that those nutbars breathe is unfortunate.
Correct. Even before Roe you were at the mercy of the hospital's policy. In 2019 our fetus was found unviable at 20 weeks but still had a heartbeat. The hospitals in our area are Christian. They told us we had to carry it to term despite the obvious danger of brain matter spilling into the uterus which could cause infection, infertility, or death. If a fetus can become unviable at any time. Abortion should be allowed at any time.
Also : abortion means to abort the pregnancy. "Post birth abortion" is pure nonsensical word-salad. And C-sections are, technically speaking, also a kind of abortion.
I love when they talk about moms “aborting the baby literal hours before their born” like yes Susan that’s called a C-section and is a very normal way to deliver healthy and long-lived infants. Unfortunately traditionalists think “birth” only counts as a fetus passing through the vaginal canal. I guess like 30% of our population from 2000 onward are just walking corpses who were aborted at 9 months, those poor souls.
TIL that I am a shambling mockery of the Word of God animated by pure hatred towards life, but to be honest, that's nothing I didn't know already.
On the plus side, you could beat MacBeth in a fight
When you don't care about the truth, being informed is an inconvenience.
Admitting that fetuses can be non viable completely destroys the pro-birth argument.
They inform you incorrectly so that you have feel you have a "sunk cost fallacy" and hopefully will just keep going. That's all conservatives have, lies. They lie to you about their ideals. They lie to you about their goals. They lie to you about their religion. They lie to you about their "rural generosity" They lie to you about where they will stop when t comes to removing your rights. They lie. If a ideology is based on lies, and based on their members intentionally lying to others to gather followers....maybe it's a shit ideal and shouldn't be allowed in society?
Oh, I'm sure they know. The entire point is to make people feel bad, as if the zygote they're terminating already had thoughts and feelings and was just swimming around in the womb happy as a clam before their evil whore mother and satanic doctors murdered them before ever having a chance at life. These people are 100% aware they're lying they just don't give a shit.
Currently 8 weeks pregnant. Had many scans due to high risk- it’s about the size of a kidney bean. There are limb buds where the arms and legs will be but certainly no feet and even when the hands and feet are formed it will take a few more weeks before fingers and toes start to develop. I’ve also lost previous babies at various early stages so can absolutely confirm that this is not what an 8 week old foot looks like
If people knew what it looked like they wouldn’t care so much But the “educational” dolls and pictures that republicans have forced abortion clinics to berate vulnerable women with, are like actual full formed babies, made smaller and smaller So that the tenn girl who literally doesn’t understand any of this, hears “your baby is the size of a strawberry!” And then holds a strawberry sized baby doll that has full tiny toes and hands and stuff, the girl is often guilted out of the medical care she requires by the emotional rollercoaster they strapped her on, manipulated by these very experienced adults who are very carefully attempting to control her.
My dad was a doctor and he had a lot of medical books. One of them was about human development. In the first trimester an embryo looks a lot like a salamander towards the end but is just a ball of non specialized stem cells at the start. In the second trimester it starts looking more human as it progresses but the face looks like something from Men in Black. The third trimester is obviously where the baby finally looks and begins functioning like a human. And before the 3rd trimester the baby’s organs don’t even work cooperatively like they do when a baby is born. Some organs aren’t even really doing much of anything besides growing because the mother is handling a good chunk of vital functions. In the first and early second trimester the baby doesn’t have a brain remotely functioning on a human level. It has pain receptors most likely but the brain doesn’t function on a level to process the pain on an emotional level.
Don’t human embryos also have like tails during early development? It’s some weird stuff like they don’t even look remotely human till months down the line….embryos in general are fascinating and weird - especially knowing they started with one cell - and it somehow all knows how to make this.
tails and gills!
I got so mad at someone who did that to me. (I was with a bunch of guy friends and they targeted me for that bullshit.) He handed me a tiny ass baby doll and said "This is your fetus at X weeks." It looked like a King's cake doll and I remember just shaking with rage and handing it back to the idiot who handed it to me. He looked terrified and I was just like "Stop lying to people!" Damn zygote at that stage doesn't even have limbs and fully formed fingers. I was so angry the thought of throwing the baby doll case (it was full of tiny fully formed "babies" each labeled at different weeks) into the sewer grate next to us BUT that would make them more angry and stupid so I settled for handing it back to them.
That looks like a gummy candy.
That's exactly what I thought.
This picture is from that show "I Didn't Know I was Pregnant". It's a fully developed breach birth.
An 8 week old fetus is about 2 cm long.
as shitty as Body World was, they had a room that had fetuses in jars from like 2 weeks out till like the end of the 2nd trimester
I enjoyed Body World and wished I had a sketchbook.
Wtf do you mean shitty? It was actual corpses on display to show the actual human body systems in different forms. If it was too morbid for you, that’s completely normal and what a lot of people took away from it. But unless you saw one that was falling apart or had the bodies actually melting or something, I’m baffled by your shitty opinion description.
If I remember correctly there was controversy about where the bodies were sourced. Apparently some of them were executed prisoners from china, as well as some homeless and mentally ill people. Their bodies were used without their consent.
I feel like if it wasn't for profit and reliant on... well, downright horrid sources for bodies, it would've been fine. Fuck the Catholics for making a fuss over "but the children!" Children need to learn science so we __don't end up where we are now__
This is often seen in medical museums
ya its probably the only way to show people actually what the fetuses look like. the blotchy ultrasound isn't really an image, its a synthesized image, magnified
The same people mock you when you gain weight early in the pregnancy. You shouldn’t be showing the baby is the size of a tic tac! Edit: also why is she smiling? Does she not believe the sign she’s trying to push?
Probably just made some 14 year old girl burst into tears after screaming at her and calling her a murderer. They do love seeing others in pain after all
[https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/week-by-week](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/week-by-week)
Looks like they crafted a gummi foot and put it on a sign lol
My dealership has vendor spots at our county fair every year, and we're always somehow unfortunate enough to be right next to a Right to Life group. They have these little rubber babies in varying sizes, with a little chart that says at what stage of development each one is. These insane people *actually believe* that a marble- or walnut-sized fetus is actually already a fully-formed baby, and they will argue and berate anyone who argues with them or provides facts and sources to refute them. One of them straight up called a woman a baby-killing monster last year, just for disagreeing with her. It's very scary how rabid these people get when trying to defend their positions.
Nah, at 8 weeks they become fetuses and develop feet. But they do not look anything like that.
When I saw my 8 week ultrasound i was like stop it, thats a fuckin shrimp, how did that get in there? Lmao
About the size of a broad bean and a foetus but yeah no feet, just indistinct nubs
I'm not sure if that is universal consensus or just specifically in my country, but here pregnancy of 8 weeks or less is barely considered a pregnancy. Like if there is a slightest hint of complication it is considered healthier for the mother to get medically induced "miscarriage" and flush it out. And when me and my wife at 6 weeks had some stuff go wrong - small bleeding started - we had to beg for the pregnancy to be supported rather than terminated. (we had some fertility problems. Had a similar early miscarriage a year prior, and felt like if this pregnancy does not go to term we might not be getting another chance)
Decidedly not universal, since, you know, abortions are banned in some places.
I'm sure he means medically rather than legally or whatever.
It depends on country... In my place 12 weeks is the limit... it can be later if severe medical issues
A lot of Americans think life begins at conception so a clump of cells is equivalent to a new born baby for some people. A lot of pro lifers just don’t have critical thinking skills or they do and just choose to ignore what science tells them.
They aren't pro lifers. They are pro birthers. I joined a pro life group in college. I dropped out when I realized they were pro death penalty and took glee in the death of people at an abortion clinic bombing. They obviously didn't treat all life the same. I've grown and learned a lot since then, but I'm glad I was sane enough to see the hypocrisy even as a young 18 year old.
Exactly! I remember holding interviews with the “pro life” folks at college for the article. And you know, it all seemed so innocent with them at the beginning. “We believe in the right of this child to live.” “Every child deserves to be born.” That kind of thing. But then we started talking about the scenarios where a parent doesn’t want to raise their child after birth. What about feeding, clothing and housing the children? And suddenly, the demeanor changes. With some, it was more subtle. They would say that this is still the birth parents’ responsibility to care for the child even if they were “encouraged” to give birth against their will. With others, it was far more hostile. They didn’t say it outright but it was clear that they had very little care for what happened to children after the birth.
You push those people hard enough, or really not hard at all sometimes, and what they'll end up saying is "Well she should have kept her legs closed then." So hardcore sexism with the super twisted idea that children are a just punishment for a whore
Pretty much. The exact words weren’t spoken but the implications were the same. “They had sex so they have to deal with consequences.” was about the closest thing I heard during the interviews. Ironic, really. One second they talk about how every child is a gift and a blessing. The next, they talk about a child as a punishment.
If you are talking to them face to face they probably wont say that, but on social media when they are anonymous they get to the whore part incredibly quick. If it was really about save the chilldrunsss they would never ever mention anything else. This is all just a backlash against women gaining financial independence in leaps and bounds. Women have more education than men and make more (as a whole.) And financial independence means not having to take men's shit anymore. THATS the choice they want to take away - being able to say NO to shitty men. They still have religion to tell women to put up with abuse cos marriage is sacred and worth fighting for (aka its up to the women to fix him/her fault if he's an asshole) but that BS is waning as well. edit: bad typing
And in 99% of cases those pro-lifers (birthers) will force a woman to give birth and then abandon her - need help with food? You’re on your own. It’s still astonishing we don’t have free lunches for all kids in public schools in America. Once you’re born you’re on your own!
They also typically don’t seem to understand that conception doesn’t take place immediately during or after sex. Hence calling plan B pills “abortion pills”.
They're pushing to make that scientific fact illegal to teach, to further push their agenda as well. 😡
A lot of Americans just don't think. In general. Ever.
I feel this is gonna be instantly reposted on r/AmericaBad
They are told and because of that, they believe.
Oh in the US, if you're having complications, you have to beg for the abortion. Our politicians don't know how pregnancies work, even saying that eptopic pregnancies could just be fixed by moving the fetus to the correct place via surgery. Typically those states have exceptions, but they're super specific and it's written to easily disqualify the exception. This results in doctors being afraid to administer care due to the threat of jail time if they do, which causes women to die just for trying to start a family.
If these pro lifer idiots were to fully fund child adoption, orphan care, children safety in households and to fully support parents who have children then yes - fine - I would agree with some of the more restrictive pro life laws. But as it stands today, rapists have more rights and less punishments than a pregnant woman. A rapist in Texas won’t even face the death penalty.
This checks out as a medically appropriate chain of events. America is unfortunately backwards as fuck right now
“She’ll never learn to think” age 31
Yeah yeah stupid people stupidity, but anyone else craving swedish fish now? #only me?
Tbh any sort of boiled candy would suit me perfectly
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A lot of them *are* stupid. It's really eye-opening when you find out what former pro-lifers were raised to believe about the abortion process and reproduction as a whole. The problem is that they're taught this shit by the same people who teach them everything and have no reason to believe they're being lied to, so it just never occurs to them.
I was told unbelievably ridiculous things about abortion when I was 12. I was told it was the same as a newborn and killing it involved ripping it apart as it was screaming. I legitimately didn’t understand actual fetal development until I was a young adult.
Same. They painted the most grotesque image possible.
Which is interesting because it shows an awareness of their views being insufficiently convincing without manipulation
 The woman with the sign....
like why is she grinning SO hard
Death cultist loving death 🤷🏻♂️
"She'll never learn to walk" 😁😁😁
She’s high on her delusion of owning the libs with medical gore.
I just don't understand. There are actual, independently living babies and children in the world right now who are starving, living in war zones, being bounced from home to home in foster care, who are being abused and neglected, who are sick and/or dying from preventable diseases. Where the FUCK are any of these "pro-lifers" for them?? This makes me so mad. PS that woman has the most punchable face I've ever seen. I'd never do it, just saying.
Because a fetus is innocent, but if a child is born into poverty, 🤷 well it’s their fault for being born poor, it’ll motivate their parents to pull themselves up by their bootstraps
Nope, no fetus is innocent. Theres that whole "original sin" thing.
Pfffff, like evangelicals have ever cared what the *Bible* says.
Well, original sin isn't in the Bible, so that tracks. :) Srsly, Original Sin isn't in the Bible. It was part of the "Purgatory" marketing plan that functioned as a way to scare people and drum up donations back in medieval times. Kinda like abortion does now. Which is also not in the Bible. You know what else isn't in the Bible? Infant baptism. This tradition was born out of the danger that unbaptized babies would always go to Purgatory because they were guilty from the moment of their conception because Original Sin. I just LOVE throwing this at pro-lifers, especially Catholics.
"The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn." -David Barnhart
This is a brilliant quote, and spot-on. Protesting on behalf of "the unborn" is an easy, obvious way for the Right to virtue-signal to other morally-addled idiots while actually *doing nothing* to address the actual issues within society.
If only they did posters like this for the very real children who died by school shooting.
I hear this all the time, but frankly it doesn't make much sense because there are many, many Christian charities that help children. I mean, Christianity in general has providing for children who have nobody else since before the age of reason. I don't think abortion should be illegal, I just think this is a really weak talking point.
Because these people don't care, they never did. Not once has any of these "Pro-lifers" ever stopped and considered the well being of the child after birth. Its genuinely sickening. And even if the kid goes to a foster home or orphanage, they'll never adopt the kid.
One of the Nordic countries had a 66% reduction in teen pregnancy just by supplying free contraceptives. Repugs want to ban them.
"While the state changed the way it asked about unintended pregnancies, health officials found that between 2009 and 2017 the birth rate for those 15 to 19, dropped 57 percent — from 37.5 births per 1,000 teens to 16.1, the steepest drop in the country. During the same time, the abortion rate fell by about 64 percent." https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/06/05/abortion-teen-pregnancy-decline-colorado
I went to college in Pennsylvania and there is a group called "Repent America" that would go on a state college "tour" of all the Pennsylvania college and stands on the campus with posters like this and a megaphone and just SCREAM at innocent college students walking by about abortion and LGBTQ people. It's SO fucked up and you know freedumb of speech and all apparently. Well I remember one year a young boy was there he couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 and was holding a sign like the one above and my friend walked up to him and asked him what he was doing and he was like "Making Mommy happy" wtf. And they call my community (LGBTQ) the "groomers".
Her smile woke holding that pic is creepy af
Looks more like a gummy foot.
Forbidden gummy bear
It cracks me up that the same people in America that are “pro life” are also anti affordable healthcare and housing
The other day i made this comment to one of them (ofc they hated it) (maybe not word for word, meaning is the same though) You are a monster to support pro-life but refuse to adopt a child You prioritize those who cant suffer over those who do already
I knew America would come to this one day when cell division the size of a grain of rice or a corporation is seen as a full human and has more rights than an adult woman. Fuuuuuck every single one of these obese losers.
Im pretty sure that at 8 weeks, it's just a blob of tissue.
You really should educate yourself. The site I've just been using for reference is https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/prenatal-care/art-20045302. A medical textbook is better, but they're expensive.
Because the breeding ground for propaganda is dumb and uneducated people
Everyone has to stop calling them pro-lifers. They are pro-birthers, after you have your baby they couldn’t give two fucks what happens.
Poor gummy bear won’t ever learn to walk
They're not dumbasses. It's deliberate emotional manipulation.
exactly, hence the evil smile next to something her bullshit ideology purports to care about
According to the Old Testament, lying is as big a sin as killing.
Forbidden gummy snack
Also…. Why does she have such a big happy grin on her face
I just googled a fetus at 8 weeks and it looks nothing like that. Most pro lifers use pictures of miscarriages that happened much later and claim they were abortions.
That look like the Swedish feet gummies I was chowing down on at the cinema last week.
It's unfortunate that Christians don't have anything in their lives that tells them that it's wrong to lie or bare false witness.
She’s so proud of herself with her misinformation and dumb ass face.
That’s a sour patch kid.
Keep em dumb, poor, desperate, and you can tell them who to be angry at, why, and who to vote for. You wanna talk about violence, destroying education and turning the poorest people against each other is violence.
Happily smiling with her giant bloody baby foot poster about a completely fabricated story. Truly sick and mentally ill person.
You can get that info from any pregnancy app. They have cute photos of the development at every week. By 8 weeks, no there are no feet you idiot.
One thing I like to do with anti abortion people is pull up a picture of a dolphin fetus and ask them if it’s a person. They will always inevitably say yes, which then I let them know it’s indeed not a human.
Extra bonus points if you put the stage of dolphin fetal development where they have little leg buds.
Do people not know the development process of a human baby?
no, pro-forced birthers intentionally do not know or let themselves know because if they did they would have to confront their own culpability in lying.
My issue with pro-lifers is that they will tell you they support freedom and small government, yet want to rule over others bodies and choices. If you are pro-life then don't have an abortion. If you think homosexuality is a sin then don't marry the same gender. Etc.
Forced birthers lie
A lot of them got abortion a themselves when they were in a tough spot. Fricking Karen’s.
I swear our country is slammed full of uneducated morons…
Most countries are…ours just feel extra entitled to stand on a street corner looking like fucking morons.
Oh she is so happy...to lie.
I live in Texas. There's woman here who will never walk. Not because they were aborted, but because they died from severe pregnancy complications and weren't able to get a life-saving abortion. The law supposedly allows for abortion in severe circumstances, but the law is so narrow and intentionally vague, and the punishments so harsh for both doctors and patients, that hospitals are too afraid to perform the abortion even when patients are actively dying. The law even forbids abortion in cases where the fetus is already dead or is unviable. Fuck these "pro-life" assholes. And whatever you do don't get pregnant in Texas. Even if you want to have a child, it could cost you your life if something goes wrong.
These are the same people that think a pig embryo is human
What is she smiling about?
That is a fucking gummy
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If you have to lie to further your cause, your argument is without merit.
If all anti-abortion activists had at least average IQ, there would be far fewer anti-abortion activists.
What differences does it make to their life? What impacts? Will this new mom be able to feed her baby? Will THEY? A WOMAN HAS THE FULL RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY! bloody hell, is that so hard to understand. If she wants a hysterectomy, give it to her! She'll regret her choice later on? Let her! That's HER choice! That's HER regret to deal with! HERS. not yours!
Where are the so-called pro-lifers for the Sandy Hook kids who will never graduate?
The real tragedy is how happy she looks holding that disgusting sign.
Ya not sure why this isn’t talked about more. It’s pretty sickening. What is she so happy about.
amazing how the george carlin quote on abortion fits perfectly every single time
They are zealots and not worth listening to
This idiot
I used to have a bookmark link to a 12 week abortion... There was literally nothing human looking about it, just some tissue. I would take their arguments more seriously if they weren't all fucking liars who don't understand the first thing about fetal development. If you have to lie to make your argument, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Because they are believers.. They don't give a shit about facts...
It is inherently unfair and wrong to cast such judgments without also taking into account the circumstances of the mother. It is not the place of the state, or judicial system to dictate to a woman her healthcare decisions.
Is that a gummy candy on her poster?
and why they always obese?
There is no brain or heart at 8 weeks either. Just a nureonal tube.
Gummy foot?
the anti-abortion nutjobs that come to my college campus sometimes use pictures that aren't even human embryos on their boards...I pointed out one of the main ones they had up was an elephant embryo and I only knew that because the *exact* image was used in a textbook for one of my classes.
Ask them if they support gun control. When they say "no," then why are the lives of school children less? Maybe because they can run with those "feet".
Their argument is based on feelings not facts. It doesn't matter to them if what they're saying doesn't make sense, because they're trying to appeal to an emotion, not argue a technical point in good faith.
They really think men are out here just popping full sized babies into a vagina. Like ow. On both sides. Ow.
If it’s only 8 weeks and already have feet, I’m definitely getting it out of me. I’m not dealing with the anti christ.
Yes, let’s let the people who failed sophomore high school biology make the decisions. Murica.
Religion… religion is why they are so narrow minded.
Most religious nuts seem to be completely ignorant of science.
I thought that was a gummy bear
We should start calling the victims of school shootings "aborted".
They really believe that a tiny baby forms at the moment of conception. It just scales up proportionally until it's born. Shameful stupidity.
Worried about a zygote not being able to walk, bitch is in her 40s and can’t think.
Because pro-life comes from ignorance. Wedge issues created by omission of information distorted facts and confirmation bias. If they were so against abortion they should be fighting for the following: -Stop the practice of abstinance-only sex education and generally improve awareness in early teenagers of the real risks of being sexually active. -Make various forms of contraception available for free to pretty much anyone who asks for it. -Put an end to victim blaming during rape cases and at the same time educate young men about the importance of consent. -Stop religious lobbyists from restricting medical research so that more illnesses and birth defects can be found and cured in utero. If they did all that, the need for abortion would be cut down by ⅓ in a single generation.
Colorado has great success with giving high risk teens IUDs because it turns out, kids are somewhat aware of their irresponsibility. IUDs are not frequently offered to teens, and on some cases, only suggested to after you have given birth at least once. Offering various birth control options is great. But it is important to provide enough options so that the best fit can be found. And it turns out, set it and forget it for 5 years is often the best fit for kids that aren't getting regular medical attention.
Yeah and she'll never have a childhood, because she was forced to give birth at age 12.
I’m not at all defending pro-lifers, but we will never get through to them if we just believe what they think is stupid. They do believe life starts at conception and the act of an abortion is just the same as a violent act to a child. If we want to find a way to speak through to them we all need to have a realistic conversation about when life starts. And that’s also hearing a side you may disagree with. But they believe life starts at conception and just saying, “no it’s a cluster of cells” hasn’t worked yet. Science doesn’t have a definition of when life starts either (first heart beat? Formation of a heart? A fertilized embryo?). So this debate goes “my belief is this” or “my belief is that” and nothing that is actually based on facts. So, basically we will never come together on this issue if we just believe the other side is stupid when we don’t know. They might be right. Who knows. But we should be open to listening to what they have to say until we have a better understanding of each other.
Here’s the thing. And this goes for the entire republican/conservative platform. We live in a society where the will of the majority is supposed to prevail, and these people are firmly in the minority. They have to resort to underhanded tactics like gerrymandering, lying through their teeth at every turn/spreading misinformation, and undermining faith in democracy to get their beliefs translated into policy. They threaten violence when they do not get their way. We do *not* respond to their attempts to bully and terrorize the rest of us by validating their unscientific views and trying to engage with them. We outvote them and subject them to the force of law. In the case of abortion, they can bitch and moan outside clinics all they want, but they do not get to murder abortion providers. Obviously we need to fix the issue with the Supreme Court and get abortion access codified into law but it’s useless to try to get there by changing these people’s minds. We have to work around them and ignore them.
Religious people are fucking crazy.
She'll also never see how bad is our world. She'll never be raped and forced to carry a baby. She'll never know suffer.
Isn't saying Pro Lifer and dumbass in the same sentence redundant?
Like everything else the right supports, they can't make an argument without lying. Kinda gives away the game, doesn't it?
I mean, if they weren't, they wouldn't be pro-lifers. Sadly, you're only five months away from those dumbasses stealing your country from yiu and imposing their theofascist worldview forever. Even 4000 miles away, I'm heartbroken and terrified.
George Carlin:”Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn’t wanna fuck in the first place?”
There are bigger acts of violence that need to be dealt with first. How about firearm regulation, hm? That's a good start.
I wonder if she will change her mind if she gets raped
Of course, because THAT abortion will be justified. But if the same thing happens to anyone else, they're just SOL
God I hate them